Learn to Land RC EDF Jets
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- Landing EDFs - once they're properly set up - is a real joy and nothing to be afraid of. Plan ahead of what your aircraft is doing, use throttle on landing, and use an appropriate level of flaps for the type of aircraft you're flying and you'll find that it will float down to a gentle landing if you remember to maintain a shallow glideslope and flare before touchdown.
#tutorial #flying #radiocontrol
0:00 Intro
0:10 Mustang II Landing
0:55 Preflight, Crow Discussion
1:48 50% Throttle Takeoff
2:30 T&G 1
3:00 Flap Advice, Stalls, T&G 2
3:45 Let the Plane Fly, T&G 3
4:31 Newbie Advice, T&G 4
5:37 General Advice, T&G 5
6:40 T&G 6
7:10 Setup is Paramount, T&G 7
7:37 Thrust in Turns, T&G 8
8:26 Tip Stall Example, Landing
9:25 Conclusions
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as a fairly new pilot and someone interested in EDF's...these types of flight videos, along with the detailed narrative are super helpful...thanks much for the very informative video!!! ...
Thank you Gary! I'm happy you enjoyed.
Go for it! the first time you raise up into freedom off the runway it will all be worth it
Guys at the field ask me how I grease my landings given any plane and any circumstance. As a full scale pilot, I give them a bit of ground schooling. I call it the 4 A's. This is what you need to be continually processing on your approach and in this order: 1. Airspeed, 2. Ang of Attack or Alpha, 3. Altitude, and 4..Alignment (with the centerline). Essentially I'm training them to think like an autopilot. This might a bit much for the beginner, but if you follow this order, you'll will have success every time.
Flairing right before touchdown and right amount of low throttle is key.
Great video Jon!
Not just that, but having the right setup so you don't porpoise once you flare!
In flying real aircraft (the one's that you actually ride in), low performance aircraft one typically will stall the aircraft a few inches above the ground during landing, keeping constant back pressure on the stick. High performance aircraft are landed differently - You actually fly the aircraft on to the ground. Consequently, the landing is made higher speed with a longer roll-out.. Excellent Video!!!!!!!
Great tutorial! nicely done
Super nice. Thanks for the info
Thanks for sharing. Very useful!
Great video Jon, I’ve been enjoying your videos from this new flying spot.
Thanks Howie!
excellent video by what looks to be an excellent pilot!
Thank you for another very informative video. Flying vicariously with a preview of these awesome aircraft is priceless -- well done! Because of your excellent videos my 1st EDF will be the Eflight smaller version Viper 70mm. I'm starting in EDF gradually before I even consider the big brother. My ultimate very enterprising goal is to fly the L-29.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Good landing advice and nice video.
Thanks man!
Great video you have helped me a lot with my edf journey
F35 flying fpv
I have the 70mm E-flite Viper and it will tip stall in a heartbeat. I haven't flown the 90mm version. On my EDF's, I put the transmitter's flight modes on the flap switch and enable F-Mode Trim. This gives me separate aileron and elevator trims for each position of the flaps. I'll shoot approaches with the flaps in takeoff and landing position with the power off and adjust the elevator trim so that the plane glides without getting too slow or descending too quickly. When I'm on final, I don't really think about airspeed. I use the elevator to control the angle of attack and the throttle to control the descent rate.
Freaking great video and I learned a lot. Thank you
Glad to be of service.
Nice!! Thanks!
i appreciate that you are calling out the throttle position as you are coming in. I find that a lot of CZcams videos on this subject neglect to discuss where the the throttle is set at different stages of the landing. I fly mostly 80/90mm EDF jets at a space constrained flying field, it would be interesting to see you make a video like this for a filed that requires you to come in around (or over) trees to land (would help me greatly). Great series of videos, thanks!
Thanks David! I'll be shooting more tutorials like this in the future with a transmitter view so you can see my exact settings as I fly.
@@TwoBrosRC I appreciate that, I have working on perfecting my landings for a long time and take any tip I can get. As I said I fly at a constrained field surrounded by trees ( see it here: bit.ly/3x9Yhzz ) and have to come over trees on most approach making for a carrier style landing. Do you have a patreon page?
@@TwoBrosRC I was also wondering what throttle setting would be from downwind to base and base to final and on final.
Feel it out. It's all based on how you prefer to fly. There's no true answer here.
@@fdm225 Hi David - sorry about the super late reply. Your message was flagged as spam so I had to manually approve it. I don't have a Patreon but I do have a PayPal link you can use if you'd like to support me: www.paypal.com/paypalme/JonSynRC
Nice!
