First Time Watching ALL of Star Trek - Episode 179: Ménage à Troi (TNG S3E24)
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
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The Target Audience are watching Star Trek: The Next Generation for the first time! Today we watch season 3 episode 24 - Ménage à Troi
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Special thanks to @OpenMawProductions for his graphics, backgrounds, overlays & much more!
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The cold open to this was 10,000X better than this episode. 🤪
Guys, Lwaxana's first name is pronounced Loo-ox-uh-na.
@@davidmeadows5627you are the person they complain about complaining in the videos aren’t you ? Wait am I complaining about the person complaining ? I’m gonna go sit in a corner . Farewell chat farewell
Nice reaction, on a side note: Older TV repeats things more or explains things to the audience because most likely some of the audience missed parts of the episode. Their was no rewinding, pausing, or even watching it when you wanted to. If the show started at 7pm and you didn't get home till 7:15pm that was it. You might be able to catch a repeat if they bother to show it again. I can't stress enough how the ability to pause, rewind, and rewatch shows has revolutionized the way TV is made.
Another wrinkle, TNG was syndicated, so it had no home network. In each local television market, different TV Stations would buy the broadcast rights and put it in whatever time slot they felt it fits. This typically meant that it would be on independent stations, as NBC/ABC/CBS usually had full broadcasting schedules 7 days a week for the hours that it would make sense to air a show like TNG. Often times, it'd land on Fox affiliates, as Fox was brand new and didn't have a full schedule for the first few years of its existence, but occasionally it'd land on some fully independent local UHF station.
Because of this, if you happened to be between local broadcasting markets you might get access to more than one broadcast of TNG on the same week if the affiliate in one city say broadcast it on Friday Nights, and the next city over in the other direction did it Saturday afternoons.
And if you were being visited by out of town relatives, their local broadcaster could have already shown the episode. My sister had flown in from the other coast for a visit the week TNG S5E16 aired, and I was settling down to watch the episode when she walked in, recognized the episode from having watched it earlier in the week on her local station, and just said "Oh! This is the one where [MAJOR SPOILER WHICH SOUNDS ABSOLUTELY HEARTBREAKING THE WAY SHE PHRASED IT, LEAVING OUT IMPORTANT DETAILS]!" and then just walked right out of the room. I still haven't fully forgiven her for that.
YES! THIS!
And there was I thinking I was losing my marbles being confused by new TV shows. This explains why I mainly watch old TV series, much easier to understand and plenty of recaps!
The way we view content affects how an episode or season is written. Looking at it through the lens of a modern audience is not quite getting the context right. Some things don't age as well as others. I was finishing college when TNG started airing. I had keys for the Comm lab and was able to privately screen new episodes on a theater-sized projection screen for friends. The grad TA knew but kept it to himself.
@@JAF729 Agreed, and it's so jarring compared to today's seasons made for binge-watching. Same as those commercials for sweeps weeks episodes that give away most of the story. Had to get butts in the seats so they could get higher advertising rates for the rest of the year, but man was it spoilerific
But yeah, there are better ways to over-explain than just looking in the camera and stating the obvious.
This is the episode where you learn why you don't put your hands on a Ferengi's lobes
Or maybe you do, brother.
@@InterdimensionalCowlick Nice try with the username but I recognize you, Garak....
@@togroglog2457 Plain and simple 😉
@@InterdimensionalCowlick insidious 😮
What is good is "warp 9" Patricks delivery
That was so funny. So much you can read into those two words the way they were delivered.
@@rogershore3128What’s also funny is how much Alex & Josh laughed at that line, in an episode they can’t decide whether to like or hate. It’s just a fun episode guys. Not every episode has to have a moral message to beat us over the head with. Relax & enjoy it. (It is funny to me, they understood implicitly the significance of “Warp 9”…ha. We’ll turn them into Trekies yet. Before you know it, they’ll know how to shut down the warp core, where the diluthium crystals go, how to eject the core, the consequences of an antimatter containment breach, etc. At least enough that they’ll be able to scrub the plasma conduits on deck 5. :)
Alex is correct, Mr. Hom is the true guest star.
