After all the hype on The Timeless Children storyline, this type of character should have been her own season villain; not just having 3-4 scenes and then being Thanosed in the most anticlimatic way possible.
@@gay4sswhovian Rassilon has been referred to for decades (and seen in The Five Doctors) Tecteun came out of nowhere and was shown in The Timeless Child final and a few scenes in Flux and was seemingly killed. Hope there’s a way they could twist or just retcon it completely as it’s such a uninteresting, terrible and unnecessary plot line.
Two of the most infuriating moments of this era (to me) are when the Master just reveals that he destroyed what was left on Gallifrey (seriously?!) and the second is this moment where after introducing this supposedly monumental character to the Doctor, they just kill her off like nothing.
She’s such a great actress, I was living for this scene but then they killed her. What a shame she could’ve been a great villain on par with the master.
Wouldn't be interesting if the Master was once a member of the division when the 1st Master was trying to conquer the universe in the name of order and the two recently had a reunion and decided to manipulate the Doctor?
If she's like the Master, then she probably has fail safes to save her in case of death. Death always had a loose grip on the Master, like in the 1996 movie.
@@lunasky272 well...they wont lmao. russel t davies is taking over again and most likely this shitty timeless child idea will be scrapped for good. Chibnall is gone, we can have a party
@@FirlowXD definitely, Jodie got robbed she should of had 3 to 4 more episodes here. It was supposed to be like a 10 episode epic season but covid constraints sadly. I still really enjoyed it but would've loved more
@@charlespettit7149 I expect she will... in about twenty years time! Idk but I'm guessing she's where Peter Davison and Colin Baker where, in terms of enthusiasm for the brand, when they left the show. Or will be, by the time her era is history. Kind of where Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi are right now, also. "Moving on... " But yes, the day will come when everything we think we know about the Thirteenth Doctor is re-explored, expanded upon, reimagined, in Big Finish audios. Thinking now of all the "between episodes" time frames Big Finish will set their new adventures in. No doubt, too, more from the four years her companions spent stranded in the early 20th Century with Prof. Jericho. More Thirteen vs Sacha Dhawan's Master, more run ins with the Division. Modern Multi Doctor episodes and Companion call backs. As much good stuff as BF can cram into what appears to be a very short era, at least on TV. But of course, Time Traveller... She'll be welcomed back as warmly as Chris Eccleston, one day :) (Edit: that's if Big Finish retain the licence until then, of course! Caught myself taking it for granted, there. We're so lucky, right now. Long may it continue:)
Tecteun would've been a much better antagonist if they had built her up across Jodie's tenure. Have a conspiracy around the Doctor's past and hints build up. I don't like the Timeless Child retcon but I think it could've worked so long as they executed well, and they didn't. But it's not like Chibs is the only writer guilty of this; remember the Hybrid?
i think the arc wasnt executed well , It gives continuity so well but execution was done incorrectly. Everything was good only writing is terrible. i hope rtd reconsiders this and will open it more properly.
These are my thoughts exactly. Rewatching these, the narrative is VERY doctor who continuityey. It's just the execution and build up was off. They did hint but not enough and not for a long enough period. It does make me wonder if it was linked to budget or editing. The MCU have multiple examples of this so who knows what we'll find out after the fact. I think RTD had the benefit of having done this before and getting MASSIVE budgeting. The comparison isn't fair because RTD was MADE for who but he still had farting aliens in his run and a fair amount of weird stories, but he also had so many more episodes to work with so I wonder. I'm not fully sure
I mean what does she expect when you wipe your own adopted daughter's memories completely of everything before what they believe to have been their first ever incarnation.
Someone like Tecteun doesn't deserve to be whooshed away into nothingness. She deserves to be utterly humiliated, and then locked away where she can't hurt anyone ever again. She should have to watch hope win and the Doctor succeed, again and again and again. In other words, I'd toss Tecteun in the brig of the Ship with Skagra, and ideally they can bore each other to tears for all eternity. That's what Tecteun deserves. ~Kathleen~
What Flux has led to is opening the doors to a lot of fan theories and speculation. One of the theories I feel has traction was the Division being responsible for the Time War, an unwinnable conflict between two titan races that would lead to mutually assured destruction of the universe. Given they had an interest in ending creation, the Time War seems like an ideal end game scenario.
The fact that they killed off Tecteun after a fee scenes and killed off Ashad Cyberman a few episodes before shrugging that whole arc off in the New Year Jack Harkness Return /Dalek episode after introducing him means that Chibnall and his fellow writers have the audacity to use concepts that rewrite the whole of Doctor Who Canon just so that they can throw them away almost as soon as they introduce them ... as if to say they were never really that important in the first place... And THAT is the biggest problem with Chibnall's new Who Not the acting or the directing The fact that they retconned the Doctor's entire life story, origin story, biological heritage and the history of the Time Lords and regeneration... only for the Doctor to go and say "it doesn't matter because I am still the same as before" Why come up with these controversial ideas if even YOU (the writers) won't stick to them? Even the Thasmin thing Why tease the relationship with no pay off? As if to say you want the Thasmin shippers on your side without doing what they want?? Regardless of whether you agree with the Thasmin thing or not, the execution in the Sea Devils episode was poor!
I think Tecteun isn't dead. I hope not. She's the only other time lord with unlimited lives, the Time Force might have done something to her but hopefully she will be back
That was a super villian 'death', if I've ever seen one, especially in how it was shot, Flux's compact storytelling, Doctor Who is a broad appealing adventure show and not the stuff of mythologies, etc.
It feels like they had all these great ideas but they just refuse to flesh them out. Like even the Flux itself was great, but like they don’t even explain anything else. Like, is most of the universe dead? Was there a reset? Will things just randomly change back to the way things were? It’s just such an annoyance to watch at times
It's weird that they try to play this as A Moment when Tecteun was only created one season ago, and even then only mentioned in an exposition dump and has no actually meaningful connection to any character we care about. Sure, she's The Doctor's mother, but who cares when even The Doctor doesn't remember?
Correct me if there was already an explanation to that but I'm almost sure that Tecteun was around for a little bit, she just didn't have an specific name or story (or character for that matter) but I feel that she is the same woman that appeared in 10th Doctor's final episodes as that mysterious woman who looked at the doctor in a very "mothery" way for a few moments
@@obiwankenobi687 I know she was obviously not supposed to be Tecteun per se but I'm saying that: if her character was really never properly defined it might just be Tecteun now, that leaves room for it
I found it frustrating that Chibnall just offed her like nothing at the end of this episode. Personally kinda wished she delved into the other universe whilst the Doctor returned to ours so maybe they could potentially pick up on Tecteun and that universe later. Find out some information on the Doctor, their race, their home. I'm glad Russell has chosen to continue on with the Flux stuff and timeless child, especially after seeing how haunted and angry the Doctor really is from learning it all (in Wild Blue Yonder, maybe he can retcon the "death" of Tecteun and she did infact make it to the other universe.
I like Flux especially War of the Sontarans and Village of the Angels, but Survivors of the Flux was the point where I think it started to fall slightly. Had Flux gotten its 8 or 11 as originally planned before Covid hit, I pictured Chris Chibnall had an episode where it was just The Doctor and Tecteun in a Heaven Sent style story and setting where it was just these two talking and having emotional moments and breakdowns with each other regarding The Doctor’s past, her origins, memories, Division and what it actually does and stuff like that could’ve given Chibnall’s Timeless Child story arc a satisfying conclusion before Jodie’s exit the following year. I know many of you want to forget the timeless child arc but it’s an interesting idea and makes me respect Chibnall for not being afraid to take any big gambles and changes with the canon which could’ve been brilliant to see unfold but with so many plot threads still left like the fob watch containing The Doctor’s memories, the Fugitive Doctor, the destruction of Gallifrey, Ashad’s revival and more, it’s unlikely that Russel T Davies will pick up on any of those plot threads leaving The Timeless Child arc wasted potential. Maybe somewhere in a parallel universe, Chibnall really did get the ending of this era that he wanted to tell. So unless Big Finish and other expanded media ties up any of those loose ends especially with the Fugitive Doctor BF stories coming, I think it’s unfortunate to say we won’t be seeing or knowing how Chibnall’s big plans for the series would’ve ended anytime sooner even if he changes his mind on returning under Russel’s head.
