How to Tune VM22 Mikuni Clone Carburetor Predator 224 Build 212 Mini Bike Go Kart VM-22 Carb Install
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- čas přidán 5. 03. 2022
- How to tune your VM22 Mikuni clone carburetor for Predator 224 and Predator 212 engines.
www.amazon.com/ORAEVY-Perform... Carb and kit I used in this video. Fuel used: gasoline PDF file for the VM22 carburetor. There are only a few issues you may run into outside those described in the pdf and I've tried to cover them in the video by demonstrating the issues and how to correct them.
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Great Source of info!
@bahnzai7313 shared a great tip to remove/install the e-clip. It works!
First Prepare the VM22 Mikuni clone carb before you install it on the engine:
MAKE SURE CARBURETOR IS INSTALLED AND ALIGNED CORRECTLY WITH NO VACUUM LEAKS
1. Main jet size:
Example for gasoline, I'm at 650 feet above sea level, the base starting point on jet size here is to install a 120 to 135 main jet. This is normally rich. Start with a rich condition and lean out the air/fuel mixture a little at a time. Most of the VM22 Mikuni clone carburetors will come with a 95 or 98 main jet. Obviously those main jets are way too small. Find out what altitude you are currently at and adjust your jet size accordingly. At sea level you'd probably want to begin with a 130 to 145 main jet. If you're at higher elevations of say several thousand feet, you may want to begin with a 110 to 125 main jet. This is just a rough starting point for gasoline and it's intended to be rich. You can lean it out 1 size at a time to get the mix where you need to be.
2. Pilot jet size:
The pilot jet is very forgiving. There will be some variation for altitude but the engine is not moving much air at idle, so this will let you get by with a general setting that works for multiple altitudes. The VM22 carburetors I've purchased have had different pilot jets installed. I like to go with a # 20 pilot jet here, but I've purchased a few different sizes to keep on hand. You should be fine with most pilot jets from # 18 up to around a # 26. A pilot jet within this size range will be adequate for most elevations for most mild engine builds. Of course if you have a fire breather on your hands, you'll likely need more pilot jet.
3. Float level: *Spring loaded needle valve
The float level will be wrong on your new VM22 Mikuni clone. It needs to be readjusted properly before installing the carburetor. Hold the carburetor upside down with the float bowl removed. You'll need to bend the float adjusting tab that sits directly above the needle valve. The needle valve is spring loaded, when you press down lightly on the float and release, you'll see the float spring back up a small distance. Adjust the float by bending the tab until the float is only level when you apply light downward pressure on the float. (overcoming the spring in the needle valve) When the float does not have light downward pressure applied it should spring up slightly,
*IMPORTANT* only with light downward pressure should the float appear to be level.
Once you have your VM22 Mikuni clone carburetor prepared for a first run, turn the brass pilot adjustment air screw on the underside of you carburetor in gently until it just stops. Don't force it, then turn it out counterclockwise 1.5 turns and stop. This is where you want to begin and hopefully end.
Start the engine, allow it to warm up, adjust to a low idle. Turn the brass pilot adjustment air screw out 1/4 of a turn. Wait a few seconds, listen to the idle speed of the engine. If it increased, keep turning the brass pilot air screw out another 1/4 turn, listen to the engine. If it slows RPM, try 1/4 turn in, and listen to the idle speed. When it's adjusted so the idle speed neither increases nor decreases, STOP. Turn off the engine and count the number of turns to close the brass adjustment screw. You are counting the turns in so if all is good you can put it back exactly where it was.
How many turns in will determine your pilot jet size. More than 2 full turns to close the adjustment screw, your pilot jet is too large. Less than 1 full turn to close the adjustment screw, your pilot jet is too small. Re-jet and repeat. To me the perfect setting is 1.5 turns out for gasoline.
Main Jet: Tune under a load. While riding, pull to full throttle, release the throttle and listen to the exhaust during deceleration. If your jet is too lean, it sounds like firecrackers, increase one jet size at a time until it doesn't. If your exhaust does not crackle and pop during deceleration during set up. Reduce the main jet one size at a time until it crackles and pops during quick deceleration from full throttle, then increase one jet size. Read the Sparkplug. White=lean, black=rich, brown=perfect.
#mikuni #predator212 #kartracing - Jak na to + styl
Great to rewatch these videos . When I first started building these engines , I came across kff’s videos and greatly helped me out . I didn’t realize that I didn’t like the videos and now that I make me own , I realize how important it is to do so . I don’t think I could ever explain in great detail the way he does . Greatly appreciate you bud ! Ty !
This video is by far the best I have seen for tuning a clone carb, Well done sir, subscribed!
Thank you Sir! I appreciate you!
@@KentuckyFriedFixeshey man I got a vm22 just like this but it just idles super rich, what should I do?
@@user-ru7he6qj2w Check that pilot jet size and the needle setting. Follow the video step by step, you'll get where you need to be.
Hey man, hope this gets to you. I was just curious. When you say you went to a 20 pilot from a 38, are you referring to a .0200"? So a #42 pilot?
As far as I have been able to find for these keihin 3j style pilot jets, they are only available in 4 sizes: #35 - (.0125"), #38 - (.0150"), #40 - (.0175"), #42 - (.0200").
Stock Jetting (pilot) in the Aftermarket 22mm is typically around .0150". (AKA #38?)
Thank you in advance and keep up the great videos!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes
@@KentuckyFriedFixes awesome! Can't wait to see it, you do a great, thorough job explaining things.
I have been doing a little research as well and there are some variants of the VM22 (chikuni) that do come with mikuni jets instead (I've found that lots of guys search these ones out specifically as well) but the majority of them come with the pilot being the harder to find keihin 3j version. I cross referenced them using gopowersports website which has them listed in inches, and then jets r us website which has them listed by the keihin manufacturer number, and then also found through my research that those are the only 4 sizes they offer in that particular style.
I have also been trying to cross reference ideal jetting (or what different manufacturers use or suggest) to try and figure out that as well. What I have found is: the GPS vm22 comes with a 130 main and a 16 pilot (I assume they are drilling out the stock #38 from .0150" to .0160" perhaps their own custom jetting for what they feel is ideal).
Then I'm not sure if this is correct but the only jetting info I could find on it was in a review on a parts website so not sure how reputable it might be but the guy claimed EC carburetors version of the VM22, the WC22 which is supposed to be custom blueprinted for the 212 etc, comes with a 105 main jet and a 12.5 pilot jet from EC, which doesn't seem quite right to me but have not been able to confirm.
I was also trying to go off and compare to the manufacturer specs for the PZ22.
Stock vm20 jetting
75 main
33 pilot
Stock ghost pz22
85 ( .033") main
42 (.0165") pilot
Stock animal pz22
95 main
32 pilot
This is all my findings thus far. I apologize for the long comment reply. Thank you again for taking the time to respond. Looking forward to your next video!
That’s a great video very well done. I run a small repair shop and am currently building 4 of these 224 engines and have been looking for a place to start with the 2 running that carb thank you much!
Thanks Dominic! Hope it helped!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes what helped the most was on a built motor where to start with the jet’s. Not very often I have to mess with changing them. Hard to know everything. I have a built 196cc Coleman mini bike with 22 mikuni stamped carb and I believe it has a 160 main don’t know the pilot jet size. And I think the needle is in 2 or 1. But it has a plastic washer and a metal washer under the needle. I have never seen that before. One thing I noticed wile watching your video is the knock off carb has a way different needle profile then the one I have.
@@bjerkefamilyadventures Dominic these Mikuni knockoff carbs have a mix of parts inside. There must be several factories making these things. The jets and pilot jets won't even interchange between the different versions of what is supposed to be the same carburetor. I honestly had to match up my pilot jet to the correct picture when I ordered it. I tried genuine Mikuni jets , nope, tried jets from another knockoff VM22, nope. Don't get me wrong the carbs are cheap power but man these guys need to get their act together on internal parts. Thanks
I couldn’t agree more. I have 4 or 5 different jet kits for the different carbs. I’m getting to the point I think I’m just going to take numbered bits after them
Hi KFF. Thank you for this video my mini bike run way better now. I followed your video, read the text file.i gained 1000 rpm with your help.i thought the screw was fuel because it was on intake side.knowing its air helped! I need to tune needle now.
Good deal Larry! 1K RPM gain is a win! The VM22 clone is a little different than the Keihn clones. Love these things! (Love the Tillotson clone carbs too but these VM-22 carbs are way cheaper)
Big help brother!! This is community I’ve been looking for.
Glad to have you aboard!
Thank you, as always I thoroughly enjoy watching your videos, as I'm watching this one for the third time! It was right on time as I just got what looks like the exact same kit as you have there. I would have never figured all this out on my own. What's really crazy is I have also in front of me another carb that's new, just been on my shelves as I thought it was too big, it's just like the pz 27 you have, but mine is a pz30. I pulled the jet out to look it has 92 on it, but Itd be great if you could throw a video up on the pz's when you get time. I look forward to your future videos, you've taught me tons already, and again, thank you sir!
