This 3D Printer is a BEAST!!! The Pantheon Design HS3!
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- MASSIVE shoutout to Pantheon for sending the HS3 over for testing and evaluation.
Want to know more? www.pantheondesign.com/
Taking a look at the Pantheon HS3, initial impressions and taking a look under the hood to see what makes it tick.
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What cool projects would you want to see me do with this printer? And what would you do if you had one?
I’d like to see some metal infused prints. Perhaps some exotic filaments?
Since this printer is built so rigid, I'd like to see a resonance test as well as print quality on perimeter walls
The dream isn't to have a machine like this, but to have a business that needs a machine like this
Honestly the best feature is that they put everything on the back to be serviceable and accessible. That makes so much of a difference people just cannot appreciate that enough. Every time I have to plug something in, upgrade, or correct something, Its unbelievably a pain to flip a printer just to do one thing
I hope the v2 goes this route in the next major revision. Having the electronics in the bottom is a pain
get something like RockNRoll mod or something similar from Printables, a huge help when you need to do something quickly, just make sure the gantry is as low as possible
Vzbot :D
i feel like with some minor tweaking, this printer can do 100c heated chamber, would be cool to see a V2 that can do that
I kinda want to win the lottery to buy this
I like the statement and your opinion that this is designed not so much for speed, but consistent quality and success. Too many companies and users are chasing the grail of speed often at the cost of quality and getting good prints every time. I run most of my printers at a much slower speed - so I get better results
Some people like a Porsche, others like a Hilux. Personnally I think its great that we have arrived at a point where we can have a bambu, this and companies make parts for a crazy folks building a voron in their basement :)
@@paulb4334 It is nice that we can pick from so many options. I have two Bambu a Prusa XL and two Rat Rigs. ON order a Magneto and a new Rat Rig Vcore 4.
Such a beastly printer! Nice to see a Canadian company showing what canucks can do!
First the FLSUN S1 and now the Pantheon Design HS3. It seems you need a crane or a forklift in your studio.
he's also getting XL and maybe Vcore-4, time for coreXY ceiling winch
I've never handled one, maybe this is a dumb question:
Does the CF/Glass filled part leave an exposed surface of fiber splinters to rub off on your hands?
Not really, remember any fibers need to be small enough to fit through the nozzle
The CF petg that they sell prints very nice and smooth to the touch
I've been looking at this printer for a couple months. So well made. This would be used for production and the company that I work for.
Such a beast.
It's a 3D printer whose motion system could crush limbs. 😂
Please do a z wobble test. I neeeeeed to see how perfect the layers stack.
Check the next stream I'll show off some tall prints
@@CanuckCreator And please do the resonance test in clipper this should be sick
Resonance tester please!
@@OvenroastedJerky Second!
I’ve been wanting a 3D Printer for the bed of my off-road truck. This might be the one!
I mean, they actually did throw one in the back of the truck and drove around town as a test and it printed fine so uhh, send it!
@@CanuckCreator😂👍
I love this printer! I print engineering materials for automotive parts and this printer is on my list for when my x1c dies.
the servos can pull 150-175w constant with peeks over 400w PER SERVO . the bed is mains powered. I will say they are greatly limiting the jerk and braking by keeping the voltage low they really want 48-72v to be happy
It's probably intentional so that 100lb machine doesn't shake off the desk or punch holes in a wall. Although, you do make me wonder how fast it really can print.
It's true, higher voltage would be ideal. The HS3 operates at a nominal 24VDC bus. The bed is also powered by this bus through an annoyingly fancy DC-DC relay (the amps required for the 500W bed makes it fancy). Reason we everything is powered off the 24V bus is mainly certification requirements. Under 30V is considered "extra low voltage" and you thus has much less stringent requirements.
Also, the rubber feet were definitely a requirement, some of our early machines that didn't have such feet walked themselves across the room overnight. 😅
@rileygunn1287 note to self.. first mod replace servo supply with 48v psu.
If the bed and servos are running off that it's willfully be underpowered the moment anyway one cranks up the acceleration settings 😒. In the USA, anything under 48v is basically a rubber stamp.. side note, since this is not a linear power supply, it had no way to dump flyback power from the servos. Have they added a proper crowbar circuit with a load dump. ? Otherwise the voltage spikes can blow up the psu, and even the controller.
