The Perfect Budget Airplane Piper Tomahawk
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
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For those who are interested in flying, and can afford $20k - $30k to buy their own airplane, the Piper Tomahawk is a great option to start. This is one of my favorite trainer/personal aircraft. It has a similar look with the DA40 with the T-Tail. As far as training aircrafts, Tomahawks rarely ends up in the conversation. That's because of the stigma that surrounds it with the stall characteristics and difficulty to recover from a spin. Best antidote to this? don't stall any airplane you fly.
The Piper Tomahawk featured in this video is well kept 1979 model with new Garmin avionics. So it's fully loaded with IFR equipment.
Piper PA-38 Tomahawk Specs:
Capacity: 2 People
Engine: Lycoming 112 HP
Range: 500 Miles
Speed: 110 mph
Price: $20k - $30k
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I didn't read all the comments, so this may have already been addressed. The 125HP upgrade is not an O-320 engine. It's an STC modification of the stock Lycoming O-235 which involves a change of the prop, the cylinders, and then timing of the ignition (25° behind TDC as opposed to 20°). The changes all simply allow the engine to run safely at 2,800 RPM to achieve that increase in power, which actually does make a heck of a difference.
Other than that, FANTASTIC video highlighting one of the most underrated trainer/ commuter aircraft on the market!
Well said. I own one as my first aircraft, and I’ll keep it forever. I have a Cessna 172 that gets more use (and is also nowhere near stock), but the Piper is a far more fun aircraft to fly.
As an instructor in the the Tomahawk it worked fine after the stall strips were added to the front of wings.
I did most of my training in a Tomahawk. I practiced spins and never had any issues with recovery. Big doors. Lots of glass great visibility. Cheap operating cost. Fun to fly!!
I can’t believe this plane has the stigma it has. I learned to fly in one of these. Actually this year I flew one after 33 years. I did my initial spin check also in a tomahawk as a student pilot in Australia.These planes are not dangerous.....it would be like putting a pilot into a tail dragger without training. Or a cirrus for that matter. Very docile in a spin and easy recovery even from a flat spin.
Talked to an old CFI and he called the Tomahawk “widow maker”. I almost bought one before I bought a C172.
I fly them regularly and totally agree with you. :D
@@mikeparker6322 hey Mike, sadly some CFIs are frightened to train what an aeroplane Is capable of. I used to have a CFI that said flying IFR and twin engined aeroplanes were dangerous....and he meant it. But in the wrong (untrained hands) both of those activities can be classed as widow makers. Try VMC into IMC without the rating or just after lift of in a twin loosing an engine without the rating....you are going to die in both. A tomahawk has stall characteristics you need to train for. I personally feel if an aircraft is capable of spinning ( not necessarily rated for it but capable) you should be trained to recover from fully developed spins. Quite frankly a spin is an awesome fun manoeuvre, I do them for fun in a citabria. BTW the C172 is a good honest aeroplane. Thanks for responding.
John.
@@johnfield7451 single pilot ifr is more dangerous, maybe that's what he meant...
@@class2instructor32 hey thanks for commenting. I know this opens up a whole new discussion but if it was anyone else I would probably agree with you. This guy felt that training IFR and twins was dangerous so it wasn’t offered at the school.
What a meticulously kept and beautifully updated airplane; it looks better than new. My tomahawk on the other hand looks every one of it’s 40 years; the only thing these two planes have in common; they are currently missing their interior panels - there’s always something to update and perfect! I absolutely love the tomahawk! it flies amazingly well! lands like on rails; big doors; roomy interior; it’s a dream
Is it just me, or is the landing gear exceptionally wide-set? Does that help with landing stability?
