How China Escaped Shock Therapy
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- čas přidán 23. 06. 2024
- A story spanning thousands of years, there is far more to China's market reformation than many Western scholars might have you believe.
Isabella Weber (UMass Amherst) discusses her new book on how China managed its transition from central planning to markets, available now: www.routledge.com/How-China-E...
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China has become deeply integrated into the world economy. Yet, gradual marketization has facilitated the country’s rise without leading to its wholesale assimilation to global neoliberalism. This book uncovers the fierce contest about economic reforms that shaped China’s path. In the first post-Mao decade, China’s reformers were sharply divided. They agreed that China had to reform its economic system and move toward more marketization-but struggled over how to go about it. Should China destroy the core of the socialist system through shock therapy, or should it use the institutions of the planned economy as market creators? With hindsight, the historical record proves the high stakes behind the question: China embarked on an economic expansion commonly described as unprecedented in scope and pace, whereas Russia’s economy collapsed under shock therapy. Based on extensive research, including interviews with key Chinese and international participants and World Bank officials as well as insights gleaned from unpublished documents, the book charts the debate that ultimately enabled China to follow a path to gradual reindustrialization. Beyond shedding light on the crossroads of the 1980s, it reveals the intellectual foundations of state-market relations in reform-era China through a longue durée lens. Overall, the book delivers an original perspective on China’s economic model and its continuing contestations from within and from without.
A better title：How China Escaped Our Trap
There is a videos here on CZcams where a Chinese try to tell the story.
How china escape our so call freedom/democracy
@@johnkoffi9335 Don't forget human rights. The trifecta of every good CIA engineered color revolution.
Did it escape the shock? The therapy was just delayed, the sock will be worst the later it comes.
@@johnkoffi9335 aka a corrupt system
Before he died, the farmer asked his son: "Pigs complain about poor feed, cows complain about heavy work, and chickens complain about dirty nests. What should I do?" The son said, "Feed good feed, do some light work, and clean up the chicken nest." The Lord shook his head and said, "Don't do anything. Give them votes. Let them choose you or your wife to take care of them. Let them think that this family is theirs."
👍👍👍😂
The farmer asked his son what to do? And then he died? I don't understand the logic... Hey, I'm gonna die before you and I've lived longer than you, so can YOU give ME some advice? lol, wtf?!
give them votes and they think they are the owner of this country，xd~~
@@eamon3246 question doesn’t mean asking for advice. Have you ever attend school and answer question from teacher? Do you think teacher with math degree don’t know how to solve simple calculations and was asking your advice?
@@eamon3246 obviously you're not that smart to get the point of this story, that in which the focus is not the death of the farmer.
Deng Xiaoping is one of the most misrepresented political figure in the 20th century.
He is often held up as this Capitalist Champion by the West that saw the bright light of capitalism
One of the misrepresented quote by Deng was "Let some people get rich first", as evidence for his acceptance for capitalism. HOWEVER
the second part of this quote is deliberately left out, which he says "Let some get rich first, SO they can help other parts of the country to get rich, and achieve COMMON PROSPERITY"
Western media loves to bash Xi Jinping for him "slipping back to Mao" when in fact he's actually is continuing Deng's reforms.
The West loves to put different generations of Chinese leader against each other. When in reality, each successive generation of leadership is simply continuing the incremental reforms that had been happening for decades.
Without Mao's industrialization, Deng won't have any foundation to build on, without Deng's commercialization and opening up of the Chinese economy, then Xi won't have any foundation for his reforms either.
Wow, this is so well said! Thank you for your analysis!
"When in reality, each successive generation of leadership is simply continuing the incremental reforms that had been happening for decades."
Indeed.
I would like to commend you on your astute observation.
One of the cornerstones of Xi Thought is the "Comprehensive Deepening of Reforms"
Deng said ‘allow some people getting rich before others “
Exactly
why would one need 'shock therapy' if one is not sick or insane? it seems that we in the west are the ones in need of serious therapy in these crazy times...
*The ballot box is the existential requirement for all forms of democracy. So it is not true that "nations all have their unique model". However, the ballot box is an inherently flawed model rendering it incapable of living up to its promise.*
*Note: This reply was intended as a reply to **_Yaxiong Zhao_** who in turn responded to my post about the China Model.*
@@sc-to4uf I understand you mean it metaphorically, but if a ballot box is implemented wisely it can be good.
@@chunchuanlv3211
If a dictator chooses to be wise, it can be good too.
@@sc-to4uf The ballot box is where you vote for the most popular. To get the most able person in office we need meritocracy which is obviously lacking in US.
@@sc-to4uf problem with the ballot box is for 42 months leading to the election, the ruling govt plans on how to win the election n then the 6 months after winning to settle in
The Chinese leadership **NAILED** it perfectly. They drew lessons from Japan, under US occupation and forced to accept the Plaza Accord, and lessons from Southeast Asia financial meltdown due to currency attacks from the West, and South America's middle-income trap... Beijing utilized its centralized power and engineered their development on solid footings, solving one obstacle at a time.
The western democracies are no match. They must smear Beijing to maintain the western political status quo. But smearing Beijing only works for limited time on the western population. It has no effect to the Chinese because they already see their government's success first-hand. How time has changed - back in the cold war, the socialist nations kept control with lies, and fast forward to today, the West has to lie to keep control on their own people. LoL talking about reversal of roles.
