Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
“Burnt out” family doctor closing practice
Vložit
- čas přidán 13. 02. 2024
- In the midst of a critical family doctor shortage about a thousand Mississauga patients are scrambling to find a new physician. Their doctor can’t take it anymore, she says she spends more time on “unsustainable” admin than on seeing her patients.
She's already a saint for working for 60K/year for 29 years.
That’s a lot.
Not to mention she's working over 40hrs per week. For 120-150K pay GPs work about 60hrs per week. A union gig'er with that amount of OT can make more.
In Alberta they get paid 250K to 300K..What kind of places pay them 120 to 150 K? @@webrbio3153
@@LP-bt4jkyou need to use your brain, that is a lot of money yes but not for a doctor
@@sparklingwater1430 In other countries Doctors make less…. She makes more, but with all her other expenses it comes down to her making 60k….
She isn’t greedy, she did it for her patients and people like her are rare.
I wish her the best and hope she enjoys her retirement.
I’m in health care . I’ll tell you right now. If a health care professional is willing to say this on tv then the situation is worse than people know
This is what scares me too! This is happening in Canada and I just know that this will start increasing in the states as well. You would think a family doctor would get a significantly higher pay than a personal doc or pediatrician, but that’s not the case. What happened to America? We used to be the land of dreams and now we’re slowly into the land of nightmares and unnecessary stress
This. Thank. You.
I know one family doctor that went bankrupt. Running a doctor clinic is expensive.
People are more sick since the rollout of the vaccine and doctors can’t keep up. Sooo sad
@@betterfad3d "this will start increasing in the states" Bet it’s already much worse here in the US.
Only 60K a year for a doctor? That's ridiculous. Someone who goes through all the work of medical school to become a doctor deserves much more than that. Even if they aren't in some big specialty.
🤔 thats take home pay after all deduction
Thats like 5k/monthly
I still feel bad for her, that she doesn’t have admin staff who could take care of other things while she is taking care of the patients.
I am lawyer and I get $35,000 per year while working 9 hours a day and yet no one mentions about it
@@randallk6812 Dude it's 60K net not gross.
Healthcare workers and teachers in North America are considered worthless commodities ...didn't COVID already proved that ?
$60k is insanity for MD.
going to school for 10 yrs, working 29 yrs and making 60k? that's messed up
The Canadian healthcare system greatly underpays
@@pinkshellyoverhead is extremely high, imagine each nurse costs you 100k
Thats BS. The only way that would happen is if she was seeing very few patients. Which is on her.
@@pinkshelly I imagine that posting was probably in a really tiny, potentially geographically isolated community where they're having tons of problems recruiting people to work there. Sometimes rural communities will hire a family physician for unusually high pay...often that comes at a price of agreeing to be on call 24/7 for the community, ie: waking up at 3am any day of the year if someone has a medical emergency.
Family doctors in Canada generally pay out of pocket to rent their clinic space, pay for their MOA/front desk clerk/receptionist's salary and benefits, their own medical benefits plan, don't get paid vacation or sick days, etc.
In most provinces, they also don't get paid for time spent on paperwork, only for the time they're in the room with the patient...so that 25 hours a week she spends on paperwork may also be unpaid.
@@briankroger7879With all due respect you don’t know what you’re talking about. She only sees “very few patients” because she has to do close to 25 hrs of UNPAID paperwork. Which means she only has another 25 hrs (3 days) of patient visit time. Yes, that’s a total of 50 hours😢 worked time. Go back and rewatch the video for this comment to make sense 🤦🏾♂️
I think the government sees the family doctor as nothing more than a medical secretary.
Now the govt. will be having more problems with healthcare.
It's not just the Canadian government. HMOs in the US treat doctors the same way.
Doctors, like teachers are vital yet they're taken for granted.
government serves itself
Most doctors work for corporations. It's not the government who determines their treatment as government intervention in the USA is currently viewed as communism and therefore not a reality.
Bec they r
Dr. Mang has been my doctor over 20 years…..I will find it very hard, IF even possible to find a doctor compatible with the care and heart she puts into every visit…Our family is 3 generation with Dr. Mang and to come to this…..I know there is better coming for her and well deserved, but how sad our government to have even allowed this to happen…
Cynthia, Sorry to hear your situation. I want to give you some advice. Buy XDC crypto. Only a few cents now. XDC will be worth thousands one day and tell Dr. Mang this too. I want you all to have an opportunity to make generational wealth 😎👍
Anyone who works in health care also knows A LOT of patients are too demanding as well. A lot patients are quite rude and are disrespectful of their health professionals!
It is tough. I would say I have felt burnout much the same way as these doctors. I once had a patient that filed an official complain against me for referring him to a dentist for an assessment. It was over the phone too, and he demanded service right away. People need to realize we cannot be in 2 places at once. There are shifts where phone calls are overwhelming. Furthermore, dental pain can be something a lot more urgent requiring surgery and should be seen by a more specialized profession. I was yelled at for over 10 minutes with utmost disrespect. Modern medicine is different now. It's becoming more like fast food, where you have to give people what they want with bare minimum assessment (ie. over the phone).
@@amextraveler I work in public health in the US, and I see all these people preach about free access healthcare that's to their standards (immediate no matter how non life threatening it is) and I wonder if they really understand what patient loads are like in public health.
