Book Alicent:" The city is yours, princess but you will not hold it long. The rats play when the cat is gone, but my son Aemond will return with fire and blood" Show Alicent:" YAAASS QUEEN! SLAY MY SONS!"
@@Alptanis well she only said a son for a son and the son she is talking about is the crippled handicap death wishing son pretty sure everyone else is spared
- Robb laughing at Edmure during Hoster’s funeral. Blackfish then took the arrow from Edmure out of spite. - Yara decided to leave Theon to die because the fully armored ironborn warriors are so afraid of a topless Ramsay that much. - Lack of Tysha confession from Jaime. - A complete absence of Lady Stoneheart. GoT dropped some breadcrumbs of bad writing during the first 4 seasons before reaching the full-blown “bad poosy” era in season 5. Meanwhile, HoTD reached the bad poosy era in just season 2 and Condal doesn’t even have the excuses of “lacking the source material” like D&D.
Lady stonehearts story was ass in the books. Yara ran when Ramsay released his doggos not cause of Rammy himself (even dumber tbh). Funeral scene was fine added a bit more context to Ed/Blackfish which we dont see as much in the show as compared to the books. Tysha was a missed opportunity but tbh I dont hate it, Tyrions obsession w tysha in dance was kinda cringe and I wasn't a big fan of it, tbh a worse sin was cutting out Fake Aegon/Golden co storyline.
So alicent went from jumping in front of a dragon to protect her children to betraying them over a walk in the woods (except for daeron that she doesn't even consider I guess) Aemond is desperate to have haelena ride into battle but somehow doesn't think to mention that they killed her son and probably her daughter too if they win😂 Haelena that can now talk telephatically with people on the other side of the country somehow. And she also just spoiled the show for absolutely no reason, wtf was that seriously
Alicent is a destroyed character now after she betrayed her family who cares what her character does going forward …i don’t understand that decision smh
You should throw out your definition of “filler” with this. I can’t call it filler unless these scenes ultimately have no consequence, but the implications after these scenes narratively does concern me a bit.
Thank you for this genuine reaction. I agree with you. As you, I thought that those Daemon's dreams and talks to Alys and failures with the rivermen were going to make him change, become more humble and devoted to his wife-queen. But no ! At last it was just FATE. Oh Gods, I can't tell how much I HATE this choice !
But that did still play a major factor in Deamon changing. The white walker vision was not the one deciding factor in making him bend the knee, but just the culmination of everything that came before it. To me it seemed like he leaned into these dreams the more the season went on instead of “fighting” these visions. Especially when he finally cries out for help in the last one, literally saying out loud that he can’t do it himself. The final white walker vision was just the confirmation of this prophecy that is deeply rooted in Valyrian tradition with Aegons dream. Something he even condemned and wrote off in season 1. At least that’s how I took it. I understand where people think everything just came down to the white walker dream, but fail to acknowledge the progression of his dreams and his behavior within the dream and when he “wakes up”, because there’s a lot of subtle differences between them.
The worst part of Better Call Saul, the prequel to Breaking Bad, was when they (minor spoiler) brought back Walter White and Jesse Pinkman as nostalgia baits because the show was that strong as a story of its own and in my opinion, it would have been much better without the inclusion of these two. HoTD should focus on being a Dance of the Dragons story first and being a prequel much much later. If they can’t stand on their own, all these key-jangling won’t help them that much.
@@nont18411 yes but at least BCS didn't shove it down our throats. HOTD keeps forcing this song of ice and fire winter is coming prince that was promised plot line, as if the show revolved around this stupid prophecy.
You can’t go anywhere in the internet without people spoiling shit anyways. Even peoples thumbnails give shit away . I wish this was an entirely different story so I don’t have to constantly have shit spoiled. All of these characters die anyway which makes this story dumb anyways.
So many terrible moments throughout this episode. So through all of daemon haunting he still wants the throne n the army for himself it aint until a witch gives him a vision then he is suddenly team rhaenyra…… Helena suddenly has control of her visions and can see ur brothers death but she cant see her own sons death….what? I refuse to believe this is the same alicent from season1 she genially is ok with rhaenyra killing her kids n still wants peace with her after daemon killed her grandson…..not to mention she gives away what aemond is planning so she is effectively giving a cheat code in the show….when in the book daemon was the one to secure kings landing through cunning….. a very mix episode for a very mixed season……
Yup. I hated it when he was called 'Tywin.' It was absurd. Took me out of it. I imagined all the casual 'show only' fans thinking it was cool, though 🤣. I'm pretty sure there isn't even any reason they would say 'Tywin,' right? They knew he was a Lannister of Casterly Rock, but I don't think there have been any other Lords of Casterly Rock named Tywin, right? Definitely not any that anyone in Essos would know, I'd assume?
