What Is THE TOUGHEST KNIFE STEEL? Testing knife steel.
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- čas přidán 25. 04. 2019
- What is the toughest knife steel for the ultimate knife? Today was test some super tough knife making steel, S7 and 1084.
This is not a super scientific test, but I think it goest to show just how tough these steels are.
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Heat treatment for s7:
Hardening Crucible Recommended
Preheat: 1350/1400F, equalize.
High Heat: 1725/1750F, hold 30/45 minutes at temperature.
I heated to 1725F wrapped in foil and held for 40 minutes.
Quench: Air, positive pressure vacuum, interrupted oil to 150F. Sections over about 3" thick may require oil quenching to attain full hardness.
I quenched in air.
Temper: 350/1000F, hold one hour per inch of thickness (two hours minimum), air cool to room temperature. Double tempering is recommended.
I tempered at 400 for 2, two hour cycles.
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Heat treatment for 1084
Normalized 1600f / 1425F / 1200F
cool in still air
Heated to 1475 hold 5 minutes quench in parks 50
Temper at 440F 2x2hr
About⬇️
Hi, Im Alex, im a knife maker and CZcamsr, based out of southern Mars and my youtube channel is Outdoors55. This channel started as an outdoor backpacking channel, but quickly grew into a knife/ knife making channel. Everything I do on my channel is family friendly. I primarily focus on knife / knife making videos but occasionally throw in something different. Thank you for watching!😀
#knifemaking #knife #knifemaker #outdoors55
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FULL DISCLOSURE - Jak na to + styl
Do you think the mora basic would hold up to the same abuse? Or does it even matter 🤷♂️
You should test it
No way.
Try it. I love Morakniv, but i have my doubts. Maybe the Garberg.
I think Pete (of Cedric and Aida) broke one.
It would be a good reference point!
I always say this, but I'll say it again. Your production is just top tier man. Definitely S class. SSGSS. Ultra instinct editing.
Thanks man! Always appreciate you stopping by👊
Hey, you're that feller with the goofy accent. Hey honey get in here. Its that boy from New Zealand!
I agree
@@targuscincohe's from Australia, not New Zealand 😂
I think we learned we should have more protective gear on when testing knife destruction!!! 😂😂😂
🤫 youtube will ban me if they know this is dangerous..im undercover...
The whole point was a knife he wanted folks. 1) lightweight,2) durable, 3) full tang tough that could hold an good edge.
I don’t think there is a knife on the market that could handle the abuse I just witnessed! I was astounded! First, who would treat a knife like this?😂😂
Your test was a success and I’ll be the first in line to order one of those knives in what ever steel you choose to make them out of.
Awesome job and you get a star for courage on this...😂😂
Absolutely stunned by your vid. Last year I destroyed a blade made by me in 2006 from 1045 by batoning and the tang was only 4,5 mm width. I always think how our ancestors had to use their blades in daily use and always come to the conclusion there is always a way to breake your knive missusing it. It is a knive not a tank or an axe and also it is always incredible what the steel is capable of. Thanks for your effort showing that ability to us.
Try gun bluing (hot blue) on the S 7.
Looks cool, and stops rust.
It wouldn't hold up very well when splitting through all that wood, however, I have recently seen some pretty crazy wear resistance testing on specific a DLC coating done by Razor Edge Knives over at BladeForums. He seems to have that process down. Looks beautiful on an mirror polish just like hot blueing does.
@@lsubslimed I am not familiar with the product, but you are likely correct about standard bluing. It holds up pretty well, but nothing can hold up to splitting dirty wood... any amount of fine quartz based sand or dust, and.... well, quartz is pretty hard compared to steel of any kind.
The only true cure for rust on tools in contact with abrasives is stainless steel, even with its other issues.
Exactly the video I was looking for. It makes me feel even better about the 1084 I have. Thank you.
