How to teach a horse that fidgets in harness to stand still.
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- čas přidán 10. 10. 2013
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Teaching a 5yo New Forest gelding that fidgets in harness to stand still when entering the yard. Although it is raining and he is fidgeting, wanting to get back into the stable, we need him to listen to the driver and do as he is told regardless of other distractions. It is vital that he does this because if he won't listen and stand still now (when he's in an enclosed yard) he could do this when out on the roads, which could lead to a carriage driving accident.
Some horses start rearing when asked to stand still, or buck or plunge forwards; in our opinion it is important that they stand still when asked wherever you are. If they won't stand still in the yard prior to moving off, you can't expect them to stand still out on the roads at a junction. Not standing still can be a really dangerous situation for both horse, driver and anybody else involved, for example grooms, car drivers etc. We don't believe in asking a groom to stand by his head to prevent him moving; the horse should be listening to and obeying the driver. If a horse is rearing up or plunging forwards, this could also put the groom's life at risk.
We often have people email us asking for advice because their horse won't stand still in harness; in some cases, rearing up and knocking over the groom who is standing in front of them trying to hold on. Here we show Foggy being asked to stand still with Sarah on the reins. At the end of the film, we show him entering the yard the next day; he puts up a lot less resistance to standing still.
Horse Drawn Promotions - Breaking horses to harness.
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Barry, this is the most instructive film of yours that I've seen. To actually see a horse misbehaving and how you respond to it is EXTREMELY instructive and interesting and helpful.
love this - demonstrates that training is NOT for the lazy, and NOT for those who cannot read the animal... So much kinder to the animal to spend a day in the rain, even a week in the rain! to learn what is acceptable!! an animal that is not safe to be around, that is not outwardly seen as safe wont live a kind life, and likely wont live long. This is the BEST way to ensure that animal has the best opportunity to have a good life..... thorough training. Now when I say outwardly seen as safe, I mean, even the best trained horse is still a horse. Things will happen, but I do believe that your discipline, and exposure to likely elements, sounds, sights, events does prepare an animal to handle situations as best possible. I love your new videos, but all of them teach greatly important lessons - for those humans willing to listen.
Such wise words!
When i break a horse to saddle, i long rein every where before getting on. One of the hardest things for a youngster is patience and standing still. SUCH an important lesson to instill from the very beginning.
An old horseman said these wise words to me about 20 years ago...
"You can't be in a rush or hurry. Much of the early lessons are just walking and halting and standing around. They are not ready to get on, until i can ask them to halt in long reins - anywhere - and get my smokes out, roll one... and smoke it, while they rest a hind leg".
Such wisdom.
I use it all the time!!
I dont smoke... and sometimes *I* am the impatient one, wishing i could just get going lol.
I make myself wait while they fidget.
But all the horses that i break in have a calmness and patience about them in the end. Some take a lot longer than others to master patience. It is a gradual process.
But the end result is the same 🐴
I love this video, this pony, this channel, this man. Such a perfect philosophy. Apply it to dogs and kids! Surround yourself with respectful children and pets. Seriously. It takes patience but the rest of your lives will be all the better.
Excellent. As our trainer told us, STAND is the most important gait and the primary virtue of the well-trained carriage horse. The result of the training is not obvious to the casual observer because the horse appears to be simply doing nothing. Inside the horse's mind those tiny mental gears are presumably working constantly: "Must not move. Must not move."
Antoine de Pluvinel said, hundreds of years ago, "I work primarily with the mind of the horse." I do believe that he was right.
I so agree.....standing is fundamental in every situation. Really good lesson.
So correct I. Your thinking on training. Set the horse up for success gives an owner a lot more enjoyment as well as the safety of the horse and owner
Discipline through patience and persistence!
Good reminder. I have a youngster who needs this kind practice.
I actually found this one of the most interesting videos.
Thanks for this particular video. I enjoy them all, but this one really opens my eyes to the patience required, and done even at the discomfort of the humans. Bravo !
I was not bored at all. Essential training. Fascinating.
always been a pet peeve of mine, horses that were never taught to stand still. Restarting an off track STB now that raced 30 times and only won once and never heard of such a notion of standing still anywhere but at the crosstie. People are always so worried about 'forward' they forget that at some point you are going to have to stop.
This was a very informative video, my mare does the same thing, so we have paused the training at the walk and halt while ground driving until she respects the STAND. I also love how applicable this is to all levels of basic horse training for either driving or riding work. Thank you Barry for continuing to share your knowledge!
Foggy tap dancing in the rain! He is a fab character! Thanks for the vid!
Its good to get other peoples ways u can never learn enough about a horse!
Bless you for this video. I needed to hear this. I need to remember this so I apply it to my pony who is mostly good, even for a child, but I need to work with him more like this to keep him good and to eventually be able to train him to drive.
