Your records deserve the best restoration process. A visit to PVF | vinyl | records | restoration
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
- Do you want to hear your records sound the best they possibly can? Then follow along in today's video and our visit to Steve Evans, proprietor of Perfect Vinyl Forever, a Milwaukee, Wisconsin based professional record cleaning business.
I have been using PVF for the last 4 years and couldn't imagine anything better to treat my records to. Steve takes us through his carefully engineered record restoration process and you get to witness all the machines he has built from the ground up to facilitate this process.
If you aren't familiar with Steve or PVF, here are a few videos to watch:
• Debunking record clean...
• Perfect vinyl forever ...
00:00 Intro
03:51 Steve Evans intro
06:53 Mounting records to be cleaned
11:04 To shrink or not to shrink?
24:35 Disaster Recovery… a process - DR 2.0
27:27 Off to the main restoration tank they go! - PVF 4.0
28:46 Technology…
Thanks for watching the video a visit to PVF!
#music #vinyl #records #HiFi #audio #analog #restoration #processing #cleaning #transformation - Hudba
Very informative, not only the video, but @Steve-PerfectVinylForever 's responses to questions posed in the comments. I gather Steve that you're results oriented and that while you've put together a streamlined process with purpose-built machines that allow you to bulk load and move each spindle of records through the each step, you don't place a priority on the number of records you can process in a day. I respect that. The ultra-low RPM, coupled with what appears to be three concentric rings of different frequency trandsucers suggests more of a "low and slow" approach, which I totally appreciate. Being one who also does woodwoorking (and has the cleaning station set up in the shop), the analogy of successively fine sandpaper grits resonates here. Having only a 120Khz machine to work with, and a sink where I can do a lot of pre-cleaning, I can't say I attain your results, but my experience to date made my ears perk up at many things you've said . . . that surfactants have their place, but are difficult to remove & thus far more time is necessary to rinse than to clean (in cases such as mine) . . . That a multi-step process that addresses surface contamination and the top of the groove first is more effective . . . that anyone who has a genuine key from a Playboy Club is worth getting to know better . . . and finally that while 120 Khz just *might* be able to *almost* do what your much higher frequency does, you're likely to find a Degritter MKiII is going to take 4 passes of 4 rotations each before the stylus even begins to totallly contact the real groove. That's certainly been my experience, anyway. Steve, I get that a lot of the knowledge you've gained has come through experience, but given this is absolutely not your day job, I do wonder how you came to know so much about how US works and to design and either manufacture yourself or have manufactured for you all the purpose built equipment. I'd love to talk to you at some point - if you ever have the time.
Just got my first 16 records back from PFF. The increased clarity and detail were astounding. I will be a repeat customer. I appreciate this type of service being presented as a way to increase the enjoyment of vinyl listening.
Yay!!! Nice. Happy to hear you are enjoying your records anew! I had the same experience…
I’m thrilled you are thrilled with the outcomes of our optimization process! I sincerely appreciate you trying our services and look forward to being of service to you, your records and listening experience in the future.
I emailed PVF with a question, and they never responded. Not even months later. I don't know what to make of that... Since you've used their services, I'd like to ask you: did the labels on your records show any signs of water? PVF uses water (mixed with some solutions) during the cleaning process, and my main concern is that water may damage the paper labels on the records. I've watched videos of their cleaning process, and I see they use label protectors. These protectors supposedly seal off the label area, but I wonder how tight that seal is. Is it likely that water may still seep under the protectors?
I’ve used the process twice. On both occasions, I saw no evidence of damage or bleed through onto the center portion of the record.
That Babe Russin album with the tiger on the cover is oh so smooth jazz sax very good album
Thanks Danny for increasing the value of my Lonnie Liston Smith 😅 records. Those Tots look pretty lonely back there. Soaking for 12 hours that's radical. He takes better care of the records than anyone. Much respect. Greg
Hahahahaha niiiiiiice . He’s amazing! Thanks Greg!
