Why do bells sound out of tune?
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Bells often sound of tune, but why? Are they really out of tune? Or is something else going on? Dive into the acoustics of bells with me and we'll uncover this mystery!
0:00 Intro
0:48 Piano Harmonics
1:54 Natural Harmonic Series
3:00 Bell partials (Bell overtones)
4:37 Comparing major & minor sounds
5:42 Stacking minor thirds (diminished chord)
6:24 Conclusion
This is the first video in a series I'm planning where I dive behind the scenes of the carillon. In future videos I'm hoping to cover more on acoustics, instrument design, performance techniques, arranging and composing, practicing, instrument maintenance, and more. Let me know what you'd like to hear about in the comments below!
Incorporated carillon footage:
Bach Cello Prelude: • Bach Cello Suite No. 1...
Ode to Joy: • Ode to Joy, Beethoven ...
Asturias (Leyenda, Albeniz): • Asturias (Leyenda) by ...
Tina Turner Tribute on bells (What's Love Got to Do With It): • Tina Turner tribute on...
Acknowledgements / reference videos:
- Those out of tune bells I referenced are from Zuidhavenpoort, NL. These are actually the oldest surviving bells from a forestroke (automatic hour melody). These are 16th century van den Gheyn bells. They're out of tune, yes, but they're amazing! • Carillon Zuidhavenpoor...
- Here's an AMAZING Video comparing the harmonic series to bell partials, that dives more into the phantom fourth (related topic): • Why Composers Love Bells
- Natural Harmonic Series graphic, adapted from Christophe Dang Ngoc Chan (cdang), CC BY-SA 3.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/b..., via Wikimedia Commons
- Bell partials compared to Natural Harmonic Series graphic, adapted from John Gouwnes, Playing the Carillon, an Introductory Method
Composing for carillon? Check out my video here • Composing for Carillon... and accompanying article newmusicusa.org/nmbx/composin...
Interested in supporting the channel? Consider becoming a channel member for just a few $ a month. Check out the offer by clicking the "join" button. - Hudba
I had a lot of fun making this, and I have some other ideas for behind-the-scenes looks at bells/carillons. Let me know what other questions you have or what you'd like to hear about!
I assume you were talking about diminished scales at the end of the video. Would love to hear that on bells
I would love to see a video about alternate bell tunings! I have read about major third-tuned bells but haven’t found any recordings.
Would love to know HOW the partials of bells are tuned. Are the forms modified and the bells recasted over and over or is the bell cast once and then milled to fine tune it?
I’m curious as to whether there’s some kind of optimal geometry involved in bell shapes. Also would love to know which music written specifically for bells or the carillon sounds the best, or least out of tune.
Does weather condition affect the tuning? For example if it is freezing cold, do the bells sound different?
For literally years it has always bugged me why bells sounded a bit off. Now I finally know why and hearing that diminished chord was an absolute joy! Thank you so much for sharing this!
Learn more about music. You could have known about these harmonics, too, if only you had searched it on CZcams or online.
No offence at all, often people got to live their life first.
it also comes form the size and the fact that it is usually around stuff, so it is not as clear as a normal instrument would be. rarely you have stairs and towers in your piano.
@@voornaam3191 learn more about talking to people lmao
@@voornaam3191dude literally is leaning more by watching this. You can't learn more without consuming content that teaches. You also can't learn anything before you learn it. So why hang shit on someone for learning something after you?
Really? You just happened to have a need for this exact explanation, yet didn't attempt to find out on your own?
Imagine an entire town listening to you demonstrating the bells to us!
You can hear the carillon for several blocks around it, but it's really not loud enough for even a whole small town's worth of people to hear. I mean... unless that town really is just a few or several blocks wide in one or both dimensions.
The city hall where I live, Sweden - Västerås, have one of these and it plays different melodies every hour that I hear while walking around between the shops and cafees on weekend together with some of my friends. It has always been a part of this place for me.
Much of the world has lost a sense of community, I think bells could bring that back.
There is a town in Tyrol Austria that has the largest outdoor pipe organ that can be heard across the town and beyond;
The Heroes’ Organ (“Heldenorgel”) at Kufstein Fortress is the largest free-standing organ in the world. It was built in 1931 by organ builder Oskar Walcker in the Citizens’ Tower at Kufstein Fortress to commemorate the dead of World War I. The original organ had two manuals. Extensive alterations were made to the organ in 1971, with the addition of a third and fourth manual; the organ then had 46 stops and 4,307 pipes. In 2009, the organ was comprehensively refurbished and extended to 65 stops and 4,948 pipes.
