The Witcher 3 Hearts of Stone Critique
Vložit
- čas přidán 23. 09. 2018
- A critique and analysis of the first dlc for The Witcher 3, Hearts of Stone.
Further Watching:
Superbunnyhop's very good video on hearts of stone that details the influence of the polish film pan twardowski.
• The Witcher 3: Hearts ... - Hry
The worst part of HoS was lack of possibility to challenge Gaunter O'Dim to the game of Gwent in the final battle
Mostly cause he knew he'd get his ass beat by Geralt's bomb-ass spy deck.
@@fuzzydunlop7928 decoy volleyball
@@stefan4191 *laughs in Avallah card*
I went, "Fuck yes, I don't get an insta-lose." Because I haven't done any Gwent, and playing anyone is a guaranteed loss.
I disagree with you about the ending. As in any game there is only one choice. To RP or not.
i really loved when Gaunter O'Dimm theme played in blood and wine
🥄 🥄 🥄
@@thanevakarian9762 I really couldn't think of a better response lol... Pretty sure my facebook page had that as it's banner, dunno if I ever changed it lol haven't logged in, in years, but I do remember putting it up there at one point lol, Probably one of my favorite scenes in a video game... pushing right ahead of Richard B Riddick shovin that hairpin through Micheal Forbes's neck... Though it's telling to the quality of the virtual camera work and animation that I think the end of the mountain fight on the cliff, as well as the scene the lead to it in Kher Moren with Ves and Ciri trails really close... Just thinkin bout the last one still kinda tears me up a bit, everything came together so fucking well from sound, cuts and pacing to build such an emotional and sensory bomb...
I really do hope CDPR get's out of this mess they made, regardless, I could probably count three maybe studios that could even compete on that character, emotional, and dialogue level (counting former starbreeze as Machine Games in that... so they get credit for the hairpin, earned in full)
Yes! No horror game has scared me as much as that moment. When I heard that music I just wanted to run run run away.
I remember finding that moon temple before i even started the HoS quests,and being confused by nothing being there, because that place clearly was important.
I felt the same way. Had a seriously significant feeling to it.
had a similar experience with the vegelbud mansion, found the dead woman tied to bed but i couldnt do anything
yep, there was a witcher contract on some royal monster in nearby cave. bad placement. would have been more impactful if u never knew that place existed.
The character development was crazy, I went from "Hell yeah mirror man lets teach this immortal prick some manners" at the beginning to to "Oh fuck this mirror chump is literally the devil lets kick his ass" towards the end.
i love in the time freeze in the bar Gaunter O' Dimm kills a man is a brutal way, but also uses it as an opportunity to put a fly in another mans soup. True chaotic evil
Hmm I see Gaunter as more lawful evil. Being polite, honest, and wanting everyone to abide by the terms of his contracts. He is akin to devils from Dungeons and dragons who try to get people to sign their infernal contracts for possession of their soul once the terms have been met
@@andrewvincent7299 he's literally the devil bro....
@@lovablesnowman Right!?! Course last time some one came at Geralt with a Morning-star, well... shoulda known Satan ain't got shit on our boy. Gotta say though, Lucie-O'Dimm as a villain and a character genuinely gave me chills like I can't ever remember in a video game... the presentation was so proper, polite, casual, and smiling... yet every moment was framed so well so to raise the hair on the back of the neck regardless... Blood and Wine was such a disappointment in contrast.
I really wish they had released that one first, the 8 hours of this just highlighted how good CDPR can write and craft and bring to fruition Characters and stories... and BaW just felt like casual Friday by comparison and in contrast back to back it just disappoints (without being... well... objectively bad, just not good like this...) almost unfair to even compare them... kinda like how I had just seen Children Of Men the day before watching The Departed and kinda couldn't give a shit about it or help the contrast*...
*(I do like the movie, looking back and knowing more about Whitey makes the movie a better movie... just don't watch A movie like Children of Men for the first time before watching it... that applies to alot of movies though.)
The way he inserts it is the most grotesque part. It was such a matter of fact act. I think that was why it was so chilling. No emotion in it
I miss the term "Expansion Pack". That's basically what this in a classic sense(aside from being a digital purchase only). The two DLC's of Witcher 3 are pretty much what expansion packs use to be in the 90s and early 2000s. A 20 to 25 hour story that takes place after the main game that added new features, new enemies, and a new storyline and was usually 20 to 30 dollars. Not the bullshit 15 dollar dlc crap that gives you only 5 hours of new content.
@@CrowofYharnam "Abe's Exoddus"
@@CrowofYharnam Dragon Age Awakening, Fallout New Vegas dlc, Baldurs Gate 2, Hell even Bethesda with the Elder scrolls franchise. If you are saying we don't see anymore this kind of effort and passion put into extra content I agree, but this used to be the norm for videogames; whole campaigns that added full new stories, locations and mechanics. Gotta love CD Projekt for still doing this.
Andrew Vincent Expansion pack is not the same as an expansion for a game. The latter has considerably more content
@@CrowofYharnam Monster Hunter World had an expansion pack called Iceborne earlier this year.
HOS & B&W > Shivering Isles
It didn’t happen when I played it, but I love that you can ask O’Dimm about how to find ciri, and he’ll give you hints about how to save her life. It feels like the most geralt-like thing to ask for.
