Sway bars were hands down the best single mod I have done to Miatas. As said in the video, keeping the same suspension and just upgrading the sway bars is immediately noticeable and improved. I live around a lot of rough roads and the upgraded sway bars helped the stock suspension handle the uneven roads greatly. Good vid. Was watching it just to remember the firm and soft settings for the bars.
Can you guys explain why the OE bars on the ND are vulcanized to the bushings? This makes no sense to me. How could one side have any chance of rotating the other when both sides are vulcanized to their respective bushings. I’m so confused as to why they would do this.
A rubber bushing is different from a typical polyurethane one. The rotation comes from the rubber itself flexing - this is how all of the joints in your suspension with rubber bushings work. Having the bushing fixed to the bar prevents side-to-side slip and also adds a bit of a spring rate to two-wheel bumps. On a polyurethane bushing (with some exceptions), the bushing is more of a bearing surface and the bar will rotate inside the bushing itself.
how do you find the right size sway bars with out going to stiff. you have progress,karcepts, FM, goodwin roaster,jbr, megan eibach etc. I'm trying to get sway and just get more confused. car is a NF fiat spider124( nd miata platform) will be a daily driver with autocross once a month, and possibly one hdpe a year. tires and wheels will be stock 16's possibly 17's with a 215/45/17 all season, and then autocross will use a 215/45/17 200tw .
On a NA miata, what would be recommended setup for a Dual Duty setup? Stay in the middle? Will see a little track use. Also, would links help even more and would it have the same setup?
End links won't change the setup. We'd recommend you start with our suggested starting positions - that's the middle on the rear and the softest on the front on an NA - and experiment to see what you like. The suggested starting positions were chosen because they're a good all-around setting but some like the car set up differently.
I have an NA with adjustable sway bars (two holes up front, three holes in back), adjustable end links and FM lower springs. I installed a trailer hitch for a bike rack and as expected, the extra weight at the tail makes the back end come around quite easily. What configuration would you recommend to tame the tail and reduce oversteer?
As a general rule of thumb, softer settings on the rear/stiffer settings on the front provide more understeer. Softer settings on the front/stiffer settings on the rear provide more oversteer. Try setting your rear sway bars to a slightly softer setting, and/or adjusting your rear suspension to a slightly softer setting (if you have adjustable aftermarket suspension).
Ok, So I recently bought my first Miata . An 04 NB. It's Canadian so the trim level is "GT". Meaning it has Bilstein shocks and a tower brace from the factory. Can you tell me if I would benefit from a Flying Miata Sway bar over the factory bar that is currently installed. I'm hesitant to start 'upgrading parts' on a car with only 51,000 kms ( 30k miles) on it ( yes, it was an amazing find ) even though it is 15 years old.
I install sway bars and end links on my ND and then I did coilovers. I’ve put about 500 miles on the new suspension. I wanted to know if the endlinks are always always going to be 90°? Or do they change? This is my first Miata and suspension upgrade. The sway bars had 3 holes front and back, and they are currently in the middle hole for both.
The end links are just the connectors for the sway bars to the control arms. The thing to watch is the angle of your sway bar. If your sway bars aren't parallel with the ground with the full weight of the car on the suspension, then you need adjustable end-links to keep your sway bars in the proper position.
Sorry about that! You can find sway bar settings in the instructions on the product page. Here are the NA/NB suggestions flyinmiata.com/support/instructions/suspension/swaybars.pdf
I have a 2006 nc1, I just ordered your sway bars, I can't afford to get new shocks at this time, they are fine, so if I put the sway bar on now without the shocks, will my car handle better?
Yes. The shocks are mostly there to deal with the springs, so they do not need to be upgraded if you change the bars. The reason we usually recommend upgraded shocks for the early NC is because they were not well valved from the factory. This is particularly true of the Bilstein-equipped cars.
That’s a tough question to answer, unless from someone with exact same stock setup as yours and moving to this same aftermarket sway bar. I drive a Lancer and changed rear sway bar from 20mm diameter OE, to a 24mm Whiteline. Whiteline has 3 holes just like how you see in this video here. The middle hole location has the exact same “lever arm radius” as the OE sway bar. So if I locate the endlinks in the middle hole, I know I receive exactly what the 20->24mm diameter move gives me. If I link further out, it’ll be slightly softer than that. If I link further in, it’ll be slightly harder than that. Ideally after you go into a new setup, you can bring the car to a familiar course (AutoX or track), so you can check how the response has changed. That way you can decide how to further dial-in to get what you want. The setup someone likes, might not be the setup you like. Very subjective. That’s why it’s hard to answer your question.
