Ting-Lu is Changing Competitive Pokémon Forever!
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- čas přidán 5. 04. 2023
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The bucket on its head is for collecting your opponents tears after you hit fissure
Carcass pieces*
Very clever
“HAUNTED ROCK MAKES NOOBS CRY SALTY TEARS!!1!112”
I like that Fissure is synergized with Stomping Tantrum, effectively turning the latter into a ground-type hyper beam, but with a die roll to OHKO on its down turn.
When you put it that way, it sounds pretty busted. I can see why it's used.
But the dice roll OHKO is really fricking stupid you have to admit
@@TetraBui not when the game devolves into a 39 turn staring contest.
@@TetraBui dicerolls have always been part of pokemon. diceroll crits are what prevents me from playing comp pokemon for any extended period of time as i eventually get annoyed at them enough to stop playing. IMO there is little difference between crits and ohko moves in terms of how they make me feel emotionally. and while you may feel diferent, the simple truth is that dicerolls are always a major part of pokemon.
@@AbsurdAsparagus yea I guess :/
This is an ANTI-FISSURE HOUSEHOLD
laughs in tera flying rock moose*
Well said. 👏👏
Skill issue
If we have to counter Ting-Lu ex, we have to go with Meowscarada ex, since Ting-Lu ex is weak to Grass, and Meowscarada ex is a Grass type.
While fissure is a little too unfun imo for this format. It mainly punishes balance / slow team statistically wise so maybe the meta will soon shift around that which will automatically make fissure see less use
0:15 Friendly correction, since these are Ting-Lu's stats prior to the 1.0.1 patch. Currently, mud moose sits at 155 base HP, 125 base DEF, and 55 base SPA, the rest remains untouched!
EDIT: Just wanted to add that I enjoyed the video regardless, fine work!
They nerfed our boy
@@Justpassingby204 His calamitous friends too! Granted 145 SPA on Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao rocking 130 base ATK would've been excessive. Though I'm certain Wo-Chien would've been more than thankful to hold on to its original stats, even if it would've amounted to 'em just being slightly more offensive. 🤔
It's actually a decent strat. You don't rely on fissure to hit but to power up ST, but you can have the backup strategy of using luck to kill opposing walls. 2 birds with possibly one stone strat.
I think it’s cool and interesting seeing an OHKO move being viable for once. The synergy with stomping tantrum is really clever. I might get sick of it eventually though and then be happy when the next big thing comes around.
At least fissure can be played around unlike sheer cold. You can immune with a lot of things, tera flying, magnet rise, flying type Pokemon, air balloon, sturdy. It will add some spice trying to find ways to immune it.
You technically can for Shear Cold too, it's just the method of playing around it is way stupider and more unlikely to be present in a game. Ice types are immune to Shear Cold. So if you have one you can switch it in. You can also technically tera ice too. I don't think anyone is bringing tera ice on anything though.
About playing around fissure: I have no experience in the competitive pokèmon scene, but I don't understand why nobody seems to have thought to use spite yet
There are a few good pokemon that know spite, including Ting-Lu - all you'd need to do is be faster than other Ting-Lus, wait for it to use Fissure once, then nullify it - and I struggle to see a world where spite isn't useful in other situations too
Is there a reason it isn't happening?
@@CZcams_Hivemind_Member I would say that the main reason is a small return factor, let me explain.