@@GuacamoleyNacho just keep yourself healthy!! and you won't need so many doctor visits.
@@GuacamoleyNacho If you work in health care, you'll know how difficult it is with some people. I can simply not offer phone calls and have the receptionist get yelled at. Then when I speak with people and ask them to come in or get a proper assessment from another health care provider, I'll get yelled at. Health care is turning into fast food at this point
In the US, there are reasons for this. People are tired of not getting the care they need. One personal example: I have a lower back injury. Tried for 7 years and at least 10 doctors to get a simple referral for an MRI on my back. They all refused, putting me through every possible treatment imaginable: PT, medications, acupuncture -- one even referred me to CZcams for yoga videos (totally worthless). Injury kept recurring.
Finally, doctor #10 ordered the study and, guess what? They discovered a slipping disc that needs surgery. They could've found this out on day 1, but chose to ignore my request. It's not like a 20 minute MRI is going to break the healthcare system. What will break the healthcare system? If more people like me go through 5 ER visits, 15-20 doctor visits, for something that could've been discovered and fixed with 1-2 visits.
I am an MD in the United States. As part of maintaining my credentials, I have to read articles and take tests on the articles. I had to read a 20 page article about the electronic health record, and how awesome it is. The whole point of the article is that Dr. burn out because of these horrendous computer systems we have to work with is a doctor problem. Not a computer problem. I was so angry having to spend time being told what a terrible doctor I am, because clicking, clicking, clicking on a computer distracting me from actually talking to my patient and working with my patient isn’t an actual problem. Ponderous, expensive! Distracting, and if everyone was being honest, it’s a billing system with patient care as a side line.
I think electronic admin has pushed our local system over the edge (I live on Vancouver Island) - they forced through a new computer system - all the time and resources have gone into that ever since, it (computer system) became the focus, not patient care or the needs of doctors and other human care providers
I'm a family/ urgent care practitioner in California. She is absolutely correct. We spend more time on state generated paperwork than we do on patient care. Each HMo has its own guidelines, the state has their own, the feds have theirs.... it goes on and on... all for 30 to 40 dllrs a patient. Do the math, it's un sustainable.
CA loves paper work and billing
But you vote democratic each time i bet
@@noName-kn1lxAs if voting republicans would be any different. Lots of medical stuff and treatment get denied by insurance companies owned by people who aren’t even doctors and guess what these folks are part of? Republicans have them in their pockets.
nurses are also expected to complete a lot of paper by the state or their organization(s); resulting in little time they have to care for their patients as well.
I'm a physician resident (went to medical school, graduated, passed all three Step exams needed for a license) working 80hr weeks. I get to see my family one day out of 7. Patients yell at me most days, then consultants yell at me for consulting them. When I am board certified, I'm working part time and living in the woods with my family the other half due to burn out/abuse rampant in training from which I will need years to recover. For physicians in primary care/medicine not doing surgery/radiology/anesthesia, who all say good bye to the patient at some point and then hand-off that patient to primary care/medicine, it's not worth the abuse and prior-authorization/paperwork/see a patient every 10 minutes, marathon with pits of alligators that insurance companies and private equity companies expect us to tolerate.
@Releasethezazen
I totally agree with you and I'm just an ordinary patient saying this. It's definitely not worth it for you as a Physician Resident, medical doctor etc working under a pure Canadian public health care system forced to see patients every 10 minutes. Many of the patients sadly are very entitled and rude.
I yelled at a family doctor the other day. I went there for a mental health referral and she pried my complicated medical history out of me, suggested a vaginal swab. I have endometritis from a botched C section and zero follow up care from the doctor who did it (Dr. Mei-Dan the MFM doctor of NYGH in Toronto). I have had 500,000 swabs and told her as much, she insisted on it again and I yelled at her. She yelled back and I broke down crying in her office. Patients who yell have been abused. I did not use to be like this. Blame your evil doctor colleagues
@@MedicalAutonomyProjectur story doesn’t make sense
I made this comment at another post but I'll make it again here. I'm also a medical professional, and it is tough. I would say I have felt burnout much the same way as these doctors. I once had a patient that filed an official complain against me for referring him to a dentist for an assessment. It was over the phone too, and he demanded service right away. People need to realize we cannot be in 2 places at once. There are shifts where phone calls are overwhelming. Furthermore, dental pain can be something a lot more urgent requiring surgery and should be seen by a more specialized profession. I was yelled at for over 10 minutes with utmost disrespect. Modern medicine is different now. It's becoming more like fast food, where you have to give people what they want with bare minimum assessment (ie. over the phone).
@@winterbegonia1168 Give me your email address, I am happy to send you my medical records
Thank you for your service to the community, Dr. Mang.
As someone who works in the medical field, the charting/paperwork part of our job takes so much time away from our patients. If we don’t chart means we didn’t do it, and according to the law and we are held liable.
I'm special education teacher and I feel the same way. Too much paperwork. We are all burned out and underpaid
I didnt know you guys get a lot of paper work
AI is going to rescue you guys soon.
Can you imagine a Dr making just 60k per year. That explains the reason why we don’t have enough clinics in this Ontario anymore. Ontario is becoming a messy place for everything. Housing , healthcare and safety.