Brakes aren't essential but they can help. They won't stop a horse from moving (we teach horses to push into a collar to move a vehicle+when it gets heavier such as more passengers, to push even harder which can mean they use a lot more strength to push against the brake as they think they have to move a very heavy vehicle. But they can help to stop the carriage affecting them if they are fidgeting so they don't get conflicting messages from the carriage weight on breeching/collar.
this is training.that realy hit home with me.thank you .i can also clearly see how a true professional like yourselves have the knowledge to make the right desicion as to the right timing of this exercise.something that someone like me just would not be confident about and may end up doing more harm than good.thanks for sharing your videos.
Can't stop watching your videos, thank you so much for sharing your experience and wisdom!
Omg I love Barry so much.
Barry , You Are A Master Of Your Trade. :) Thank's Alot :)
From
Melbourne Australia
He reminds me of a 12 year old male human, when you ask them to stand. Good video
He is indeed ''teen pony''....My teenage son went through a ''bargy'' phase...and I really had to follow through on 'discipline'...it was not easy...but ponies and teenagers do like firm boundaries. Son is a man now, and he improved a lot after I ''toughened up'' and got stricter :)
I've always enjoyed your vids because of the kindness mixed equally with common sense and knowledge. A lot of people who train their own horses don't realize that standing has to be part of the training. Maybe they are so impatient themselves to get moving down the road, and training vids and books rarely mention training to stand, which in my opinion is the most important place to start. People see horses standing around in the field and think they shouldn't have to train for something that comes so naturally. And, too many people want to be their horse's friend rather than the leader. Thanks for the vids!
This is so great to show this process. I had a filly that I had no idea how to fix this issue she started off with ground driving. She would do this ground driving and one time leapt backward and fired both hind feet at me. She ended up flipping over with the trainer and later with me. Thanks so much for showing this important info on how to approach a fix.
Great video so much wisdom there pity more people don't have that much patience.
Excellent!
Thank you. I really enjoyed this and it is a great example of how minor issue can become major issues. I really enjoyed watching this. Just purchased a new team and learning myself. I have dealt with this issue with saddle horses for the exact reasons that were spoken of in this video. I very much enjoyed this and reminded me how important patience is for humans as well as the horse needing patience when asked to do something.
I loved watching this. Such a great informative video.
Good job 👍
I think this is the best video of yours I've seen so far. Why is it that when you have an awkward willful cuss that plays up right at the end of a good session, so you have to bore it into good behavior, it always seems to bucket down with rain? I find my helpers (when I can get any) always give up first, leaving me and the horse to out-stubborn each other like two drownded rats.
Wise words! Great training methods to get a safe horse! Thank you!
You do help us understand your clear solid approach to training thank you for your sharing
Time and patience are valuable things; especially since lack thereof can cause the poor horse to end up on someone's plate. People need to think about the horse, not constant kisses and cookies. A person with a temper and frustrations train horses to be the same. Hoping a problem will just go away only entrenches it. Great vid as usual.
Great work, as usual. You are an inspiration to all of us.
Very, very interesting and informative, as always. Thanks Barry.
Glad you don't give up. He has to be taught!
Hi Barry and Mel,my new pony,s exactly the same very responsive to the voice,nice mouth walks trots and canters wen asked,but ask him to stand and just like the lad on your video an absolute pain,so iam now trying more or less the same thing as yourselves,before I venture out on the roads with him,but how anyone can allow their horse to behave in that manner is unbelievable,and very dangerous,your video could not have been better timed thanks!
Top! The Best!👍
People don’t realize how dangerous it is when they misbehave and won’t stand or do anything they are asked to do. The sad thing, is it isn’t the pony’s fault, people do this by not having them properly started and maintained. Then when they end up hurting or killing someone, the pony ends up on a slaughter truck. Even a small pony running away with a cart even in a big field is dangerous and yes discipline is very important. I had a friend with a young filly she started with no experience on her (owner) or the filly’s part. I wanted her to take to trainer. Then she kept handfeeding and didn't think there was anything wrong from the time she was a yearling to give her treats. As she got worse and worse biting, snapping, pawing out and twisting around her - I begged her to take her somewhere to bring a stop to the mess or for her to take some action. I told her to stop the treats except in her bucket, to firmly reprimand any nasty seeking behavior and get her working hard to redirect her energy. She thought that was being mean. She just didn’t think it was that big of an issue - well until the day, she reared (which she had been doing but getting nastier and nastier) - she struck the owner in the head several times, ended up whirling when she fell down from the strikes and then kicked out trying to get away from her struggling. I wasn’t there, her younger brother was and relayed the story. And he was only 12, and up in the hay loft so he couldn’t do much except call for help and catch the filly in her stall. The young woman died from the brain injury after month in the hospital; the pony was put down by the family. All because someone though it was cute her begging for treats when little and not stopping the behavior before it ended up killing a young woman and a nice filly. Sadly, this is just one such situation I have personally seen and it breaks my heart. Barry is absolutely correct, they have to learn discipline from the first couple of days after birth. It’s simple things that grow to big and dangerous. What is cute at 75 pounds isn’t when they are big growthy yearlings at 600+lbs, and even worse as strapping 3 or 4 yr olds at 1000+ lbs or more depending on breed.