AKA Carel Struycken, Lurch from The Addams Family movies!
Wesley getting that promotion really felt earned. He gets a lot of hate during the show, but stepping out of the turbo lift with that big smile was just great!
I just realized that both "Sarek" and "Menage a Troi" feature Patrick Stewart monologues that are completely different from one another, yet equally iconic.
One of the things I've learned in life is that you don't just marry the woman, but you marry the family. Now I know why Riker hasn't married Troi.
dunno, I feel like Will loved Lwaxana.
That's one of my favorite Picard moments. You can tell Patrick Stewart had fun getting to cut loose and show off his classically trained Shakespearean acting chops. Frakes's reaction in the background is priceless, too. Speaking of funny moments, you should check out the Season 3 bloopers sometime. It's brief, but hilarious.
"I did not play with boys."
Sir Patrick Stewart has said that the Ferengi were his favorite antagonists. Because he is, as Marina says, "a very silly man."
lol that's funny.
One other funny line you all cut (not complaining, there were a lot of fun lines)
Lwaxana Troi: “I have a new love, Jean-Luc. And you can't keep killing all my lovers. Now, that simply has to stop.”
I love that episodic TV allows for big swings like this. It doesn't always land, but it gives the creative team space to stretch and mix with the formula.
You guys really need to embrace the more light hearted episodes. In a way they’re the heart of the show. And we need that from time to time because… let’s just say dark things are around the corner. These episodes are always a breath of fresh air
I don't know what the heck's happening in the Alex and Josh plot, but I'm intrigued!
Cast your minds back to the season 1 episode "The last outpost" (first appearance of the Ferengi). The Tkon empire "Portal" reads Riker's mind and tells him that the Ferengi have closed minds. So it's actually some nice continuity and not necessarily a plot device they inserted randomly for this episode.
I like this episode, it’s just silly fun with some great moments. Lwaxana calling Tog a troll, Worf calling her an admirable woman, Deanna and Will smooching, Picard’s poetry recital and the warp 9 😂 good times. Oh and Picard’s line about the door mechanisms 😂😂😂😂
Yeah, used to hate this one for being stupid and pointless. Now I like it for exactly the sake reasons.
Wesley being made an official member of the crew is the main thing I remember about this episode.
The only thing I remembered is that it's possible to beam people out of their clothes. Now that I think about it, though, I guess "Mirror, Mirror" from TOS proved that: you can even beam them out of what they're wearing and into what someone else is wearing.
For me it's the mother daughter nude scene. 🍆
Mostly I remember the chess, because I'm a big nerd.
This is a fun ep. It's not perfect but I'm ok with that. What I like best is that there's so many great little moments. The Troi Riker kiss, their outfits, the beautiful scenery. Worf praising Lwaxana. Lwaxana being protective, which took some courage. Picard fighting to get Lwaxana back by reciting Shakespeare and her melodramatic response. The amused looks on Riker and Troi's faces as they watched him. Wesley saving the day and forfeiting going to the Academy, then becoming a full Ensign. It's all very entertaining.
One of the great things about having 179 episodes in a series is that you can have random episodes like this without worrying if there's enough time in the season for some overarching plot.
The Shakespearian speech Picard gave near the end, is the favourite part of the episode for me!
Great moment!
15:54
"Oh, I Think That's The Meme"
Yup, it certainly is the meme, Josh
Well, remember, TOS (during syndication) had been marketed toward kids, so with TNG they started treating it as a family show (hence some of their comedy). As such, some of the more obvious bits they end up pointing out on camera, it was more for the younger audience members who might be confused. They do get better throughout Trek at making that work without seeming to talk down to the rest of the audience... usually.
TOS wasn't marketed to kids, per se. It was created to run during Prime Time. Prime Time meant, family.
Lol, the fist Pilot, yeh, that's a kids show if we ever saw one! The second Pilot, oh yeh, kids show all the way.
Best part of this episode is that we're one closer to the finale!
The SEASON finale.
@@kwebb121765 True, should have been more specific
Something else just occurred to me about this episode that’s significant: it set the standard on how ferengi would be depicted going forward in basically all trek then and now.