For me, his/her mother always will be The Woman who appeared in The End of Time, I tkink that after Doctor was turn into baby by Division, he was adopted by this Woman and her husband who had together Irving Braxiatel and that sisters who Thirteenth Doctor mentioned.
She was their mom too according to Russell T Davies... So yeah between this and the whole shit about the Doctor's mom being human idk what this series have with their mother but it's never really exploited
@@gay4sswhovian actually I have a crazy idea to the origins of Galifrey basically humans fleeing the last cyber war went through the breach into the past to ancient Galifrey and became the first people of Galifrey millions of years later evolved to adapt to their new enviroment and became the shobogans who later on became the timelords.
@@dragulouse2219 "I feel like" That's the problem with people and the world these days. They spend too much time fallowing their feelings rather than thinking and leading with morality and their brains.
It’s weird how when swarm touches tecteun, her and the Doctor just stand there and stare, when it’s shows how easy it is to escape it’s, when the Doctor just moves away in the next episode!!!
One of the most interesting characters introduced... Shame they killed her off so early. She could have answered so many questions before the William Hartnell Incarnations. There are 3 specials left, it would be so if they would explain Tecteun and her relation with her. I guess if they don't tie up the lose ends of Flux in these 3 specials, this could be the driving force of the next incarnation of the Doctor. That might be interesting to watch
@@GAMER36014 what is their to fix the timelords were pretty awful in the original series as well. All the timeless child stuff just means we don’t have to have a event where the doctor gets a new regeneration cycle every 12 doctors. It also opens up the possibility of more incarnations of the doctor to encounter.
@@Phantom19913 I mean the timeless child stuff does make sense if it was that master that was the timeless child, it would not break cannon, well not as much anyway. But sadly the Doctor is the timeless child witch come across as a complete misunderstanding of the character. The Doctor is special because of his/her actions not because of "destiny" or something. That being said that can be fixed with the doctor accepting who they are now and not who they've been. Other areas that need fixing is what is the importance of the second universe other than the Doctor came from there. How did the Doctor slip into a wormhole and what species is he/her in that second universe. Are these universes in the same bigger space or are these universes the same as parallel universes separated in a different reality.
@@Phantom19913 there's definitely more things that need to be established that I can't think off from the top of my head as I haven't rewatched any of this plotline. Plus I could be wrong about a few things. These are my initial thoughts on the timeless child saga.
I wonder how much of this Irving Braxiatel knows about, The Doctor's Brother sould know a lot considering the number of roles he's had in his long life, before and after he left Gallifrey. Irving could have left an AI in the Braxiatel Collection with information only for The Doctor, to be unlocked with the right questions about "the timeless child".
I really hope she comes back. Now way they killed off Tecteun, the engineer of Time Lords, so easily. She would be a brilliant villain. Personally I think The Master nuking Galifrey was a smoke screen and the time lords are now ruling Universe 2, maybe with Rasilon back in charge with Tecteun and division pulling the strings behind them. Now what gets them back into the picture is the next big question
Pete's world doesn't have to be Universe 2 necessarily. It just happens to be close, but Tecteun mentions another "next universe". She also mentions multiple universes, so Pete's world might be one of them, but not necessarily the 2nd one, the next, that Tecteun wants to go to. It could pretty well be Universe 3, or 4, ...
I think it's hilarious how any of these commenters really think Tecteun is actually dead...or if she is actually dead, that we won't ever see her again. Nobody really dies on Who.
Tectun: I was the one who raised you! Me: noooo you didn't! you basically used your own child as a guinea pig, costing the doctor a half dozen regenerations in order to find the way to unlock the power of regenerations yourself. I'd say that's why you're not weary, you're scared because The Doctor can change, The Doctor CAN be heartless and cold when he/she wants to be!
Tecteun's death was a super villian 'death', if I've ever seen one, especially in how it was shot, Flux's compact storytelling, Doctor Who is a broad appealing adventure show and not the stuff of mythologies, etc.
These comments have to be sensored. Every website going shows people were disappointed with the flux and Chibnall, yet everyone here seems to love it. If youtube still showed dislikes I think a more true picture would imerge. Nearly 2000 views yet less than 50 comments, this seems suspicious, some have had to been deleted.
Nah, it's just a different kind of audience watching. People who didn't like Flux wouldn't be watching clips of it on CZcams. I didn't like this series either and I skipped all the clips uploaded here except this one.
@@DoctorWhoHugh Chibnall has tied up lose ends before? When? Moffat and RTD are actively better writers and even then Moffat wasn't as good as RTD from a rewatch (although I will always love the 12th doctor), I will still watch the specials but after the last episode of Flux which was a major disappointment... I'm just not excited for specials that are lack luster
@@novawolf_gaming that’s, fair, it’s your opinion and you are 100% entitled to it. I’m watching Flux all the way through tonight, and have seen the finale a few times, it’s quite good once you rewatch it, you understand it better As for when he’s done it before, The Silurians Captain Jack Fugitive Doctor (confirmed for another 4th and final return) The Ravagers (temporal beings seton a war against all of space, fail and get “ascended” by their master) Bel and Vinder Karvanista and who he is to the Doctor Tim Shaw The Timeless Child’s relation to the Time Lords and how it affected their origins UNIT’s removal and return The sniper bots on Desolation at the same place as the Stenza The Judoon chasing the Doctor The Flux itself, it’s motivation, who controlled it, what it had to do with the Doctor (shown in this video) And of course the first time with Tecteun That’s all the payoff’s I can remember
@@DoctorWhoHugh I don't think you understand None of those tied up lose ends, most of those are the lose ends Chibnall hasn't tied anything up yet, all he's done is place more string next to the ends I enjoyed Flux from episode 1-4... 5 was fine but not much actually happened and 6... I mean... It was Chibnall's best finale but... It wasn't great, it answered nothing and made the entire series pointless
i wont lie im really confused. Like why exactly did the Division want to destroy the universe?. Was it all to kill the doctor? or is there something im not getting?
The biggest reason was the Doctor's actions. Like Tecteun said, the Doctor brings hope in people, creating uprisings, people rise up to whatever is usurping them, or stuff. The Division wants to control, but hope prevents that. So the Division wanted to abandon this universe and focus on the next one to control it, without the Doctor's influence, or eventually with the Doctor on their team again.
An interesting direction to take the Timeless Child, an idea I had would be to reveal that the Doctor originally came from the Land of Fiction first seen in the Mind Robber. What if the Doctor was a fictional character created by a TV show that became a sentient being in the world of fiction? Just an idea I had
One question: Multiversal technology has already existed in Doctor Who, from the Inferno device to Pete's World, so why does Tecteun need to destroy the universe to access the outside multiverse? Unless, it's a different kind of multiverse, one seperate from the Doctor Who multiverse?
@@slateoffate9812 In R&M there is a separate multiverse where the variable is that in those universe the protagonist is not the smartest man in their respective universe
this technically doesn't make sense due to The Doctor's Wife. the doctor went outside of the universe, and we only saw 1 universe. it doesn't make sense.
11th said: "We're leaving the known universe", but that doesn't necessarily mean the outside, the same place the Division is at (also known as the Void). In fact later in that episode the House's universe is described as a bubble universe, which is quite a widespread concept in Doctor Who. Like the bubbles of soap, one next to another. Leaving one universe, but at the same time entering the other, that small bubble with the House entity. So it's not really the Void between universes, there's like nothing in the Void, while House was settled on a rock, an asteroid, or something, in fact House was that asteroid. How come there's a sentient asteroid in the Void? Well there isn't.
Nope, that woman was supposed to be the Doctor's biological mother. RTD basically confirmed it outside of the show, she was intended that way, but it was never brought to fruition. They left it ambiguous for the fans to decide. But the Timeless Child story arc definitely swept it away, she can't be the Doctor's biological mother, because Tecteun found the child at the gate, the Doctor isn't even Gallifreyan. So yea, they are both different women, not the same, one was supposed to be the biological mother, but never mentioned in the show and later retconned into just a random woman, who for some reason helped. Maybe she was supposed to be one of the Doctor's aunties, or grannies, maybe she was the granny number 7? Or number 5? XD The other was a caring person once, who loved the child, that she found, but with time became the head of Division and grew bitter towards her adoptive daughter, I guess.
