CNC Machined vs 3D Printed Cycloidal Drive
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2022
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In this video, we will take a look at my new updated version of the cycloidal drive that I made in the previous video, with 19:1 reduction ratio and see how it performs made with CNC machined parts versus made with 3D printed parts.
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@How To Mechatronics: Hello, I want to buy the Solidworks for Makers and use your 20% discount, but unfortunatelly the link doesn't work for applying the discount - do you have a discount code, which I can use?
@@kaiseraugustus1393 Hey, please check the links in the description again, I've just updated them with the special 20% off discount offer.
Do you have a website with write up of this?
@@HowToMechatronics Hi.. Are you available right now?
hey man i am expert in pcb designing so if you need my service i can work for you i need some work
i do pcb designing multiple layers
Those parametric equations would've been a HUGE help to me and my design team a couple months ago XD. We were using a lengthier method to create some 3-D printed cycloidal disks for a robotics project. Glad to see this method though! Saving this video for future reference :)
Glad I could help!
I made a cycloidal for the gearboxes of a robot arm for my capstone mechanical engineering project. They are nice because it's easy to have the reducer on the robotic arm and it looks good too. Great video. Thanks for taking the time and presenting it.
Yeah, cycloidal drivers can be great choice for robotic arms builds.
Going through the CAD design for a cycloidal drive was very helpful. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful! Cheers!
this is a really interesting comparison. I wonder what the best of both worlds would be. If you just put the cnc cyclodial disks or maybe other parts in the 3d printed version I wonder if its power/weight ratio would beat out the other 2 alone
I have been trying to make an almost 100% 3d printed planetary gear box with good efficiency. And I've already noticed a huge difference between gear generator softwares. I think that's how youtuber Paul gold got 30 Newton meters of torque out of a smaller stepper with a 3d printed cyclodial gear. Your measurements of a 1 to 3 decrease in performance Is significant. I would love if Paul measured the efficiency too. But beggars can't be choosers. Love the video!!!
Thanks for the input!
You should definitely do a video on how you've setup your printer. Your prints are great looking!
Wow. I'm so glad I discovered your channel. Excellent resource and very insightful. Thank you ... 🇬🇧
Welcome!
As both motors were skipping, I was really curious about the internal damage caused. Sad that you didn't show that. I'd love it even more if you would maybe replace the top with acrylic to see what's going on inside
Skipping doesn't cause any damage, as is something steppers do exactly to avoid damage
@@Flashbang_Photo I don't think the stepper was skipping, I think the drive was skipping. The only experiment where the motor was skipping was with the small motor and the machined drive. The backlash was too large for the motor to be the one skipping in the other tests, imo
@@m.sierra5258
If this drive skips, it is permanently broken (as most gear boxes are). The skipping was the stepper motor reaching its torque limit and losing steps. Btw. that's not something steppers do to avoid damage, it's just something that happens when the torque limit is reached (which is defined by the current to motors get, which in turn is set by the stepper driver).
@@superdau where does the max torque difference between the printed and machined box then come from? I don't see how the ratio would differ. Or is plastic just that much more lossy?
@@m.sierra5258 The plastic can't transfer all the torque to the stick. Some of the torque is lost due to the plastic giving up, as the damage at the end showed. Other materials than PLA might hold up better.
Amazing mechanical design.... Thanks for the video !
This is really good because it tells me that it's a really nice design and it's far to many components to be a low cost solution for a budget product, which is good info.
Nicely explained with a good project. 👍
I think CNC's product gives better results rather than printing machine. Printing machine's product are of PBC which are worne out at the rubbing areas and can malfunction due to clearance where as the CNC machine's product are of metal and by greasing it can give a better results in comparison to printing product.
I tried SF1 bushings at one point too (and HK needle bearings before that), but nowadays I press PTFE tube into brass tube to make low-friction bushings whatever length I want and without any seam. Although it is fairly time consuming cutting and deburring a large number of tubes to precise length, even with a tubing cutter. And not all PTFE tubes are concentric, so it can be trouble finding a good supplier.
