I can only say concerning this fire dept where I am. The engineer has a multitude of task to accomplish. Once an external water supply has been established, I close the pump to tank valve. I can not sit and watch the gauges... if there is a catastrophic loss of water, the engine will cavitate and everyone will know it. This is the warning that there is only 750 gal of water left. This allows me to pull the tank to pump to return "retreat/escape" water to the attack line. This should take no more than a few seconds. I also alert the IC and fire crews via radio of the situation of the lost main water supply. If I were on the attack line, I would much rather have a momentary loss of water than a total loss of water.
Yes Charles. Once a hydrant is secured close TTP and start filling the booster tank as quick as you can with out interfering with the lines you are supplying. Once booster tank is full close tank fill. That way you always have a booster tank of water full as a back up.
THe department I retired always kept tank to pump closed and open when pumping from tank on a fire. But the department I now volunteer with it is the opposite which tank to pump is always in the open position. It drove me crazy until I finally got used to it already beiing opened. I would get on a fire and close tank-to-pump valve every time.. You become so programed after 30 years doing it one way and it is tough to change!
That would work with most departments but one volly I just left is in farm country band not enough radios for every member. Sorry but this dept requires you respond tonthe vstation on every call, no gear goes home and if you are coming from home and drive by the scene keep driving. You cannot even be in the building unless someone else is there until you finish probation. I have never been on a dept like it before and never will again. 40+ years experience and that is how they treat a member who can and does respond to every call.
Whatever way you run it, train like a MF and know your shit inside and out. Know what the pro’s and con’s are. Be flexible, know your equipment and how to solve problems. Also, tank to pump open always is way better. Change my mind.
drewmurtagh, you don't mention it in the video but, while your running with the TTP open while hooked to a hydrant are you also leaving the PTT valve open?? you would have to or you would end up using your tank water along with hydrant and end up with a empty tank. Yes?
TTP clapper stays shut as long as that intake pressure is higher than the head pressure from the tank. It is entirely possible, and frequently happens, to have a negative pressure at the impeller eye while still maintaining 10-20psi at the hydrant and in the soft suction hose. An inefficient intake valve such as a piston intake will cause that at many flows over 1,000gpm. In that condition, if the TTP valve is open, tank water will be siphoned off. Slowly at first, but potentially astonishingly quickly.
If you lose your pressurized water, you need to get the crew out of the building right away. The tank water will only give you about a minute. It’s not an insurance plan, it’s an emergency backup for retreat.
No question they need to get out immediately but how much time really depends on tank size. We run 1000 gallon tanks. Interior crew with 1.75" has 6.5 minutes @ 150GPM which for us is enough time to establish another water supply.
david robinson If you lose your hydrant, you’re not gonna find a replacement hydrant within enough time. You need to get the crew out of the building! 6 minutes is a very short time. Also, you would never go solo line on structure. You would certainly have another line outside the structure, so you’re certainly flowing more than 150 gpm.
david robinson If you lose your hydrant, you’re not gonna find a replacement hydrant within enough time. You need to get the crew out of the building! 6 minutes is a very short time. Also, you would never go solo line on structure. You would certainly have another line outside the structure, so you’re certainly flowing more than 150 gpm.
Necroposting, but who cares. If you have ever had an inexperienced pump operator overheat the pump by running it up during morning checks without giving the water somewhere to go, the heat will damage or destroy the pump packing, making it leak. In that case, if you routinely drive around with your tank to pump open and the packing leaking, you've emptied your tank long before the tones dropped.
if you want to put extra steps in between getting the alarm, and putting the wet stuff on the red stuff, park your engines nose into the station, so you have to back out. OWN your intentional inefficiency.
After 30 years in the Fire Service I can't believe what is happening. Are the POs really this dumb? Don't they have ears? Don't they check the pump settings? Hey boss anybody inside a "fully involved" structure is a fool. You guys needed to have some older experienced jakes start to teach the stuff we learned in the 1950s.
4:50 your driver should be checking valves daily when he takes over the pump at the start of his shift, surely? Is it not part of his daily checks in any US Fire Dept?
