Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
1887 Winchester
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 01. 2022
- InRange is entirely viewer supported:
/ inrangetv
Karl and Sinistral Rifleman talk about a 12ga 1887 Lever Action Winchester shotgun and then do a little easy mode trap shooting with it for fun.
I'm never quite sure if Russell is a willing participant in this series, but I love this series. Hopefully he is having more fun then he lets on. Great to see Russell get the win this time.
You can't tell but he's frantically blinking SOS behind those sunglasses
He's got all the enthusiasm of a teenager forced to be seen in public with his parents. 🤣
I'm sure he is. The thing to remember with Russell is that he doesn't have an expressive personality, at least not on camera. He talks about running these shotguns the exact same way he talks about the KP-15. He's just very subdued. If we see him in a video where he's incredibly animated and excitable, _that's_ when we know something's up
@@HALO-2304 I would be absolutely humiliated if I tried shooting skeet with a blunderbus or 1887 against Karl, but I'd be so excited!
Bros hands look like blown up surgical gloves
There's actually a bug where if you have two of these your range is infinite
I love how a popular video game can forever give a gun a ridiculous reputation 🤣
necessary to outrange professional commandos and their knives
@@pnutz_2 only the lightweight commandos that run marathons
When John Browning designed the 1887 he wanted to do a "slide action" (pump) shotgun but Winchester INSISTED on lever action.
One of those guns i don't have any reasonably need for, but a lot of unreasonable ones
To be honest many things in this world doesnt make sense. Wanting bit obsolete tech gun is pretty down in that list.
I'm sure once that thing runs dry a double barrel might be preferred. However i would argue that if your in a situation that requires more than 5+ rounds of 12 or 10ga. You probably ought to be re-evaluating your life choices, and perhaps extricate yourself from said situation with all possible due haste.
Or have another 1887
You can't be enough of rounds if you need to shoot liquid metal robot killer
This came into being pretty firmly in the "New West" era, but you still has areas the peace was kept by lawmen against cowboys for a little while into the 20th century. If you got into a shootout, that very well may require more than 5 shells.
Mind you, at that time, 5 rounds of 12ga buck was an incredible amount of firepower, and could possibly help you too end such an event quickly, and perhaps even the sight of such a formidable weapon would stop such an event from starting in the first place. But if you had to reevaluate your situation during such an event, odds are the result of that would be realizing you should've brought a .44 instead of a 12ga
Well if your job required you getting into such kinds of shootouts, you probably had a partner or ten with you who were also laying down their own fusillades.
You'd most likely also have a revolver of some description, this would be something you pulled off your horse to seriously get your point across
A number of guys I shot Cowboy Action matches with (and against) had tried these to improve their times, all reproduction examples. None of them could run them faster than either their double barreled guns or a pump '97. I always stuck with using a '97 because I had the natural advantage of being cross dominant (right handed but shot from my left shoulder). I could keep the gun shouldered and feed shells from my belt with my right hand.
In my eyes the double barrel might be faster. But after introducing battle stress and fearing for your life, I think that the lever action would be faster then the double barrel. But what the hell the martini henry worked in battle.
Even John Browning himself said basically that a lever shotgun is a stupid idea.
Second favorite shotgun behind the browning semi auto. Can’t wait to see more!
I thought the first Mummy movie in the Brendan Fraser series had one of these. If I remember right, there was a scene where the shell didn't fully eject. I guess he failed to "cycle it like you mean it."
Really cool video.
No Fraser's character was using a Winchester 1897, the infamous "trench gun" of WW1. A much better combat shotgun.
@@HaNsWiDjAjA I'm going to have to go back and watch it again (like I need an excuse).