Reason it's called, "Onterrible".
Understand that this is a CLINIC DOCTOR (family doctor)
Not an operating doctor, or a hospital doctor.
She gives prescriptions and middle man information for scans/results/x-rays/referrals
Why should she make more? Shes not delivering babies, and doing surgery, those doctors like my sister make 350K-760K a year, so why would a paper/desk doctor make that....60K seems reasonable. You want to add to inflation by increasing incomes?
Do you believe that a family doctor merely handles paperwork, or do you think one can become a doctor with just 1 or 2 years of higher education? The foundational knowledge of family doctors is comparable to that of surgeons, with a greater emphasis on primary care. In British Columbia, a family doctor who maintains a minimum panel of 250 active patients can earn $385,000 per year. Before this adjustment, family doctors in BC earned $250,000, a figure quite similar to Ontario.
A $60,000 income may not seem reasonable for a doctor. I am supportive of doctors earning more, given the investment they make in their education and experience. It's crucial to recognize that inflation is not solely caused by increasing incomes; it can result from government actions, such as augmenting the money supply and reducing supplements during a pandemic.
If you attribute the rise in incomes to a particular cause, it is worth noting that Canadian Members of Parliament receive the second-highest salary among G7 legislators. MPs do not require a degree, whereas becoming a doctor involves approximately ten years of university education.
@@thatguy5801I am a hospital doctor and you are incorrect in every possible way. You have no clue about medicine at all. They are in the very first line of medicine and has to have vast kmowledge of everything.Most of the early diagnosis were done by them and they need to request accordingly because if they don't the referrals will be rejected and this is based on thei clinical exam. I have met family doctors who managed to identify aortic dissection, diabetes insipidus and even complex medical conditions such as CJD. They do minor surgeries such as mole removal, coil insertion and other basic OBGYN intervention. They also have very high litigation rate. Their legal insurance cost 20,000£ per year in the UK.
@@thatguy5801 they're still part of a government-designed health system. it's more of a sign about the system's flaws.
Burn out is real. Anyone who works in healthcare has to self care. So I understand why this doctor has come to this choice. When you have to take care of family and a doctor it's easy to get burned out fast.
just not doctor service indurstry to,maybe costomers should woek in sevice indutry or family doctor
It doesn't work for corrupt Prime Ministers or the coalition's that prop them up (see: Canada)
Health care worker here ! Shift starts in 5 mins and I’m having a panic attack on the toilet 🚽
@@2CanadianEhserving the public. Panic attack here. People have changed and are not polite anymore. It makes the entire world no matter what you do difficult.
Fortunately for some you are compensated for your stress while others are not.
@@2CanadianEhImagine it taking about 60 minute drive to work and that whole drive is a panic attack. Did that for years.
My uncle is a well known neurosurgeon in Bangladesh.He is also a Professor in a Medical school. He has degree from Bangladesh, China, Uk and USA. Recently he moved in Canada with his kid to help local Canadians. But the paper work and licensing are so tough. After 6 month later he just returned in Bangladesh and continuing practicing here.
Bangla Bangla Bangladesh!
Yeah if you are educated and have good job in your country you don’t go to Canada for better life, you go there to run out all your resources.
That's why a ton of Bangladeshi people come to India for treatment.
There are standards......just because you are a doctor in 3rd world country doesnt mean they will be a good doctor in canada, in fact many doctors from 3rd world countries are not good as their training can be substandard....i rather wait 3 more months than have a brain operation that would leave one devastated
Yup, he found out the harder way that Canada is not paved with gold.
Why isn’t the government stepping in and hiring an assistant for her?? Billions given from the feds for healthcare and they can’t pay for an assistant to save a family doctor???
Things take time. You get an assistant, every other doc gets one. What about NPs then too? The problems are so big this will take years to sort out.
@@alienfetus4No we needed to get rid of Industries that make money for Canada. We can't afford anything.
Healthcare is provincial. Regardless, we are broke, on both levels. There's no money left. It's all going to servicing the interest.
@@SystemUnderSiege It's a little from all groups.
I think that’s a really smart idea, nurses are paid for by the MoH, is there a difference in a family clinic?
Straight out of Atlas Shrugged, when the PRODUCERS finally go on strike. This is a salute to you, Dr Mang, from an American physician who has been in practice for 54 years, and also totally burnt out.
The producers? You mean the workers? How is that out of atlas shrug?
I can tell you that the level of admin work is just unreal
The government can help the family doctor shortage by eliminating paperwork and bureaucracy procedures.
Unless there's a way to reduce paperwork and bureaucracy, it doesn't matter if the money is passed onto the government or insurance companies or the patients, it has to come from somewhere. It's easy to just say 'the government can help' but where is the money going to come from? In the US, health care is so expensive because of the paperwork and administrative costs. One way the government can help is to not burden the health care system anymore by not allowing as many people to stay in this country!
Paperwork.... like the referral to a minimally invasive gynecologist my family Dr refused, when I had a poop infected 100% dehisced uterine wound. Im glad she wasn't late for dinner that night, that was way more important
There will never be paperless anything even if it’s done online it’s still time consuming
@@MedicalAutonomyProject Sounds like a medical emergency, and not something that would been better off if your doctor sent a referral that day instead of the next day. Your assessment of your doctor is based on your flawed understanding.