"Do the Ferengi have a higher up like Starfleet?" So in case you've never heard of it, Star Trek is the kind of sci-fi that some criticized for featuring a trope called "planet of hats." It means that every major species in Trek has a particular "hat" they wear that informs every single aspect of their culture - for Vulcans it's logic, Klingons honor/warrior culture shtick, and the Ferengi it's profit/capitalism. I won't get into my counterargument to it, but as we learn more about the Ferengi it is interesting to question certain parts of their culture like that - because there DOES seem to be some kind of Ferengi military, at least implied to exist at a few points. How it operates is not clear, if they're more akin to a loose collection of pirates who need to pay a tithe to the government or if, while motivated by profit, they still have a higher duty to perform beyond mere acquisition. They do have higher authorities, certainly, and a full government... it's just how their military forces work when most of the time we deal with Ferengi traders, pirates, and businessmen is unclear.
At least we're past the point where each planet is just a period in Earth's history that looks suspiciously like a Paramount backlot.
That's what the Holodeck is for now.
@AT4W They do have rank which is somewhat militaristic in design or very similar. The position of Daemon sounds like a military rank IMO but I could be wrong. It's definitely a leader in the hierarchy of their space force or I would assume.
@@cashflowhustles How about "The Grand Nagus"?
@@jamesalexander5623 I would consider The Grand Nagus more a political position than a military one.
I believe there has been a bit of retcon concerning the Ferengi military prowess. In the beginning of TNG, it was implied that the Ferengi Alliance had a standing fleet with a military chain of command. However, as that species lost there status as TNG's main villains, they became more and more roguish characters. To the point that in DS9 we only see the Ferengi as either capitalists or rogues, and it is even stated by the Ferengi that they suck at war. The Ferengi are the most developed im DS9, and we never meet a DaiMon (that I can remember) in all the seven years of that show. From what I understand, the Ferengi fleet is a bit like Starfleet. Starfleet is the Federation's "military", but its first duty is exploration and science. The Ferengi fleet can be used for defense, but its main purpose is opening new markets for the Alliance. And I like your idea that the fleet is mainly composed of privateers. It would make sense that a civilization based on the purest form of classical liberalism and capitalism would work that way.
The Bradbury was undoubtedly named after famed science fiction writer Ray Bradbury who the TOS production team unsuccessfully tried to recruit into writing a STAR TREK first season episode.
All the arguing at the beginning of this episode made me wonder if Sarek was still around from last episode.
Now I know you guys actually really did watch the show ahead of time. How else could you predict how the series finale ends? 😂😂 Love the reaction. You guys had me cracking up.
I think most "reaction" channels on ytube are scams. Especially when they start predicting things that shouldn't be very predictable on a first time view.
This episode points out one of the implications of Betazoid telepathic abilities-every adversary of the Federation would probably keep captive Betazoids on their ships, to give them a strategic advantage.
That's what's so insidious about the Federation, they assimilate people like the Betazoids and they don't even know it.
My guy said “Lox-Wanna”. 😂. I’m dying here!
It is a stupid, silly but entertaining episode. Some good, character building moments for Wesley, Deanna, Lwaxana and some very funny moments. Also details about the Ferengi that create continuity in future episodes and other series.
‘I don’t know if I love this episode or hate it’
Yes.
One of the things that you two don't consider is that when the Next Generation was new, a large number of it's viewers were children. That's why there are so many over simplified explanations.
I hate to rag on them, but so much of the criticism is surface level or mistaken. They'll tell you the context doesn't matter here and at the same time, they'll miss PLENTY of things that aren't over explained in episodes. You can't have it both ways.
I think how much you explain in media is really difficult. I've seen reactors across youtube miss the most simple things. Grown adults who are confused by things that many of us watched as kids and understood without issue, without having to pause and go back and watch it again (which wasn't an option at the time).
The criticism is always levied when they don't understand something or thing it is overexplained, but sometimes you have to step outside yourself and see the bigger picture. Sometimes writing does go too heavy handed, but a quick line here or there GENERALLY doesn't equate to bad writing.