Also I have over 40 products in the global market and 11 patents in my name. I feel I have at least a little understanding on this matter as a hardware and electrical engineer
@@ZoeyR86 I agree, more power = more better! Any increase in voltage potential would increase the max velocity and torque. Maybe a 75V version of the HS3 that one signs a waiver for before buying? 😅
The power distribution Nero points out handles the flyback power from the servos. They are isolated from the bus via an ideal diode and any voltage spikes are clipped and dumped by some zener diodes. Nothing fancy, simple and reliable 👍
The bed is 500W but it only pulls that during warm up, at print temperatures, to maintain the bed at 80-90°C it requires a lot less. Which leaves plenty of power for the hotend and Servos.
@@rileygunn1287 all sounds good I know those servos can peek over 430w each but that's at the upper end of the voltage range I have a few clearpaths floating around I just never ran them below 36v before.
Zener diodes work ok I'd at least wire them in series with 5w 0.5-1ohm resistors to help take the load off the diode. I haven't done any homework on the machine to really be saying more then the basics.
As I’ve seen stated before, this is the kind of machine that you would consider to be an absolutely insane value for companies that usually find themselves spending $20-60k on a printer that likely can’t even compete with this one in terms of quality and reliability. The commercial and “pro” market is flooded with printers that aren’t worth anywhere near what they’re sold for, but this one in many ways feels like a total bargain for just how insanely rigid and kitted out it is. Cause why buy a single $40k printer when you can get 4 of these and every one of them will probably be better than the $40k one
Finally! I can retire my Ender 3 V2.....lol
That is one beautiful rig! On my wish list for sure 😂
when you can budget for 15k it really opens up alot and shows that the opensource stuff can hold its own
Well to be fair. While it is running klipper. The printer construction itself isn't open source
@@CanuckCreator ah I see. Still a sweet little rig tho
Impressive piece of tech !!!
I might need to take some inspiration from this for my tool changer build.
If this printer is that sturdy then do you think it could cope with being used as a CNC mill? Not for steel but softer materials? If the toolhead is that easy to change then it could be a multi purpose machine.
it probably could, but the rails wouldnt last as long, there not really the kind you want to use with an "active" load on them, also, personally im not a fan of machines that eat where they poop, so dual cnc/fdm style
I do very much like the single plate frame design idea (have been considering it for a design I got in mind) and the fact that the mechanics are solid and wont require as much maintenance (one of my peeves with most printers having not that great mechanics quality if used long term professionally)
That being said, my main problem is that I can buy 7 x X1C for the price of this printer and it will do the same stuff reliably and fast enough to vastly outpace this printer (heck same for the new flsun printer and other industrial printers), while being highly redundant so if one breaks down you just move the work to another one and potentially even just order another printer instead of even repairing the broken down one (friend does this with his A1 minis, buys it sets it up, runs it till something major fails and then buys a new one).
The only time I can see a expensive entry level industrial printer really be worth it is when printing as you said very large prints with very expensive plastics, which make a failed print a big loss of money/time.
Been running servos and closed loop steppers for several years now and in terms of using a stock board and klipper the only thing you need to keep in mind is you are only using the step/dir pins off your stepper driver slot(no driver needed bc it's external or integrated to the motordepending on model) and you comment out the tmc motor section for the motors you're using. Some motors require 5v step signal in that case you run 5v from your board to the step/dir+ and might have to add a pulse width value to the motor configuration but that's it it's simpler than normal step drivers. Sure you don't get integrated tuning support with klipper but if you have higher end servos that's not a concern, or if you have lots of time to learn to manually tune them same. But the sound and speed is why I do it the combo of the 2 is Un matched
Is that thermoplastic around that mains voltage input? And is there good separation between the mains input and the network plug?
What exactly makes this better than an x1c? Only ridigity?
The Pantheon came out a long time before the Magneto X. I don't know if that makes it the first servo motor based printer on Klipper or not, but I remember seeing one back in 2020
Did they fixed the Z wobble problem? I really like the design idea with the one reference plate to ve it all aligned perfectly.
I'm definitely not the market for it, but good to see it can use third party filaments and all! Saw it on the live stream with the company on 3DPN and seemed they were targeting more proprietary focus. Would be interested in seeing what maintenance is needed over time.
13:04 the solid state relay is DC/DC. so no its not mains powered bed.
i noticed that in the edit lol
which is a shame but understandable, printer works on 120V and 220V without changing parts
When are you getting the 22idex v4 from visionminer
I enjoyed this review. Is there anything about the design of this printer that might make it's way into a new/different Voron?
