Porsche 944 - Fuel System Overview: Parts, Issues, & Costs
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- čas přidán 29. 04. 2021
- This video provides an overview of the Fuel Delivery System used in the Porsche 944, including a description of the main components, common failure points, and tips/recommendations for testing and replacing parts as well as their associated costs.
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I was marveling at how clean that car is, then I noticed it has 170K miles. Wow! That's a well cared for machine.
Thanks Matt! My goal was to get it to 200k, but the more I drive it, the more money it asks me for. 🤪
I was going to say the same thing. Looks like a new car engine bay.
Who the hell disliked this video? As always, Great job. Thank you.
Excellent video. Easily the most comprehensive, well explained source on CZcams for 944. I have learned more from you in the last week than my previous months of viewing , searching.
Thanks Jim! It’s not perfect and I’m not professionally trained, but it should be mostly accurate. 😂 I try to do a fair amount of research and confirmation before re-sharing what I’ve learned. Glad you found it helpful!
Absolutely briiliant! So helpful and couldn't be more thorough and informative. I can't think of another guide that has been done so well. Thank you very much
@@RichardMartin-q9i Thanks Richard! I have a more recent video on the channel that focuses on the fuel pump and filter replacement if you need even MORE details. Cheers!
Great video! Really appreciate the thorough breakdown. Subbed
What an excellent video. Thank you!
This car is next level. That engine bay is incredible man.
Definitely one of those rare cases where the engine bay outshines the exterior paint job. 🤣
Simple no nonsense approach. Mahalo!
I have a nicely aged '87 I just bought. Lots has been done to it recently, but not everything I want done. I've been watching these videos obsessively. Yesterday (Christmas) my wife had to tell me to turn it off while the kids opened gifts. The best gift this year was from me to me! Thank you! Very well done! I can't wait to tear into it!
Ha, that’s funny! The day before Christmas, I was editing my latest video and my wife told me to stop doing car stuff. 😂 The ‘87 is a nice year to have, plenty of updates from the early models and fewer electrical gremlins. Best of luck as you get started!
@@NC944er Thank you! Wanted the updated interior and a car that didn't have to have the engine out for some repairs. Also, where did you get the stone guards for yours? I want the more 911-ish ones. The ones I mostly see are ugly parallelogram looking. I truly appreciate your videos!
@@ch-lx2fl What I did for the stone guards was pick up a set of 930 decals like these ones and then I cut the bottoms off to fit the 944 - www.ebay.com/itm/131242525848?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=NLAUVx0gR7e&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=E3wwf34yQjS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY -
I needed this to repair my 86 951. Thank you!
Incase you haven’t heard it enough; thank you for these videos. Picking up an 83 this weekend; you’re a godsend.
Thanks man! How did the purchase go? Lots of fun to be had with the 944 platform, best of luck as you get started. 👍🏼
I recently stumbled onto this channel. Wow, I can't believe how detailed, knowledgable and thorough this content is presented! The best for sure!! Thanks!
Thanks man, I appreciate the feedback! Cheers!
Thanks for an excellent video very well done.
this is amazingly helpful, thank you!
Another outstanding video! I used your videos to sort thru my first 944 (1989 NA), and now as I sort thru the low mileage 1989 Turbo I recently purchased. Thanks so much for supporting the 944 enthusiasts!!! By far the most concise and easy to follow tutorials I've seen. Now to go tackle my fuel system...
Thanks Robert and best of luck! 👍🏼
If I had had this kind of video for every vehicle I worked on I would have saved months of searching and mistakes. Thanks!
Yeah man! You may learn more from the hands on mistakes, but a rundown of issues hopefully saves some people a little time and money. 😂
Well yeah, I'm about to make plenty of hands on mistakes with my rusted battery tray repair.@@NC944er
Amazing work man! This is just what I was looking for, just bought an 89 944 S2. Liked and subbed immediately.
S2 videos are hard to come by, but luckily a lot of stuff is transferable. Congrats on the purchase! 👍
@@NC944er much appreciated! I was very fortunate to snatch this one up. It'll be up on my channel soon as a reveal. Keep an eye out of you want! I'm binge watching your videos now to get familiar with it 👍👍
absolutely awesome video. and thats the cleanest engine bay i have ever seen on a 944. this is the most helpful video so far.
Thanks man! I’ve got a whole bunch of other 944 system overviews here on the channel. Thanks for checking it out. 👍🏼
Amazing video. Props.
Great video!
Brilliant video, really helpful. And your car looks mint, beautiful
Thank you!