I own an original 1887, serial number puts it at 1893 manufacture, loads much better and cycles better than the clones, it's a very soft recoiling shotgun with 80 grains of FFg powder and an ounce and an eighth of shot
Thanks for the information
I would wager it's quite a bit more broken in being over 100 years old haha. I noticed the slides on original Winchester 97's are usually smoother than a brand new Mossie 500
So, I have to ask about the cartridges you're rolling. Is yours a 12 or a 10? And are you running modern plastic casings, or are you using all brass casings? Something which immediately piqued my interest from the thumbnail of this video was all brass cartridge casings being fed into an 1887 (albeit, a reproduction). But, primarily, the thing that I noticed was that they weren't roll crimped.
I ask, because I've got about 60 lathe-turned 10 gauge all-brass cartridge casings that I had bought for a SXS Colt 1883 awhile back, and would like to use them for my next project, but I don't want to have to roll crimp the brass.
I'm currently working on an Winchester 1887 as well. I have stripped it and cleaned it the best I could, except for underneath the receiver tang. The stock screw came to me in an extremely mangled state, and all my efforts thus far have been in vain. There remains no slot in the head to that screw whatsoever. My next plan of attack is going to [regrettably] be drilling it, then left hand threading it to try and break it loose with a smaller bolt.
The stock itself is fairly rotted along the tang area already, and I can clearly see bits of red rust formed under the stock line, but I'd prefer not having to destroy anything aside from the stock screw to get underneath the tang. Once there, I should be able to convert the rust to bluing through boiling, and conserve what is left of the metal, then work towards repairing the wood.
LUCKY!
I'm glad to hear that your original performs so well. I have one of the early Chinese clones and after 10 years of heavy campaigning plus a few more sparser years it is just as clunky as brand new. However, I love it just the same. I am using the same load as you are but with 3F and the concussion will make the score sheets jump up from the table evertime. Lol
This is one of the guns in game Hunt: Showdown. I always wondered why it cycled so slow, now I know.
You have to really work the lever. It’s a long length you have to travel to eject, and if you don’t go the full way it’ll jam up.
Hunt: Showdown is kind of a unique animal. Most times, a shotgun would cycle slow for balance purposes (with higher tier equivalents cycling faster). In this case, they just kept things pretty true to life and it balances itself.
I’ve got one of these with the 28 inch barrel and screw in chokes. So much fun with black powder and a head turner on the skeet line.
Love the series, it’s short and really fun. Also Russell blink 5 times in quick succession if you’re being held hostage
But can you dual-weild them? Remember to use Steady Aim and Stopping Power for one-shot kills...
SINNER detected
French Euro guy here: this weapon is probably one of the best options over here for different reasons
1-pump action shotguns with a smooth barrel require a special authorisation that could take up to 2 years to get (you need to get stamps from regular shooting sessions at the shooting range, and then ask a formal authorisation to buy the weapon). These weapons are classed as B class
2-pump action shotguns that don't require special authorisation (just need a hunting or shooting range license) have a rifled barrel, making them pretty bad with everything except slugs, and are also limited to 4+1 shells. These weapons are classed as C class
3-lever action weapons however, are C class, and limited to 10 shells/bullets. Meaning that this chiappa 1887 is also C class. This weapon is the only smooth barrel shotgun with over 5 shells (i think you can squeeze in 6 or 7 shells) that french people can buy without a special lengthy authorisation needed.
It's funny how a hole in the weapon class system is needed in order for us to have fun with a simple smooth barrel shotgun
Love seeing cool, historical stuff like this! Thank you for all your work!
a reproduction 1887 was my first shotgun and is still my favorite to this day!
I had two original 10 gauges I used in Cowboy matches. Great fun but black powder only. Also had to make sure to tighten screws often. Like every thing they used to be very cheap. Bought my first one for $300 & 2nd for $500 back in the late 90s.
I always love seeing the full brass shotshells and other handloads
You definitely need to find an original. I have one from my great great grandfather that was made in 1892. Very slick and you don't have to work it hard at all. It is a blast to shoot.
Even so, the lever has a very long throw, so that can cause some hang ups. Probably nothing that couldn't be ironed out with practice, but still.
(I also wonder what kind of work could be done on the repros to smooth the action out)
@@PhycoKrusk The throw isn't much longer compared to my Uberti 1866 or my Rossi 92 but I can see how if you are not used to it you could have a problem.
