The Battle of Spionkop (Spioenkop) - who won?
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- čas přidán 22. 09. 2018
- In today's battlefield tour my father and I take a walk around Spionkop (Spioenkop), scene of the some of the heaviest fighting of the Anglo-Boer war. It's a fascinating battlefield, hardly changed since that short, sharp battle of January 1900.
The battle was part of the disastrous campaign to relieve Ladysmith and push the Boers out of Natal.
This battle lives on in British culture as the name of many football stands across the country, the most famous being the Liverpool kop at Anfield. So if you watch the English Premier League and always wondered what the source of the name "Kop end" is then now you know.
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There are so many reasons why a war starts but it still amazes me how ordinary thinking people are duped into joining under some pretext from their goverment.
I wonder how many English soldiers would have joined if they knew it was based on greedy industrialist expansionism which ended in concentration camps where woman and children died of hunger and disease? And that was done to subdue farmers who turned soldiers to protect their country.
I hope this channel will also cover that aspect of this war.
Bit like what the boers did to the zulus then. Dutch colonisers werent they just like the british? The british empire was an empire in an era of empires. As for those concentration camps. They were the british army/kitcheners idea to prevent the boers fighting from home, so to speak. When the british government eventually found out about it weeks/months later. Remember there were no phones etc back then, they first sent doctors and nurses to help in the camps, and after they reported back they ordered the process ended. Still a tragedy tho and undoubtably would be a war crime in the modern era.
Well produced and researched. I myself have visited Spion Kop often since my first trip as a lad in 1958..P.S. my late Dad with his 6 brothers recently settled in Durban from England first visited the bsttleground in 1924. Pleased that the British Department of Defence still cares for Spion Kop! Your feature is now saved permanenly with me. Thank you!
Thanks Richard. Must be great to have seen it back then. Appreciate you letting me know. All the best, Chris.
I was not aware that the BDOD, takes care of the Spioen Kop memorial. Thank you for this, as a Boer, I am saddened by our governments ineptitude in this regard.
The same for the French government, that is taking care of the South African memorial at Delville Wood, France, where a memorial was erected by the previous South African government, in honour of the South Africans, Transvaal Scottish Regiment in particular, that suffered grave losses.
Again the anc government is to incompetent to take care of the memorial.
Thank you, our French Brothers in this regard.
@@redcoathistory Absolutely a fantastic bitesized documentary in relation to Spion Kop. Like your fantastic Anglo-Zulu War episodes when you are literally on location you make these battles jump out from the pages of history books. It is so poignant actually seeing the territory and location where these battles took place. I know that history books state that over 240 British soldiers were KIA as a result of this battle. Is this a definitive figure? I ask this because in "Boer War Generals" by Peter Tew it states that Louis Botha ordered a body count for British KIA and the figure is over 600. I was surprised you omitted a historical fact in relation to Sir Charles Warren. History has been unkind to him twice. In British Army circles he was always referred to as "that damn policemen". As Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police in London his department was accused of poor investigating and inferior detective work during the infamous Jack the Ripper murders in 1888.
Heritage KZN maintains Spionkop
Two more things: Firstly how beautiful it is up there, especially when the aloes are in flower. Secondly the Boers also thought they’d lost, and withdrew. As they were saddling up at the bottom of the hill, Louis Botha came riding up and convinced a few of them to go back up. When they reached the summit, to their surprise the British had withdrawn and the Boers claimed the summit.
Thanks Luke 👍🏼
Was last there around 2008. Good to see funds from whomever being invested to expand and preserve this history.
Good piece of knowledge you prodiced here
I remember reading an account of Spionkop years ago. I was haunted by that terrible photograph of the British trench, but I didn't quite understand why the Brits remained in that trench like sitting ducks. Finally, it's all clear. I didn't realise the British & Boer positions were so messy, nor how confused the Brits were.
Cheers, mate. I'm really enjoying these vids. I'm glad to see your channel is still going strong.
Superb high quality presentation, helping ensure these places are not forgotten fields ,.. well done....shared to my facebook....
Thanks Andy, I'm glad you enjoyed it and thanks a lot for sharing.