Perfect example is the nitpick about Geordi not having pajamas in a previous episode but having fallen asleep in his uniform, but without his visor on. They didn't think it made sense, so did Geordi need to wake up and say, can't believe I fell asleep in my uniform again, for them to understand the circumstances?
This is a garbage episode, but I think the task here is to react to it honestly garbage and all. Talking about previous episodes ad naseum while missing parts of this episode, isn't a reaction to this episode. It's just being checked out. Love the constant straw man early about people thinking they pre-watch the episode, everyone can tell when one of them doesn't like the episode before the reaction wraps. You absolutely influence each other within the reaction. There is rarely an episode that one of them hates and the other loves while being loved or hated by the general community. That's what happens when you take pot shots at the episode as it unfolds or constant nitpick. It's human nature to agree in these cases.
/rant
@@TopGunZeroI gave you a thumbs up, as I pretty much agreed up to the point where you say it’s a “garbage episode.” Not sure what that’s supposed to mean, but if it’s a negative on the quality of the episode, I disagree. There are very few episodes I’d call that; almost every episode has *some* redeeming quality; probably part of why it’s a great series. Even the bad episodes are better than other series “good” episodes.
You have a bit of a point about them ragging on “over explaining,” then they completely miss something (maybe if the show had over explained that item?). :)
I can't wait to see how your perceptions of the ferengi change over time.
Yes, they'll hate them even more.
You guys cheered for Wesley. Don't deny it, he's starting to grow on you! 😆
"I don't know if I love this episode or hate it" -- why can't it be both? 🤷♂️
How is a reaction channel getting its own lore? And why am I so invested in it?
THE LORE! They definitely bring more to the table than other reaction channels.
@@greenbrown7776 Certainly something unique!
Haha love this episode. Sometimes you just want to watch a more light hearted one. And we get Wesley for another year 😂
Actually, for about another 10 episodes, I think.
17:00 "Inform Star Fleet we are on route ... for our rendezvous with the Zapata..." which is Spanish for "Shoe."
It's also the Name of a Famous Mexican Revolutionary! Emilano Zapata! .... Played by Marlon Brando in the film "Viva Zapata"
"Weird odd diaaster" Great description of the episode as a whole, really.
Anyone else reminded of Wayne's World when the Ferengi says, "Lwoxana Tori, you will be mine"?
To wander into the gossip column, it’s been said that (and I’m not confirming, but it sounds right just saying ) this episode was co-written by someone Gene was sleeping with, so that must’ve been fun for MBR when that info came out.
Ah this one is ok, a lighthearted bit of fun, with a hint of Roddenberry kink.
Fun enough in spite of the weaknesses.
This episode was savaged by the fan base when broadcast, leading to a shift in tone for future similar episodes (worded to try to avoid spoilers).
I love the Ferengi 2nd in this episode. Not the last time we'll see that actor, and not the last time he'll play a "Ferengi"
I think that, as a reward for saving the day... Give him one of Troi's season 1 "cheerleader" uniforms... For all the quality service he has given us so far... They did have men wearing them early on in season 1...
This episode is so stupid, but it’s worth it for Picard’s most EPIC of rescues!
This episode, starring Gene Rodenberry's former mistress, who at this time was his wife, was written by Susan Sackett, who at the time was Rodenberry's longtime mistress. So, totally not weird at all.
I didn't know Sackett was a long time mistress of Gene's,so I know he dated Nichelle Nichols at one time,was she also his mistress ???
@@user-be7tc2bd6e Yes, he saw both Majel and Nichelle at the same time while married to his first wife. In fact, he introduced the two of them to each other!
@@kwebb121765 WOW.I didn't know this,I'm wondering where did he find the time for all 3 women. LOL> And how his 2 side-chicks didn't know about each other ??? I'm assuming they both knew tho and why share the same married man ???
This is a fun episode! Lwaxana's bs about Picard at the end is frickin hilarious.
How far is combadge range? Could Wesley have just paged Data and said "hey check the interference pattern btw?"
The Picard meme ! I'd wondered which episode that had come from.
What a good actor Patrick Stewart is, his intonation in his dramatic phrases, my television vibrated.
I’d watch Captain’s Holiday over this any day!