Among other things, I fear Daemon's character just got factory reset. Wasn't taking King's Landing when Aemond marches toward Harrenhal supposed to be his idea? Will he have any agency from this point forward? Sounds like he's resigned to being a plot device.
“Winter is coming” was a big deal before winter actually came. If hbo isn’t willing to make some sort of alternate ending for season 8 it would be best to stop referencing it.
As a show only watcher, the show lacks character development for sure. I dont feel attached to the characters very much. I have the sense that we are supposed to be rooting for team black, but im onyl entertained by the boys on Team Green only. There are also a few other things that really take me out of the world, again, as a show only viewer.
They need to stop with the reference to Game of Thrones because unless they announce that there will be a rewrite of that story, they should try and stay away from it. (Daenerys is a mass murderer in the current canon, Show Thrones. So any references or links they try to make between her, Rhaenyra, and Daenerys are foolish.) As for the rest, oh dear Alicent, what did they do to you. The one scene I truly liked was the Daemon and Rhaenyra scene. The rest wasn't, maybe, except for the Jace and Hugh scenes, and Aegon was good, as always. The rest I disliked a lot.
I’ll be rewatching both seasons, too. I think the waiting every Sunday for a new episode can hurt the experience a little bit. I think watching 18 episodes back to back might be more enjoyable! 😊
My ADHD brain: Can’t accept the abysmally slow pace of HoTD this season. Also, my very same ADHD brain: Loving Shogun a lot, despite its tiny flaws. It’s as if the problem is not really about that I want to see the battles all the time and can’t stand dialogue-driven scenes after all.
What if maybe just maybe they’re going to change the lore and give us a an ending to the song of ice and fire that we deserve, instead of that dumpster fire of a last season.thats the way I’m looking at it.
I wish Corlys had more internal conflict with Rhaenyra bc of Rhaenys’ death. Maybe even a convo with Rhaenys that she’s making a mistake or that he doesn’t want her to die, something about the risk of going to Rook’s Rest. I also wish we saw Baela grieving for her grandmother.
Do your thing, pay no attention to personal criticism. There will always be someone complaining no matter what. Complaining is a lifestyle now, can’t please everyone all the time.
@@GeeNoniGeeafter that episode aired every after show channel was full of comments defending arya and the writers choices. It wasnt until rhaegal died and they showed that scene of dany withoit makeup.... Thats when they all realized they were wrong about dany and that it was now bad writing. If you dont believe me go back and read things posted before episode 4 aired.
Cheers for the upload. Show-only fan here. I'm loving the show, along with the 'slower' episodes that try some others' patience, which I find baffling as GRRM writes in so much detail (how many buttons a waist-coat has - yawn) that the plot sinks into molasses constantly. Unfortunately I saw plenty of spoilers (mostly through inconsiderate upload titles) for upcoming HOTD events, although even without these, there are spoilers within the actual show such as Aemond's fate being revealed in the last episode (why ruin surprise?) or Daemon's (potentially) via Alice's first words to him, which I can't fathom at all. I'm happy with the show taking time to breathe and I'm all for the development of the characters, and although I was completely underwhelmed by the final episode, the set-up is at least complete. My only complaints about the show (other than the spoilers within it) are the occasional repetition of dialogue, such as Rhaenyra's indecision ("What would you have me do"), or the Daemonhal sub-plot running on a little longer than I'd have liked. Can't wait for season 3.
I did feel like this episode wasn't great as a finale but giving it a day to hit me I think this episode did its job. It makes us want more as the audience which as a show runner is a job well done.
It was your essays that brought me to your channel. The raw takes are great imo, unscripted just initial thoughts to the episode. Putting the episode into a bubble basically whereas your essays look at the whole of the content. So in a way, it can compare how that truly can change ones perspective.