You make good points. It is time the US in particular studies the Chinese success model and implement wide scale changes to improve the lives of its citizens. However, in many cases, the horse is already out of the barn and it is now too late to make many reforms. It has and still is pushing a lot of the wrong buttons.
I think the die is cast and we will see the US continue to become a smaller and smaller player on the world scene. The world is rapidly becoming multi-polar under the leadership of Asia, and the world will be a better place.
what? the soviets did not lie to their people about the west. when Russia transitioned to capitalism they faced the things their leadership said they would face if they did that.
@@trekpac2 Biden's build back better is definitely influenced by the massive infra projects the Chinese have done in the last few decades...
@@fabiojr8082,USA and the west didn't lie . I am yet to know / informed about a virgin prostitute.
@@zomgneedaname The intention of those Biden projects is one thing, the ability to achieve what China achieved is a complete different story
2100 years ago, 81 BC to be exact, a big debate about economic development model happened in imperial court in China. The debate was about whether the economy should be more market-driven mainly by private businesses, which was the model before Emperor Wu, or more state guided/controlled which was during Emperor Wu's reign as he consolidated power and resources to fight Huns. The debate was recorded and compiled into a book, "Discourses on Salt and Iron".Many people, especially westerners, had misconception about the development of economic theories in China historically. In fact, 2500 years ago, the ruling elites already deployed sort of financial/economic warfare to gain advantage against its rivalries, such as Qi.
Interesting.
Asians must stop idolizing d west. Asians must become ourselves again.
The westerners power come from d pedestal that we place them on.
Well said.
You need to get into the Chinese mindset to understand why we took on these actions. Don't dissect a big picture and decipher each broken fragments in your language.
In the west the governments make plan for next quarter of a year, in China the government makes plan for the next quarter of a century.
In the west, the govt make plans on how to win the next election for 42 mths, 6 mths after winning the election
@@teckchuonting4582 In China, there is no concern about how to win a democratic election to be a ruler over the country but a permanent chairman of CCP.
Amazing how a lot of Chinese are afraid to criticize anything about China due to the CCP police. Look like you will be afraid and can’t complain about China for the remainder of Emperor Xi’s life, then he will elect his son to be the new chairman.
@@UnknownUnknown-hg7xg you are everywhere. First Xi does not have a son. Second I have no problem criticizing the government. The difference is the intention. My intention is in hope of the government solve the problem, your intention is for CIA regime change. WE DON'T WANT THAT!
@@liu3gzMy intention is that China is becoming the Nazi Germany of Asia and Xi Jinping just made himself Hitler 2.0 with lifetime dictatorship and that need to stop. Chinese citizens can't even protest for changes when they see injustice in their country because they are too scared of their government and Chinese people like you are weak-minded. China bully their neighbors to take over land, sea, and air and expect to be liked just because their GDP rose recently? Taiwan is a great independent country with a thriving self sustaining government and China now wants to take it over? Tibet and Mongolia were peaceful nations and look what happened to them. Now China is trying to bribe Africa with debts for influence, take Japan's islands and declare the whole eastern sea as their own? Examine your government's policies towards its own citizen and minorities and see how it's not unlikely the comparison China is to Nazi Germany.
In order to understand China, the only major ancient civilization survived, you have to study the history of China. The history of political system in China is a history of evolution of meritocracy, which is continously adapted and improved to govern a country as large and a population as diversified as China.
"In order to understand China, the only major ancient civilization..." Whilst serfs and slaves were growing rice in the Yellow River Basin, the bronze age had started in Crete and Wales. There are a multiplicity of societies that are named as Ancient civilisation, all of which have more relation to current societies than how to grow rice. Read history, not just CCP chauvinism the history of the Dynasties is a history of greed and power among the dynasties and abject servitude among the peasants. Meritocracy ? another CCP chauvinistic misinformation, very few leaders in CCP China have not been members of the Communist Party.
@@angusmckenzie9622 I am sorry but the root of civilian in Europe is Greece. And Meritocracy has nothing to do with CCP. It is a political system established in 583 AC in Sui dynasty. Do your research.
@@angusmckenzie9622 CCP, CCP, CCP… someone must fall in love with CCP?
@@netterdrachen1687 "I am sorry but the root of civilian in Europe is Greec..." Ancient Greece is significant because of democracy. There were and are dozens of civilisations all around the world, most outside of Asia or Europe, the influences of which still hold. Incan, Aztec, Roman, Persian, Mayan, Egyptian, Danubian, Mesopotamian, Indus, Celtic, Norse. Your Sui Dynasty reference looks to be an exam for administrative functionaries. Read history, not chauvinistic comics.
@@netterdrachen1687 The ancient book 尚书 (Book of History) mentioned meritocracy and saying "任官惟贤才，左右惟其人" (Appoint only the capable ones to be official). That book was written among 1000-200 BC.
In China, government think about people's lives. They think about long term strategies. Of course there is corruption and injustice like rest of world, but its not as corrupted as rest .
That's an alien concept in the west. In the west we only think about ourselves, except when our govts need its people to fight wars, then we are all in it together.
@@evechurchill424 or when there is the need to bail out the markets and banking system, the losses are distributed among people. Then, may be can they take it may be considered.
Chinese is never a communist, market economy and specialisation happened more then 2000 years ago, communism is only one of the social experiments over the long history. To truly understand how China works, one must look to Confucius, especially currently with the crack down of big tech, tuition etc.
- in the Supremacist West, economics is pretty much about optimising a set of numbers which have little connection to actual reality as lived by the normal human being.
