The best countersink drill bit in the world ?
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2021
- This alternative Weldon type from Banggood is an absolute game changer. Excellent.
The one to get : Drillpro M35 Cobalt Countersink Drill Bit -- bit.ly/3zr2YU8
Drillpro 7pcs 5-10mm HSS Titanium Coated M6 Countersink Drill Bit -- bit.ly/3gp89wo
Banggood Afterpay Sale -- bit.ly/2TAuRJx
Banggood Summer Prime Sale -- bit.ly/3A427Js
Camera: Nikon L820 - Jak na to + styl
Note: These are apparently called Weldon type countersinks or cross hole countersinks. Cheers Rob
Why would you approach the work with the drill going like the clappers before it touches the wood? I have used all the types of bits that you demonstrated , all with fairly good results on wood but I would speed the drill up after contact, not before.
The thinking started with "Hey, when I'm deburring I notice the bit sometimes gets stuck and stalls unless I have the momentum of the motor shaft contributing to the cut. I'm going to make it a standard practice to always start the drill before getting to the hole."
This is what you need to do to chamfer wood if you only had a drill to do it. Use the larger chamfer drill first to the depth you’d need and then drill the smaller hole. That way you won’t have the problem of digging and pulling in. Of course like everything else having the proper tools is always best.
Thanks. That confirms what I have found from experience. I got two HHS bits, of the better type, a while back and haven't looked back. Gonna have to figure out how to sharpen them though as watching this I realise that they don't cut as well as they used to.
I think Cobalt is the way to go.
Thanks for sharing! My cross hole countersink is a handy down from my father. I first noticed it in the 60's but it's possible that he made in mechinist class that he went through in the 50's.
I thought it was something new as I had never seen one before. Very impressed with the ease and smoothness of use in any situation. Gets my vote. Cheers Rob
I have been using this countersink since the 1970’s. They are Weldon countersinks available in 90* for metric flathead screws. In the US generally for deburring and pretapping countersink. US application 82* for a flathead screw which is standard for UNF screws. They are also available in piloted versions. Best countersink I have ever used especially for metal applications. Also very good on UHMW , phenolic and many plastics. Extra care should be taken when using on soft wood applications
Thanks for the info Joseph. This style is all new to me. Cheers Rob
I need to buy these! I pass em every time and I haven't looked into it but now I know that's a tool I need.
Hi Rob. For years I used countersink bits like your old one. They work well but you really do have to get the speed right to avoid chatter. Then about a year ago I saw someone using those new ones with the hole on a CZcams video (think it was Ade) so I thought I'd give them a try. Bought a 3 size set and they are all I use now, give a great finish on all materials, brilliant tools. Hopefully your video will introduce them to some more folk. Cheers, Alan.
Hi Alan, I totally agree with you. The cross hole one does an excellent job in any situation, with absolutely no chatter, clean edge, no tearing. I'm sure a lot of people have not seen them. They only seem to come up when searching for "de-burring drill bit".
Being Cobalt it should stay sharp for a long time. My old HSS one is pretty beat up after 40 years use. I might investigate re- sharpening it with my small TPG. Cheers Rob
Hey Rob. Thanks for the Demo. I have a set of zero flute counter sinks. I love them!
Joe
They are amazing Joe.
Got the same thru hole countersink and it worked like a champ when having to do 200 countersink m5 holes . Thank you so much for making this video! It save me bunch of time and money.
Glad it helped. I smile every time I use mine. They are really good. Cheers Rob
@@Xynuduthat’s awesome to here! You earn my subscription. Again appreciate you sharing your findings.,
Thanks Rob for a nice Demo Video. I bought a set of 4 of these from Victor Machinery Exchange, a USA Machinery Tool website a month ago. I went on the site to buy an unusual tap and die size that I needed for a project. The die wasn’t enough to meet their minimum order requirement; so, after looking around I bought a set of four “de-burring drill bits” to meet the minimum order. I haven’t tried them yet, but, after watching your video, I am sure glad that I did so. Cheers 🤠
I don't see how you can wrong with the cross hole design regardless of how you use them. Super smooth and clean cutting. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, I have used these cross hole deburring tools in the machineshop since the early seventies. Generally used for deburring holes as they don't have the tool life of the multi edge countersink bits for repetitive countersinking in steel, especially if working 350 grade boiler plate or higher grade steel alloys. The multi edge countersink tools need the work piece clamped rigidly on hole centre to work effectively, well that has been my experience working with these tools. Cheers, BADOLDBIKER.