The bureaucracy is only good for burning the tax $$$ 😢
yup, exact reason why I got burnt out and finally quit. Paper work and more paper work, less time with patients, self and family. No added reward for paper work, and sure enough there was penalty if missed paper work. i.e. no reimbursement. ugh...
What do you do now for a living? Uber driver??
@@mre_man learning to trade financial markets.
Go somewhere else where you can help patients not CRA
Dr. Mang makes so little because she is taking TIME with each patient, not rushing to see more per day and thus earning more. My family doctor is like this and I am very grateful. But she will retire soon and I will join the millions of Ontario residents without care.
No matter where you work, you're just working to make the CEO richer. 😢
Bingo!
That’s capitalism for you. Every country is capitalistic even though they say they are communist etc.
I work as an MA for a family medicine clinic, and I am burned out as an MA doing front office with all the paper work. Can't imagine the doctor that is doing it all while being so underpaid.
Thank you for speaking up! In the idealism and idolization of healthcare physicians, there is the easy and convenient denial of the basic humanism of a doctor. Protect your public servants!
And Canada makes it extra hard for internationally trained MD’s to get licensed to practice in Canada. My husband is a surgeon who graduated in the UK, yet we decided to move abroad where his UK medical degree was accepted without going back to school, sitting the licensing exam and finding a residency spot. He went to school for 18 years in the UK to become a surgeon, and Canada cries about doctor shortages, yet wouldn’t allow doctors from English speaking countries like the UK, US or Australia to work here without sitting the Canadian exam. SMH 🤦🏻♀️ We would never even consider moving back to Canada anymore as the salary they’re paying MD’s is ridiculously low, compared to where he practices now.
When it's not an exam, it's some other foolishness. I am so sorry that your husband had to experience this. The system is unbelievably flawed.
@@rheanibbs9432 It’s ok. But thanks for your empathy. We are actually happy now with how and where we ended up emigrating to. We obviously weren’t thrilled back then when he was trying to move to join me in Canada but things worked out for the better for us. My husband’s salary is much higher than what he’d make in Canada which will allow him to retire 10 years earlier comfortably. I still hope that Canada will review its laws and policy to allow IMG’s to practice medicine with less hurdles. I just feel for the people in Canada who are waiting to see a doctors through OHIP…
I am a UK trained Family Doc. Was keen to make the move to Canada and help address the shortage. Will things improve? They look dire
@@Zacs1993 What a loss of talent for Canada. As far as we know, nothing has changed since my husband looked into options of working in Canada. That was 14 years ago… let’s say, it only got worse. Canada still thinks that they can get by without the help of immigrant doctors.
they're seriously gatekeeping the profession, placing obstacle after obstacle, while people are literally dying in ERs. and yes. to this day. for whatever reason, who knows.
Doctors.. Nurses.. are almost, or already burnt out.. something needs to change.. and 60k a year is ridiculous.. The federal government needs to do something..
Pharmacists, respiratory therapists, and other health professionals too
The gov't IS the problem
She is a saint. She takes the time to see her patients, address their concerns, and care for them deeply. Whereas other FM doctors are in it for the money...seeing patients only 5-10 mins max and rushing them out of the office. Can't blame them..they need to survive on more than 60K a year.
Good for her I hope she finds joy and peace
She deserves to find peace and happiness. What a woman.
Dr. Mang is the best!!! 👍
My friend --- I don't know why the government doesn't make healthcare, employment and housing their top issues...
Me ----You don't know? Well I'll tell you. It's because voters make anti trans, anti immigration and anti vaxx the top issues and therefore politicians put those first.
No. Women should not be doctors.
Hi Dr Mang.
@@elliotjordan2326 Very well said. Voters should learn to focus on the right problems. Politicians just reflect what the voters say. Look at the US where there's an overwhelming focus on the Immigration when their population just shoots one another indiscriminately.
Wow just wow, how is this even possible. After all that just 60K, that's insane, ludicrous! I get why doctors are quitting left, right and center.
She’s not seeing enough patients per day. I am in BC and my GP clients make after expenses between $200,000 and $300,000 per year.
@@tednitta1785 In the segment Dr. Mang says she sees 20 patients a day. Assuming she works 9-5 with a half hour lunch break, 7.5 hours between 20 is averaging 22.5 mins per patient, to me that's seems like a reasonable amount of time to spend per patient without compromising on the quality of care
R u a tax man @@tednitta1785
She sees 20 patients a day, that works out to about 25 minutes per patient (which is very generous of her) for an 8-hour day, most family doctors would spend no more than 10 minutes per patient (and they can earn twice as much), plus say she spends 2 hours a day for paperwork, she then works 10 hours a day for $800/day ($40 x 20) or $192,000 a year ($800*5*48) with 4 weeks of vacation of no income. Paying for rent (say, $40,000/year including insurance) and a clerk/receptionist (say, $40,000/year), her taxable income is $112,000, getting taxed at 30% (federal + provincial income taxes) for $33,600, her take home income is approximately $78,400. So, she is correct in that she does a 10-hours/day work for $78,400 which is equivalent to $62,720 for an 8-hours/day work. Either way, you don't need to spend 10 years in university to make an after tax income of 5K to 6K a month.