I am extremely old school, and I actually prefer to use a Booster Line if I am in a Low Water, or Low Man Power Situation. I can set the nozzle to a low GPM Setting, and stretch my Water Supply a little longer, and if it's only a crew of 3 total, Engineer, and Officer, and Nozzleman, a Booster Line being fed by a really good Engineer can make a low water supply last a long time, and with a really good fog pattern on a Booster Line Nozzle, a crew of 2 can handle it easy enough, and put out a lot of fire, as long as the building is not heavily involved upon arrival.
That is a false assumption. You will use more water to put out the same volume of fire with a lower flow line than one that is higher GPM. Unless you in the wildland where your waste most of your water to the ground, flow is kind for knock down.
It isn't about stretching water for there really is no such thing as stretching water. You may selectively utilize what water you have but all you do by restricting water flow is prolonging putting out a fire (BTUs) . Hit fire direct and hard is still the primary way to extinguish fire. Be safe! A. Portman, captain (ret)
Dorks?? You obviously are not in the fire service. The "mechanical parts" are BEHIND the panel, usually midship. That is something that pumpers should ALREADY know. This class is for the most part, talking to people that are already operators or are about to become operators..
Love the open “find what fits” mindset. Good job.
I can only say concerning this fire dept where I am. The engineer has a multitude of task to accomplish. Once an external water supply has been established, I close the pump to tank valve. I can not sit and watch the gauges... if there is a catastrophic loss of water, the engine will cavitate and everyone will know it. This is the warning that there is only 750 gal of water left. This allows me to pull the tank to pump to return "retreat/escape" water to the attack line. This should take no more than a few seconds. I also alert the IC and fire crews via radio of the situation of the lost main water supply.
If I were on the attack line, I would much rather have a momentary loss of water than a total loss of water.
Yes Charles. Once a hydrant is secured close TTP and start filling the booster tank as quick as you can with out interfering with the lines you are supplying. Once booster tank is full close tank fill. That way you always have a booster tank of water full as a back up.
Dilly dilly
THe department I retired always kept tank to pump closed and open when pumping from tank on a fire. But the department I now volunteer with it is the opposite which tank to pump is always in the open position. It drove me crazy until I finally got used to it already beiing opened. I would get on a fire and close tank-to-pump valve every time.. You become so programed after 30 years doing it one way and it is tough to change!
That would work with most departments but one volly I just left is in farm country band not enough radios for every member. Sorry but this dept requires you respond tonthe vstation on every call, no gear goes home and if you are coming from home and drive by the scene keep driving. You cannot even be in the building unless someone else is there until you finish probation. I have never been on a dept like it before and never will again. 40+ years experience and that is how they treat a member who can and does respond to every call.
Very concise and to the point.
Bravo!!!!
You should always isolate your tank. And fill your booster tank as soon as you have a hydrant tagged.
that last parts very true, gotta work with what you got. train for that 3am fire where everyones tired and no coffee in sight.
In this industry, regardless of the job you have, train until you can do it in your sleep, because eventually you will.
awesome Presentation.....
TANK TO PUMP, FRANK!
Whatever way you run it, train like a MF and know your shit inside and out.
Know what the pro’s and con’s are. Be flexible, know your equipment and how to solve problems.
Also, tank to pump open always is way better. Change my mind.
drewmurtagh, you don't mention it in the video but, while your running with the TTP open while hooked to a hydrant are you also leaving the PTT valve open?? you would have to or you would end up using your tank water along with hydrant and end up with a empty tank. Yes?
Dave Walton
Hydrant pressure is higher than tank gravity pressure (about zero). So tank clapper valve closed, tank water stays in the tank.
TTP clapper stays shut as long as that intake pressure is higher than the head pressure from the tank.
It is entirely possible, and frequently happens, to have a negative pressure at the impeller eye while still maintaining 10-20psi at the hydrant and in the soft suction hose. An inefficient intake valve such as a piston intake will cause that at many flows over 1,000gpm.
In that condition, if the TTP valve is open, tank water will be siphoned off. Slowly at first, but potentially astonishingly quickly.