Hi Chris! I appreciate you. I will try to do a PZ type carburetor video too when it warms up. The Chinese clones of the PZ carbs are pretty close to the factory original design! Much closer than the VM-22 clones.
Hey brother I put my carb setup on my brand new hemi predator motor( just got her broke in) I ran the adjustment screw all the way in and backed it out a turn and a half. The fuel line didn't exactly run downhill anymore using the stock tank so I installed a pulse pump. It's definitely hooked up right and is getting fuel to the carb but I can't get her to crank for anything! I've pulled till my arm is sore. It tries to hit every once in a while and puffs out the front of the carb some, but she just won't crank. Suggestions?????? Thank you
@@ChrisRoncker Hi Chris! I suggest going back to basics anytime you have a no start issue. If everything was running well until you changed the carburetor, then you likely have a set up issue with the carb. You'll need to verify the basics of course with a few quick checks first. Things like, does it have spark etc. Verify the slide is installed correctly and moves up and down freely in the carb bore. Then go from there. If you have installed one of the suggested size main jets and done the set up work prior to the install for the carburetor tuning session, the most common issue is an air leak (vacuum leak) around the carburetor or intake mounting. Verify the carburetor is aligned with the intake and that the internal o-ring is not exposed on one side or the other. Read the description carefully for jetting tips to prepare your carburetor before the install. Most of these carburetors come from the factory with an extremely small main jet, something like a # 95 or a # 98. Those are way to small for a 212cc engine, unless you're on top of Mount Everest. Check your altitude and jet accordingly, then fine tune later by reading the spark plug. You can do this. I know it can become frustrating, but hang in there, it's not magic or voodoo, you'll get it.
Top video got my motor going in 5mins after this 👍
Glad to hear it Ruth!
Best breakdown of this carb ever ! 🤙🏼
Thank you! This video was mainly just a quick install and tune for this engine. I had no idea it would attract this much attention. I will do a better one that includes the pre setup on the carb soon.
Thanks for the great video. It really helps a lot!
You're welcome Joe. Glad to have you here!
This is JUST what I was looking for!!!!
Thanks a lot Kentucky, I like your style of instruction.
I appreciate you Gordon!
god bless you dude, i just got a mega moto 212, swapped a tilly 225 with a mikuni carb. first bike i’ve ever worked on and couldn’t for the life of me get it to work right. after 15+ hours of searching on youtube and trying different things, I found this video. holy, moly, someone who actually EXPLAINS how to do this stuff. +1 like, +1 sub 🙏🏼
Thanks Red Rain! I appreciate you!
Thank you this is exactly what I needed
Welcome!
Thanks for the video man! You saved the life of a brand new "mikuni". Lol...
Thanks Spanky! I've been there before!
Thanks brother jus ordered one for kids crf100 cleaned the card twice and I'm done
I like these carbs. I just wish the Chinese factories would get together and use the same style jets in all of their VM22 carbs. Thanks!
You have a great channel.
Thanks Sam! You do too. I see those 459cc vids you have up and I'm gonna get to watching them ASAP! Thanks!
Valve cover gasket was ripped on mine. Header pipe support ripped it. Spent hours on carb, jets, and gaskets. Finally on the next step for tuning the 200 pilot jet.
You'll get it Dex, hang in there. Be sure to read the description, I've added a lot of extra info there that's not in the video.
Sub’d awsome video finally gonna take a chance at it and order one for myself
Great video. I have the same 224cc and same carb that was also too rich in the idle circuit. It also had a #38 pilot jet. I had the screw turned all the way in. I would really like to get a #32 pilot jet, but no one has them. Only for the real Mikuni you can get any size. Main jet no problem, ever one has them.
OK, I ordered some aftermarket pilot jets from go powersports. Thanks, I couldn't find them anywhere
That's where my pilot jets came from. Best place to order for the VM-22 pilots. They show the picture of the one you need.
Very informative, thanks.
I appreciate you!
Best vm22 vid!
Thank you!
I ran into the same thing with 4 different so called Mikuni. I believe what they're doing is finding the best one that flows and if it don't flow. They send em back and then we wind up with em lol
Hi Andy! I think you're right! The carb in the video was likely a Methanol conversion that someone forgot to swap back the Idle jet.
thank you for taking the time to help me i was looking at my 4 hp b/s and the intak on the ghost i want to get the drill out but i dont want to break thing thank you again
You're welcome Kevin. The Ghost intake is too small for a VM22 anyway.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes not if i put the ghost carb on it it a 4hp the carb on the ghost is small
i know it wont be long to we get in to the good stuff like the b/s
@@Deans64 The 5HP Briggs builds are coming Kevin!
@@Deans64 Yes Sir I agree, the Ghost carb should work great on a 4HP Breaks and scrap'em!
I am trying to get the adjustment on my predator, I have adjusted several times and still not getting it correctly. You make it look so easy. Thanl you for the great video.
Hi Gilbert! Hang in there! You can do this. Just follow along with the recommended starting points on jet sizes etc in the description and begin from there. The biggest hang ups for most guys seems to be air leaks. So make sure you don't have any air leaks and go from there. Again, you can do this. It's not magic my friend. I appreciate you!
@KentuckyFriedFixes I have got it pretty good, thank you. I have a question when rev the motor as it is coming down in idle it back fires a little, what could cause that? Thank you in advance for the help.
@@GILSJOURNEY Hi Gilbert! It may be a little lean on the main jet. You'll need to read the spark plug to get it jetted exactly where you need to be. If the plug color at the electrode is Black= Too Rich , White = Too lean, Chocolate brown = Perfect.
Other things can cause a crackle and pop on deceleration too. A bad header exhaust gasket can allow fresh air to enter the exhaust and ignite the exhaust mixture too. But since you're tuning your carburetor it's extremely likely you have a lean air/fuel mix. I'd go up one size on the main jet but it's a good idea to read that plug anyway, to see where you're at. You got this!
@KentuckyFriedFixes I suspected it was running lean. I added 120 main jet and 15 idle jet. I will try to tune it tomorrow since it is raining today. I will remove the plug before I start to tune it again. Thank you for your help.
@@GILSJOURNEY Glad to help! I've decided to do an update video on the VM-22 carbs with some better detail on how to set them up and tune to the engine. This video was basically just an install and tune on this engine but it seems to generate the most questions.
Thanks man! I just swapped the oem exhaust off and i needed to do some carb adjusting for idke. This vm22 is still new to me
The VM-22 is a great little carburetor for the money!
Excellent video
Thanks for the visit!
Thanks! Subscribed!!
Welcome!
Great video, 👍 👌
Thank you!
Next time use a hard surface to take that clip off the needle . To take off and put on . Using anything else will be difficult and defect your clip . I still love your videos . Ty !
I tried that method on the very next one and it works great! Banzhai was right!
Great video, easy to follow and explains the why this happens. Subscribed and hit the bell for future vids. Thanks bud! Going to try this on my gps 22mm mikuni as mine dies when I turn the choke off.
I've not tried a GPS branded VM22, but the design and concept of tuning it should be close to all the other VM22 carbs on the market. Just start with the basic set up on jetting in the description and go from there. Let me know how it goes. Thanks!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes stay away from it. It is garbage, had to go back to a tillotson carb and the buggy runs just fine now.
Thanks for the heads up.
Just blew up my 212cc after installing the carburator.
That can happen. A billet rod is always a good choice over the stockers.
The bob Ross of carburetors
LOL! You're killing me Justin! 🤣🤣🤣
@@KentuckyFriedFixes great video. Very helpful 👌
Answered a lot of questions for me 👍 either someone has messed with the one I just purchased or they're sending them out like this mine has the big pilot and my needle was in notch five black smoke smells nasty bogs idles with choke on dies when choke is off ...I've adjusted my needle I know my intake is sealed my last option is the pilot jet before I put my stock carb back on lol thanks for the info .. subscribed 👍
One of the VM22 carbs I purchased had a # 38 pilot jet that had been drilled much larger by someone. The E-clip on the needle was also in slot # 4 . That pilot was large enough to run it with Methanol. It was very odd, the original main jet was a # 95 if I remember correctly. Nowhere near where I ended up tuning it. Thanks!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes yeah my carb kit was all messed up I had to bore out my intake boot holes because the holes wouldn't allow it to line up my on the rubber gasket on the carb I was gonna just send it back but at the low low price of 29 bucks I just went with it I went ahead and ordered another one in case I destroy this one lol first timer with these mikunas your information really helped 👍it was about to get the eastwing treatment until I seen your video 🤣🤣
Thanks 👍 😃
Love the video, well explained. But I have one question, what jets do I use with these type of carbs 🤷♂️
There are different versions of jets. The different companies that make the VM-22 carbs seem to have their own jet type for their specific carburetor design. You have to match up the jet with a picture to get the correct one when you order. Sometimes you can order the jet kit with the carburetor and they'll fit just fine. Mikuni jets fit some of the VM-22 carbs but not all. The oddball jet sizing is part of the headache you have to deal with if you save money by using the knock off carbs. It's worth it. The VM-22 carbs are great when you get them dialed in and they're around $20 instead of $200+.