Robert Kirchner - the tomahawk has 10 foot track; the 150 has a 7 foot track (depending on model year; the tomahawk’s landing gear is also quite a bit stiffer; the tomahawk feels may be a tad more secure once you’ve put it down but wouldn’t say it makes that much of a difference
I’ve flown over 170hrs in a tomahawk in the past year and absolutely love it as a trainer and day tripper
I did a lot of my training in the Tomahawk (and a fair amount in the DA-20 --- also a great plane). You are so on the money with the ergonomics and the space! When I got my license, my wife and I could put a picnic basket and beach towels (maybe a small backpack for overnight) in the back, and take off for Cape Cod, Martha's Vineyard, or Maine. Not a huge useful load, but enough for us. Not as stylish or responsive as the Diamond, but much more roomy and comfortable and easy to fly. The other nice thing is the trim was pretty good: 70 kts was kind of everything, Vy, best glide, approach (if I'm remembering), and if it was trimmed up and you did a go-around, power in, forward pressure on the yoke for a bit, and then it would find that speed again in the climb. No fussing around. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
That little girl in the plane is giving you a death stare
😂
@@mojogrip Hi Mike, I was wondering if you could make a video on the Beechcraft Duke. It is a very reliable plane and it is fast :D
🤣
I also did my basic in a Tomahawk in 1990. A couple of cons; check the ADs. I saw another report that mentioned several reoccurring 100 hour ADs. My school had two, one dropped the left wing on the stall, the other dropped the right wing. My instructor got really upset when I tried to raise the wing with an aileron which could lead to a spin. The good news is that it taught proper stall recovery technique. Nice panel
I learned to fly in the Piper Tomahawk. I got my private license in this same plane in 1979 at Torrance Airport, now known as Zamperini Field.
My discovery flight was a Grumman. The next 200 hours hours were all Tomahawks and/or Sparrowhawks. That was back in 2005. I thoroughly enjoy flying PA38s. Years ago, yep. . .it had a bad rap. Smart people resolved that quickly making it, for me, the best trainer for the price. I will admit. . .I did have a few "hefty" CFIs that truly couldn't fit into a 150/152 without pinning my elbows into my side. Twas NEVER a problem with a Tomahawk. So much nostalgia with this bird. I've serious considerations towards re-doing one even today for the family.
Fantastic airplane! I got my PPL in the Tomahawk this year, and this review hit all the best parts of the hawk! The visibility is amazing, tons of room, well-layed out flightdeck, and the iconic T-tail! The Tomahawk does have a more aggressive break during stalls than other aircraft, but this helps teach proper stall recovery technique and rudder coordination just as Piper intended. Instrument rating coming soon!
Agree!
Agree, I did my first solo in this airframe.
Onn
Spot on
I took lessons in one back in the day. 6’-5” and fit fine. Spin recovery was my favorite lessons. Great little plane. Would love to have one.
I love doing spins in the ‘Hawk. You learn the proper way to recover in this plane. People say it spins too easily, but recovery is easy as well.
Almost 6 ft 6 and got most of my primary in a tomahawk. Could not fit in a 150/152. Was glad to fly the PA38. Taught you to fly by the numbers like larger planes.
I wish my school had one for that reason, I’m 6-6 and would love to have this space because the 150-152 is going to be a no
The avionics is more expensive than the plane
many times this is the case
I got my license back in 2003. Life happened, and I didn't have my first BFR... until a couple weeks ago. The plane I've been flying lately (a 1977 C172N) is one that I trained in 17 years ago, but its avionics have been upgraded pretty much exactly the same as this Tomahawk: A GTN 650, two G5s, and a GTX 345 transponder. Becoming proficient with them is something I'm very much looking forward to.
I took flying lessons in the piper in the 90's, felt like a proper plane with the lever throttle as opposed to the pull push cessna's. Did my solo in it but alas gave up after that, couldn't handle the radio work lol..Best 17hrs of my life..
Talking on a radio is the same as talking on the phone. Of course millennials never talk on phone , they text. 😹
@@thelastrebelshow1627 Diagnosed with adhd years later..It all made sense to me after that, so disappointing tho..I used to wonder why my instructor would say you've gone radio deaf, he had no idea I suffered with it and neither did I!!
