@@Alandus64 I mean it's exactly as Larry said: "The worse your opponent is, the better Incineroar gets" And you've seen how campy and braindead they played. Similar to Ganondorf Incin is a noob-check character imo
@@ngotemna8875 pretty much agree... I used to be an incinerroar main and it required little brain. Granted u gotta pick and choose wisely on how to approach. But ya his moveset is braindead as can be. Over b, nair, neutral b is the jist of him. With maybe a down throw over air lol. Basic stuff
@@ngotemna8875 I just don’t like how hammed up the zoner v incin mu is, especially on stages like Lylat or BF. It’s not as impossible as a lot of people make it out to be.
No I think they should just give him an entire speed boost in general and make him more rush down because he kinda is one but his speed keeps him back from being good. Of course if he was lot faster they also would have to make him a little weaker to compensate.
I think it’s interesting to look at Incinaroar as an example of what matters in the competitive Smash Bros meta, as he does have solid moves but the weakness of speed is so detrimental that he is considered a lower tier character. If he was faster, he would be better, which shows how important fast movement is in Smash even when you have lots of good tools.
@@free3793 high mid / bottom of high. We're reaallllly underrated. People dont really understand the character well so they say shes trash and not good but that's not true at all lol
@@dashman8499 some of the best aerials in the game in terms of frame data and priority... that nair.... dummy... backair.... dummy... his forward air is basically a better diddy forward air
Incineroar is one of my most played characters. Dammit, he's just so much fun to play and land hits with (Unless he's fighting Sonic, then it's not very fun).
3 extremely strong kill throw, all of aerials being amazing, a mechanism that allows him to deal over 40% off of 1hit, command grab, very good tilts (strongest ftilt, dtilt can 2frame) shield breaker which can kill and has many different uses, descent combo. Give him air and ground speed buff and he’s easily top10.
I personally think that a way to make incineroar better without taking away from his design is a good initial dash, and some better air acceleration (not mobility). This would still make him slow on the ground when running, but give some burst options, and being able to move a little faster in the air but not able to change direction will keep him ground orientated but gives him some options both off stage and for airier combos. Of course without drift he will be vulnerable there too.
i thought it was kinda weird because the clip before was only in the video for the transition and also the whole background changes that makes it feel like it wasnt clean at all
You guys have really been stepping it up lately with the videos in the past few months or so. I feel like the editing is better, the structure is more coherent, the titles/thumbnails are more appealing; nice work!
Incineroar has been and will always be my favorite character. His burst damage potential is off the damn charts, his frame data as you said is incredible for how slow he is and his auto-taunts after landing certain hits is always satisfying to watch. But yes, I will admit that his poor speed and very susceptible recovery are what ultimately what keep the Heel Pokemon in check. I'm still holding out for any sort of speed buff :X
Incineroar is a good example of a character who would easily be a top tier if he was just faster. When a character that slow has extended true combo's and kills and a disgusting move like his side b killing so early, he's primed for being broken if he was even average speed and not the slowest in the game.
I have a theory about low tier characters: they are intentionally the way they are for for non-competitive players. If you and you're buddy not very good at stringing combos together, then it's all about landing the biggest hits every time. That's why Little Mac is so good for new players.
Glad you made this video, Larry! Just getting around to seeing this. As a 3 year Incineroar main, there is still a lot more you could have done with Revenge, Darkest Lariat, and Nair to mess up your opponent offstage. I honestly don’t even think you need to increase his ground speed to make him all that better. I think Incineroar can benefit from these buffs: add more hitstun on the initial hit of Darkest Lariat so that he can’t be punish on hit by characters like Zelda, make his jump fast so that he’s not so much a vegetable and force to shield as often (Incineroar is one of the easiest characters to force into shield and grab), and then reduce the knockback on moves like down throw or down tilt so he can have just a tad bit saucier game. Feel free to disagree with what I think, but these are just my thoughts.
Incineroar is the main proof about movility in a platform fighting game, because he has almost everything going for: Absurd power, decent combo game, great grab game, high weight without being huge and surprisingly good frame data. But there's a reason why people tend to pick Bowser: Bowser is fast while incineroar is a slug, even with a worse frame data and being bigger.