Very helpful
Thank you! I appreciate you!
Since you have a plastic bag for your parts. Take those clips off in a bag.. if it yeets.. it should still be in the bag.... another fellow taught me that :)
That's a good idea!
I have a vm22 that needs tuning for sure.
They're not too bad if you start with the basic setup on jets and float setting. I've tried to list a good starting point in the description that will work for most mild engines. If you run into any trouble shoot me an email and we'll swap phone numbers my friend.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes very cool!
Another great video KF, but your write up is the real gold! i opted for a mikuni clone on a new build i am starting on a stage 1+ wildcat 223. If these clones are coming with a 95 or 97 main jet shipped... i kinda feel like that would be about spot on for 8k-11k riding. Maybe #100, but not any more. The stock pilot jet is probably good at high altitude too. You agree with my logic?
Hi Rick sorry for the late reply but this comment was delayed for some reason? The main jet in all the VM22 carbs I've seen has been way too small. Depending on your altitude, you'll need a larger main jet to start out with. Check out the description for suggested starting jet sizes based on approximate altitudes. I would think anything less than 110 would be lean in most places. Pilot jet sizing is much easier than the main jet. The engine doesn't move as much air at idle or low speeds so the pilot jet is not that big of a deal. I'd suggest a pilot jet anywhere from a # 20 to a # 28 would likely work in most cases at multiple altitudes. Keeping in mind, every engine build is different, so every engine will need a specific amount of fuel to run at it's best. In other words, a stock engine won't require as much fuel as a built fire breather. Remember, that idle air adjustment screw will tell you exactly how to size your pilot jet. Once you get the pilot jet correctly sized, the main jet sizing is easy.
Good man! I started with a 105 main here at 5k at my house to tune it, but am bringing along a 110 and 115 to feel the difference at 8k+.
One thing I noticed on my Vm22 clone was how high of a idle gap I have on the slide vs a regular mikuni. Like close to 1/4 of an inch, which surprised me. I think I got your exact clone by luck... where the hell did you find pilot jets for it??
KFF... I did indeed get this same Orevy carb clone. Great minds think alike! Any chance you have a link to those pilot jets you found for them? I struck out on thread matching my first attempt.
When you have a carburetor that has he mixture screw in the bottom in the front,you are controlling the fuel.So turning it out richens it.adds more fuel.When you have a carburetor that has to mixture screw in the back towards the air filter,you are controlling air,so turning it out leans it out.adds more air
Hi James, You're thinking about behind the butterfly (or slide) vs in front of the butterfly (or slide). That's an easy one to confuse on these carbs and causes a lot of misunderstanding. The fact is the air mix screw at the lower front receives atmospheric pressure from the ported passage at the left rear side of the air horn (where the air filter mounts). It's a direct vacuum leak that is controlled by the air mix screw. Turning the air mix screw out or counter-clockwise causes a larger vacuum leak and so leans the mixture that's feeding the engine. I demonstrated how this works in the video by purposely causing a lean condition, then correcting it. There is no fuel adjustment at the air mix screw, only air (a controlled vacuum leak). The only way to adjust the amount of fuel in the circuit is by changing the main jet, idle jet or by raising or lowering the needle in the main jet (emulsion tube).
I think I mentioned this before, maybe not. You have the same length as my mom who is a heavy smoker, I told my wife I bet you this guy smokes then all the sudden I saw the cigarette. I gave up cigarettes seven years ago I was 53. I smoked on and off never smoke more than a half a pack a day but believe me when you stop it’s hard to breathe. in the beginning. For reasons that are hard to explain it Hass to do with the chemicals they put in the cigarettes but after six months brother you feel like a new man
I've tried to throw away the smokes several times. I've cut back but never seem to be able to stop altogether. Smoking is bad for sure! Wish I'd never started.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Well I did forget to add one thing the day they told me I had COPD I quit funny how it took that for me to quit. But because God is so good to me my lungs just got better over the last seven years while my uncle is diagnosed with the same COPD the same year I got diagnosed,we buried him a year and a half ago
Cool story bro
Quick tip handyman ace hardware has replacement clips. They are cheap. Buy a dozen. I loose a clip every other time I work with them.
Everyone working on these Mikuni clone carbs needs a box of those e-clips around for sure! I hate those things!
29:00 cig burnin about half an hour in. 😂😂 I feel that😂20 minutes in I’m like, where’s my tobacco goddamn.❤😂
Nice video. After swapping mikuni carbs to my Honda rebel 450 and not being able to tune them properly I’m wondering if I should get this kit for the predator 212 I have. A couple of questions…
Is there a fuel on/off valve that’s usually installed with these carbs?
Is there a way to still have the zip tied governor arm still work if the governor is still installed in the engine?
Would a billet flywheel have to be used with this carb ?
Hi James! The price is budget friendly on these Mikuni clone carbs. They're not an exact 1:1 clone of the genuine older Mikuni carbs but they're close enough for the price.
A fuel shutoff is a good idea. In case the carb gets some debris in the needle valve.
Regarding the governor, these VM-22 carbs bypass all the governor linkage and work independent of the governor. You could leave the governor linkage in place, but it won't connect to the VM-22 carb. Personally, I like to remove anything governor related from the inside of the engine. Those plastic and metal governor pieces can come apart and destroy a healthy engine.
I always suggest installing a flywheel and connecting rod capable of handling the highest RPM you will turn the engine. It need not be billet, there are options available on the market for the lower cost PVL flywheels and there are those high speed aluminum cheapies that are made the same way chainsaw flywheels are. The cheapie is claimed to have been spin tested from 8K and 10K and withstand that RPM. I've used some of those cheap aluminum flywheels too with no mishaps. *But billet is always the best,* that's why it costs more. The connecting rod should be billet or forged to avoid major damage. Stock rods are usually good to around 6K RPM though. Great questions thanks James!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Thank you for the elaborate response! I will take your advice and upgrade. Thanks!
You can order the real deal mikuni vm22 from summit racing. The air screw well as you can change out the jet from the side of the carburetor very easy access. The pilot screw adjustment is on the side also easy access.
Hi Stephen! No doubt the real deal Mikuni is a MUCH BETTER carburetor. But if you're building one on the cheap, (these cost around $30) the knock off Chinese clone carbs are great for budget builds. Also the part number on the VM22 Chinese Clone carb is a bit misleading, the real Mikuni VM22 venturi size is 22mm, these Chinese clone "VM22s" measure around 26mm. That's a lot of difference on air intake.
Redbeards garage has done a dyno back to back with both and the knock off made 1hp more
Great video! what is the cause of backfiring at around 1/4-1/2 throttle under a load.
Hi Trevor! If it's carb related, a lean mixture can cause that. Check for air leaks and read the plug to see if it needs more fuel.
Hey KFF! Hope all is well. Got a trick question for you on the pilot jetting in that same Orevy VM22 mikuni clone you have in your video here. I pulled mine out, wanting to get more in line with a 17.5 MK pilot... and came to find a keihin #38 pilot jet was actually in the carb I got. Any idea what MK equivalent size this might be?? The bike runs good enough that I am positive it is not a MK 38 (no way it would start IMO) and I know mikuni standards are are flow volumes vs port hole size on the Ks.. Im still thinking it needs to upjet... but was wondering if you have ever bumped into this mix and match scenario? I suppose I could have a return on my hands that someone played with and left some random jet in too... but it has 38 stamped on it plain as day.
Hi Rick! Now that really is a trick question on these Chinese carbs. How do they rate the hole size in relation to the number listed on the jet?
The answer should be: Mikuni clone jet size numbers are based on the numerical value stamped on the jet as being reference to the ID size in decimals of a millimeter. The real answer is they're a mix of the SAE and Metric systems. Some will be in reference to Metric sizing some to SAE sizing and I've heard rumors, (not seen personally) that some are referenced to machine drill sizes! The only way to determine which system is used to identify the jets in your particular carburetor is to measure them. You can use a numbered pin drill bit set and a micrometer or a dial caliper to find out exactly what size yours is. Once you know how your jets are marked, it's easy to identify the system they used though there's no guarantee the stamped number on the jet is correct. My # 38 pilot jet hole was drilled VERY large and nowhere near any point of reference. It was plenty big to run Methanol fuel as it was. It is one of the headaches to overcome when using the Mikuni clone carbs. There are several different factories pumping these out and the designs are non standard. It's not a deal breaker, but it can be a little annoying.
I GOT CARBURETOR JUST LIKE THAT ONE AND IT HAD THE SAME L38 PILOT JET IN IT
I hope your pilot jet was not drilled out oversize like mine was! That thing had a HUGE hole!