I first found out about ASOIAF near the end of Season 5 of GoT. I watched the first five seasons as fast as I could, because the show was so good and that universe was so captivating! I watched and rewatched my favorite scenes and bought the first three books of the series. While reading them, I was amazed at the fact that no matter good the Show was, the books were even better, either in terms of character depth and historytelling. This being said, the first 4 seasons were the show peak (especially 2 and 3, in my opinion). Season 5, however, was, for lack of a better word, slow; Season 6 was better, but the cracks in storytelling were even more noticeble. And then... Well, the show died! The only way I could still "enjoy" it was by pretending these were non-canonical seasons (a kind of "What if" show). Even after all these years, I can't help but feel betrayed by the showrunners, and this comes from someone who doesn't consider himself part of a "fanbase", "fandom" or something like it. Long story short, I chose to watch HoTD because I had hope i could remember the feeling of the first seasons of Got. Instead, my hopes are being slowly crushed while I have to endured the showrunnes bragging about those stupid "prophecies" that will turned out to be bs (Yes, i talking about that garbage "long night" from season 8)! I'll still watch the show and try enjoying some characters and plots, but isn't that sad that they failed so early in the story?
💯HOTD or should I say 'The Rhaenyra Show' is pure fan fiction at this point, or fan service to give modern audiences and former Daenerys fans a new badass warrior dragon queen. The show runner is constantly breaking the lore to push his own narrative, he thinks he can own the story and do better than the source material. Both Rhaenyra and Alicent are so different in the book, they are powerful women in a male dominatad world but no victims, they're willing participants in all the political decisions and scheming, that's how GRRM likes to write his characters, no one is blameless in his world, and Rhaenyra's character is as cruel as the rest of the players. The point of the book's story is that thirst for power can tear entire families apart, while in the show it's more about feminism and the evil patriarchy, very popular themes these days. Martin has been subtly critisizing the writers, he found aspects of the adaptation quite problematic, like Blood&Cheece for instance, he also recently quoted: 'Ignore canon and the world you've created comes apart like tissue paper.' The show is not even loosely based on the Fire&Blood book, and its unreliable narrators are far less biased than Condal the Rhaenyra simp.
Exaclty, man! That's one thing that diminishes my interest in the series at this point... I started watching HoTD because I wanted to be immersed in that world and forget about how they killed it in the first place. Why do the showrunners think the audience needs to be reminded of those stupid seasons 7 and 8? (5 and 6 were bad, but it's not even close)
Im thinking that the war itself isnt really meaningful or impactful because alicent misunderstands when in books it wasnt that way she believes she was doing by usurping and putting her son on the throne despite her husbands wishes... this wouldnt make her totally evil because she did it for her own reasons like aemond killing luce it was impactful all the way to kingslanding.. aemond thought he would get an welcome and thanks for starting this war but he was wrong only one who supported him was aegon the king his brother why are they rivals again.... i dont understand if aemond calculating in the show why he would try harming aegon..
I agree about the levity! From Ulf to the Triarchy scenes… it felt wrong to have so much humor added in the finale… the house that dragon built mentioned the director wanted to add that and I’m not sure the director was aware of the wider scope of the show or just focused on what she could bring to that single episode…. I’ll be back for season 3 though. The story has so much more I’d love to see coming soon. 🤞🏻
I feel like what is up is down. I remember watching season 7 of GOT and all I heard was how good it was and I was wanting to vomit with the Jon/Dany love story because I felt it was forced, shoved done our throat with no time for development. Now I am hearing how much people hate HOTD and I am still enjoying it even with its flaws. I am a book reader and a show watcher. I guess I misunderstood GRRM and the way he writes prophecy. I guess Raygar never did anything because of prophecy. The two year break between 1 and 2 beat this season. I think the pacing is disjointed not necessarily slow. I think if it had been only a year break the slow burn of this season would not have been so much of a disappointment for people. I am starting to want to disengage from the fandom because its just to ugly. I like reviews that focus on both the good and the flaws. From some of the channels I've watched it is as if there is no good in this episode, and because the show is not each persons own head cannon its the worst show ever. I will patiently do the next two year break until the show producers finally realize two year breaks on shows ruins them.