A good soak before cleaning. A simple idea and very effective. Great episode Danny
Indeed. There are three factors that affect the cleaning of anything - time, temperature and physical removal (scrubbing, agitation, cavitation, etc.). Most record cleaning processes don’t leverage time which is the lowest risk of the three factors.
Incredible to say the least
Seriously impressive operation!
Thanks Danny, enjoyed that. Wow! Submerging the whole record like that gave me the heeby geebies! I'm surprised there isn't a physical intervention like a soft brushing of the record. Cavitation can only do so much to dislodge. Cheers
He does wipe the records off before placing them onto the spindles - you see that during the opening part of the tour ... also, I'm not aware of brushes that are 0.7-0.5 microns thin to actually get into the grooves... cavitation does. Cheers!
Realy nice i need a copany like this in Europe!
Vicoustic is a European company... they are Portuguese...
Thanks for the video! Just ordered a box of 16…. And nice to see him using Vandersteen speakers!
Very cool! Let us know how you like the process!!! Thanks for tuning in!
I have Vandersteens for my reference system too! Time and phase coherence are an absolute must for my systems.
@@Steve-PerfectVinylForeverI’ve now had almost 50 records optimized and the results are outstanding, far beyond my expectations. Steve’s system transcends what we know about or consider when cleaning records despite the method, whether that be your Degritter or Klaudio- I’ve used both, and Steve’s system goes deeper and produces a more musical result. This is optimization of the vinyl record playback experience and I’d go a step further: Steve’s process is one of excavation, i.e., he’s getting down to bedrock vinyl, producing results I’ve only heard via lacquer or master tape. It’s that good! All sonic attributes are profoundly enhanced and there is the experience of the noise floor being dramatically lowered. The only other time I’ve been so dumbstruck after being so skeptical was when I began using HRS isolation equipment. With Steve’s vinyl optimization service, he joins the hi-fi audio pantheon. Do yourself a favor and give it a try. Thanks Danny for highlighting this extraordinary service!
i own a Zenith Ultrasonic cleaner as well, that is awesome that he has that. they are made in the USA and high grade stainless steel as well
Agree! Zenith makes the best packaged, industrial cavitation cleaners available. They are the only TRUE MULTI-FREQUENCY units available, defined by dedicated generators and transducers for each frequency. Other multi-frequency units rely on resonate frequencies of the transducers which are borderline ineffective.
the customer service at their plant in NJ is really good i purchased mine used it was in a government lab and when I got it i sent it in to be checked over and calibrated i have 40khz and 80khz separate units well also use a simco ionizer gun and fan unit with a compressor for static i love your lab i have a 3 stage water filter and deionizer tank for clean water also use distilled as well plus a myriad of surfactants, alconox Sporicidin for molds plus VPI cleaners its fun 👍 My thanks to you and Patrick the vinyl archivist for sharing your wisdom@@PerfectVinylForever
That is a nice setup! You are doing very well. It would be interesting to compare how our new Archival 4.0 SMF outcomes compare to your at-home efforts. Sequentially using 80 kHz, 135 kHz then 220 kHz cavitation in the cleaning tank with surfactants and detergents is a game changer.
I can't stress beyond sounding like a broken record... see what I ddi there! ... that Steve's new 4.0 process is simply put remarkable. We sat through several record sides that evening and were transfixed at the before/after. One that stood out in particular was the live cut $5 Milt Jackson Paris... even though it was mono, we sat there at near live listening levels simply stunned at the playback quality. In this particular case also, there wasn't a single tick, pop or other blemish you heard. This record went through DR and 4.0.
He had me when he said the shrink MUST come off. So right, always dump that stupid shrink.
True story! Even though collectors scoff at this! 😅
@@SonicFlare Mit der gschissenen Folie kannst die schleichn, a Voischas, macht die Plotn hi, sonst nix.🙂
@@mymixture965 bwahahahahahaha so is es!!! Oida, wonnsinn!!!