Use a magnetic tray lined with beige contact paper. Let’s you see parts easily.
That's a great suggestion! I still like to use a plastic bag though as some of the small parts are nonmagnetic.
Great video!!!! Do you have a preferred link for the carb, jet kit, and intake manifold? Thanks man
Hi, I purchased the carb and intake from Amazon because it included the 10 piece main jet kit. You can find them on Ebay too. The pilot jets are sold separately and you'll need to actually match up your specific pilot jet to the picture when you purchase. One VM22 may have a different pilot jet than another for some reason. I suppose there are multiple manufacturers of the VM22 Chinese carbs. Also it's a good idea to inspect your carb when it arrives to verify it's not damaged or any slide alignment pin missing or broken in the barrel. Thanks!
@Kentucky Fried Fixes yea some of the Amazon ones I see claim to have the wrong sized main jets in there kit. They wouldn't thread in. Didn't know if you knew which to get.
@@lsxjunkie I read those reviews too. I probably ordered from the same place. My main jets were ok and they fit correctly, they did substitute several 125 jets but they claim to have worked out the jet problems now. They don't include pilot jets though. The installed pilot jet was really wrong on mine and was wayyy big. I'm pretty sure my carb was a customer return, it was shipped directly from the amazon warehouse so it's highly likely. The 2nd one I purchased was from Ebay and the listing showed the carb said "Mikuni" on it, but when it arrived it didn't. It's really a roll of the dice on these sellers. I'm working on the $15 PZ-27 now, I have plans for that one if it's any good.
@Remington Steel You should buy a lottery ticket with that kind of luck! None of mine have ever worked right out of the box. Thanks!
@Remington Steel Sounds like you got it tuned in just right!
Hello great video so question to you I just purchased that carb for my 224cc I'm wondering if I should just put a 20 pilot in as well it's stock other than carb and header pipe
Hi Ken! A # 20 pilot jet for gasoline seems to work well in these at most altitudes with stock or mildly built engines. Just remember, after installing the pilot jet and adjusting the air mix screw to the engine's best running setting, shut down and count the number of turns on the air mix screw. If you're somewhere between one to two turns out, that's perfect, just back it out to where it was and you're good to go. A lot of guys get confused about pilot jet sizing but it's not a big deal to tune one of these. A little patience and understanding is all it takes.
NICE EDIT ALSO keeping the backround noise down
Thanks John! It helps me to keep the language on the channel rated "G".
Hello!
I found your video very very informative and i've learned a lot. I am still having trouble starting mine however. It's the same 224 and a genuine VM22. It won't start at all. I've checked air and spark and it is definitely getting both. I double checked to make sure I am not getting an air leak from the spacer and it seems fine. I have adjusted the idle and air/fuel screw, I have tried most everything you have mentioned. I did however lose my plastic gasket for the needle, but I noticed you didn't put yours back in. Will missing the gasket prevent the engine from not starting at all? Where should I set my c clip to troubleshoot again? I haven't even got mine to idle yet. I'm pretty well out of ideas and not sure where to go from here. Any and all advice is appreciated.
edit:
Main Jet: 4/042-100
Pilot Jet: VM22/210-30
Needle Jet: N-8 (257)
Thank you!
- A new subscriber
Hi Chris! I installed the plastic spacer in my carb but they're not required. It will require you to adjust the e-clip on the needle one space lower though. The plastic spacer is an extra adjustment if you run out of adjustment spaces on the needle. By removing the spacer, the needle will sit lower in the main jet (emulsion tube). It may be cutting off your fuel flow completely if you've not reset the e-clip to compensate for the missing spacer. Try adjusting your idle screw so that the slide raises a bit more than it is now and see if it will start. If it does, you'll know the e-clip on the needle needs to be moved down a notch.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes wow thanks for the quick reply! Okay great, I'll try that tomorrow. I've also read that the governor must be removed. I've obviously taken off the old throttle linkage and the governor arm, but not the internal governor. Would that be a possible factor for it not even starting?
@@Chris-me8lt The internal governor won't cause it to not start. Just make sure your kill switch and stuff is working too. It's a good idea to give all the small stuff a quick look, things like valve adjustment, spark, fuel etc. Most of the time it turns out to be a small issue or something that was overlooked that can drive you crazy! You'll get it.
@@Chris-me8lt It IS a good idea to remove the internal parts of the governor if it's been disconnected. You don't really need anything inside your engine that could get into your crankshaft and rod. IMO
Reply to added info from edit: If you don't have any air leaks and the carb is mounted properly your # 100 main jet size looks to be too small. Try a # 125 main. The # 30 pilot jet should be ok. The basic starting set up specs are in the description regarding jet sizes and adjusting for your altitude. Make sure there are no air leaks. This cannot be stressed enough. An air leak will not allow the carb to work or tune properly.
Great view and video... Im having a backfire issue anything you recommend?
Hi D.j. C! When does your engine backfire? Under acceleration? Or during deceleration? Or all the time when it's running?
During deceleration...
Hi D.j.c8836! If it backfires during deceleration it is likely too lean. If you've got the correct size pilot jet already, I'd install one size larger main jet at a time until it stops backfiring. Example: If you currently have a 120 main jet and it's backfiring under deceleration, switch to a 125 main jet and see what it sounds like under deceleration with the larger jet. Remember to also read the spark plug, you want a nice chocolate brown color, not white and not black. You'll get it, you can do this.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Finally got it to stop backfire ...I dont even know how think it was just some bad gas I guess thanks for your reply
@@d.j.c8836 Good deal. I thought you were tuning in a new carb. It's always great when they fix themselves!
Hello,
I have a Predator 212 Non-Hemi with the following modifications:
•6625 Standard Fin Billet Flywheel
•6254 Billet Connecting Rod
•Mod2 Cam-Pred (7000+ RPMs)
•22lb Valve Springs
• DJ-1310P .010" Head Gasket
•3910X Spark Plug
•.570 flat top piston
•Stainless Steel Push Rods
•22mm Mikuni Kit 130 Main/38 Pilot set at 5th position on slide, about 3/4 turns out on A/F screw.
I get a slight lag in acceleration from a dead stop. I’m guessing too rich on the slide and too small on the pilot. Please advise! Great video by the way!
Hi Tenx 757, If your needle is not sitting so the e-clip is in the third position (center) with the plastic washer (spacer) in place, either your jetting is wrong or you have debris in the carb blocking a passage. If your needle is set to the 5th position (richest setting) your jet sizes are likely too lean or again, you have dirt or something in the carb blocking a fuel or air passage. A 38 pilot jet should not be that lean even with your mods, it should be rich at idle even at sea level. Clean the carb 1st. Then I'd check the pilot jet and main jet sizes manually by using a torch tip cleaner to gauge the holes then measure. You may find the jets are not drilled to the proper sizes. If it were me, I'd tune with the E-clip on the center (3rd) position, start with the pilot jet sizing then once you're set at 1 to 1.5 turns, go to the main jet. Usually, if your jetting was correct and then goes wrong the carb is dirty, there's debris or trash in the circuit somewhere. If the carb is new, verify jet sizes and tune, starting with the pilot jet.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Thanks! I’ll dig into it and see what I can come up with!
Ita always better to bolt the engine down to the bike when adjusting. My idling changes a bit when I put it on my bike and had to re set it. So just go ahead and bolt it down first
Great point! The carburetor bowl needs to be level in order to tune it in, if your engine mount is angled you have to adjust the carburetor mounting to make it level.
Great video mines back fired im getting spark and fuel its hard to start
Check for air leaks.
To know if uts tuned properly do a plug chop or see piston wash After a tank.
Yep. I suggest everyone read the spark plug for fine tuning for sure.
Turn the screw all the way in then back it out 3/4 turn and your at a good setting for these small motors
Hi Mike! That's a good performance setting if the jetting is right! I can tell you tend to jet just a little lean. You must be building fire breathers! Thanks!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Running a 38
R
@@KentuckyFriedFixes running a 125 main jet
So which main jet did you use and once again which pilot jet ? I got a 22 mm Makuni and a predator 212 non hemi with a black mamba cam , champion rockers , 26lb springs , chromoly push rods . No work to the head or pidgin . Which jets do you recommend ?
Hi Stone and sticks! I ended up with a # 125 main jet and a # 20 pilot jet with the needle set at the 3rd position (e-clip in the middle) on mine. I'm at 650 feet above sea level. If I wanted mine perfect I'd install about a # 22 pilot jet but it's really close as it is for gasoline. I can richen or lean the idle circuit with a simple adjustment of the idle air screw. Sitting at dead perfect adjustment, my idle air screw is out 1.25 turns (which is just fine for gasoline), perfect would be at 1.5 turns.
Is that float height how it's supposed to be or just what you worked out works best?. I thought the spring was just there as a buffer since the needle will be closed when the float is level with the gasket and any movement in the spring after that is just buffering.