When you cut out the handle opening you may want to put a generous radius/chamfer on the edges of the opening, because that will be the #1 failure area (stress risers). AFAICT from video, that wasn't done. Indeed the failure in both cases was in the cut out handle area. Sharp corners will always lead to failure. (From what I've seen, most manufacturers "cheap out" on anything hidden by handle scales and don't properly radius their cut-out edges. Saves them a few bucks in costs...)
s7 is used on high end ar15 bolt carrier groups. super cool to see it in action in a different application.
One thing that the test showed me was that you are one he'll of a knife maker, I enjoy all of your videos and I'm learning a good bit to improve my skills.Thank You Jake Bissel.
Fascinating stuff. Keep the vids coming. Best of luck in your quest.
Another great video! I was really surprised by the 1084!
I'd be interested seeing how the tool steels like O-1, A-2, and L-6 preform. I understand L6 is considered to be really good survival knife steel. I've never used it to know.
Loving this new series, keep up the good work!!
Very interesting stuff Alex. Thanks for sharing this.
Digging this series mate.... good work!
im absolutely loving this series. Id love to buy a knife when its done!
Nice job dude. That was some good dedication right there
You always upload right when I'm deciding if I'll go to sleep or .. oh look, new outdoors55 video!
What an achievment i dont know much about knives or steel but after your last video on this im super impressed
WOW! Fantastic video and kind of shows you that some of the older steels are more than "super" enough than most real world uses. Great video!
I was a Tool and Die maker and often wondered why didn't make Knives Out of S7 shock resistant tool steel perfect👍👍
Hey, do you sell your work, I would love a blade in s7 with a full tang handle. Let me know if you could do that please?
Seth Rainser I don’t think he sells yet but he said he posts anything that is for sale on his instagram
Not the Blade Breaker 9000!! Every blade Smith’s worst nightmare! Haha good job as always, keep us updated on your quest to make the perfect knife.
Gough Custom did a durability test on a bunch of knife steel a few years ago. he came up with CPM3v as the winner... Search for the video, it's pretty sweet... From what I understand S7 & CPM3v are around the toughest, but CPM3v has better corrosion resistance(which some say S7 is horrible at)... Sweet video, take it easy...
Ive seen it👍 Thanks man! You as well👍👊
I'm blade-smithing vicariously through you and your giving me great pleasure threw your videos dude!😀 Keep it up and at least Show some type of protective body and eye "Armor" please, your one of my GOAT people and channels?
Wibble bobble. That’s it you are my hero knife maker beater upper with words like wibble bobble. I’m super impressed and as always very entertained!!!!
Love all your videos
Solid Test!!! Thanxs!!!😎
Really can't wait to see the end product and final weight!!!
That is damn impressive Alex. Really nice job dude
Alex, I have really improved my sharpening skills watching you. Could you do a video sometime on sharpening a 6" fishing fillet blade?
Mako
Another great video! These kinds of video's are of great value for knife enthousiasts and makers, like myself. I mostly use O1 and 80CrV2 steel for my knives, so I'd love to see you try and destoy these two steels. Especially 80CrV2 is a very tough steel in my experience 😎
Do you have knives for sale? Can you direct me to where?
The sling shot channel did a great video on cheap vs expensive blades and steel types. In my experience it's almost always side load that oes the damage.
Well explained!
Love to watch your video on 3v. Looking forward to your videos!
Thanks my friend for taking the time to watch 👍👊
Excellent Review!
I really do love your vids 🍻
Hi. When both blades broke i noticed the bolts were not tight and were moving. If they were tight would the metal still have broken? Good health and stay safe.
I think it's more the cutout leaving little metal. It happens when you take the skeletonization to the max. The chain is only as strong as the weakest link, etc. I've seen a video of the Becker BK2 break inside the handle and also a Cudeman 'bushcraft' knife. In the old days they used to taper the steel in the handle to make it more lightweight and balanced.
I agree, the mounting was a bit so so and the amount of edge material around of the drilled holes plus no chamfered finish.