The sound created by this magnificent organ can be heard throughout the town. The organ is played daily at 12 noon to honour the war dead and to remind of peace. The play can be heard throughout the whole town and the surrounding areas.
@@johnpekkala6941Hey! I’m going to stockholm soon, any recommended places to visit? Thanks!
All that music theory I learned over the years (as an amateur and insufferable pedant), nothing was about bells.
Thanks for the informative video.
After you explained the partials, I pulled out my synthesizer, built a simple patch with those specifications, and it sounded right on. I've tolled tower bells before, but never had a chance to play the carillon, so this was pretty fun.
that's awesome!!
Man thank you so much for the idea, now I gotta try this!
If your synth has a ring modulator you could try modulating your primary oscillator with a second one tuned 32 half steps down, that creates an almost perfect minor third. Ring modulation = partial creation.
When you started explaining about the harmonics on the piano, I had a sudden urge to throw a bone into space in slow motion and see it turn into a spaceship.
Either I'm missing a reference or I'm having a stroke or you're having a stroke
@@thomapple The notes he played sounded like the start of Also Sprach Zarathustra, the classical music piece used in 2001: A Space Odyssey. In the movie an ape ancestor of humans discovers he can use a bone as a club. There's a scene transition in which he throws the bone club in the air and the scene dissolves into a spaceship flying through space.
@@Elriuhilu aah I see thanks for explaining!
@@thomapple No worries :)
Exploiting the harmonic series was Strauss’ intention. It starts out with perfect 5ths and 4ths- very simple interactions- then ends the phrases with major and minor chords, “evolving” into more complexity.
Wow, I knew bells had their unique partials but never saw anyone go in detail, so cool! I myself play frame drums that can have an open sound and a longer decay so drum partials is another interesting topic to me
I don't know much about drum partials, but I would be interested to learn more!
@@joeybrinkbells Yea, I need to get into it, I tried finding some articles but I mostly find physics, it's too much for my brain.
I found partials of a concert single headed tom in an article (ascending: b, [octave higher] a flat, b, e sharp, a flat, b flat...) and it looks not much like my (21" in diameter) Iranian daf frame drum.
It is tuneable (mine got 14 tuning screws!), I think my tuning is quite even.
I looked at it's frequencies and it goes something like (also ascending) g, f, c sharp, f sharp, b... also faint partials I ommited.
Fun fact: it's possible to play drums manipulating their partials with hands on them - see: Mohammad Reza Mortazavi, he plays this Iranian drum too
I like how everyone in town heard this video being made
Haha, most likely not everyone in the whole town, and not most of the video.
@@HelloKittyFanMan Thank you for acknowledging the Deaf and hard of hearing. Invisible disabilities often get ignored.
@@Barnaclebeard: I didn't acknowledge them specifically (as you may be able to read unless you're blind or just hard of seeing), but they would obviously be included, of course.
Also, "deaf" isn't a personal or brand name.
@@HelloKittyFanMan Hello my arrogant friend, it is nice to speak to you again. The word "deaf" with a small d is an affliction to the hearing. "Deaf" with a capital d is a culture. That is the correct spelling for Deaf culture, with a capital d. It seems you are not the fucking know-it-all that you think you are.
@@HelloKittyFanManThe Deaf community is capitalized. " Many people in the Deaf community prefer use of a lowercase “d” to refer to audiological status and the use of a capital “D” when referring to the culture and community of Deaf people. The National Association of the Deaf has not taken a definitive stand on this issue."
This is hands down the best explanation of the physics behind harmonics I have ever seen! Simple, concise, and the perfect blend of science and art. Thank you!
So that's why diminished chords sound so good on bells!
wow that diminished arpegio sounds so good on bells compared to piano ! i never liked bells for anything more than one to three note motifs but this really opened my mind to the possibilities that are out there
Not sure why I got recommended this, but it was interesting! I think this discussion is specific to bells with the classic bell shape, though. I grew up hearing a handbell choir in my church and I was shocked by the difference when they switched to more "modern" handbells that had a spring-mounted rubber ball that hit a metal "tongue" supported on one side. These bells, due to their simple geometry, produce a sound much closer to a pure sine wave than classical bells (or even a piano), making the tune a lot clearer and easier to hear.