@@thomas_vd RTD said that way before Chibnall came with the Timeless child. Yes, you can retroactively explain it, that she wasn't in fact biological, just adoptive, but the original idea coming from RTD himself back in the days when the Doctor was still a Gallifreyan Timelord and not a being from a different universe (possibly) was that this woman was his real mother, the woman, who gave the Doctor life. Retcons and retroactive explanations are fine with me, really no issues here, I'm just explaining the original idea, as it was meant back then. What was doesn't have to be. Now the Doctor is revealed to be the origin of the Timelords, the template for their whole race, so that woman can't be, what RTD meant her to be originally. And that's really fine. Just don't act, like things don't change, the show changes constantly. Stuff originally thought to mean something, doesn't have to mean the same after years and years of changes and revealed thruths.
More like a reunion for Tecteun, with the Doctor. For the Doctor it's less of a reunion and more of a fabled meeting for the first time, again. You know, because Doctor Who has to Doctor Who.
I thought Tecteun was dead before I watched this scene. She should have been The Rani. This was the perfect opportunity to bring the Rani back as it’s all about experiments
@@DrWhoFanJ Instead of being unnecessarily rude and bashing the poor guy how about you instead *explain* how it's not a retcon so that he isn't wrong for any future purposes.
@@velahtielredfang9417 I would, but there would be no point. I know these kinds of people well enough to know they just ignore any attempts at explaining the truth.
Gosh, I was screaming in this scene. It's really good... Can't wait to rewatch Flux with a friend... But gosh, I wanna punch Tecteun so much... XD I think I would've loved seeing more of her though, we'll see... Maybe she's still alive somewhere, considering the Master apparently comes back from being hit by the Death Particle on Gallifrey...
The Master wasn't hit by the Death Particle. It's really no mystery on how he survived. Really, Ko-Shamus wasn't fast enough in pressing the trigger and we can clearly hear the Master off screen shouting "all of you, with me!", presumably taking a nearby TARDIS to escape with most of his CyberMasters. If the Doctor could reach a TARDIS before the Death Particle blowing up, then why not the Master and some of his creations?
I honestly thought when we first saw Tecteun in Flux that she was Margaret Blaine. They both looked sort of alike and the manner of speaking was similar
I really hate how little mystery there is to the Doctor's backstory. I don't even hate the Timeless Child _AS A CONCEPT,_ genuinely, I just hate that it's the Doctor. If it were literally revealed later "the Master lied/there _IS_ a Timeless Child but it isn't you," I'd be perfectly satisfied with that. Hell, that would be interesting because then there'd be some mystery around "well wait, who IS the Timeless Child?"
Chibnall's run flubs the buildup so hard. The Division being this great antagonistic force remained absolutely unexplained, effectively being Time Lords but without the interference policy, then wanting to destroy and reset the universe because the Doctor kept giving... hope? Because she discovered the existence of Division? It makes Division sound so childish, and I love the actress, Tecteun's motivation sounds too immature to take seriously.
I have my doubts that she is truely dead. As the leader of a black ops organization as old as time, she likely has failsafes for her failsafes falesafe.
So the Division is just sitting in the void. What about the huge war between the Daleks and Cybermen that is said to be larger than the Time War that happened in the Void after Doomsday. Wouldn't that be a bit of a hazard.
Jodie was so underutilized. She had such little emotion in this scene. She was a little miffed, but that was it. I hate that her Doctor was not a character. She was just an exposition device. Out of every scene she had during her run, THIS should have been the scene where the emotions came out. The sadness, the anger, the fury. WHERE WAS IT? WHY WAS IT WRITTEN SO BAD!?!!?
This is meant to be such a big impact full sequence of events for the doctor and yet there has been nowhere near enough work done to ground this scene or how these characters feel, honestly sad to see Jodie go she deserved better than the hack head writer she got.
It's because Chibnall and RTD both fake it to make it. Neither can write a full or complex story, and they both rely on phrases and titles that they think "Just sound good" without having a clue how to develop them or implement them in a setting. "The Time War" began that way with RTD along with its litany of silly grandiose names like the "Skaro Degradations" and the "nightmare child". And here Chibbers does the same with "Tecteun" and "the Division". They are all just place holders for something clever that they weren't clever enough to actually fill in.
Doctor who lore contradicts itself all the time. Although honestly even in season 2 they said that dimensional travel was easy when there were timelords. And well… the division is run by timelords.
@@Luke-ky5ed Did you miss the part where the entire organisation was founded as a secret splinter group from the gallifreyan government? The doctor didn’t exactly get to see the whole thing, they saw about 2 rooms of division.
@@madanotap6492 Actually Tecteun was seemingly running the whole thing, as she said "I AM DIVISION". It was founded as an organisation and was run by several people, but it seems, that eventually only Tecteun was left in charge, using whatever she got her hands on. Like that Ood, the Angels and other species. We see only like 2 rooms of the Division, but we don't need to see more, as there's apparently not much more to be seen anyway. Tecteun and the Ood were pretty much self sufficient. And it's far more believable, that something like the Flux was orchestrated, created and managed by a single brilliant mind, rather than several other people involved. Mind you all of them would singleminded agree with a universe ending event? They were a secret organisation watching over laws and order of the universe, even above the High Command of Gallifrey, I really doubt, they would be all voting for the Flux. Whatever happened to the rest, I really think only Tecteun remained, the most ambitious and most brilliant of them all.
All this time, and I still have no idea why any of the villains in The Flux were doing what they were doing. Tecteun? The Sontarans? The snake guy? The Weeping Angels? The glitter skeleton people? Not one of them had a clear motive that I can recall.
This is the complete destruction of the series. Doctor who is now an immortal who has lived for billions of years, had thousands of regenerations and is little more than a Time Lord pet. The Time Lords however are no better than Nazi Scientists or US scientists who used to operate on black women without aesthetic. The doctor has no consequences now and as to the throw away character saying "No more regenerations" we already know that is a lie, so the Doctor can just die as often as she/he likes and not care now.
3 Specials left and this Tecteun character will cease to exist along with Division, that Timeless Child rubbish and any other "Doctors" who aren't named 1 through 13, War or Valeyard. Russell T. Davies will fix this Chris Chibnall mess and normal Time Lord history will be resumed.
The Timeless Child and Division are not rubbish; there are already plenty of Doctors without numbers (the Valeyard, the Dream Lord, the War Doctor, the Fugitive Doctor, the Timeless Children); there’s no mess to fix; “normal” Time Lord history has not been interrupted.
This was Chibnall's chance to change the Timeless Child. All we needed was one line. That's all. However, he decided to double down. RTD, please fix this.