I strongly agree. The sad thing is that I don't think there'll buff his airspeed. A lot of characters would benefit from a mobility buff when you think about it, but Incineroar needs it the most to bring out his moves the its fullest.
ppl choose bowser over incineroar because bowser is way more easier to play (especially at higher levels of play), has stupid bs (tough guy) and just more popular pick than Incineroar. Incineroar is still the second best heavy, but I don't blame people to wanting to play bowser because people don't like how "'slow'" incineroar is
I feel like Nintendo has an issue with making character's way too specialized, to the point they're bad in all but a few situations, and the situations they're good in can be easily avoided. Incin and Ganon both have this issue. We know they can make good heavies (Bowser, DK come to mind). I guess this is the weakness of Smash's limited moveset,
@Pokemon Master mind explaining how I said nothing, when I literally said smash has an issue with making characters too specialized? Which was the whole point of this video?
It's as you said. Incineroar has to be in a position to fight the opponent. "When" becomes "if." And if your opponent is better, Incineroar's mobility isn't going to help. To be fair, you're honestly just better off picking Bowser if you're looking to win in this meta.
The title is so accurate! He really does have a solid moveset, and he is still mediocre. It's interesting how many factors go into whether a character is good or not.
Incineroar should get a speed Boost when dashing, in Pokémon theres a fire move that gives you speed every time you use it. Also one of his taunts should be intimidate so he can decrease the rival strenght for a brief time.
Yup. Unlike Ness's back-throw which has low initial knockback but insane knockback growth, Incineroar's back-throw has pretty high base knockback but underwhelming knockback growth. This means at the ledge, Incineroar can kill you at very early percentages, but at the opposite side of the stage, he will struggle to kill for a long time (not much of a problem for him though since forward-throw and up-throw can kill too); on the other hand, Ness's back-throw exponentially increases in knockback the higher the percent your opponent is, so he can still kill with it from the other end of the known universe if you've racked up a reasonable amount of damage.
How to fix Incineroar: 1. Make down-b last for more than one hit. 2. Make the damage and knockback scaling on it weaker. 3. Let him combo off down-b. There you go now he can play proper rock, paper, scissors when he has down-b activated, and can choose to combo off activating his counter. That or give him weaker scaling for damage and knockback but heavy armor that scales instead of letting it last for more than one hit i guess.
Love to see Incineroar content. As someone who plays Incineroar, it's always great to see people talking about the good parts of the character. But, man, Incineroar needs buffs.
He already has people like that. Magister offline and Skyjay, Sharpy and MRW online. But people overlook them because they play Incineroar of all characters
I can't believe he didn't touch more on Revenge. Maybe he just doesn't know because he doesn't main the character. When Revenge is active your attacks become safer on shield. How safe the attacks become depends how much damage you've soaked to an upper limit, which is around a %22 damage attack. At around %80 of that upper limit nair becomes +3 on shield and d tilt is +2. There are more but I can't remember off the top of my head, but strong hit of nair to Lariat is a guaranteed shield break combo. The shield pressure mix ups is one of Incineroar's better options at a technical level, but again, like the rest of the character, just not quite good enough to be competitively viable
Yooooo. I never thought of this. Instead of buffing his base mobility, maybe a temporary speed boost whenever he gets revenge! Idk if it would work in practice, but on paper that’s one the smartest ways to buff incineroar I’ve seen :O
I think an easy way they could buff incineroar without making him insane is if they made so that when revenge is active you get a movement speed buff similar to cloud limit.
Playing a good and patient Incineroar player is basically hell, you have to play like 4 times better than him and not make any serious mistake, otherwise you're getting revenge side-B'd, 70% and blasted into the shadow realm. This character straight up steals, fighting him feels more like crossing a minefield than a normal matchup.
7:52 Larry dash attacked him into another stage lmao
that transition was awesome
I swear I didn’t see this when I first posted my other comment lol
@@n00blord14 I saw yours too lmao. great minds think alike.
That was some dope editing
I just wanna take a moment to appreciate that Larry beat 2 Min Mins and an online Samus with INCINEROAR
This comment right here is the direct byproduct of people sleeping on incin
@@Alandus64 I mean it's exactly as Larry said:
"The worse your opponent is, the better Incineroar gets"
And you've seen how campy and braindead they played.
Similar to Ganondorf Incin is a noob-check character imo
As an Incineroar main I have mad respect for that. Approaching in those matchups is damn near impossible
@@ngotemna8875 pretty much agree... I used to be an incinerroar main and it required little brain. Granted u gotta pick and choose wisely on how to approach. But ya his moveset is braindead as can be. Over b, nair, neutral b is the jist of him. With maybe a down throw over air lol. Basic stuff
@@ngotemna8875 I just don’t like how hammed up the zoner v incin mu is, especially on stages like Lylat or BF. It’s not as impossible as a lot of people make it out to be.
BUFF INCINEROARRRR
The King has spoken!
YES, DO IT
Lolm2k
TRUE
Incineroar is slow in the Pokemon games, BUT NOT THIS SLOW!!!!