The biggie I am waiting for next is when you tackle the clutch replacement. Excellent video and great content. I am using your timing chain/balance shaft belt replacement for my 87 944 that needs them. Thanks again.
Haha, nice! 👍🏼 I do have a Sachs clutch kit on hand, but the spring centered clutch in the car now has a little over 50% life left, so I don’t think it will be any time soon... barring any unforeseen failure of the rear main seal. Van Svenson has an excellent one that is worth checking out - czcams.com/video/_qmQbGNuzug/video.html
Best of luck!
Great video!!! I just got a new DME relay and fuel pump for a 1986 944 I just bought!! Definitely got me as a subscriber. If I change those 2 things I’m hoping it’ll purr like a kitten 🤘
Sounds like a fun project, best of luck!
You set the bar high for engine presentation!
Thanks, at this point it outshines the exterior paint job, which is kind of the opposite of most 944s. 😂
Great video as usual. Just got an early 944 and I’ve been watching all of your videos to familiarize myself with the car. I just replaced the fuel filter and was wondering how to test it for leaks and this video answered my question! My big challenge with my car is diagnosing an overheating issue and I just replaced the thermostat. A video like this one but for the coolant system would be super useful.
Yeah, I posted a coolant system overview awhile back, but it’s not very heavy on overheating issues. Most common ones originate to the cooling fan relay, thermo-fan switch, or improper system venting. The early 3-blade fans are also significantly underpowered from an airflow perspective. If your fans are operational and all that, have you considered an upgrade to the later 6-blade fans?
You always make very informative videos. Good work. Always carry at least a 2lb ABC Fire extinguisher! No matter how well you have restored the fuel lines. Better safe than sorry.
That… or significantly increase the car’s stated insurance value. 😂 I have actually been thinking about picking up an extinguisher.
@@NC944er I had a 924S-SE, 87-924S and a 77 Rally Yellow 924, and I had an extinguisher in each car. To many horror stories. I sold all three in two weeks 3 years ago. And recently I bought another SE and 87-924S. So I'm back at it again, 😃
Nice engine bay. 👍👍
Very good and clear video, thanks! I'm looking to replace some fuel lines on my 924S (mostly what you cover in the first part of your video, near the fuel tank). Do you know if the system is very different? I assume it is similar but not exactly the same...
Nice! Yep… you should find that your 924S has the early metal fuel tank and fuel level sending unit (mounts a little differently), so some of the hoses will look a little different, but all the other components like the fuel pump, filter, and strainer will be the same. Once you take a look, you’ll be able to orient yourself pretty easily.
Great video! I went through just about everything that you mentioned 2 years ago - part by part: replacing fuel gauge sending unit, strainer, pump, and filter. Now I’m looking at the fuel pressure damper. Too bad this video wasn’t available back then, but there are great sources for troubleshooting and replacing components.
Btw, awesome extra clean car you got there. How did you clean the head cover? It looks like it just came out of the show room.
Thank you! If you’re referring to the camshaft housing, it was glass bead blasted and then powder coated in satin clear coat, along with the intake manifold. Cheers!
@@NC944er thanks for the info. Once again, great video.
Update: I replaced the fuel damper and check valve within the last 6 months. It seems that I still have an issue where it takes 2 to 3 times cranking the engine for it to start. Tried swapping DME with another and no difference. I’ve found possibly faulty reference and speed sensors. I’ll have to replace these. Do you think this reference sensor would affect starting? The speed sensor, I believe affects my tachometer - that’s probably why the tach doesn’t work.
@@glow9999 did you replace the check valve on the fuel pump?
This video was 4 weeks too late :). replaced fuel strainer, pump, and filter on my 90 S2 cab a few weeks ago. Been watching your progress as it sort of follows my own.
Haha, I’ll try to be more timely going forward. 🤣 Very cool man, the S2 is a nice machine. Best of luck!
Hello there.... Great quality and informative video series! Been in the 944 game for a long time -almost 40 years now! I do all my own work and its a hobby I really enjoy! I really like that you had your hard parts restored. VERY original looking! Where did you send them for yellow zinc plating?
Hey Mike! Glad you enjoyed. I used Parker Metal Finishing out of Greensboro, NC - parkermetalfinishing.com - about 35 minutes from me. They specialize in industrial stuff, but do some auto things on the side, minimum of $100 lot fee, which will cover nearly every steel item in the engine bay. My understanding is they will take shipments, but luckily they were close by and I could just drop it off. Had to indicate yellow versus white zinc, and the stuff will go in based upon the timing of their larger orders.