I set mine level with the spring loaded needle compressed. If you set it level without the spring loaded needle compressed, the float level will be high, some may even drip out of the bowl vent at the rear if not set with the spring compressed.
Great video, could you help me please, my Yamaha XT200 has a Mikuni y24p carb, the only way I can get an idle is by screwing the pilot air screw in completely and turning the Idle speed screw all the way in, what could the issue be? The pilot and main jets are correct according to the manual, starts and revs really easily
Hi Chris! The Mikuni Y24p is a little different series carb but from what you're describing, I'd think it needs a good disassembly, soak and cleaning + some pressurized air thru the passages. There may be a dirty passage in there somewhere causing the issue. Remember if everything was running good and it starts to have issues all of a sudden, a dirty or blocked internal passage is most likely the problem. While it's apart you can check to make sure your float does not have a hole in it and for any other small parts issues. The choke enrichment circuit would be worth a close look as well. I once worked on a Mikuni that had a dirt dobber nest clogging the air inlets at the air horn! If it was running fine before, you're gonna find a small issue was causing your headache.
Are you sure that the idle fuel/air screw isn't the other way around: clockwise is leaning it out, counterclockwise is enrichening it? It's a fuel screw if I'm not mistaken by the position of it?
Hi Bram! I know these things can be confusing and there are many videos that will tell you that the idle air mix screw is a fuel flow adjustment, but it's not. The idle air mix screw on the model VM-22 clone controls the amount of air that can enter the fuel circuit. It's really a controlled vacuum leak from a port at the left rear of the carb. I demonstrated on the video that turning it counterclockwise will lean out the carb as it adds more air to the circuit (exactly like a vacuum leak would), turning the idle air mix screw clockwise will allow less air to enter the circuit. It won't add or subtract any fuel from the circuit as it does not control the fuel flow thru the main jet or the idle jet. If you'll think of it as a controlled vacuum leak, you'll be on the right track. It will only add or subtract air from the circuit. I think the reason many get confused is if they have an overly rich pilot jet or main jet, they can seemingly lean out the mix by adding more air from the idle air adjustment. When it starts running better, they think they've adjusted the fuel flow but in reality, they simply added a vacuum leak to the fuel they already had.
I've come to find out that on my 125cc pit bike running 93 ethanol free that the pilot jet must be too small. I've got the air/fuel mixture screw out on 3/4 of a turn and it seems to run best there. It will run ok as well if it's turned in all the way, but you can smell a lot of unburnt gas. At 1.5 turns out it runs but dies when it comes to a stop and at about 2 turns out it has a full throttle backfire. I hope this is making sense to you since I've watched your video 4 times and you describe tunning the clone the best. What's your opinion? Do I need a bigger pilot jet and if so how big? Or can I run it 3/4 turn out and be ok? I really appreciate your time.
*Important* Verify you have followed the basic set up in the description regarding the starting point for your pilot and main jet sizes. These steps cannot be skipped. If you attempt to tune with a factory installed main jet of # 95 or # 98, you'll only be working against yourself. If you've checked to make sure there are no air leaks, you're good on your main jet size and your needle adjustment (e-clip) is in the 3rd slot with the spacer installed, only then you may need to increase the size of your pilot jet. Pull the pilot jet to see what size you have first then you have a few choices. You can enlarge the hole yourself one size at a time (you'll need a pin drill and bits $10) or you can order a jet kit with multiple size pilot jets and just swap out to the next size larger pilot jet one at a time until you get it dialed in. After you get the idle jet tuned in, then you can do some full throttle pulls and read the spark plug to make sure your main jet is still where it needs to be. The perfect setting for the idle air screw is 1.5 turns out when correctly adjusted at best idle speed on a warm engine. 1.25 turns is acceptable for gasoline IMO, but if yours is at 0.75 turns, it's not close enough to run like it should. *There's also the "one shot best guess method" but it's not exactly the best way to go. You can determine the size of your current pilot jet and buy one about 4 to 6 sizes richer. Example: You pull your pilot jet and it's marked "18", you can add 4 to 6 sizes to that and try either a "22" or "24" pilot jet to get you close to the 1.5 turns out on your idle air adjustment.* You'll get it, you can do this. I know these things can be frustrating but remember to go step by step and it'll be tuned in and running great in no time.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes
Excellent. Thanks for the help. That's exactly what I was thinking, but because have the experience, I had to ask and make sure
@@bikerevolutiontv I appreciate the input BRTV! That's what this channel is all about!
Where did you find those pilot jets, or what search terms did you use? I can nowhere find these exact ones..
I need them as well
You should leave a link to where you got your pilot jets, I keep ordering the wrong ones 😑 threads always a tad to big but jets look exactly the same. Be much much appreciated 🙏 im having the same problem u did
I wish I could place a link to the correct pilot jets but the problem is there are more than one type of pilot jets for the VM-22 carburetors. Honestly the only way to get the correct pilot jet for your VM-22 is to physically compare it to a picture of the jet you order. It's almost insanity that someone thought it would be a good idea to have the exact same VM-22 carburetors that require different size thread diameter pilot jets! The only reason I can think of is that there are multiple companies in China making these and they all want to sell their own jets for tuning. I ordered several of these VM-22 carbs from the same link and two had different size pilot jets. It's frustrating!
Thanks for the info what jets did you order
What pilot jets
These VM22 carbs have different jets than the Mikunis and they're also different from one VM22 clone carb to the other. I bought the carb in the link that comes with the 10 piece main jet kit. That sorted the main jets. The pilot jet I had to match up by the picture, no kidding they have at least 2 different pilot jet styles for these clone carbs and to get the correct pilot jet you really have to match your jet to the correct picture. Go Power Sports had the pilot jets I needed at the time. The Jungle site may have some pilots that will work but make sure you look at the picture and match it up when you order.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I have the jet likes your I know for sure that’s why I’m wondering which one you ordered
@@Texas_bikes66 I'm running a 125 main jet in this one and a # 20 pilot. I'm at 650' above sea level.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I’m Also running a 125
Those Chinese 'Mikuni's' look more like a combination of Mikuni and Kei-Hin.
The 'oval' throttle bore is a characteristic of 1960's Kei-Hin, never seen it on a real Mikuni, even very small ones.
Air screws are on the air filter side of throttle slide, screws on engine side of throttle slide are for air fuel mix
It is not an air adjustment, it's a fuel-air mix adjustment.
The further out it is, the richer you get.
The float isn't spring loaded, the shut off valve has a spring to compensate for vibration.
I looked at the Mikuni tuning PDF, it shows an air screw which operates the exact opposite to a fuel-air mix screw
Hi Crazypj! These knock off carbs are based on the Mikuni design but they're not exactly the same carburetors. Modern Mikuni carburetors have much different fuel and air adjustment circuits than these. In the description of the video I specified *"Spring loaded needle valve" to clarify my comments in the video. My videos are not scripted and sometimes I use local common terminology, but I do try to catch it and post clarification in the video descriptions.
The Keihn carbs and their knock offs have an air/fuel mix adjustment but these don't. It can be confusing and this sometimes leaves guys scratching their heads. The VM-22 clone carbs only have the air mix screw which is really just a controlled vacuum leak. The further it is turned out, the larger the vacuum leak. I proved this in the video by intentionally creating a lean condition in this carburetor by using the air screw. This carburetor was properly jetted to the engine and if yours is properly jetted you'll be able to repeat the exact same condition as I did in the video with a VM22.
Be careful though if you're trying out the clone carbs, the knock off Keihn carbs do have that air/fuel mix screw, so when its turned out more fuel is added to the circuit on those. Those do work opposite of the VM22 clone carbs. Thanks!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Hi, I've been working on stuff like this since around 1968, which is why I described the 'Mikuni' as a composite, possibly to avoid patent infringements or paying royalties? I'm still 'playing' with various 1970's bikes, particularly Honda CB360 and Yamaha XS650, none of which are stock (I like modifying engines, 360's get 378cc and XS, around 800cc)
@@1crazypj I would guess you're exactly right. There's some way they've avoided paying production fees and the small changes is very likely the reason.
I love the CB360's! I bought a "mechanic's special" back in 1985. It just needed a cam chain. I bet I rode that thing a couple hundred miles a day! Mine had a little vibration at the foot pegs as I remember but it never gave me a single mechanical issue! Traded it in for a '76 GL1000 Gold Wing after a couple years of daily trouble free rides.
I never owned the Yamaha 650 twin but have an Uncle that put a 650 twin on his Garden tractor puller. It was usually the top puller in the 1200 open. He used to rib me about beating the 750 Honda engine tractors (like mine had) LOL!