My friend has the Century Arms PW87 clone and that one will beat up your hand tying to work the action.
That statement about being as fast or faster with a double barrel could be an interesting head to head video…
I shoot the 1887 almost exclusively when I shoot SASS / Cowboy Action Shooting. The Coach gun is faster, but I get more style points. Which, as everybody knows, are the only points that count.
During the peak of my CAS shooting career, about ten years ago, I did get to the point where I could shoot my 97 faster than my hammered double and with a single barrel my hits were more consistant. Using blackpowder the style points were very similar. Lol
Yeah, My coach is hammerless, so it can really get up to speed. I should grab a hammered, and go full Doc Holiday. :)
Good on ya but as with any gun don't just go out and buy one willy nilly. Try out as many as you can. The positioning of the hammers to each other and to the trigger and the tension of the hammer springs can be critical for smooth manipulation. For example, that Colt replica that is so common has great hammer position but the trigger guard shape will bang the crap out of you middle finger everytime. If you are a blackpowder guy, I have found that some of the original guns have the best ergonomics and can be found for reasonable prices on Gun Broker. Check out side levers, they are a bit more pricey but can be incredibly fast to open. Happy Trails!
Cheers Karl and Sini. Love this type of rifle.
The Chiappa 87s are fun shotguns, and for that era the 1887s were the probably one of the best things to have if you guarded a stagecoach or something like that.
The most important question most of the time, “was it fun?” 👍🏼
A pedant writes: it is pronounced "Keeappa''. Otherwise super cool episode as per expectations.
I speak second best eyetalian.
@@InrangeTv Good enough for entertainment work.
Fun fact: chiappa means "butt cheek" in italian, but is a common last name
Great work as ever ♥️
Thank you 🙌
I have a model 1895 marlin that's a cylinder bore 410. Never fails to bring a smile to a face when it busts a clay.
Got one made in 1888. It runs super smooth and is really fun to shoot.
My dad used to tell me about his. He had a 10 Guage and no ammo was available so he reloded the same 5 brass shells until the primers would fall out.
I remember using the Lever-Action Shotgun in Fallout: New Vegas quite a lot, so this video puts a smile on my face!
Love it! Very durable and well made
Carl is the best hype man
I've wanted one ever since first seeing T2.
I have an IAC version that I had a custom action job done to it. It runs so smooth and fast now, and is a great pleasure to shoot.
I have a coyote cap worked gun , and agree
I managed to get my self one of these Chiappa 1887 reproduction in December my self. Lovely gun.
The loading can be tricky. But my experience so far is to first push the lifter down, then start to load the shell by nosedive them in the tube. Its more difficult to place them flat and push into the tube.
And belive you can speed load these quite fast with 2 shell at the time. One in the chamber and one directly in the lifter. But yea got to forcefully handle it to cycle properly. My knuckles are often red after some shooting without gloves😂 but still a fun shotgun to use
But keep these coming.👍
Nothing like the old too make you appreciate the modern!
“Give me your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle” “Hasta La Vista, baby!”
Now a Terminator themed shoot would be fun :)
A full range of the weapons (including the real guns the plasma guns were based on) via film scenes would be ace!
It might need cheap drones or helium balloons tied to RC cars to represent flying targets though ;)
I actually tested one of those against a pump action and lever action actually won speed shooting two targets
My great-great-grandfather had a 10-gauge version he lived in Texas I'm sure there's not much that you could not take down with that. It was his only gun
Not sure about the 1893, but the 1897 Winchester that I shot (original) did not like to be babied. The owner advised me after the first shot to work it "briskly."
So many design elements that were in use with rifles that were just ignored on this shotgun.
JMB wanted to work on the pump shotgun but Winchester said "Just make us a lever action anyway, it's our brand." So JMB made this thing and took the money, then later got to work on the 1893.
Karl thanks for showcasing this shotgun. I have long been wondering about your opinion of them. I have an early Chinese repro that I have campaigned in CAS and simply love it even though I never reached the skill level where I felt like I could do the action justice.
