Being at the top isn't as great as it sounds. When you no longer code and are dealing with top-level, high risk issues all the time, you start to recognize that you have very little control and things become more and more unpredictable, which leads to much higher stress levels. So instead of "you can do whatever you want," actually it's "you can't do anything." The big issue here is that you no longer have access to mentors, because there's no one above you anymore. So a lot of people at the top choose to leave and go back to basics and build their own companies from scratch, so they have more control and are able to continue growing personally, or they move horizontally and start to integrate their experience into adjacent fields.
I would add that getting honest feedback from people also becomes more difficult based on the power dynamic that eventually creeps into the way people perceive you. It's hard to grow into a robust leader if your blind spots aren't being exposed. Culture and the people you choose to work with matters so much in this regard. My rule of thumb is, if you're the smartest person in the room, you should probably leave.
I just landed my first job at a tech company and the welcome letter said I was L2. I had no idea what that meant, but your video made it really clear. I've taught myself a lot about software/web development, computers and technology in general since befor high-school, but somehow I never came across anything about a software engineering ladder. Thanks for this.
I feel like anything past L5 has diminishing returns. At that point, you'll level up faster if you go down the management track. Most people don't get past L6, and managers get paid a lot more for a lot less work.
Firstly, it’s not guaranteed that managers make more than ICs. In fact, level for level, managers make about the same as ICs in most FAANG companies. Secondly, managers don’t do “less” work. They just do different work. Sitting in meetings for 10 hours a day every day of the week can also be taxing.
"Years of experience" can be more rigid or flexible depending on the company and the role you are interviewing for. Apple and Microsoft tend to be more rigid. Meta and and Google are more flexible. Amazon is kind of in the middle: they can be flexible for the right person. I had 4 years when invited to interview for a manager of data science at the L6 level at Amazon, and just under 5 years when invited to interview for an MLE tech lead (E6) at Meta. For me, the biggest barrier to big tech is the algorithms and data structures interview step. The onsite I've been excited to talk about my experiences, but haven't passed the algorithms interview step yet. I studied physics, economics, and statistics in school, but I've never taken a formal computer science class before. So I get a lot of anxiety and forget half of what I studied. The onsite would cover things I've actually done rather than studied, so for me that's a lot less stressful.
Another great video. Like the correspondence between levels and the impact surfaces. Super clarifying. A very good template to look at from impact perspective instead of the compensation perspective.
Hey Namanh, I have been watching your videos since you began youtube.Love the content you are provide. much different then other engineer youtubers. Great work !!
Working as a software engineer in a 3rd world country, I knew from my friends that I'm working alot more with much less structure compared to them in big companies I just didn't know my company was giving me the responsibilities of L3 to L7 with compensations of L2 😂
I also work in a startup and forget feature level. I built the entire app from DDL to backend to web app and mobile app. Authentication, order management, multi user system, notifications, and now on e-commerce integrations. If anyone has an offer - Ahem
Very detailed and informative. Companies do have these levels, specially the big ones. I think people shouldnt pay too much attention to them though. Just focus on learning new stuff all the time and job search every couple of years. Don't wait 3 years grinding for a company waiting for them to move you up a "level". Just go and apply to new places instead. Best way to get a pay increase. Level up your interview skills both whiteboard and verbal. Title don't mean much to me, tbh. I'm more about what they're paying me and the company culture. People like to play it safe but you get best rewarded for taking a risk here and there. Like they rather work at Amazon because "it looks good", instead of working the startup where you'll get to make more important decisions sooner. And some of these startups might even pay more because they have fresh investor money and in a bigger hurry to get talent. That's just what I've observed.
This is a great resource, I was an L4 level at Tesla, but we didn't really use this tiered system, we were pretty much just referred to as senior. But before moving further I transitioned into a developer relations role. The one thing I have noticed is that some of my skills have atrophied but I still code, but I don't ship a lot of code. It was a logical step in my career, and I often wonder where I would be now if I would have stayed in an engineering role. But, I still make good money and work in a very technical field.
Very informative, thanks for posting! Your content is really great and has helped shape me as a new CZcamsr and also data scientist/software engineer. Thanks!
This was really what I just needed. Thanks Namanh ! I had this apprehension that every engineer had to eventually move from.an individual contribution role such as developer towards management roles as they progress.