It's good to see somebody that appreciates the old stuff! Thanks for the input and discussion. I appreciate you! This channel is a little different than others so I welcome and encourage subscribers to feel free to post links to their videos and channels if they want. Best Chris
Did u turn the air gas screw in all the way before u did the 1 and a half turned
The Air screw is first closed completely (gently just until it stops) then backed out 1.5 turns to begin tuning. Hopefully, you'll end up around the same position once the idle jet is sized correctly, but be sure to read the description. I've added a ton of info there as this video was just a quick install and tune that has attracted more attention than I ever intended. By counting the turns of the air screw (after initial running adjustment) you can determine if your idle jet needs to be larger or smaller and change it out accordingly.
Another question for you. Is the pilot jet supposed to have a hole all the way through the center or just the holes on the end? This carb was so plugged up that I just can't tell if it's plugged or not. Thanks
Hi Bob! Great question! All my pilot jets have had a hole all the way thru the center of the jet and there's also quite a few holes drilled in the side. It kinda works as a jet and an emulsion tube combination for fuel distribution. Those things do plug up. I use a torch tip cleaner on mine and it works great. I've heard of guys having to use the micro drill bits to clean out a plugged pilot before too. Just keep in mind when you clean it out most of the pilot jets have a smaller hole near the end that's slotted for a flat screwdriver. The upper part that looks like an emulsion tube will usually be larger on the ID than the bottom of the jet.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I figured that was the case but I didn't want to push through if it wasn't supposed to go all the way through. Thanks
@@bobwright992 Better safe than sorry! Thanks Bob!
FYI I bought the same carb and it too had the clip on that notch so maybe they’re just built like that for some reason
I guess it depends on who assembled the carb? I have found the e-clip installed in different locations on different carbs, but all came from the same place where I ordered. It's possible they may change the position depending on which main jet is installed at the factory. Some of mine included # 98 main jets and others were # 95. I expected plenty of issues with these because of the price though so far nothing major. It's important to remember that I suggest starting in the 3rd notch, then jetting the pilot and main jets to work with the needle in that 3rd notch. That way you have room for adjustment one way or the other for altitude or track conditions. Thanks!
This guy sounds like the narrator of the Mr. DNA video in the original Jurassic Park movie.
I think Mr DNA sounds much cooler!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes nah man you're cooler for sure! Awesome vid, very helpful explanations and also very obvious you have experience with these things. Thank you!!
Did you end up removing the 125 jet and replacing with a smaller one?
Hi DIRT COAST! I love that name! As it turned out the 125 jet was not causing the rich condition on this carb. The black smoke from the overly rich condition turned out to be caused by 2 things. First an extremely large pilot jet that had been drilled to the point it would have easily started and idled on Methanol. I don't have any way to gauge the actual size of the old pilot jet I removed but I did run my largest torch tip cleaner (.062) completely thru the jet and it didn't touch the sides! So I know it's much larger than .062 whatever it is. Second, someone had set the slide needle in the 4th position from the top either at the factory or more than likely this carb was a customer return IMO. This setting was much too rich and allowed fuel to pass thru the main jet/emulsion tube of the carb and flood the engine even at idle. After those 2 issues were corrected the 125 main jet seems to be fine at 650 feet above sea level with this engine parts combination. Of course if I change anything on the engine like adding a larger camshaft or a big valve head it'll likely need more fuel. At my altitude a ball park main jet size of 120 to 135 usually works well for gasoline. The lower end for gasoline and the higher end for heavier Race Gas. Thanks!
I cant get mine to run at all with the choke plunger down. If its up, it runs pretty darn good. I assumed being up it would have the enrichment circuit on (These dont really have a choke) but maybe Im wrong. I dont know. I do know its needs some jetting. Im just running it on a stock 212.
You are correct about the choke being an enrichment circuit and when the plunger is up the choke is on. All it does is add more fuel. If your engine will only run with the choke on I'd check to make sure there are no internal or external air leaks at the carburetor/intake mounting flanges (vacuum leaks) using some carb spray. After confirming there are no air leaks, then try some larger jets. I have some suggested starting jet sizes based on your approximate altitude in the video description. I'm at 650' above sea level so for this engine in the video I used a # 125 main jet and a # 20 pilot jet. You can do this.
The screw on the inside I believe the pilot screw. Is tat supposed to be all the way in or out some turns?
Hi Bob! If you mean the pilot jet that's inside the float bowl, the jet has to be tight. If you mean the idle air adjustment screw on the outside located lower front on the underside of the carburetor, that one should be adjusted as per the video.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I was referring to the One in the bowl. Thanks
do u know if i can run the vm22 str8 to the motor without that cool adapter good vid btw way i see u have a gasket between the adapter an the carb
Sorry AC, the VM22 carburetor will not bolt up to the head without the intake. They're around $20 online so not too bad. That intake for the Tillotson carbs is $50! Now that strains my pocket book!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes yes found me a cool purple one its under fire hot racing performance intake pipe air filter 212cc (purple) lol exact description hey i just posted a vid on our Fan favored Ducar so my throttle setup on the stock carbwent so i ened up taking off the valve cover and our there supposed to be 2 lock nuts on the valve rods ????
@@Spacecruizer203 I'll check out the new video now AC! The Ducar Hemi rockers have a lock nut and an adjusting nut on the tips. Just loosen the lock nut on top to move the adjustment then lock it back down. It's a pain, and it can be frustrating to get them set correctly, but stick with it, you'll get it.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes thank u KFF I'm looking at these stabilizers at the local gas station tryna see what to put with this 93 gas it will be my first start back from my hyadis
@@Spacecruizer203 Hi AC! Naptha and or Xylene or Toulene paint thinners work pretty good too. It's a whole science to itself on mixing race gas. If you add too much, you burn your piston. Safest bet to add weight to your fuel is to use 93 gas and some synthetic 2 cycle oil.
I usually can’t get it to start without it running high. So then the first thing I need to do is tighten the idle screw and get it as low as possible before I start messing with the air adjustment? Or do I adjust the air screw with it running high RPM and then bring it down with the idol screw?
Hi Gordon! When the engine is cold and the choke is applied (plunger is up just like the video) for the first cold start, the engine RPM will likely be higher because the choke is applied. Let the engine come to operating temperature (so it will run without the choke) and set the idle speed as low as you can without the engine dying. It's always a good place to begin with the air mix screw set at 1.5 turns out before the first start. After the engine is warm and you've set the idle speed low, then you can begin to adjust the air mix screw. You want to turn it no more than one quarter turn at a time and listen to the engine. If you're going in the right direction, the engine idle will increase after a few seconds. Again set the idle speed to low idle and continue to fine tune the air mix screw. When the engine idle speed does not increase or it begins to lower, that's as close as you're going to get it, back it up to where it was running good and you are where you need to be. Stop the engine and count the number of turns it takes to close the air screw. This will tell you if you need a larger or smaller pilot jet, or if the pilot jet is perfect as it is. Less than 1 turn out, the pilot jet is too small. More than 2 turns out the pilot jet is too large. You want to start with and hopefully end at 1.5 turns out. 1.25 turns out is acceptable as is 1.75 turns, the spec is between 1 and 2 turns out so 1.5 is perfect for gasoline fuel. It takes a little time to get the hang of it, but you will. Don't get frustrated, you can do this.
THANKS! I’m loving this. I’m at the local bike shop picking up jets now. I bought this carburetor for all the boys in my neighborhood so I’m sure I’ll have it licked soon enough. This video is solid gold.
What part of Kentucky I’m from lex, have the same setup and same motor and my carb won’t work, I broke in the motor the proper way as it says too before Installed it and adjust what you did with needle noses and won’t fire now
Hi Jamie! I'm over in the Central KY area near Cave City (Mammoth Cave region) I used to live in Lexington many years ago. I ran an Auto Repair shop over on Rosemont Gardens, "Rosemont Auto Repair" back then. Good times.
If you're having a starting issue first check to make sure you have spark. If you have spark, check for air leaks where the carb mounts to the intake. Most of the time if there's a starting issue with these VM22 carbs, it because of an air leak. The carb has an O-ring that must seal on the intake or it won't start in most cases. Verify the throttle slide is installed correctly all the way into the bore and works up and down with the throttle properly. It has an alignment pin in the carb barrel that correspond with a slot n the slide (the slot the throttle cable installs thru), it will only fit all the way down into the bore properly one way. You should be good with a # 20 or larger Idle jet and a # 125 to # 135 main jet at your altitude (Lex KY). Set your Idle air adjustment screw at 1.5 turns out for the first start up, then make the fine adjustments on the Idle Air screw after it's running/warmed up. It's always a good idea to give it the once over and check the little things to make sure everything is as it should be. Stuff like air leaks at the carb, spark plug, valve lash, timing key etc. Don't let it get you frustrated. Most of the time it's something small that has been overlooked. You can do this, I know you'll get it.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I'm at the same sea level as you, what main jet did you end up using? Or what main jet should I use with the same exact engine, carburetor, and head pipe?
Yes I literally have the same set up besides any internal engine work but I've been scratching my head along trying to tune this thing. From watching this video I see that you're a real wizard carb tuner and you definitely explain in depth how to do things. I didn't read or hear you talking about what main jet was used in this video please advise fresno, CA.