@@NC944er THANKS for the quick reply! I have to say you came out of nowhere with these informative well made and above all accurate content videos. What inspired you to start the series? I did a complete clutch "how to" tech article several years back. Its still out there being used after 25 years! Keep up what you doing. Look up Mike Kehr 951 clutch replacement.
@@mkphotomikekehr1141 Haha, thanks man! I used to be a technical trainer by trade, albeit in a different industry. At this point, I’ve basically consumed an unhealthy amount of content and it’s being regurgitated in video form. 🤣 I was looking for a head gasket series and couldn’t find one, so since I was going to do the job anyway, I figured why not document it along the way. The Porsche community is great and I’m just trying to make a contribution. Glad some folks are finding it useful.
Your clutch article looks beyond thorough and sufficient to scare away most DIY mechanics. I’ll keep it in my back pocket. 👍🏼
I salute you
Great video as usual! I kind of wish you actually changed the parts in this video to see what happens. I barely do this kind of work on cars but I obviously know there will be fuel in those lines, but watching someone else do it first would at least give me an idea of what to expect when changing hoses or the pump etc. Nonetheless, this video was very informative.
Haha! Yeah, cracking the seal on any fuel connection just releases a little pressure and then dumps gas everywhere. Just be ready with catch rags and a pan if one fits, possibly safety glasses if you’re under the car. I’ve taken more then one bath in gas, which is never fun.
Are there any good videos on changing these systems? I too have quite a bit of corrosion in the pump / filter area….
Questions on the Rennbay fuel line kit you used under the hood. How much extra line did you have them add to route it away from the header? And did you add the extra shielding to the supply line? Looks like both supply and return hoses connect to the metal lines with compression fittings, correct? Your install has a very nice 'could have been factory' look that I'd like to replicate in my car. Thanks again for the great videos!
Hey Robert! It was about 2-3 extra feet. I would reach out to Travis at Rennbay and explain that you’re looking to route the lines back and then over, he’ll cut the length needed to get it done and it was about $20 extra as I recall. The lines use aeroquip compression fittings at the metal lines, comes with the cutter and everything, real easy to do. I had to stagger the connections about 2 inches apart because they mount so closely together in the wheel well. The rubber shielding on the supply line is a piece I transferred over from the factory line after removing it. Adds a little abrasion resistance.
Great video! I'm looking at refreshing the fuel system and wanted to ask when you rebuilt the fuel injectors, did you have the injector baskets replaced too with aftermarket ones?
Yeah, the fuel injector service included before/after flow testing, ultrasonic cleaning, backflush, and all new top hats, spacers, o-rings, and internal filters. They also painted the external metal housing in black, so they look a lot nicer. 👍🏼
Yay, you did the video. Just to let you know I think I’m going to buy that kit from Lindsey racing related to the mass airflow. Saved my birthday and Christmas money. Now I can afford it. Ha ha next is brake pads, brake sensors, and rotors. Oh yeah and changing the transmission fluid. Can you tell me where those venting or vapor hoses are located near the tank? I keep smelling gas around my tank, hope I don’t have a hole in my tank. Thanks oh yeah, no more leak around the banjo fitting
Alright, great job on the fix!
Fuel smells are common and could be a number of different issues, anything from tank, to lines, to gas cap, or charcoal canister. You’ll have to start pulling back trim pieces and doing a sniff test to narrow it down. Here’s a good place to start - rennlist.com/forums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/571783-gas-smell-where-is-it-coming-from-2.html
On this car, the metal J-shaped outlet lines at the top of the fuel level sender were cracked. Replacing the unit resolved it for me.
Can you tell us how you made/ where to find that little “jumper”? Thanks so much!
Hey sure! Just pick up some 14 or 16 gauge wire, cut a small length, and crimp on some male blade terminals. Supplies can be found online or local hardware stores.
@ Min. 2:56
My fuelpump is like double the size and fixed to the cover via a big hose clamp thing. So i can't lower the cover enough to reach the screw of the clamp. Looks all OEM and rusty. (1988 German S1 without Kat.)
Any tips
Yeah, the OEM setup on the fuel pump has it enclosed in a large black rubber vibration isolator, which is why yours is probably larger. That rubber housing have been removed in the video and replaced with an aftermarket rubber sleeve that's much smaller. You should be able to access the clamp through the smaller metal inspection door/panel that can be removed from the lower tank cover.
Can you cover mainatence of hoses on top of the fuel tank ?