For your pokémon, you only have four moves and although it really seems as a lot, it really is not, most of the time, you want (and now I will be pretty generic, since move choice is really diverse): a STAB move /moves, coverage move (or disruptive move) and Protect. Here you go, you have used two/three moves out of your Pokémon and although it might sound that the fourth move is just good enough for the Pokémon to use for anything (coverage move/random move), it surely is, but for the whole team it is not. Well, this concept is known as a "Team Synergy", in other words, you need to choose the fourth move (or the moves in general) to accomplish a very specific environment in your team, in which every Pokémon from your team fits a special role. Is it to help set up an ally Pokémon (with for instance follow me or Rage Powder)? Is it to disrupt enemy pokémon with moves like Taunt or Will-O-Wisp? Or will your opt for a healing move? Well, it depends on the team, but for this exact reason moves like Toxic, Confuse ray, Aromatherapy, Lock-On or Safeguard are not used. In other words, to have a move in your slot to counter one specific strategy is a potential loss for your overall long-term prosperity. Like, to have move/moves that are very niche and not consistent or made to counter very niche strategies or plays, are not good in a long run, since you are facing multiple different teams and builds with the one same team you have. If players could build one specific team for each matchup, we would surely see more moves like this being used, but since you do not know which teams and strategies you will be facing, these moves, although being very ineresting and unique, are not used, since they would work out in 2/10 cases, but as a competitive player you need moves and movesets that will work 9/10, no matter your opponent and will give you the best overall chances to win against the unknown you are facing in tournaments. If you reasoning is not bound in synergy, but in countering one specific move, it would not make it, unfortunately, since you would even get the chance to use them in like 2/10 cases and I say chance, because it is the plays that also matter, you might not even get the chance to use them in the first place. The other reason is that competitive player prioritise attacking moves with secondary effects like Snarl (to lower the opposing team Special attack with damage instead of using Confide for example, you gain two instead of one) or a move like Flip turn that gives you a free switch and damage and I wrote free, since the secondary effect it like your second move, you want it in order to achieve a specific goal and help your team in a long run, instread of using pure damaging moves only (which is the same case scenario). They are good on some pokémon, but not consistent enough to run two of them on any pokémon (Giga Impact/Flare Blitz or Close combat/Brave bird). There is, of course, countless amount of exceptions. However most of the time, you want either an offensive pokémon, a support pokémon or a disruptive pokémon that would work in many cases, not just in few of them and well, Fissure countering is one of these examples, where it is simply not worth it. Even one move can make a difference between winning and loosing and if the purpose of your move is to counter one specific strategy even after a very particular set of circumstances (Ting Lu using Fissure and your pokémon outspeeding him/her), in a long run, it provides a small return factor, in the grand scheme of a direct presense multiple team with extremely high variety, which keep evolving every tournament. I hope I explained the topic correctly, I apologise for a wall of text. I really enjoy Pokémon and explaining things I understand in great detail.
Hope I helped, have a nice day.
One hit ko moves are funny af, besides you can counter it with sash, sturdy, flying types, levitate, air balloon, protect, substitutr etc.
It's pretty interesting! Just because it has low accuracy doesn't mean it's low value, especially given enough turns! Focus Blast has a notorious chance to miss, too, but people still run it because it's worth the return on turn investment, & I think that's the case here as well OHKO moves aren't as extreme, but still: It seems like it's a calculated risk that it seems like pays off more often than not. (Plus the Stomping Tantrum synergy.)
Anyway, neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
great videos, you have a good way of demystifying competitive
I know it was the case that when Battle Stadium came out the RNG seed was the same for every fight, so you would have turns where Fissure was guaranteed to hit. Not sure if that's been fixed.
Its been fixed, the thing is people can feel safe using fissure because Ting-lu is bulky so they can spam it even if it fails.
fortune favors the bold fissure is a skill shot
This is a banger
I think Fissure is okey for Ting-Lu because it synergizes too good with Stomping Tantrum and it really does help against annoying stall Pokes like Wo-Chien and even opposing Ting-Lus
very well edited video! for someone who is trying to learn and get into VGC, this video was insanely helpful. keep it up!
Also i just watched Freezai's video of him battling a Ting-Lu fissure player and he's not happy about it 💀💀
2:36 The Thanos twerk killed me
dude, amazing video. love the edits, you just gained a sub!
I didn't mind OHKO moves when they were things niche pokemon brought because they had nothing better to do, but when they become an important part of a Mainstay's moveset that means there's something wrong with the meta
ting lu is actually a bowl with a moose attached for mobility if you read the pokédex entries
when 'unaware substitute/rest dondozo' is a thing, then 'fissure ting-lu' is the result.
Sturdymons rise up ✊
This is some 100K+ subs quality
Woah, really sick editing !
I'm glad you like it
Wo-chien is good at cheering the other treasures
He's so supportive!
It only works because tinglu can live basically any move, so it has opportunities to spam fissure and tantrum
Great analysis and great animations. Subbed.
Can't believe fissure is meta now
your videos are WAYYYY too good for you to only have 4.5k subs
That means a lot!
Real chads use choice band
more like choice scarf fissure
Choice specs fissure
Man just made the "double it and give it to the next person" trend get into Gen 9 VGC with the stomping tantrum tech lmao
"Fiona, stop" better be a new term in the pokemon battle sphere
I actually didnt notice Joe did that until we made this video. Its REALLY fricking funny
Wait, Ting-Lu ex is going to be very good ?
Guess i'll counter it with Meowscarada ex then.
When *I* try to use an ohko move, it's banned because it "doesn't fit the competitive spirit", but now all of a sudden when a horse with a bucket welded on it's head uses an ohko it's "competitively viable"
All jokes aside its really fun seeing how what's cool and what isnt changes over time
I honestly was laughing when in one of my online matches the enemy ting lu seem to have no guard as its HA and kill my entre team with fissure.
Wait until i bring Sheen cold chileno pao youll see :(
This video IS BASED. 🔥👍
Counterpoint: it's funny
Sounds like Terra-Flying and Flying types would be more viable if Fissure is allowed to stay.