“Scenes from a marriage” in HoS is by far the best quest line I’ve ever played in a video game. The epic storytelling, character development and visuals is gaming at its absolute best.
it's also a name of a movie
I personally really liked the side quest in which you find out what happened to the Order of the Flaming Rose. They were very important in the Witcher 1, and did appear (albeit briefly) in the Witcher 2, so their absense in the base game of the Witcher 3 felt strange to me. I was glad to see the loose end of what happened to them tied up; I was actually surprised to see how far they had fallen. However, for people who hadn't played the Witcher 1, that quest probably wouldn't mean much.
Fill me in. What's the tldr on the flaming flower
@@trompell0 Basically, they turned into drug dealers.
I can't specifically put my finger on what interests me so about Olgierd. He's not blameless, nor all to blame. He's monstrous in his ways, but his past sheds light on why he became the way he did. Does it justify his actions? The abhorrent way in which he was with Iris or her family? Hardly in it's entirety, but it left me feeling a deep, dark worry that, if presented with the same circumstances, would I not do the same?
Olgierd, thus, is one of the pinnacle characters I've ever interacted with. I adored, and indeed still adore, every moment of his story. This is just my opinion, of course, others find him bland and tedious and don't spare a second wondering on what his fate should be. For me, however, that timer on whether or not to intervene the first time around filled me with genuine panic and quick thinking.
Anything that makes me feel that in any way is worth my interest.
He's charismatic and intense, which makes you like him and want to let him off the hook.
@@aliciaaltair I doubt many players actually liked Olgierd as he clearly a reprehensible person but I sided with him bevause he's fighting the literal devil.
Yeah, that was my only point of criticism with HoS. It's way too in favor of saving Olgierd because you're throwing him to the literal devil otherwise.@@lovablesnowman
This questline of HoS if probably one of the greatest and best questlines ever made in video game history.
O'dimm, Olgierd and Iris and all the other characters around it make it just so good. This is the one thing HoS did way better then BW. Storytelling and characters. And I do agree about the risk thing at the ending of the questline. But nothing is without flaws.
I mean that's the real thing here, Witcher 3 does a lot of things competently, acceptably and even really well in the video game land world but what CD project does probably better than anybody else, and I'm trying to think of comparisons and outside of like rare rare moments in crpg land or a really more like adventure game Land.. and these are rare just even in that, story characters and dialogue.. and just the dialogue in the characters more than anything is all you need the way that the format works with video game.. I feel like that's why blood and wine was so fucking disappointing because it wasn't bad at all but it wrote on the shoulders of this which is pretty much as good as it gets or at least so far, I haven't played disco Elysium yet... I just remember taking an hour to get into a chair after I broke my back in 2011 so I could play Witcher 2 for the 20 or 30 minutes I could stand to sit and that feeling I got when I had played vampire the masquerade bloodlines where it's like a holy shit this this can be done somebody did it, in fact even more so because it was popular unlike bloodlines which pretty much dropped off a cliff until 10 years later.
And for all the BioWare bullshit out there, that's that's for video game they know their audience and their audience loves them for it I mean fuck, Bethesda with Oblivion and Skyrim managed to get Max von sydo and Patrick Stewart to both drop terrible dialogue, and people love them for their story or whatever the fuck I don't know these aren't my people obviously.. actually they are and I think about it but you know what, taste and entertainment is not the highest quality in a friend LOL that you should look for it it's just a nice it's a bonus..
the standards are so low in this industry even with how much better it's gotten, so when you see something like this where you're on the level of of what it can be it it's inspiring and maybe a little depressing because you just don't see it that much... But this is this is the skill set of CD project they have a pretty good skill set at creating living worlds at this point, like they know what it should be but they really know what characters should be and how dialogue should flow.. and they didn't have bad in the story department either, I really have to separate those but it's it's a it's a less of a separation with video games because the character interaction and the dialogue are far more important when you are playing a role the stories yes it's important but considering a video game is how you get there.. characters and dialogue are exponentially more important.
To be honest, blood and wine felt like an Ubisoft game more than any other CD project title because of the the back seat that the characters took to the creating a new piss colored world LOL got it took me so long and reshade to figure out how to counter that LOL. I think that the big mistake and I probably would have appreciated blood and wine a lot more is if it had come out first.. like thematically that doesn't quite make sense this the order of the stories works better as a volume with blood and wine being the last one, but at the same time you you should finish strong and I feel like they finished flat and it may have been a higher flat than most things get to but it it definitely peaked here.
Completely disagree about blood and wine, it was exactly what did should be, ya sure the writing was weaker but the open world was incredible, and seeing someone say blood and wine was disappointing makes no sense based off what it offers, but hey Witcher is best known for its S tiers story’s and characters, blood and wine of the three probably has the weakest story, still good though, and the characters were all great
@@jakedill1304 I think with blood and wine they really wanted to change the darker atmosphere of the previous Geralt outings considering it's his endgame. They wanted Geralt to settle in what could be the closest to a happy ending.
While I get that it isn't as complex. Blood and wine puts in major work in terms of simply the content. And the scale of the story surely helps there.
The team at cdpr knew what they were doing. And I was empty after blood and wine. If a game can make that happen, then it's succeeded in my eyes.
Holy hell dude, just found your content and I am BLOWN AWAY. What a thoughtful, well articulated analysis. I've seen a lot of Witcher retrospectives on CZcams, and yours are EASILY the most well developed.
Bravo, and subbed.
I never understood why they changed lithuanian Witold's name into russian Vlodimir in english version of the game. Olgierd and his family are clearly inspired by polish-lithuanian literature figure - Andrzej Kmicic. They both share passion and lust for a woman they cannot have. They are also ruthless and unruly, so their lives teaches them humbleness.