They should make it so that when you’re in Revenge, your speed increases. Not sure by how much but I think that’d be really fun
They'd have to decrease his damage increase then because that'd be too strong otherwise
Hero exists
@@Davey-lm1qq For sure but he already does enough damage so it’s a good balance
@@splegoon4289 So you’re saying only one character can have a speed buff?
Edit: I read that wrong sorry
No I think they should just give him an entire speed boost in general and make him more rush down because he kinda is one but his speed keeps him back from being good. Of course if he was lot faster they also would have to make him a little weaker to compensate.
Frame data of a top tier, slowness of ganon, it's sad honestly, wish he was even a slight bit faster 😫
I think it’s interesting to look at Incinaroar as an example of what matters in the competitive Smash Bros meta, as he does have solid moves but the weakness of speed is so detrimental that he is considered a lower tier character. If he was faster, he would be better, which shows how important fast movement is in Smash even when you have lots of good tools.
@@equalsacone795 well, unless you have huge disjoints, great aerials and range. That's why corrin is really good, even though we're slow.
Make his air speed faster. It would be interesting
@@abstral7192 Corrin is really good??? Ive never heard anyone say that
@@free3793 high mid / bottom of high. We're reaallllly underrated. People dont really understand the character well so they say shes trash and not good but that's not true at all lol
If incineroar gets faster, he’ll be unstoppable.
Make his air speed faster. It would be interesting at least
@@Deadknight237 yeah. Especially because his aerials are some of his best moves
As an incineroar main, I agree
@@dashman8499 some of the best aerials in the game in terms of frame data and priority... that nair.... dummy... backair.... dummy... his forward air is basically a better diddy forward air
if his speed got buffed he would literally be better mii brawler
He really is a true Grappler character. He is easy to wall out but if he gets within burst range, you get destroyed by his amazing up close buttons
Some say Luke is still landing on charged up smashes to this day.
Incineroar is one of my most played characters. Dammit, he's just so much fun to play and land hits with (Unless he's fighting Sonic, then it's not very fun).
You play Falco and Incineroar? Are you my dad?
That applies to anyone playing against Sonic
Dont forget min min the only character that got an award for having the most boring matchup spead of all the game
I actually find Sonic gets caught by side b pretty easy
@@huntertisland6921 lmao honestly I think the same thing, they just get hit by it for some reason
7:50 okay editor i see you i see you, having fun with it i see lol
Riiiiight lmao
Larry spamming counter at ledge to edge guard sephiroth: 😎
Larry getting countered at the ledge by sephiroth: 😮
Afro Larry is a librarian, Cornrows Larry is the drummer for a jazz hip hop fusion band
As Marss says, “Cheeto Fingers.”
A quote to live by
@@ngotemna8875 It ain’t easy being cheesy.
That ftilt is crazy though. Just a simple move yet so strong
Larry has finally picked up a character that fits the lifestyle
Only thing holding incin back is speed. All his moves are good and some his moves are some of the best in the game (like d tilt) category wise
7:49 he really hit us with the Dunkey transition :0
3 extremely strong kill throw, all of aerials being amazing, a mechanism that allows him to deal over 40% off of 1hit, command grab, very good tilts (strongest ftilt, dtilt can 2frame)
shield breaker which can kill and has many different uses, descent combo.
Give him air and ground speed buff and he’s easily top10.
I personally think that a way to make incineroar better without taking away from his design is a good initial dash, and some better air acceleration (not mobility). This would still make him slow on the ground when running, but give some burst options, and being able to move a little faster in the air but not able to change direction will keep him ground orientated but gives him some options both off stage and for airier combos. Of course without drift he will be vulnerable there too.
7:52 is the best cut to a different scene ive seen in a long time. Well done editor!
7:53 clean transition editor
i thought it was kinda weird because the clip before was only in the video for the transition and also the whole background changes that makes it feel like it wasnt clean at all
also the music switches abruptly
@@Lesbjan if I told you the dash attack killed would that make it better
You guys have really been stepping it up lately with the videos in the past few months or so. I feel like the editing is better, the structure is more coherent, the titles/thumbnails are more appealing; nice work!
that dash attack shulk edit was clean af
Incinaroar feels so powerful, while also being trash. It is very cool
Loving the great editing!
Larry Lurr: Great skills, great videos, amazing hair cut
Incineroar has been and will always be my favorite character. His burst damage potential is off the damn charts, his frame data as you said is incredible for how slow he is and his auto-taunts after landing certain hits is always satisfying to watch.