That's actually Spioenkop dam in the background and not a river. It's a long time since I have visited Spioenkop but I did taught History in Durban and regularly took classes on tours of the Natal battlefields. In the past there was no gate and no control of visitors. The Boer War is of real interest to me as both my grandfathers fought on the British side. One in the Imperial Light Horse and the other with Kitchener's fighting scouts. I was fortunate to have had first hand accounts from them of the war and the action they saw.
That's great, thanks for sharing Mike.
As an Afrikaaner, awesome video. Baie goed gedoen Engelsman
Boers were Not pajama boys ! Tough to Intimidate !
It was a confusing battle to read about. You have brought some clarity to it.
pdalko Thanks a lot for the feedback - glad to know you found it useful. It is a stunning and poignant battlefield to visit.
Excellent narrative Christian . I too have spent many hours on that hill imagining what it must have been like .
Peter Rooke thanks Peter
Fantastic video. It really is a shame that these two great peoples found themselves at odds and that it had to come to what it did.
I’ve heard accounts of this battle many times but until today never saw the battlefield present day, nor any of the memorials. Thanks.
Great documentary.
I'm a Liverpool FC fan. Have had the priviledge to have been on The Kop.
Thanks Henry.
Excellent and being able to see the various features in you video helps to bring the battle to life. Thank you.
Thanks - yes I;ve found from my own experiences that it can be really hard to grasp a battle until you can walk it and start to understand the topography. Thanks for watching!
Great video, must go through the rest of the series.
Thanks a lot - I hope you enjoy the other films too.
Woodgate made a fatal mistake by not pushing his piquettes forward once they took the hill. And as at Majuba, the Boer used the terrain to their advantage and occupied the crest lines from where, they fired at the British troops silhouetted against the skyline.
Wonderful video that really helps provide a clear understanding of the battle, its landscape and the challenges faced by all who took part. As a fellow Leicester man, I too have stood on that version of the Kop!
Nice one Marvin - a fellow Leicester lad, a city fan and a military history lover! We should defo keep in touch.
Great video. Thanks
Lovely that you've got your Dad there with you, mate I gather you got your love if military history from him??
I also have a similar passion for British military history that I also got from my Dad. It helps you bond together, its a shame my son isnt that interested in military history but we do share a love and passion for The Arsenal. 🇬🇧✌️
I'm trying to get my kids into it. Youngest is enjoying building lego tanks and D-Day battles so we on course hopefully
I didn't realise you were from Leicester Christian, i used to stand in the Kop at Filbert Street as well, as aoon as i saw the title of your video thats the first thing that came to my mind. Anyway your video's are excellent, very interesting and so much detail. I think the Zulu guy you spoke to in the last video i watched, when you asked him if they like to remember the Zulu wars (words to that effect) and he said its good to remember our history so we can reconcile, which i thought was aptley put. I am following you on Instagram. I am also ex Coldstream Guards so maybe a video about Hougmonte Farm Battle of Waterloo, would be jnteresting Christian.
Cheers Ben, always good to chat to a fellow City fan! I'm from Syston originally and still have most of my family in Leicester...I'd love to do a video on Waterloo but first I'm going to focus on the Peninsular war. Once Corona is history I want to save up for a trip to Europe and try and visit as many of the battlefields as possible (I live in SA now). Cheers mate and keep in touch.
We used to own a house in Bromyard , Herefordshire called Spion Kop . There were so many Spion Kops such as the one at Anfield that you wonder why what turned out to be a British reversal was held in such high esteem back home - presumably because of the sacrifice made by the troops who certainly deserved better leadership.
Well it has always been a bizarre British trait to celebrate our failures I guess.
@@redcoathistory Bet you voted for brexit and still think it was a victory. 😄
Excellent! I had been wanting to see the location the Boers shot down from. I read how the Brits didn't realize that where they entrenched, was such that the Boers could shoot down upon them. there was another video here on top of Spienkop but they failed to show the position the boers were shooting from. Good on you that you showed that! However, the boer locations didn't really appear to be all that much above the brits but apparently they were enough above. It looks like a long distance to those locations where the boers shot from. doesn't seem like a good enough angle but obviously it was.
Thanks for the feedback - I hope to go back again in the future when I reach the Anglo-Boer war for my Podcast.
@@redcoathistory good stuff! I read about the zulu and Boer, brit wars years ago. W a book you cant see the actual battlefields of course. I love seeing the actual battlefields! Awesome!
excellent video.