I'll pass on both and give "Evolution" and Dr. Stubbs another whirl!
Me too.
@@dankoba1 I like them both.
Even as a longtime fan of the original Number One/Nurse Chaple, this wasn't too thrilling or engaging of an episode when it came out but it's grown on me as one in that, when done looking at my favorite episodes for the umpteenth time, its nice to have another visit to this era and one whose details I've long forgotten so can be almost new.
Patrick Steward bringing in his Shakespearean training into the Jean Luc Picard role in this episode!
Let's be honest here, Wesley's "suitcase" looks more like he's been given a pack lunch for kindergarten. Probably with an apple for teacher in it 😂
Best reaction of the episode: 8:57 😱😆
I enjoy this episode, it's a perfectly fine "filler" episode that has some fun moments and bit of light-hearted fun.
Naturally, it's no great episode, but it's enjoyable enough to bridge between great episodes.
I LOVE this episode! The comedy is perfect for me! Super rewatch material
Troi’s mom is the computer voice in TOS and TNG, is that right?
Yes, she's also Nurse Chapel
@@trickshotsmoviesandcubing2317 She's a computer voice in every ST TV series and movie right up until Star Trek (2009).
Also need to remember just how low the bar is for the lowest common denominator of early 90's TV audience. I used to think the same about why do they explain everything. Then I talked to more and more people lol
I wish I could say you're being unfair to the general populace. But you ain't!
Guys during this episode, Rodenberry came on set and gave Will Wheaton his lieutenant bars that he earned during World War II in a field promotion. Just thought you should know that.
I would I watch Captain’s Holiday and The Most Toys 4 times each before I rewatch this episode once :)
This is a top 10 episode for the series for me solely because of the Shakespeare scene at the end. It made a HUGE impression on me as a kid and never fails to crack me up to this day.
How to pronounce Lwaxana's name: Lou-walks-on-ah.
The writer of this episode was Susan Sackett, Roddenberry's assistant. Just so you know, TNG producers bought a LOT of spec scripts, so you're going to see many writers' names you don't recognize over the course of the series.
The voice I hear from one of the Ferengi sounds very familiar! 🤫🤫🤫
It's Johnny .... If You Know, You Know!
That opening skit was tremendous
At about 3:30, hey, that's the guy from Peak Performance in the background. Never noticed that before.
Mr. Homn is acctually the second actor who played Lurch in a production of Adams Family in Star Trek.
I love the little pro wrestling lingo ya'll throw into your discussions...it's hilarious. Keep up the great work gents!
Thanks! Will do!
I'm not a current fan, but I was even bigger into pro rasslin' than I was Trek in the 1970s. So I love it, too.
I'm glad that you are looking at this episode as "world and lore building" with Lwaxxana, Wesley, and the Ferengi (ears as erogenous zones). Other than that, I found this episode detestable. I like your points, though. Good job!
I grew up with TOS, but I absolutely love TNG. It's so consistently good, when I binge watch the series (about once every other year) there are only about 10 episodes I usually skip.
Those episodes include my least favorite antagonist, the Ferengi, and character, Mrs Troi.
So this definitely is not in my top 5. 😂
It's just meant to be a fun light hearted episode, sheesh guys, sometimes I think you're expecting a little to much out of episodic content.
I so hated this episode…even Wesley’s missed departure felt like Gilligan’s Island-he keeps almost getting outta there, but sacrifices himself to trap himself yet again. I hate almost all the Lwaxana episodes….the next one is an exception-very good one.
Did you notice the bridge has 4 chairs but in some episodes only 3
This episode is GREAT fun.
Lwaxana Troi seems to have two roles in the show to just find a husband and annoy her daughter. Majel Barrett just deserved better.
Majel was certainly capable of more I am sure, but she is a fun character in this role.
Yeah, keep waiting for The Andorians.
In Re: hating or loving this episode -- it's one of those situations where you have to take it on its on terms/as-intended. It's a comedy episode, the TNG version of the more humorous episodes that TOS had at times back in the day. Could it have been better written? Sure. But it was funny/fun for when it aired. The low-level campiness of it was appreciated when it aired almost 35 years ago in a way that doesn't "play" the same today.