If it's an earlier NC, your shocks are a bigger problem. But once the shocks are sorted out, sway bars would be a good upgrade. We recommend doing both unless you are making substantial changes to the car's balance by also changing the front/rear spring rate ratio and going to a different alignment type.
soo how about a blade swaybar .. with driver adjustable roll characteristics I used EN 9 bar for my Donnington GT championship winning car I drove in 1980.
Blade bars like that really only have two stiffness settings, they're not infinitely adjustable. How often did you find yourself having to adjust the sways mid-race, assuming you had time to set up the car before the race?
@@FlyinMiataVideo you are correct .. the UK weather meant one or the other . Rain and wet soaked track full soft and my 1000 lb , 140 bhp. ground effects car turned into a nasty beast . Kept me on my toes .Pour in Polyurethane seat six point harness. huge G forces. amazing braking . Dunlop 776 bike wet compound on dry slicks . All good memories .. Setting up was a rare occasion . Money for a test session and time off work made things difficult .. .
There are a lot of variables here. What generation? Did you change the shocks? What suspension? What top hats? Did you use Coil-overs or just springs? Please reach out to our customer support department directly and they will be happy to help you out. Call 970-464-5600 M-F 8-5 Mountain time or drop us an email at support@flyinmiata.com. Thanks!
Good question! If the sway bars are the only thing that changes, you should be able to skip the alignment. On the NA, you can swap the sway bars without removing any of the suspension components that affect alignment.
The optimal position of the way bar, with the weight of the car on the suspension, is to have the "arms" of the sway bars parallel with the ground. This video by Keith Tanner goes into much more detail about sway bars and suspension theory and might answer more of your questions: czcams.com/video/oYaoDgMCmtc/video.html
You are correct. :) To get the most out of your sway bar, the ends should be parallel to the ground with the weight of the car on the suspension. This is an older video, so we aren't sure what the story is with the sway bar levels on this car. Sorry about that!
I noticed those end links are slanted at quite a steep angle. Any reason the upper side of end link is on the inside, rather than outside? If they were placed on the outside, it looks like the end links would be closer to vertical. I know doing so makes the sway bar rise more than current placement, so sway bar would be less horizontal. But my thoughts are: between a skinnier end link vs a beefier sway bar, the end link is weaker, so I’d prioritize having that more “direct” (vertical), and let sway bar be 10~15 degrees off from horizontal… I’m not mechanical or automotive engineer. Above is just my impression based on physics & geometry. Any thoughts you can share on this topic is appreciated. Thx!
The car's at full droop and they're not as steeply angled as it looks. More importantly, that's where Mazda put them. If you put them on the other side of the bar, you can make contact between the end link and the shock.
Flying Miata sway bars, springs and konis (available as a convenient kit) have allowed me to remove my brake pedal.
Eric, what a really clear and well explanation of the effect and adjustability of sway bars and end links. More videos like this please!!
Sway bars were hands down the best single mod I have done to Miatas. As said in the video, keeping the same suspension and just upgrading the sway bars is immediately noticeable and improved. I live around a lot of rough roads and the upgraded sway bars helped the stock suspension handle the uneven roads greatly. Good vid. Was watching it just to remember the firm and soft settings for the bars.
Thanks for making these videos
thank you for the clear explanation, exactly what I was looking for
Great explanation. Much appreciated.
Awesome explanation thank you.
I own a set for my na with adjustable endlinks... game changer. So much bang for buck
Yes more suspension technical videos please.
What aspect do you want us to cover?
Good job!
What would a good sway bar setup for small circle track dirt track? The turns are tractor tires. Thanks
Can I just upgrade the rear sway bar to get a little bit more play on the rear end on a corner? Or just as a daily driver?
Can you guys explain why the OE bars on the ND are vulcanized to the bushings? This makes no sense to me. How could one side have any chance of rotating the other when both sides are vulcanized to their respective bushings. I’m so confused as to why they would do this.