Thanks for the comment. All stands to reason and I concur with your observations.
These BG ones are made out of Cobalt 35, so they should last longer, but time will tell. I've never seen the cross tube type in any Oz tool shop (even though Sutton make some). They seem more common in the rest of the world. Maybe I've just led a sheltered life ;) Cheers Rob
The last one is ment for deburing but it's so smooth I prefer to use it for its not intended purpose
Hi Rob, good demo. They are cross hole c/sinks as I believe some of your other viewers have said. I made myself a set back in 1989 (still got them). I think I showed them in one of my very early videos (toolbox tour I think). They are good but only having the one cutting edge, they wear out much quicker. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon, thanks for the info. Time will tell I guess. These are cobalt 35 so that should make a difference. The cutting edge being curved has a different slicing action compared to the straight flute type and I think that's how the chatter aspect is overcome as experienced with a regular coarse cutter. I'm going to try to sharpen my 40 year old HSS multiflute countersink using a small TPG today, so there may be another video (if it's successful). Cheers Rob
I use the three cutter countersink bits with good results, a bit of cutting fluid helps.
Very impressive " 3 more tools to add to the collection "
Thanks for sharing regards Sleepy
Yes, definitely worth getting Sleepy. I was similarly impressed. Cheers Rob
Thanks for posting Rob. I’ve put my order in with Banggood to give one a try. Hope you’re ok. Regards. Chris.
You won't be disappointed Chris. Works a treat. I'm motoring on OK. Cheers Rob
G'day Rob and thanks for sharing buddy 👍I have the 4th one with 2 "flutes" in a set of sizes, all I use now
G'day Ralfy, do they make the cross tube type with two tubes ?
Yes Rob, I think mine came from one of the uk tool shops on Ebay. RDG or Chronos tools
OK thanks for that Ralfy. I have some RDG scissor knurls that are pretty good. I will keep that in mind. These should last me a while ;) Cheers Rob
G'day Rob, ok I checked and even did a little segment in todays video about these
Mine aren't 2 flute ffs lol, 🙄 their the same as yours lol 😆
Gday Rob, I have countersinks in both them types and I’m really impressed with the single flute type, I’m not sure of the exact name but they really work well, thanks for sharing these tools, Cheers
Hi Matty, I agree. My old conventional multi flute one works great, but needs a sharpen. It's only those coarse flute ones that jump around when hand held, regardless of speed. Cheers Rob
I bought a small set of these about 2 years ago, and they would not cut butter they were so soft that I threw them in the trash. I've never seen the cobalt ones before, and looking at your results Rob, I'd buy one and give it a try.
I've since tried them on aluminium to break the corners of some aluminium lathe handles I machined up and I did it just holding with my fingers. They cut well. Cheers Rob
Just as a precaution as you can see in almost every instance here you cannot trust that your countersink bit will simply self centre
You should take all precautions to centre it yourself in every axis, you can see the chamfers on at least 3 of those holes are not centre to the bore
In order to counteract this the vice should be secured to a press table firstly, align your jobber up
and then you should drill the hole, swap out the jobber for the countersink cutter and then countersink to your desired depth without moving the workpiece
(a crank drill press table is very nice in this case as you can higher and lower the workpiece without moving it away from centre after you have made the bore)
This ensures repeated centres between bits, I know this video was done as a quick comparison between countersink bits but if any newbies are watching this is the correct way to ensure your bit is cutting precisely.
Hello Rob,
A nice well balanced review... Thank you...
Cheers.