Bro on the left makes *Having to shoot clay discs with a historic firearm* look like the most dreaded task on the planet.
Chiappa sells a 30th anniversary Judgement Day edition of the shortened 1887. It even comes in a rose box.
I wonder how one of them eye-tal-yun '87 clones would run after someone like Cody Conagher went through it? I love the idea of a lever action shotgun since I just can't seem to develop the coordination to run a pump gun worth a darn without constant short stroking (yeah, I hear y'all giggling). I wonder how those new Turkish lever shotguns run as well (especially since they appear to be a modified, modern pump action so loading would be more "normal") I mean the quality on their auto loaders has been sub par so I expect they suck too.
I have one of those cheap IAC Chinesium 1887 clones. Surprisingly the only problem I've had with it is for some reason the extractors just don't want to let go of the shell when ejecting loaded unfired rounds.
I used to run around with 2 of these as a sniper a few years back but it no longer hits as far now
Love my 1887, handy little shotgun.
Weird gun, never seen one that can convert brass to plastic. Really though I get it I'm just glad it'll run em looks them looks cool AF.
Excellent for fighting liquid metal robots from the dystopian future
One if my favourite guns.
I have one. You are correct, you have to aggressively operate the action to get it to feed and eject properly.
It's gorgeous
Everytime i see a lever-action weapon in action, and experience with my own Winchester 1894, i see why they where replaced with other better systems. Another good video inrange.
I would argue that s lever action is still perfectly functional in a rifle, particularly one chambered for a pistol cartridge where the recoil is low and the capacity is high.
But given the choice between a lever gun and an autoloader, that autoloader would have to be junk for me to prefer the lever.
@@PhycoKrusk I was thinking of bolt action rifles. Stripper clips plus a simple and strong action.
@@antongrahn1499 if you go that route, you could stick with a lever gun and pick an 1895
@@PhycoKrusk By the time the 95 came around, it was already far to late for the lever gun in military service. It holds no particular advantage over bolt actions of the time and is more complex.
@@antongrahn1499 sure it does: it's cooler.
1:20 Russell powers up from standby mode.
Lever guns are such a unique element of the American psyche, especially in the west. I was unaware of the lever action shotgun, however. Thanks In Range.
In context, I would expect most possible threats to have a six round revolver or a similar gun. I would also assume that there were not that many situation where one would need more than 5 rounds us one would likely not go to such encounters alone.
I may be wrong.
The thing is, the double barrel will also be much faster if you need just two shots. This may have some advantage at 3-5 rounds.
The late 1800s where shells were brass, loading was a bear and horses were nervous. Good times, good times.
In a world of bullpups and new fancy ammo... Inrange proves that antiques can hurt too!
Arnie carries one in Terminator 2, Brendan Fraser carries one in the Mummy Returns.
Yes please!!
I read somewhere that Browning wanted to sell Winchester his pump gun, but they thought their brand was built on leverguns and demanded one from him. He gave them what they wanted, and had the '93 waiting in the wings for when they came to their senses.
If you have a riot shield and one more Winchester in your other hand, you'll be able to reload both in 3 seconds
I’m never going to forgive J Sawyer for including the 20gauge version of the 1887 in new vegas. Damn, I wanted to play around with a 10gauge like Karl is doing
"Alright you got me on that one, but I got you on all of the other ones"
"Yes"
XD
Browning told them it was a bad idea, but Winchester wanted a lever-action.
nice hoping now for a Video About the 1887 is one of the coolest Shotguns ever made
I love mine , the one thing that I absolutely hate is how short the spur on the hammer is. I love using mine for hunting so when I have to decock the hammer. I have to pay close attention to make sure the hammer doesn't slip . Otherwise I love it!
If I were using mine that way, I would definitely add some more aggressive knurling to that tiny hammer spur!
Something about all-brass shotgun shells that just satisfies me.