Why attach it to game of thrones after they failed us by the end of it... why even destroy these characters to do all these things i am annoyed we didnt even see aemond burn the castle why are they doing this to these characters now haelena wont be able to go mad just because she is a full dreamer now and controls her dreams and able to telepath and talk to daemon... i am just disappointed.. i am a book reader and understand changed but not on this scale this is dumb in my opinion they making daemon weaker minimizing the GOAT in this war... game of thrones and dance of dragon should be seperate because they are seperate.... if you ignore history,cannon or lore and you create your own... how could you spoil the show though haelena🤔 you should be able to see bits n pieces in order to go mad
16:03 this is a major issue with the entire show up to now I think.. things happen and then they’re almost immediately forgotten about or resolved with no real conflict or consequences .. and it makes everything feel like it’s worthless and nothing matters .. especially when u add in the heavy handed prophecy stuff, ur basically telling the audience on multiple fronts that nothing these characters do actually matters.. which is an insane thing to portray to ur audience lol ur almost ensuring no one is gonna care about ur show, and if I hadn’t read the books I’m not so sure I’d have any interest in watching this show anymore after this season.. my wife hasn’t read the books and she hasn’t even watched S2 yet, she completely lost interest by the time S1 was over, and I can’t even really push her or recommend her to watch this season cuz I think it’s, in a lot of ways, worse than S1 or ar least not much better .. just the way they’re telling this story is not very interesting or satisfying
People some “not all”but especially the ones calling it boring or a snooze festival should know that this show will be 3 seasons that we know of therefore why on gods earth would they start killing off all the the main characters within two season’s. Next season we will be losing characters left and right episode after episode. A rollercoaster 🎢 of emotional losses just like GOT started to feel once the build up was over. I get it, I thought him talking to a witch all season was overkill but in the book it’s took him years to realize those things. With that logic you wouldn’t be able to make it thru nor enjoy the book because you want action with no reasoning behind it. It’s coming and the end ain’t a fairytale so have patience and stop hate watching . Imagine paying a subscription to hate watch a show💀😩
I'm still looking forward to season 3 but after that episode I'm definitely a bit more iffy about how it's going to play out. That was a pretty weak final episode the whole got vision in the godswood was stupid and I knew they were going to do that from the moment they started talking about the song of ice and fire in season one I called it a year ago when discussing the show. Allicent just giving up is just a stupid writing choice and is a complete 180 of her character. Aegons great as always though hands down the best character this season by a mile.
Well.. I really tried but this show is soooo boring, the last seasons of GOT were so dumb that at least they were entertainingly bad, HOTD is just a snoozefest
I don't think it's boring personally but I get why people feel that way. I feel like this season was a massive wasted opportunity I feel like nothing happened for a lot of the season and aside from a few plot points a lot of the characters are in the same position they were at the start of the season.
It’s only 3 season why would they go and kill everyone off in the first two seasons, it’s not boring you just have no patience and don’t understand a build up. Yes I’m just as tired of the no action but it will come and you will lose a character show after show next season. Imagine reading the book with this logic.
@@goated3285 Yea nah I don't understand build up that's why I loved the first half of GOT so much, GTFOH with that bullshit man, there's a difference between building up and staying stuck in a standstill Imagine being able to understand that I wouldn't have to wait 2 years between each chapters if I was reading the book, and again there's interesting build up and boring build up, this season was the latter, and when did I say anything about characters needing to be killed btw lol ?
If thw point was that Bran manipulated all of this to get himself on the throne, or if the point was that the characters were falsely interpreting visions of the future as some kind of destiny they need to fulfill, even though we know that the ascension of Daenerys Targaryen was completely pointless and literally accomplished nothing and had absolutely zero impact on fighting the white walkers, that would be interesting. But i think theyre trying to say that this would all be straightforwardly necessary destiny.
100% I’m just reworking that video now that the season is complete and I’ve got the entirety of all episodes to reflect upon. Also, I want to get through some rewatches, detached from other reviewers. I have too much focus on things that bothered me, that doing my HOTD vs book comparison, as well as GoT comparisons will be too slanted. The lack of rewriting this season explains a handful of issues, no doubt. However, there’s some fundamental plot directives that I disagree with that script revisions would not address. But your input will absolutely be implemented and credited. I just need more mental clarity before I finish that video.