@@captainchaos3053 😭
@@macmccartney5760 😛
this sounds legit. I think if the front edge at 1/8" or so then the tang with it being thicker should have held up quite a bit if secured properly for sure.
great test best have seen
The survival knives I have are made from 1095 steel and they work fine for me and have not broken yet. I have other knives with weaker steel and they are just fine, but they have not been tested to see if they would break. They do not have a full tang though and is just plain hunting knives and not advertised as survival knives.
I wish more people tested like this!!! The only think i would like to add is to get more hp on the blade a much heavier baton goes a long way. I prefer a hunk of wood at least 5" in diameter at least 12" in length at full width with a nice handle. Keep up the hard work!
Great video!
From Europe I appreciated a lot the weight conversions in grams on the previous video, I missed it a bit on this one, but still I really like your videos, keep it up!
Sorry forgot to do the conversions in this video. Thanks my friend 👊
@@OUTDOORS55 Don't worry, it's not a big problem!
Great video. I have been working with 1080 and 1075 steel and wondered how strong it is.
Tough stuff cool test thanks for showing us the blade destructor 9000
Good one! Been thinking for a long tima on making myself a good battoning knife, but my idea is to make it from Böler K390 steel, IF i can find it anywhere near where i live
Well that interesting amazing it just shows some steel that's unbreakable but with type of punishment wow really enjoyed this video amazing as usual Paul 😄😄
I have an okc bushcraft field knife in thin 5160 I would like to see you test thanks for your vids awesome work
I Commented before watching soo edit. Holy crap good stuff right there.
Okay you got me sold I am Absolutely brutal on knives
My best knives don't last me but about a month maybe two at the most.
I HUNT,
FISH,
WORK carpentry,
SCRAP METAL 4fun,
CUT MASKING TAPE
For custom painting cars.
If this knife is even close two doing the things you've done on this video
I WANT/NEED ONE.
WHAT IS IT AND WHERE CAN I GET IT.!!
Great video, this was entertaining and then some ;)
Very good destruction test. The Destructor 9000 is impressive. Don't go with a thinner stock, but lesson learned: don't hollow out the tang.
No blde brkage hndles brk
This chnnl is awesome !! Appreciate u sharing this content 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
He really is on the quest to learn as much as he can about knives and steel he is getting good results.
Outstanding!!!! I have been searching for exactly the same type of product. I have been carrying the Mora myself but share the same concerns with the handle. I would love to see you do this in an S30V or S35VN (my favorite steels). Not sure how they would baton though. Even so I would pay for an orange G10 version with 1084. You may have hit a market niche here.
I may venture into stainless at some point but i dont have the capability for cryogenic treating right now. Yeah it seems some totally get where this project is coming from, and some definitely dont😂 Thanks for watching my friend 👍👊
I would love to see a update on the knife you ended up using to see how well it has done
It seems to me that we also learned that that type of full-length hollow tang is susceptible to breaking at the point where it enters the handle. Maybe it would be different embedded in the scales with epoxy filling that vast hollow space.
SO impressed with both steels. Now I have to make me a 1084 knife! What was your outro music?
Nice tests, I'm watching closely.
Discovery network reported the samurai blade . Not common to see any knife builders trying forged blades , go for it Alex 👍
🤔...👍👊
Loved this video, and no space scenes aha
this guy really love knives! beat it boy!
Great video! Thanks for the comparison. I love how you didn't hold back at all.
That was a LOT of leverage on your blades using the ultra long testing “handle”. Impressive.
You have a talent for destruction. I can watch it all day. Nice job on those blades. They survived some serious stuff. S7 looks great.
Don't know if this would be of any interest to you, but there was a fella on the Australian Blacksmith, Bladesmith facebook page who posted some tests he had done on a few steels yesterday. He tested RWL34, 12C27 and NitroV. All variants of stainless steel. He wanted to try and "deep freeze" these steels after heat treating them to find the differing results of hardness between them. The term "deep freezing" means just putting these steels into your basic freezer which is usually set at -18°C.
The was his process:
-Heat to austenitizing temperature.
-Quench between plates.
-Freeze.
-Temper.