Love to hear Joey spreading bell knowledge. Really well edited and well written!
Thank you!
I used to work as a pipe organ tuner and one of the instruments that we serviced was the organ at Ocean Grove, NJ. This is in an auditorium with no heating or cooling so every time they were going to have a performance, we would have to do a quick retuning of the instrument since every time the temperature changes, it goes out of tune from the thermal expansion/contraction of the pipes. More specifically, the brass reeds would change more than the lead flue pipes. However, since it's a lot easier to retune a flue pipe and there are a lot less of them, we whould de-tune the flue pipes to match the reed pipes.
On top of the Metropolitan life tower in NYC is a clock and bronze bells, and they played Westminster every quarter hour, there was always one bell that sounded much louder than the other like the hammer was hitting harder. Mind you the bells were up on around the 49th floor, but they are large bells and could be heard quite a distance! My dad called me from a payphone one day, and as we talked I could hear the bells in the background, so I knew where he called from LOL! they were that loud but the one bell was considerably louder than the others.
Sadly, the building was converted to condos and they permanently shut the bells off because residents didn't want to heard them.
I'm so happy to have watched this video! For years I've wondered why church bells focused on the minor 3rd and diminished 5th. Thank you!
According to old world logic, church bells do in fact sound fairly satanic lol
I guess that's why church bells are used for melancholy or creepy soundscapes, because of that inherent minor sound
Now, I've never taken any music theory classes or physics classes for that matter but walking away from this video I don't think I have ever understood sound better. Great video, great information, and excellent delivery. Keep it up! Subscribed.
I remember watching something -- probably on PBS or somewhere like that -- ages ago where someone had tried turning bells with a different profile that gave them that major third overtone. They looked pretty weird compared to the normal sloping profile of a regular bell, but the sound was instantly recognizable as a major sound. I don't know what happened to that project; I mean, it's not like anyone's making new carillons every week, so if there were a new bell profile, it would hardly take over the world quickly. I just wonder what the status of that project is, and whether any new bell-turning profiles have ever been used.
Yes!! There are a couple of major-3rd bell installations in the world, notably Crystal Cathedral in California. Intereatingly, the major 3rd bell sound never really caught on; people seem to prefer minor 3rds in their bells(!), so the quest for major 3rd bells kind of fizzled out about 25 years ago.
@@joeybrinkbells It might be for that spooky old timey medieval feel. It could have uses but I'd imagine changing tunings between major and minor bells wouldn't work well.
@@joeybrinkbells Thanks for mentioning Crystal Cathedral; I just looked up a video on them and indeed the bells have a sort of Sutton-Hoo-helmet shape that's really interesting. I'm guessing that you'd play different pieces on a major 3rd carillon; they Harry Potter theme would probably sound great on yours, but maybe less so on that one.
Good afternoon, Mr Brink (It's me again). Thanks for taking the time to explain it, I like the explanation! It's pretty simple and easy to understand.
Glad to hear!
@@joeybrinkbells Thanks. You know what I also like to hear? Your voice. No joke, it's really sooth and calming to hear you explain something.
this is amazing info. i've messed with additive synthesis and related things for much of my life at this point, always thinking about acoustic instruments along the way, and there's still so much to grasp about them. for one the "hum tone" is a compele shock--i'd always been informed that subharmonics don't exist except electronically or as a theoretical indulgence.
I know! The hum tone is mind-blowing! One way around this is to define the fundamental an octave lower, so the fundamental IS the hum tone. But the problem here is that the strike tone is clearly an octave higher than the hum tone, so carillons define the strike tone as the fundamental
Man, when I finally understood it I was like: 'That rings a bell'
Banned.
Another thing to consider is the Bell's geometry and how waves and fractions of waves fit into that space. The tapering that happens between the large and small radius is what leads to most of the overtones you covered
seeing a visualisation of the wavefront would be interesting
One of my favourite things when change ringing is ringing the bells down in rounds. They get faster and faster as the period of swing decreases, with the sounds all blending together until the main sound is the hum tones, not the strike notes.
When being fancy, at the very end, we miss a swing, then attempt to stop the bells still with one catch. This produces one last loud round of strike notes against the background hum. It's most beautiful to listen to, and great to perform.
