Most Of My Damage Stat Analyses Have Been Affected By This - Rainbow Six Siege
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
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Back in 2017, when we were only just beginning to understand the damage mechanics in Rainbow Six Siege... I made a mistake. This one misinterpretation of my test results has drawn itself, like a thread, through most of my analytical Siege videos of the past 4 years. In this video, I own up to this mistake and I set the record straight. My apologies.
Updated damage stats: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
0:00 - Intro + What Went Wrong And Why
5:51 - The Corrected Rook Multiplier
6:57 - New Multiplier Matrix
7:24 - What Does All This Mean In Practice?
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Rogue 9 after realizing about the mistake: Years of academic training wasted!
WASTED!!!!!!
@@Rogue9 Hi there, didn't expect your reply.
Btw, I would suggest you not to do the new HP system tests as of now. They might change health pool values after taking TS feedback. So that might change the spreadsheet values again. Let the system be finalized and then try them out.
@@unXpectedM no, do it, I want to know the consequences if this change goes live
@@makavelithedon7127 While I understand your point, imagine the time and effort that Rogue 9 will have to go through to test something that may change soon, based on TS feedback. Guys been doing this for so long, let's let him have a break lol
@@unXpectedM He can do the theoretical health pretty easily I've done it here:
One assumption I make here btw is that 1 armours will keep the 0.75 damage modifier on limbs and 2/3 armours will mimic this 0.75 modifier.
The calculations I did were as follows;
100/0.9 = 2 armour actual body health (old) = 111.1 recurring,
100/0.8 3 armours actual body health (old) = 125 (exactly on the mark so no change here),
100/0.675 = 2 armours actual limb health (old) = 148.148148 recurring,
100/0.52 = 3 armours actual limb health (old) = 192.3 (roughly),
110/0.75 = 2 armour actual limb health (new) = 146.67,
125/0.75 = 3 armour actual limb health (new) = 166.67,
110 = 2 armour actual body health (new) = 110,
125 = 3 armour actual body health (new) = 125.
2 armour body theoretical difference = 110 - (111.1 recurring) = (-1.1 recurring) health
2 armour limb theoretical difference = 146.67 - (148.148148 recurring) = -1.478 health
3 armour body theoretical difference = 125 - 125 = 0 (health remains the same)
3 amour limb theoretical difference = 166.67 - 192.3 = -25.62 health
I will leave the Testing and rook stats to Rogue 9.
The fact that some people at ubi used your spreadsheets and never noticed is hilarious to me. Imagine if it actually impacted some nerf/buff decisions
That’s my main question: why did nobody at Ubisoft correct this mistake? Or did Rogue9 spend more time analysing the data than anyone at Ubi?
They rarely proactively reach out to correct misunderstandings in the community... and not just with me, I know of other instances, with other creators as well. Not sure why they don't do it; it's in their interest to keep the community informed and as long as they reach out to the creator with the info, I'm sure most would welcome the correction. At the end of the day, all we want is to understand the game.
@@Rogue9 My guess if individual employees notice they probably don't say anything to creators out of fear of accidentally revealing something they aren't supposed to. Thus it likely means no corrections are made unless they tell a supervisor, and the supervisor actually has to care enough to reach out through appropriate channels--an unlikely occurrence, though fixable should this be the issue. Just speculation though, I don't know the inner workings of Ubi so I'm likely wrong.
@@Rogue9 Ubisoft is lazy, I swear you put more dedication into this game then the developers themselves. Which is sad/impressive, kudos to you man
But you could have quietly pretended this misdiagnosis of the rook armor damage reduction never happened as now more armor will provide extra health. But good on you for clarifying!
Yeah, especially with the armour change coming to the game soon anyway, I could have just quietly ignored it and nobody would have ever known...
@@Rogue9 hey, that's exactly what ubi did with ACOG being a 3x instead of the listed 2.5x for like 5 years
@@rookie2128 Wait WATH. My whole life is a lie
@@rookie2128 Ubisoft did state that change in the *insert season name* patch notes when all the sights were added.
Respectable that you own up to your mistake! Would very much like to see a video on the armor change :D
the change next season is the same as it is now but their isn’t a damage reduction their is just increased health
@@demroles6996 yeah but the new values would be 110 and 125 if I remember right, so there would be changes for STK for some cases
@@imperiallegatus395 no there won‘t. Regarding TTK literally nothing changes. All they did was move the armor numbers that were invisible dmg reduction values to be visible as health.
So technically, 2 armors already have 110 HP and 3 armors have 125 HP
@@MisterK9739 there absolutely will be a difference because there is no multiplier that could end up producing a decimal point value and thus won't be rounded down. It's a set health value which bullets will do their full damage to.