Looks nice and green out there. Must've gotten some rain
John M Browning actually knew and explained that a pump action shot gun would be better but the bosses at Winchester really wanted a lever action version to complement their famous rifles because they're Winchester so Mr. Browning made it for them.
"... definitively fun... " XD Hide your joy !
Beautiful looking shotgun and great shooting. Would love to see timed test between double barrel, lever action and pump action shotgun.
Double barrel would probably smoke the lever and the pump would smoke both
And watch as someone immediately makes a 3D-printed speedloader specifically for the 1887 and no other shotgun.
Do people forget that if you short stroke a pump shotgun the same thing can happen?
Very antiquated design but it has its place in firearms history
In Australia this is one of the few repeating shotguns we can own .
I always wanted to see a proper video on this gun.
I am especially interested in how the extraction works, since the bolt is rotating, but has to pull the shell out in a straight motion. Also does it use a shellstopper when dropping one round onto the lifter?
Cowboy up! Rack it like it owes you money!
I'm not sure if I'm early or the video got supressed :o
Highly approved.
I want one, terminator style.
Keep it up
ADI in Lithgow made 55 of these in the 90's , howevert the project just fizzled out. Apparently... supposedly they had big problems with the investment castings but they were well made
I love brass shells
"I need your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle"
Great video. I never realized the loading mechanism on these was so cumbersome... I think this might be slower than the alofs magazine 😂
That said, I think 5+1 without reloading still feels like it would have some advantages over a break action when hunting birds or in a self defense situation.
If your game animal is not down with 6 shots or your tight spot situation havent cleared after all of those then i dont think
side by side would been any better to have.
@@Kesssuli I was thinking more about bird hunting before the advent of limits... In a big flock 6 shots of 10ga would drop more birds than 2😂
@@kschleic9053 I dont see many situtations where 2 shot is better than 6. Not knowing too much about hunting laws in states because in europe
mag limits in hunt are only for semi-autos. Manually fed guns can have capacity much as you want.
Edit: When i bought my remington 870 i was wondering why that so called duck plug come with it.
Not installed but still.
even Mr. Browning said that this is a stupid idea to design a shotgun
I can only agree with him
For the Chiappa 1887 has a FASTLOAD option for CowBoy Action shooting it’s quite fast and the 1887 is more reliable than the 1897. There is a Chiappa you tube video using the FASTLOAD.
Now a Terminator themed shoot would be fun :)
A full range of the weapons (including the real guns the plasma guns were based on) via film scenes would be ace!
It might need cheap drones or helium balloons tied to RC cars to represent flying targets though ;)
Hey Karl, just wanted to say that I had a dream in the night where you got attacked by a polar bear. You survived but I hope it wasn’t a bad omen!!
Love to play this gun in fallout new Vegas, really fun gun for cowboy builds
Black aces makes a modern variation of this system that might be worth your time to check out, if memory serves correctly it’s not as far a throw on the action so ejecting shouldn’t be as tedious.
Nice
Hunt showdown brought me here. 😀 Great content as always.
I have one of those cheap IAC Chinesium 1887 clones. Surprisingly the only problem I've had with it is for some reason the extractors just don't want to let go of the shell when ejecting loaded unfired rounds.
Great gun, but the post 1901 rev is the one to get. Smokeless and smooth, also it only came in a 10g after 1900.
After mastering this awesome gone there are two ways you can expand, you either dual wield it and go Call of Duty or use it while riding a motorbike for Terminator
Actually guys I would suggest watching some videos of CAS shooters using these. They actually seem to load at least as fast as the doubles. They take two shells in one hand and shove them both in with one fluid motion then close the action and blast away. I would say that in a defense situation this would make this faster than your average pump as the combat load on those is one shot at a time. In the CAS situation ejectors are not allowed so the double users have to shake out the empties before reloading giving the 87 an advantage.
CAS is maximum boomer.
@@drewwilkie86 Works for me. Loads of fun.
You gotta combine it with levering trait and flechette shells. Then it's a monster xD
For the algorithm gods