It probably won't though because nobody likes to be "luck'd" against. Even if repeat Fissure misses results in their victory, they'd stay quiet about it.
VGC doesn’t ban moves the way singles does! If a Pokémon is legal for the “regulation” they won’t do things like say “you can run this guy but only without this move”
Ah, so this is one angle of an unhealthy meta game, 1-hit ko moves being competitively viable. Absolutely fascinating
Pretty funny ngl
I think it will just be one of those things you have to play around of, making sure you don't get in a dead state of the game with a fissure on the field.
Just bring a flying type 5-head
This is the format where corvinight is actually good
Me when I click fissure (I have all the time and rolls in the world)
ITS A MOOSE !!!?!??! 🤯
Groupon when.
all i can say is thank god we don't have no guard fissure machamp
I actually have a lot of respect for this. I like how it synergizes with Stomping Tantrum, the low chance to connect makes it a hype play, it's a good way of putting stall mons in their place, and just because it's Ting-Lu, it feels extra appropriate. The Pokedex entries and the stories surrounding this Pokemon make it apparent that Fissure is a de facto signature move for Ting-Lu, since that's what it does to spread ruin.
brb while I make an anti-meta superman team
When bank drops people will just use lando T fissure all day with ting lu Lmaooo i think lando could use gravity i kinda forgot
really entertaining video!
also, fissure is so frustrating. its balancing factor is that it wiffs most of the time and if it wiffs you wasted a turn, thus making conaistent moves a better choice
yea, thats how they thought it would work
but thats the thing: you might be the luckiest dude in the world, hit 4 fissures in a row even though you were in a losing position
or you might just get nothing
there is nothing about fissure that lets you earn a ko with it, its just completely random
so no skill is involved with using fissure (unless you think of avoiding stalemates as a skill)
if you win with fissure you're sadly just lucky, not skilled.
so yea i dont like ohko moves. glad we don't have em in singles
my opinion, such as it is, is that this one of the things that makes Pokémon a really good game. That randomly kind-of unviable things find a niche, a zeitgeist, and it becomes a formidable strategy for period of time (often a short one). There's more of these zeitgeists than I could ever log here (or anywhere else). They really speak to the creative possibilities within the game.
And maybe Fissure/OHKO moves should be banned, I'm just happy to see the game is still wonderful, wonderful in the way that it's designed to cause new tech to be discovered every week.
Maybe we don't play Pokémon as much as we explore it. The shifting meta in Pokémon is wonderful.
Idk why I find competitive pokemon so interesting even tho I've never played it, but I never really liked stats based around luck
VGC Competitive pokemon is kinda dumb compared to Smogon singles. This video for example. Allowing moves like Fissure reduce the game to so much luck that it removes a lot of the competitive aspects. Smogon singles have a lot of clauses in place to make the game more balanced, and more skill based. Try your hand at it sometime by playing Pokemon Showdown.
@@willmurrin9344 Both are great and the game is designed around doubles which is why smogon has all those clauses for singles. I play both and hate the mentality that one is better then the other because it's official or unofficial
@@willmurrin9344 This is the first time fissure has ever been viable in doubles except in a few cases where it is just used to get a higher bp max or z move where the move usually doesn't get clicked anyway.
I think it’s fine, because most times it misses and you do nothing for a turn, for a small chance to ko
Just have a flying type and then fissure can't hit? Or that Balloon item? Or tera-flying? I don't know anything about comp pokemon so maybe flying is so garbo that having a flying type is worse than maybe getting 1HKO
Nice idea, people will run full 6 flying types after this
@@hakimalam7753 ting lu can learn stone edge, so it can still deal painful damage there
I find it absolutely hilarious that of all moves to be controversial for competitive.. a highly inaccurate move is the choice..
Also did not know wide lens did not help OHKO moves...
Yep! Only things as far as I know that fix it are no guard and mind reader
I thought OHKO moves were banned in competitive?
Only on smogon singles
@@hakimalam7753 Smogon is cringe tbh
@@titanium4082 its based you mean. Dont have to deal with cringe fissure 😂
@@RinaShinomiyaVal still is tho, and all because they can't think of a good way to counter no guard Machamp (another ohko move or a strong psychic type would work) or last respects houndstone (apparently too powerful, even though there's plenty of ways to counter), and more
But honestly at the end of the day if you like Smogon that's cool. I just think it's dumb cuz it restricts stuff like that, it honestly feels like Smogon's treating people like idiots who don't know how to use their brains to counter stuff
The vgcers JUST got the ting lu and they already broke it. This is why we can't have nice things. Well fucking done.
Its true fissure shouldn't be allowed in vgc instead of skill it would be exactly like he said a game of chance.