@@demroles6996 .. which will cause some armor-gun combinations to have different ttks and stks..
Rogue 9 wrong??? That's like when a good guy in a movie turns out to become the bad guy
R9 😈
@@Rogue9 you are the r6 devil
Are we the baddies?
Of course we want you to make a detailed breakdown about what the upcoming armor changes mean!
it should not affected TTK, there is no damage reduction from armor anymore
@@mochachino56 The main change will be smoke, laser and fire damage. These hazards never affected armor but now where people have more health it sure is a buff for 2 abd 3 armors, the question is how much tough.
@@mochachino56 There are changes to shot to kill (STK), which inadvertently will affect TTK in some cases. I've calculated the changes in STK with the new Rook armor numbers here: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQh94DLt3K6Dzh9AFFCK5JsgKzmmZP3y30cIPzlCU4jZjcqbWJ6Hq6Alk0zdAPFA-vLlRaDMVmIQ4OL/pubhtml
WE NEED THE CHEAT SHEETS
Your ability to accept responsibility makes you so much better than other content creators who try pass the blame
Funny how others saw the mistakes but did not notice.
Funny how he made mistakes but admits them while Ubisoft still hasnt.
@@DUxMORTEM Really? you expect a Billion dollar worth company to apologize LMAO
@@sardaar_ ubisoft, in addition to the rogue 9 incident, have according to an article by newsoutlets have made kinmal changes since being exposed as a company with multiple sexual misconducts and workplace harrassments, meanwhile they parade around with flores being gay, thunderbird being native and the fsct they employ a transgender caster(who is amazing btw) for their esports division.
They work harder to cover up their bad image and make themselves look good over actually having a good image to put forward.
*Cough* *Cough* get_flanked *Cough*
Plot twist: The “mistake” was *mobility*
**When you Pepega so hard that the devs automatically Pepega too**
Me :but you said it was 0.8 that was the deal
Rouge 9: I'm altering the deal, prey i don't alter it any further
Good on you man, getting your mistake out there and putting it right! I also can't beleive that ubi devs use your stats and don't have their own!
They do have internal info but yeah, some of the balancing devs mentioned to me that they went to my stats instead 🤷♂️
@@Rogue9 🤣🤣
@@Rogue9 have they unblacklisted you? That would be awesome if they did!
@@kaznika6584 he probably meant in the past :/
You always manage to impress me with these fancy logistics
I really respect that despite the new armor change you stood up to clarify and took the effort to redo the testing, yes I would love to see a video about the armor changes.
MAN ...needs balls to say that 4 years of content can somehow be wrong ....HUGE RESPECTS ...and pls make that video when the patch with the health update comes in. I really wanna know if all you get from a rook plate as a 2 speed is just 10 hp
That was really unexpected. For a long time I also thought that Rook armour multiplier is 0.8. Thanks for clarification! What about the new hp system: the most interesting stat(at least for me) is how will hp instead of armour affect ttk for gadgets like smoke gas(and also how it will affect claymore)
Yep, that will be interesting to dig into!
Running into claymore with 3armor, rook plates and doc overheal. Hmmmm
Also some guns like the f2 or g8a1 will be buffed as they will now kill “two armours” with 3 shots rather than 4
i just cant believe we're both still playing after 6 years lets be honest.. i miss the old days, newer players dont understand how fun and infuriating year 1 and 2 was compared to now.
Yeah, the days of Y2 S1...
Hours wasted waiting for ranked match are long gone! lol!
Lmao back in the days where you could dodge queues if you saw people in the lobby where high rank/K/D
Respect! I wouldn't say embarrasing tbh. You did your best to find the right stats.
Ah yes, the entire masterpiece of the spreadsheet is now irrelevant
No. I've updated it of course! The actual sheet was corrected last season and now there is an additional sheet with the info on the difference!
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QF72f4Bm7PfbWeSWbl8R8uL0mOzXpG_1vOjqEjXcFGk/edit?usp=sharing
@@Rogue9 amazing
@@Rogue9 you know what ? You still the best at it mistakes or no mistakes literally no one else can do it better.. It's just unfortunate what happened between you and Ubi hope things get back to normal.
@@sharpshooter_00i79 it's amazing how much work he put in, even after knowing the damage reduction is going away soon
@@Rogue9 What. A. Chad.