@@alexyeephengtan9386 I think you need to read Confucius again. ;-)
Let me contribute some thoughts to you, I grow up in the rich part of China at the time that China was still quite poor more than 40 years ago.
1, Chinese are good at small businesses Long before the communist exists. So market is not alien to us at all. The planned economy was mainly to solve the shortage of essential goods such as food and electricity and steel etc. It’s really very efficient for these things, but it didn’t work for the huge variety of daily goods or services.
2, although China was very poor at that time, but actually it was not that poor as you thought in USD. For example my family build the first 2 storey house in year 1984, at the cost of only 2000 RMB, which is only 1000USD in official exchange rate or even only 200 USD in black market rate. A 2 storey house’s real value doesn’t get reflected at it’s dollar price. We do suffer the shortage of variety of goods but not the basic ones. This is why reform and open up policy was really essential at that time. We need to bring in the supply of varieties to populate our shops and stores.
3, the Chinese TOP Politicians doesn’t trust the western world. They are very polite and humble to welcome the western investment so they didn’t express their deep beliefs that the western world always have a very bad intention behind their beautiful words. This deep belief got strengthened through the 1989.64 incident. Chinese leaders know exactly what they want from the west and what west what from them. Embrace the capitalist but keep the door secure for the politics was the basic rule. But the difference between today and that time is the common people’s thinking. Today everyone knows the west doesn’t want a better China in their heart no matter how beautiful they talks, but at that time really a lot of Chinese believed the western way was the right way. That’s why today you still can found so many migrated Chinese in the western world still insist their belief and acted very strongly against their Mother country. Because if the mainland Chinese lives a better life than them, it will means their mental world of faith and worship collapse. So they have to hope China get worse and collapse everyday to prove they are right.
these are some great points! Most americans dont realize that China has a higher functioning minimum wage than the US. I think the opening up, Hong Kong, and Macau, and the Sino-Soviet, split faked out the west long enough to allow PRC to get strong enough to survive destabilization attempts by the west
So true about cognitive bias. When expatriates see people back home in a better condition, they have a hard time accepting that they may have been wrong, or may have made suboptimal decisions.
My God what a bunch of nonsense. Centralization to solve shortages. I guess the great leap forward achieved that allright. lol
@@zenityquest8402 you mean the ones expatriated in Africa? lol
@@willingdealer that's some trolling...
WHEN YOU INVEST, YOU'RE BUYING A DAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK..
Assets that can make you rich;
Bitcoin
Stocks
Real estate
You're right Sir, it's obvious a lot of people remain poor due to ignorance, it's better to take risks and make sacrifices than to remain poor
It's not ignorance but due to some unprofessional broker in the market
@@robertelon306 Bitcoin is the most profitable investment online of only you trade with the help of a professional expert
I'm from Germany i have been an investor in the crypto market for over 4years now
Dr. Weber's opening line is so self-evident: "There is not one single blueprint for development that we can spread throughout the world, and this would solve the problem of development" but are in total opposition to what the West keeps shoving onto poor countries. Significantly, China's position has echoed her words: Study what we've done if you want, but you've got to develop your own model in line with your own history and state of development. That's far more open-minded than the "open" West.
As Deng said, "it doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice". China is a wonderful example of practicality and open-mindedness in terms of economics. Certainly there's ideology involved to some degree, but it seems to be far less than what goes on in the West. Perhaps being the leaders has made the West complacent.
That is the best understanding of the process of Chinese transformation in her economic model. The granuality of the planning and care for details are important reasons that China succedded. For example, in agricultural reform in 1980s, China rejected the US proposals to privatise land ownership in a big bang and chose only to liberate the distribution of earnings. This grandual approch proved to be very successful and avoided troubles in privatisation of land in the long run . Even now China still chooses making careful planing to suit the situations at local level rather than adopes some theory that applied to all over the country .
The Liberal system was relevant when resources were plentiful and margins were high. Unleash that onto a world with depleting resources and you realise that wastage and sub-optimum results are no longer tolerable.
Resources which were plentiful and cheap when looted from colonies. Colonies forced to hand over their cheap resources in exchange for overpriced finished good produced from their own resources.
In addition, these "colonial masters" have a ready made market with a complete monopoly for their finished goods whether in demand or not.
However, today it is a different world. Countries and former colonies are themselves producers. Many able to produce far cheaper themselves and at times more efficient. In addition, they now also have other choices for both export and import - China for one.
Bluntly put, today there is a whole new ball of wax - COMPETITION!
czcams.com/video/zLQUdJFqkSI/video.html
Reckless U
Exactly. So many don’t realise this simple point.
China has 1.4 Billion in her borders. To hv grown so fast AND so peacefully is an absolute testament to Chinese wisdom and morals.
Bingo!
I’m Chinese. I know China is heading to the right direction because its rapidly growing economy and the ever fierce criticism from the West.
you know what they say, " if you don't have any haters, you're not doing it right"
I'm not Chinese and I know that China is heading into the gutters as long as the CCP and your dictator Xi Jinping stays in power. The future is multi-laterism and co-operation. China has shown it's true colors to the world. China might have some technology is stole from the world and their people might use the internet, but make no mistake, it is a country that's still stuck in the medieval mindset.
@@MrKeyframes “The Future is multilateralism and cooperation” What do you think the “Belt and Road Initiative” is? It links multiple countries and continents. What do you think investing and loaning to poor countries is doing? Helping them build roads, railroads, ports, airports. Please speak from rational intelligence and not your emotions.