He had a scrap piece of steel for each variant of steel for both deep freezing and normal heat treating. So there were 6 pieces he tested. He had each piece hardness tested professionally. I don't know if you're familiar with the hardness testing but, knife steel hardness is measured in Rockwell hardness HRC.
His results were as follows:
Cold tested steels:
- RWL34 = 62HRC
- 12C27 = 60HRC
- NitroV = 62HRC
Normal heat treating:
- RWL34 = 58HRC
- 12C27 = 58HRC
- NitroV = 56HRC
So essentially the "deep freeze" tested steels would technically have far better edge retention and durability than your normal heat treated blades; but would be more prone to shattering if they were dropped on something like concrete.
I think most steels would go up the HRC scale if you deep freeze them. Which is why they do it for stainless steels, because unlike carbon, and this is not true for all stainless steels, some shoot up the HRC scale with a basic heat treat, but a lot would not hit the 62+ range unless you deep freeze them after heat treat, they would be what you said that the guy did on his tests, around 58 or whatever but after they would shoot up to 63.
Carbon though dont seem to have any problems in reaching 64 with just a basic heat treat, most of them are crazy brittle and need temper right away, its just to get the stainless up a bit higher before they temper them down in both casses. Though from what I heard I dont think your garden variety home frezzer would not do, you would need at least -90 Fahrenheit and that for hours, or a day, and even that may not be cold enough, somewhere in the neighborhood of liquid nitrogen -300 or so degrees. It makes me want to try it, you know just stick some knifes I wont miss, in the freezer for a few days and break stuff, just to see what happens.
@@solairable Yes, it's all very interesting. I wasn't meaning to say it was any better, I just thought the information about deep freezing in general might be of interest to somebody. I wish I had the resources to test this stuff myself, it'd be pretty damn cool to test the steels breaking point using liquid nitrogen deep freezing 👌
I was just talking about Lynn Thompson and how even if he knows what he's talking about.... The way he presents his knowledge comes off as a cheap used car salesman. I don't believe or trust a word he says.
You sound like you know exactly what your talking about. I trust these videos. Great stuff.
Wow.., impressive !
...to say the least. 👍🏻
If you ever make a sheath, would you keep oil in it? I mean for the S7 tool steel... I'm sure hot bluing would help a lot to. Just wondering.
Any plan to do 1095 tests? This is also popular outdoor steel used in reputable brands.
Looking forward to seeing how 01 does in this kind of testing.
Kinu Grove yes Please do video of this steel
I’m a simple man. I see Outdoors55, I thumbs up. Great video as usual! You’re awesome and because of you I bought an angle grinder and made my first knife last weekend!
Thanks my friend! Sounds like you had fun👍👊
The funny thing is your cool handle you designed for testing created a ton of leverage at the bolted points. There would never be that kind of torque on a regular knife handle. Those blades are even tougher than that test shows in my opinion.
Yeah theres no way either would break if anyone was holding the handle. You would most likely break your hand first. I kniw i almost did, or it felt like it😂
Alex, will you please do a video comparing a hatchet's convex grind versus a concave grind? I know that the "proper" way to sharpen a hatchet is with a convex bevel. However, a lot of people use sharpening wheels which leave a concave bevel. I trust your insights and knowledge, so I'd like your thoughts on whether or not this matters and if so, to what degree.
Is that something you'd consider looking at?
Just me giving u my opinions but what if you did a grind on the blade like you would a calvary sabre. Or a fuller
Outstanding development going on here, I hope this leads to a product! Any plans?
Try a small fuller along the top ,I believe that would help to keep the knife from bending
Great video by the way
I've also seen your V3 video what are the RHC of all the different steels??
No love for 3v? Good realistic testing man!
I don’t know about the mora basic, I have the companion in SS and a pro S, both Sandvik 12c27 I think. For the price, like you said who cares but they’re pretty tough. I’m eager to see you test 3V, hopefully you’ll get cpm 3V. I have 3 Bark River Knives in it & they’re great.