A lathe may be ideal for that kind of precision cutting
@@brianmgs2006 Was gonna say that, get PTFE tubes with greater wall thickness, smaller ID bigger OD, machine, broach & sand to spec, so you get cheaper materials and greater accuracy, problem solved.
Very good - thanks for making and sharing the video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Cycloidal drives are super interesting, you should do this video format for a planetary gear drive build next. Keep going mate, great content and already subscribed : ]
Thank you and welcome!
Hi, You are great to teach about CNC. Congratulations.
Great video. Nice testing experiments. 👍
The housings on these should have some sort of mounting flanges on them; clamping them as was done in this video shows that the housings themselves move up and down, implying that all forces aren’t being transferred to the load.
Beautiful motor! I've been looking for something for a DIY coffee grinder. How much did the metal motor cost from PCBWay?
Many congratulations!
how much was the cost of the CNC parts?
I learned a lot - thank you! (And I love Solidworks)
Glad it was helpful!
worth waiting for your new video
I think it would also help to use sturdier material for 3D printed parts. I personally use polycarbonate for these high stress parts, as PLA is softer and it can wear quite easily.
Thanks for the input!
What head and bed temp you are using on polycarbonate ? I am just curious to buy and try PC too
@@dzitiatri I use default Prusaslicer values, it works really well.
Try carbon fiber nylon too, if you can.
And you could probably do well with carbon fiber PETG, it is amazingly stiff!
I startet printing polycarbonate and it works very nice! I use 110°C bed and 290°C nozzle and a polycarbonate sheet as print plate.
Fine job , thanks bro for sharing the details info 💕
I noticed a few times you had issues with the powder coating. You can specify that it should be to drawing dimensions after the coating is applied to avoid oversizing the part and keeping it to your tolerances in the drawing.
U can use 3MF file format instead of STL. It can store more info with smaller size.
I used to work at a company that made those kinds of planar polymer bearing/bushings and they are almost exclusively made to be pressfit into a tight fit bore. Maybe a design iteration would be to get a ground thin walled tube and pressfit the bushes into them. Also those kinds of contact surfaces should be hardened and ground to a fine surface finish. Obviously not super easy to do but better gearbox life
first thing i noticed. Those bushings are not designed for his use. The "oversized" measurement is as it should be to have a tight fit. Even the inner diameter is too lose as long as they are not pressed into a bore. You can see it at 12:01 with your bare eye, that the bushings have radial play on the shafts...
Thanks for the input. Yeah I realized that a bit late, and also they ware easily available.
Can you characterize the thermal differences with extended use?
Great video ❤️… i have a question, how did you make that animation of the object splitting in many piece at timesstamp 0:47
awesome build
Very nice project
Congrats from 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Amazing channel!! Great work!!
Thank you! Cheers!
Very cool project, always fun to assemble your own cnc'd parts!
Fantastic effort I love it! :)
Thank you! Cheers!
Does the model currently up have the clearance built in you were talking about?
You are mechatronics Gladiator 💪
Regarding modeling technique; is there a reason why not a 0 to 2pi/(number lobes) and a radial symmetry by number of lobes? is that to avoid surface modeling lines? coming from a Catia V5 modeling experience. gap with a spline just irks me and probably is creating some odd tribology down stream.
i am wondering of there is also a reduction in noise in between them
as always very very interesting! thanks for sharing
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very educational video!
"it's a precision drive" then "let's grind it with a dremel" JK lol. Great work man!
😁
does the 15% loss in output occurs as sound, vibration, and heating? if so, where in the mechanism is most of the loss occurring? to improve efficiency or at least to improve durability at speed under load, what kind of mitigation would be beneficial? Would cooling be necessary during prolonged use?
I have a sleeping problem and this video have helped ;)
Love watching it!