A rubber bushing is different from a typical polyurethane one. The rotation comes from the rubber itself flexing - this is how all of the joints in your suspension with rubber bushings work. Having the bushing fixed to the bar prevents side-to-side slip and also adds a bit of a spring rate to two-wheel bumps.
On a polyurethane bushing (with some exceptions), the bushing is more of a bearing surface and the bar will rotate inside the bushing itself.
how do you find the right size sway bars with out going to stiff. you have progress,karcepts, FM, goodwin roaster,jbr, megan eibach etc. I'm trying to get sway and just get more confused. car is a NF fiat spider124( nd miata platform) will be a daily driver with autocross once a month, and possibly one hdpe a year. tires and wheels will be stock 16's possibly 17's with a 215/45/17 all season, and then autocross will use a 215/45/17 200tw .
I own a subie but this was a very helpful video, thank you
We're glad we could help!
On a NA miata, what would be recommended setup for a Dual Duty setup? Stay in the middle? Will see a little track use. Also, would links help even more and would it have the same setup?
End links won't change the setup. We'd recommend you start with our suggested starting positions - that's the middle on the rear and the softest on the front on an NA - and experiment to see what you like. The suggested starting positions were chosen because they're a good all-around setting but some like the car set up differently.
I have an NA with adjustable sway bars (two holes up front, three holes in back), adjustable end links and FM lower springs. I installed a trailer hitch for a bike rack and as expected, the extra weight at the tail makes the back end come around quite easily. What configuration would you recommend to tame the tail and reduce oversteer?
As a general rule of thumb, softer settings on the rear/stiffer settings on the front provide more understeer. Softer settings on the front/stiffer settings on the rear provide more oversteer. Try setting your rear sway bars to a slightly softer setting, and/or adjusting your rear suspension to a slightly softer setting (if you have adjustable aftermarket suspension).
Ok, So I recently bought my first Miata . An 04 NB. It's Canadian so the trim level is "GT". Meaning it has Bilstein shocks and a tower brace from the factory.
Can you tell me if I would benefit from a Flying Miata Sway bar over the factory bar that is currently installed.
I'm hesitant to start 'upgrading parts' on a car with only 51,000 kms ( 30k miles) on it ( yes, it was an amazing find ) even though it is 15 years old.
The factory brace from 2001-04 is pretty good. There are better places to spend your money.
I have a 2010 base model NC. Would I benefit from adding sway bars? Weekend driver….no track use.
We think all Miatas benefit from a good sway bar upgrade. Check out our updated video for more info!
czcams.com/video/wvqw-f4dhlA/video.html
I install sway bars and end links on my ND and then I did coilovers. I’ve put about 500 miles on the new suspension. I wanted to know if the endlinks are always always going to be 90°? Or do they change? This is my first Miata and suspension upgrade. The sway bars had 3 holes front and back, and they are currently in the middle hole for both.
The end links are just the connectors for the sway bars to the control arms. The thing to watch is the angle of your sway bar. If your sway bars aren't parallel with the ground with the full weight of the car on the suspension, then you need adjustable end-links to keep your sway bars in the proper position.
what are the reccomended settings for NB chassis? cant find them on the knowledge base.
Sorry about that! You can find sway bar settings in the instructions on the product page. Here are the NA/NB suggestions flyinmiata.com/support/instructions/suspension/swaybars.pdf
I have a 2006 nc1, I just ordered your sway bars, I can't afford to get new shocks at this time, they are fine, so if I put the sway bar on now without the shocks, will my car handle better?
Yes. The shocks are mostly there to deal with the springs, so they do not need to be upgraded if you change the bars.
The reason we usually recommend upgraded shocks for the early NC is because they were not well valved from the factory. This is particularly true of the Bilstein-equipped cars.
How stiff are the sway bars relative to stock (on an ND) when set at the middle setting?
That’s a tough question to answer, unless from someone with exact same stock setup as yours and moving to this same aftermarket sway bar.
I drive a Lancer and changed rear sway bar from 20mm diameter OE, to a 24mm Whiteline.
Whiteline has 3 holes just like how you see in this video here.
The middle hole location has the exact same “lever arm radius” as the OE sway bar.