@@gambog6684 Well don’t feel bad most people have trouble with the radio . A lot depends on where you live too as some areas are so much busier than others. If you lived say in some areas of the Midwest and flew all uncontrolled airports and private strips you could potentially never have to use the radio except to announce your position and intentions but would rarely to never be answered. Like everything because of the amounts of people doing it it becomes much more complicated.
May I recommend you watch as many Paul Stamets videos as possible . He’s a mushroom expert and a scientist and you can learn how to completely cure your ADHD maybe in one day with psilocybin. Don’t laugh, the more you know about it and other medicinal mushrooms you will be amazed. They have the ability to prevent and cure almost anything. Also watch Fantastic Fungi and the other videos you will see when you search it all right here on You Tube. They’re amazing! And all natural. If you can avoid man made drugs you are ahead of the game right off. And no, you don’t need to get high, the smallest amounts can change your life. I’m not a kid either I’m 60. Good luck.
@@thelastrebelshow1627 I was devastated when I gave up but felt I would have been a danger to myself and others especially as I was about to start soloing out of the pattern.. I'm 56 now and only started to follow these aviation channels recently and man has it got the juices flowing. Who knows maybe dig out the old textbooks brush up and start taking lessons again. It's so frustrating for me sometimes when I watch these videos especially knowing I could handle that little plane but letting myself down by radio work..I took my flying lessons back then at an international airport which was a big mistake, there's a little towered airport just up the road from me, I may pop down there have a chat with an instructor and see what he thinks..I don't care if it takes a 1000hrs to grasp the radio the passion to fly is overwhelming..
Started my training in one, now teaching in one...just love it.
Hey Mike, great review of one of the more unloved GA trainers out there. I did most of my training in one, only time I ever felt it was underpowered was doing short/softs on grass. It was extremely stable at cruise, stalls were not super fun, but I only got to incipient stall territory before my CFI took it. We did do a spin or two, but that NOISE!!! I looked back to see that beautiful T tail whipping around and got spooked. My CFI got 8 rotations out of it once! I did my long solo XC in it, and got back just in time, as the sea fog rolled in at my second stop, which was close to my training area. Super comfortable, great visibility for looking out for other a/c, I actually tuned one of my radios to a local AM station on my way along the coast and caught an inning of a ball game...good times. Keep 70 on final til you flare and it's all good. Someone else had the bottom fall out on them, let it get too slow over the numbers and the tail quit flying. Tough little beasties, too. Thought hard about going into debt to get one after I got my ticket, but life got in the way. THAT particular one is really awesomely nice!
Also sooo much shoulder space!, One of The best throttle quadrants too. And The manual flaps.
I remember learning to fly in the 80's on a Tomahawk out of Manchester airport (Ringway). I preferred it to the 150 for the simple reason that you never lost sight of what you were turning towards with it being a low wing.
I had not considered this plane. But it might be the ticket for starting my hands on training. Makes more sense than renting.
I bought one to do my PPL and enjoyed every 200h I have on it. I'm former AME and indeed, they are easy to maintain and have a lot less AD's then Cessna's. And who doesn't like a Johnson bar as a flap actuator! I'm a good seize man too, 42'' at the shoulders, so the spacy cabin for a 2 seaters was also at the top of my list. Another thing I liked about it, is in the winter, you don't have to worry about snowfall, the Tomy will stay on it's 3 legs until next week-end when you get there to clean it... Not like Cessna's where every 2'' of snowfall you have to rush to the airport and clean it out, otherwise the tail is on the ground and may be frozen to the ground by the next week-end.... so just another little piece of mind there.
I am doing my private pilot in the Piper Tomahawk. I love it. Just soloed in it. I would like to have one of these to build time in!
I can attest to the Tomahawks roominess. I am 6"4 tall with long legs and arms. When I started flying training many years ago, I sat in a C150 first, than a Tomahawk next. I started flying that day in the Tomahawk. Its great for big pilots. Cockpit layout falls to hand easily too.. Its great for the instructor too, enough room for both occupants and no cockpit clutter.