These cycloidal drive reduction drives are very interesting.
I wonder about their capacity work at increasing motor speed. Essentially driving the unit from the output shaft, to increase the drive of the input shaft.
An example would be a centrifugal supercharger where the input shaft might be driven to say 6000rpm, but the output might need to be 100,000rpm.
Could you do this with strain wave gear / harmonic drive?
How can you tell the parts were "exactly the same as in the "project"? I haven't seen micrometer in your hand to check it:)
Apologies if this has been answered already. How backdrivable is the cnc machined version? Thanks for this great work!
Greetings from the company that manufactures these gearboxes. 👋🏻
I work at Sumitomo Cyclo in Germany.
I made the original 3d printed version of this a while ago and it served me well but it was an utter pain in the ass to assemble.
super cool, i'd like to make one as well.
because it has low/zero backlash this type of mechanism probably can be used for star-trackers and guiders too.
How much did the CNC version order cost?
great topic, thanks 👍
Glad you liked it!
You never stop to amaze us 👍👍👍
Thanks!
Good collab! I'm curious about how much a quote for those parts would total. I understand quotes are temporary for good reasons, but a ballpark would be nice.
jlcpcb > pcbway
@@JoeTaber About $700 for 15 pieces with DHL courier service.
@@PCBWay well, I submitted a quote for a set of parts. Guess that answers that. Ooof.
Very nice design and presentation.
Thank you! Cheers!
What is the name of the device you used to measure at 0:29?
I wold really like to see a comparison with a planetary gear of the same reduction (probably needs to be 2-stage). At the same outside dimensions a planetary gear would be a beast.
Yeah, that would be an interesting comparison. I might make one. Cheers!
you could add 2 more disks thinner and lighter at a 90 degree angle to the others for a superior longer lasting one.
Its be interesting to see a mostly 3d printed housing, bearing cartridge etc but with a cnc input and output shaft and cyclodal disk. Try and reduce some of the mass of the cnc
Yeah, that's a good point. A combination of the two versions would be best solution for some DIY projects. The cycloidal disks are most important in this case I think and they can be made out of some metal material, in combination with some metal rollers.
Was it expensive to get those parts manufactured by PCBWay ?
Also, for these parts from PCBway, I'm curious, how much did this cost?
You are back!
Yeah, I guess I'm back with each new video. 😅
good job! A question, why do you need bushings around the cylinder, wouldn't the cycloidal gears just roll on the pins (assuming the right size)? Bushings shouldn't be moving should they?
The bushings should move, that's rolling and it would produce less friction than the cycloidal disk sliding on the pins directly. Also they can be replaced more easy if they out.
Помню этот редуктор ещё по советским альбомам редукторов, но только теперь понял как он работает.
How much is it to order parts from PCBWay?
"Nevertheless", this is a good video! :)
What is it that is skipping inside the gearbox once it reaches max torque?
What is the cost of all CNC parts?
the fact he didn't disclose it in the video says enough :-) (he's sponsored. if he was not, it would have been extremely costly :-) )
I paid around 60 usd to make a single shaft coupling approx 50*50*25mm with them. I have yet to receive it though, I hope it will fit otherwise it would money wasted.
At this part count, I would guess around $600 to $1000 US.
I'd say around 1500-2000usd (source: I'm a prototype machinist)
The undercut of the main housing and the two flats on the eccentric shaft adapter add complexity to it. If you wanted the gears to be high precision then I'd recommend using 4140 prehard (versus jig grinding, which would be more accurate but much more expensive), not stainless steel. That way you could also use better/harder bushings (drill bushings) which would increase performance significantly without increasing cost significantly. Fill it up with some sticky grease and boom!
Ya, custom CNC is expensive. Unless u have your own.
after seeing the failure of the threaded inserts at 18:17, I had to look at my own design and question whether the inserts would fail for a 13 Nm application on the output shaft, however in looking back I realized that you only had the torque distributed on two pins for that whole load rather than the whole 6 pins available. This leaves me more hopeful? I'll comment back on this whether I get significant plastic deformation for my version as well.