rosebudforglory - So sorry about your friend. We tend to say rather narsty words when people try to give treats to our horses, or if they tell their children to pet the horsey on his "nice, soft nose."
As for working hard, we had a feisty rescue pony, very forward, somewhat hard to control. We put her to work hauling bundles of brush up a hill through the woods. It was just what she needed.
Nothing is more frustrating then a horse that will not stand !
I think were all just to lazy to stick it out and get annoyed where as you guys get great results time after time because you never give up x
No, you are right. Standing still is like first grade stuff. That's the best way. Stop and wait till you're ready.
Truly a art
Much appreciated.
wonderful.....
all very true
Awesome video as always guys. Great to see, certainly not 'boring' as it's a challenge I am facing along with a newly developed fear of trucks after a nasty scare.
got great potential for a nice piaffe :D
Another great video. I find it hard to gage though, how long (when they have stood still), before you ask them to move off again?
Hi Beth; if you want to give us a ring this evening we will be happy to talk to you and discuss this in more detail (best times to catch us are 6-7pm).
Persistence; and, insistence on correct behavior. Takes patience, but it's more effective.
I am currently training a mini jenny (female donkey for those who don't know) to drive. Because a donkey's natural fear response is to first freeze and evaluate and then run, she requires a somewhat different approach than a horse would. Still, I have found your training videos to be invaluable! Thank you for sharing your experience!
If I may, where do you get your rubber bits from? My jenny does not respond well to the metal snaffle due to her incredibly shallow mouth. A soft rubber bit would be a big help! Also, could a wide nylon dog collar work like the neck collars you use? Thank you!
+Bethany Register Thanks for your comment; great to hear you enjoy watching our videos! The neck collars we use do go small enough to fit miniature ponies (you can buy them from agriculturalsupply.co/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1162 ) - although a dog collar could theoretically work if it was the same thickness, the collars we use have swivel rings on them and so I don't know whether the dog collars would be strong enough, or whether they would still be comfortable if you added a swivel to them when they are not designed to accommodate them. We also have our rubber bits specially made for us but you can buy rubber bits from suppliers like Abbey Saddlery. Wherever you buy them from just be sure to specify that you want flexible rubber not vulcanite rubber. Hope that helps!
Barry what would you recommend for a 5yr old mini horse mare that is wonderful under harness unless you ask her to stand? She'll prance, rear, leap, etc to get out of standing still. She nearly flipped herself the last time! I've used a snaffle bit on her previously but currently she drives bitless. She's perfect unless asked to stand! I'm at a loss with her! If needed I may be able to film her and put it up on youtube for you to see.
Perhaps go back a step and re-educate with long reins in hand, walking behind. No carriage.
Reduces the risk of rearing with a cart. Practice lots of waiting around doing nothing!!
See my post above.
It was wonderful advice i was given.
You have them all tacked up complete... except for the carriage (or in my case the rider). Once that stage is mastered then they have to master standing with a rider... or carriage.
Best of luck.
Welches fahrgebiss ist zu empfehlen?
yessssssss
What do you think of hobble training?
This horse has an ulcer, hard to stand and it is painful. Good training on his part sometimes there is more, even a chiropractior may help him.
Much more likely he is following the usual chain of events from gate to stall and feed, getting interupted caused the fidgets. He has to listen and wait instead of just keep on going. very important for him to learn, because it means he was not really paying attention to the driver and that is dangerous, because it can easily mean making a decision himself if spooked/something changed in the yard.
when he is fidgeting are you just countering the direction he's trying to go with the opposite rein? (if he's trying to go left counter with the right rein, if he's trying to go forward give halt command with reins, etc)
Valarie Bowlby Yes, its basically teaching him that if he stands still there is no pressure on the reins, but if he walks forwards (or steps sideways) without being asked to then he is asked to go "back" to where he was originally asked to stand, by receiving a reminder from the reins. It is vital however that the rein cues are released as soon as we get a response from him; many people keep hold of the reins with a tight contact with a horse that fidgets, to try and prevent it moving anywhere, but we want to teach him to stand on a loose rein (if we applied pressure on both reins when he was standing still, he would rein back, as that is his cue to do that). I am in the process of uploading another video showing me teaching a different horse that won't stand still; as its filmed from the carriage you can get a better idea of when and how I give the instructions with the reins. Once its uploaded I'll post the link here.