I have been working on these things and flying them for decades. As you would expect we are seeing comments that may not be all that accurate with some probably 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand. The video itself has a few errors. Having all the interior trim missing gives a false impression also. The engine is actually an O-235 of 118hp. The wing life was a design feature to get the machine certified quickly and a finite life of 11,000 hrs was selected. It can be taken out a minimum of 7650 additional hours with the spar cap kit. Regards the stall, there was an early AD to add the extra pair of stall strips and that mellowed the wing drop. The Tomahawk evolved over the 4 year production and it is the early one (1978) that are a little different. They are a great machine and very sought after these days.
Hi Kevin,
It’s a crowd killer two people at a time. It’s dangerous and as Bill Kelly, former Chief Test Pilot for Piper advised company leadership years ago- buy them back, crush them.
I’ve conducted in depth investigations of fatal accidents involving this poor airplane. Kelly was right.
@@franksgattolin8904 Sounds like your investigations may have involved reading the old glossy magazines. As I say I have been around them as an engineer, (LAME, A&P, IA) and commercial pilots since the early 80's. They are a much better machine than the Cessna 150 and 152 in my experience and opinion. I currently own two Tomahawks and two Cherokees, there is nothing about either type that makes them dangerous. Perhaps it could be the pilot that is the issue. One fleet I was involved with did 30,000 hours operating Tomahawks and had a very good run. They made that aeroclub a lot of money. The Tomahawk is very popular with private owners, an easy machine to maintain and fly.
@@kevinsmith467 Well Kevin, all I can say is that as an NTSB ASI I spent close two two years digging into this unfortunate bird's design, manufacture and flight record as a result of fatal accidents I investigated. The glossy magazines as you call them were not referred too. We deal with factual evidence and there was plenty of that on this poor bird.
There was more than sufficient evidence showing it is a troubled airplane that will bite the unwary pilot without warning. When the two primary designers say it was a good design until the production design engineers acquired it and give factual reasons to support their statements, that leads one to ask more questions.
Go dig up the NTSB Inman, KS PA-38 fatal accident report. Think you'll learn a it you're unaware of.
@@franksgattolin8904 We have to be talking about two different aeroplanes. In my world I see a machine that is never spoken poorly of. I have never met an unhappy owner. Look at the comments here and you will see much the same trend. The Tomahawks here have been owned for years and operated in relatively large training fleets. There must be in excess of 30 aircraft that have been operated by the likes of the Canterbury, Hawkes Bay, Southland, Mid-Canterbury and similar aero clubs. Each aircraft may typically be in the 10 to 15,000 hour range now. That is a wealth of operating experience. In some cases 40 years continuous operation. The guys that work on, and fly, the type know it well. The weaknesses that have causes the accidents have been identified and addressed. The fuel cock, the gascolator and the undercarriage mounting. All those have established fixes and it is poor maintenance practices that continues to cause grief. It is a machine that is well liked and has a proven record. As I say it is sought after. There are flying schools about that have yet to find a better training machine.
@@kevinsmith467 Kevin, it's a matter of time before the unfortunate bird bites one or two more fine human beings. Personally, I think it's a cute airplane but that's as far as I can go.
When you experience, first hand, the carnage and human remains caused by the airplane you see what happens when the airplane decides to act out. It motivates you to determine "Why?" When the airplane's two designers and chief test pilot essentially say it shouldn't have been certified and allowed to be flown in public sector, that motivates one to get to the bottom of, "Why is that?" Then, when you arrive at the facts your gut tightens up. You do what you can to either get the 'patch up' fix or fixes to make it safe for flight or de-certify it. Disappointingly, the airplane is still on the market and will continue to hurt people. Red the Inman, KS factual report and request a copy of the designer's deposition.
In the mean time, if you're still flying the bird, be careful, avoid stalls and spins and flight at min. control A/S. Research the airfoil and the airplanes wing structure.
I've said all I care to say on this subject. It brings back bad on scene memories which I do not need..
Fly safe Kevin... know your airplane.
So long,
Frank G.
