What If? The Battle of Dogger Bank
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 21. 08. 2022
- Historical ships in the game World of Warships đ wo.ws/3MrVWY7
A look at the greatest naval battles of the 20th century through the lens of alternative history.
History doesn't have a conditional tense. But that doesn't make it any less interesting to wonder "What if...?" In this new show, we imagine how famous naval battles might have developed under alternative circumstances.
Dogger Bank is a large sandbank in the North Sea about 100 kilometers off the coast of England. The sea depth here ranges from 15 to 36 meters. This area, rich in fish, became a battleground between the British and German Navies on January 24, 1915.
Even though our reconstruction doesn't take a huge range of real-battle parameters into account, at the very least, it has allowed us to compare the advantages and disadvantages of the tactics employed by the British and Germans.
âą What if Von der Tann hadn't charted a course to her planned repairs 24 hours before the raid?
âą What if three sailors led by Corvette captain Hagedorn had opened the emergency flooding valves of the magazine on Seydlitz?
âą What if Admiral Hipper had continued his attempts to save BlĂŒcher, despite the threat of the entire division being overwhelmed?
Find answers to these and other questions in our new video!
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#worldofwarships #warships #wows
#Wargaming #battleships #navalcombats #war #whatif #BattleofDoggerBank #DoggerBank #northsea #GermanNavy #BritishNavy #VonderTann #Seydlitz #Admiral Hipper #BlĂŒcher #navallegends #whathappensif #sciencedocumentary #hypothetical #scenarios #hypotheticalscenario #royalnavy #ww1 #doggerbankincident - VÄda a technologie
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They FINALLY got the proper Naval ensign for 1914 era German ships. Nassau always looked wierd without it.
Seriously WG and this channel should make videos like this more... i wouldnt mind if they put ads in it, its worth the watch
We need historical battles in game
River plate two Leanderâs and Exeter vs Graf Spree. Guess they will have to buff Graf up.
The problem that this video doesn't address is fire control. In real life, it's all optical, and you're spotting the fall of shot to make corrections for the next salvo. Massing fire from four ships on a single target means that it will be very difficult to tell which shells come from which ship, unless they set up a system of timing out the flight of shells from each salvo. The end result could possibly be much greater inaccuracy that cancels out the advantage of massed fire. I've even had this problem myself within the game, being unable to tell which shells are mine during a spot of heavy fire. For this reason, engagements in line of battle generally targeted their opposite number in the line, and only if the numbers were uneven would more than one ship fire on a single target.
a good point.
at jutland the british had big problems in this point as some battlecruisers doubled up - focused fire not by intention but by error in target selection - on their german counterparts. reading the wrong splashes led to even worse accuracy. in all ww1 naval battles the german gunfire was in general more accurate then the british - not with some exeptionable moments.
Sorry but replacing HMS Zealand with HMS Indefatigable means that three of the most important items are now missing. Pelorus Jack, along with the Pui Pui and Tiki worn by Her captain. Failure to adorn these items would prove catastrophic in battle.
The SMS Blucher was not such a handicap for Hipper as many historians have advanced. Blucher's 8.2-inch rifles outranged the British 12-inch rifles, also her armor exceeded the British Battlecruiser armor. The very reason she absorbed so many hits from 4-battlecruisers, two light cruisers, and numerous destroyers without succumbing. Only five torpedo strikes coming from the destroyers and 1-light cruiser before Blucher turn turtle and sank.Blucher being an armored cruiser was not supposed to stand up and defeat a battlecruiser one to one. She withstood the heavy pounding and lasted longer than any of her attackers could have. Another issue not ever mentioned is the "firepower" of those 8.2-inch cannons. Blucher could put more salvoes down range than any of the battlecruisers. Granted the 8.2" shellwaq a lighter round, but salvo for salvo Blucher had no equal that day at Dogger Bank. She was ganged up on because of the superior British speed. Had just one of the older British battlecruisers engaged Blucher, the battle would have been different. Her armor kept her fighting when other armored cruiser designs would have been overcome quickly.
Would like to see SMS BlĂŒcher in the game.
I'm a legends player but I love watching these videos
Franz Hipper is a seriouly overlooked and underappreciated Admiral. Brave, smart, and competent.