I was not aware about your video, but just about 2 days after the upload date of this video I was searching for bell samples for my project, it made me think about that out of tune striking sound to the in tune ringing sound and ways to simulate it. I was watching everything from church bells, gregorian ones, chinese gongs, indian temple bells and also Wintergatan's Marble Machine song played on the church bell organ which I learnt was called the carillon, and also I think I have also seen you before in a Rob Scallon video. I found your vidoe recommended today. Thanks for the upload.
I never once thought to imagine a bell as a 3 dimensional wave function, but it makes so much sense! Fascinating video, I'm obsessed with acoustic physics
Fascinating! My morning alarm is bells, so I've been wondering this for years... Awesome video!
Really nice job of explaining this. I'm not very good at physics, but this illustrated the phenomenon of harmonics really well.
For some instruments, the more carefully you listen to them in a piece, the more you will enjoy the music. I've always found bells to be one of the exceptions. But thanks to your video, I have a new way to listen closely to the bells and still enjoy the music even more: understanding how the bells' harmonics shape the arrangement. Unless, of course, someone just takes a piano arrangement and feeds it directly to the bells. Then we're back to nails on a chalkboard.
Wow. Diminuitas song so perfect in bells. Never thought about it.
I'm so glad you actually played the diminished chord! Thanks mate very good! 👏👏
Thanks.
I had wondered this.
I play (typically) the C3/D3 bells in our local handbell choir.
Thank you! Every year I get back to my sheet music and some day I will finish a piece for church bells! Really fascinating instrument to compose for. I live one street away from a carillon in the Netherlands. Hearing the programmed music every 15 minutes plus live concerts twice a week is a privilege.
I was checking out a video about large bells in the world and also thought to myself: these bells sound like they're in minor! This is very badass! Thank you for the explanation
A master class on harmonics! Well done. At a young age I understood I enjoyed listening (as opposed to just hearing). I slowly became an audiophile. I met a man who became a good friend who taught me to listen to the space between the notes. A whole new world opened up. When we listen to understand rather than just hear, our brain connections multiply exponentially.
Fascinating insights. Thank you. Without knowing any of this, I've not felt that bells were off, or out of tune, but that they had their own "flavor". Now I know a little bit more about that flavor. 😊
Absolutely fascinating. Thank you!
Absolutely fascinating. Thank you.
Very interesting ! Your explanation is very clear ! Thanks !
Fascinating, thank you!
I had always heard that sub-harmonics don't exist in nature (at least that was Moogs assertion)! This is such an awesome explanation of what's happening with bells!
I'm from a little town outside Viennas and the Church bells ring a few times a day but on weekends even more.lol I live about 300 meters away from the church and I love the Bells even though they will rattle you out of bed on Sunday at 8am or 7 even., I lay in bed sometimes and listen to them very intensely and my question for years is why are they outta tune.lol This just tells me I was hearing it correctly. Great video thank you so much, for letting me know I'm not crazy!
Fascinating. Thanks.
Thanks for that wonderful insight!
Great vid. Thanks!
Interestingly, the harmonic series is also seen in the different ranks of the organ. The concert pitch rank is the 8' pitch, where the low C is 8' long. Then you go up an octave to the 4' pitch. Up a fifth to the twelfth at 2 2/3', then up a fourth to the superoctave/fifteenth at 2', then the 1 3/5' seventeenth is up a third.
Awesome video! Top quality and I learned something totally new!
Ive wondered about this for so long! Thank you!
You explain this SO WELL. And sweet playing, too.
Great video, very enlightening
Great explanations, thanks!
I had never stopped to think about this, super cool!
OMG I was cooking some music last week and tried to incopore a bell sound in it and I kept scratching my head why it was so out of tune !!! THANK YOU A LOT
That was really cool and informative. Thanks a lot!!
Amazing video! This was really interesting to learn
I live in Bruges, a city that also has a carillon. I never felt like the bells sound out of tune. Different than a piano, trumpet or whatever? Yes. Out of tune? Nope. Whenever I walk around in the city center and I hear the bells (doesn't matter if it's a person playing or the quarterly tunes), I wait where I am, listen and enjoy. I simply love their sound!!!