Hey Alex, I think for future testing, rather than using wing nuts to secure the knife to the angle-iron, I would use a nylon-lock nut, or something that has more locking/clamping strength. The wing nuts are showing that they come loose during your testing, and the shock and offset forces at the two spots may be contributing to the breakage more than you realize. I realize this is by no means a scientific experiment, but given that Im sure you have these sorts of materials at your disposal (or easily obtained) you may want to consider it.
Just for clarification, was it the 1084 or the S7 that you said was VERY prone to rusting?
Thanks for yet another awesome vid! Love the info and edumacation!
BigHesh81 I believe Alex mentioned the S7 as very prone to rusting
Try aeb-l. Because it has a super fine grain structure, it can hold up to a lot of abuse.
The blade on the S7 steel did bend. You can see it at 7:36.
Edit: I see you addressed this at the end of the video, now that I've watched that far. Good job.
Awesome video brother. Now I know why your arm was sore😂. Those took some serious, out of this world, abuse. Looking forward to scales.
Lol it wasnt from this😂 I pulled something trying to pull a tree stump out of the ground. Yeah I thought for sure it would have broken. Thanks for watching my friend 👍👊
Jörg Sprave did some cool knife tests
Knives flying against each other
I know this is a few years late but here is my $0.02
A tough steel ... 8670 is one of the toughest steels on the market. I think the heat treatment known as the goldilocks treatment is 1500f soak for 10 minutes, quench in parks 50, and two temper cycles at 400f for 2 hours. The HRC is around 60 and it has a toughness around 17 ft-lb.
Depending on where you look, you can get 8670 at around 0.100 inches to 0.200 inches.
8670 is a low alloy, nickel alloy steel (Nickel in steel is known to make tough steels, but they are difficult to anneal), so it will rust.
How about using 5160? It's damn tough! ALSO, What are the rods or whatever you use to hold the knife upright in the treating/tempering oven called? Where can I get a jig or the materials to make one, from?
Very impressive . Toughness' = resistance to impact..
I like S7, 8670, 5160, A8mod, Z-tough and TSP1 steels a lot. I think if you make it true full tang plus tapered tang for balance, it might not break. It broke due the the stress riser of the large hole.
On my opinion it is L6 or L2. But the heat treat is pretty complicated. I do hot oil quench Bainite. But the S7 and v3 should kick ass too.
Loosening of the bolts caused a twisting side leverage force between the handle and the angle iron which would be far greater than the impact force of the blade strike. If you'd worked out a better gripping system (between plates) I think you'd still be hitting the S7 even now.
I think you should start selling those S-7's with a skeletonized handle and a Kydex sheath. Seems to me like an ideal EDC and trail knife?
Stoney
Would like to see the test on Z-tuff and calmax steel.
Hey :) have you thougth about an thinner bladestock but with for example an flat ( konvex grind would be better but due to weigth...) thats not going all the way up to the spine that way you could get more splitting power and support the tip better and prevent bending. It´s really just a thougth of me but I think the knife is already doing pretty good ;D crazy this S7... and keep up the good videos :)
greetings from germany ^^
rly want to see u do the same tests with the mora
You can put on a fake edge or a finger groove or choil along the spine you could also grind it into a drop point witch still works for all your needs
I made a ax head out of S7. Hard and never chipping. Why didn't you taper the tang down to save weight?
I only have one S7 blade, and it's a big chopper, but I've found it to be incredibly tough and has never had any signs of chipping or rolling. It holds an edge well, and is not difficult to strop/hone/sharpen. 3v is certainly more corrosion resistant, holds an edge better, but takes longer to bring the edge back using the same abrasives as used on the S7. I don't have a 3v blade comparable to the S7 as far as dimensions, but I think it's a more balanced steel as far as the knife trinity of abrasion resistance, strength, and toughness. I think it will come down to personal preference as to which qualities are more desirable, and how each quality is weighted in its importance by the individual. Either way, on a knife that size, it will be a great knife.
i would advise to get a 1084 ti or if realised yet 2084 or 2084 ti