Yooooo a what if with visuals are always a fun treat, hope this becomes a series.
what if world of warships was fun to play again
Conclusion - World of Warships is an arcade game and not a naval combat simulator :-)!
nice concept of using wows for what if scenarios. well done.
one point just for the looks: Bluecher is represented by "wrong" ship. Nassau as replacement would look better as the turret layout as most obvious feauture is same in Bluecher and Nassau, even if Bluecher had 21cm guns vs the Nassau 28cm guns.
adding the Bluecher as premium heavy cruiser - at tier 3? - would be great.
how about a "what if" on the carrier battles of ww2 where the carriers go for their own kind and the battle fleets never get in touch with each other. something i miss in wows as carriers are not primary target for each others in early battles.
This is awesome we need more of these and make it a full documentary.
This was pretty RAD..more like these guys!!!!
So even here, German BBs are basically firewood.
Fun video, I appreciate the effort that no doubt went into it. The setup and execution reminds me somewhat of the show Deadliest Warrior.
yes both created very questionable results due to terrible methodology
@@jonsouth1545 Well both lean more to entertainment than 100% accurate info.
Ah yes using World of Warships to try to recreate a historical event.
OMG IM LOVING THIS NEW SERIES!
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A look at the greatest naval battles of the 20th century through the lens of alternative history.
History doesn't have a conditional tense. But that doesn't make it any less interesting to wonder "What if...?" In this new show, we imagine how famous naval battles might have developed under alternative circumstances.
Dogger Bank is a large sandbank in the North Sea about 100 kilometers off the coast of England. The sea depth here ranges from 15 to 36 meters. This area, rich in fish, became a battleground between the British and German Navies on January 24, 1915.
Even though our reconstruction doesn't take a huge range of real-battle parameters into account, at the very least, it has allowed us to compare the advantages and disadvantages of the tactics employed by the British and Germans.
âą What if Von der Tann hadn't charted a course to her planned repairs 24 hours before the raid?
âą What if three sailors led by Corvette captain Hagedorn had opened the emergency flooding valves of the magazine on Seydlitz?
âą What if Admiral Hipper had continued his attempts to save BlĂŒcher, despite the threat of the entire division being overwhelmed?
Find answers to these and other questions in our new video!
âââ
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You guys gonna do the Battle of the Denmark Strait?
Great video. Please more of the them! For example Jutland, Denmark strait and north cape đ
Does this mean you're adding Blucher to the game... I mean I'd totally buy that premium ;)
2 Questions:
1. Why not introduce this and other historical scenarios in the game? (Would love to play this!!!!)
2. Why the hell use the WW2 German warflag (e.g.: 9:56) and not the Imperial one? This took place in 1915!!!
political reasons
@@danh7411 more like they're just using the in-game flag that's already there
@@battleship6177 well that's another. But you have to remember we once had rising sun flag, WG had to take it down cause player's complains
@@danh7411 we did? Damn, that'd been so cool to see.
@@danh7411 using the old imperial german flag is not liked much too as modern german forces explicit deny almost all heritage to imperial and 3rd reich germany. using the ww2 denazified flag - no swastika - is not liked much too, but using modern german flag would not fit either. so each choice is not a "good" choice.
btw, i am from germany - and we love to struggle with our history... hahaha
The German forces would have suffered the same problem as the British did at Jutland by concentrating fire. They would not have been able to distinguish shell splashes from their guns from those of the rest of the squadron. Therefore, it was not a realistic battle with tracers enabled.
Battle of midway, if shokaku and zuikaku participated during the attack plz
Great video - the educational potential of this platform is profound. Shame there isnât a genuine BlĂŒcher modelled for WoW, i.e. with a single aft turret but a pair of side turrets each side. No one disputes BlĂŒcher was an Armoured Cruiser in hindsight, but the Germans classified her as a Schlachtkreuzer (Battlecruiser) at the time. Or treated her as one. Certainly deployed her as one!
This was the first time seeing this series and it was very interesting
This is very bad guess since u use HP points and not ship compartment containning ship's vital enguine parts, every hit would have huge impact on a ship. Example 8:01
Mix a little CGI scenes into this and it'd be perfect!
Battle off Samar please!! And also The Battle of Denmark Strait!!
