TIG Welding Technique: Lay Wire Tips and Tricks
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- The "Lay Wire" Technique is a method of adding filler material when TIG welding that is often mis-used and can be a controversial topic when talking to many welders. This technique is often used to get cool looking welds, or achieve a look of welding often referred to as #weldporn.
The problem with the Lay wore method is, while looking very good, it can also lead to a variety of problems with the welds structure, size and penetration. If this video, we will show you some reasons why you may consider using this technique, why you would favor other techniques (like the dab technique) over this method and we will even demonstrate how to perform lay wire welding.
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I have used the 'lay wire' technique on open root faced pipe and never had to worry about penetration. Also, I've kept the wire in the puddle running hot and fast to minimize distortion. In both cases, it is very important to start out right, getting fusion on both sides and to the root, Otherwise, a 'banana' puddle will result.
I like watching these old videos and see the main host today is a guest back in the day
NC BANDIT, Yes and he has become a better presenter.
From my exsperance and how I weld pipe every day in the industrial industry Lay wire is the most commonly used methad . After you put that root pass in wheather its the lay , dab or back feed technice when it comes to hot pass, fill passes and cap its all lay wire 90% of the time.and lay wire dont mean you lay the wire in the area your welding and never move it. when I run my root its lay wire and I slowly feed the puddle, when I do my hot pass its lay wire and im hauling ass at high heat and feeding in the wire, when I do my feel passes or pass its lay wire at high heat and im almost shuving the wire in to fill up the rest of the bevel to flush it out if I can, when I cap it its allways lay wire. So point is lay wire dont mean you lay the dame rod down and just weld over it you are laying the wire in there and constantly feeding the puddle when needed. this vidio was a very bad example.
Two of the best teachers on youtube together in the one video - life is good
Studying in a welding college right now and my teacher actually showed me laywire himself and told me it produces a better "Throat" measurement whereas the dabbing method produces a more fluid weld for polishing etc.
There is a place for both and when done correctly they are both very effective. Thanks Bob!
I can't believe that the world renowned Mr. Tig didn't know lay wire. I've never etched my welds, but I crank up the amps and shuuuuuvvhh the wire as fast as I can run. Straight line run can out run mig any day. Really helps when u want silver colored stainless welds.
hi I'm mr tig and here's a man with the world's tallest hat
this comment is the greatest
James Armstrong, lmao
James Armstrong hahhahaha
Well he is the 'head' inspector
Lol, yeah, I've learned a lot from his videos. I wouldn't care if he wore a bucket on his head.
Bob Is Mr. REAL TIG.
So true. I wish I had him as a teacher 35 years ago
How about lay wire with pulse on?
Excellent video always good to learn different techniques that exists.
0:24 - if you see the face from Bob Moffatt :D its like "dude, he's talking like a waterfall, make it short man!"
He never seems like he wants to be in these videos
I probably should"t post this but - After reading the comments I figure if you told someone that if they go outside in the rain without an umbrella they would get wet, someone would disagree with you.
I feel the video reinforced common sense.
Hmmm. I've welded hi amp tig roots on pipe with power positioners and the lay method is the only way at 260 amps. You can even let go of the wire when getting short (about 2.5 - 3 in and the magnetic force will suck it in as you grab another rod from your back pocket to keep going. It is about heat as much as it is about torch inclination, and if you were to direct to straight on to the root you can get root suck back. Even travelling up hand you can roll the wire side to side with a weave in front of the tungsten at about 150 amps with 5/32 wire and pass x-ray. Trick is watching threat the puddle stays fluid and you see it flow where the heat is.
Iv used the lay wire for my stainless steel t fillet test and the dab for the aluminium test and had no problem passing both but always running a little hotter if using lay wire to make sure I get good penetration
Hi guys-surely the torch angle s wrong for either dab or laywire? It looks like IMHO it should be more vertical !
I use lay wire all the time and it works great, however, TIG leaves no room for forgiveness when using the lay wire technique. If your arc length is too long or your travel angle is too low, you do cause the filler to ball up before you get to it. Other than the demand for consistency, lay wire works rather well. At 7:25, his travel angle was too low for lay wire. No forgiveness.