When there's little to no wind its really easy, it gets really challenging when there's a lot of gusty wind, especially when you don't have a gyro to help.
I've found that going in with only half flaps and a bit faster is safer on windy days than going with full flaps and slower, the plane gets thrown around much harder with full flaps!
yeh...that bird has reverse thrust in that ESC...we use it for shorter landing rolls...useful!!😁👍
👀
Super!
Thanks for the shout out! I think. 😆 🤣 😃🛩👍
Haha, no worries Gary. At least you didn't fly yours into a tree like I did. 😂
You are right Jon, watching and learning. Would be great if you could show the touch and go, including stick movement in a future vid. Thanks.
I would need to have a cameraman with me so I could use my chest mount. It's unfortunately not possible to shoot the model and the transmitter at the moment if I'm flying alone. Soon though!
@@TwoBrosRC thanks. Yes, a little challenging. Just another thought to help us new to the jets, you gave many suggestions to set up (thanks). Perhaps a vid on setup specifically, of the Viper? Enjoying your content👍.
Already did!
czcams.com/video/uUOJhLrSibw/video.html
That covers my current setup sans new servos.
@@TwoBrosRC sorry...new to the channel. Thanks.
@@Lawzy Sure thing man, no worries. I'm here to help if I can. I hope you find it useful!
Nice tutorial Jon with no H lol
You were talking about the "crow". Mind doing another video explaining what it is and how it can help eliminate the tip stall? Thanks
I covered it in my Viper 90 setup video: czcams.com/video/uUOJhLrSibw/video.html
Thanks for this can you please re shoot with the zoom camera for this video. It’s soooo good
I don't normally shoot landing tutorials with my cameraman - it's generally easier to do it by myself. I did shoot one with this jet recently - check through my upload history and you'll see it.
Uhg so I have to remove the receiver and put in an 8 channel to get it to land good? Great video!!!!
Well, it's either that or you make really long glideslopes which come with an inherent risk of misjudging airspeed and stalling a wing. I've never seen a Viper jet stall straight forward - it always drops in a sharp bank to the right or left. With my alpha crow mixing, you can actually get it to perform the 3D "elevator" move where it just stalls straight down without dropping a wing - further proving that crow is invaluable on this model.
@@TwoBrosRC So you use your crow on banking to final? I thought you didn't turn it on until you were on final?? I'll watch your video some more.
Anyway I have the 8360T. I was going to use it on a different jet but might just use it on this one. You have two files. 000_ViperJet_90mm.spm which is the spektrum setup file. What is the 000_ViperJet_90mm.ispm file?
It's on when the wings are leveled. Don't look at it like braking - look at it like you're introducing a lower stall speed at higher angles of attack.
The iSPM file is for IX radios. The SPM should work, if not, the setup basics are in my video called Viper 90mm Maximum Performance Setup.
@@TwoBrosRC thanks so much! This will be a fun project since I can't fly right now.
Do you have a video of how you set up your crow on the Viper? I have tried to land without it and just full flaps and it didn’t go well (70mm Viper V2)
czcams.com/video/uUOJhLrSibw/video.html
Try that!
Great video. Just curious how long are the flaps delayed going to full flap. ie 5 sec? Any down elevator mixing. Thanks
Thank you!
There's a bit of down elevator mixed in - the specific values can be found in the Viper 90 setup I believe: czcams.com/video/uUOJhLrSibw/video.html
Flap timer is about 3 or 4 seconds - at 150% rates 4 seconds is needed to produce a 2 second deployment speed.
If not, you can check the iSPM file via tinyurl.com/SynRCSetupFiles
This is a very helpful tutorial. Thank you.
BTW, I have a question about how you apply the elevator. I have a tendency of applying up elevator from the approach to the end. Are you applying up elevator only while you are flaring?
I hold very light amounts of elevator control while descending. Most of the pitch authority is coming from throttle control.
@@TwoBrosRC Thank you so much!~
Very interesting! (Will save for reference) Question: Did you replace servos on this one? Or any other stock equipment on this high-performance jet. Thanks...........
I did! I'm running tinyurl.com/B13DLM servos on the ailerons and elevators currently for additional torque (3.8kg at 6v) to have more precision and more of a linear response with less blowback.
@@TwoBrosRC Thanks for the response. So do you treat all e-Flite servos as "barely adequate" and upgrade or are there some factory applications that serve the purpose. I too have automatically replaced servos in higher performance models of other brands.