@@MrKeyframes hahahahahahahahahahahaha
@@MrKeyframes if you have chance, please come to China and have a look, we welcome you :)
To understand China's economic reform in the '80s, one must thoroughly study the policies implemented by Deng Xiaoping. When Deng came back into power and was assigned as the person in charge of the reform, he immediately pushed ahead with education reform and regroup the scientific community (which suffered a huge setback during the cultural revolution). Higher education levels then became the backbone of China and its ensuing economic reform. This smart move also showed everyone that he is not in to challenge the authority of the Communist Party.
Mo unified China except for Taiwan (admittingly made some mistakes along the way). Deng quietly elevated China from one of the poorest countries in the world to a middle-income country. Xi is loved by the Chinese people, despite constant smearing by the western MSM, and is leading us to a path of reawakening. We are fortunate to have these great leaders.
As a American citizen I agree that stealing of wealth we do the world with the banks is evil
The only question I have is worsening conditions what will the USA do
@@torfistrom4549 being a large militarily powerful country, the ideal solution would be to capture China, loot its wealth, make its large and intelligent population work as slaves in US to rebuild its infrastructure and space station in English, and make the country keep producing stuff at low or no cost (slave labor type of cost) to feed the demands of its wasteful population.
That’s why the determination to wage war against China. That’s the only way out for them.
@@torfistrom4549 you and me both
"Mo (sic) unified China except for Taiwan (admittingly made some mistakes along the way). .." the most spectacular whitewashing of history. Mao is the world's worst mass murderer who kept China in extreme poverty for decades whilst the rest of the World surged to wealth on the back of the post WW 11 boom. But for the US, China would still be part of the Japanese empire.
@@torfistrom4549 nothing until collapse
When the Western countries are crictizing you, you know you must be onto something good
*The China Model is unique to China. At the macro level, it cannot be copied. At the micro level however, there are lessons to be learnt such as methods of alleviating poverty, city planning and infrastructure development. There is absolutely nothing to be feared about China exporting its model. The arrogance of the Western doctrine is that everything is possible under the democratic model. The stark truth is that practical realities invariably stifle progress.*
No no no
The point is not China's model is unique to China.
The point is that there is no silver bullet, and nations all have their unique model.
@@yaxiongzhao6640 To become better, one should be able to learn from others than adapt it into their own system...people should understand that China is in fact has succeed this...
There are lots of books and books talking about how to win...but when it's about China, nobody dare to learn...As an outsider, I agree that other countries should accept that someone else is winning..and the best lesson like usually written in motivational books is that learn from the winners and apply and fit it into yourselves..
Surely ALL economic development requires a strong state to facilitate? It seems a peculiar Anglo-Saxon more of thinking to benefit from the structure a strong state provides only to turn around and denigrate the state.
Also, yes, the vital importance of understanding geographic variation! What an idiot Friedman must have looked to the Chinese policy-makers, who were concerned with their people's welfare and not just the academic exercise being contemplated by an overconfident and under-informed outsider.
That is the strange thing about many Western Democracies - the people curse the Gov but benefit from the Gov in ways that they don't even realize - e.g. infrastructure, welfare, health care, education, defence, security, etc. They want to kill the Gov, but in the end who is left to take up these responsibilities? Leave it to the Capitalists? Look at America now!
@@weeng1329 Where do you think they got this idea of killing the government from? The MSM owned by the capitalists.
Just yesterday I searched for the podcast of this book. I was so excited to see it just now!
Really interesting stuff, lots of good details about China's economy that I hadn't heard of anywhere else. Thanks for posting, I'll keep her book on my watchlist!
It's completely refreshing, given the continous "China bad" or "You must hate China" rhetoric coming out of Western thinktanks nowadays. It's quite clear that the speaker is not being funded by the US state department or the MIC.
@@jascforfun7576 *Shock Therapy* happens to be the medicine USA needs right now.
why have you not heard of this anywhere before ? Is it recently discovered by the west scolar ? I do not think so. What she is talking about is on the textbook of every middleschool in China.
" lots of good details about China's economy that [you] hadn't heard of anywhere else" because you are from either the UK or the US -- to be blunt. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think there are two deep core reasons making sure that China can escape the shock therapy: Chinese culture and the ability of progressively self-reform. As a Chinese, I know our culture emphasize cautiousness, we want to do things step by step after think twice. For self-reform, it is a real reason a system can exist. Soviet union losts it, then collapses.
I am still remembered during the asian financial crisis in late 1990s how Western economists were boasting on about the inherent supremacy and strength of the Westerna and US financial management and accountability. This was before the GFCs in 2008 and Euro debt crisis in 2012. Asian tigers (i.e. South Korea, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia) were bascially eviscerated by these same financial geniuses that advocated shock therapy for Russia.
How about quoting some Chinese economists than largely failed Western big name economists that have failed the Russian people as well as leading to M shaped societies in Western spheres. Reviewing China’s economic reforms of the last 40 + years and record shattering poverty alleviation, I’d say a few Nobel economics prizes are in order or the Nobel prize is a shame.
loool. My friend its to early to say that your system is better. Once, Chou Enlai said it was too early to comment on the impact of the french revolution. I guess you should follow his example and wait to see.
Mainstream economics in the US is purely ideological.
@@willingdealeris it? Talking about Biden onwards, right?
@@BOIOLA08 I’m talking about the U.S. as a whole.