Randomly popped into my feed. Great video but I don't necessarily agree with all the points you make here. When you hit Sr. Engineer level, you have two paths that that help define what you want to do: management or technical. I.e, more people management (think manager/team lead) or technical decision making (architect, principal). I am not saying they're always black and white as you will mix at times but the responsibilities are very different. I have 6 years of experience (multiple jobs in parallel) and have done both. It does take different personalities to perform at a high level in those roles. Personally I enjoy the Architect/Principal path.
As I'm listening to this, I'm slowly realizing how unclear my current path is, and how there's an expectation for me to grow, but no clear direction. The company is just like, "grow"... And, it's interesting that they want you to reach senior level status in 2-3 years. Anyone else experiencing this?
hopefully this helped you through some examples, i'd say companies usually expect you to grow from newgrad to senior in about 5 years (fastest i've seen is 3 years but that's not the norm)
I’m a L5, Senior Dev. I have been wondering where I’d go next. I think maybe management, as that would scale better career wise. However, dealing with ppl sucks lol
i might be weird but i feel like once i reach L4 (just started as L3) i would be completely satisfied and would rather focus on things outside of my job instead of trying to further my career. I hope my company won't mind :/
I am a fresher working in a startup for about 10 months now, and forget feature level. I built the entire application from DDL to backend to web app and mobile app. Authentication, order management, multi user system, notifications, and now on e-commerce integrations. If anyone has an offer - Ahem
Amazing video as always! I heard about layoffs at Bolt, I hope you were not affected, it seems like an amazing place to work at. All the best in your career journey!
This video was great! If you could make a video on what is a basic/acceptable level of knowledge for people transferring over from another profession, that would be awesome. I think the learn to code thing but when are you ready to start applying 🤔.
This video kind of scared me. There are god level experts with humongous amounts of knowledge that I don't even know where I will find? I am currently L0.
That was a really great video! Please could you list your sources for the information. I would also be interested to hear your take on how Startup founders factor into the leveling system. For example if someone Started their own tech company and had some success but then returned to employment, would that shortcut them several levels, would they be seen as at least L5 or is it not that big a deal? I think I am L4 at the moment as well although I am in the UK so it doesn't translate perfectly.
a lot of this was from personal experience and after talking with lots of people in higher levels than me - as a founder if your company gets acquired, you’re usually fast tracked to higher levels as part of the acquisition negotiations, but otherwise usually it’ll be based on interview performance and years of experience
Can you explain the difference for Computer Science and Software engineering. I specifically want to know which one is better for software development. Just a comment will help, thanks.
Shit, if being a good human being as a poc in this industry means I have to conform in order to fit in I’ll pass on the company or job completely bc that in itself is exhausting
Lol I see intern writing complete project while senior just give instructions. level are just BS to give less money Switch jobs & provide the best value you can.
if you got to L5 would you keep grinding or just chill?
HELL NAH
Keep grinding
Can you make an video on how to get an internship for high school students?
L6+ not worth it if you want to have a RL and happy family in my opinion
I will keep grinding 💪 💯
Being at the top isn't as great as it sounds. When you no longer code and are dealing with top-level, high risk issues all the time, you start to recognize that you have very little control and things become more and more unpredictable, which leads to much higher stress levels. So instead of "you can do whatever you want," actually it's "you can't do anything." The big issue here is that you no longer have access to mentors, because there's no one above you anymore. So a lot of people at the top choose to leave and go back to basics and build their own companies from scratch, so they have more control and are able to continue growing personally, or they move horizontally and start to integrate their experience into adjacent fields.
thanks for sharing this perspective, very insightful especially since i’m still relatively junior in my career
I would add that getting honest feedback from people also becomes more difficult based on the power dynamic that eventually creeps into the way people perceive you. It's hard to grow into a robust leader if your blind spots aren't being exposed. Culture and the people you choose to work with matters so much in this regard. My rule of thumb is, if you're the smartest person in the room, you should probably leave.
YOO this was so detailed - love how you broke it down so even people outside of tech can understand it!
❤️
Agreed
I just landed my first job at a tech company and the welcome letter said I was L2. I had no idea what that meant, but your video made it really clear. I've taught myself a lot about software/web development, computers and technology in general since befor high-school, but somehow I never came across anything about a software engineering ladder. Thanks for this.
so glad to hear that -- good luck with the new role!
How’s the job going? What kind of knowledge background did you come with? College or self taught? Thanks.
