Except for that final example with the percussion on the sides they will be canceled in mono and the center bleed will be filtered making them radically different in tone, only the guitar will sound good.
seriously. you took a a physics problem that i've been listening to people TRY to explain to me for two years, and made it clear as a bell in 10 seconds. thank you :-) i say physics because on the surface, what MS acheives is NOT what one would think possible from the setup, but the simple equation of (L-R)+(L+R)=L and (R-L)+(L+R)=R was something nobody ever provided me, lol.
Very nice explanation It's the way radio stereo works. On one channel we send A+B on the other A-B. When field is small we received only mono A+B, when it is high we have A on left and B on right
Thank you! I waded through half a dozen descriptions of mid-side without understanding why it works. This explanation was quick, perfectly clear, beautifully produced and included the math that was necessary for the aha moment.
Out of all the videos I've seen and articles I've read, I finally understand, thanks to this succinct explanation. The addition/cancelling section gave me what I needed. Thank you very much for this!
Holyyy shit, I finally understand how the mid-side technique can give you stereo sound in post processing while the mid mic picks up both left and right and puts it all in one track.
I appreciate all the science behind this but mid-side is a fairly simple mic technique. You need 1 center facing mic + 1 figure 8 mic @90degrees to the source; Duplicate the figure 8 mic in the daw and and hard pan each - 1 left - 1 right; Reverse the polarity of only 1 of these duplicates. Voila. I think the real thing I learned here was the ability make the stereo image narrower or wider through the mix which I hadn't considered. Also using mid side for electric when balancing a room vs amp sound- those are clever uses of the technique!
Thank you so much for your video , very good . Please , could you tell me which Are the best mic for recording grand piano ? I have Rode NT 2000 , Apogee 76 elements , mic - pre Neve Amek 9098 system. I have Yamaha C5 grand Piano . Thank you in advance
Absolutely! Bruce Swieden recorded some of Michael Jackson's vocals in stereo, maybe not using MS, but it can make a lead vocal sound slightly less pinpoint than standard mono recording. And of course with MS if you decide you don't like the stereo lead vocal you can just dump the side and stick with the mid. Any instrument can benefit from MS simply because you can dial in your desired amount of ambience. Distorted guitar, bass amp, certainly any acoustic instrument. I use MS almost exclusively for classical recording where the ensemble is maybe 1 to 5 people, so not too wide on stage. For a wide ensemble like a choir or orchestra you need something wider than MS, or spaced mics in addition to MS. By all means give it a shot! Michael Schulze
Because that's the way the microphone is constructed to allow recording e.g. with this method. Don't think it's pointed to the left, it's pointed at the sides. The only difference is the polarity of the signal - one side is positive, the other is negative.
Yes, you are recording 2 mono signals, then matrixing a stereo image by duplicating the side mic, flipping its polarity, and panning opposite from the unaltered side mic. By the way this was invented by Alan Blumlein, who also invented radar!
I just downloaded REC app and I'm using it for recording a podcast, and I'm adjusting the settings, and one setting is MS. What setting do I adjust it to?
I don't get the use of the figure of 8? is there a way to do it with a matched pair of cardioids bounced to mono. Or indeed just duplicate any mic track different to the mid?
Thanks! How do you deal the phasing issue between the mid mic and the inverted side track? If the two original tracks were in phase then the mid and inverted track would be out of phase. Thanks
Thanks for the video. I am new to this but still don't really understand. There is only one signal coming from a dual condenser or ribbon mike. So are you saying that there is some kind of encoding on the signal that provides 2 streams of analogue from the figure of 8 mic ? I set up a NT2A as the "sides" and an NT1A as the mid. In the DAW these recorded to 2 channels. I then duplicated the NT2A channel and flipped the polarity of one of them, panning one 100% left and the other 100% right. I had recorded close up sounds on the left and right hand sides and expected to hear the stereo separation. However I did not get stereo. What have I missed ?
You are PRECISELY right. This just gives you a "stereo-ish" feeling. But, since your fig-8 mic is really a mono line, it's not gonna give you a true stereo image. The proof is at 7:00 - right? You should hear the shaker on one side and the cabasa on the other. Look where they're standing! But you don't. Psychologically, you *feel* that it's a stereo image, but close your eyes and don't look at the guys. Now switch ears with your headphones or buds. Nope. It's a very centered image, with no real separation between the three instruments. It feels great, because you're getting all the ambience that's bouncing off the walls, and a strong image from those percussion instruments.... but since it's all coming down one line [albeit polarity-shifted] it reads as very centered.