@ngvkhtnw22
That Family Physician in Mississauga shown in that video wants to provide quality care to her patients. You simply can't do a good job with people seeing them every 10 minutes as it states in OHIP's billing codes. It's very fair that medical doctors deserve a work life balance. 👌
Sorry, it’s not always 25 mn per patient. Some people have serious pb and it takes more time + all the paperwork. They are in contact with hospital if their patients have some special treatments, have to check regularly if they have enough stock of needles, medicines… Doctors never work for 8 hours. I’ve been a secretary for a doctor for few months and after that I’ve been working as an accountant for a society.
@@gb4771
You are 100% correct. 👌
25 minutes/patient? I doubt they even spend that long per patient unless they have procedures to do.
Some people argue family medicine can be done in 10-15 min. It is not really so. We all know the fast doctors don't do as good of a job
I believe everything she says.
RS, MD, FRCS
Canada
Thanks for bringing this story to light. It’s hard to believe medical doctors can’t sustain their practice. Really eye opening to see the financial numbers to operate a clinic. So sad.
God bless her for her work... I hope she enjoys her well deserved time off... best of luck!!!
Thanks Dr. Mang, you've spent your life contributing way more to our society than we deserve. Please spend some time taking care of your own needs now.
I am a physical therapist in the US who is retiring early in three weeks for the same reason. Paperwork and administrative burden are outrageous, unsustainable, and takes so much energy away from patient care. The government adds more requirements every year without increasing reimbursement. I'm out.
You’re scaring the new grad DPTs out there like me😂
You're fine if you avoid SNF and home health! Good luck!@@kcuba1228
@@kcuba1228 never be afraid of your future!
60k a year is criminal
thank you for your service❤
I know many interns in other industries who make $60k a year. That is absolutely ridiculous and disgusting. No wonder so many talented physicians and medical professionals would rather leave and work in the states.
Insurance companies deny prior authorizations by default to delay paying up as much as possible. They try to deny necessary treatment by requesting unnecessary additional paperwork.
Well, this is still mind-boggling to me. We are facing such a critical moment in Canada about our healthcare system overall. It's sad that a family doctor like her has been practicing for 29 years force to close shop due of lacks of assistance or help. Yes I do agree 100% for sure our healthcare system in Canada is unstainable to maintain for shortage of family doctors in Canada!!!🤦🤦🤦
Why not blame tge oremiercamerica style healthcare
yet who fault for provibnces this it ok pass the buck to pm because federal issue but who need money bwcause hey it ok
It’s not just in Canada, many doctors in America have burn out as well. The administration in hospitals have created a business model and these people have ruined my field.
I am one of those burned out retired doctors of Ontario. Everything she sais is true. Pressure at work is unreal, and very underpaid. Practice of 1500 patients left behind.
And many many more of my colleagues are planning to close their practices too. Nobody seem to care about doctors, we are not allowed to strike. We are not allowed to bill privately more than Ohip pais per visit, 37 Dollars (not 40). We are forced to "vote with our feet'
What are doctors doing instead? You all moving to the USA?
@@immortalsofar7977 different things. Some start contracting business, rent properties, cosmetic injections, trading stocks. Depends on personal preference. Doctors are generally used to set and achieve goals.
Many go into emergency medicine because you get 250 to 350 per hour. If you are working in clinic for 70, less than a nurse practitioner, there is no point at all
I had a primary care doctor quit over the paperwork and bureaucracy of getting patients the care they need
I had a doctor for 30 years and he was great. But now I wander from clinic to clinic to get broken care. Why do we under pay doctors in Canada and treat nurses with abuse ? This disrespect has to stop.
I am convinced the government wants people irritable and on edge. Notice how every wait is 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, 12 months? If it were truly due to a shortage, the wait would keep getting longer and longer. Somebody is at the controls throttling it, but not too much
In America we are lead to believe Canada and other countries have much better health systems. Looks like Canada is not doing much better than we are. US system broken, yes lots of paperwork and also seems to be taken over by big business. It has become unaffordable, l have gone to doctors less and less over the decades.
@@valeriemoore2762 it's seems like Canada is creating a new model
Too many people here don't understand that the $60k she brings in is after all her expenses. For a doctor, that's still very low, but she is making far more than $60k.
I don't blame her for quitting. Totally different line of work, but I worked a job a couple of years ago where management wanted me to keep obsessive records about how I was spending time during the day, so much so that it was hard to get any REAL work done. I finally walked out in disgust.
I used to be an MD. Totally agree. MD is no longer the easy way it used to be to get rich. I switched to healthcare insurance management, that's where the money and easy work is nowadays. Im writing this from my yatch and I am actually at work!
She’s not lying about the excessive documentation in healthcare. It’s really dumb they want you to document more than they want you to actually do anything
My sister had to close her practice.
She was an amazing palliative care specialist
She got a virus that couldn’t be identified.
It burned her out and she had to close up.
you know it’s a sad thing in our society here in the United States and elsewhere. It exists burn out mental exhaustion physical exhaustion. I’ve always believed we should all be retiring when we hit 50 years of age. Especially for all the people who’ve worked all their lives. Worst case scenario is 60 years old. And yet our government ignores how many people are burned out. And they want you to work till what 70s to retire. It’s nonsense.