I'm so glad this showed up in my recommended videos, it's so thorough and informative! Just what I needed. Thank you!
😊
man thank you, graduating this december and feel so unprepared, but hearing more about industry is helping
Don’t worry too much about it my friend, remember, everybody had to start somewhere as well.
I feel like anything past L5 has diminishing returns. At that point, you'll level up faster if you go down the management track. Most people don't get past L6, and managers get paid a lot more for a lot less work.
i’ve seen this happen firsthand in industry, but i’ve also seen managers manage ICs who are making more than them, so it can depend
Firstly, it’s not guaranteed that managers make more than ICs. In fact, level for level, managers make about the same as ICs in most FAANG companies. Secondly, managers don’t do “less” work. They just do different work. Sitting in meetings for 10 hours a day every day of the week can also be taxing.
"Years of experience" can be more rigid or flexible depending on the company and the role you are interviewing for. Apple and Microsoft tend to be more rigid. Meta and and Google are more flexible. Amazon is kind of in the middle: they can be flexible for the right person.
I had 4 years when invited to interview for a manager of data science at the L6 level at Amazon, and just under 5 years when invited to interview for an MLE tech lead (E6) at Meta.
For me, the biggest barrier to big tech is the algorithms and data structures interview step. The onsite I've been excited to talk about my experiences, but haven't passed the algorithms interview step yet. I studied physics, economics, and statistics in school, but I've never taken a formal computer science class before. So I get a lot of anxiety and forget half of what I studied. The onsite would cover things I've actually done rather than studied, so for me that's a lot less stressful.
What kind of things do they test in the algorithms interview?
Damn, even an L6 interviewee still has to worry about the algorithm questions
@@RetinalR6 if you are an external hire, up to L8, you have an algo test
@@christersmith5470 I'm a sophomore and just started my first actual internship so I had no idea. Thanks for the info!
Another great video. Like the correspondence between levels and the impact surfaces. Super clarifying. A very good template to look at from impact perspective instead of the compensation perspective.
exactly, focus on impact and the rest will come naturally
Hey Namanh, I have been watching your videos since you began youtube.Love the content you are provide. much different then other engineer youtubers. Great work !!
thanks for being a day #1 supporter!
Working as a software engineer in a 3rd world country, I knew from my friends that I'm working alot more with much less structure compared to them in big companies
I just didn't know my company was giving me the responsibilities of L3 to L7 with compensations of L2 😂
same
Same😂
x2
I also work in a startup and forget feature level. I built the entire app from DDL to backend to web app and mobile app. Authentication, order management, multi user system, notifications, and now on e-commerce integrations.
If anyone has an offer - Ahem
My first role, I came in as an L4 day one... Man trial through fire
Very detailed and informative. Companies do have these levels, specially the big ones. I think people shouldnt pay too much attention to them though. Just focus on learning new stuff all the time and job search every couple of years. Don't wait 3 years grinding for a company waiting for them to move you up a "level". Just go and apply to new places instead. Best way to get a pay increase. Level up your interview skills both whiteboard and verbal. Title don't mean much to me, tbh. I'm more about what they're paying me and the company culture. People like to play it safe but you get best rewarded for taking a risk here and there. Like they rather work at Amazon because "it looks good", instead of working the startup where you'll get to make more important decisions sooner. And some of these startups might even pay more because they have fresh investor money and in a bigger hurry to get talent. That's just what I've observed.
thanks for sharing!
Super informative (and also motivating!) video! Thanks for being so concise, subbed and looking forward to seeing ur channel blow up even more :)
appreciate it!
im a final year now ,im sure i will be coming back to watch this video a lot
truly informative content
see you soon!
I really needed this breakdown of the levels. We don't have a detailed layout of responsibilities at my job.
yeah i wish there was more transparency
I will defiantly become L9 one day!!
indeed
This the best career path advice I have ever received 🙌🏿
😊
Your videos are so detailed. I love how you don’t waste time & you get straight to the point lol. You just gained another subscriber! 🔥💯
ah glad you feel that way, that’s my goal, no BS straight the point short and sweet
needed this like 6 years ago. great video- thanks, Namanh!
glad you saw it now!