I earned my private on the Tomahawk. Awesome plane, and I really appreciated it more after flying 150/152, and in other 2 seaters like Grumman Anerican AA1. Cant stress how much different low wing feels than high wing. Thanks for the great vids.
I just did my first intro flight in one of these today, brilliant little airplane, I look forward to playing again.
I really, genuinely enjoyed your video. Totally agree, the 38 is a great aircraft. Your enthusiasm for it is awesome.
Thank You for showing some love to my favorite plane!!
Twice I've kept my Tomahawk in the air for 5.0 on the hobbs. Super comfortable and fun plane to fly.
Soloed in 202HD in Terre Haut back in 87. Thanks.Doug Danforth!! Loved the Tomahawk!
Did my VFR Night rating on the Tomahawk recently. What a great flying bird it is!
I always love the look of a tomahawk. But I passed on one to get a Cherokee 140 and it was a wonderful little airplane and I could even squeeze my two toddlers on the back. Didn't climb that great with the kids especially with a high density altitude but it took me everywhere I wanted to go and build a lot of time in it 😊
Another great video man!! Your true passion come through your videos!! Good for you.
Mike, thank you for the inspiration. I'm studying for the written test now and in need of a CFI (Atlanta, GA). Thank you.
Really great overview. Earned my Private in a Tomahawk and it really teaches sound airmanship and energy management. It can stall hard but I think it's by design and gives you plenty of warning including buffeting on the stabilizer. Thanks for the upload!
one of the best aviation channels on youtube, I am planning to buy a tomahawk
Great Video @Mojogrip I'm really starting to like the Tomahawk. It's got a great view from the windscreen. I am at the point that I'm seriously considering getting my PPL and using this A/C to get it in. Thank you for the review.
Brian
I did my instrument training and spin training in one of those. The A.D. for the vertical stabilizer had been done. I really have an affection for the Tomahawk. Put some wheel pants on it and it looks like a little speedster. They handle well and are very slippery but once you get use to the sensitivity of them they are a great little airplane and I've often thought about buying one myself. Glad you did a review on this underestimated little aircraft.
The very first plane I began taking my flying lessons in! Mark in Iowa.
I have about 20 hours in Tomahawks, they are wonderful airplanes.
I love this plane! I learned to fly in one (2364A) and got my private. Training in this plane was a brease. Did many stalls on purpose but was not allowed to spin it.. Did them in a 150.. I'd buy a Tomahawk any day.. Hahaha we used to call them a" Traumahawk " in our flight school.. But they flew stable and would take a pounding by student pilots without any problems.. Thank you for bringing me back to this great memory! Peace bro
Enjoyed the presentation. Brought back memories too. Take Care.
Plane looks like its getting into beautiful shape. My initial training was in a Tomahawk and I loved it. If felt happy to be in the air. Stalls were MEANT to get your attention. They wanted to make real pilots, not occupant button pushers. There's no stall warning horn. Instead, the turbulent pre-stall air strikes the T-tail and makes it rumble. As I say, gets ,your attention.
6'2" with looooonnnng legs - the T-Hawk fits me well! A great sport plane for many, many reasons. Thanks for the video.
I enjoyed this review man. Great job!
Love you videos man keep up the great work
Thanks Mike. I now like this model after a friend told me about instructing in them and how good they were.
Did my first solo on a PA38....will never forget....
OMG. Y first plane I ever flew and solo. What memories I loved it. Low wing I loved it
I had a couple hours in Tomahawks back in 80 or 81. Was easy plane to fly! Memories!
Thanks Mike for this excellent review ! I would have liked to see the Engine compartment but that's just mechanic's thing - we are never happy until we look under the hood ! CHEERS !
Loved the video thanks Mike!
I did my instrument training in a 79 tomahawk. Nice, stable platform.
The double access to the engine is also great, beats looking in the cooling vents and down the oil bay
What a nice review, planning to get into aviation soon this is useful information. Thx
Great video! I've always loved the amazing looks of this plane! To me it is like a little fighter aircraft in the way it is laid out.
Very cool thank you for sharing your journey!