Really cool video and interesting to see the different battle scenarioâs! It is possible that the outcome couldâve been different if the Tann was present over the Blucher, but even with only three battlecruisers the Germans had the ability to shield the Blucher from the large caliber fire from the British Battlecruisers. As was proven later at Jutland the Germans battlecruisers were capable and taking much more damage and punishment than their British counterparts. So it is my belief that the outcome could have been different if the Germans didnât retreat and leave the Blucher to her fate. Rather if they stayed and focused fire on more than one of the battlecruisers they could have saved Blucher and potentially sink one or more of their adversaries. Iâm not saying the Germans wouldnât have had one or more of their own ships sunk in return, thatâs entirely a possibility on its own, but if they stayed and slugged it out the outcome almost certainly wouldnât have been different.
My favorite historical WOW video: Naval Legends: Missouri. That video has an important ship, excellent historical footage and spans a period from the 1930s to 1990s. And also The Chieftain from World of Tanks. Cmdr_Choad (NA server)
Great episode, keep it up.
What if Bismarck would have survived pls!
At best channel dash. At worst would have been bombed to oblivion in Brest.
@@kaiserwilhelmshatner3156 or soviet BBâs take it out well according to wows
I demand more like this!
It is mine, by right!
So, when are you going to put Blucher, Princess Royal, and Lion in the game?
I'm new to world of warships. i have a couple of friends who convinced me to download the game on my Xbox last week. The game IS very fun, but my primary fascination lies with the naval history, the detailed in-game summaries of all of the ships, and most of all as a long-time student of history, the apparent dedication of the world of warships team to both the community, and also to the history of the period as it pertains to navies and warships. This was certainly above and beyond my expectations for a free to play game.
make more of these
My only question to this is would the british not be using the same ammunition that they did at jutland. We saw in the early stages of the clash that british AP shells were not very effective at all. In addition to this, in the clash of the battlecruisers, the British suffered heavy losses as a result of poor ammunition and powder charge storage. Would this not have occured in this clash to? But other than that, brilliant what if.
Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst and Gneinesau Vs The Home fleet would be a good one to do next.
it's really interesting to see and studying this battle with the ships we use in the game,
thanks guyz for all the work you have made for that !!! đ
A vital point the silly World of Warships game cannot recreate is that due to the German use of stereoscopic they found the range quickly but were very, very taxing to use and their accuracy dropped off rapidly while the more user friendly British coincidence rangefinders were slower to get the range but once found their accuracy increased in short order.
Another what if is" What if instead of the barely trained Tiger, the British had Queen Mary in its place.
Brings back the old cv play styLe
Wow so good bro â€ïž
i like this, please make more
So 22 German hits vs 6British = complete opposite of WOWS where German main artillery can't hit a thing lol
new concept, but fun.
Interesting, but I do wish Americans would not use "English" as a synonym for "British" (which is itself incorrect, the country has been The United Kingdom since the turn of the 19th Century). It's not unlike non-Americans calling Americans "Texans" or "East Coast forces".
Also, be consistent; the vessels in combat were Battlecruisers, an Armoured Cruiser, and smaller vessels. In your simulation, they miraculously become "battleships"!
I thought Dogger bank was nervous Russians firing on British trawlers.
and the snake that throws back the shots of Tito's Vodka
đ« Not me dude! I was under the impression that this was basically the 1915 version of the "North Hollywood shootout", where a band of heavily armed _bank_ robbers attempted to rob the "First National _BANK_ of Dogger Island". But the police showed up immediately, and there was a _BATTLE_ between them and the robbers.
But it's actually a ww1 naval battle. Why can't it be both?
I would like the see the midway and Yamato
1:08 nice clip from wows
Battle of Jutland please
What if The bismarck wasnt alone, and have hipper and Tirpitz together on The formation
The original plan for Rheinubung was that Scharnhorst was actually supposed to accompany the Bismarck and Eugen, but she was under repairs and unavailable for some time. It was also a consideration that the Bismarck and Eugen couldâve met up with the Gneisenau which was in the mid Atlantic on a brief commerce raid, but she had returned to port shortly before the operation, so it would just be Bismarck and Eugen for operation. Admiral Raeder actually want to wait a bit longer until more heavy units were available to start the operation, but with operation Barbarossa starting later the next month Hitler wanted a knockout blow against the British before that as soon as possible. So in the end itâs possible that scenario could have made a difference and spared the Bismarck from her fate, but we can never be entirely certain of that outcome.