As a tier 2 IT tech aspiring to move into software engineering I find this pretty dang interesting
glad it was helpful
This is a great resource, I was an L4 level at Tesla, but we didn't really use this tiered system, we were pretty much just referred to as senior. But before moving further I transitioned into a developer relations role. The one thing I have noticed is that some of my skills have atrophied but I still code, but I don't ship a lot of code. It was a logical step in my career, and I often wonder where I would be now if I would have stayed in an engineering role. But, I still make good money and work in a very technical field.
Just curious what you studied in university if that's ok? And where? Thanks!
You did great job in very short time period. I believe your Channel is going to be the best tech yt Channel very soon! Keep on going!
this comment made my day, thanks for being here!
What a lovely video, I am a new sub to your channel. I am currently an SDE II trying to work my way up to III. It certainly is a grind.
you got it!
Super helpful info, clear communication and explanation. Cheers.
Very informative, thanks for posting! Your content is really great and has helped shape me as a new CZcamsr and also data scientist/software engineer. Thanks!
😊
I literally was fixated from start to finish of this video and it was really worth it....
Very Detailed 💯
appreciate the support!
This was really what I just needed. Thanks Namanh ! I had this apprehension that every engineer had to eventually move from.an individual contribution role such as developer towards management roles as they progress.
thanks for watching! and not at all, you can stay an IC for as long as you want 😊
Randomly popped into my feed. Great video but I don't necessarily agree with all the points you make here. When you hit Sr. Engineer level, you have two paths that that help define what you want to do: management or technical. I.e, more people management (think manager/team lead) or technical decision making (architect, principal). I am not saying they're always black and white as you will mix at times but the responsibilities are very different.
I have 6 years of experience (multiple jobs in parallel) and have done both. It does take different personalities to perform at a high level in those roles. Personally I enjoy the Architect/Principal path.
thanks for sharing your perspective! i def missed some things since i myself am not that senior yet
youre so good at explaining and inspiring. thank you for this!
😊
As I'm listening to this, I'm slowly realizing how unclear my current path is, and how there's an expectation for me to grow, but no clear direction. The company is just like, "grow"... And, it's interesting that they want you to reach senior level status in 2-3 years. Anyone else experiencing this?
hopefully this helped you through some examples, i'd say companies usually expect you to grow from newgrad to senior in about 5 years (fastest i've seen is 3 years but that's not the norm)
Love you Namanh Bro ❤️..Keep Making More Gems 💎 like these ..
😊
IMPROVE YOUR SELF 😊 its' difficult but your career can be great
it can indeed
Wow clear explanation on the software engineer levels …thanks for sharing
😊
This was so thorough and clear! Thanks for all the great information!
you're very welcome!
Great video Namanh! Feels very similar to UX laddering as well.
thanks for watching, good to know!
Hey Namanh, thanks for the great break down of all the various role levels in tech :)
😊
I'm a software engineer and this is the first time I'm hearing about any of this.
what’d you think?
@@namanhkapur seems reasonable
Very well explained, thank you.
I’m a L5, Senior Dev.
I have been wondering where I’d go next.
I think maybe management, as that would scale better career wise.
However, dealing with ppl sucks lol
Thank you for clarifying this
This was awesome. Thankyou for the information!
of course!
Your really good at teaching and making topics interesting to learn and understand
😊
This was so detailed. Thanks, Namanh
i gotchu
Sharpening in L4, Path to L5
That awesome and we have a lot to go there. God help us
you got this!
i might be weird but i feel like once i reach L4 (just started as L3) i would be completely satisfied and would rather focus on things outside of my job instead of trying to further my career. I hope my company won't mind :/
totally makes sense, i mean i’m an L4 and i love my CZcams channel so checks out
I LOVED this video! Great job 🙂
😊
I am a fresher working in a startup for about 10 months now, and forget feature level. I built the entire application from DDL to backend to web app and mobile app. Authentication, order management, multi user system, notifications, and now on e-commerce integrations.
If anyone has an offer - Ahem
Amazing info namanh, keep making informative videos like this.
plan on it!
Awesome video! My dream is to be a software engineer.
you got it
Stuck in L2 from past 6 years.
ain’t no way
Awesome video! Great quality and info
😊
Good Job and presentation!
Thanks a lot bro! ❤
Amazing video as always! I heard about layoffs at Bolt, I hope you were not affected, it seems like an amazing place to work at. All the best in your career journey!
Amazing? Didn't they scam all their workers, pushing them to get loans and invest in the company to only fire them afterwards?