So if I locate the endlinks in the middle hole, I know I receive exactly what the 20->24mm diameter move gives me.
If I link further out, it’ll be slightly softer than that.
If I link further in, it’ll be slightly harder than that.
Ideally after you go into a new setup, you can bring the car to a familiar course (AutoX or track), so you can check how the response has changed. That way you can decide how to further dial-in to get what you want.
The setup someone likes, might not be the setup you like. Very subjective. That’s why it’s hard to answer your question.
@@reallifeengineer7214 hey thanks for the time you put into that answer :-)
Would you recommend sway bars upgrade if my nc miata GT hard top came with the suspension package? Front , Back or Both? Thanks
If it's an earlier NC, your shocks are a bigger problem. But once the shocks are sorted out, sway bars would be a good upgrade. We recommend doing both unless you are making substantial changes to the car's balance by also changing the front/rear spring rate ratio and going to a different alignment type.
I hear that It is very hard to change the front sway bar on a ND do you have any suggestions or tips?
Cut out the old one. Easier than dropping the subframe
@@PortaRacing thanks
rudybrklyn there’s a video where a guy does it without cutting and without dropping the subframe. Difficult but doable
soo how about a blade swaybar .. with driver adjustable roll characteristics I used EN 9 bar for my Donnington GT championship winning car I drove in 1980.
Blade bars like that really only have two stiffness settings, they're not infinitely adjustable. How often did you find yourself having to adjust the sways mid-race, assuming you had time to set up the car before the race?
@@FlyinMiataVideo you are correct .. the UK weather meant one or the other . Rain and wet soaked track full soft and my 1000 lb , 140 bhp. ground effects car turned into a nasty beast . Kept me on my toes .Pour in Polyurethane seat six point harness. huge G forces. amazing braking . Dunlop 776 bike wet compound on dry slicks . All good memories .. Setting up was a rare occasion . Money for a test session and time off work made things difficult .. .
I lowered my car and the rear end is not equal with the front what do I need to make it equal
There are a lot of variables here. What generation? Did you change the shocks? What suspension? What top hats? Did you use Coil-overs or just springs? Please reach out to our customer support department directly and they will be happy to help you out. Call 970-464-5600 M-F 8-5 Mountain time or drop us an email at support@flyinmiata.com. Thanks!
So, in regards to the sway bars. If I install a set will I have to get an alignment done on my NA?
Good question! If the sway bars are the only thing that changes, you should be able to skip the alignment. On the NA, you can swap the sway bars without removing any of the suspension components that affect alignment.
I m still looking to see the normal angle of the sway bar
The optimal position of the way bar, with the weight of the car on the suspension, is to have the "arms" of the sway bars parallel with the ground. This video by Keith Tanner goes into much more detail about sway bars and suspension theory and might answer more of your questions:
czcams.com/video/oYaoDgMCmtc/video.html
From what I've read,sway bars should be level when the car sits on the ground. That front bar is level and the suspension is hanging free.
You are correct. :) To get the most out of your sway bar, the ends should be parallel to the ground with the weight of the car on the suspension. This is an older video, so we aren't sure what the story is with the sway bar levels on this car. Sorry about that!
I noticed those end links are slanted at quite a steep angle.
Any reason the upper side of end link is on the inside, rather than outside?
If they were placed on the outside, it looks like the end links would be closer to vertical.
I know doing so makes the sway bar rise more than current placement, so sway bar would be less horizontal.
But my thoughts are: between a skinnier end link vs a beefier sway bar, the end link is weaker, so I’d prioritize having that more “direct” (vertical), and let sway bar be 10~15 degrees off from horizontal…
I’m not mechanical or automotive engineer. Above is just my impression based on physics & geometry. Any thoughts you can share on this topic is appreciated. Thx!
The car's at full droop and they're not as steeply angled as it looks. More importantly, that's where Mazda put them. If you put them on the other side of the bar, you can make contact between the end link and the shock.
Hey guys! Ever heard this noise before? Car has FM sways and end-links.
czcams.com/video/WkuqLXLGWPI/video.html
That sounds like a loose end link.
129$ curtain rod lol
czcams.com/video/wvqw-f4dhlA/video.htmlsi=V9b0StWMTVP2MHXn