I would have LOVED a possible ending where geralt loses to o'dimm and is damned to give over his soul when he dies one day - it doesn't have to be seen in game, but knowing that he is destined to lose his soul to evil incarnate adds a huge weight to everything that happens in B&W and we will never know if he will find a way out of the contract, or if gaunter even goes through with it
I chose not to intervene and I chose to not have any reward from him, maybe they shouldn't have gave us that choice, to save or let olgierd die, or maybe they should've made the riddle feel more like you're playing in the hands of gaunter, even if you win, you don't feel like you won against gaunter, instead, you'd feel that you entertained him.
The Toad fight was undoubtedly the hardest fight in the game. It was probably the only time I struggled in the game (including both DLCs) and I exclusively play on Death March
Depends on whether you chose to fight him or not, but I found the fight with Olgierd when you chose to stop him from murdering the owner of the manor they burned was much harder than the toad.
@@michielecker this. i tried a few times, but eventually had to give up and let that slide. begrudgingly.
@@michielecker i actually managed to defeat Olgierd underleveled by swaying until I got to his back and stroke. I repeat it for like 20 mins.
@@michieleckerfun fact, that guy isn't the manor's owner. He's one of Olgierd's dudes and he actually KILLED the lord of the manor, which led to the scenario we find him in. He's killing one of his own guys for insubordination (you see him cause trouble in the first scene, which he's warned for)
I will say your big thing about his final riddle being "too easy" is highly subjective - not to say that it wasn't too easy for you. From running D&D I've found that riddles are either extremely easy or extremely difficult with no real way to determine which it will be for you. However I felt like it was very thematically relevant because as you said, Gaunter is an entity more focused on tricking people than anything else to prove his superiority. In this case, it is totally plausible that he made this simply because he knew that people are less likely to get it - that then he can turn it around and say "it's so easy," and laugh when they die. It is, as you said, an illusion of fairness, but one he underestimated.
Ngl. As much as I love the main story of this dlc, the way it throws Shani at you over and over again really frustrates me.
Especially since due to the level requirement you’re generally playing it after you’ve already completed the main romance.
There are reasons why this dlc is so good. It avoids 2 of main game's mistakes: reliance on the books' material (which leads to subpar plots, since books have already met their conclusion, and overuse of book characters), and reliance on open world, since all its content takes place in a very small region that requires very little traveling, and it's all quests, quests, quests tightly packed together instead of adding new areas.
And this is why I consider the next one to be way, way worse.
even though I find your main story complaint dog shit :D but I like your enthusiasm toward this super DLC
I easily get immersed in games, so I was actually terrified by Gaunter O Dimm. I was so nervous, that I knew before the final meeting, that I'd rather stay on his good side.
I sided with O'dimm. I like his character more and just didn't think it was a good idea to get on his bad side in the long run.
Same. Me roleplaying as Geralt I couldn't care less about Olgierd. Ofcourse his fate is a tragedy but Geralt's only goal is to get out of this whole mess with GOD and get to Ciri safe and sound.
And he has a badass theme☝️
@@Stelo29 Plus Olgierd isn't really worthy of redemption at that point because of all that he had done. The amount of pain he caused for his own selfish desire earned him his fate at the hands of Gaunter. I don't buy the notion that Gaunter manipulated that whole thing. At the end of the day, Olgierd still had free will and made so terrible and evil choices before Gaunter was ever in the picture
gaunter pulled geralt in all this mess and he has to pay, but the first time i chose not to intervene
His name tells you everything.
'Gaunter' isn't an adjective, it's a noun: one who makes you gaunt. And "O'Dimm" as in 'of the dim'.
His name is literally 'The bringer of hunger who comes out of the dark'.
Well, it tells us a rough outline. Certainly isn't very illuminating, except to show that there is darkness.
Wow, that’s really reaching out for meaning. Not to mention it sounds dumb as hell.
@@misaeltoral508 It's not reaching. That's the literal interpretation of the name, knowing the names of types of words and how they're used isn't exactly a interpretive feat it's the building blocks for language. To think that the devs wouldn't impart meaning in the name itself is incredibly silly - especially considering we already know they did just that with his initials, for whatever they meant by it.
I thought it was more of an acronym for GOD
@@Tuldoka It can be both
This DLC seemed almost perfect for me. I even liked it more than original game.
"We know we can defeat Gaunter somehow because we know this is a game, and games always let us win."
Well, unless the game is by Yoko Taro, anyway. Imagine if the tradeoff to saving Olgierd was that Gaunter deleted all your save data.
Would be very effective consequences but it would enrage so many. Maybe he just threatens you and makes it looks like your saves are gone briefly ha
When taking the choice to help Olgeird I was so immersed I chose not to. I felt he was responsible for getting himself into this mess and I felt fear for my life as the player, so much I didn't even take a reward the first time around. Only then I realized that damn its just a game and started trying all choices, even saving Olgierd. But since I didn't like the rewards for saving him I ended up going for that sweet demonic roach
My rationale for intervening was little to do with saving Olgierd. More that, by this point, Geralt was so entangled with Gaunter, he could only ever be free from his influence by somehow defeating him.
Best story in any game...with exception to maybe Zelda: Majora's Mask (although I love them both for similar reasons; dark, enigmatic villains and for finding hope in tragedy).
The choice at the end is dictated on whether you talk to the Professor or not. If you don't, then Geralt doesn't learn of the option to play Gaunter at his own game and thus that final choice is not offered (Gaunter takes Olgierd's soul and gives you a reward by default). I think this is a good way to make that ending choice feel more in character. Geralt learns that Gaunter can be beaten and being the highly-trained monster-slayer he is; will of course try to beat the monster that is Gaunter.