@@SonicFlare Grüsse aus Salzburg.
@@mymixture965 grüß dich! War ein Jahr lang in Salzburg auf der Schule……….
Does anyone know if they do international ? I Cant see it on there website
They do.
I sent 16 records over to Steve earlier in the year. The records came back immaculate. Most of the albums I sent were purchased used and were cleaned to a level that equalled or exceeded the best ultrasonic machines I have used. More surprisingly, the nearly new album I sent actually came back sounding better that it did before the PVF 3.0 service. Cymbals sounded less like white noise and more like vibrating metal with a proper attack and decay. There was more immediacy to the music as well. Its not hyperbole when I say that PVF is the Rolls-Royce of vinyl cleaning services.
Now, what could PVF do better? Not much, although I would like to see at an 8LP option as it takes me a long time to acquire the minimum order of 16 records. Otherwise, the name of the service pretty much says it all.
Whaaaaaaaatsupppppp. Thanks for the feedback, I’m sure Steve appreciates it! Hope all is well!
@@SonicFlare Great you see you back making videos again! I've been waiting for this one for a bit to share my experiences. Thanks for bringing PVF to the attention of your fans. Obvious, a very positive experience for me. Looking forward to other such discoveries on your channel. (No pressure there. 😆)
Thank you for trying our services! I look forward to being of service to you, your records and your music in the future.
@@Steve-PerfectVinylForeverMany thanks! Any accolades headed your way are well deserved. Any chance of an 8 pack becoming available? 🙂
It is a great and reasonable question. Unfortunately, when you factor in the overhead cost of the mailer and time to send mailers, unpack and repack orders, there isn’t enough revenue at 8 records per order to offset the costs. I would have to increase the price per record to make that a viable option. We will keep it in mind and if we can strike a balance between cost and value (for us and our clients), we will create an A8 package.
Steve asks a couple of great questions:
1. What do you connect with when you listen to music? And
2. What are your emotional triggers that separate awesome albums from "you know, not bad"?
Interested how other other Sonic Flare fans answer this, but for me, maybe the biggest emotional trigger is space. Specifically, the space between and the framing of notes. Debussy and Miles were masters of this, as were Bill Evans and Delius: It's not just which notes are played, but when they are played and how impactful the silence is between them.
Lastly, I'm a bit surprised at how supportive you guys are of Rick Beato. Here is a guy that feels all music should be released as mp3s as he says there is no discernible difference between mp3 and high res formats (he did a whole video on it.) I think his early videos where he discussed introductory college-level music theory were well done, but let's not confuse the guy with Michio Kaku or Frank Zappa.
Ha! Good to hear your thoughts on Steve’s questions… everyone no doubt has their own perspective and connections.
Re: Beato… let’s face it, getting a mainstream guy to discuss sound quality is like asking a kid at McDonald’s what his favorite Big Mac meal is followed by… 😆
@@SonicFlare 🤣Makes sense. Oh and English Settlement is a great album! Nice to see that one at Casa de Kaey (wherever that happens to be this month. 😄)
I appreciate Beato because of his genuine enthusiasm for music and he elevates my understanding of music of this non-musician. I learned long ago that the majority of musicians are not authorities on sound quality and sound reproduction. I honestly think they hear right through it, meaning they sense music differently than non-musicians like me.
Danny, can you explain how the 4.0 process goes further then the previous iteration?
The Archival 3.0 process used 135 kHz in the cavitation cleaning tank and 220 kHz in the cavitation rinsing tank. Archival 4.0 SMF (Sequential Multi-Frequency) uses 80 kHz, 135 kHz and 220 kHz in the cavitation cleaning tank and 80 kHz in the cavitation rinsing tank.
We are getting better results because we leverage the benefits of each frequency. 80 kHz cavitation is great for particle removal on the table and top of the groove. 135 kHz cavitation is great at small particle removal and starts to remove the manufacturing residue in the middle-sides of the groove. 220 kHz cavitation is amazing at revealing all the fine details throughout the entire surface of the groove.