Wrong link above - it's tinyurl.com/B13DLM - sorry about that. With regard to servo upgrades, it depends. Sometimes I do feel that the servos included aren't precise enough for my tastes or don't have enough torque. This model flies perfectly fine without the servos I'm using, but I wanted the additional torque and precision they offer.
Nice Jon, one quistion for you what you used flap for you landing and take up men??
Here's the setup I fly with: czcams.com/video/uUOJhLrSibw/video.html
@@TwoBrosRC thank so much, always success 4 u
When in the approach sequence do you deploy the crow setting and when after you have gotten airborn again to you go back to normal ailerons? Also, if you have an edf without flaps would you suggest still setting up crow or program flaperons? Thanks!
Crow is automatic on full flaps in my setup. You can take off with crow but it's best practice to go back to takeoff flaps or no flaps before rotating. Without flaps, it would depend on the model.
I use flaperons with my jets without flaps but only use half falls otherwise I loose aileron authority
Hi Jon..... I realize this clip is quite old however I still found the content to be both very informative and relevant. My question to you is: Would you consider the Habu or Banshee good planes to utilize the skills you demonstrated on this video for a beginner? I've been flying my Aeroscout for about 2 months and I'm up to 400 touch and go's out of a goal of 1000 I set for myself. :) Also, what would you consider to be the superior beginner plane, the Habu or the Banshee? I'm hoping to get a Viper 90 mm in about a year or two.
Habu floats forever. Banshee probably won't. You'll be better off practicing on a Banshee if you're trying to build skills. The Habu is better for relaxed stress-free flying because it's almost unstallable.
I'm going to be setting up my Viper 70mm PNP, 637T rx... I'm flying a Habu 50mm right know.. I'm setting up my expo Pos 1,2,3 20, 30, 40.. are these a good starts for the Viper or should I lower them more? You also mentioned setting the controls to their full movements.. Did I understand this correctly? Thanks again for this video..
Yes, that's correct - full movement with roughly 70% expo on all surfaces for this jet.
Do you have any tutorials on landing this Viper 90 without crow? Just the basic BNF stock setup from Horizon Hobby?
czcams.com/video/G-8FXntqv84/video.html
I look up to your IG after confuse for john overatsret guy from FT master series✌
I'm definitely not affiliated with Flite Test, haha.
This was somewhat helpful. The problem with this tutorial is that most of us don't have an 8 channel receiver and crow on our Vipers
czcams.com/video/G-8FXntqv84/video.html
This updated vid goes over crow and standard landings.
@@TwoBrosRC thanks a lot! I ended up getting the AR8360. Do you have a tutorial on setting up that receiver on the plane and adding crow?
@@MrWhatahelisdis czcams.com/video/uUOJhLrSibw/video.html
@@TwoBrosRC thank you very much!
Good skills. Is it difficult to set up crow?
Nope! Check the setup and you'll see: czcams.com/video/uUOJhLrSibw/video.html
How are you getting the battery read outs called out to you?
Voltage telemetry. Learn more on Discord via bit.ly/TBRCDiscord
You mentioned “Crow” ,what kind of percentage are you adding and when are you initializing that ?
czcams.com/video/uUOJhLrSibw/video.html
Is there any formula of how many craw degrees for Flap degree? I want to try crow to my turn turbine Jet. Thanks
There's no formula that we're aware of. Eyeball it and test it until you're happy with the results.
When landing at final. Do you move throttle more ? Or pitch? I have a habu 50mm and a tend to bounce.
If you're bouncing, it's because you're dropping the model too hard. You need to flare before landing.
How do I set up the crow. Eflight 90mm. Spekum 18.
Check my channel for the Viper 90 setup video. I've got you covered
@@TwoBrosRC thanks
So anyone with a BNF obviously can’t do this. I would assume you could manually put in “alittle” washout to be applied at all times which could help somewhat ??
It would help a little, but you'd be better off upgrading the receiver and following our setup guide.
Also did you add any elevator mix to the crow settings?
Yeah, you need a decent amount of elevator correction when crow is deployed. The upward aileron reflex acts like upward elevator which needs to be neutralized in the mix. Check tinyurl.com/SynRCSetupFiles for the Viper setup file I'm flying with - which includes the crow mixing for you.
@@TwoBrosRC thank you for the help. I use a flight controller and edgeTX with my viper, not sure if the config file is compatible. With this being said I would need a percentage of down elevator?
@@sodjazero I use the innermost hole on the elevator, longer servo arms with more precise servos, and 150% rates. My values likely won't translate to your setup, but a good ballpark figure to start with is 8 to 16% down elevator.
@@TwoBrosRC This info will get me close! Thank you and keep up videos coming!