Please don't mention Zelda when talking about Witcher jfc you're a cringey fuck
@Dragon50275 "monsters" you mean silly cartoons lmao
Desiree Kabwe you’re that guy that left that dumbass comment on the last analysis he did for the main game.
Get your head out your ass and stop fanboying over the game. We all think it’s amazing but nothing’s perfect, and you’d have to be an idiot to think otherwise since nothing is truly perfect
@@CrowofYharnam yo what you on about mate, you can see that zelda has influenced the witcher games either directly or indirectly
@@stanners1714 everything except Neon Genesis Evangelion
Although you can get one that's SIMILAR to the outfit that von Everec wears over the course of this story, I really wish that you could have obtained the EXACT outfit that he wears. After the addition of Blood and Stone, around my third play through, I took to wearing casual clothes here and there in the game world or at particular parts of the story. Especially when I was lounging in or around the villa you obtain. It's a shame that I was never able to feel as "dressed to the 9's" as von Everec was.
Although, being able to get his sword if you save his life in the end was a hell of a consolation prize!
I hate Gaunter O’Dimm because his name is so similar to mine. As a character, though, I love him
Actually Gaunter O'dimm is all powerful but restrains himself for the lols, you should look at the video from Witcher George on this
Hearts of stone might be the greatest DLC I’ve ever played and Scenes from a Marriage might be the greatest quest I’ve ever played
I appreciate the effort you put into this video. Thank you.
This and Fallout 4 far harbor are the best dlcs I’ve ever played. Great video and analysis as always. It’s really interesting to see how many different emotion responses there have been to these characters in the comments.
want to point out one something you said "... *perhaps* his heart of stone wasn't given by gaunter o'dimm, but himself"
this isn't a perhaps, its explicitly said by o'dimm that he never gave him the heart of stone, that was simply the by-product of the shit he wanted.
This is my second time watching your Witcher 3 videos and I'm blown away by how high quality and well thought out they are, way better than most video essays I've seen. You deserve way more views, keep pushing and you'll blow up. Also I normally hate CZcams comments that say this but you have a very calming voice lol
Me: Hears intro.
Me: Fine have my soul, take it! *Throws soul into screen* .
This is great👌❤.
Amazing critique!
As to your observation about the heist being the weakest quest, I recommend doing it before the wedding, it does have a much nicer pace overall
Well, the HoS was quite clever and very atmospheric. The characters were cool (did anybody else think that Everec looked like David Beckham?), the whole thing superbly produced. But in the end it was a loose adaptation of an existing IP - the polish legend of Pan Twardowski. And I loved it. Cheers!; ] Btw, your talks are really great, man; ]
BROTHER GERALT, I KNEW YOU'D COME
gaunter o' dimm, who with but a whisper could swell a wave, start a chain of events with consequences momentous. the best antagonist/villain in a video game
Keep up good work! I love every video
I'll do my best, thanks for the support.
Olgierd reminds me of Dorian Gray a little bit
He's way more like Faust, but yeah, I can see tinges of Dorian in there, especially with Iris' love of painting.
best game of all time. hands down.
I'm listening to this while playing Stardew Valley and I keep finding rusty spoons. It is creeping me out at this point. D:
Really enjoy your work man. Slowly been making my way though your content. I love thoughtful discussion of games. Your skill definitely is definitely on par with the best who do this. I'm actually quite surprised that with the number of successful videos you've had that you're not larger. But all things in time. As I watched you over the last year I can see the obvious traction that you're gaining with this audience. Wild to me when I see a video like this, equal quality to the top tier videos of its like kind but with fractional views in comparison. Exciting of course because it reminds me of the worth seeking out people on CZcams by skill and not numbers. There's so much quality to find here on CZcams of people would only look. I run a podcast perhaps it'd be better to message you directly but I'll say it here first, I'd love to have you on for a conversation. In the meantime, all the best and take care.
excellent video, as always!
I loved this story and the charisma everything in it exuded. The Witcher had made me incapable of appreciating most other computer RPGs, their writing is simply unmatched yet, and the level of presentation, facial expression fidelity and cinematic cutscenes... being able to tell a computer character feels a certain way from a flinch of its eyebrows, seeing Olgierd's danger brewing as he squints in composed anger, or feeling how tired Iris is of being in pain from the wrinkles in her brow... truly wonderful storytelling all around. It will be a while since we see something like it again. We've been spoiled.
Very good work, thank you.
“Deadlines are very real and lead to cut content of some kind” as you put MGSV in the picture... damn... that hits too much. Here’s to you, boss
Gaunter O'Dim remind me a lot of Q from star trek, two almost omnipotent being toying with human because it amuse them.
Q didn't murder people for his own amusement
There is no man nor monster scarier than gaunter odimm in the game
This is my favourite dlc of all time. The story fits the world just right and I loved the fact that I had remembered gaunter in the beginning of the game. It was like he was always meant to be there
I found the base game a real chore to get through, and I was a little reluctant to jump into the dlc after I finished it. But Hearts of Stone is amazing, and my opinion of the game was dramatically more positive after I played it. It's up there as one of the best expansion packs ever made.
I disagree heartily that the shitty writing standards of video games is ingrained in the medium - rather it's ingrained in the industry. If a studio WANTED to put story first, they could - but they don't. Films are a collaborative effort, everyone from editor to screenwriter to individual actors has some say in the final product, narratively speaking, yet films are respected as a medium for storytelling. Half of it is the stigma of being a young industry that had its beginnings far and away from narrative pursuits, the other half is reinforced by the industry itself, what sells and how the products are created. Games are situated to where they can combine the strengths of both books and films, yet they choose not to, because they don't have to in order to be financially successful and we as consumers don't demand this of them - it's ALWAYS a bonus if a narrative is well-written. More fool us.