@@gillesvanlommel5932 ?? I just said his video was amazing. What does the video have anything to do with BOLT?
@@SuperLOLABC "amazing video ..... blabla Bolt, IT SEEMS LIKE AN AMAZING PLACE TO WORK AT."
The video is ofcorse great, totally agree with that.
This video was great! If you could make a video on what is a basic/acceptable level of knowledge for people transferring over from another profession, that would be awesome. I think the learn to code thing but when are you ready to start applying 🤔.
thanks for the suggestion! added to my list of future videos
Very well explained. Awesome content.
appreciate the support!
Yep. Been subbed and this video proves I made a very wise decision.
much love
Amazing and detailed explanation broken down 🙌
thanks for being a day #1 supporter!
@@namanhkapur it's been my pleasure. Your videos have helped me learn a lot of knowledge!
Awesome video!
Thanks a lot Namanh!
😊
Thanks, this was more than great.
😊
This is an awesome video! This is really helpful 🔥
so glad it was helpful
Awesome video man🔥
😊
This video kind of scared me. There are god level experts with humongous amounts of knowledge that I don't even know where I will find? I am currently L0.
I'm firmly of the believe that levels are to control wages.
Thanks for the advice
always
That was a really great video! Please could you list your sources for the information. I would also be interested to hear your take on how Startup founders factor into the leveling system. For example if someone Started their own tech company and had some success but then returned to employment, would that shortcut them several levels, would they be seen as at least L5 or is it not that big a deal? I think I am L4 at the moment as well although I am in the UK so it doesn't translate perfectly.
a lot of this was from personal experience and after talking with lots of people in higher levels than me - as a founder if your company gets acquired, you’re usually fast tracked to higher levels as part of the acquisition negotiations, but otherwise usually it’ll be based on interview performance and years of experience
I have 10 years coding experience , and I feel like I could barely do what a L2 does.
you def can
Mmm...Clear.🙏🏽
Namanh, will your income increase if you decided to stay at L5 as good as if you leveled up?
you’ll keep getting raises, but usually the biggest jumps in compensation happen when you go up in level
@@namanhkapur good thing I am wanting to be a developer for the love of it and not the money, I have no interested in management
estas a falar de 7 a 10 anos do principio ate ao fim !!!!
Caminho mais curto?
Cool explanation!
😊
Great video!
appreciate it!
Thank you for the info bro
always!
Can you explain the difference for Computer Science and Software engineering. I specifically want to know which one is better for software development. Just a comment will help, thanks.
software engineering and software development are the same -- they are both an application of computer science
Take a look at the classes for each major and that will give you a good idea of the differences at whatever school you are considering.
👀🙏love ur content sir....you influenced me to learn to code
😊
very motivating!
😊
It is very long journey... ✨💫
long and fulfilling
What habit to cultivate to become a better engineer or good at software developer job like frontend. What path to follow or mind set to cultivate?
great questions and thanks for the potential video idea, let me think and create a video
@@namanhkapur sure would love to watch the video.
Be organized
Shit, if being a good human being as a poc in this industry means I have to conform in order to fit in I’ll pass on the company or job completely bc that in itself is exhausting
Love this
😊
Whats up with Bolt firing 30% of its workforce? Did you make the cut?
Thanks man
of course!
this man woke up and said hold up lemme put myself in a box
There's a rule not to write your own encryption module or algorithm unless you want it to have holes and being breached ;)
this is true
Awesome content.
appreciate the support!
Can you level up in a software company if you don't have a degree and taught yourself programming instead?
Great video.
thanks for watching!
Hey Namanh, how’s Bolt handling the Layoff ? Do you see yourself leaving ?
i think the layoff was inevitable to extend our runway, I still believe in our potential so I'm here for now -- hopefully no more layoffs 🤞
never knew russ was a SWE this is wild
coding is my first career, rap is second
Elite video
appreciate it!
Hey Namah,
Thanks for the information but do you think after this layoff there will be more layoffs news
Very good content
😊
wow this was helpful
😊
Usually one breaks between L4 and L5!
true
Lol I see intern writing complete project while senior just give instructions. level are just BS to give less money Switch jobs & provide the best value you can.
Are L1s janitors?
janitors are L7
@@namanhkapur 😂
Bro I'm learning full stack web development from Masai School. Is it possible to go foreign to do job through with that skill?