(1) The regenerative energy going into the 11th Doctor's mouth was the Timeless Child in a evolved energy form while being sent by the timelords, by Rassilon's orders and though the Division's influence, to make the 11th Doctor it’s host in a symbiosis way as a way to preserve it. That the reason the Doctor was able to regenerate into the 12th and 13th Doctor is because of the Timeless Child and using up all his lives is still a fact. That the Timeless Child is like a life support for the Doctor. (2) The Master of the Roger Delgado era worked for the Division and the reason he did the things he did in that incarnation. The wanting order in the universe by controlling it while Tecteun knew about the drum beats, the beacon, and how it was slowly driving the Master mad. The Master (Sacha Dhawan) and Tecteun have their reunion after she saved Missy and made her regenerate and the Master knew about the true origins of the Timeless Child from Tecteun and their situation where the being turned into pure regenerative energy and needed a host to contain it and it was him who suggested the Doctor because he/she was an outsider. Thus the energy going into the 11th Doctor’s mouth. The Master also came up with the story that the Doctor was the Timeless Child, and even manipulated Captain Jack, because he knew his enemy was quite capable of using the truth as a weapon against his/her enemies and it was best to keep that advantage away from her. Also, like killing two birds with one stone, he was tasked to get rid of Gallifrey so they wouldn’t get in the way of Tecteun’s plans to move to the other universe where the Timeless Child came from. Oh’ and the portal to Gallifrey was Tecteun’s and she used it to communicate with Rassilon like a phone line and e-mail, since Gallifrey was stuck in a moment in time which gave Tecteun the advantage over Rassilon when it came to a deal, since going in and out was impossible at the time and Tecteun had future knowledge on how to escape, and convinced him to send out the Timeless Child through the crack. (3) The fugitive Doctor was really from a possible future, while having memory problems because of the Division. The Division must have captured the Doctor in the future. the things mention in Flux, like Karvanista and Ravagers are perhaps a possible future that only seem like the past because of time traveling which ends up with Gallifrey of the past to going after her, since it seems that the Division believe that they're above the laws of time. (4) When Tecteun and Ravagers spoke to the Doctor, they were probably speaking to the Timeless Child, while the Doctor was seen as nothing but a host, and Tecteun, with manipulating and using the Timeless Child as a lab animal, is no doubt willing to lie, but she was probably telling the truth when it came to the Timeless Child when she/he had a physical body, and she was probably talking about what the fugitive Doctor did after she escaped again and was influenced by the Doctor. That Tecteun’s past is the 13th Doctor’s future. (5) Rassilon and Omega were probably partners with Tecteun and knew about the Timeless Child, and perhaps his immortality trap in the 5 Doctors was a means to lessen the chance of someone discovering the Timeless Child, since rumors of a being of limitless regenerations was perhaps out there in the public, while it was mention that he had a dream of immortality. He once told the 12th Doctor that they didn’t know how many regenerations they gave him and it might be because the host thing is experimental. The fact that Rassilon left Gallifrey before it’s true destruction means that he could perhaps be still around and holds the actual truth of the Timeless Child. Perhaps even mock the “Renegade Timelord” for not seeing the plot holes in the story that was told to him/her, like the fugitive Doctor having a police box Tardis which happened to the 1st Doctor. Omega’s entrapment inside the anti-matter universe might have been a betrayal, I think the betrayer’s name was Vandekirian on behalf of Rassilon and perhaps Tecteun was in on it like a silent partner, while Rassilon and his followers’ madness of becoming beings of pure consciousness after the destruction of the universe (Ultimate Sanction) may have made him a burden to Tecteun. The Project Revenant that resurrected Rassilon may be connected to the Timeless Child. (6) The return of Gallifrey. After the Time Wars and being freed from the time freeze, the Timelords decided to create a fail-safe in case disaster happens, especially the kind that ends them and that fail-safe resets everything to before that threat happened, like going back in time, but the system isn’t perfect and needs someone outside to get it working and Rassilon may hold the secret on how it’s done. (7) On the run from his/her people again. The Timelords decide that the Timeless Child is too dangerous to exist, and since the Doctor is stuck with the entity, she becomes as target as well.
Are you ok becouse the 13th area had the doctor stand in front of daleks destroyed the first doctor being the first doctor and making the tardis being stuck as a police box before the circut broke
After all the hype on The Timeless Children storyline, this type of character should have been her own season villain; not just having 3-4 scenes and then being Thanosed in the most anticlimatic way possible.
Welcome to Chibnall Who
Yup
Rassilon was a villain only for The End of Time in season 4 so no lol
@@gay4sswhovian Yeah cause Rassilon was a made up a character for Series 4 finale...
@@gay4sswhovian Rassilon has been referred to for decades (and seen in The Five Doctors) Tecteun came out of nowhere and was shown in The Timeless Child final and a few scenes in Flux and was seemingly killed. Hope there’s a way they could twist or just retcon it completely as it’s such a uninteresting, terrible and unnecessary plot line.
Two of the most infuriating moments of this era (to me) are when the Master just reveals that he destroyed what was left on Gallifrey (seriously?!) and the second is this moment where after introducing this supposedly monumental character to the Doctor, they just kill her off like nothing.
YES OMG
It was actually an incredibly DARING move to kill her off like that
The whole thing was stupid
@@DistantCousin No it was cheap.
@@notabannedaccount8362it’s quite clever in a way. She thought she was so important. Nope a bomb can land on anyone.
She’s such a great actress, I was living for this scene but then they killed her. What a shame she could’ve been a great villain on par with the master.
Wouldn't be interesting if the Master was once a member of the division when the 1st Master was trying to conquer the universe in the name of order and the two recently had a reunion and decided to manipulate the Doctor?
@@buhe1 yes that was be amazing seriously…they need to feed us in the next season please
If she's like the Master, then she probably has fail safes to save her in case of death. Death always had a loose grip on the Master, like in the 1996 movie.
@@lunasky272 well...they wont lmao. russel t davies is taking over again and most likely this shitty timeless child idea will be scrapped for good. Chibnall is gone, we can have a party
Similar to the woman from The End Of Time who is also allegedly the ‘Doctor’s Mother’
"It's me, your mum. Let's have a couple of episodes to really digest what happened between us and get to the nitty gritty of our conflict" *dies*
If the Timeless Doctors ever get their own episodes or audios or novels, you can bet Tecteun and the Division will feature. We know enough for now
I blame Covid tbh
@@FirlowXD definitely, Jodie got robbed she should of had 3 to 4 more episodes here. It was supposed to be like a 10 episode epic season but covid constraints sadly. I still really enjoyed it but would've loved more
@@hgwells1899 I'm hoping big finish does stuff with the timeless doctors. And I hope Jodie will join big finish for audios too!!
@@charlespettit7149 I expect she will... in about twenty years time! Idk but I'm guessing she's where Peter Davison and Colin Baker where, in terms of enthusiasm for the brand, when they left the show. Or will be, by the time her era is history. Kind of where Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi are right now, also. "Moving on... "
But yes, the day will come when everything we think we know about the Thirteenth Doctor is re-explored, expanded upon, reimagined, in Big Finish audios. Thinking now of all the "between episodes" time frames Big Finish will set their new adventures in. No doubt, too, more from the four years her companions spent stranded in the early 20th Century with Prof. Jericho. More Thirteen vs Sacha Dhawan's Master, more run ins with the Division. Modern Multi Doctor episodes and Companion call backs. As much good stuff as BF can cram into what appears to be a very short era, at least on TV. But of course, Time Traveller...
She'll be welcomed back as warmly as Chris Eccleston, one day :)
(Edit: that's if Big Finish retain the licence until then, of course! Caught myself taking it for granted, there. We're so lucky, right now. Long may it continue:)
Tecteun would've been a much better antagonist if they had built her up across Jodie's tenure. Have a conspiracy around the Doctor's past and hints build up. I don't like the Timeless Child retcon but I think it could've worked so long as they executed well, and they didn't. But it's not like Chibs is the only writer guilty of this; remember the Hybrid?
i think the arc wasnt executed well , It gives continuity so well but execution was done incorrectly. Everything was good only writing is terrible. i hope rtd reconsiders this and will open it more properly.
The Hybrid was a good storyline
These are my thoughts exactly. Rewatching these, the narrative is VERY doctor who continuityey. It's just the execution and build up was off. They did hint but not enough and not for a long enough period.
It does make me wonder if it was linked to budget or editing. The MCU have multiple examples of this so who knows what we'll find out after the fact. I think RTD had the benefit of having done this before and getting MASSIVE budgeting. The comparison isn't fair because RTD was MADE for who but he still had farting aliens in his run and a fair amount of weird stories, but he also had so many more episodes to work with so I wonder.
I'm not fully sure
But he build up towards it
Hybrid is the Master
Notice how Tecteun got emotional for a second there when the Doctor asked who she was
I mean what does she expect when you wipe your own adopted daughter's memories completely of everything before what they believe to have been their first ever incarnation.
"You inspire. Make people rise up, make them ask questions. Give them hope, that can be problematic."
Just what I needed to watch today. I may be 57 years old, but I know when to run. RUN!
Someone like Tecteun doesn't deserve to be whooshed away into nothingness.
She deserves to be utterly humiliated, and then locked away where she can't hurt anyone ever again. She should have to watch hope win and the Doctor succeed, again and again and again.