But yes, I will admit that his poor speed and very susceptible recovery are what ultimately what keep the Heel Pokemon in check. I'm still holding out for any sort of speed buff :X
i thought he was going to make a Star Wars reference 9:33 "Believe in the Force Luke!"
Incineroar is a good example of a character who would easily be a top tier if he was just faster. When a character that slow has extended true combo's and kills and a disgusting move like his side b killing so early, he's primed for being broken if he was even average speed and not the slowest in the game.
If he was a little below average speed even...
As an Incineroar, I'd like to personally thank you
love your extensive work, going through almost every character!!
SHEEESSSH, THAT HAIRCUT THO. Looks great dude!
Incineroar is basically smash's version of Zangief, except everyone has 3 times the movement options (except him of course)
Damn, Casper; we see that @7:52 scene to scene edit. So slick!
I have a theory about low tier characters: they are intentionally the way they are for for non-competitive players. If you and you're buddy not very good at stringing combos together, then it's all about landing the biggest hits every time. That's why Little Mac is so good for new players.
7:51 that transition tho!
Glad you made this video, Larry! Just getting around to seeing this. As a 3 year Incineroar main, there is still a lot more you could have done with Revenge, Darkest Lariat, and Nair to mess up your opponent offstage. I honestly don’t even think you need to increase his ground speed to make him all that better. I think Incineroar can benefit from these buffs: add more hitstun on the initial hit of Darkest Lariat so that he can’t be punish on hit by characters like Zelda, make his jump fast so that he’s not so much a vegetable and force to shield as often (Incineroar is one of the easiest characters to force into shield and grab), and then reduce the knockback on moves like down throw or down tilt so he can have just a tad bit saucier game. Feel free to disagree with what I think, but these are just my thoughts.
Incineroar is the main proof about movility in a platform fighting game, because he has almost everything going for: Absurd power, decent combo game, great grab game, high weight without being huge and surprisingly good frame data. But there's a reason why people tend to pick Bowser: Bowser is fast while incineroar is a slug, even with a worse frame data and being bigger.
I strongly agree. The sad thing is that I don't think there'll buff his airspeed. A lot of characters would benefit from a mobility buff when you think about it, but Incineroar needs it the most to bring out his moves the its fullest.
ppl choose bowser over incineroar because bowser is way more easier to play (especially at higher levels of play), has stupid bs (tough guy) and just more popular pick than Incineroar. Incineroar is still the second best heavy, but I don't blame people to wanting to play bowser because people don't like how "'slow'" incineroar is
I felt Larry looking directly into my soul when he called out Luke at 9:35 😰😂
Incineroar and Dr Mario just need a normal speed, they would be so good
Dr mario for sure
"back throw is... its either its the strongest throw in the game... if its not the strongest its really strong"
*surprised ness face*
He's legit a zangief in a way
9:31
It’s the cirrrrcle of liiiiiife! And it mooooves us allllllllllll!
The dash attack out of lag is probably the funniest thing I’ve seen today 😂
I feel like Nintendo has an issue with making character's way too specialized, to the point they're bad in all but a few situations, and the situations they're good in can be easily avoided. Incin and Ganon both have this issue. We know they can make good heavies (Bowser, DK come to mind). I guess this is the weakness of Smash's limited moveset,
@Pokemon Master mind explaining how I said nothing, when I literally said smash has an issue with making characters too specialized? Which was the whole point of this video?
I appreciate the Macho Man tag. Good breakdown on the characters move set and comparing it to his mobility capabilities.
7:52 dude that edit of Shulk being kneed into next game made me lol
Dope video bro!
7:49 Wow that was a nice transition
The video I’ve been waiting for! My boy incin
Hands down, best editing so far.
People tend to forget he's a grappler its amazing
7:51 Larry dash attacked so hard the fight moved to another stage
It's as you said. Incineroar has to be in a position to fight the opponent. "When" becomes "if." And if your opponent is better, Incineroar's mobility isn't going to help.
To be fair, you're honestly just better off picking Bowser if you're looking to win in this meta.
7:52 nice transition
Love Incineroar! He was the second character that I got into Elite Smash. Just fun to play (except when off stage)
The title is so accurate! He really does have a solid moveset, and he is still mediocre. It's interesting how many factors go into whether a character is good or not.
Incineroar: good moveset, b.a.a.d character
Incineroar should get a speed Boost when dashing, in Pokémon theres a fire move that gives you speed every time you use it. Also one of his taunts should be intimidate so he can decrease the rival strenght for a brief time.
Finally someone showing inceneroar some love
Haven't seen many recent videos from him but marss plays a lot of incineroar
He dash attacked that Shulk so hard they switched stages.