My man discovered a fatal flaw of his entire career and cleared it up right before a new update is here to make said flaw cease to exist
i dont even play R6 for about a year and half but i still enjoy watching you videos. I would be so happy to see the deep dive in the new sys. on test server. Much love
Admitting your own mistakes is a very respectable trait, especially regarding academia, which I would consider game design to be a part of. Hats off to you for this humble clarification, and I would be very interested in an analysis of Rook after his change, both because he's one of my favorite operators to play and I want to know how it will affect me, and for the name of science and general mechanic clarification for the community as always. Thank you for what you do dude!
Dude, you still have made the best technical Siege content ever. BY FAR. Your videos are great, very useful, and we love you. Thanks. PS please do that breakdown
Thank for the update keep up the good work :)
Yeah, I'd love to have that full video on the new damage system. Always good to know what's changing in detail
It must be very satisfying to both have made that huge spreadsheet and to have pretty much everone use it even the devs
*Rogue you've become the very thing you swore to destroy!*
Thanks for the update Rogue-9! I would love to see the ramifications of the tts armor/hp system compared to the current system of damage modifiers! I hope you’re doing great!
Extra kudos to you for including night maps in the vid.
I really do love this number crunching and would love to see a new spread sheet using the new HP values
Looking forward to see what you think about the reworked muzzle attachments.
it happens, thanks for correcting the issue R9, great content and info.
Definitely my favourite Siege content maker, so I'd love to see the video about new armor changes!
Thx for the video! Waiting forward for your review of the new system
Coming soon! I'm working on it right now, despite that it's not going live until some point in future
Could you do a video on the updated muzzle brakes? Whilst Ubisoft told us what the new muzzles do now, is it possible if you could find out all the percentages and math?
yes please make a video on the hp/armor changes and how it will relate to finka/doc heals, etc.
Thank you for being a real one and making this video
Mad respect for not hiding, but correcting your mistake
Hey R9! Will you do be doing a video about the new North Star attachments rework?
Yes!
@@Rogue9 *happiness noises*
@@Rogue9 Awesome! Thanks for all your work.
Bro, no one is going to be mad at you, you are the only person that makes all this testing
9:21 bro of course we want to know. This is exactly the kind of nerdy stuff I’m expecting from your Chanel.
Definitely want to see that new armor system breakdown!
I'd really like for you to look into the new armor system!
Most of up probably don't care too much about the info but it's still really interesting to see the info in a spreadsheet.
What'll become with limbs multiplier if hp replaces armor??
Imagine no one at ubi messaging him all this time
Can you do a updated Video about the new function of the Attachments
Id love to see a video detailing the nuances of the armor to health change
step 1. find error
step 2. announce to the community you found error
step 3. fix it
This is why you're the GOAT. Best science practices.
Yes, I would love for you to dive into this
in 1:36 i saw the reference to the 416-C in the legs multiplier for Fuze, nice R9!
never been so early to a rogue-9 video, very cool!
you almost made me teary with that rook acog clip
Yes please can you test the new room armor on the test server! Love your vids
This guy doesn't get praised enough for the time and effort he puts into his videos
Does this effect suppressor bullets to kill? Probably not much only in a few cases
Don't worry m8. What's important is that you acknowledged your error and you even clarified it in this video. Your still the best. Keep up the good work!
ubisoft is a mistake. Seriously how does this game still not have any useful stats anywhere
I’ve been wondering since they announced the health system how doc would be affected and I haven’t seen anyone mention it
Two things.
Im almost cry myself when realize how many hours you was put only in armor damage reduction tests. Respect.
And obviously. Awesome beard, mate
honestly great job at figuring this out, I mean I wouldn't look into something that ubisoft acknowledges as well.
I’d love to see a dive into the test server health/armor changes
Yes! Pls do the videos about updated rook plates!
A video on the armor change would be awesome!
Love the Futurama reference XD
I bet this is due to the float to integer conversion behavior in C and C++. Floats are always truncated (rounded down) when they are converted to integer types. However, professional software engineers at Ubi definitely should know that, and have been able to tell you that but oh well. Glad you found this!
Rogue 9 thanks for clarifying your miscalculations. I am still gonna watch your videos. You are like the Desk of siege. He is a well knowing combo enthusiat in the fgc. Hope all is well!
It definitely will help community to test new changes before it's going live, but only after that would be confirmed, of course
I might be a bit behind, being the first time seeing the health vs armour change, but I gotta say that 25 health is not a good substitute for the speed loss. Do the health increase and damage reduction run simultaneously?
Beard looking fantastic sir
Will you be making videos about the new buffs and nerfs to Ash, vigil, the smg12 and bering 9 recoil
Lots of stuff to look at with the new season. I'll definitely be covering more soon!