Paul,,
Glad you enjoyed it Paul. Cheers Rob
At least for the set I have, those cone shaped bits wear pretty fast in steel. They give me amazing results in aluminum/brass and some plastics. They stay centered and don’t chatter even in a hand drill.
These are cobalt so I expect a long life. Time will tell. Cheers Rob
Agree with your assessment, Rob. The cobalt single flutes are the best, but for all of the countersinks, have found that they produce less chatter/walking when run slower than the pilot drill (especially the Banggood Ti multi-flute type). The old HSS multiflutes only seem to work well brand new and dead sharp.
Hi Daniel, I looked at sharpening my 40 year old multiflute, but it seems difficult. An oil stone corner edge might be possible to freshen the faces. Maybe I could use a small tool post mounted die grinder for back relief, same as I do for endmills. I will have to investigate further. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Hi Rob , good idea. I think a video on the whole procedure of sharpening these tools would be great. I know you have done some before but it would be a great refresher as well. Thanks
Dale in Canada
Hi Dale, I re-sharpened it today, but didn't video it as I had some issues using the TPG. I had to try another tack on it as the runout in the bit was so bad it caused some serious alignment issues. You can see it wobble in the video.
In the end I had to re-machine the cone accurately with the TPG, then grind the back relief for each flute on by hand using the 8" bench grinder. It wasn't really very interesting or easy to film, so no video I'm afraid. Sorry to disappoint but such is life. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Have to give you credit for the attempt, Rob. Not sure how common these old countersinks are Down Under, but they're readily available and cheap as dirt here in the States. I may have a go at resharpening when I get my T&C grinder up and running.
Rob, I think #2 in your lineup is getting short shrift because its well-worn. That style has worked well for me in wood for years. Even better is a similarly-shaped three-fluted design, but the only one I had is now useless, and I can't find them anymore. Never tried the cross-hole type, although I have one or two in my toolbox from job-lot purchases--Thanks for showing how well they actually work.
Hi Rick, I did put a caption in the video about the wear on my 40 year old HSS one, which I'm not knocking, and has worked well over that time. That is a 5 flute bit with no bouncing around and chatter. The BG ones are 3 flute and bad news for both when hand held. The newbie cross hole one is totally vice free and I was thinking some people may be unaware of them (same as me).
Glad to share the good news. Cheers Rob
Best ones I've seen are the angled 6 flute ones, very expensive though.
Dont get too excited about them, I have had a set for many years and I find that if you dont stop and clean the hole out after each cut you will end up with an oval hole, I took them to the tip but they rejected them, so it is back to the old style rose cutter now.
David
I've tried them all and wasn't impressed by their performance so I decided to go for the single cutter countersink and what a world of difference it made! Will never use any other style ever again.
Totally agree. They are awesome. Cheers Rob
Great video, im sold! Just ordered from banggood for the first time.
These are the best. Awesome. Cheers Rob
With the course countersink (i.e. number 3) try running the drill in reverse to avoid the chatter, for wood anyway. never done it on metal.
I think you're right about the process order. The only way you could accurately drill the countersink is on a milling machine. On a drill press, the counter sink is relying on the hole as a pilot to index the countersink in the right location. There's simply not enough rigidity
also the hole trough style you can self resharpen with next to no sharpening experience, just lay em flat on sandpaper and roll. for the inside hole get a dowel and sandpape and well you know the rest. stupidly easy and such a superior tool!
Come now Rob the wood test was grossly a bodge job, no one I know starts a drill if countersinking well above the hole and then tries to line it up. As for the Cross hole bits they are off centre and must be used in a machine chuck or you end up with of centre counter sink holes. Time you sharpened that old fluted bi too.
Ive had a set since the mid 70s they have been around for years,, where did you get the Eagle oil can ? Regards Frank
I had never seen them before Frank. Totally outclass the conventional fluted ones IMHO.
The Eagle oil can came from Alan at Retro Steam Tech in the UK as a surprise. I sent him my best Rega pumper oil can as a thank you. Both are great oil cans. Most of the news ones are total rubbish. Cheers Rob
Thanks Rob, hadn’t seen one being used before , look like a great bit to have 👍
I was very impressed with it Colum. Easily did the best job, especially hand held. Awesome.