that would be great thank you! in this video is his reward for standing still a loose rein or is it his return to the barn where he wants to go? or both? if you were out of the yard say on the side of the road waiting for a car to pass what would be the reward for standing quietly?
i really appreciate your help i'm from the middle of nowhere in Kansas, USA and everyone around here "cowboy breaks" horses. meaning get the saddle and bridle on them as quick as you can however you can, then ride them til they quit bucking and call them 'broke'. nobody drives. :(
do you have a video of the groundwork you do when starting a horse to drive? i have a mini that was rushed through training and has holes in his groundwork.
Valarie Bowlby No we don't do videos about "how to" break a horse, because they are all different; without seeing and working with one, its impossible to make a decision as to what would be the best way to train it. We don't believe in an "A-Z" method either, as the best way to train one horse may be entirely unsuitable for training another one. Also, horses may come to us with different starting points, for example some may need to be taught how to pick up their feet before starting any harness training, whereas others may have already been lunged/mouthed and may need that undoing before moving on to the rest of the training, so it would be impossible to make a video about the initial training that would apply to every horse.
In terms of rewards I think its important to remember that some things should be considered standard behaviour and not need a "reward" as such - for example, you don't say "good boy" and give your horse a polo every time he picks one foot up, or every time you put a rug on - its considered something he just does, because he is has been trained to do so and is happy to oblige. If he moved, or pulled his foot away, you wouldn't "punish" him, but just say "stand still" or similar, then carry on. In the same way, we prefer to save a "reward" (good boy or a scratch on the withers, not food) for when the horse has done something spectacular - for instance, we don't reward the horse for passing a car (as we expect him to do this happily), so we wouldn't say "good boy" if he went past a lorry either as we don't want the horse to consider a lorry as being a major issue, but to think of it like a car, i.e. just another thing to go past. However if a lorry went past and suddenly something fell off it and the horse had to stop suddenly or go around it, i.e. something totally unexpected, a very loud noise or similar, then we would say "good boy". In Foggy's case, the "reward" is the loose rein, i.e. doing as the driver has said means he can stand still quietly; otherwise, he keeps getting asked the instruction. Even if his reward is going inside and finishing the drive, its important for him to learn that this doesn't always happen straight away, and that he still needs to listen to the driver, regardless of whether he's at the start of a drive or the end of one.
If we were waiting for a car to pass, the same thing applies - the horse should stand quietly anyway and not need a "reward" for doing so - it should be normal behaviour for him to stand still, just like its normal behaviour for him to walk down the road (he doesn't get a polo for every stride he takes, so why should he be bribed with food when standing still? The halt should not be seen as a big hurdle to overcome, but as something he does as calmly and happily as he does when walking). We wouldn't give him a titbit, but likewise we wouldn't "punish" him for not standing still, just repeat the instruction. Our preferred "reward" for any horse is always primarily the voice (which can be associated with a scratch in a favourite place when on the ground for example) rather than food.
I don't like giving food treats it just seems to create more problems. Do you think the horse needs some sort of reward during the training phase of something that horse finds particularly difficult? Or is release of pressure enough?
Valarie Bowlby Depends on the horse and his temperament/reason for why he finds it difficult. Release of pressure is enough for some horses, others may need a bit more encouragement. Some need a scratch on the neck or a pat (we use a stick with a soft ball on the end so we can give them a stroke while we are actually out driving if they need "contact" from us), others are best rewarded by not making an issue out of it (don't think of the thing as being "difficult" and requiring a reward, but as asking the horse to do something he normally does).
Its also important to remember that the driver/handler's attitude and behaviour can directly influence the horse - if you are uptight/nervous/unsure about doing something, because you fear the horse's reaction, or are yourself nervous of doing that "thing", then the horse can become nervous too, and then it will become a "difficult" thing to do. Being confident and calm however can mean that a horse will happily do something he usually finds "difficult", simply because he trusts the handler.
excellent videos. need a vehicle with BRAKES! and lots of patience.
if this horse really wanted to he could just get hold of the bit and go so why don't he, is it because he has had something a lot stronger in his mouth previously? X
You can't hear the words due to the noise. It is hard to understand what he is saying.
You can turn on subtitles.
Good idea! Thanks.
Basically if he was a person, he'd be a naughty teenager..he wants to do what HE wants to do..he wants his grub, NOW. But like the naughty teenager, he respects discipline! [not punishment..discipline.
it is but he has brakes on his carriage to hold pony
Webishstew BarryHook2? Gee Fuct Stet, duma mittley!