Hard to say, again, big part of the Voron Design ethos is using off the shelf parts and no custom machining....which are rules this printer breaks alot of
Also, first look/over view video....not a review
@@CanuckCreator Maybe just design a big square shape on the top with 6030 extrusions then mount everything on it like this machine?
Is that the parts to an SBL I'm seeing in the black filament?
Yep
Thanks for the video. It is always good to see these high-end printers as future consumer printers will likely get some of the features in the future. Also still ticked you did not pick my number for the positron at MRRF (haha, just kidding).
What’s the build volume? I must have missed when that was stated.
300mm3
How to we donate some peek and other exotic filaments? What is the power draw on this bad boy?
750 watts was a lot less then I was thinking.
What's the internal diameter on that reverse Bowden tube?
Remind to check on stream, its printing right now lol
6mm ID, 10mm OD
@@rileygunn1287 interesting! I’ve always used much smaller IDs for this.
I see you printing GavinFuzzy's SBL :)
What a beast! Yeah you are right, we are not the target group for this but can still admire it 🙂
Is Armchair Angel inspired by this? Also has steel halo which everything attaching to it.
I believe it is
Speeboat benchy gogo :D
The fact it can't do PEEK/PEKK is slightly disappointing for that price tag. But it is build like an aircraft carrier, so…
Different kind of machine for a different use case
Not everyone NEEDS PEEK/PEKK printers but still can benefit from a very solid reliable printer design with very low maintence requirements
14:59 I thought one of the golden rules for printing nerf blasters was to never do them in black or other pewpew colours.
Ever since I saw the pantheon printer and learned how they were handling it, it has been kicking around in the back of my mind as a stretch goal if I make enough money. It really is what an industrial printer should be, not stratasys or ultimaker or lulzbot (lulzbot earned a small amount of good will though). I am sure that besides some electrical component replacement like fan connections, with a diamond nozzle it would run continuously for thousands of hours.
Website says it's 300x300x300 build volume, but it looks tiny for the size of the printer itself, which is 600x600x650.
Thing is built like a tank.
Clearpath servos + ballscrews are bulky
this kinda made me jealous now i want to make my voron do even better than what this can do
So they basically put everything in metal to make it as stiff as possible and thats about it? I mean everything else it basically stock parts you can buy for a reasonable amount of money.
Ehh, not quite, if you look up the BOM cost (plus custom machined components like the common plate and others) + labour your still looking at a quite large pricetag, then add service and support + ya know, paying your employees, it gets pricey very quick
@@CanuckCreator Is there a BOM to look up? I'd be super interested in that if it exists (no time to create one based on guessing plus i havent looked... no time atm). This is the kind of printer i wanted to design and build for myself years ago but aren't in the position to time/life wise). But i can do all the "expensive" machining/manufacturing myself so i may well be able to make it for a fraction of the price and it be a viable option. Given how nearly all of the components aren't proprietary it may be feasible.
Nice! I've had two SecKit SK-Tanks*, and this looks even tankier than those :-) Not that I'm complaining.
*Current is SK-Tank v2 with the carbon fiber X gantry, chamber heater and PC enclosure. As with the Tank v1, I love the solid steel frame. But the v2 is fairly noisy, unless I put Servo42Cs on it.
I wouldn't add the Prusa Pro HT90 as a real competitor, since it's ... well ... a Delta that doesn't have anything more than we can do ourselves, tbh. Besides being too way overpriced, as any other prusa product. I don't know any industrial that would rely on a prusa either.
The HS3 is on a WHOLE different leve, as Vision Miner's models are !
and what not! lol ;) Nice review!
Than green/yellow wire would be code violation atleast in Europe ( but i can imagine in some other countries too )
slickkkk
You forgot to mention the FLsun S1 that can run rings around this not to mention the HUGE variation in pricing !!!
as someone who actually HAS both and has USED both
lol no, there are in no way comparable
Serious .... did anyone notice the wiring (color) on the SSR? If this is Prosumer device i would expect correct wire coloring .... (look at timestamp 13:20)
If you mean the bright orange, it's just the only colour IGUS supplies a 10AWG single conductor cable/wire in their "chainflex" series. (CF885-PE)
When we have a bit more purchasing power to ask a big company like IGUS to make a custom colour, we could.