Whoever did the audio mixing for this, everything's going in the right ear. Strangely you can hear the background audio in both ears though. Even if the source is messed up, just mirror the ears, yeesh.
im sure yopu download the video fix it right
$60k a year as a doctor???!!!! WOW!! I know of security guards straight out of high school making $70k a year here in San Francisco Bay area. I don't see how she did it for almost 30 years
i worked a store during covid, and they were paying security bank on many days, because stores were so influxed with customers. upto double or triple money for that day too.
God bless Dr Mang. Hope your next journey is a fruitful one.
I don’t know in Canada but here in the US family doctors are being pretty much replaced by Nurse Practitioners. All these mom and pop practices are going away being replaced by clinics in Walgreens and CVS or satellites of big hospitals that provide the brand recognition. Many of these practices are closing shop as a result. Family doctors became too expensive to maintain I guess. Personally I’d rather see a doctor than a NP; but that is what we have now
Its not just the government that is causing the paperwork issue, its insurance companies. They are always requesting medical updates on people collecting benefits every 3 months and its a round of tests, documents, etc to satisfy them. This causes a lot of unnecessary doctors appointments just to get a form signed or request tests. I went through that for 2 years and it was a nightmare while trying to get better at the same time.
What insurance companies? This isn’t US… insurance companies have nothing to do with this unless you aren’t resident in the province.
@@daniellai7712 Loan Insurance through my bank in case of injury. Like insuring a car loan or line of credit. They cause it by making you go back and forth to doctors over and over for the same tests and medical updates or threaten to cancel your insurance.
@@daniellai7712 He means benefits companies like Manulife etc. If you're off on disability and receiving coverage you need to regularly provide updates in the form of physician visits, lab work etc...
@@daniellai7712 Insurance companies pay for medications for those who are insured, and request paperwork/prescriptions to cover medical devices, physiotherapy, massage therapy, etc. They also request paperwork for people who are applying for disability for time off, etc.
@@daniellai7712 He is correct. I worked in a physician’s office in Ontario and it’s mind boggling the amount of time my bosses spent doing paperwork for Insurance companies.
I haven't had a doctor in 5 years
I am disabled with chronic pain
They don't care about me
Get used to it. When something is "free" its overused and abused. I lived in the USA and NEVER had a problem seeing a doctor or getting a MRI or test the next day or within a week. This is the biggest difference of Canada compared to the USA. In the USA when a person has health insurance they are treated like a customer or even a king or queen. No waiting, no rude employees who know you cannot go anywhere else and treat you accordingly.
@@mateofernando5066 I'm in Canada and never waited more than a few hours..these people who whine don't really need a doctor or they'd get one. I have 200 clinics in my city to choose from, all free. I never hear any complaints from anyone..just the media.
"overused and abused" why would someone go to see a doctor if they have no health problems?
No doctor in 5 years ? You must be in good health.
@@gb4771 I am disabled
A doctor making less than a nurse is crazy
She’s better off working for someone else or a hospital a couple days a week. Having your own practice can be tough. My heart goes out to her and all the good hearted people in the medical field!
I know of a Business School graduate who went on medical school and became a "family doctor" just so that she can get a medical license to administer botox and perform minor cosmetic procedures for private paying patients.
Yes! This is also the same route many others who have completed a family medicine residency are taking. Instead of starting a traditional family medicine clinic, many younger family doctors are choosing to practice cosmetic medicine. Better pay, better hours, less paper work, happy patients. The government doesn't acknowledge non-traditional family medicine routes of practice. *Sigh* No hate to the doctors that choose this route, but we still need family doctors practicing a broad scope of traditional family medicine.
Honestly because being a doctor taking care of patients is more stressful and uncompensated. Patients don’t take care of their health or trust doctors but would rather get Botox and Plastic surgery procedures. It’s rather disheartening to most primary care physicians. It’s not because people don’t want to be primary care physicians but the cost/sacrifice and benefit don’t match.
If she hires an admin, she can focus on more clients. 20 patients a day on 7 work hours, 1 hour for lunch and breaks is less than 3 patients and hours. She can easily double and triple that. Maybe shes a good doctor but you also have to be a good business person to run a clinic
If the government gave doctors the option to be employees paid at the government salary scale, pretty sure many people will take it.
You can’t simply just double or triple the volume seen because you have an admin assistant. They are not trained and cannot replace the need for the doctor to review paper work. The mental fatigue of seeing more patients exponentially increases with number of patients seen.
Hire a Nurse Practitioner. A lot of these doctors do not want to hire Nurse Practitioners.
They can’t afford it!
props to all these doctors. Their work enviornment just looks so depressing.
What a great direction out leadership has led this country to
It isn’t country… it is province specifically Ontario
I had a heart attack recently and I estimate that almost all the nurses that I saw in our hospital are under 27 years of age. I wonder if this is because of burnout or limiting their salary increases to 1%/year.