I found the countersink drill bit with the hole on ebay but it says it is not recommended to be used with a hand drill. Any comments about this?
I have not heard that before and never tried it. I don't know if it's correct. The countersink seemed to work OK at very slow electric drill RPM on wood. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob. Not used the cross hole bits, but I do have a set of brand name (dormer) bits of a similar design to the other banggood bits that chattered for you. Mine don't chatter at all, despite being basically the same, my guess would be there's geometry issues on the bits you got.
There's another type, specific to a given diameter of pilot drill, it's a one or 2 flute "classic" style countersink bit with the centre drilled out, and sat on a bit of drill rod. the only thing I've found that will give a decent countersink handheld, as it's piloted by the hole.
I do have to echo the other comments about attacking a countersink in wood with the drill running full chat - that's not going to end well.
With coarse cutters it's going to bounce around regardless. My old high multi flute works no problem at speed (as seen). Just needs a sharpen. Next project. Cheers Rob
SAE countersink angle is 82 degrees…..metric is 90 degrees
There are 100 and 120 countersunk fasteners in aviation catalogs if you're in softer materials.
i used the zero flute countersinks in the US of A 1980, it is not that new;
First time I've seen them. Search on "countersink drill bit" and it's all regular fluted bits that come up. Cheers Rob
Drill bit the counter sink first in wood then the hole
Good demonstration. Thanks for the look.
Thanks for watching!
These have been around for quite a while, I have a very old one floating around somewhere ;-) Yep, they work well, I wish I could find it, somewhere in storage, after 3 moves :-(
Not sure why you 'plunge' the countersink, at speed, instead of placing it against the workpiece and turning it on while applying light pressure...that avoids that bouncing around you get when it's not right on centre as you 'plunge' the bit...only thinking.
Hand held it will bounce around at slow speed using those coarse fluted bits. I showed that in the video with the Banggood titanium coated set.
I concur - I would never plunge a countersink bit into soft wood. For soft wood I prefer a hand driven countersink bit. I also belive your old countersink bit to be overly blunt causing the problems encountered.
Yes, I have a text line about the wear on my old cutter in the video. You can see how it tore up the hole edge. It has done 40 years work and never been sharpened ;) First time I've noticed all the runout in that USA made product, but thankfully the ground taper part is fairly true. Cheers Rob
Have you tried countersinking in Steel by hand?
Yes. No problem. Pick the size and do it. I've even turned the countersink by hand/fingers on brass and aluminium and it works great. By far the best I've ever used. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu thank you
I have no dang idea why you are starting the drill up first before doing the countersink. That's just counter intuative. Talking about the hand drill.
The thinking started with "Hey, when I'm deburring I notice the bit sometimes gets stuck and stalls unless I have the momentum of the motor shaft contributing to the cut. I'm going to make it a standard practice to always start the drill before getting to the hole."
Prefer his way on steel.
The fist one is for timber only the second one is a good all rounder but mainly for steel counter sinking
The third one is made for deburing more than countersinking but will work for both just not ideal
That why you wouldn’t see the cross hole version in you searching try searching for deburing bit not countersink
The cobalt one is advertised as for countersinking and de-burring. Did a great job of countersinking.
@@Xynudu a shifter is not a bad hammer either but dose not mean that’s what it was designed for
I don’t understand why you don’t set the bit in the hole before you press the trigger. It’s going to bounce back if you press the trigger without pressing it up against the wood…
I find it's more likely to bounce/chatter at low speed.
How's the cutting pressure on that last one?
Very light.
@@Xynudu I got my order in, thanks for the review. Will you be upsizing to a larger lathe in the future? I've been aware of your channel for over a decade!
I have no intention or need to get a larger lathe. The 10" swing Chinese lathe handles everything I need to do no problem. It's pointless buying larger than you need and is actually a hindrance in many ways. Cheers Rob
1) 🙄put the drill in the hole first before drilling hit lol 7:51
Great demo video.