SSR is on the high-side of the load, what colour do you think it should be? Red? Also, does polarity really matter for a resistive load? 🤔
Wubby Wubby Woo!
who is this lend currency williams you speak of?
someone should do a BOM on this and get a cost on all those parts. sounds pretty rich.
it is YES monies
3 clearpath motors and one dinky little 4020 cooling fan 💀 I don't think that's enough even for petg unless you overvoltage it
Finally a prosumer machine that's worth its price lol
Great printer and review! Video focus when you put your hands in camera is shifting all the time, hard to watch for me.
The printer newbies expect a ender 3 to be 😂
Making a printer for the sole reason of printing engineering/industrial filaments and not not adding an active chamber heater just seems like a waste, even if it doesnt need one because of the heat from the build plate they have lost a great marketing point. They could of at least put a crappy little heater in there so they could say "chamber actively heated" but now they have to explain that the build playe should hopefully be enough.
is it a waste though if thats not what the customers there serving want/need?
Its very easy to add one, but theyve had the machine on the market for years in various iterations and yet, no chamber heater (at least....for now....)
Based on first glance and price, I was pretty sure this was going to be for high temp printing of peek and ultem.
Since it's not, there is really is no good reason to buy this... It's overbuilt and doesn't do anything better than a printer that's 10% of its' cost.
Ahh shoot, you should probably tell all their ongoing customers this cus you seem to understand the entire industrial/commercial 3d printing market
@@CanuckCreator You really didn't demonstrate any of the features in this overbuilt printer that makes it worth it. Yes, it's made of expensive components... wow cool! In the end you're still going to be fiddling with it like any fdm printer, but at 6-10x the price without any of the 6-10x the price features.
I've seen first hand the types of things companies are willing to waste money on. Having a company buy this isn't proof it's worth the money. However.. I bet a little bit of money coming my way for each one I sell might change my mind about it too.
@@nzalog It's a bit difficult to show reliability, dimensional accuracy and good support in a video. Not to mention all the certifications this printer most likely has and all the China printers don't.
Clear path servo
Yes they are
Only in Canada you say? :)
they do ship outside of canada
Good video as usual
Without actively heated chamber, i don't understand what this printer is for
It does have a chamber heater....100w of hotend and whatever else heat the bed is dumping out that circulated by the chamber fan. But for Pet and nylon based filaments It's enough and It's prints em beautifully and it's designed to meet their customers needs.
I do believe they are working on an activily heated chamber but this model doesn't have it
Maybe it is enough ... But if i want to print PP on PP tape or POM on a POM plate, I keep my bed off .
So I won't be able to it in good condition.
It was so easy to add an infrared lamp, why they missed that ?
This printer is for which market ? Why would anybody buy a printer rigid like this one if it is not for really high temp filament which need rigid frame because of the dilatation of the chamber.
I don't get it.
I mean, did you watch the video? I went over some of the markets there selling to and they are very much in touch and communication with their customers so if something like your talking about was in a high enough demand, they would be catering to it.
Adding a chamber heater is by no means a hard thing to do, and i figure if there market segment demanded such a feature, they would be adding one (that may even be something there actively working on)
Makes me realize how garbage my printer is. lol
So it appears that you kinda like this printer. Your arms must be tired after doing this video!
Sorry, im part italian
Printer go BRRR
how original
Needs moar RGB
built like a CNC machine, seems a bit overkill given how it performs. Doesnt even have a heated build chamber. I do wonder who this is aimed at. The print quality looks okay/decent but not the best ive seen. For 10k it seems a bit steep for something like this given what other options are available that do more.
It doesn't have a chamber heater cus it's not really needed. It's aimed at printing filled pet/nylon plastics cus that's what their customers use it for
I hope that's like a prototype and not it's consumer product because it looks very diy home built, unless they are still working on the polishing.
This is the type of machine bambu dreams it could one day compete with.
well this is kinda budget tier in the industrial world
@@8bits955 but it's what X1CE (or original X1C launch marketing) claims to be was more my point.
Just hit print and done.
@@christopherwestphal7149 true that x1ce isn’t much different to x1c. Although depend on what u want form the printer that might be enough, if you aim for production then that is a whole different level most printer that is capable of that cost a house
Not even idex
A 10K USD printer from a 12-person startup is a risk not worth ignoring.
Every company starts somewhere
And FWIW, 14:47 please take some responsibility and do not encourage print black gun-shape parts. It's a faux pas for good reason. At least make those in the purple ABS instead. Even if youre not putting it in public, some dumber kid will.