Appreciate this one, especially as my first jet plane got delivered today ;-) went for the baby brother of yours (viper 70mm). Is it also worth setting up crow config on this? if so i am assuming the alerions need to be in separate channels. Any advise on what a good starting point for the 70mm setup you can give would be great. 🙌
Yes, absolutely! Follow my Viper 90 setup guide and you'll have the info you'll need. Please consider buying from my affiliate links for the receiver and batteries if you'd like to support what I'm doing - and if you need specific help please don't hesitate to reach out.
The receiver I'm running can be acquired via tinyurl.com/SpektrumAR8360T
@@TwoBrosRC thanks Jon. Will check it out 👍🏿
Okay now everyone turn your gyros completely off….. and let the good times roll!
I mean, why though? I can land and fly with or without a gyro - I just prefer having my models stabilized.
The plane that landed at the beginning of the video......If an Extra and a P51 had a child that's what it would look like.
Great video, very helpful. Thank you.
"Severe tip stall characteristics?!" I could not disagree more. This model has the most benign handling of any EDF I've ever flown. Slow speed handling is fantastic, super forgiving.
Try flying it at low speeds and you'll see what I'm talking about. Viper style aircraft have very bad tip stall characteristics caused by the winglets generating negative washout and, generally, a highly loaded wing. Neither of which is conducive to a jet that handles well at low speeds. There's plenty of video evidence of how these airframes stall - all of which can be seriously alleviated by using crow to introduce washout during landing with flaps deployed.
You can look through my video history to see more about its stall characteristics, especially the high alpha attempt which led to a crash (dropped a wing in a tip stall) and the high alpha sport jet tutorial I created which has a segment demonstrating just how nasty its stall can be, including several successive tip stalls in a row.
@@TwoBrosRC I've flown low figure 8s slower than yours lands, because I don't use crow. Crow reduces available lift and increases the stall speed.
And at 8:30 where it 'tip stalls', the model is almost knife edge. Of course it's going to stall/drop, because the wing isn't doing any work.
Video 'evidence' is strongly influenced by pilot skill. Which is difficult to evaluate on a small screen. I've seen in person some good pilots fly this model low and slow with no issues, and had none with mine.
While crow does reduce some lift at the wingtips - it enhances lift distribution because it forces a stall to begin at the wing root rather than at the wingtip. And yes, it does increase the wing's stall speed. So no, I doubt you're flying figure 8 patterns slower than I'm landing because this model stalls around 25 MPH with crow and around 29 MPH without it. If you're going slower than that, you're flying into a headwind. I'm usually landing this model within 5 MPH of its stall speed.
At 8:30 you're seeing it drop the wing even further because the lift distribution is entirely unequal and the airspeed necessary to maintain flight at that point wasn't kept up. It's an extreme example - but a better one would be looking into the alpha tutorial I mentioned where I covered this extensively: czcams.com/video/BARk-6Rmcp4/video.html
This model (and any similar model with a high wind loading) will suffer from tip stalls and accelerated stalls. It's a consequence of the design. Crow eliminates that.
I'm not against admitting that I'm wrong when I'm demonstrably proven wrong - so if you've got video of you flying in figure 8 patterns and going slow - which is apparently not an objective term whatsoever - I'd love to see it. Because my experience in hundreds of flights on the Viper is that it does not handle slow speeds well and is susceptible to an immediate and violent stall, such as the one that IJGH experienced: czcams.com/video/eE7ozkpwm3M/video.html
@@TwoBrosRC I think we can agree to disagree, until we have more subjective evidence :-)
The fact that you say tipstall so much is a negative for me, as it is absolutely one of the most overused and misunderstood terms in model aviation.
And you admit that crow increases stall speed, yet also that you land slower with it? Doesn't make any sense.
I have many videos demonstrating the Viper and its capabilities. I don't see anything on your channel. It's hard to "agree to disagree" with someone who doesn't have any evidence while I've got a ton of it. If you want to provide evidence for what you've written, please do so - otherwise I can't take what you've said seriously because there's nothing backing your claims.
With regard to stall speed, when I said "increase" I think any reasonable person could deduce that I meant "reduces stall speed" when I mentioned that the stall speed with crow is 25 MPH. I definitely make mistakes when I type and that was one of them - but it's not worth being pedantic about.
With regard to tip stall being overused, I'll agree there, but that's not the case here. The wingtip stalling causes the jet to drop a wing in an asymmetrical stall. At low level, it's completely unrecoverable and leads to potentially serious damage to the airframe. If a wing didn't drop, I wouldn't call it a tip stall.