This is some nice narration
Hello there hipper
@@DaluckyAsian hi â€
no it isn't some of the pronunciation is abysmal
@@jonsouth1545 what?
There where 5 British battle cruisers and 3 German ones and if HMS Lion was hit in the middle and part of the stern closest to the midships then the stern should point downwards while listing 7-10 degrees to the port side a little bit.
Nice!!!!
Huh, so thatâs what that song from SpongeBob came from
What if iowa met yamato
Well, the biggest difference is, even if the Germans focused fire you don't just shatter and sink another big ship so quickly. These ships can take a ton of punishment. And in real life, you'd have the other 3 Brits able to shoot at their counterparts without the stress of being under fire themselves.
I'd think it would not go well for the Germans if this played out in real like like this.
OK for a minute there I thought WG was implementing a new battle mode. Silly me for thinking you were able to introduce a battle mode that actually works with game meta and is interesting enough for the player base to want to play, to begin with.
why not to think on this "what if"?
how it could work?
you just choose one side and can only select the ship you want to use or you are just the admiral and control all forces
ok, this looks like strategist mode in World of Tanks event in spring 2022.
WG, if you do this, i want my share of revenue hahahaha
we need Blucher in the game, yo.
I know let's make it World of Warships
do one about pearl harbor or midway
Is it really not possible to get someone who won't butcher those names so badly?
Admiral Beatty? No it's "Admiral *Bedi* "
Seydlitz? No no it's Zailitz!
About the only thing we should really expect from this video is that WoWs artificially skewing their largely made up parameters for a scenario to benefit the ships designed for shorter range combat benefits the ships designed for shorter ranged combat.
"What if?" ... The human species would not be so stupid to fight and kill each other? :/
The problem with recreating this in WoWs is that you can always tell which are your shells, concentrated fire in the real world makes it very difficult to spot and correct from shell spotting.
What if: Midway
very neat video does more please
Thats absolutely genius, battle of Jutlandâ€â€â€ Royal Navy vs High sea fleets. đđđ
wait a minute dp this mc is same with WOT mc voice ?
It would be great if you make a CGI Cinematic Videos just like old times.
Lion, Tiger, and Blucher...
Oh my. :-)
Nice âŠ
The German dispersion is unavoidable
I liked a lot the Aquila history video.
Nickname: Maysblind Server: EU
Just getting rid of Lion for no reason I see.
What if yamato never sunc?
What if the japanese had sent Yamato alongside Kirishima in the second battle of Guadalcanal?
South Dakota is damaged worse, Washington gets 2 kills
What if Dogger Bank event use tier 10 ships?
Germans won't have anything and British would only have Daring cause everything else don't exist lol
The "Battle of Badung Strait" what if?????????
Armchair admirals not a thing anymore?
Everybody would have been perma-spotted by the CVs in the Irish Sea and the Baltic, and the battlecruisers on both sides would have blundered into murderous broadsides as they maneuvered to avoid the endless waves of torpedo and skip bombers sent by the CVs safely located far out of range.
Or they both draw because they are stuck in the loading screen đ
@@HoneyBee.productions yep ... imagine 2nd part of jutland with both full battle fleets on stage - close to 100 big ships, not counting the armadas of destroyers - can the server handle this?
Isnt von der tann have 283mm guns? Its not gonna do much since thats not even dreadnought caliber, thats BC caliber.
BC caliber depends on its contemporary Battleship counterpart, in this case that'd be the Nassau class Battleships that also carried 283mm guns.
In terms of German doctrine, the Battlecruisers relativelykept up Armour but a smaller gun caliber to keep up the speed.
In British Doctrine, the Battlecruisers lacked Armour to keep up speed but kept the same guns as its contemporary Battleship design.