NOOOO!!!!! I take it all back. It *DOES* give a moderate stereo image, with a little bit of left presence on the right side and vice versa. Mann!!! I tested it myself, walking back and forth and back pretty close to the mics, then again a few feet away. The moderation of these percussionists is because they're further away. But there *ISSSSS* true stereo!!! I think it's because of math. It's a little less 'natural' at this distance than a stereo pair would be, but there are distinct advantages! Crazy!!!! The polarity of the diaphragm creates a subtle directionality. You can hear it. Check it out: barrybrake.com/mid-side-strolling.mp3 1. just the center mic 2. just the side mic, polarity-rev'd and panned 3. both: the full mid-side
No that would not work. In your scenario Just use one mic up close and two mics in a stereo X/Y farther back of the room sound. Part of the appeal of M/S is its perfect stereo phase coherence. It sounds like you want to simply blend in good old room depth with an up-close source. Also cool, but different.
One more thing, I would also say, try it. It may not be true M/S, but it could yield something cool on its own and is a great way to learn what and why things do and do not work.
So when you flip the polarity of the side channel in your mixer it creates stero effect after panning them hard left and right but if the same audio is played on a mono device like mobile phone the side channel will get eliminated ,,doesent that effect the overall sound balance??
No, the whole point of this technique is to avoid that unfortunate occurrence. Flipping the polarity of one of the side tracks ensures that, if the song ever gets collapsed to mono (ugh), you will lose the ambient information captured by the side mic altogether, but the center signal captured by the “mid” mic remains, and there should be no loss in terms of tonal quality of the instrument that was recorded using mid/side technique
Mono center information is valuable for mono compatible playback as well as devices which take advantage of mono center like 5.1 Surround. It will base the front speaker from mono center and the rears will be derivatives of the stereo information. Equally as important it will prevent the hollow results of extreme LR panning, with no center the width is at maximum. Blending some or all of the center channel fills out the middle, feels like mono plus stereo, which it is. As he mentions, you need figure 8, or multiple mics. It can also be done with an assortment of sources, such as IR’s. Just setting up a 3 channel matrix will achieve the desired LCR effect. Left Center Right. The more variables, the better you can tweak your desired mix result so you can explode in width for big parts and shrink the middle for stereo features, for example.
You are actually correct if you remove the center channel and play the side channels only, and sum them to mono, they will, in fact, cancel out. This is one of the advantages of MS recording is that when done properly with the center channel in, Mid-side recordings will sum perfectly to mono.
the real jam is here, and stupid people are crazy about the andrue hounge, wow. let me check your channel if it has much important information like this.
I could not wrap my head around how this worked until this video. Thank you so much!
Oh. My. God. How great is this explanation?!!! Merci!
abs(cos(x)) + 1 + sen(x)
Pro trick : watch series on Flixzone. I've been using them for watching loads of movies these days.
@Kaysen Albert Yea, I have been watching on Flixzone for months myself :D
Probably the best video on the entire internet about this recording technique, from A to Z. Congratulations!
Thank you so much for taking the time to make this. It's a masterclass!
Very nice video. Great illustration.
This is a great explanation! One additional bonus not mentioned is: if you "mono-ize" the finished stereo track, it sounds perfect in mono.
Except for that final example with the percussion on the sides they will be canceled in mono and the center bleed will be filtered making them radically different in tone, only the guitar will sound good.
seriously. you took a a physics problem that i've been listening to people TRY to explain to me for two years, and made it clear as a bell in 10 seconds. thank you :-)
i say physics because on the surface, what MS acheives is NOT what one would think possible from the setup, but the simple equation of (L-R)+(L+R)=L and (R-L)+(L+R)=R was something nobody ever provided me, lol.
Very nice explanation
It's the way radio stereo works. On one channel we send A+B on the other A-B. When field is small we received only mono A+B,
when it is high we have A on left and B on right
Thank you! I waded through half a dozen descriptions of mid-side without understanding why it works. This explanation was quick, perfectly clear, beautifully produced and included the math that was necessary for the aha moment.
INCREDIBLE!!! GREAT EXPLANATION.
Single best explanation of Mid-Side Recording on CZcams!! Thanks!!
Out of all the videos I've seen and articles I've read, I finally understand, thanks to this succinct explanation. The addition/cancelling section gave me what I needed. Thank you very much for this!
this is easily the best video on the topic. this is my second time coming back to it to brush up.