I used the # 125 main jet on mine with a # 20 pilot. Seems to work great for this engine combo at 650 feet above sea level. (The 265 camshaft is pretty mild and this one still has the stock size valves) My idle air mix screw is 1.25 turns out. I could go up a bit on the pilot jet if I wanted it to be absolutely perfect at 1.5 turns out, but it's just fine for race gas as it is. If this was a Methanol engine I'd change to a larger pilot jet so that the the Idle Air mix screw was set between 1.75 and 2 turns out after final carb adjustments.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes this makes my life so easy THANK YOU! 😊 🙏 subscribed.
@@icardenas3909 You're very welcome. Thanks for the support. 👍
@@KentuckyFriedFixes hey i appreciate any help. I used the same jet that you reccomended with 1.5 turns out on the air fuel screw and it's running strong when at full throttle but not so great when 1/4 throttle. it chokes out and I have a hard time warming it up without shutting off. I'm not so smart when it comes to tuning this thing. I'm at 308 feet elevation. Please help I can still ride it but it's not a joy anymore the way the stock carb used to be it's actually worse. 😢
What kind of gasket do you have between the carburetor and manifold? My carb has an o-ring and it seems like the o-ring alone with no gasket works fine for a lot of people but my engine will only run with the choke on and i suspect that I have a vacuum leak. I'm thinking about either making a gasket or globbing on some permatex motoseal, but I don't know if I should remove the o-ring if I go that route...
Hi ilm28403! I used the o-ring gasket on the carb with the plastic carb spacer that comes in the carb kit. The spacer has an o-ring too. I've noticed many people have sealing issues and vacuum leaks if they do not use that spacer. It's probably discarded by most but that black plastic spacer is a very important part that helps align the carb with the intake. It also works as an isolator in addition to helping line up the carburetor to the intake properly. If yours does not have that black plastic spacer, you should consider getting one for it. It's very difficult to install the carb without a vacuum leak if you are missing that spacer.
@Kentucky Fried Fixes Thank you! I actually ordered 2 vm22 knockoffs, each from a different supplier. One of them says Mikuni on the casting and the other does not. Neither came with the plactic carb spacer. Go figure...I guess I'm going to try to fabricate something
@@ilm28403 You should be able to locate a spacer on the jungle site.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes do you know which way the oring has to face? should the oring face the manifold or face the oring on the carb? Thanks
@@zombiebloodsparkle1 The intakes I use on these VM22 installs includes a small black plastic isolator. This isolator also has an O-ring and I recommend using that little black spacer between the carb and the intake. The O-ring mounts in the carb body and points toward the intake manifold. The isolator (black spacer) also points the O-ring toward the intake manifold. Easy to remember, the O-ring always points toward the intake manifold. If you use the little plastic spacer (isolator) just don't have the O-rings touching each other and you'll be good to go. It's important to use the isolator, some guys omit that and bolt the carb directly to the intake without it. That's where they start running into vacuum leaks and misalignment. You'll get it right.
Hey where were you able to find your jets? The smallest I’m able to find is #32
Hi Ivan! I've ordered handfuls of jets from Amazon and only a few were correct. I've also ordered idle jets from go power when they had them in stock. I don't know if they still have them available or not? EC Carburetors is another source. I've found at least two different types of jets for the VM-22 idle jets. So compare your jet style to the picture when you order or you may get the wrong one. I swear it's almost easier to plug the stock jet and re-drill it with a pin drill. Good luck!
What groove did you set on the needle on ?
Hi Don! I like to set mine so the e-clip is in the third groove down from the top of the needle. With the little plastic spacer in place at the bottom of the needle during install. About the little plastic spacer: That little spacer is important to keep in place as it's an extra adjustment. Some guys remove the spacer and that's ok but remember, it will change your actual needle height position by 1 notch.
the carbs used to come with pilot and main jets , now they just come with main jets . I have been looking for pilot jets for 2 carbs for 2 weeks , the 38 pilots are way rich on a 196cc minibike
The kits I order from the jungle site include a set of main jets but not the idle jets. They really should offer a kit that includes the idle jets too. I've ordered handfuls of wrong size idle jets. I order mine from gopowersports, though they don't sponsor the channel. They list them with a pic of the actual jet so you can compare yours and order the right one. I've found there are two completely different idle jet designs for these VM-22 carbs. They will not interchange. It can be frustrating but that's part of the cheap price deal on the VM-22 carbs. Thanks!
You mentioned the mist coming back out the mouth of the carburetor, is this something you are looking to have or not have on these small carbs? I currently have what I would consider a lot of spray back when revving the engine.
Hi Zach, the mist coming back thru the carb at high RPM is actually caused by the overlap of your camshaft. It's a good thing. The finer and lighter the mist, the better the fuel/air mix your engine is receiving. Everyone I know has always called it "fogging" when talking about an engine that's making a full throttle run/pull and running as it should. You won't see it thru an air cleaner but it's still there. You'll see it more often at garden tractor pulls as most of those guys run a velocity stack on the carb instead of an air filter. When you're engine is right, you'll have a foggy mist that's just a vapor, if your engine or carb is not right, you'll have fuel droplets mixed in with that mist and so not as much (fog). If that makes sense.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes great info!! Thank you! I’m new to the smaller engines as well as the 4 stroke scene. I do run velocity stacks on my 2 stroke sleds but we do not see this “fog” so it had me concerned. I do not have room to run a pod filter on the carb like you have set up on this. I have the motor in my sons 120 snowmobile and the carb is too close to the chassis so I will be running a screen. That being said, I saw the moisture hitting the chassis, I always placed my hand in the “fog” and had the smell of gas, so it had me wondering if I had a back-pressure of some sort going on as 2 strokes have reeds which stop that. Thank you again! Always a great help!
it's called reversion.
What altitude are you at and does it effect things?
I'm at 650' above sea level here in Central KY and absolutely yes, altitude affects carb jetting. Some heavier fuels can make that effect worse as well. The closer you are to sea level, the bigger the jet required. Same applies when you're at higher elevations, the higher you go in elevation the smaller jetting is required. Atmospheric Pressure relates to engine building in a big way. I have some recommended jet sizes for the VM-22 to start out with in the description. They're just ball park main jet sizes to allow you to start the tuning process. The idle jet is much easier to get right as the engine doesn't move as much air at idle speeds. Great question!
did you have remove the governor on this engine prior to installing this carb?
Hi Nathan! The VM-22 carb will bypass the governor controls completely. I always remove the internal governor from performance engines since it's not used. Those internal plastic governor pieces can come apart and wreck the inside of the engine. Don't forget whenever you bypass the governor to add the much needed performance parts like a good flywheel and connecting rod. (Stock cast iron flywheels are not rated above 3600RPM, and stock rods can fail anytime you reach 6K RPM or more.) There are some decent aluminum flywheels now on the market for around $35 that have been spin tested to 8500+ RPM, but of course, billet is better. Same goes with connecting rods, a decent billet or forged rod usually runs around $75.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes thanks for the info!
In front of slide is fuel behind slide is air
Hi Greg! If you mean the brass Idle Air mix adjustment screw on the front underside of the VM22 carb, it allows air to come in thru a drilled passage at the back of the carb. This creates a direct but adjustable vacuum leak for adjustment. Opening up the brass adjustment screw allows more air to the engine (a controlled vacuum leak). This makes the engine run lean. Closing it off stops the extra air from entering the circuit and the engine runs richer as it no longer has as much of a vacuum leak.
Hey man I've got a 224 with a vm22 Amazon carb on it and I can't get it to start whatsoever, put the bigger main jet in it that came with it #120 but didn't come with any pilot jets and the one that's in it doesn't have a size on it but I'm positive it's to small. Do you think the pilot jet could be the reason I can't get it to start?
Hi Anx! It sounds like the # 120 main jet should be big enough to get you started. Make sure you have prepared the carburetor according to the description before putting it on the engine. The pilot jet is very important but it needs to be running first so you can tell by the adjustment screw whether you need more or less pilot jet. Usually the factory pilot jets on these are larger than you need. Most of the time when you run into starting issues for the first start, it's caused by either an air leak (vacuum leak) where the carb mounts to the intake manifold, or the slide is not installed into the bore correctly. Verify the slide is installed all the way into the bore of the carb and you can move it up and down with the throttle. Verify the carburetor is aligned with the intake manifold and the internal O-ring is not sitting to one side or the other. Once everything is verified in place, spray a shot of carb cleaner down the throat of the carb and see if the engine starts. If it starts then immediately dies, you may have a fuel supply issue. Verify the carb fuel bowl has fuel and the float level is set correctly.
The main thing to remember is don't panic. It's not voodoo or magic, you can do this. One step at a time until you get it where you want it. Again, you can do this.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes already done everything you described just wanted to make sure it was the pilot jet
I'm not to sure with carb and minibiie engine but is it a good sign if theres white smoke sitting in the carb when I off the engine?