Would be nice if someone made CF-filled filaments that where not black, but is what it is.
I don't get it, why he should not print it in black ?
@@chatroux399 It might get mistaken for a real gun, thats why black is controversial. Adding an orange tip is something that might work, since in the US people do that to show that its a "toy" gun, not sure how it is in Canada
We can buy black toys so it is ridiculous to complain about the colour.
He prints whatever he want as long as it is legal.
I really dont like any 3d printer that requires a "hat". Feels like a bad design.
Fun facts, all vorons have a hat, its just built into the frame
Your always going to have a "volume" above the toolhead, they COULD have put an extrusion frame above it and made it integral like say a voron trident/vzbot/ratrig vcore ETC
Or, you have an easily removable hat that you can move up and out of the way for easy access. nothing wrong with that
@@CanuckCreator Its why I dont like any of those machines. Maybe im just too spoilt by bambu tbh. I got rid of all my vorons and replaced them with X1C for my business. The vorons just take up too much space for the build volume they offer.
I expected a more honest review from you. It seems like everyone looses any kind of critical thinking when they see this printer.
All I see is a very basic printer with the same capabilities as a X1C, built with a few overkill and expensive parts, but also cheap electronics and hobby-grade software.
The target market is definitely "prosumer", aka people with disposable income.
Please rewatch the video and let me know at what point I called it a review?
@@CanuckCreator You can call it a "presentation", "first impression" or even "ad", I think my point still stands.
can you stop flipping the dam hotend around so much, you never keep it still to be able to get a look at it. are you add? to many coffees this morning? c'mon man.
somewhat, theres pics on their site if you want more up close one, also, you know you can have multiple questions in a comment, dont need a seperate comment for each question, unless your doing that to feed to YT algo as it thinks theres more engagment on the video, if so thanks :)
@@CanuckCreator fair. but to my i original point. when doing a review on a technical item you have gone to a lot of effort to SHOW the watcher the item in great detail. i feel its so easy to do a few still or panning shots of what you are talking about instead of throwing it around in a close up shot so we cant actually see what your talking about. just neutral feedback. i think your dialogue is spot on, you got the right mindset and speech patterns. but sometimes its hard for intelligent people to step outside themselves and see from that 4th wall especially why they are doing such a job at giving the information. just trying to help you get more views. like imagine if you and your friends just go a hold of the new latest greatest gadget you had all been anticipating and you all wanna take a look but your one friend wont stop throwing it from hand to hand and he wont let you take a look. super frustrating. your right, people can go elsewhere to see the item....and thats what they will do. you dont want that. you want them to come to you when ever there is a new thing in the 3dp world. i know thats what i do, i say oh theres been a new technology or machine come out, who can i go to find out everything i need as fast as possible so i can move on with my day. thats all. hope my filterless drivel helps you suceed. greetings from your fellow prisoners of her majesty (POM) in australia
This printer doesn’t make sense. Why are they using crazy expensive ball screws when the toolhead never experiences even close to the kinds of loads those are meant for? And the servos wouldn’t be necessary if not for the ball screws being so damn heavy in the first place. Plus, those servos tend to produce strange artifacts-you never really gave us a clear shot of the non-CF prints. And… all that to print CF-PETG? CF filaments are weaker than their non-filled counterparts. All of the priorities seem mixed up here, I dunno
CF-PET is just the "bulk" filament, its mainly designed for nylons, which thats what the customers who are buying the machine and providing feedback on it, are using it for.
Honestly, the direction that 3D printing is taking with this printer is a step backward. There is no need for all this structure to make the printer extremely rigid; we can see this with Hervort, VzBot, etc. For the price, it doesn't have the TMC5160, so it's not worth it. In my humble opinion, 3D printing is moving towards quality, reliability, precision, and all of this at high speeds. This printer seems like a Creality in a super expensive and heavy structure and costs $10,000. The design could be completely rethought.
Useless 10k machine it prints like an Ender 3 LMFAO. This printer for the price will be a Total Fail, they have to know this is not a good deal at all, it don't offer anything new. the vision miner 3d printer is light years above this as what they both offer for the money. You can't even compare them.
The most overpriced printer to date the Brand New but old style printer that's slow and overpriced.
Pantheon Design HS3! verse Flsun S1?
Pantheon maybe should have bought a Vision Miner 3d printer first. Guess they like we can offer alot less and charge around the same price.
I mean, theyve been "failing" for 3+ years so far and been doing just fine, but ok