In school rn we are getting taught the Lay-Wire technique I believe just to get us started on TIG. And it does work you just have to keep the filler at a good angle and wiggle just a tiny bit. Not a whole lot
Great video! I have a particular weld problem and would greatly appreciate your thoughts. I need to build up about an inch of new metal on top of a 1/4 inch hot rolled steel bar. On a vertical surface. What tungsten size, rod size, amperage, and technique would you use? After the required build up the new mass will be ground to a particular shape. It is not structural. I have a 200 A machine. Thank you any suggestions would be most greatly appreciated.
i know ive been doing laywire for about a year no problems at all. you'd think someone that refered to themselves as "mr. tig" would be more knowlegable
+65diesel4x4 he is giving chance to other guy. I am shure that mr tig know about this
We always use the laywire style! We have many certifications using the laywire given by certified welding inspectors! We do 6G position testing! We do bend test, side bend test, and tensile strength test! All our certifications we cannot have any defects! Tig weld a T-joint using the laywire style, only weld one sided, then put the weld coupon in a press and break it. You will see the laywire does just as well as the dab style.
It makes sense to have only 1 thing moving, your torch. Would be easier.
My experience with laywire is that at a certain point you can just have a trickle of filler metal coming in to the front of the puddle without burning back too much. I'm not super experienced with TIG but that's just what I've seen under my arc.
Pulse setting might help with that
You have to feed the wire in slowly. Do it right and it's fine.
Great videos keep on with the good work . l learn a lot. I like your explanation and videos. Thank you !!
I've heard of the lay wire with a weave. but I have a feeling it's more for exhaust tubing or intercooler piping. or at least that's what I'd use it for.
can I dab with a 6011 electrode
+Marty rizzo I think you should try and let us see the results.
+Pizza Welder lol, the 6011 you are referring to is a stick rod I would us a er70s-2 or er70s-6 for mild steel
+Marty rizzo lmfao
+Ethan Schulz lol I know. I was joking... kind of.
Oh I know you where joking I was trying to reply to the first person
It is used often.. in the piping industry.
why didn't you cut and etch each weld to prove or disprove ones superiority over the other? open root pipe i almost always use laywire and it is strong and clean. nobody cares about ones opinion on penetration show it!
Jody from welding tips has demonstrated this technique multiple times in his videos and never fails him. I also prefer lay wire. Sometimes with a small drag back and forward with the puddle for that root.
+Mr Leb I watch Jodis videos all the time. He should be calling himself "Mr Tig"
Ebrahim Bhamjee I agree. His welding is gorgeous every time not even breaking a sweat.
No way you can get proper penetration laying wire on a fillet weld. You need to burn into the root before adding filler.
I'm New with tig and just purchased a new lincoln square wave 200 so can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong? every time I try to dab the filler rod it seems to stick to the piece I am trying to weld. I'm using ER70S2 with 3/32 PURPLE tungsten with 16gauge steel plate at 80amps
what Dia filler are you using? at 80amp i would be using a 1/16 filler. a 3/32 or 1/8 will cool the puddle to much and cause that sticking
your not hot enough it sounds like..or filler is too big and cooling the puddle off to fast..raise your amps 10 or 15 amps and go from there,and maybe slow your travel speed a bit.
also you can go on weldingtipsntricks fourm and get some pro advice to help you out.good luck
I prefer walking the cup then dabbing. On 3/8s plate t joints I’d run around 150-160 amps with some 1/8 inch rod.
Like,bob said,,, laying cold wire requires higher amperage,,,,, you need to liquify the metal so you can get proper fusion
Thanks Don M.....Great Videos.....
When Tig welding how far do you put the tungsten out of the cup. I’ve been having problems sticking
Depends on the cup size. Rule of thumb is 16th of an inch for each cup number. Like number 8 cup is one half inch. Number 12 cup would be 3/4 of an inch.
lay wire should not be done on inside corner welds. outside corners and maybe flat. but it takes time to get it right, you have to watch for vallimg of the filler wire and be on it to push the wire into the puddle.
yes exactly same here! I believe the reason is bcz they don't usually weld on pipe. you see I'm from the south I work in refineries and all i weld is pipe and the lay wire technique is great for the root
+Marco Duran haha I meant to put this under Susan wood's comment
We always use the laywire style! We have many certifications using the laywire given by certified welding inspectors! We do 6G position testing! We do bend test, side bend test, and tensile strength test! All our certifications we cannot have any defects! Tig weld a T-joint using the laywire style, only weld one sided, then put the weld coupon in a press and break it. You will see the laywire does just as well as the dab style.
I have used lay wire on nuclear xray welds. If you want to show people how to do it, find someone who knows how. It scares me that this guy is teaching people how to weld. If you don't know how to do a type of welding, that doesn't mean it can't be done or isn't as good.