In other words, I'd toss Tecteun in the brig of the Ship with Skagra, and ideally they can bore each other to tears for all eternity. That's what Tecteun deserves.
~Kathleen~
Somehow? I have this FEELING? We will see her again.
You're far more merciful than I am. I'd let the Family have some company. Nothingness but AWARENESS of and in the nothingness. Forever.
Thanks for the thought, Kathleen
If she’s anything like other doctor who villains, she’ll be back
I don't think that choice was about Tecteun, but about Swarm preemptively stealing the Doctor's closure.
What Flux has led to is opening the doors to a lot of fan theories and speculation. One of the theories I feel has traction was the Division being responsible for the Time War, an unwinnable conflict between two titan races that would lead to mutually assured destruction of the universe. Given they had an interest in ending creation, the Time War seems like an ideal end game scenario.
That’s not bad actually
I figure Tecteun was the woman on the high council the one who was with rasilon during the end of time.
Tecteun: You give them hope. That can be problematic.
12th Doctor: Since when is hope a bad thing?
Ohila: Hope is a terrible thing on the scaffold.
The fact that they killed off Tecteun after a fee scenes and killed off Ashad Cyberman a few episodes before shrugging that whole arc off in the New Year Jack Harkness Return /Dalek episode after introducing him means that Chibnall and his fellow writers have the audacity to use concepts that rewrite the whole of Doctor Who Canon just so that they can throw them away almost as soon as they introduce them
... as if to say they were never really that important in the first place...
And THAT is the biggest problem with Chibnall's new Who
Not the acting or the directing
The fact that they retconned the Doctor's entire life story, origin story, biological heritage and the history of the Time Lords and regeneration... only for the Doctor to go and say "it doesn't matter because I am still the same as before"
Why come up with these controversial ideas if even YOU (the writers) won't stick to them?
Even the Thasmin thing
Why tease the relationship with no pay off?
As if to say you want the Thasmin shippers on your side without doing what they want??
Regardless of whether you agree with the Thasmin thing or not, the execution in the Sea Devils episode was poor!
I think Tecteun isn't dead. I hope not. She's the only other time lord with unlimited lives, the Time Force might have done something to her but hopefully she will be back
@@haddy106 didn't rassilon have unlimited regenerations as well?
That was a super villian 'death', if I've ever seen one, especially in how it was shot, Flux's compact storytelling, Doctor Who is a broad appealing adventure show and not the stuff of mythologies, etc.
It feels like they had all these great ideas but they just refuse to flesh them out. Like even the Flux itself was great, but like they don’t even explain anything else. Like, is most of the universe dead? Was there a reset? Will things just randomly change back to the way things were? It’s just such an annoyance to watch at times
here's hoping 15's run fixes that there were certainly hints of this in episode 2 of the 60th anniversary
"You couldnt leave the universe alone"
The doctor in season 2:"huh we are in a parallel universe, how odd"
I Definitely Wasn't Behind The Killing Of The Almighty Tecteun!
You’re good at this
Scared me there
You should have said “nobody loves tecteun more than me!”
Wok-teun, you mean
@@ftumschk no I meant sonteun, sontaran + tecteun = sonteun because tecteun is a pan fried sontaran and now I’m gonna wok right outta here! Ha hooo
It's weird that they try to play this as A Moment when Tecteun was only created one season ago, and even then only mentioned in an exposition dump and has no actually meaningful connection to any character we care about. Sure, she's The Doctor's mother, but who cares when even The Doctor doesn't remember?
Well theres still potentially a biological mother and father that could pop up and then be killed off too before we get a chance to care.
Correct me if there was already an explanation to that but I'm almost sure that Tecteun was around for a little bit, she just didn't have an specific name or story (or character for that matter) but I feel that she is the same woman that appeared in 10th Doctor's final episodes as that mysterious woman who looked at the doctor in a very "mothery" way for a few moments
@@obiwankenobi687 I know she was obviously not supposed to be Tecteun per se but I'm saying that: if her character was really never properly defined it might just be Tecteun now, that leaves room for it
I found it frustrating that Chibnall just offed her like nothing at the end of this episode. Personally kinda wished she delved into the other universe whilst the Doctor returned to ours so maybe they could potentially pick up on Tecteun and that universe later. Find out some information on the Doctor, their race, their home.
I'm glad Russell has chosen to continue on with the Flux stuff and timeless child, especially after seeing how haunted and angry the Doctor really is from learning it all (in Wild Blue Yonder, maybe he can retcon the "death" of Tecteun and she did infact make it to the other universe.
I like Flux especially War of the Sontarans and Village of the Angels, but Survivors of the Flux was the point where I think it started to fall slightly. Had Flux gotten its 8 or 11 as originally planned before Covid hit, I pictured Chris Chibnall had an episode where it was just The Doctor and Tecteun in a Heaven Sent style story and setting where it was just these two talking and having emotional moments and breakdowns with each other regarding The Doctor’s past, her origins, memories, Division and what it actually does and stuff like that could’ve given Chibnall’s Timeless Child story arc a satisfying conclusion before Jodie’s exit the following year.
I know many of you want to forget the timeless child arc but it’s an interesting idea and makes me respect Chibnall for not being afraid to take any big gambles and changes with the canon which could’ve been brilliant to see unfold but with so many plot threads still left like the fob watch containing The Doctor’s memories, the Fugitive Doctor, the destruction of Gallifrey, Ashad’s revival and more, it’s unlikely that Russel T Davies will pick up on any of those plot threads leaving The Timeless Child arc wasted potential. Maybe somewhere in a parallel universe, Chibnall really did get the ending of this era that he wanted to tell. So unless Big Finish and other expanded media ties up any of those loose ends especially with the Fugitive Doctor BF stories coming, I think it’s unfortunate to say we won’t be seeing or knowing how Chibnall’s big plans for the series would’ve ended anytime sooner even if he changes his mind on returning under Russel’s head.
No, I AM your mother.
That's not true. THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!
🤣
For me, his/her mother always will be The Woman who appeared in The End of Time, I tkink that after Doctor was turn into baby by Division, he was adopted by this Woman and her husband who had together Irving Braxiatel and that sisters who Thirteenth Doctor mentioned.
She’s like that woman in The End Of Time special who helped the Doctor but ends of dying later on and we barely knew her too 🤦♀️
She was their mom too according to Russell T Davies... So yeah between this and the whole shit about the Doctor's mom being human idk what this series have with their mother but it's never really exploited
@@gay4sswhovian actually I have a crazy idea to the origins of Galifrey basically humans fleeing the last cyber war went through the breach into the past to ancient Galifrey and became the first people of Galifrey millions of years later evolved to adapt to their new enviroment and became the shobogans who later on became the timelords.
"Morality is a strength!" Being good is good, thanks Doctor.
no way home has a dialogue exchange excatly like this where green goblin says peter's morality is his weakness but everyone loves that lol
@@FirlowXD you can’t compare the doctors fake mother to WD green goblin🤣
I feel like you are purposely misunderstanding it on purpose just to complain or make a joke.
@@dragulouse2219
"I feel like"
That's the problem with people and the world these days.
They spend too much time fallowing their feelings
rather than thinking and leading with morality and their brains.
@@scotttovey Well said !
Im so sad that tecteun is used in flux story and died. She could have had much more better stories.
Was literally just death fodder
@@lewimillionzYT she’ll return, I’m 99% sure of it
It’s weird how when swarm touches tecteun, her and the Doctor just stand there and stare, when it’s shows how easy it is to escape it’s, when the Doctor just moves away in the next episode!!!
Plot convenience/the doctor having plot immunity 🙄
Let's introduce an important character that holds Doctor's secret and kill her off without barely explaining anything!
- Chibnall Writing 101
Shes obviously coming back omg.. 🙄 invalid criticism - stupid (sorry)
@@Sidthechimp timeless child isn't canon.
Chinballs can sugma ball.
@@roguexxrenegade huh
Isn't that what moffat did with river but?
@@gerardburns3062 I mean yeah but at least she got a full arch explaining what she was to the doctor
One of the most interesting characters introduced... Shame they killed her off so early. She could have answered so many questions before the William Hartnell Incarnations. There are 3 specials left, it would be so if they would explain Tecteun and her relation with her.