Having a lower caliber gun caliber doesn't make your ship a Battlecruiser (a great example would be the Scharnhorst class Battleships which have 11in guns but their design doctrine (and straight up Armour belt) was that of a Battleship (Scharnhorst had 13.5in of belt compared to Bismarcks 12.5in)
@@battleship6177 some point i see in other way. germany used 28cm guns on Nassau and Von der Tann - as on the next BB and BC classes - as standard caliber. Bluecher with 21cm was a "true" cruiser while the Nassau followed the older ships of the line and VdT was a new desing line as battle cruiser. German doctrine at start for BC was fewer guns and slightly less armor - but still BB class armor - for more speed compared to BBs. It later changed for same number of guns but smaller caliber (35cm BC and 38 cm BB).
British used same gun caliber but fewer guns and very less armor - cruiser armor - to get even faster BC. The culmination on this was Courageous class BC. British learned after Jutland that their BC needed much more armor if they want to fight in battle line.
From this point of view german design was"more" succesfull, but this didn't change the way of history
@@edelmann4388 agreed
Pretty nice video. Should we expect sequences ? Like Judland.
And that could give ideas for future events.
It's a nice job that has been done here, I hope to see the same for a "good" evolution of CV's ;) (noprank)
So if this video is something to go on..... BlĂŒcher history before it's released to World of Warships?
The germy should have send battleships to scout instead of battlecruisers. The lasster should have come from behind to tilt the battle. Not this battle but anyone, as a tactics.
buenaaaaa
bruh aroa is a russian cruiser
now is time for ggod time to waste it to focus in
I have a better one: what if you cut with these bulls hits?
What if... I didn't waste time on this.
You just did and even took time to comment lol
lol
This video as usual did nothing but scratch the ego of the kriegaboos. They matched 2 tier 3s and 2 tier 5s against a tier 3, 2 tier 4s and a tier 5. Not to mention tigers accuracy is horrible. And indefatigable is more so a heavy cruiser hull with large guns.
The gimmicks of these lines stop them from ever being close to realistic.
A more likely scenario would be indefatigable and von der tann sink and the rest of the germans disengage.
What are you talking about, Tiger has great accuracy for its tier, playing it I felt if I played a T7 BB. Itâs even more accurate that Gulio Cesar, but this compensated by larger amount of guns on Gulio.
@@SebaX92 she has worse accuracy than queen mary despite the same number and calibre of guns. The UK BCs have tight dispersion which gives the illusion of accuracy. The low sigma seriously hurts tiger. Yes you can fix that by getting closer but good luck surviving long under that hail of fire.
Queen marys dispersion parameters are tight enough to mean that she will more than likely hit what shes aiming at. Tigers is increased just enough that the bad sigma comes into effect resulting in lots of shots going high, low or wide. Tiger has a sigma of 1.5 compared to for example another tier 5 BB with 8 guns. Kongo. Kongo has 1.8 sigma but whilst kongo may have worse dispersion. She is more likely to hit what shes aiming at due to that higher sigma. Renown at tier 6 has the 1.8 sigma. Yes she has 1 turret less. But theres a lot less problems with guns in renown as a result even with only 6.
i didn't get the last statement?
if you talk on VdT being at doggerbank 1915 then look as reference on battle at jutland. VdT took heavy beating in first part of battle but is credited to sink her counterpart. queen mary and indefeatigable sunk at jutland while lion just survived with luck. at real doggerbank seydlitz was lucky but lion was close to being lost too.
imo if VdT would have been ready to battle at doggerbank the german forces would consist of all 1st scouting group including VdT and BlĂŒcher. maybe the british then would have tried to add one more bc too if available...
OK, whatever.
It was a BS What if... If I were the British Admiral, My ships would be using their superior speed and gun range. The Germans wouldn't be able to sink what they can't hit. Just extend to the maximum range of the German guns(which should make them completely inaccurate, especially against speedy targets.)
And if I were Admiral Hipper, I'd run away as fast as possible (which is basically tried to do)
what Beatty tried in the next battle at jutland with very mixed results. the german forces again closed the ranges and with their superiour gunnery sunk 2 of his squadron and a 3rd just avoided the same thanks to the sacrifice of some crew members to flood magazines (was it Lion again?). so extend ranges and out run didn't work that well.
and also at doggerbank the germans fought at their extrem ranges and did hit.
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I like this video. The details and schematics of this video are well done, looking forward to the next one.
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I like this one. The description and use of maps was very good.
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Still nothing any news of ENTERPRISE