Vz service industry
yes, that is a huge factor. Most nurses are leaving the profession due to unsafe nurse to patient ratios which cause high burn out rates. Many people compete to get a nursing seat in the post secondary programs. So some employers feel that nurses come a dime a dozen. they turn them and burn them. Another issue that an RN friend told me was that the health authorities are just waiting for another 15-20 years. That is when all the baby boomers will have passed away and they won't be so stretched anymore. However, we know that isn't going to be the case. We are increasing immigration but we have not kept up with resources needed to service the population.
Rest well, there are 27 year old nurses fresh out of nursing school in the ICU too
High turnover and stress due to burnout
26-year-old nurse here who is quitting soon, it's definitely burnout and feeling unsafe at work. I've only been a nurse for 4 years and witnessed how the system is just getting worse and worse. The nurse-to-patient ratio is getting higher and higher, meanwhile, the admin is hiring fewer and fewer nursing assistants to help with the physical workload. I would gladly take a decrease in pay if it means the unit is adequately and safely staffed. The admin is also replacing working equipment for cheaper alternatives (which are often faulty and I have to waste more time finding working equipment just to do my job). A huge percentage of patient population are overweight, so it takes a couple people to safely reposition or move a patient. It's just physically impossible for a 100lb girl like me to move a 300+lb patient alone, but the admin expects me to do it without any help. Furthermore, often times sick people can be confused and violent, so it's very dangerous for me to work without any help. I have to leave nursing because sooner or later I would end up being permanently disabled from this job even though I love caring for people. We have more than enough nurses and nursing grads but people are leaving because admin doesn't see anything past saving $$$.
My heart really goes out to Dr. Mang. You can tell that she cares so much for her patients. I'm sure this was an agonizing decision. I hope she and her family find peace.
this is the same situation in nursing. We spend half our shift doing paperwork, most of an admission isn't even looking after a patient it's filling out useless forms. Then they add countless computer programs to the mix which result in triple charting. They talk about reducing workload and simplifying -- who exactly makes the decisions above??? It's insane.
I’m so sorry to hear that. My doctor does some of his reporting when I’m in the office. I wish I could help in some way because primary care is the backbone of the medical system. I didn’t realize you got paid so little. If patients knew, they'd be outraged.
60k a year as a doctor. Sorry to hear her practice is closing later this year.
Same thing happening in Dentistry in the US. I worked 56 hours a week and averaged $22.00/hour after 47 years of experience and 8 years of very difficult college. Medicine and Dentistry have become unaffordable for more and more people every year. Paper work, fear of lawyers, MASSIVE regulations and extremely expensive employees are just a few of the problems.
Come to Canada. You can make 2000 - 10 000 cad a day no problem. People I know here go to the US for their dental care to save money.
I am internationally trained pediatrician. Here in Canada it is close to impossible for me to go through all exams and residency without help ag home as I have kids. So I choose to work in alternative healthcare jobs. Now I can't get a job anywhere in the system just because I have no Canadian experience. Even as an medical office assistant...
And that’s the way it should be. WHO knows where you graduated from…university of Grenada ..and you think you’re on par with us/canadian trained doctors. Foreign doctors should pass exams and also for language proficiency. My last specialist..almost walked out in the middle of visit.
@@Bren39 I completely agree with you. But we can be useful in healthcare system if retrained for different positions. I've got a training from York University for patient navigator role. However I still cannot find a job as a navigator because I don't have Canadian experience of working on local EMR. It can be easily learned by having a training at work and that way my knowledge and skills can benefit the healthcare system. By the way my diploma was recognized by Medical Council of Canada and I passed my first exam, but because of my health condition I had to stop going forward on this path...
That’s shocking. Family medicine doctors in the U.S. make like $240k USD on average.
i wonder if that private practice or in netowrk like blue shield and kaiser?
Link?
So do Canadian family doctors whats your point???
@@thehantavirusprivate
@@thehantavirus HMOs in larger cities will be making that. Private practice varies considerably since there is acumen in running a business but the earning potential is greater. Extreme rural areas, reservations, etc, get considerably higher pay due to critical shortage types of pay structures but you live far away from everything.
Speaking 😢of burnt out, I will crawl out of my job as a retail pharmacist if I was financially ok, the most stressful job in the health sector
I've heard it's bad. Can you say more about why?
The physicians and provincial government also aren't helping the situation. The billing model has resulted in many practitioners mandating that their patients either attend their practise or go to the hospital. The result? People jam up doctor's offices for non-essential consultations rather than going to a walk-in clinic.
Yup, our family practitioner closed his doors after 17 years. He decided to finish his career at the hospital 2 counties over.
There’s no incentive for any one in medical school to become a family MD, when other specialties are treated better. Family friend of mine decided to switch specialities after doing a rotation in family medicine and couldn’t stand the admin work of it
i wonder if a family medicine can suddenly change to a speciality, dont they have to go back to med school for that? specialists earn way more, the more niche the better.
Wow I can see why she burned out, all those hard copies of patient files need to go. Using an outdated system is not efficient, should have converted to a full digital system.
I hope your situation will get better. Wishing you the best. Thanks for reporting on this Ms. Mulligan.
I am a registered nurse working critical care and it makes me sad that the satisfaction of doing my best for patients needs to be so exhausting. My support to the family physicians out there. I know my GP is looking more burnt out every time I make an appointment.
Apparently it's more important to waste money changing the name of Dundas St instead of paying doctors what they are worth
Doctors are already overpaid. The root cause is feminism that denies entry of male med students to further their agenda.