@@willingdealer of Courteney, but post Biden, I'm sure.
ah finally a non-biased discussion on china. This is so rare these days....
Deng Xiaoping was the greatest mind of the 20th century, what he did for China was an absolute miracle.
I feel it will do well for the populace to realise how much Chinese cheaper goods contribute to their well being and how much the buying of their debt by China and thereby giving free goods to the US for paper money. If there is no China, the rest of the world's big economies will have to provide free goods for paper and they will get tired soon.
So what? After China, there will be another low cost manufacturer to increase our standard of living. China is replaceable and it’s already happening - South East Asia is the great benefactor of the exodus out of China. And guess what? None of those countries (bar Cambodia and Myanmar’s new junta) are friendly enough to China to care.
Nobody in the west will weep for China’s irrelevance. But thanks for the cheap goods to date.
@@weewillywonga too bad China is the biggest producer and maybe a top 2 consumer of goods at the same time. You claim of China being replaceable demonstrates your zero understanding of logistics and supply chain.
weewillywonga always amazed to see brainless people commented here
@@weewillywonga South east asia don't have enough land to extract every raw material required anyway to supply the West alone. + without China UK will run out of tea. (main goal of English people since long time ago) Hit the history book man you need it.
@@weewillywonga You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Wow I love Isabela Weber’s analysis. So factual, so clear and eloquent, now I actually feel like I understand this topic. Definitely going to read her book!!
The answer is very simple: trust themselves instead of the Americans.
One of the best concise and fair presentation on China's economic reform I've ever listened to. The speaker did a great job! It's interesting how she said Zhao Ziyang (@13:50), who was in charge of China's economic reform, and the subtitle writes Xiaoping.
In short, it's "中国特色社会主义".
If 1980 was the starting point where we cannot forget how poor China was, then I guess we cannot forget what brought China to that level of poverty in the first place, to name a few：the opium war, invasions and colonialism.
And close mindedness.
Close mindedness lead to weaker tech n military, thus losing opium war.
Also, the govt was kinda corrupt back then.
If there were no opium wars or foreign invasion, china probably gonna fall into civil war again and change dynasty. Opium war just hasten the process....with more collateral damage than ordinary civil war...
@@eleethtahgra7182 What a cunning way to cover up how much wealth the Western powers and Japan had robbed of China's aggression and unfair trade, as well as the astronomical loss of reparations. I haven't even mentioned the countless treasures they robbed from China.
China was poor (relative to industrialized countries) before that too.
@@mistyfuture4925 Dude, china got robbed cos they were weak. Their govt corrupt and refuse to upgrade their military. Thus they lost. Thus they got robbed.
I did say that its was worse than ordinary civil war. At least, in such situation, the wealth only change hand between the chinese. After opium war, the wealth got taken out of china.
I much appreciate the high caliber of this presentation, demonstrating a very level of understanding about China. Congratulations to the speaker. You have added a lot to the discourse on the subject. I will seek out more of your presentations.
Great summary and story telling of the China miracle.
This is a really good analysis overall. As a Chinese, I don't think most people in the West appreciate the enormous transformations that China had undergone in the last 4 decades. And while China is now (largely) a market economy not too different from the rest of the world, there remains an enormous sense of hope, mission, and destiny among ordinary Chinese people that is really lacking in the West. Development, prosperity, national rejuvenation, and socialism--they aren't just slogans, but genuine beliefs and hopes of the Chinese people. We have Deng to thank for that.
what you said is exactly the reform experience in China from1980s-1990s .
Basically, its all thx to all the prediction of how china's economy gonna fail. With all those warnings, they could prevent any domino effect.
Thx. Gordon chang. Even tho people like you become a joke in china, you helped alot with your dooms day prediction (even tho its inaccurate) in avoiding pitfalls when china was moving forward.
Every time Gordan predicts China's collapse, China just gets stronger. He is a reverse voodoo doll. I love him for helping China so much.
@@likeforsure lol yeah. And americans buy his book, the msm advertise it freely.
We gotta thank the usa for supportin n providing advices...for free, paid by american citizens.
Gordon Chang is just a western propaganda machine from CIA to fool your westerners...They intended to fool Chinese though, but we just don't buy it..
@@zhangyi5145
Funny thing is, despite the failure of his prediction, american masses still believe him.
I guess its true that the masses have short term memory (godfather-mario puzzo)
I always say that China should award Gordon Chang with the Medal of Friendship, and even consider building a statue for him. "The Coming Collapse of China" has contributed greatly to China's development. That book is fxxkin awesome! :D
Thank you
Shock Therapy sound like western medicine one pill for patient who has the same symptoms.
One may have to hold on to that theory for a while. For the case of Russia taking the shock therapy medication and treatment on the recommendation of the UN based economists and China seeking a 2nd opinion before deciding on the required medications and treatments; it should tickle one to question if what Russia had to go through were quack medications and treatments designed for the effects it had for Russia.
It's time for USA to take its own *Shock Therapy*
Super Vortrag, Frau Weber, Danke aus Freiburg. :-)
Ernsthaft
@@user-rh2pv2kc5g Warum nicht ernsthaft? Im vollen Ernst! :-) Ganz bestimmt sehen Chinesen ihre Entwicklung mit anderen Augen als wir, wie man unten lesen kann. Xi der geliebte Führer, der ein soziales Scoring für die Liebe braucht. Die ökonomischen Weichenstellung sind bestimmt sehr solide dargestellt. Gut ist der Hinweis unten, der auf die Bildungsanstrengungen hinweist und bestimmt ebenfalls richtig ist. Grüße nach China?