Unpopular opinion, I'm glad Nettles doesn't exist in the TV show. The only reason why I say this is because the character in the book seemed to be mostly ficticious, similar to Mushroom. She literally read like a way to show division in the Blacks to help fuel the propaganda of the Greens. I get why people would like her; people like all sorts of characters. This one.....she seemed fake, especially with the lore of dragons / Valyria in the story.
This was a build up episode and not a finale episode, the should have gone for full 10 episodes! The HBO subscription isn't cheap, and waiting two years for 8 more episodes where the chance is high they gonna end again with a cliff hanger? People are gonna walk away to other show's where the get fan service. Im pretty okay with it, but won't won't pay a dime anymore for HBO. When I pay for a service, I don't want the feeling it is okay to rip me off for their own pockets. I want to see the show with a start, middle and end! That girl is still walking there with big eyes looking for her dragon, from our point of view she has 0% character only the want of wanting a dragon.. lol They could have giving her a character by writingh some scenes between her and Jayne.
Okay 👌 I'ma play devil's advocate 😎 and I was EXTREMELY pissed off about this episode at the end myself 😜 but I view this, and GOT, as an alternate reality 😎 and things happen a bit differently, because all this has to fit in with GOT, narratively and thematically, for better or worse 😎 this alternate Westeros DOES fit in with the original show 👌😎and now I'ma go ice my manly parts for the next 2 years until season 3😜🤣
Cole and Aemond attack on Harrenhal leaves Kings landing undefended. Daemon is forced to flee and links up with Rahneera and both take Kings Landing. This is the reason not because of Allisant stupid trip to Dragonstone. F this show...
All we do is complain these days sheeeesh I loved this set up season and I’m a book reader but I also know by now they are never gone to make ANYTHING exact to the source material in any media
Besides nettles i cant think of one thing that is a major change? They cant have ever character in the book in the show obviously they have a plan! George has been in the writer room for this season. The two shows are connected in a major way. Knight of the seven kingdoms will also connect all 3 shows together 100%.
no maelor who is significant to the end of the blacks, their is also the silent 5 who are against their house from corlys, alicent character was destroyed this season......
@@jjosifovic how as it destroyed ? We know really nothing about her from the start of the dance till the fall of kings landing? They are building the character not destroying two different things sir.
Book Alicent:" The city is yours, princess but you will not hold it long. The rats play when the cat is gone, but my son Aemond will return with fire and blood"
Show Alicent:" YAAASS QUEEN! SLAY MY SONS!"
“OF COURSE I WILL BETRAY MY ENTIRE FAMILY FOR YOU BESTIEE, LETS GO TO THE FOREST AND RUN AWAY TOGETHER!”
@@Alptanisto be fair one son is crippled beyond belief and literally says dying is a better option and the other one is a unhinged murderer
@@user-jw3bz5js2z Still, they are her children. And what about her brother, father, lover, daughter and granddauhter?
@@Alptanis well she only said a son for a son and the son she is talking about is the crippled handicap death wishing son pretty sure everyone else is spared
@@user-jw3bz5js2z
What about Daeron ?
I just cant believe Alicent managed to get to Dragonstone after Aemond ordered every single boat searched before leaving the harbour..
Exactly. Like why did the writers make him say that but Alicent shows up to Dragonstone like hey girl 🙃
Aemond kinda forgot
@@TaeSunWoo the writers forgot lol
- Robb laughing at Edmure during Hoster’s funeral. Blackfish then took the arrow from Edmure out of spite.
- Yara decided to leave Theon to die because the fully armored ironborn warriors are so afraid of a topless Ramsay that much.
- Lack of Tysha confession from Jaime.
- A complete absence of Lady Stoneheart.
GoT dropped some breadcrumbs of bad writing during the first 4 seasons before reaching the full-blown “bad poosy” era in season 5.
Meanwhile, HoTD reached the bad poosy era in just season 2 and Condal doesn’t even have the excuses of “lacking the source material” like D&D.
Lady stonehearts story was ass in the books. Yara ran when Ramsay released his doggos not cause of Rammy himself (even dumber tbh). Funeral scene was fine added a bit more context to Ed/Blackfish which we dont see as much in the show as compared to the books. Tysha was a missed opportunity but tbh I dont hate it, Tyrions obsession w tysha in dance was kinda cringe and I wasn't a big fan of it, tbh a worse sin was cutting out Fake Aegon/Golden co storyline.