Having watched quite a few HoS/GOD analyses. I'm pretty sure this is the best one yet.
I know this quote is overused but for a masterpiece like The Witcher 3 there is no other praise I can give.
"Don’t cry because it’s over, smile because it happened."
damn, i still get chills from the master mirror theme...
It would had been cool if you found out later (maybe in the Blood and Wine dlc) that Olgierd actually did die even if you made the choice to intervene. Like everything that happened during the game with O'dimm and its outcome was just an illusion. Reflecting your greed and hunger for being a hero.
I actually think the choice to oppose Gaunter and play his game are fine. Yes, Geralt wouldn't realistically take that risk, but it feels more like a fun jest orchestrated by Gaunter, rather than an actual high stakes game. After you beat him, he basically says he'll return and get you one day. It gives the impression that he's choosing to walk away after playing a board game with a child that he deliberately lost, and he's going to come back and be stronger once that child is more competent. Hammers in the impression that we never really learn the full extent of Gaunter's nature and abilities.
Olgeird was a rich, spoiled brat and a fool. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t deserve pity.
He, as a character, did not need forgiveness. He needed to learn from his faults and it felt like he genuinely did.
Say what you want about Gaunter O'Dimm but his advice to Geralt about romantic relationships is hard to argue with
You will never undestood fully Hearts of Ston unless you are polish and know Legen of Myster Twardowski.
could you elaborate on this? please? i took hearts of stone to be a nice variation of the faust/mephistopheles theme. is there more to it?
@@alexmuller6752 Jezus.... I love youtuve Its fucking cut out my coment with no reson..
@@alexmuller6752 I put my coment at your chanel in "diskusion" section. If you still dont get it, let me kniow i will send you an email
@@xyzxxxc5365 hm. i don't seem to have a discussion section?(using the tablet app has some restrictions, i guess. ) could you just copy&paste that to this thread?
@@alexmuller6752 i did and it was delated after 30 sec
As you said, in-game Geralt often has to accept to go solve thing he wouldn't do in the books. I still refuse to do one quest in Hearts of Stone for that reason. Some woman saying her brother is missing. When you choose the no thanks option, she says "you'll be back". She'll be waiting for a long time.
I CHOSE NO REWARDS THE FIRST TIME!! xD
Seriously though, that last choice given to Geralt exemplified how karma choices must be done in games: you choose evil over good not because you role-play being evil, but rather because evil pays more. Being good requires "losing out" but staying true to yourself.
BEGONE DEVIL!! xD
You get way more, if you beat his riddle and rob him blind.
@@johngideon4650 What do you get
@@TimmacTR A ton of stuff, a bunch of gold a fancy silver sword.
@@johngideon4650 Where did you get all this stuff? I only got the sword from Olgierd?
@@michielecker You go back into his mirror dimension and one of the paths right before the church is a cave full of gold and an armor set I think. You also get the silver viper sword in that mirror place.
I have always been sympathetic to Olgierd. I'm not totally clear on the time line, but his banditry can be explained by him being young, having a group of friends and his brother to revel with. Almost all young men, and women, have a group of friends to do stupid things with when they're young, drinking and pranking and raising hell. But because the games didn't give much specifics about this time of Olgierd's life, it's hard to say if they were a group of total sadistic psychopaths or just young men and women living like there's no tomorrow.
Then Olgierd falls in love and this would be the phase in his life when he settles down and has a family of his own, but tragedy strucks, and he's at a rock bottom. Then he gets angry and tries to get revenge, and then he gets desperate and makes worst mistake of his life. How he should be punished for that is up everyone's own subjective understanding of morality.
Then his heart turns to stone and it's hard to make case for how much he regrets things or how much he has grown over the years. Like if he truly feels nothing, why does he clearly feels something... the way he speaks of his wife and brother. How he wanted to expose the Borsodi brothers. Even if he claims he doesn't give a F about the orphans, he clearly feels Borsodis did wrong for not honoring their fathers agreement and basically giving a middle finger to their own family and fate of the downtrodden that the will would've helped, that must register with him on some level, he having to lose his own brother and he himself being in a bad financial situation and driven homeless and Borsodis didn't have any sympathy for him. So I feel like he's grown emotionally even if it should be technically impossible.
So I feel like he basically made one big mistake and shouldn't have to pay for it more than he already has. Also he losing everything, getting his feelings back and having to live rest of his life with the guilt of what he did, is sort of a punishment. I just feel like underneath it all Olgierd is emphatic, level-headed man who has a good chance to live better life now that he's made all the mistakes. I think he might even be able to help others to make sure they won't make the same mistakes as he did.
But of course you can make the argument that he had his chance, he squandered it and now he has to pay. Or that if people deserve a second chance, he's one of those people who are not deserving of it. But I feel like he is, and that's just my opinion.
Helping O Gauner O'Dim is the right thing to do. A man should reap what he sows and Olgierd had it coming. He called for Olgierd, he did all the violent and horrible things we learn about later, not Gaunter.
As with the BaW expansion, people consider saving Olgierd the "good ending". Why? He did so many awful things and deserves punishment. Geralt would have never antagonized such a powerful being for someone like Olgierd.