I guess if they don't tie up the lose ends of Flux in these 3 specials, this could be the driving force of the next incarnation of the Doctor. That might be interesting to watch
It's going to be a hard storyline for RTD to fix and fit into the story properly because we know Chibbs can't really do it well.
@@GAMER36014 Point to be noted
@@GAMER36014 what is their to fix the timelords were pretty awful in the original series as well. All the timeless child stuff just means we don’t have to have a event where the doctor gets a new regeneration cycle every 12 doctors. It also opens up the possibility of more incarnations of the doctor to encounter.
@@Phantom19913 I mean the timeless child stuff does make sense if it was that master that was the timeless child, it would not break cannon, well not as much anyway. But sadly the Doctor is the timeless child witch come across as a complete misunderstanding of the character. The Doctor is special because of his/her actions not because of "destiny" or something. That being said that can be fixed with the doctor accepting who they are now and not who they've been. Other areas that need fixing is what is the importance of the second universe other than the Doctor came from there. How did the Doctor slip into a wormhole and what species is he/her in that second universe. Are these universes in the same bigger space or are these universes the same as parallel universes separated in a different reality.
@@Phantom19913 there's definitely more things that need to be established that I can't think off from the top of my head as I haven't rewatched any of this plotline. Plus I could be wrong about a few things. These are my initial thoughts on the timeless child saga.
Jodie really shined here, we finally get her off her leash when you give her decent writing.
Jodie's acting here is just incredible.
The Timeless Child saved Doctor Who as a show!
I wonder how much of this Irving Braxiatel knows about, The Doctor's Brother sould know a lot considering the number of roles he's had in his long life, before and after he left Gallifrey. Irving could have left an AI in the Braxiatel Collection with information only for The Doctor, to be unlocked with the right questions about "the timeless child".
I really hope she comes back. Now way they killed off Tecteun, the engineer of Time Lords, so easily.
She would be a brilliant villain. Personally I think The Master nuking Galifrey was a smoke screen and the time lords are now ruling Universe 2, maybe with Rasilon back in charge with Tecteun and division pulling the strings behind them.
Now what gets them back into the picture is the next big question
0:05 "Universe 1, if you like."
Geez, this is Arrowverse all over again...
Well, we already know Universe 2... Pete's World :v
Pete's world doesn't have to be Universe 2 necessarily. It just happens to be close, but Tecteun mentions another "next universe". She also mentions multiple universes, so Pete's world might be one of them, but not necessarily the 2nd one, the next, that Tecteun wants to go to. It could pretty well be Universe 3, or 4, ...
I think it's hilarious how any of these commenters really think Tecteun is actually dead...or if she is actually dead, that we won't ever see her again. Nobody really dies on Who.
*The doctor be like:* sorry new number who dis
The flux episode made no sense whatsoever. Couldn't keep up with the storyline at all
Where’s evil Dan, he should be here saying “Nobody loves tecteun more than me!”
He was there six hours ago just like your comment saying that he definitely wasn't behind tectauns death
@@bradleydrake6941 oh when I looked 7 hours ago his comment wasn’t there for me.
@@RobboRobbo probably posted it a little bit after your comment
@@bradleydrake6941 ah ok, ha hooo, that scared me there!
@@RobboRobbo I'm good at this. I'll just wok right out of here
Tectun: I was the one who raised you!
Me: noooo you didn't! you basically used your own child as a guinea pig, costing the doctor a half dozen regenerations in order to find the way to unlock the power of regenerations yourself. I'd say that's why you're not weary, you're scared because The Doctor can change, The Doctor CAN be heartless and cold when he/she wants to be!
Tecteun's death was a super villian 'death', if I've ever seen one, especially in how it was shot, Flux's compact storytelling, Doctor Who is a broad appealing adventure show and not the stuff of mythologies, etc.
Clearly Chibnall can only tell not show… plus he clearly doesn’t love doctor who not being in his own image
These comments have to be sensored. Every website going shows people were disappointed with the flux and Chibnall, yet everyone here seems to love it. If youtube still showed dislikes I think a more true picture would imerge. Nearly 2000 views yet less than 50 comments, this seems suspicious, some have had to been deleted.
Nah, it's just a different kind of audience watching. People who didn't like Flux wouldn't be watching clips of it on CZcams. I didn't like this series either and I skipped all the clips uploaded here except this one.
@@bookcollector538 The ratings disagree with you.
this might be one of my favorite scenes in chibnal's who. Wished tecteun had stayed around for longer.
Yeah, good actress...
She's coming back obviouslt
@@Sidthechimpyou flopped bad
So Division is a void ship?
Let’s hope the next four episodes over the next year explains all the loose ends from this series.
I think you expect too much from Chibnall, I had high hopes for this series... Now I have no hope
@@novawolf_gaming well he’s done it before, twice with less episodes, so did RTD and Moffat
@@DoctorWhoHugh Chibnall has tied up lose ends before? When?
Moffat and RTD are actively better writers and even then Moffat wasn't as good as RTD from a rewatch (although I will always love the 12th doctor), I will still watch the specials but after the last episode of Flux which was a major disappointment... I'm just not excited for specials that are lack luster
@@novawolf_gaming that’s, fair, it’s your opinion and you are 100% entitled to it. I’m watching Flux all the way through tonight, and have seen the finale a few times, it’s quite good once you rewatch it, you understand it better
As for when he’s done it before,
The Silurians
Captain Jack
Fugitive Doctor (confirmed for another 4th and final return)
The Ravagers (temporal beings seton a war against all of space, fail and get “ascended” by their master)
Bel and Vinder
Karvanista and who he is to the Doctor
Tim Shaw
The Timeless Child’s relation to the Time Lords and how it affected their origins
UNIT’s removal and return
The sniper bots on Desolation at the same place as the Stenza
The Judoon chasing the Doctor
The Flux itself, it’s motivation, who controlled it, what it had to do with the Doctor (shown in this video)
And of course the first time with Tecteun
That’s all the payoff’s I can remember
@@DoctorWhoHugh I don't think you understand
None of those tied up lose ends, most of those are the lose ends
Chibnall hasn't tied anything up yet, all he's done is place more string next to the ends
I enjoyed Flux from episode 1-4... 5 was fine but not much actually happened and 6... I mean... It was Chibnall's best finale but... It wasn't great, it answered nothing and made the entire series pointless
Is that the void you know no light, no dark, no up, no down, no life, no time, without end.
This actual might turn into Doctor Who Unbound!!! Multiverse travel!! This is gonna be wicked!!
Huh...I may get the multiverse mechanics needed for my fanfictions after all...awesome.
i wont lie im really confused. Like why exactly did the Division want to destroy the universe?. Was it all to kill the doctor? or is there something im not getting?
The biggest reason was the Doctor's actions. Like Tecteun said, the Doctor brings hope in people, creating uprisings, people rise up to whatever is usurping them, or stuff. The Division wants to control, but hope prevents that. So the Division wanted to abandon this universe and focus on the next one to control it, without the Doctor's influence, or eventually with the Doctor on their team again.
Division's motivation is simple, but indescribable
An interesting direction to take the Timeless Child, an idea I had would be to reveal that the Doctor originally came from the Land of Fiction first seen in the Mind Robber. What if the Doctor was a fictional character created by a TV show that became a sentient being in the world of fiction?
Just an idea I had
This is a very clever idea. It would be interesting to see.
Universe 5556 The Who Universe
Diseny own Doctor Who now
Nov 23 1963 The Doctor’s Universe Started
4.5 Billion Years of The Doctor’s Universe Started and The Doctor Started
One question: Multiversal technology has already existed in Doctor Who, from the Inferno device to Pete's World, so why does Tecteun need to destroy the universe to access the outside multiverse?
Unless, it's a different kind of multiverse, one seperate from the Doctor Who multiverse?
Haven't thought about that... Maybe it's like Rick and Morty types of multiverse?
@@patrexianboy986 I don't follow
@@slateoffate9812 In R&M there is a separate multiverse where the variable is that in those universe the protagonist is not the smartest man in their respective universe
@@patrexianboy986 Wait, at just before 0:22 Tecteun says Multiverses, and mentions the terminology is outdated. Multuverses! Pleural!