We're almost there, people
As The Jackson used to sing/ask: Can you feel it? Can you feel it? CAN YOU FEEL IT?
Where?
Well that's how they filmed The Carol Burnett Show - twice. A "rehearsal" with an audience to get the kinks out and a "real show" with a different audience - then they took the best parts of each for the television version. Of course once Tim Conway was a regular it became you better get a good take the first time because he's going to destroy you once he adlibs off script for the second show - see The Elephant Story.
Your mission is to write the screenplay for an episode that gives Patrick Stewart the opportunity to deliver lines from Shakespeare in such a way that they make perfect sense in context.
Since you mentioned it, the director of this episode was Robert Legato, whose name you may recognize in the end credits since season one. He also directed another episode in season four which sees the return of Lt. Barclay.
Legato was one of TNG’s main VFX supervisors (alternating with Dan Curry).
He would go on to win three Oscars for supervising the VFX of movies like Apollo 13, Titanic, and The Jungle Book. He also has worked several times as VFX supervisor on many Martin Scorsese movies like The Aviator and Hugo.
The Corridor Crew has a couple of good videos with him talking about his career (including TNG).
czcams.com/video/dOhmMCRDdyA/video.html
Was one of those Ferengis the actor who played Neelix?
After watching the last episode of season 3 wait 3 or 4 months before starting season 4….that is how we felt watching the series in the original showing…
I've always said that the ending scene here with the camera work as Wesley walks around down to his station is perfection. It's comfort food with the whole crew being there as well. Wouldn't have minded if they would've swapped this episode and the next one in the timeline. Imagine that ending up against the season finale!!
A real delight once again, as always really, getting to watch Patrick Stewart quote stuff from Shakespeare! We all know how much Patrick Stewart must have loved it!
5:02 "Deanna Luanna Joanna Rosanna Hosianna Troi! Don't you DARE speak that way to your mother!"
That outfit that Troi's wearing at the end is from this season.
Civilian clothes in tng era trek is wither weird billowy clothes or outfits made of randomly patched together upholstery samples
Civilian clothes were definitely hit or miss. Usually miss. They did do a lot of bulge reveals, though, and I ain't complaining either.
This is very much a story building episode and just fun to watch enjoyed yals reaction !
"I don't know if I hate this episode or I love it" 😅 That's my feelings too, i think most people. I don't skip it on a rewatch, that's something.
I definitely skip it🙂
It's wonderful how this has not started and all you guys a throwing out spoilers
This is definitely one of the funnier episodes of this season. Two to go, from the CZcams PoV. I'm wondering what you guys think of the next two.
I think it was at least implied in "The Price" that Betazeds can read a Ferengi's mind, but in this episode they can't
From Memory Alpha's page for "The Price":
It is established in "Ménage à Troi" that the Ferengi brain cannot be telepathically read by Betazoids. However, in this episode, Counselor Troi declares that she can "sense DaiMon Goss' deception."
It's FUN! It's a fun episode.
I always remember the Shakespeare scene because of its inclusion in Dark Materia's Picard Song, which is purely made up of lines in the show, though the music video part of it does use scenes from some side stuff.
Maybe there is so much explanation because they are trying to appeal to a wider audience, including children? Just a thought.
Children aren’t stupid and shouldn’t be treated like they are
The viewership was not limited to a "fan base" of TREK fans. People back then weren't ponying up ten bucks a month to see these shows on a premium service. They were just running as part of a non-prime-time lineup, stuck between whatever sitcom or drama or action rerun or movie of the night or local sports team's ballgame was on the schedule. So the audience may have been wider but they weren't as deep in the sense of it being assumed that many of them knew or wanted to see TREK for any other reason than it was just "what's on at 7 on Satuday night."
@maxshenkwrites Very well explained especially for binge watchers in 2024 who weren't around in the 80s and 90s when this stuff was brand new.
It's just a fun comedic episode guys. Doesn't require any "racking of brains"
Interesting, so this is where "Oomox" & that the Ferengi are immune to telepathy was established. Continuity fans that you are, you'll be happy to know this isn't forgotten in the future.