@@1966masy gut.sich gerne kennenzulernen ....danke aus Berlin.lol...😀
Thanks for this highly informative presentation!
Long terms strategy's, unlike in capitalism where's every new administration takeovers, policies changes as well, meaning short term policy.
You really have no idea what happens in China. There is absolutely no any long term strategy, it's all BS.
@@maximshukanov3267 and you probably never been to China in your life
@@leedshuaren lol, have you ever been on Moon? Then you should never ever talk about it! XD I don't even understand if you're kidding or are you for real))) And I've been to China and I know its politics better than most of people. It's just regular dictatorship. One dictator falls - everything will change an they won't have any long-term-strategy BS.
@@maximshukanov3267 can't blame you because all of your knowledge regarding china are all crafted propaganda fed to you without you knowing and which led you to believe that you came to these conclusions on your own.
Also your moon analogy is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
@@maximshukanov3267 Well said, you just need zigzag policy to progress.
Excellent food for thought
Mao:" We cannot be the tail of people, We must read the trend and plan to satisfy the need of people even before they asked."
This feature still remains in CPC. Many western critics of CPC policy as against people's will in some part, but many measures it takes are trend they read and preparing for that trend ahead of asking.
Western democracy was able to do it once, but now with the increasing of Mass media demagogue and Internet conspiracies, Populism will continue to grow and hinder long term planning and action capability of the western world.
China was affected by the shock therapy greatly. In this thread, many people praised how smart or intelligent Deng was, yet he also made grave mistakes in the economic reform in 80's. Luckily, Chinese were wise that we only administered half dose of shock therapy onto our system, and were constantly adjusting the practice along the way. The whole 64 event in 1989 was people's protest to the outcome of the shock therapy: the price reform was failed and caused huge inflation.
The 1989 political turmoil was actually a color revolution. Their appeal was a change in the political system (they wanted to force the Communist Party to agree to adopt Western capitalist private ownership and multi-party election systems). Criticism of official corruption or people’s livelihood issues was just an excuse at the beginning. .
A bright, smart German lady. They have so many ❤️❤️
Deng XiaoPing's reform principle was 'cross the river along the step stones', there were moments the country almost got drowned (1989), but he quickly realized and rectify the mistakes.
America created that work of art in 1989
Compliments of the CIA
谢谢
By being a humble student of recent history
Don't forget: shock therapy=unfettered exploitation of market by private capital 😱
To China with Love all ❤️🌹and many more years to come.
Funny thing is when I look at the western history, I see the same logic in our history long ago, including the current conflict between the 2 parties in US, very same as 1620s in Ming Dynasty.
The advantage of western civilization is the systemic category of studies. And every branch of the science tree gets strong and fruitful.
The advantage of China is we have never been an entity exclusively for short-term money or other kind of wealth. We are a country but not just a country, more or less we have some duty in our gene, to keep our civilization as long as forever and keep our position as we are used to be. And what is the position? It should never be defined as bully, it's always the collaboration, since if we look at our earth from the universe perspective, we human beings and all creatures on earth we are the sole.
The West is talk and talk and talk and plan. Chinese is do first.... and plan later. Chinese mentality is total different from West. Even in sentence structure, Chinese is opposite of English. Chinese understand both way of structure.... but do his own things.
So true...as chinese descendants...my parents always complain when we as their kids talk only and they call us NATO (No Action Talk Only) LMAO!!!...i think it's embedded in our DNA wherever we go..my parents believe in do and try it first..if there is error, fix it and make it works...you will always learn something new...
USA is here to have a good time!!
China was here for a long time and is looking forward for a much longer time.
China in all it's existence has been weak, divisive, always at war. There have been a few "glorious" moments in Chinese history and historically these were not even 'han' peoples that led. The han people have historically been always weak, used for cannon fodder and slave labor by it's own rulers. Sure, China has been for a long time but that doesn't mean it's been great. You need to learn what crtiical thinking is.
The west is up for no good for China, the only thing they want is to maintain their dominance, the Chinese people are smart to know this.
You seem to be an amazing German Professor.
Cheers. Cheers.
其实不同国家、文化是有传承性的，会影响一代又一代的该文化下的人的行为、群体的行为。例如为何德国人历经两次世界大战，都能很快地将其工业发展起来？非洲各国在人类历史上，文化、政治、经济、科技等等都没有很先进的贡献、成果？....
美国这样的国家，强行将其自身政治制度、意识形态几乎当成了religion来输出到其他国家，注定是徒劳的，甚至给阿富汗、伊拉克、叙利亚这样的国家带来了深厚的战争灾难。
中国人（历史至今该片大陆上的人）文化上一直都是有传承性的，例如喜欢储蓄，注重子女教育，比较勤劳等等；只要是和平年代，都能很快商贸经济发展起来。
最近的对于科技行业的限制"so called crackdown of tech in china"...也只是因为防止经济空心化。副总理刘鹤（Liu He）提到了Baumol's disease，
”就国家全局而言，互联网不断拓展新边疆，对产业发展、经济结构、社会生活产生深刻影响，为经济社会发展带来广阔新机遇。但其迅猛发展特别是无序扩张，也带来了一系列负面问题。不难看出，鲍莫尔病的分析框架是以追求绝对效率为理论预设，其必然趋势就是资本流向回报率更高的金融行业和实体经济空心化，对数字经济时代而言，就会出现技术与资本合流形成的“技术利维坦”（Tech Leviathan），不断向其他相关行业拓展延伸。如若缺乏规范和监管，势必会出现垄断、窒息竞争、妨害包容性增长。“
in summary, any policy and institution should be implemented precisely, it depends on the country's condition
Insightful
Isabela Weber is such a creat scholar and amazing person. Invite her more.