RedUK thanks a lot.
Great job btw
My great great grandad was killed in spion kop and everytime me and my dad go to a liverpool match we take a sign saying remember the boer war so just remember all the soldiers who have ever fought and died for country
They didn't die for your country, they died trying to take South Africa from the Boers.
@@jaapongeveer6203 The Dutch had an empire too. Everyone was at it. How did the Boers get to Africa? Poor people joined the forces of the empire for money, and everyone was exploited by the rich. What was the point of an empire if not to have wealth and power? We can all try to be better people, but when did anyone learn from history?
@@steveg2479 The Dutch you mention are not Boers. The Boers belong in South Africa and have nothing to do with the Dutch Empire.
@@jaapongeveer6203 Well, that part of South Africa
@@jaapongeveer6203 Most of it is Rodes fault he was offered lots of land for various mining but was upset because his boy friend had died ( maybe just because his bestie friend ) so didn't accept the offer so when he got his sence back the offer was withdrawn so he lied to the UK government
The Cameronians where always good for a Bayonet charge
I live opposite a War Memorial to the Lancashire Fusiliers put up after the war, its funny that whenever you see them you always assume they are to WW1 but it was for the Anglo-Boer war, I guess in many respects it was a prototype for the ones put up following WW1
MJ C yes that’s a good point. Thanks for sharing. I think because of WW1 people often forget the horrors of the Boer war
Yes, similar to the memorial in St.Anne's Square in Manchester. It is a memorial to the Manchester Regiment, who played a major role in the siege of Ladysmith. It does look quite similar to the memorials that would spring up some 18 years later for WWI. So that most people asume it is a WWI memorial on passing.
The Anfield 'kop' is not the original, just the most well known. The term was used by soldiers from the region who survived in several grounds
6:43 are you higher than those two knolls? The boers controlled your area but it seems those knolls are lower, or is it the camera angle?
Chris, I’m heading back to Fugitives Drift in 2 weeks, but as per your recommendation going to stop and stay at Bullers Rest Lodge on the way, so I can check out the Ladysmith museum.
Prior to getting to The Lodge, I’m thinking of going via Sprionkop battlefield on the way, for a self tour. Is it easy to find from R3 and well marked.
Hi - it’s a while since I’ve been but as I recall it was well sign posted. Have a great trip!
Walked up there.
Marksmanship of a Boer is famous my buddy.
I am also from Leicester and also visited this place few years ago as part of South African History amazing view from the Top
A fellow Leicester lad! Fantastic. I hope you enjoyed the video - all the best and keep in touch.
Good video mate, how long do you need to visit the battlefield properly? Planning a trip to next year
Thanks Adam I'd say minimum of three hours but 5 if you want to sit, think and soak it all in.
my understanding is that it was artillery that did the most damage, if it wasnt killing and injuring the British soldiers, it was suppressing them and allowing the sharpshooters free reign
Here's a good article I recently read - www.jstor.org/stable/44232823?seq=7
The Boers knew that area extremely well! were they from there,nothing much was there then or now
I walked there yesterday! 😃
Nice! I hope to get back at some point.
Thx for hearting my comment and u explained exactly like my guide did!
For your information Linfield FC had the first kop and it was called the Spion Kop
the Head Shot Party
I was born a few miles away from a small settlement called Spion Kop near Mansfield Woodhouse, Notts. Major-General John Talbot Coke was involved in the battle, grandson of D'Ewes Coke, born at Mansfield Woodhouse, a well-known Nottinghamshire industrialist and clergyman. In this day of cancel culture surprised they haven't changed the name.
Churchill, Botha, and Ghandi, there's 3 of a kind for you. LOL.
on the way down a british solder was overheard saying about the general"He coudn,t lead ducks to the pond and was summarily shot for it.
I'd be keen for a source for that please, I had never heard this story.
BE Awesome trip to tour area
The Boers snatched defeat from the jaws of victory... And created a global legacy.
At a ratio of 5 to 1
The Brit foot soldier took solace in knowing he was best led by the nobility class.