Multiverse is about parallel timelines in the same universe existing. A separate "multiverse" would be something else altogether
this technically doesn't make sense due to The Doctor's Wife. the doctor went outside of the universe, and we only saw 1 universe. it doesn't make sense.
Just because he went outside the universe doesn't mean he saw the next, you're just overcomplicating things
@@EternalPayne but we wouldve seen them on screen
@@manly.mcbeefington no lmao
11th said: "We're leaving the known universe", but that doesn't necessarily mean the outside, the same place the Division is at (also known as the Void). In fact later in that episode the House's universe is described as a bubble universe, which is quite a widespread concept in Doctor Who. Like the bubbles of soap, one next to another. Leaving one universe, but at the same time entering the other, that small bubble with the House entity. So it's not really the Void between universes, there's like nothing in the Void, while House was settled on a rock, an asteroid, or something, in fact House was that asteroid. How come there's a sentient asteroid in the Void? Well there isn't.
I wonder if that was Tecteun on the end of time, the one that was contacting Wilfred and standing like the “weeping angels of old” behind Rasselon.
Nope, that woman was supposed to be the Doctor's biological mother. RTD basically confirmed it outside of the show, she was intended that way, but it was never brought to fruition. They left it ambiguous for the fans to decide. But the Timeless Child story arc definitely swept it away, she can't be the Doctor's biological mother, because Tecteun found the child at the gate, the Doctor isn't even Gallifreyan. So yea, they are both different women, not the same, one was supposed to be the biological mother, but never mentioned in the show and later retconned into just a random woman, who for some reason helped. Maybe she was supposed to be one of the Doctor's aunties, or grannies, maybe she was the granny number 7? Or number 5? XD The other was a caring person once, who loved the child, that she found, but with time became the head of Division and grew bitter towards her adoptive daughter, I guess.
100% Correct
@@thomas_vd RTD said that way before Chibnall came with the Timeless child. Yes, you can retroactively explain it, that she wasn't in fact biological, just adoptive, but the original idea coming from RTD himself back in the days when the Doctor was still a Gallifreyan Timelord and not a being from a different universe (possibly) was that this woman was his real mother, the woman, who gave the Doctor life. Retcons and retroactive explanations are fine with me, really no issues here, I'm just explaining the original idea, as it was meant back then. What was doesn't have to be. Now the Doctor is revealed to be the origin of the Timelords, the template for their whole race, so that woman can't be, what RTD meant her to be originally. And that's really fine. Just don't act, like things don't change, the show changes constantly. Stuff originally thought to mean something, doesn't have to mean the same after years and years of changes and revealed thruths.
It's funny. They were so worried about the Doctor finding out what they'd done - they weren't watching for the Master. Oops.
More like a reunion for Tecteun, with the Doctor. For the Doctor it's less of a reunion and more of a fabled meeting for the first time, again. You know, because Doctor Who has to Doctor Who.
I wonder if the “mother” figure in End of Time was also Tecteun
I believe that would’ve been whoever raised the Doctor after the memory wipe. We saw who I assume is the same person in Hell Bent.
Nope. William Hartnell is the first.
i really believe that the Division ship its a TARDIS with no chamaleon circuit
Judging by some concept art I’ve seen, you’re probably not far off
I thought Tecteun was dead before I watched this scene. She should have been The Rani. This was the perfect opportunity to bring the Rani back as it’s all about experiments
Ah yes, the doubling down on the worst retcon in the history of the show.
It isn’t a retcon at all; if you had an actually-functioning brain inside your head, you would realise that.
@@DrWhoFanJ Instead of being unnecessarily rude and bashing the poor guy how about you instead *explain* how it's not a retcon so that he isn't wrong for any future purposes.
@@velahtielredfang9417 I would, but there would be no point. I know these kinds of people well enough to know they just ignore any attempts at explaining the truth.
@@DrWhoFanJ Stop sidestepping the question and explain it then lol
@@NickDaGamer1998 What is there to explain? The OP’s statement is fundamentally incorrect on all counts. That’s all there is to it.
i think she'll be back
Gosh, I was screaming in this scene. It's really good... Can't wait to rewatch Flux with a friend... But gosh, I wanna punch Tecteun so much... XD
I think I would've loved seeing more of her though, we'll see... Maybe she's still alive somewhere, considering the Master apparently comes back from being hit by the Death Particle on Gallifrey...
The Master wasn't hit by the Death Particle. It's really no mystery on how he survived. Really, Ko-Shamus wasn't fast enough in pressing the trigger and we can clearly hear the Master off screen shouting "all of you, with me!", presumably taking a nearby TARDIS to escape with most of his CyberMasters. If the Doctor could reach a TARDIS before the Death Particle blowing up, then why not the Master and some of his creations?
My favorite- Teotihuacán! So many delicious puzzles and riddles to think about for the rest of forever. Thank you!
End transmission. ☠️
"Are you my mummy?" 😅
I honestly thought when we first saw Tecteun in Flux that she was Margaret Blaine. They both looked sort of alike and the manner of speaking was similar
We deserve an video apology from Chibnall
I really hate how little mystery there is to the Doctor's backstory. I don't even hate the Timeless Child _AS A CONCEPT,_ genuinely, I just hate that it's the Doctor. If it were literally revealed later "the Master lied/there _IS_ a Timeless Child but it isn't you," I'd be perfectly satisfied with that. Hell, that would be interesting because then there'd be some mystery around "well wait, who IS the Timeless Child?"
Chibnall's run flubs the buildup so hard. The Division being this great antagonistic force remained absolutely unexplained, effectively being Time Lords but without the interference policy, then wanting to destroy and reset the universe because the Doctor kept giving... hope? Because she discovered the existence of Division?
It makes Division sound so childish, and I love the actress, Tecteun's motivation sounds too immature to take seriously.
I have my doubts that she is truely dead. As the leader of a black ops organization as old as time, she likely has failsafes for her failsafes falesafe.
So the Division is just sitting in the void. What about the huge war between the Daleks and Cybermen that is said to be larger than the Time War that happened in the Void after Doomsday. Wouldn't that be a bit of a hazard.
The Division is outside of the universe, acts in mysterious ways, influences time... Chibnall made canon Sapphire and Steel, too...
Jodie was so underutilized. She had such little emotion in this scene. She was a little miffed, but that was it.
I hate that her Doctor was not a character. She was just an exposition device.
Out of every scene she had during her run, THIS should have been the scene where the emotions came out. The sadness, the anger, the fury. WHERE WAS IT? WHY WAS IT WRITTEN SO BAD!?!!?
This is meant to be such a big impact full sequence of events for the doctor and yet there has been nowhere near enough work done to ground this scene or how these characters feel, honestly sad to see Jodie go she deserved better than the hack head writer she got.
It's because Chibnall and RTD both fake it to make it. Neither can write a full or complex story, and they both rely on phrases and titles that they think "Just sound good" without having a clue how to develop them or implement them in a setting. "The Time War" began that way with RTD along with its litany of silly grandiose names like the "Skaro Degradations" and the "nightmare child". And here Chibbers does the same with "Tecteun" and "the Division".
They are all just place holders for something clever that they weren't clever enough to actually fill in.
Tecteun extracted and duplicated the doctor's regeneration ability, IN HERSELF. So why does she look like the original actress??????
1st Mutant is her so it could go wrong. Hence why her eye's never change,
NOT CANNON!!!
This is so bad. I really miss the good old days when the Doctor's origin was a mystery.
I’m a Dr Who fan but it’s been abysmal tbh
The writing has been catastrophic
He is doing his best to not let them retcon the timeless child B.S.
Fab job as well
Don't the walls of reality prevent multiversal travel? In season 2 and season 4 I think this was explained
Exactly
Doctor who lore contradicts itself all the time. Although honestly even in season 2 they said that dimensional travel was easy when there were timelords. And well… the division is run by timelords.
@@madanotap6492 A timelord. There was no mention of other timelords in division
@@Luke-ky5ed Did you miss the part where the entire organisation was founded as a secret splinter group from the gallifreyan government? The doctor didn’t exactly get to see the whole thing, they saw about 2 rooms of division.