The city also has a mobile carillon, mainly used for the Procession of the Holy Blood. And while its range is of course nowhere near the tower full of bells, it too sounds very nice. Whenever I hear bells, IRL in the city, in another city, via internet, I get the feeling of being home, and at rest. Thanks for your channel, and showing some more ins and outs!
Thanks @mvl8209! I love Bruges, and have played a few concerts in the belfry there years ago. I'll be concert touring Belgium this summer, and was invited to play in Bruges again but unfortunately already had a concert booked that day. Anyway - I find that people that grew up near bells (especially carillons) don't find the sound out of tune or unusual at all, as the sound really becomes a part of you, but those that are newer to bells (and carillons) can find the sound a bit strange at first. Thanks for sharing!
@joeybrinkbells too bad you can't come to Bruges this year, but awesome that you've played here before!! I wonder if one of the many times I was anywhere in hearing range of the belfry and enjoyed, if it was ever you :D
Great video,
thank you sir!
Very informative and enjoyable.
This was super interesting, thanks!
This was a wonderful lesson.
Thanks for the explanation! 🙂
Interesting topic well presented. Thank you for the lesson.
Thanks for sharing this. I knew it was due to the harmonics, but this helped with the details.
There is a bell maker who makes bells with a certain major harmonics instead of the usual harmonics series.
Such different bells are interesting, playing music that was not specially writen for bells.
Awesome explanation.
Awesome video!
I'd always assumed it was because of the harmonics but it had never occurred to me to think that a bell vibrates as a 3D object.
I'm English so we do change ringing here and carillons are non-existent (or at least extremely rare) but the strange sound of bells compared to most other instruments is just as apparent.
That was absolutely fascinating. Thank you.
I learned some thing cool today! Thanks!
i always wondered this! thank you so much for this video
That was extremely interesting, well done and thank you
Fascinating, I've always loved carillons.
This is a brilliant explanation! Thank you so much! I love the science of music and this is incredibly well-explained.
While I knew the physics on strings, I never thought that bells are that different.
Also the fact organs are mostly only the base tone, it''s easy to simmulate some other instruments on them.
Thank you,Joey.
Nice, thank you for this insight! love nerding abouth those things!
This was the best explanation I've ever heard. I've always been interested in bells, particularly wind bells. Always wondered why some sound so much better than others. Now I know.
Incredible video. I was never aware of the the different harmonic overtones of bells or any other overtone series at all.
Instant sub!
Thank you, that was new, interesting and well done!
this was really interesting, thank you!
Thank you for posting this. I have always wondered about it, but never provoked so much curiosity that I would search why.
Your love for bells made my heart ring.
Thanks so much for this clear and concise explanation of bell harmonics! I learned alot, and that means everything!
Oh wow this was really interesting to hear! I already knew that the overtones were the cause of the bells sounding 'off', but never knew what the partials themselves were. Thanks a lot for this!
Ive been wondering this for so long!!! Thank you for explaining this so clearly :)
Very instructive and well put video ! Keep it up Joey !
thank you :-)
GREAT video!
Wow. I thought I did not like the sound of bells. Now I know I just do not like when they play the wrong scale. What an eye-opener!
Mate this is fascinating! Great video.
Today I leanred something valuable. Thanks for the insight!
You killed it. Fantastic video.
Oh wow this is so interesting! I've always wondered this but I never would have guessed it was due to a different harmonic series entirely!! Thanks for sharing ❤
the algo has blessed you. thanks for this lesson even i, a non musician, could understand.
So glad I got this in my recommendations! This info will come in handy when synthesizing bell-like sounds.
Thanks so much!
Wow that is so interesting, I never would have thought about what a minor 3rd based overtone series would sound like
This is one of the best videos I've ever watched, thank you for this!
This is an excellent accessibel explanation!
Finally! After wondering about this, albeit on a not fully conscious level, for more than a half-century, I understand why bells sound the way they do. I would like to have delved a bit more into the physics of why bells do this, however. Something about their shape not having a beginning or an end, perhaps?
it's all about the shape, the profile, though exactly which parts of the bell sound which partials gets quite complex!
@@joeybrinkbells Oh, right! With a string, for instance, you really only have the length as a parameter but with a bell you have a fully three-dimensional shape that produces different wavelengths with different attenuation profiles. That seems to make sense! Thanks!
I’ve always wondered this..
Thank you.
Excellent explanation. A proper mix of physics and music.