Glad you liked it! Cheers Rob
bugger, you must of sold a few of those M35's for them, out of stock when I had a look!
I thought they would sell like hot cakes. Really good item. Cheers Rob
That is called a "cross hole countersink" They've been around for a while and are easy to make in the workshop too unlike the other designs.
Thanks for clarifying that Sam. First time I've seen them. Way better than the fluted type - from my observations. Cheers Rob
Thanks. I found mine in a joblot of tools and never knew what they were called.
They only seem to come up when searching for "de-burring drill bit". All you get is the regular fluted type when searching for "countersink drill bit". Strange, as they do both jobs equally well. Being Cobalt they should last a long time. Cheers Rob
I first saw the cross hole countersinks at least 26 years ago at work. Found to be very sharp and worked well but bloody expensive at the time, still a bit expensive today.
Best wishes from the UK
@@Xynudu I know them as a Weldon style countersink.
I've been using cross hole cs bits for a few years and they are so much better than more traditional cs bits. For your hand drill demo, your results are predictable because of the technique you used. I would always place the cs bit in the drilled hole before activating the drill when countersinking with a hand drill.
Hi rob are you in the south or north of SA
South of Adelaide.
@@Xynudu OK, I live in Melbourne and have 2 sisters and a brother that live in SA
Willunga and McLaren Vale, and Hackem, are they close to you
I'm midway between Adelaide CBD and Hackem.
@@Xynudu OK thanks Rob. also I have another question, how to determent how big
a lathe is, e;g 10x24 or 7x14 I know the first number but the second number do you have to remove the chuck and put a live center and measure from that to tail stock center or do you just measure from end of chuck to live center in tail stock
It's usually the maximum distance between two dead centers (one in the spindle taper and one in the tailstock quill). So the size of the chuck fitted will reduce the overall available length by it's thickness. Not a lot of people use dead centers and drive dogs these days, but they are the most accurate for work repositioning and give the maximum length for the lathe. Cheers Rob
Should have tried some aluminum as well.
I have since and they cut it like butter.
@@Xynudu I thought maybe the one from Banggood with the Titanium coating may work better on aluminum with it's open profile.
It did a good job with no galling.
I'm not a professional woodworker - but even in my experience you would never approach a piece of material with the drill going flat out to countersink a hole -does not make any sense and just asking for trouble
You are using way too many RPM's
the ones you showed can be made to work but you left out the best countersink in the world. standard single flute and most common. Will do short video sometime today. The multiflutes the slightest wear you now have 3 or 4 flutes that start refusing to go in and they leave terrible burr. The one with the hole cant countersink small holes. The single flute will deburr a tiny hole perfectly all the way up to half inch or so. The others cannot be practically sharpened easy and have to thrown away after some use. The single flutes go almost forever and to sharpen a person can even do it by hand by grinding the rake face then you are good to go for another ten years. The single flute that come to a point you can also set the toolheight on a cnc and program them perfectly no need to check and adjust. The multiflute ones come to a terrible chopped off point cant be used on small holes.The one with hole worked well in perfect new situation with perfect size hole but generally they dull fast usually to be thrown away and no way to sharpen. The single flute I am talking about are the most common in the world at every home depot or anyplace used them for over 50 years and even in my core tools I have several in case I go to a shop where they dont have them.
Interesting info. How do single flutes go hand held ?
I hate slotted screws/bolts, they have no room in this realm!
To be fair;
- using a regular drill you don't put the machine at full-speed and then manually try tto hit the hole, you know beforehand that it will fail.
- the second coutnersink looks old and dull, and made for metal.
- same problem as the first, you seem deliberatly trying to make things difficult and then blaiming the tool :-)
Not saying the fourth tool is no good, just blaming the operator for most of the failures of the others :-P
Not really. All bits got the same treatment. Two did good and two did bad on freehand work. All did good with the pillar drill. Same situation for all once again. One clearly better drill bit with both applications. End of story. Cheers Rob