@@madanotap6492 Actually Tecteun was seemingly running the whole thing, as she said "I AM DIVISION". It was founded as an organisation and was run by several people, but it seems, that eventually only Tecteun was left in charge, using whatever she got her hands on. Like that Ood, the Angels and other species. We see only like 2 rooms of the Division, but we don't need to see more, as there's apparently not much more to be seen anyway. Tecteun and the Ood were pretty much self sufficient. And it's far more believable, that something like the Flux was orchestrated, created and managed by a single brilliant mind, rather than several other people involved. Mind you all of them would singleminded agree with a universe ending event? They were a secret organisation watching over laws and order of the universe, even above the High Command of Gallifrey, I really doubt, they would be all voting for the Flux. Whatever happened to the rest, I really think only Tecteun remained, the most ambitious and most brilliant of them all.
Should be titled ‘A Reunion with the Retcon’
All this time, and I still have no idea why any of the villains in The Flux were doing what they were doing. Tecteun? The Sontarans? The snake guy? The Weeping Angels? The glitter skeleton people? Not one of them had a clear motive that I can recall.
The Doctor's outfit looks like something they'd wear on an 80's kid show called Playdays.
If I was the doctor I woulda told her to shut the FLUX up 😂
I really hope Russell T Davies correct all of this non sense that killed the show
She is looking good for 4 billion years old...
Is she? What source do you have to assume she's that old?
The flux has been incredible and weird
No it hasn’t
Agreed
Disagreed it felt rushed and terrible story writing
Hi, Mum!
This is the complete destruction of the series. Doctor who is now an immortal who has lived for billions of years, had thousands of regenerations and is little more than a Time Lord pet. The Time Lords however are no better than Nazi Scientists or US scientists who used to operate on black women without aesthetic.
The doctor has no consequences now and as to the throw away character saying "No more regenerations" we already know that is a lie, so the Doctor can just die as often as she/he likes and not care now.
🎶🙂We are in a state of flux 🙃🎶
3 Specials left and this Tecteun character will cease to exist along with Division, that Timeless Child rubbish and any other "Doctors" who aren't named 1 through 13, War or Valeyard. Russell T. Davies will fix this Chris Chibnall mess and normal Time Lord history will be resumed.
The Timeless Child and Division are not rubbish; there are already plenty of Doctors without numbers (the Valeyard, the Dream Lord, the War Doctor, the Fugitive Doctor, the Timeless Children); there’s no mess to fix; “normal” Time Lord history has not been interrupted.
I still stand by my theory that Division is a TARDIS.
0:05 Or as it's designated in the Marvel multiverse it's Universe-5556
Did they fix the universe at the end of that episode or is earth still the only planet left?
This was Chibnall's chance to change the Timeless Child. All we needed was one line. That's all. However, he decided to double down. RTD, please fix this.
PPPPPLLLLLEEEEEAAAAASSSSSEEEEE
@@BGS456 how did u know?
@@BGS456 ohhh ok, wasnt actully spoiled on this, i found bi-generation weird tho, not
used to the concept
@@thomas_vd 100% Correct about the 7th Doctor.
she existed for far longer than rassilon and almost as old as the doctor
tEcTeUn
(1) The regenerative energy going into the 11th Doctor's mouth was the Timeless Child in a evolved energy form while being sent by the timelords, by Rassilon's orders and though the Division's influence, to make the 11th Doctor it’s host in a symbiosis way as a way to preserve it. That the reason the Doctor was able to regenerate into the 12th and 13th Doctor is because of the Timeless Child and using up all his lives is still a fact. That the Timeless Child is like a life support for the Doctor.
(2) The Master of the Roger Delgado era worked for the Division and the reason he did the things he did in that incarnation. The wanting order in the universe by controlling it while Tecteun knew about the drum beats, the beacon, and how it was slowly driving the Master mad. The Master (Sacha Dhawan) and Tecteun have their reunion after she saved Missy and made her regenerate and the Master knew about the true origins of the Timeless Child from Tecteun and their situation where the being turned into pure regenerative energy and needed a host to contain it and it was him who suggested the Doctor because he/she was an outsider. Thus the energy going into the 11th Doctor’s mouth. The Master also came up with the story that the Doctor was the Timeless Child, and even manipulated Captain Jack, because he knew his enemy was quite capable of using the truth as a weapon against his/her enemies and it was best to keep that advantage away from her. Also, like killing two birds with one stone, he was tasked to get rid of Gallifrey so they wouldn’t get in the way of Tecteun’s plans to move to the other universe where the Timeless Child came from. Oh’ and the portal to Gallifrey was Tecteun’s and she used it to communicate with Rassilon like a phone line and e-mail, since Gallifrey was stuck in a moment in time which gave Tecteun the advantage over Rassilon when it came to a deal, since going in and out was impossible at the time and Tecteun had future knowledge on how to escape, and convinced him to send out the Timeless Child through the crack.
(3) The fugitive Doctor was really from a possible future, while having memory problems because of the Division. The Division must have captured the Doctor in the future. the things mention in Flux, like Karvanista and Ravagers are perhaps a possible future that only seem like the past because of time traveling which ends up with Gallifrey of the past to going after her, since it seems that the Division believe that they're above the laws of time.
(4) When Tecteun and Ravagers spoke to the Doctor, they were probably speaking to the Timeless Child, while the Doctor was seen as nothing but a host, and Tecteun, with manipulating and using the Timeless Child as a lab animal, is no doubt willing to lie, but she was probably telling the truth when it came to the Timeless Child when she/he had a physical body, and she was probably talking about what the fugitive Doctor did after she escaped again and was influenced by the Doctor. That Tecteun’s past is the 13th Doctor’s future.
(5) Rassilon and Omega were probably partners with Tecteun and knew about the Timeless Child, and perhaps his immortality trap in the 5 Doctors was a means to lessen the chance of someone discovering the Timeless Child, since rumors of a being of limitless regenerations was perhaps out there in the public, while it was mention that he had a dream of immortality. He once told the 12th Doctor that they didn’t know how many regenerations they gave him and it might be because the host thing is experimental. The fact that Rassilon left Gallifrey before it’s true destruction means that he could perhaps be still around and holds the actual truth of the Timeless Child. Perhaps even mock the “Renegade Timelord” for not seeing the plot holes in the story that was told to him/her, like the fugitive Doctor having a police box Tardis which happened to the 1st Doctor. Omega’s entrapment inside the anti-matter universe might have been a betrayal, I think the betrayer’s name was Vandekirian on behalf of Rassilon and perhaps Tecteun was in on it like a silent partner, while Rassilon and his followers’ madness of becoming beings of pure consciousness after the destruction of the universe (Ultimate Sanction) may have made him a burden to Tecteun. The Project Revenant that resurrected Rassilon may be connected to the Timeless Child.
(6) The return of Gallifrey. After the Time Wars and being freed from the time freeze, the Timelords decided to create a fail-safe in case disaster happens, especially the kind that ends them and that fail-safe resets everything to before that threat happened, like going back in time, but the system isn’t perfect and needs someone outside to get it working and Rassilon may hold the secret on how it’s done.
(7) On the run from his/her people again. The Timelords decide that the Timeless Child is too dangerous to exist, and since the Doctor is stuck with the entity, she becomes as target as well.
The Doctor Multiverse,14 Multiverses.
I’ve loved all the episodes of the 13th Dr
Are you ok becouse the 13th area had the doctor stand in front of daleks destroyed the first doctor being the first doctor and making the tardis being stuck as a police box before the circut broke
Can we stop filling in the Doctor's backstory, please? Unless we're willing to accept multiple backstories for her, and often him.
I know I like when the doctor was just a time lord and nothing else
@@thedestiny326you haven’t been watching doctor who long enough… he’s always been more than just a timelord
Remember back when the 8th doctor said “I’m half human, on my mothers side” XD (I know adopted technically but still)
Episode number?
Harsh criticisms, biting sarcasm and general disdain....yep Tecteun is the quintessential British mom.
So, what about Rassilon and Omega?