Canada ahs the fourth highest paid doctors one EARTH it has NOTHING to do with money. We really just need to train more people BUT good luck getting the doctors lobby to agree with that.
Agree. Given resources are usually limited, we need to prioritize.
Treating patients, numbering millions in Toronto, generally outranks settling historic grievances, petitioned, in this Dundas Street renaming case, only by around 15,000.
Besides, we can learn to see things differently. Having a street or road named after you can go either way; it can be an honor or a curse.
The latter is that your name is routinely being stepped upon and run over by vehicles, not to mention the occasional defecation etc. 😅
I don't think it was the money that was the issue for her. She clearly said it was the paper work that was burning her out.
Too different governments. The city has nothing to do with Healthcare
The same reason i retired in 2019 after 30 years in practice. I was mentally and physically exhausted. I can treat complex medically issues but give me one demanding/difficult patient and it'll ruin my entire day. I decided to come back a year later but decided to see less patient with no weekend calls. We spent more than half of the time doing paperwork than actually seeing patients. Plus the fact that insurance are nickel and diming us to death.
That’s why I stopped practicing my NP license. Being an RN has more life balance and better pay in California as a bedside nurse.
Sadly, people working in the medical profession are being underpaid in Canada. That’s why many Canadian trained nurses or physicians move to the US or abroad. It is crazy how much these professions make in the US. The system there is flawed as well, but at least they don’t leave their jobs easily like this doctor did while working for such a low pay in Canada.
Not everyone is underpaid. Cardiologists, radiologists, ophthalmologists are overpaid and egos grow with the pay
Why is Canada sinking further and further into chaos… I am terrified to go back to Canada and see what it has become.
Still omitting the role insurers play in all this? We’re paying lawyers judges and the like, more to squash malpractice cases than we pay drs nurses and administrators….to prevent them.
Kudos to her for speaking up!
Thank you for bringing light to this important issue Dr. Mang!
my left ear missed all of that
My family doctor also "retired" abruptly, no warning , no one relieving or taking her practice. It is hard to have no family doctor especially if you are on disability where your insurer expect an annual update.
I am retired home care nurse, worked for agency. Agency required to update patient care plan every few months and gets current paperwork from nurse on a order changes, all had to be signed by Dr. Expect whoever doctor worked for, like HMO's had their paperwork or private practice had to meet government standards for documentation, lots of paperwork. I know that paperwork and other requirements for the agencys increased overhead over the 45yrs l worked. Over that time, the percentage of what the agency charged for care went mostly to nurses doing the work. By the time l retired only a small percentage of what they charged went to the nurses, the rest was cost of running the business. One of the reasons of rising medical costs.
Canadian Health Care System it’s unsustainable that’s the reason why half of the Professionals Health Care workers as Doctors, Nurses are moving out of the country during 1995.
In 1978 I was an assistant in a 6 th grade classroom. I sat a desk and was given government tests to correct each day. Back then the teacher was required to test her students once a week to see if they were performing up to standards. In the meantime the students were doing their regular work and I would see their hands up needing help. I wasn’t able to help them because I was so busy correcting these tests. The teacher told me she would pay me to correct the tests at home so I could help her out in the classroom.
thi aimt 1978 anymore different times
@@junkfoodguy I’m comparing the paperwork load
you thimk ford wa right bout 1978 then @@beccalove8791
I was an RN in the 1970’s. I quit after working 3 years. Why? The amount of paperwork was ridiculous even back them.
But it was the bullying by my fellow nurses that made me quit.
I went to work on a ward about 20 years as a unit clerk.
The nurses were exactly the same - bullies. Human nature, I suppose.
The nurses who advanced to be Head Nurses were usually the worst.
Many good nurses leave the profession. The stress of dealing with bullies, huge amounts of paperwork - definitely not worth it.
@@user-ow2pk9io4b you think doctor aren't ant better
I am a chronically ill caregiver if she can’t do it what am I supposed to do
Why does she not accept interns to help her??
Seeing a doctor making only $60,000 a year is critically damaging. While I’m just a tech making $132,000 a year without student loans has humbled me intensely.
Hire me mf
They are coming to BC.
Basically nobody is willing to work for peanuts
Doctors have lower life expectancy because of all the stress they go through.
I know a family practice (out of the US) that’s opting out of accepting private insurance for this reason, so they get longer times with patients that would’ve otherwise been spent processing insurance paperwork and dealing with claims… basically cutting out the middleman
In the US, FQHC family med doctors also get about 40 dollars a visit from medicare/medicaid. However, FQHCs cover the cost of staff/administration. Despicable that in Canada their healthcare network doesn't adequately cover fees necessary to keep ancillary staff.
not to mention rent and other fees
Every doctor should be making at least over 125,000 a year.
dot trll ford because he make double that
RNs make that, which is criminal. Nurses are super overpaid.
My friend --- I don't know why the government doesn't make healthcare, employment and housing their top issues...
Me ----You don't know? Well I'll tell you. It's because voters make anti trans, anti immigration and anti vaxx the top issues and therefore politicians put those first.
should every docxtor make what the premier make?@@elliotjordan2326
@@RustyBrickStudios how much 600k goes to taxes rigbt