All of this cavitation has to happen in the cleaning tank where the cleaning solution surface tension is reduced for excellent sheeting coverage of the grooves of the record. Water alone is not effective.
We switch back to 80 kHz for the cavitation rinse tank because the cavitation implosions have better agitation in water with higher surface tension. Our rinse solution must be 100% volatile, meaning, it will completely evaporate with no residue. You can only reduce surface tension so much and remain 100% volatile, so a lower frequency is more effective in this application.
For the cavitation cleaning step of our Disaster Recovery pre-cleaning process, since the records have soaked for 12 to 24 hours, the only thing we need is strong agitation to remove the dissolved or loosened contaminants from within the groove. Therefore we use 40 kHz and 80 kHz cavitation for that step. Then the records are sonically optimized with the Archival 4.0 SMF process.
@Steve-PerfectVinylForever thanks Steve!
Thanks Steve for the explanation, records spinning there way to you in the new year.........
It would be interesting to know exactly what determines and qualifies a record to need disaster recovery aside from a known gunked up used record. Is it possible an old record still sealed would need the disaster recovery?
That’s a good question for Steve - I have asked him similarly, if using the disaster recovery prior to going through the 4.0 restoration process would further improve results … he simply said “no”.
In general, if I send him used records, I have him go through the DR process prior to 4.0, if for no other reason than to give the 4.0 process the best possible starting point.
@@SonicFlare That is good to know! Thanks for the info!
The two processes, Archival and Disaster Recovery, serve two purposes. The outcomes of the Archival process are to enhance the sonic performance of records, literally making it a higher definition music source for your turntable cartridge. Yes, surface noise from contaminants will be reduced as well.
Disaster Recovery is for records with increased surface noise due to contaminants in the groove of the record, typically, but not exclusively, used or vintage records. The long exposure in a cleaning solution is very effective at loosening the binders of the contaminants in the groove of the record. The contaminants are then removed by a 10 min cycle in our 40 kHz / 80 kHz sequential multi-frequency ultrasonic cavitation cleaning machine to remove the contaminants. The records then proceed to the 5 step Archival process.
In the end, your ears will determine if a record will benefit from the additional processing, and expense, of the Disaster Recovery step. Significant surface noise will be your guide.
@@PerfectVinylForever Thanks for the info Steve!
Aren't those records supposed to spin, at around 28:17 ?
Of course… process hasn’t started yet.
The records spin slowly, 1 revolution per over six minutes.
@@Steve-PerfectVinylForever Wow, that is indeed slow! No wonder it was not noticeable from the video :)
Clearly I know what I’m talking about!
This would be better without the music in the background. Other than that, a great video.
Cheers, thanks for tuning in!
I like your reviews for albums, but this is just a informational. I'm sure pvf does a great job. I hope you inJoy getting your records cleaned for free. It's not like you haven't done videos on pvf before. Again I inJoy watching your channel, but this really makes me pause.
@@chrisgrillo579 what makes you think I didn’t have to pay for my records getting cleaned. If this was an informercial, I would have labeled it as such.
I mean, you have done 2 or 3 videos of the same company. It's not like he give us advice on how to clean our own records. This is simply a commercial for his company.
@@chrisgrillo579 I disseminate plenty of information on how to get better results when cleaning your own records. PVF’s best clients are informed clients who are or were sophisticated self-perform at-home cleaners. This segment was a rare opportunity to film PVF’s process and equipment then share it with his audience.
And yes, Danny pays for the services we provide. It is not right to speculate on his or our integrity. The shipping costs alone to send 100s of albums from the United States to Hungary was a significant investment for him.
You can get scared - hopefully someone doesn't come through the door and throw your Wilson's in
😝
We are in the country… I doubt anyone here even knows what these are. 😆
lol, ocd anyone...
🤣
Ha, yes, perhaps but not for the reason you may think. I’m sonically OCD. The sonic outcomes justify the process, AKA, the OCD.