Can you get the same mechanical and electrical properties with 3D printed material?
Amazing video!
Thanks!
Hi Franco, I work for Sumitomo and we are the inventor of Cyclo drive System. If you are interested we can describe the advantage of this principle compared to other system. Thanks.
Can you make video on open pnp cnc?
I like how you say "distance ring", as opposed to "SPACER!!" @IvanMiranda
How To Mechatronics should be fined each time he missed an opportunity to say *SPACER.*
It was still a great video even though there wasn't enough SPACERs in it.
Are the distance ring in the CNC Machined Drive 3d printed ?
isnt this subjective to the 3d printer/print quality you use? also fdm/resin/sls (eg printer type)? plus your method of cnc machining?
I wish you would include cost for each version
I have a great application for those gearboxes. What about a motorized telescope mount? I'd love to have some ultra-low backlash, high-torque actuators to make one...
Maybe a flexure is better for small stuff
@@yelectric1893 a small...telescope?
@@chiraz111 Oh.. Youre right. I was assuming a little one with a 5" lens tops.
Excellent trials, any noise dB readings?
Yeah, I forgot to take noise dB readings.
Hi Awesome work, the Solidworks files does not exist?
You could try using drill bushings instead, they are pretty accurate if a bit expensive. Otherwise if PCBWay is sponsoring you might as well just order some custom lol, I've ordered hardened 440C bushings from them and they came out quite accurate too.
Thank for the input!
Is it legal to use your gearbox design for commercial purpose.
Thanks!
Thank you!
Wow thanks❤
Perhaps having the drives filled with some transmission fluid might help with the gear slipping/damage.
What's the name of the tool you use to measure the newton centimeters at 14:24?
I found it, and I provided a link, but it looks like CZcams deleted it. It's called a "Digital Force Gauge Push Pull Gauge Tester"
In case both CNC and 3D print are hybridized, what parts should be CNC machined? I think backrash and housing rigidity are important, so cycroid gears, bush housing, input shaft and output bush housing should be aluminum. Outercase, motormount, some sims, output basement can be printed. How about your opinion?
When you mix materials with very different thermal expansion coefficients, in a gear that is supposed to be quite precise and have low backlash, you are in for some adventure.
Is there an RPM limit on these types of drives...could you put high RPM (say 10-50K RPM) on them and get heavy reduction or would that cause problems?
problem. vibration and friction(wich is heat)
Интересная конструкция. Чем она лучше или хуже обычной планетарной передачи?
Wonderful!
Thank you! Cheers!
Super video, thank you !
Do you know somebody who sells all parts as a set ?
yours sincerly
Sven
Hola. Exelente proyecto. Quería saber si es posible realizar este mismo proyecto con la combinación de impresora 3d y cnc láser co2, máquinas de escritorio. Combinado con pla y mdf, madera o acrílico. La idea es hacer robótica a una escala más grande. Pero con materiales más económicos como el mdf y Pla. Para realizar una caja de engranajes de reducción de velocidad y ganar más fuerza con los motores. Muchas gracias por tu trabajo es una inspiración para todos.
I'm amazed the wood beam didn't slip of the scale and smash into your knuckles
haha I've never thought about it. I guess it's all about experience. 😀
AWESOME!
Thanks!
What about the lubricant ?
Doesn't need ?
Yeah installing bearings with a hammer might not initially show failure but the little dents caused in the raceways will wear the bearing out quickly
the measuring was a little bit weak compared to your overall effort
Love it
thanks
I know you did them both the same so you could test the material against eachother with the same dimensions but if someone wanted to make a strong 3d printed version, all you would have to do is make all the engagement points at least twice as thick.
That's right.
I need a sprocket or something that can work with a motor and bicycle axle. For my e-bike build. In Florida