I thought the same thing as well, however when looking at Gaunter O'Dimm the fucker is literally evil incarnate. He is the devil, and Olgierd had a very very tragic story. Why give a man who made a horrible mistake soul to an entity that will torture, gore you till the stars expire? It all comes down to everyone's moral compass, personally I'd rather save a mans soul than be a pawn that dooms it to all eternity but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
While Olgierd caused whole lifetimes of suffering and misery, condemning him to a literal eternity of suffering is not fair. He is a horrible human and deserves punishment, but this particular punishment would not be justified. No amount of suffering could be avenged through an infinitely larger amount of suffering.
Then there's also the nature vs. nurture debate. Is he inherently evil because that's just how he is? Or was he driven towards evil by his environment and circumstances?
Also from what I remember, Olgierd was a decent human being (or at least a vastly less shitty one), who was in a desperate situation when he made the deal with Gaunter O'Dimm. He became a heartless maniac afterwards. He is an incredibly tragic character with a lot of depth and his situation is complicated, which makes it really interesting to discuss.
Olgierd is not a bad human beeing, gaunter is playing with the lives of everyone, he can stop time but restrains his true power only to enjoy himself. Gaunter guided the ofiris to geralt, as well as orchestrated the downfall of olgierd having him lose all his money pushing olgierd to make a pact with him. Gaunter made up all of the events that lead up to the dlc because he is PLAYING AND HAVING FUN. He is god, the only way he can have fun is restraining his true power and playing with the lives of simple humans.
I saved him cuz I wanted the extra swords. :\
Cd projekt red know their business, two great expansions and a fair pricing model.
Can't wait for cyberpunks
Well... happens even to the best, I guess!
This comment did not age well lol
I like to believe that O'Dimm simply made the challenge easy for Geralt, or at least doable, because he was simply entertained by the witcher willing to challenge him. Because the way I see it, O'Dimm simply seems to seek entertainment through these contracts, with the souls of the damned that he collects being a bonus, or maybe trophies from his dark games.
I love Gaunter O'Dimm. He reminds me of Mephisto in Goethe's Faust. Evil in a certain way, but also charming, seductive and also in twisted fashion fair. Brilliant writing. I gave him what he wanted, because I like him as a character.
This is a very well put together video but the one criticism I don't understand is criticizing a video game, for being a video game
Interfering with Olgierd and O'Dimm, I wanted a risk of losing Geralt's soul. Shame be told, it is only a gameover after losing to the timer. All the timer does is prevent you from running in circles and forces you to think of possibilities for a conclusion. The rhyme was easy, after about 3 of my own guesses, I managed to think of a mirror. Which is what it ended up being.
If you liked the story in this DLC, I highly suggest you look up the book Faust. The story really took a lot of ideas and themes from Faust, especially when comes to dealing with the question of if free will is a thing? Can we change our fate? Or are we damned at birth for our lot in life. O'dimm is very much like Mephistopheles.
That games almost always fail to have a well-written story is something that I too have noticed a year or maybe two ago and I find your view on what causes that to be very likely a huge factor in it and I also think there are just not that many good writers and your chances of getting that good writer in a position where he can make the story he wants to make in the development of a game is even harder due to those circumstances you described.
I still contribute a bunch of games with having a great story stuff like: "Dragon Age: Origins" but you know its pretty basic and has a bunch of stupid moments what saves such stories is I think player choice and choices which matter in the narrative that can make a story that would otherwise be decent at best, pretty good but still there is no denying that games hardly ever reach the heights of other mediums of entertainment like movies, cartoons/animes, mangas/comics and books but in some way they also don't rely that much on a story as they can still be great without even having one
Also when the gameplay is good even a mediocre story can suffice to drive the plot forward and still manage to create a great game
well in regards to the HoS review I got not much to add I pretty much share your views on this
the boss fights were the best the series had (maybe I missed some in BaW idk)
the story was one if not the best the game had to offer
the characters were good
the individual set pieces and missions were pretty great
I think the about 10h it took me to complete this DLC was the best consistently good 10h I had in witcher 3
It kinda seemed to me that HoS and BaW where like day and night to each other in the meaning that one focused on a tight story and a single good main quest while the other had a rather sloppy main quest but lots of side activity and basically like you said that new adventure some may wanted
I did not play BaW very thoroughly so I am looking forward to that review of yours this time also to see if I missed something that may be worth booting the game up once more and explore baguetteland once more
(HoS > BaW )
Yeah I think there's plenty of good reasons to enjoy the stories in games even if they aren't well written. But if most games aren't well written then its even more important to recognize and praise those that are, like hearts of stone.
Describing hearts of stone and blood and wine as like night and day is very appropriate. They vary in tone as well, with blood and wine being far more lighthearted. But even the colors feel like night and day. Blood and wine being bright and colorful compared to the dark and somber hearts of stone. Ultimately i think the big difference between them is a strength but it can easily lead people to have a strong preference for one over the other. I'm really not sure if my video on blood and wine will give you a good reason to play it again, but i hope you'll enjoy the video nevertheless.
Again, thanks for the comments and feedback(I read the other one too). Always good to hear from you.
HOS was so good I remembered when I beat it I felt like I played a new Witcher game very good, the characters, the story all captivated me.
Very entertaining to watch.
Having just watched The Good Place, I think Master mirror is a combination of several possibilities you noted. He toys with humans and tortures the cruel but creates situations in which people torture both each other and themselves. He tortured Olgierd but giving him exactly what he wanted.