Hey Robert, I haven’t done much with those fuel vapor/pressure lines since mine are in good shape, but if they are loose, cracked, or leaking, there would be the scent of fuel vapors in the cabin and you’d want to replace the lines. Here are a couple resources that may help…
www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ts-03.htm
www.manualslib.com/manual/881678/Porsche-944.html?page=53#manual
Excellent explanation. This will help me chase down a rich smell of gasoline on my ‘86 in the garage and also picking up gas fumes in the cabin as I drive. Known culprits?
I’d check the fuel level sending unit at the top of the tank, there’s a gasket there that can wear out, as well as the outlet connections for the vapor lines which can crack. If the odor is emanating more from the diver’s fender area, it could be the charcoal canister has cracked. I’ve also noticed stronger vapors coming from the lines in the engine bay when using 93 octane fuel, but not when running 87 or 91.
Thank you so much. I will check those things this weekend.
Where is the charcoal filter located? And did you have difficulty taking off those lines off the sending unit? I got frustrated with those hoses, I wanted to cut them.
The charcoal canister is located behind the driver side fender. You can remove the plastic wheel well liner to access it. They can crack and expel fumes, which would normally emanate from that area, so if yours is coming from back by the tank, I would focus back there.
As I recall, since it’s a bit tight at the opening at the top of the fuel tank and the lines were a little firm, so yes it took a little effort to push them off and out of the way. Don’t cut them 🤣
Hi, where did you buy the two engine pressure and return lines (maybe also the small pressure one between the injectors)? Do I have to cut the hard lines in the wheel arch also on a 91 S2? Thanks!
The fuel lines shown here are Rennbay’s kit and the jumper line was purchased from Pelican I believe. That said, the S2 has a slightly different setup. The lines route similarly down into the wheel well, but you won’t need to cut or modify anything like on the 8V cars, the S2 lines bolt on at both ends. 944Online has a set of basic black ones and Lindsey Racing has some colorful braided ones, a few other options out there. 944online.com/944-s2-stainless-steel-fuel-line-kit.html
@@NC944er Thanks for quick and accurate answer...I was investigating on google as well and arrived near your conclusions... Just not understanding (not having the car near now) if to reach the fittings I have to take off the tire and everything or they arrive to the engine bay...Anyway I found oem like lines to the rail in Europe for cheaper, but about the 2 small damper lines at the front of the block can't find something if not the expensive braided ones from Lindsey, that will also be more expensive when shipped to Italy :/
@@TastingCars PartWorks is a reliable vendor in the European area with lots of 944 parts, I’ve used them a couple times - partworks.de/partworks-de/
@@TastingCars As far as the lower fuel line fittings, they should protrude far enough from the wheel arch that they can be accessed directly in the engine bay without removing the wheel well liner. A rare benefit on the S2 that otherwise typically presents more complications over the 8V cars. 😂
@@NC944er yes, the place in Europe I told where I found the lines was at partworks! Cheaper and already in Europe! :) Only can't find the damper lines here :(
Anyway, maybe finally a joy, an easy thing on the s2, immediatly counterbalanced by the air filter location 😂
Hey , you have given me the last bit of information that I needed to get this car running. If I asked you the actual value for a car that has no rust , interior has been completely redone and the exterior is at 75 % and will be at approximately 90% . What do you think the base value would be? Running great now .
That’s awesome! Values are up over the past 4 years, but have dipped just a little with the turn in the economy over the past few months. All original, low-mile examples command the sharpest values, where everything else kind of falls in the middle. Little things can tip the scales… like having recently replaced the timing belt or clutch, I’ve seen that alone add $3,000 to a sales figure. Rare options like sport seats, limited slip differential, sport suspension, Fuchs wheels, etc. can also spike prices a bit. What is the year and mileage on your car?
Hey man I’ve been watching some of your videos I just did my starter and swapped my relay I’m so stumped is there anyway I get get in contact with you help me with my 944 im thinking it might be fuel next I’m at a point of just swapping the whole engine beacuse I’m thinking it’ll be cheaper then swapping all these parts
Hey, sorry to hear the car is giving you some trouble. My email is listed in the “About” section of the channel.
i need to get my injectors cleaned and possibly rebuilt. What company did you use for yours? I want a place with a good reputation. Thanks!
I used RC Fuel Injection out of California. They offer a warranty on the service and have a pretty quick turnaround. They replaced the spacers, o-rings, top hats, filter/screens, and painted the exterior housings black. www.rcfuelinjection.com
At 9:47 you mention issues being ,rough idle, engine running rich etc.. are you referring to the fuel pressure regulator?