Best explanation of MS recording I've come across. It actually makes sense now.
This is the best lesson and demo on mid side recording probably ever
this is the best in detail explanation on the internet. thank you so much! спасибо!
This video was so outstanding that it got you a new subscriber.
Tjat's how things should be explained.
Holyyy shit, I finally understand how the mid-side technique can give you stereo sound in post processing while the mid mic picks up both left and right and puts it all in one track.
What a brilliant, clear and well produced presentation. Very professional.Thank you
Love the m/s technique! Sounds good on both speakers and headphones.
Fantastic video
Exactly what i was curious about, an explanation for that polarity inversion of the side recording. Thanks!
Beste Erklärung die ich bisher gesehen habe, vielen Dank!
Man. Loved it. Thank you a lot.
💥Excellent explanation!!!💥 👌👍👍👍
Love this technique, a great video!
Amazingly ♥️♥️♥️
Love u 😘😘😘😘 for this clarification of stereo recording.
excellent demonstrations!
Very good explanations ! Thanks a lot.
Great explanation ... thank you very much
Finally , this makes sense. Great explanation
This is brilliant. Thank you!
Simple and clear ! Thanks a looooot !!
Thank you so much man !!! this is great !
best explanation on youtube by far, thanks!!
This was such a great explanation thank you!!
Oooh, when you put up the math on that my brain exploded.
Thanks a lot for making this easier to understand/Explain!
Finally I understood how this works
My goodness this is perfect
Thanks so much!
very detailed video but in a very simple and easy to understand words. thank you :)
I appreciate all the science behind this but mid-side is a fairly simple mic technique. You need 1 center facing mic + 1 figure 8 mic @90degrees to the source; Duplicate the figure 8 mic in the daw and and hard pan each - 1 left - 1 right; Reverse the polarity of only 1 of these duplicates. Voila.
I think the real thing I learned here was the ability make the stereo image narrower or wider through the mix which I hadn't considered. Also using mid side for electric when balancing a room vs amp sound- those are clever uses of the technique!
great tutorial keep it up
very well explained, great. Thx 🥇
Very nice, thank you !!!
Very helpful, thanks a lot
GREAT EXAMPLES THANK U
Thanks... U explained easily :)
Thank you so much for your video , very good . Please , could you tell me which Are the best mic for recording grand piano ? I have Rode NT 2000 , Apogee 76 elements , mic - pre Neve Amek 9098 system. I have Yamaha C5 grand Piano . Thank you in advance
great explanation! would you say this technique can be used on anything? (vocals, guitar, violin, etc. etc.)
Absolutely! Bruce Swieden recorded some of Michael Jackson's vocals in stereo, maybe not using MS, but it can make a lead vocal sound slightly less pinpoint than standard mono recording. And of course with MS if you decide you don't like the stereo lead vocal you can just dump the side and stick with the mid. Any instrument can benefit from MS simply because you can dial in your desired amount of ambience. Distorted guitar, bass amp, certainly any acoustic instrument. I use MS almost exclusively for classical recording where the ensemble is maybe 1 to 5 people, so not too wide on stage. For a wide ensemble like a choir or orchestra you need something wider than MS, or spaced mics in addition to MS. By all means give it a shot! Michael Schulze
Why does the figure 8 mic pointed to the left also pick up reversed polarity Sound from the right? Thanks!
Because that's the way the microphone is constructed to allow recording e.g. with this method. Don't think it's pointed to the left, it's pointed at the sides. The only difference is the polarity of the signal - one side is positive, the other is negative.
also - to clarify - the channels on which the cardioid and figure-of-8 mics are recorded are mono themselves, right?
Yes, you are recording 2 mono signals, then matrixing a stereo image by duplicating the side mic, flipping its polarity, and panning opposite from the unaltered side mic. By the way this was invented by Alan Blumlein, who also invented radar!
I just downloaded REC app and I'm using it for recording a podcast, and I'm adjusting the settings, and one setting is MS. What setting do I
adjust it to?
What microphone bar are you using in the video? Been looking for something like that to make setup easier.
I don't get the use of the figure of 8? is there a way to do it with a matched pair of cardioids bounced to mono. Or indeed just duplicate any mic track different to the mid?
Thanks! How do you deal the phasing issue between the mid mic and the inverted side track? If the two original tracks were in phase then the mid and inverted track would be out of phase. Thanks
May I ask what is the different from recording with stereo mic?