I am not convinced that Olgierds culpability/responsibility is a binary. He was both a victim of Gaunter O’Dimm and a willing participant in the games that lead to his misery. O’Dimms main method of torturing people is to give them just the slightest push over the moral line. It makes for a very good question though. How much responsibility does someone bare when they, like Olgierd, are given the chance to get everything but want but have to do something terrible to get it? Olgierd wouldn’t have sacrificed his brother without that push from O’Dimm but he was clearly willing to do terrible things to further his own interests anyway.
To me, the Olgierd character in this story with Gaunter O'Dimm is the pinnacle of what makes the world of the Witcher so interesting.
Imagine a world, where, in your darkest days when you curse the world because you just lost a loved one, your curse would come true. This is the world of the Witcher.
No one here has never had a moment in life where you were so angry and depressed that you shouted curses into the void. Thing is that, in our world, nothing happens. But in the world of the Witcher your call could very well be answered and a character like Gaunter O'Dimm will take full advantage of your darkest wishes and put in a word-play for his own amusement to make you pay for it in the end.
Olgierd, in a dark moment when he was about to lose the love of his life, gave into his desires and used this ability to wish for all he ever wanted, knowing it might have consequences but failing to imagine the full extent of how dark and painful those consequences could be.
As you said, he's not without blame, but I could not imagine how hard living in that world could really be.
About the inspirations: whole wedding sequence is inspired both by Polish traditions, and early 1900s play The Wedding by Stanisław Wyspiański, very important for our literature
Gaunter is by far one of the greatest characters in a video game I've came across. Aside from roleplaying and it making no sense for Geralt to step in and Help Olgeird. Tbh I was just to scared and said nah bro you can have this one lol plus I grew to respect it more at the end. Yea" it" not him
I love Gaunters character design. He looks so plain and ordinary compared to the other great evils in the game.
He's not scary because of his dark armor with a skull-like helmet nor does he looks like an abomination. He looks like an average npc.
Only his smile reveals something dark... in a world so horrible why would he have a playful smile like that?
No other character smiles like that and he almost feels out of place, dare I say alien to that world. It's subtle and beautiful.
Ce sourire sournois ou satisfait ! :o
the point about gaunter o'dimm riddle you made is wonderful, I had the exact same feelings about it (being limited by it's medium) and it's one of my biggest disappointment in this story. Seemingly unbeatable villain gets beaten by a mediocre riddle? yeaaah, I had some ideas how you could improve on this concept, for example - you have much less time and once he beats you, it's over. you don't get killed and sent back to a checkpoint do it one more time but instead Olgierd's soul is taken and he leaves you with the mark and a promise that someday he will come back for your soul and take it, but not now, now you can do the blood and wine expansion and maybe there, at the end he comes for you. also it would be a great easter egg if you wouldn't actually be able to use save points to go back and repeat the riddle since Gaunter can control time and space, maybe it would be a neat idea if he could also control your save points
The first part of HoS with Vlodomir's ghost is just complete boredom. Luckily the second part saves it all. Far the best boss fight encounters are here. Olgierd is just as evil as Gaunter but he is finally able to repent. Such a profound critique.
Another inspiration for O’dimm could be the myth surrounding Blues musician Robert Johnson, a guitarist who was rumored to have sold his soul for amazing guitar playing skills after meeting the devil at a crossroads, which is said to how Olgierd met if you choose to talk to the scholar during the final quest
Another interesting thing about O’dimm is that it seems one never summons O’dimm instead he seems to appear to those whoever is wishing for something, to appear as a blessing to those who are desperate, which he did twice for geralt once for help in finding yennefer and the second for escaping the Ofieri ship, and as we can tell with Olgierd, appears to him at a crossroads during a moment of desperation
He is no demon as traces of him are unknown and any attempts to summon him through incantations failed with Olgierd
And is no genie as Djinns (the Witcher version of genies) take on a whole lot different form compared to the more human form of Gaunter
WOW mature content keep it up
I let O'dimm take Olgierd's soul. The man was a complete bastard and dealt with the devil. He named his own fate, earned every punishment he's likely bound for. Morally speaking there's just no good reason for me, or Geralt as the professional monster slayer and occasional bleeding heart I play him as, to get involved. For an innocent? Maybe. At that point O'dimm's something of a monster, Witchers protect people from monsters, ergo. Olgierd on the other hand... isn't far off from a monster in his own right.
I also didn't take any reward from O'dimm besides *not* being involved with him any more. Nope. Don't need those cursed gifts nor cursed gold.
If memory serves, I’ve never smashed a conversation option faster than letting Gaunter take dudebro’s soul. Brilliant bit of DLC and character writing b/c fuck that guy.
The Caretaker is super fun
18:46
Shang Tsung approves
"Your soul is Mine"
I had the same issue with the final choice too, there's really no reason to not choose to fight O'Dimm outside of loyal roleplaying because fighting O'Dimm felt like "The Boss Fight" in a video game.
That said, I can't remember the last time a video game quest was as compelling as the trip through the painted world, and the real (albeit false) choice of the whole story was at the end of the painted world, where you chose to free Iris or not.
Gaunter sounds like the archetype of the trickster god
I never played witcher 3 myself. Something keeps game crushing. So I tried watching main story and side quest game movie, as well as blood and wine. But they didn’t caught my attention. Hearts of stone however I keep rewatching on gamers lil playground over and over again. Such a beautiful story. Such characters. And honestly I don’t know what’s the fuss around Yen and Triss. IMHO Shani is the best(do keep in mind I never played witcher games, so I don’t really know what went down in first Witcher at Shani’s party). Thanks for analysis. Glad to know there are other people who enjoyed lore in this DLC. And yes, 100% agreed - I hate DLC concept in modern days(used to be just mods that you download on freeware basis), but goddamn this expansion worth every penny. Last thing - if I played, Olgierd would die. The moment I learned he betrayed his own brother for some vagina his fate was sealed. Bros before hoes for life.