Lee Adams
Yes. Well explained. Thanks.
A lot of good insight, and well spoken!
Overdraft, good one!
If you lose your pressurized water, you need to get the crew out of the building right away. The tank water will only give you about a minute. It’s not an insurance plan, it’s an emergency backup for retreat.
No question they need to get out immediately but how much time really depends on tank size. We run 1000 gallon tanks. Interior crew with 1.75" has 6.5 minutes @ 150GPM which for us is enough time to establish another water supply.
david robinson
If you lose your hydrant, you’re not gonna find a replacement hydrant within enough time. You need to get the crew out of the building!
6 minutes is a very short time. Also, you would never go solo line on structure. You would certainly have another line outside the structure, so you’re certainly flowing more than 150 gpm.
david robinson
If you lose your hydrant, you’re not gonna find a replacement hydrant within enough time. You need to get the crew out of the building!
6 minutes is a very short time. Also, you would never go solo line on structure. You would certainly have another line outside the structure, so you’re certainly flowing more than 150 gpm.
A minute😂 who brought the deck gun inside the building
A minute? how small is your freaking tank...carrying a couple five gallon buckets are ya?
tank to pump frank
Necroposting, but who cares.
If you have ever had an inexperienced pump operator overheat the pump by running it up during morning checks without giving the water somewhere to go, the heat will damage or destroy the pump packing, making it leak.
In that case, if you routinely drive around with your tank to pump open and the packing leaking, you've emptied your tank long before the tones dropped.
um confused on many aspects
It’s North America, everything has to be massively over complicated, discussed and dissected at inordinate length.
4 years later, did you figure it out or what😂
any traslate to spanish pls
Si
if you want to put extra steps in between getting the alarm, and putting the wet stuff on the red stuff, park your engines nose into the station, so you have to back out. OWN your intentional inefficiency.
After 30 years in the Fire Service I can't believe what is happening. Are the POs really this dumb? Don't they have ears? Don't they check the pump settings? Hey boss anybody inside a "fully involved" structure is a fool. You guys needed to have some older experienced jakes start to teach the stuff we learned in the 1950s.
Greetings from the UK. One concurs wholeheartedly, old chap. Answer complete Sir! ( Ex Fire Brigade & proud of it).
4:50 your driver should be checking valves daily when he takes over the pump at the start of his shift, surely? Is it not part of his daily checks in any US Fire Dept?
it does not take a lot of effort to pull Tank To Pump. Just pull it. Quit being lazy.
I kinda have to agree, especially in colder climates I wouldn't think you want your pump full of water.
U.S. fire engines seem to be made overly complicated.
if you dont have a green card dont comment.
I am extremely old school, and I actually prefer to use a Booster Line if I am in a Low Water, or Low Man Power Situation. I can set the nozzle to a low GPM Setting, and stretch my Water Supply a little longer, and if it's only a crew of 3 total, Engineer, and Officer, and Nozzleman, a Booster Line being fed by a really good Engineer can make a low water supply last a long time, and with a really good fog pattern on a Booster Line Nozzle, a crew of 2 can handle it easy enough, and put out a lot of fire, as long as the building is not heavily involved upon arrival.
That is a false assumption. You will use more water to put out the same volume of fire with a lower flow line than one that is higher GPM. Unless you in the wildland where your waste most of your water to the ground, flow is kind for knock down.
GPM put's out fire. Not gallons of water .
You could stretch your water out even more by using a garden hose, so why not do that? Oh, wait.. application rate matters. No?
It isn't about stretching water for there really is no such thing as stretching water. You may selectively utilize what water you have but all you do by restricting water flow is prolonging putting out a fire (BTUs) . Hit fire direct and hard is still the primary way to extinguish fire. Be safe! A. Portman, captain (ret)
you should quit
I see all these teachings. But they don't show the actual mechanical parts of the truck. When they don't do that. They look like dorks to me.
Dorks?? You obviously are not in the fire service. The "mechanical parts" are BEHIND the panel, usually midship. That is something that pumpers should ALREADY know. This class is for the most part, talking to people that are already operators or are about to become operators..