Hi GTA! If you have a light vapor coming from the bore of your carb when the hot engine has just turned off, check your float level. You want to make sure it isn't set too high and leaking fuel into the port causing that issue. Check for any fuel in the engine's oil too. A small brief puff of white vapor would be normal as any unused gas evaporates from the port after a warm engine shuts down, but not continuously if you know what I mean, like fuel dripping into the hot port after the engine is no longer running. If there's no gas in the oil you're probably fine. It never hurts to check the small things though (needle and seat, float level, fuel in the oil, etc). IMO Being paranoid about some stuff is sometimes a good thing and saves engines, if it turns out it was nothing at least you'll know everything related is fine.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes thankyou so much good info and spot on thankyou again and thankyou for helping me and others!!
Hey buddy!! Where did you get those jets for the vm knock off????!!?? Ive been looking everywhere!!! Amazon does not carry them. I looked every where!!! Pls and ty
Hi Greybuilt! That's one of the headaches of the VM-22 clone carbs, finding the correct style pilot jet. The main jets are easy to come by and I usually buy the "kit" that includes 10 main jets with the carb and accessories. The pilot jet is another issue though and I literally have handfuls of wrong pilot jets I've ordered for these. (Most of the wrong jets either fit a real Mikuni or the PWK style carbs) I have found there are two completely different pilot jet designs in these VM-22 carbs. Since the VM-22 design is not an exact copy/replica of the Mikuni, the Mikuni jets don't fit. You'll need to physically remove your pilot jet and match it up to the correct style with the picture of the listing. I've found that only one retailer I know of actually puts the picture of the exact part in their descriptions and that's Gopowersports. They don't sponsor the channel and I don't usually advertise for anyone for free. But I'll leave this up until you get the message.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Ty bud ! Appreciate it 🙏🏻
Do you have to have the internal governor removed to use one?
Technically, the internal governor would not have to be removed, but it would be disconnected from the carb linkage and would not govern the engine speed. The problem would be the linkage to the carburetor. The VM22 uses a slide that works directly with a throttle cable, so there's no linkage where you could hook your governor into, it would be bypassed completely though still installed in the engine block.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes is that bad? I just ordered one and i was wondering if i needed to remove my governor
@@trymeofficial276 You can leave the internal governor in place but I do prefer to remove them personally. I don't like extra stuff around my cam and rod that could come apart while running at high RPM. The governor gear is plastic and if you remove the governor arm up top, only a small pin keeps the shaft from falling into and destroying your engine.
I have a question. New 4 stroke engine. Starts easy when cold and idles stable. Can ride around at 1/4 throttle or less. Opening more than 1/4 and I get really bad stuttering for 3 second and then it clears and revs normal. I tried all main jets from 110 up to 140 and it's reason same. Needle clip if in the middle. Air filter on or off same deal. Is this a needle height issue I'm having? Or should I drop idle jet lower?
Hi JR! If you have all the air leaks sealed and the float level is good, it's likely just a jetting or needle position issue. First I'd pull the spark plug and have a look. It's difficult to know which way you need to go without reading the plug. White is too lean black is too rich, chocolate brown is what you want on the plug. The Idle jet determines low speed fuel but as you can see in the video, the main jet and needle position can have an affect on the low speed as well. So keep them in mind if it starts to get frustrating. Sometimes you may accidently work against yourself.
For a dead spot in the throttle, I would guess the idle jet may be a bit small. Remember from the video how to determine if your pilot jet is too small or too large on the VM-22 by counting the number of turns on the air screw and adjust pilot jet size by that method. It's really important to get the right pilot jet size first. Then you can work on the main jet and needle adjustments.
You can try a needle adjustment before you change out the main jet. Just move the e-clip on your needle down one notch at a time and see if that helps correct the issue. If it's currently in notch 3, try moving to notch 4 , if that doesn't help try notch 5. (or if it's too rich you can move it to slot 2 or slot 1) The needle adjustment can compensate for small error in main jet size. (this is mainly for small adjustments when riding at different altitudes) The real story is told by the spark plug. White is too lean, black is too rich. You need to jet for a nice chocolate brown color on the plug.
Remember* When you have it tuned correctly and properly adjusted, the VM-22 air mix screw will be between 1 and 2 turns out. (1.5 is perfect) . The e-clip on the needle will be in the 3rd position and the main jet will be sized so the plug is a nice chocolate brown with no backfire during deceleration. You can do this. Just hang in there.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes ok so can i leave out the main jet and just put int he pilot until i get the pilot sorted? how would i check the plug when just using the pilot jet would i let it idle for 10 minutes then check it or do i need to rev it to 1/4 throttle right below where it would stall because the main jet isnt installed and then cut the engine and check?
@@warrenpeas There's a few suggested jet sizes in the description to start tuning with.
For a mild built engine at 650' above sea level, my 224 used a # 20 pilot jet and a # 125 main jet. Adjust air screw at idle. Follow the video on how to determine whether the idle jet is rich or lean. After you get the idle jet sized, then go after the main jet sizing. That one you'll check the plug after running it at 1/2 throttle for a bit. (Short ride or long enough to color the plug so you can read it)
Bob Ross tuning a carb 👍
Now that's funny. Thanks Anne!
Hi does this direct fit into the 224? You don’t have the bore the holes that bolt directly to the motor? I have a mikuni carb from a 196 vm22 26mm and wondering if it’ll work
You'll need the intake manifold. The carburetor will not bolt directly to the head. The intake manifold has the mounting pattern for the carb on one end and the mounting pattern on the other end fits the head.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes any link to that at all
@@sgthgr8jr13 The link to the carb and intake is at the top in the description. I think they're around $35 now for the whole kit. Incudes the VM22 carb, intake manifold, gaskets, mounting hardware and an air filter. Oh. and a set of main jets too!
Never dropped the video on how to tune that pz carb!
That's true! I figured those would not be very popular as they're some of the cheapest of the cheap. They do have some advantages over the VM-22 carbs though! I may get some footage setting one up for an engine next time. Thanks for the great idea!
So I'm a rookie when it comes to this stuff, I just bought that same carb for my mini bike and it came with two hoses coming off the port to the side and the bottom, I noticed yours didn't have any on it, what are those ports for, and do they need to be hooked up to anything?
Hi Michael! We're all rookies! Sometimes your new carb will include a new fuel line and a new drain line. The port on the bottom of the float bowl is just a drain. If you'll notice, off to the side of the drain line port on the bottom of the bowl there's what looks like an adjustment screw. It's the drain valve. You turn that one out counterclockwise if you want to drain the fuel bowl. (Like for Winter storage or to drain water out of the carb if you laid your bike down in a creek or something) The little hose is just there to direct the drain flow away from your engine. The inlet on the top left side of the carb is your fuel inlet. That's where you'll need to install your fuel line from the gas tank. Don't be intimidated by these carbs. They're just a little different than what you're probably used to. Once you get used to them and how they work, you'll swear by 'em!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes thanks alot that makes sense. There is another port on the side of the carb next to the fuel inlet that had a hose on it also, maybe vacuum line? Does that need to be hooked up?
@@michaelperry7827 Hi Michael! If you'll look at 00:24 on the video and pause it there, you'll get a good look at the side of the VM22 clone carburetor. The brass looking pipe sticking up toward the rear is the fuel inlet. The little aluminum part of the carb casting just below the choke linkage is an overflow passage. Most guys don't use a hose on those but of course you can if you wish to. All it does is allow atmospheric pressure to the fuel bowl like a vent and in case of an emergency, provides a place for fuel to spill out of the bowl for a situation like if you were to lay the bike down on its side. Most guys just leave it open but it could come in handy to direct any spilled fuel away from the engine of course in the event the bike gets laid on its side. IMO, if installed on a Kart, it's not really needed as it's unlikely you'll lay a kart on its side but if installed on a mini bike, yea why not hang a hose on there just in case.
pls, help me! is it okay if my VM22 only gets settled in about 5 rounds? screw head (mixture air/fuel) sticks way out of its little house/hole
On the Air/Mixture screw, more than 2 full turns to close the adjustment screw, your pilot jet is too large. Less than 1 full turn to close the adjustment screw, your pilot jet is too small. Rejet and repeat. To me the perfect setting is 1.5 turns out 1.25 is ok for gasoline. Make sure you do not confuse this adjustment with the idle adjustment screw on the side, that's a different story and 5 times out on that one is not an issue.
Hi i installed the same carb on my 125 Grom replica bike, i have been playing with adjusting the screws back and forth and have it idling great, but as soon as i give it gas it bogs down, any ideas what i should change or do
Hi Tyler, you'll probably need to check your jet sizing. Check out the description for the approximate jet sizes to start out with for your altitude. Most of these carbs come with a very small main jet that won't work for anyone unless they're on top of Mount Everest.