It's almost like the Pokemon company is trying to ruin the Pokemon competitive scene.
Everything in pokemon is a game of chance. So many games I've played have shifted on a lucky flame body or static or the 4% crit. Fissure actually has a lot of work arounds, and people complaining about it are probably the same people who cry hax at lucky freeze. I'm not saying fissure/stomping combo isn't strong, just that this isn't as broken as people want it to seem. Luck is a major component in every pokemon match and if you aren't prepared for it then you are probably gonna have a bad time
@@charnalk5572that is true
@@EmberSetsukoalso true
See it a lot on Battle Stadium singles- hate it, just hate it.
I really dislike OHKO moves as a concept.
If it's in the game and obtained legally, anything goes it's not my fault the game is unbalanced 🤷🏽♂️
I'm shocked that vgc doesn't already ban ohko moves. It seems obviously banworthy to me.
Haven't they always allowed people to stall the timers the whole entire game as well? That also seems anti-fun and a problem as well.
They never been viable until now except occationaly to get a high base power max or z move
@@orionl7406 That almost never happens. I can't remember a single tournement game that went to time.
In short this is kind of BS. It just gives you a dice roll that might delete something and even missing is fine seeing as you can double Stomping Tantrum. One hit KO moves are luck. Removing bulky stall or other things that give you trouble with these moves is not skill it is RNG giving you a win. No meta should ever let those moves be this useful. Get that thing in Trick Room and it can BS past a lot of teams off luck and a boosted Stomping Tantrum. Nothing here is really skill based. You are letting dice rolls play the game. That means you can BS past any check simply by having the game let you one shot something.
I disagree. one hit ko moves are being used because the game has become very slow paced and stally with things like dozo tatsugiri. It is similar to a critical hit. I is absolutly possible to play around (they all have imunitys). No one is ever going to win a tournement just because of o ko move luck they still have to be a skilled player. Also even withour o ko moves the outcomes of most games could still be changed by luck but it feels differnet because it is a lot of 80 or 90% chances instead of one 30% chance.
Dont hate the player, hate the game. If you win when you run this, its not the fault of the players who want to win
yeah, imagine you just fish for fissure KOs in Singles, were you are utterly helpless if the luck isnt on your side, because you have no second teammate to help you out. Its a luckfest. Literally. When its allowed on smogon, everyone slaps it on bulky mons with recovery options and clicks it 8 times, I mean when your switch in gets 1HKOed you can propably stall out the rest of the battle. What you gonna do, your best wallbreaker against XY is dead and now it pp/toxic stalls the shit out of you!
Skill issue. Just use a flying type or levitating Pokémon.
@@egbertmilton4003 that's why moves like sheer cold are better at this. And even then: switching a flying type into fissure? Well stone edge is coming next dude
@@shimogane2474 On a Ting Lu? Really? And again, Levitate, or even Air Balloon, they allow simple counterplay.
@@egbertmilton4003 doubles is fast paced, singles you switch forth and back many times, like for 60 rounds + until you get the breaking point to sweep. while doubles matches end in less then 10 rounds and you get 1 OHKO, maybe 2 out, in singles you can just hit the button 8 times with some prediction and be guaranteed that something dies. You not going to build your team around a fucking 30% accuracy move. Thats too inconsistent and in one in 3 matches you will get hit off guard because of it.
There is counterplay, but it is inconsistent too, so you put in a flyer just for fissure. What you do against sheer cold? Air balloon is pretty much a one use. This doesnt work for a complete game.
I think it's more interesting that the meta has evolved to a point where regular damage "doesn't matter" so a meta breaker like Fissure Ting-Lu is needed. So I hope we don't go down the road of banning OHKO moves as opposed to banning Pokémon themselves. The Ruin Quartet and other stat modifying abilities are overpowered, and their wielders should be removed from the format imo.
This meta sucks huh
Get rid of the following: OHKO moves, intimidate, baton pass, evasion boosting moves/abilities, trapping moves/abilities and shed tail. Also, nerf substitute alongside encore. Do all of these things gamefreak, and competitive Pokemon is saved. Otherwise, I and several other long times veterans are going to continue getting sick of the game. It was bad enough when power creep was constantly on the rise, but now we have to deal with dumb luck too? Like, come on, this is getting downright ridiculous for those who take the game seriously.
Smogon bans OHKO for a reason, just saying.
VGC is not Smogon singles, just saying.
Smogon is also boring and isn't Nintendo, just saying.
Also, in the case of ting-lu, it's not hard to counter. Sounds like a skill issue imo
@@titanium4082 no it isny 😂
@@morningcolossus thats why it sucks
@@RinaShinomiyaVal imho if you're banning gimmicky moves, you're boring
And yes, Smogon is boring.