Yes, if fuel pressure is not optimized by the regulator, those are some of the symptoms, among others...
Here is some more information: www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/fuel-07.htm
What’s tricky is those symptoms could also be caused by the AFM, O2 sensor, clogged injectors, etc, which is why it’s best to test if you have the tools to do so. Otherwise you could just start replacing things (more expensive), and if one doesn’t resolve it, then you’ll have a larger parts inventory at home. 🤣
Question i got the remebay kit to lines run to other side i tried starting but one line leaked. Im kinda lost now because its a compression fitting can i just take it off try again
Yeah, you can… I’d probably try tightening up that connection a little more first, see if the fitting just needs more compression. If you remove the connection and find that the end of the hardline is damaged or deformed in a weird way, you may have to cut that material from the end before reconnecting it.
Will try thank you
Gave it more still peeped out just took line off looks ok and where i made the cut looks ok ill try cleaning it up more then reconntion
Please can you do a tutorial on the speedometer and cable I have a temperamental speedometer
Regarding the speedometer, the early cars feature a cable setup ($30) and the late cars (85.5+) have a sensor setup ($115).
The first thing I would do is ensure that the connections to the gauge cluster are fully and properly connected.
If it’s an early car, the speedometer cables can wear out over time or completely snap, part number: 142957801C. I would check out edredas video for replacement - czcams.com/video/1VUrexnLEtk/video.html
If it’s a late car, the most common item is the impulse sender on the transaxle, part number: 944-606-210-00. I would inspect and clean the connection point there first and make sure it’s well seated, see if there is any improvement.
Thank you for the advice
Question. I’m looking into trading a car of mine for a 944 the guy says the fuel pump doesn’t start unless he sends 12v to the fuel pump what do u think would cause this?
Hey, that could point to a few different issues… a bad DME/Fuel Pump Relay is probably the most common cause and simple to swap out. If the car has the factory alarm installed, a failed alarm control module can disable the fuel pump. There is also a fuel pump fuse that gets overlooked on occasion. Other suspects could include a faulty ignition switch, poor grounding, or damaged/disconnected wiring. If you end up getting the car, this is a good place to start - clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/fuel-16.htm
Have you ever had to service/replace the charcoal canister?
Hey, no… not yet. They are known to crack with age and then gasoline fumes can be detected in and around the area of the driver’s side fender, but I have not had this issue.
@@NC944er Thanks for the quick response. I have this exact issue you describe on my 1989 944. Going to be taking it apart soon to investigate.
@@JFDLV Yeah, just remove the left front wheel and the drivers side wheel well liner and you’ll have a good view of the canister. Good luck!
can i get a list of parts from you for complete fuel system rebuild? everything from the back to the front minus the fuel lines please...i just purchased 88 944 and needs some TLC
Hey John, I don’t really have a list like that built out, but it’s fairly easy to obtain that info from the classic parts catalog found here - www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/classic/genuineparts/originalpartscatalogue/ - just select the model and year and then download the PDF. Pages 110 and 146 have the fuel system components displayed and listed out.
@@NC944er oh lord i was looking for something a bit more simple like;
fuel filter, fuel pump, etc...lol
there are two parts on top of the fuel rail that i dont know name of that i want to replace when i do injectors...
@@johndeltoro7990 Gotcha! Yeah, attached to the fuel rail are the fuel pressure damper (944-110-201-03) and the fuel pressure regulator (944-110-198-03). There’s also a short high pressure fuel line from the damper to the rail (944-110-413-02) that could be replaced while you’re in there if it’s showing any signs of aging/cracking.
@@NC944er yeah I’m going to just replace everything because car has sat for a while and really don’t trust those kind of parts just sitting and drying out
@@NC944er ok my friend I need your help 911!!! I can not for the life of me figure out the clips that hold the fuel injector(s) into the fuel rail…can you please shed some light on this?? I thought I paid attention to them when taking off but I guess I didn’t…. Thanks in advance
Like the hygiene under the hood #Clean . Can u refer me 2 the zinc shop. Im n cali u no the restrictions
#PorscheNoSubstitute
Here’s the company I used, but they are on the east coast - parkermetalfinishing.com
There may be some closer options for you so you don’t have to ship the parts so far.
@@NC944er thank u i dont mind shipping
Amazing video! I’m learning a lot from you. Do you have an Instagram ?
Hey man, thanks! No, I’m keeping it old school… just doing the CZcams stuff, no other social media.