More with Isabela coming soon!
Really good example of macroeconomics not being a science but more of different magical schools of economical thinking.
Yes, its reasonable. Chinese leaders, probably not very lovely or respectable, realized in 1980s the real problems among chinese and the nation itself, and keyed to it. And luckily it worked. Ten years of hard working under right policy has changed everything through the country.
I wonder why Zhao's name was replaced by Deng's in the caption
I would like to suggest the one who want to analysis China, please study the history of China first. I do like to listen the analysis from different point of view, which may help us to reconize something we may miss.
thanks for comrade Gobachev, he showed us what happens when u trust the west.😎
I can't really take mainstream economists seriously :) :) . Study of ecomics is mostly a joke. Most of their models have nothing to do with how the real world actually works
the problem is said if you want to make a economic model to see if austerity before or hurt economic output, one economist will make a model that said austerity increase nation output, and other will make a slightly different model with slightly different math that said austerity decrease national output. the important part is the process that they come to their conclusion not the result, however most people don't understand economics to know wtf they are talking about, and if do understand economics you still need mathematics to understand their model. so for the average population and politicians they are not gonna understand shit.
"ecomics"
Every country has its own unique social, cultural, economic and historical conditions. Ofcourse shock therapy is first and foremost about western capitalist/neocolonialist expansion. It's then no surprise to see the wrong policies applied "You cannot simply take a policy implemented iin one country and apply in another".
what is Shock Therapy
Trash economics .
Brings untold suffering on one's own country.
Is only used to subvert and destroy countries.
Ex Yugoslavia and USSR
Moral of the story never listen to liberals whose mission is to subvert your country and cause irreversible damage.
She has done her homework!
The background is that Deng saw Mao's Shock Therapy in the 1950's that made China to become the poorest country in the world. Deng is not a believer in Shock Therapy.
Learn English. Her shock therapy is the Milton Friedman’s shock therapy.
How can a plan economy shock? It’s planned for God’s sake.
@@hansweissmann6387 So that's all you can say, HANS??
It was never a shock therapy in the Soviet Union's sense. The whole process was throughoutly designed, monitored and supervised. The top leaders in China were not like their Russian counterparts who apprantly completely fell for the idea of "Westernization".
at 14:20 is zhao ziyang not xiao ping
The classical role of government is to tax away economic rents and use it to lower the cost of production. This is done through subsidies for such things as public infrastructure, education, and health care, not raising the cost of living and therefore the cost of labor, as with monopolistic privatization.
The problem with economics as it is understood in America, is that there is no distinction between wealth production and wealth extraction. Production of goods and services speaks for itself, but monopolies and the banks (FIRE, finance, insurance, and real estate) extract what is called economic rent. The free market Adam Smith talked about is free FROM economic rent, not free FOR economic rent.
This is Chinese Economic Policy as opposed to American Financial Capitalism favoring the rentier class, and it is what the conflict is really all about.
American democracy is entirely theatrical with the majority having no more effect on the rentier oligarchy than the Chinese majority on the Communist Party of China.
If the US was a democracy, we would have a decent minimum wage, public health care, free education, parental leave, and gun control, to name a few, all by popular demand.
It always fasinates me how these non Chinese speaking scholars get their first hand data, do their work actually add onto what the Chinese scholars has already studied so extensive or just serve as an English translation?
Good question
是啊，都是林毅夫的改革总结，现在中国被研究深了以后，一些学者几十年前的文章重视重新发掘出来了。
Ask Michael Hudson.... China is a mixed economy, the state controls key industries to keep living coasts down while allowing private companies to grow...the West is sick of financial capitalism and rentire economy....where a small group of people drives living costs and salaries up, a result the west loses competitiveness. It's simple look at Ricardo and Adam Smith and you see you have to make a difference between productive income and unproductive speculative income, the west took the wrong road in the 80s with Regan and Tatcher make money with money since then everything went down the road...China doesn't win because of communism but because of industrial capitalism.
What is shock therapy exactly?
Wholesale overnight change of everything (e.g., pricing), vs gradual cautious reform
ORIGINALLY, IT MEANS TO USE ELECTRIC SHOCK ON PATIENT TO CURE SOME SICKNESS. THAT IS WHY IT IS CALLED SHOCK THERAPY. HOWEVER, SOME TIME THE PATIENT MAY NOT SURVIVE THE ELECTRIC CURRENT SHOCK.
for a second there I was very confused regarding this "ketchup development"
Without China z usa regime would have lost humiliatingly horrible to the mighty ussr then
40 years ago, when most of China was dirt poor, China was largely ignored and we overseas Chinese were given pariah treatment in western nations. However, in the last ten years, something has gone terribly wrong. China is developing so fast, so advanced, her people are so prosperous; wtf!!! So every week, there will be talks, discussions and endless videos on China. Suddenly the whole world is talking abt China, looking at China while some are making up lies & false stories and slandering China and her excellent leadership. I know, it's because it's unacceptable for any of us Chinese to be (more) successful but that's how it is now. Stop your hateful rhetoric against Communism - the reality is, Communism is superior system to your so-called democracy. If you understand meritocracy, you will understand China's system of governance. There is no room for mediocre standards and raving mad, jealous idiots.