Props for owning up. Thanks for correcting
I miss clubhouse night map 😭
Why can't they just bring night maps back for casual
@@rileywebb4178
The new reworked Favela is a Night map but that’s it. At least it’s a start
Even the ubisoft devs didn't know for sure the real damage multiplier of the rook armor, how?
this is why you are the best, you clarify why and how you where wrong and most of all. you admit you are wrong!
Can you do one on thunderbird vs doc?
I would adore a full look at the armor changes once it goes live.
I'd still enjoy one with the current TS build, but I expect it to change a fair bit
Love you Rogue! Would be sick if you made a New updated Health armor change video
I would like to see the armour change, I actually figured it out myself for normal armours however I used rogue 9's model of rook plate resistance so that's wrong, if you wish to know; 2 armours have 1 less damage point they can suck up (theoretically, this is all according to official stats, not tried and tested) and 2 less damage points when being shot in the limbs 3 armours can absorb 30 points of damage less when being shot in the limbs on the new health system however exactly the same amount of body shot health.
One assumption I make here btw is that 1 armours will keep the 0.75 damage modifier on limbs and 2/3 armours will mimic this 0.75 modifier.
The calculations I did were as follows;
100/0.9 = 2 armour actual body health (old) = 111.1 recurring,
100/0.8 = 3 armours actual body health (old) = 125 (exactly on the mark so no change here),
100/0.675 = 2 armours actual limb health (old) = 148.148148 recurring,
100/0.52 = 3 armours actual limb health (old) = 192.3 (roughly),
110/0.75 = 2 armour actual limb health (new) = 146.67,
125/0.75 = 3 armour actual limb health (new) = 166.67,
110 = 2 armour actual body health (new) = 110,
125 = 3 armour actual body health (new) = 125.
2 armour body theoretical difference = 110 - (111.1 recurring) = (-1.1 recurring) health
2 armour limb theoretical difference = 146.67 - (148.148148 recurring) = -1.478 health
3 armour body theoretical difference = 125 - 125 = 0 (health remains the same)
3 amour limb theoretical difference = 166.67 - 192.3 = -25.62 health
I will leave the Testing and rook stats to Rogue 9.
Do the armor to hp changes video please. All I want to know is how AOE damages like toxic smoke and fire would tick on armor if they are hp instead.
Would absolutely love to see a video on the new simplified health system.
Hell yeah need to do it up
Could have easily just been a tweet but this man makes a whole ass video saying he goofed. Full respect.
I want to know what armor changes mean in practice
Takes a real one to own it and step forward. Respect man ✊
FINALLY
Been waiting for this since the Kali nerf came out and the Ubi team told us how Rook Armor worked.
Another reason why I like you as a person and youtuber. When there's a mistake you find out why it's a mistake correct it and show everything part of why I still watch your content despite not playing siege anymore after the nonsense they have done both in pr and game balance as well as not playing any ubisoft games now days.
Ur doing this wrong. Ur suppose to hide this and double down if someone figures out that you are wrong. How will you have angry twitter and reddit fights now :/
You're right!
Everyone listen up! - Correction: This was a bug after all and I never make any mistakes!!!
@@Rogue9 angry reddit post lets goooooooooooo
rogue 9 what do you think of this whole armor to hp, do you think it any good?
It certainly makes things clearer... but it will also have a lot of side effects and will change shots to kill, healer utility, fire/smoke damage... lots to explore
Bruh. So many numbers. This must've been a re-testing nightmare
I've been thinking about how the change from Armor to HP-levels would be a nerf to heals like docs stim and now thunderbirds kona station because they now "only" heal the set HP value and since there are no damage modifiers anymore this means that a stim on a 2- or 3-Armor is now effectively less health healed right? Also would love to see a new doc vs rook (vs thunderbird?) now that these dynamics have changed. Keep up the great work Rogue
yeah a video about the buffs or nerfs removing armour sounds good
Yes please do make a video about it would ne very helpful understand the differences
Oh yeah the bossman is back at it again
Back at it like a crack addict, Mr. Black Magic, crack a bitch back
Chiropractic Craftmatic, big daddy smokin' big Cali...
@@Rogue9 an rtj fan? Very cultured
@@Rogue9 reading that in your voice might be the funniest thing I've seen
Good Job for that correction!
I really would like to know about new armor system. Cuz it will definitely nerf rook plates and 3-armors, I doubt they will change doc stimpistol for that reason
Please test and review the new hp model.
Initially looking at the change makes me think that TTK will change in a major way, with my thinking it being an even faster TTK for most ops and situations, but a proper indepth dive is always a better way than just kinda vague remembering heh.
Can’t wait for the next video
I would like to see a video on the armor and HP changes
Reliable sources admit when they are wrong. Respect for admitting your mistake and for providing so much to the community!