Phillip Morrison We always use the laywire style! We have many certifications using the laywire given by certified welding inspectors! We do 6G position testing ! We do bend test, side bend test, and tensile strength test! All our certifications we cannot have any defects even if the code allows for defects! Tig weld a T-joint using the laywire style, only weld one sided, then put the weld coupon in a press and break it. You will see the laywire does just as well as the dab style. A lot of people are using too big filler wire, if the base metal is real thin, you don't use 3/16" filler metal! We weld 8" pipe that's 1" thick and we only can Tig it from root to the cover pass, the laywire style works perfect! Every pass is inspected by Certified Welding Inspectors, then when the welding is completed for that joint, then they are tested by both X-ray and Ultrasound! We weld missiles for military, we are required to use the laywire style on them!
I'm guessing a fillet would be best with dab because you aren't blocking your arc with a fillet rod. But open root pipe or any butt weld or gap your want laywire to bridge the gap?
lolz larkin You can use lay wire with fillet welds and should never be blocking your arc. You control the amount off filler metal with the angle of the filler rod. The higher you keep it off the base metal the less heat it gets and the less filler will enter the puddle. Your push angle can also be used to add more or less, but that will affect your penetration. At for open root, if my filler fits rod through easy I dab, if not lay wire is fine. You can use them interchangeably. You just have to practice. I also to something that is a hybrid of both I call ball and blend. I use a shallow angle ony filler with a little more push. I allow the filler metal to ball till just before it drips then quickly, and I mean QUICKLY, push my arch forward, grab the ball, pull it in to my puddle and blend with the bead. I mostly use that for overhead or in tight spots where I need to add more filler but have a hard time moving both the torch and filler.
is it just me or does it look like his tungsten is ground the wrong way??
dont go overtop. point the tungsten at the end of the filler rod and walk the cup. this is best of large gaps. lap and butt joints it makes no sense
what camera do you use to film ??
RIP Mr Tig
first build a fuken puddle just lay the wire... alot of pipe fitter use walking the cup.. which is laying wire.
I always use the lay wire technique ........... out of my mig ..................................................
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"Mr TIG" was terrible at TIG welding....Hahaha!!!
Love both you guys. Wish you were my neighbor. . I need to learn to weld
Gene Miller you sound like a needy gold digger. Go and learn on your own and stop asking around like some chick that needs a man to survive
His tungsten is hardly pointed towards the metal no wonder he said "it looks like it is just laying on the top" the arc has force to push the metal in
I think he has weird angles to let the camera guy get his shots so not only does he have weird angles but is often welding these welds blind.
Bob Moffat is the best.
how can you call yourself mr. gig and not know lay wire? it is used a lot.
+TheCheezy08 We are aware of the Lay Wire Technique. It was simply a way of introducing the college and allowing them to showcase their instructors and welding program. When we get questions or comments that we feel Mr. Moffat is better suited to address, we use it as an opportunity to spread the word for welding education. Not to mention, Mr. Moffat is a damn fine welder so we like to have him on from time to time. Thanks for watching.
cheesy, at no point did it seem that mr. tig was ignorant and looking for answers of his own, it was clear he was asking questions in a way that was for the benefit of a beginner welder
+L Anderson Well said
i use it all the time too!!! easiest to do on seams of fuel tanks or outside corners!!!
TheCheezy08
Omg this video hurts my head... Why everyone who tryes lay wire has to "walk the cup" just keep the wire in the puddle on right angle and rise the ampers! 😖
Crank up the amps and go !
why
Wow. Just realized how old this is.
When you set out to show a technique doesn't work, you will make it not work. Smaller filler rod, PUDDLE CONTROL and making sure you get penetration is key to laywire success. One can make dab technique fail, too, if you use wrong torch angle, arc height and gas flow. Actually trying to make it work has as much positive effect as trying to make it fail has negative. This is where personal biases come into play...consciously or unconsciously. I do find most of your videos helpful...just not this one.
What an unnecessary video... if you can't walk the cup or pause and dip you aren't a very good welder. Nothing wrong with laying the root in on a fillet weld with walking the cup as long as you're running hot enough.
+Dp908 I think they are agreeing with you to some extent in this video (the 2nd part anyway). They say that this can be used on heavy material when more heat can be added. You can't really crank up the heat and do this type of weld if you're welding 20 gauge stainless.
RIP
It's called the root of the weld not the throat.
+Tony Turner The "effective throat" of a weld is the minimum distance from the root of the weld joint to its face less any reinforcement.
lol fillet wire
Lol
Get lazy