Whist studying the conflict keep in mind that the Boer "army" was just normal farmers, not soldiers. The British had 20000 soldiers in this battle against 8000 farmers. The British had 36 field guns vs the 4 of the Boer republics. The British lost 243 and had 1250 wounded, the Boer68 killed and 267 wounded. On this day 3 future leaders were on the same battle. Louis Botha, the first premier of South Africa, Winston Churchill, and Mahatma Gundi, just imagine how different the world would have been if any one of them got killed that day. Also notable was that Vincent van Gogh's brother was fighting on the Boer side. May the all rest in peace, what a waste of lives in pursuit of gold and expansion.
Amazing how many people died for those goldfields, nothing more, nothing less.
4:27 Ghandi was never a world leader, the other 2 were.
Chris : why did the boers sleep with their shoen on ?
To keep de wet from defeat 😂
Pronounced SPEE-YOON-KOP. Means "Spy- Hill"
itd a shame hou the British handle the woman and children in their houses taken shot their anemals burn their clothes, its a shame
General Buller wasn't much of a tactician-he should have stuck to quartermastering. He actually wanted to decline his appointment, but it was not accepted. So many good men's lives wasted for nothing.
The Boere where farmers not military men. Fighting for the country they love
They were both. One can be warriors and farmers…just look at the Taliban or even the Zulu of the 19th century - they weren’t full time soldiers. The Boers were expert fighters and we applaud them.
The first Kop was at Woolwich Arsenal's Manor Ground not Liverpool
Glad to see you took the most important points from the film mate
@@redcoathistory You can prove anything with facts
The Boers gave 'em what for! So much for the might of the empire against a bunch of farmers and for the shame of concentration camps in the end.
John Cornell you need to educate yourself maty!
@@richardjooste4636 the boers are gone, its back to a black government ya wet quilt, kisses
you lost end of story, and the blacks who you supressed for years now rule you Karma yea buddy, im smiling xxx
@@tomhirons7475 You shouldn't be too smug as the way things are going in your Country soon you too will be outnumbered by Blacks...
@@andrewdutoit9571 what black people i think you read too much nternet shit, get educated xx kapich ????
I really don’t like the idea that the British are the only ones that are getting burial sites and and memorials and not the Boers. They did so much defending their homes and country.
Never fear - There are plenty of Boer memorials including one at Spion Kop.
So is Spion Kop the British version of Hamburger Hill?
I'm afraid I know nothing about Hamburger hill.
@@redcoathistory Operations Dewey Canyon and Apache Snow in Vietnam. First the Marines, and then the US Army, marched into the A Sau Valley, drove up the slopes of Hill 937 at great cost, drove the NVA off the hill. And then left, allowing the NVA to return.
@@davidtuttle7556 Thanks - in that case then it sounds like a fair comparison.
Because these people was never counselled they took with them these terrible memories to their newly born children to call it the culture. It is not a culture it is a choice. You can choose to love despite the conditions or you can choose to be a devil!
Britain as the Evil empire with Rhodes as Tarkin and Rothschild as Vader.
Boers weren't exactly angels themselves either, same as the Zulu's, French, Germans and Indians. The list goes on, nobodies perfect.
Remember the Death Camps !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@koosbos1114 Yes, the Brits were the first to set up concentration camps some 40 years before the germans. Tens of thousands of women and children died in them.
@david noone It was the greed of Rhodes and Milner for the Gold on the Rand that was the route cause of the Boer War.
@@TheRingoism It was the greed of Rhodes and Milner for the Gold on the Rand was the cause of the Boer War.
so when the british win against an opponent you call it genius but when the british lose you call it a carnage. yeah no biasy here
Pls give the time code where I make these statements.
You sound like a bitter ender
I'm from Ladysmith and I find it so ironic that the Boers were at war with the British in a country that wasn't rightfully either or .
Ladysmith is a lovely town / you are very lucky. Have you seen the monument on the battlefield of Spionkop to the Indian element that fought with the British (including Ghandi). It is well worth a visit. When it comes to war I avoid the politics but will always salute the brave participants of all sides who fought.
@@redcoathistory I'm actually heading to the battlefield today that's how I stumbled across your video. It's very well informative . I shall keep my eye out for every thing you mentioned . That's a good approach . RIP to all those who passed away on both sides
Hamzah Khan thanks a lot. I wish you a good journey and an interesting visit.
The Boers won it on the Battlefield, just like the Americans and the Australians.
You played soccer....not football.
@John Cornell The ball is not shaped like a foot.