Does anybody else get the civie11 vibe from his Singularity video?
@23:35
"Motherfucker you're about to drink from the wrong Grail!"
Your last argument is a bit flawed. The risk of making that final choice IS real because there are such things as bad endings in games. The Witcher 3 itself has a possible bad ending, and many of its side quests have bad endings. Blood & Wine can have a bad ending. So the risk is real because knowing that bad endings are a thing, you can't be sure that choosing to face O'Dimm wouldn't result in exactly that--a bad ending where Geralt loses his soul.
I adore HoS. Definitely prefer it over Blood and Wine. The setting in BaW is beautiful, but honestly it kind of feels like just more of the same and you could not pay me to care about any of the characters (other than Regis, but that goes without saying I think). Although HoS was set within the world I was already familiar with, the story and characters were so amazingly compelling that I still think about various aspects once in a while, years after having played it for the first time. Olgierd was set up as an asshole in a way that from the very start I could tell something deeper was going on, and by the end I was absolutely sympathetic to him. And Gaunter O'Dimm is not only one of my favorite video game antagonists, but possibly one of my favorite antagonists in any piece of media. I'm a sucker for "bad guys" that may not necessarily be evil, but more a force of nature that adhere to a strict code and inflict mischief and pain along the way because they are just a bit of an asshole while following that code. Every time I pick up the game again one of my favorite things is going to that inn in White Orchard just to chat with him again, knowing the role he'll play later.
The Witcher 3 and each expansion of it will always be the best game I ever played.
Regarding the lack of danger in trying to face Gaunter, I disagree about the lack of stakes being a problem. Firstly, if we were reading another medium that you mentioned, like a book, we'd also have no stakes. We'd expect the main character to win and probably know by that point in the story, with few exceptions, whether he'd win or failure was an option. And in those exceptions, it's still limited as far as stakes go. The MC failure is really small compared to any real stakes. Also in the game, given you had the option to let Olgierd die, there is some possibility the choice to fight Gaunter is a dead end of some sort since you don't require that choice to succeed for there to be progress. Anyhow, one of the main stakes in any fictional medium is what we lose access to, which could be a character or item. Comparing to either books or games, I don't think the stakes are lower than normal. If you choose Olgierd, you lose Gaunter as a buddy! It sounds comical, but maybe down the line it matters. Like after Witcher 2 choices certain characters lived or died in W3. Or choosing O'Dimm, you don't get to talk to Olgierd again. If you were curious about possible redemption or just to see Olgierd's reflections, it's kind of a big loss as far as those go in fictional universes. So while I agree there is an issue from small stakes, I'd say rarely do we find any exceptions. Good review.
i can't wait for the future of gaming where you have a say over the 5exuality of the character you're playing. The only reason I helped and saved Olgierd was because after stumbling across the start of the Hearts of Stone dlc quest during my main WE quest playthrough I immediately wanted him and Geralt to hook up. After the final showdown with Gaunter where Geralt and Olgierd are saying goodbye I was screaming KISS HIM at the screen. Olgeralt4lyfe.
Bruh... Geralt isn't gay, he wasn't gay in the books, he isn't gay in the games. You roleplay as Geralt and he would never do that, so you aren't able to choose that.
One thing has occured to me when you proposed that choosing to oppose O'Dimm wasn't a real choice, because Geralt, as the player protagonist would always end up ok. CDPR has missed out on possibly the most epic and damn BOLD move they could've made with that choice - imagine what would this choice entail if losing your soul to O'Dimm meant simply that the game erases all your saved games from the current playthrough. Would that, in your opinion, make the choice more thrilling?
That would've been one hell of a bold move...and it would've pissed a lot of people off. One less harsh alternative if Geralt failed the challenge would be for Gaunter O'Dimm to take Olgierd's soul immediately, but then leave and say he'd be back to claim Geralt's soul later. And then he could maybe appear at the end of Blood and Wine to take Geralt's soul. After all, one of the defining elements of the Witcher series is not to reveal the full consequences of your decisions until considerably after you make them. Players would be left wondering if it was just a bluff by the game, or if he would actually be coming back later.
Of course, nothing would stop players from simply reloading until they succeeded the challenge, but it at least allows for the possibility of a canonical ending where Geralt gets his soul taken, rather than treating it as a "game over".
@@benl2140 That's actually a much better idea. Let the players lose, and only give them a foreshadowing, which they'll likely forget by the time the game ends. And boom, no happy ending for you - your sould is now the devil's plaything.
The only caveat is that you can play the Heart of Stones expansion as the very, very last thing (you don't have to play them in order). But I guess then it'd just be back to my idea of an instant "bad end", if you have both the main plot and the other expansion completed.
To add to the message of the story warning about dangers of contracts, perhaps you could say the rewards of the contract are also warned of when you side with Gaunter. Like, 500 gold or something pitiful to the player at that point in the game. Actually it'd be fairly unappealing even at the beginning of a game. Compared to the way he hyped up the surfeit of treasures on offer, I guess in the small print said *according to Gaunter, regardless of whether the player agrees on these appraisals. Whether it was Olgierd or Geralt, the fruits of a deal with the devil were crap!
I loved this doc. At first I really didn't like olgierd but eventually felt sorry 4 him.even tho he did alot of it 2 himself I ultimately couldn't let him have his soul taken away. He had suffered enough & the punishment was 2 high a price.