1:25 Inci's backthrow is the strongest by the ledge, but done in the centre of the stage is kinda weak
Yup. Unlike Ness's back-throw which has low initial knockback but insane knockback growth, Incineroar's back-throw has pretty high base knockback but underwhelming knockback growth. This means at the ledge, Incineroar can kill you at very early percentages, but at the opposite side of the stage, he will struggle to kill for a long time (not much of a problem for him though since forward-throw and up-throw can kill too); on the other hand, Ness's back-throw exponentially increases in knockback the higher the percent your opponent is, so he can still kill with it from the other end of the known universe if you've racked up a reasonable amount of damage.
What are your thoughts on fighting heavy zoners. Ex. Captain Awsum villager
Larry’s edit with the edits. Nice
10:15 and this, boys and girls, is how to beat Min Min 😂
I played Incinaroar with movement speed spirits. He's a top tier when he's fast.
Good stuff, Larry! Do K. Rool next!
I'd also like to see K. Rool, I dig for content on the lovable crocodile.
Really like this series, can you do Corrin please?
Hi I love your style and your comments! Thanks for these videos.
Ganon’s moveset is actually decent. He just has terrible frame data, and slow speed
Love the new chop
You could replace Incineroar with Doc or Ganon here and the same would apply.
How to fix Incineroar:
1. Make down-b last for more than one hit.
2. Make the damage and knockback scaling on it weaker.
3. Let him combo off down-b.
There you go now he can play proper rock, paper, scissors when he has down-b activated, and can choose to combo off activating his counter. That or give him weaker scaling for damage and knockback but heavy armor that scales instead of letting it last for more than one hit i guess.
*DOWN B TO SIDE B* QUICKPLAY IS ON IT'S KNEES
9:30 that pose tho
Does d-throw>up b work at any percent?
This doesn't stop him from being one of my favorite characters, I always play grapplers in fighting games.
Larry's content has been great last couple months
Anyone else notice when he kneed that guy so hard the stage changed?
Highkey been enjoying playing incineroar recently he's pretty fun, when you can get in 😅
Incineroar is so fun to play
Also... larry... i like ur cut g *slaps the back of his head*
Love to see Incineroar content. As someone who plays Incineroar, it's always great to see people talking about the good parts of the character. But, man, Incineroar needs buffs.
The best worst character in the game
Mom: Drinking and Smoking while I'm pregnant won't effect my baby.
Their Baby: 10:34
Their baby: Aidan Flynn
Get yo Maximilian mus ass outta here
good moves, m.A.A.d. character
that sephiroth was at literal 3 when it killed screened
I main falcon, and secondary incineroar. So this was very nice to see from my favorite falco.
Incineroar has the strongest back throw at the edge because BASE KNOCKBACK
The way you pronounce data is the correct way, thank you
Incineroar just needs to find his Peanut.
He exists. His name is Skyjay
He already has people like that. Magister offline and Skyjay, Sharpy and MRW online. But people overlook them because they play Incineroar of all characters
Good to know. Thanks!
I can't believe he didn't touch more on Revenge. Maybe he just doesn't know because he doesn't main the character.
When Revenge is active your attacks become safer on shield. How safe the attacks become depends how much damage you've soaked to an upper limit, which is around a %22 damage attack.
At around %80 of that upper limit nair becomes +3 on shield and d tilt is +2. There are more but I can't remember off the top of my head, but strong hit of nair to Lariat is a guaranteed shield break combo. The shield pressure mix ups is one of Incineroar's better options at a technical level, but again, like the rest of the character, just not quite good enough to be competitively viable
Love the hair
Incin is mostly held back by his lack of speed and not much else, and it's so scary to think how broken he'd be with a movement speed buff
Did else anyone forget that he taunts after hitting a move.
10:24 Perfectly Cut Screams
Editor deserves a raise 7:50
give him a speed boost when he has revenge it would punish people for just camping him the entire game
Yooooo. I never thought of this. Instead of buffing his base mobility, maybe a temporary speed boost whenever he gets revenge! Idk if it would work in practice, but on paper that’s one the smartest ways to buff incineroar I’ve seen :O
I think an easy way they could buff incineroar without making him insane is if they made so that when revenge is active you get a movement speed buff similar to cloud limit.
larry yo wtf that hair tho 😂😂
Clean transition at 7:53 😏
Playing a good and patient Incineroar player is basically hell, you have to play like 4 times better than him and not make any serious mistake, otherwise you're getting revenge side-B'd, 70% and blasted into the shadow realm. This character straight up steals, fighting him feels more like crossing a minefield than a normal matchup.