Thanks for the video. I am new to this but still don't really understand. There is only one signal coming from a dual condenser or ribbon mike. So are you saying that there is some kind of encoding on the signal that provides 2 streams of analogue from the figure of 8 mic ? I set up a NT2A as the "sides" and an NT1A as the mid. In the DAW these recorded to 2 channels. I then duplicated the NT2A channel and flipped the polarity of one of them, panning one 100% left and the other 100% right. I had recorded close up sounds on the left and right hand sides and expected to hear the stereo separation. However I did not get stereo. What have I missed ?
you might change the way how two NT2A track are pan
You are PRECISELY right. This just gives you a "stereo-ish" feeling. But, since your fig-8 mic is really a mono line, it's not gonna give you a true stereo image.
The proof is at 7:00 - right? You should hear the shaker on one side and the cabasa on the other. Look where they're standing! But you don't.
Psychologically, you *feel* that it's a stereo image, but close your eyes and don't look at the guys. Now switch ears with your headphones or buds. Nope. It's a very centered image, with no real separation between the three instruments.
It feels great, because you're getting all the ambience that's bouncing off the walls, and a strong image from those percussion instruments.... but since it's all coming down one line [albeit polarity-shifted] it reads as very centered.
NOOOO!!!!! I take it all back. It *DOES* give a moderate stereo image, with a little bit of left presence on the right side and vice versa. Mann!!! I tested it myself, walking back and forth and back pretty close to the mics, then again a few feet away.
The moderation of these percussionists is because they're further away. But there *ISSSSS* true stereo!!! I think it's because of math.
It's a little less 'natural' at this distance than a stereo pair would be, but there are distinct advantages! Crazy!!!! The polarity of the diaphragm creates a subtle directionality. You can hear it.
Check it out:
barrybrake.com/mid-side-strolling.mp3
1. just the center mic
2. just the side mic, polarity-rev'd and panned
3. both: the full mid-side
@@barrybrake7049 Thank you barry brake. Your experiment helped debunk a naysayer I found on another channel. Excellent!
@@ToddBeal Glad to finally be useful!
Just wondering, can you place the side mic further back in the room so the mono mic captures the close sound and the side mic captures the room sound?
No that would not work. In your scenario Just use one mic up close and two mics in a stereo X/Y farther back of the room sound. Part of the appeal of M/S is its perfect stereo phase coherence. It sounds like you want to simply blend in good old room depth with an up-close source. Also cool, but different.
One more thing, I would also say, try it. It may not be true M/S, but it could yield something cool on its own and is a great way to learn what and why things do and do not work.
So when you flip the polarity of the side channel in your mixer it creates stero effect after panning them hard left and right but if the same audio is played on a mono device like mobile phone the side channel will get eliminated ,,doesent that effect the overall sound balance??
No, the whole point of this technique is to avoid that unfortunate occurrence. Flipping the polarity of one of the side tracks ensures that, if the song ever gets collapsed to mono (ugh), you will lose the ambient information captured by the side mic altogether, but the center signal captured by the “mid” mic remains, and there should be no loss in terms of tonal quality of the instrument that was recorded using mid/side technique
why did you reverse the polarity of the copy of the side mic ?
This is a great explanation, but why do I need the MID?
Mono center information is valuable for mono compatible playback as well as devices which take advantage of mono center like 5.1 Surround. It will base the front speaker from mono center and the rears will be derivatives of the stereo information. Equally as important it will prevent the hollow results of extreme LR panning, with no center the width is at maximum. Blending some or all of the center channel fills out the middle, feels like mono plus stereo, which it is. As he mentions, you need figure 8, or multiple mics. It can also be done with an assortment of sources, such as IR’s. Just setting up a 3 channel matrix will achieve the desired LCR effect. Left Center Right. The more variables, the better you can tweak your desired mix result so you can explode in width for big parts and shrink the middle for stereo features, for example.
@@Eventual420 Wow! That's helpful. Thank you for your answer!
Why doesn't the reversed phase copy cancel out the original side recording?
You are actually correct if you remove the center channel and play the side channels only, and sum them to mono, they will, in fact, cancel out. This is one of the advantages of MS recording is that when done properly with the center channel in, Mid-side recordings will sum perfectly to mono.
the real jam is here, and stupid people are crazy about the andrue hounge, wow. let me check your channel if it has much important information like this.