Its not Shock Therapy , it is just shock
She couldn't have said it better in the first 1 min, that there is no one system that works for all country. US should learn from this and not try to impose its political and economical ideals on others.
Ah, but thats the goal. The more chaotic the situation is, the easier it is for usa to pull the strings.
The reason that China didn't choose "Shock Therapy" was mainly because of our culture. Chinese people don't believe that there is such a "shortcut" for national governance. Speaking to "National governance" We have our own philosophy, we have our own culture, we have our own experience which was accumulated during our 4000-5000 years history. We don't need to seek therapy from outside.
Totally agree with you.
We don't have to follow the western models because we have all we need, which are all documented in the magnificent ancient books and the long-lasting history of thousands of years, to overcome all the challenges lay ahead of us.
底氣充盈，外邪不侵。
中國在自己的道上，穩穩走自己的路。
Its simple, china strongly supported the communism party while USSR did not.
One of the biggest takeaways of this book is that the East European "dissidents" who also advised the Chinese during reform were as neoliberal or more than the openly capitalist Western Friedmanites. Thank God they listened to Chen Yizi instead lol.
At 14mins or so, I think she meant Zhao Ziyang, then Premier of China, but not Deng Xiaoping.
Isn't the question of how China escaped "shock therapy" a question more in the realm of politics rather than economics? Logic flows from values. I assume the disaster created by shock therapy was more of a feature of the policy for its advocates rather than a bug.
Almost no successful country are built through shock therapy while those who adopted failed miserably, best example: Russia.
Maybe shock therapy is flawed by its nature
Secret: just not hearing US tips
Economic hitman Milton Friedman
*Speaks in China
Deng and his entourage
* Does opposite of what that lunatic says
this is deep
That is why they love Gorbachev so much.
Actually the assessment of China in 80 is not quite accurate. Chinese value calculation is different but China has had massive and complete industry system already, even though the level of technology and productivity are low due to its compensation system. In fact, the state owned corporations never changed or dissapeared, and are still main part of the economy. One thing is changed is the market openness, and China imposed private economic elements in areas that the government is not directly in control. Most private companies today are due to the help or corruption from those big companies. One you won't miss, like Huawei.
How China escaped Jeffrey Sachs. Honestly, how does JS sleep at night?
You dont know what you are talking about or rather your understanding limited. Jeffrey Sachs analyzed correctly and has advocated to engage China constructively instead of confrontational.
He didn't escape Russia though. And he is now a strong advocate of the China experience.
She is nothing but a theorist. Good only for academics.
Limits to Growth explains everything. We're screwed and tattooed.
China is the most successful one among all the economies transferred from planned economy to market economy.
China did not just liberalised it economy, instead it created Shenzhen SEZ.
the reason is simple, if Shenzhen fails, it doesn't hurt the country economy, if it succeed, it is a proof of concept to be replicated.
but that is risk management, what drove China highspeed development is really what everyone know: Education.
China made Education a public good. even before Deng Xiaoping, education and healthcare has been improving, these are the base to which development is carried.
Healthcare > Education > Market LIberalisation > Infrastructure > Standardization.
The worry should be how some of the Western societies are actively trying to disrupt how China becomes economically powerful. The competitive nature of the West is all based on how to make other people look bad, and oneself better. Whereas Chinese society does not exault competition, rather they prefer cooperation. Since competition comes from the human motivator of vengence, it is based on a emotional rational, rather than an intellectual one. The Silk Road was a mature supply chain allowing people to prosper all along it. That was a historically known trade market for thousands of years. It was disrupted, only in the recent few hundreds of year resulting in chaos in many parts of the Silk Road, of which only in recent times being reestablished. A free market that stretched thousands of miles, which affected millions of people, endured historically as a good source for trade to a significant number of the human population across the world, should be encouraged by all, and expanded to new markets that were not on the Old Silk Road.
How did China learn nothing from USSR's collapse? That's imposible no to learn from other's failure.
Westoids love to ignore that.
They have their own schizophrenic episodes
She is not only a beautiful woman,but also a wise human
It was a shock destruction not a therapy.
People who know things would tell you the details.
All of these were not the ultimate test.
In fact many countries overcame those challenges or they've had better foundations of economic structures and industrial capabilities .but they all crumbled facing
the final boss:
beacon of freedom and democracy
To survive him you need to be able to do the following
1 . Prove that you can hold up a conventional war (with allies if you can find any) against him&its allies .So that he would fear the cost of a full on world war to going after you and your allies.
Two . prove that you can hold up an unconventional war a guerilla war that could drag him in the mud (in the case if 1 is not an option ) .So that there is a chance he would leave you alone eventually .
3 . Surviving though sanctions & isolation
Sanctions are designed to make ppl poor so that they would agree to go against their own government similar with short a company with capital
Isolating you from the world by exporting ideology & misinformation in order to make countries with possible interventions stand by.
4 . handling unofficial activities lead by agencies with diverse options
(Assassination / funding terrorism/separatism in the country/ planning movement/colour revolution by coaching their leaders who were puppets/corrupt your government officials.)
Well .. that's about it
So shock therapy
Wasn't really that hard right?😮
The foundation of economy is people's hard work, and Chinese are diligent. That is why China economy is booming, not some magic.