I learned in one of these and love them
After I got my license (trained in '74 Cessna 150), I found an FBO at MKC that rented these for a good rate, an hour of ground and an hour in the air, and I got about 50 hours before, I bought into a partnership on a Cherokee 180. It was a good transition to the bigger plane.
ty so much for this detailed vid!
Good old Tomahawk, my favorite airplane. I got my PPL in the little hawk back in the 70's out of Midway Airport and would LOVE to own one. ( or a Sling )
My old Tomahawk N9674T started out at Midway
Nice job showing this and your explanation is good
I flew my first 1 hour lesson in a P38 Tomahawk.............loved it
Very insightful, thanks!
One of the first planes I ever flew. I took it up to its service ceiling, good times.
I learned how to fly in a tomahawk. Great airplane. I prefer it over the Cessna.
I am a maintenance engineer on the Tomahawk and Cherokees. These machines are all 40 years old now and need attention, as do any aircraft and particularly aged ones. My experience with type has been all positive but there are 3 or 4 systems we ensure are maintained correctly. The gascolator, the fuel cock and the undercarriage. We have seen from aircraft accident reports that these areas have bitten hard when maintenance has been neglected. All are easily remedied. The after-market gascolator, the 400 hour fuel cock re-lube, and the nose stop rod and correct hardware for the MLG mounts will cure any short comings there.
Thanks for this. I also got my PPL in the Tomahawk in New Zealand. I even elected for 5hrs extra for spin training. Exciting but useful. I like your aircraft CZcams productions, different from the others, more personal
Love your stuff Mike!
I used to own a Tommy. Loved it and quite unique
Mojo your enthusiasm is so beautiful God bless u
Interesting comment about the stall issue. I did my spin training in a Tomahawk because the Cheetah I did most of my training in was not cleared for spin training.
Really enjoyed your tour of the Tomahawk - I learned to fly in one back in 1984 in Yuma, Az., (25818).
Got my PPL in Tomahawks. Great trainer. Roomy with super visibility. The rear tie down has been ground flat by over rotating on takeoff or holding the nose too high on landing.
Great paint job & avionics !
Thanks for the great review.
Great review.. thank you
Awesome aircraft, spacious interior, great instrument location layout. Critical speeds little higher than Cessna, but that is how is suposed to be among aircraft, student pilot must learn every airplane has some differences that you must know and adress adequately. So this is safe as you want it to be.
Mike, thanks for your channel. I thoroughly enjoy your insights and assessments. I recently watched your presentation on the Piper Tomahawk. I would love to see your assessment of its rival, the Beechcraft Skipper!
Skipper..just as good
very cool Mike! Thanks
First plane I ever flew was a Tomahawk (N2474G). Really liked it.
Personally the Piper Cherokee 180. You can do a proper weekender that can carry a decent load. Stay away from spins it takes forever to get out off.
My intro flight as a beginning flight student was in a Piper "Traumahawk". Thanks Mike!
awsome video, i love it
Great review! On a beautiful airplane.
I liked starting out in the pipistrel alpha. Best way to start if you don’t need a plane straight away
thanks for you info. your the best keep going.
I dont fly but I have been following. This would definitely suit me with bigger cabin, affordability etc. Thx for the review.
Nice plane same club here in Córdoba Argentina have a couple of then i always love to watch
Flew them in 89 when popular was good with the canopy and visibility the elevator felt different in the flare to most I can recall.
Gorgeous!
Look out for the high time Tomahawks. The wing times out at 11,000 hours. Not a bad thing, so long as you have a plan for what you are going to do upon reaching that number.
I think there is now a wing alteration that you can do for about $4k that will allow another 7k hrs on the airframe.
I did y my pvt and instrument love it I’m looking to buy one soon
Looks like a fun plane to fly
This is a crazy nice plane.
One of the best looking Planes.
that is what I trained in. Piedmont Aviation flight school in Winston Salem NC. around 1989. My dad was a pilot of for Piedmont Airlines. Only cost $20 an hour for flight time back then.
Great video!
Amen bro
Thanks for this.