So alicent went from jumping in front of a dragon to protect her children to betraying them over a walk in the woods (except for daeron that she doesn't even consider I guess)
Aemond is desperate to have haelena ride into battle but somehow doesn't think to mention that they killed her son and probably her daughter too if they win😂
Haelena that can now talk telephatically with people on the other side of the country somehow. And she also just spoiled the show for absolutely no reason, wtf was that seriously
Alicent is a destroyed character now after she betrayed her family who cares what her character does going forward …i don’t understand that decision smh
We got a filler episode as the season finale 😮💨
You should throw out your definition of “filler” with this. I can’t call it filler unless these scenes ultimately have no consequence, but the implications after these scenes narratively does concern me a bit.
@DCharles I was exaggerating for the lolz, but still. It's just an underwhelming episode bro.
It's more like they were setting things up
@@DCharles Exactly. There was no shortage of plot progression in this episode, even if I didn't particularly enjoy it.
@@DCharlesfiller is being used as an insult. Not trying to say it's actual by definition filler.
I didn't see Ulf as joking . I saw him as arrogant and rude.
I wanted to see him fed to the dragons.
I didn't think he deserved to claim silverwing in ep 7...and ep 8 proves it
I was completely turned off by Ulf's instant arrogance. I wasn't expecting perfect manners, but instant prick head felt out of place to me.
Season 1 was great. Season 2 has no replay value in my opinion..
Thank you for this genuine reaction. I agree with you.
As you, I thought that those Daemon's dreams and talks to Alys and failures with the rivermen were going to make him change, become more humble and devoted to his wife-queen. But no ! At last it was just FATE.
Oh Gods, I can't tell how much I HATE this choice !
But that did still play a major factor in Deamon changing. The white walker vision was not the one deciding factor in making him bend the knee, but just the culmination of everything that came before it. To me it seemed like he leaned into these dreams the more the season went on instead of “fighting” these visions. Especially when he finally cries out for help in the last one, literally saying out loud that he can’t do it himself. The final white walker vision was just the confirmation of this prophecy that is deeply rooted in Valyrian tradition with Aegons dream. Something he even condemned and wrote off in season 1. At least that’s how I took it. I understand where people think everything just came down to the white walker dream, but fail to acknowledge the progression of his dreams and his behavior within the dream and when he “wakes up”, because there’s a lot of subtle differences between them.
The worst part of Better Call Saul, the prequel to Breaking Bad, was when they (minor spoiler)
brought back Walter White and Jesse Pinkman as nostalgia baits because the show was that strong as a story of its own and in my opinion, it would have been much better without the inclusion of these two.
HoTD should focus on being a Dance of the Dragons story first and being a prequel much much later. If they can’t stand on their own, all these key-jangling won’t help them that much.
@@nont18411 yes but at least BCS didn't shove it down our throats. HOTD keeps forcing this song of ice and fire winter is coming prince that was promised plot line, as if the show revolved around this stupid prophecy.
I doubt Alicent or Helaena will die the way they did it the book. Also hate how they’re telling us about Aemonds death. No surprises.
You can’t go anywhere in the internet without people spoiling shit anyways. Even peoples thumbnails give shit away . I wish this was an entirely different story so I don’t have to constantly have shit spoiled. All of these characters die anyway which makes this story dumb anyways.
So many terrible moments throughout this episode. So through all of daemon haunting he still wants the throne n the army for himself it aint until a witch gives him a vision then he is suddenly team rhaenyra……
Helena suddenly has control of her visions and can see ur brothers death but she cant see her own sons death….what?
I refuse to believe this is the same alicent from season1 she genially is ok with rhaenyra killing her kids n still wants peace with her after daemon killed her grandson…..not to mention she gives away what aemond is planning so she is effectively giving a cheat code in the show….when in the book daemon was the one to secure kings landing through cunning….. a very mix episode for a very mixed season……
All of this 👍🏻
Yes it's annoying as a book reader I do expect more...
I've never seen so many character arcs butchered in a single episode. Lol
You must not have watched GOT
The s8 e5 is the worst of them all.
I thought we finally are getting a show with impactfull character development
@@scottdinser9483 we got punkd
The problem isn't that they were butchered. It's that there was no butchering of each other. The characters themselves are fine for the most part.
Yup. I hated it when he was called 'Tywin.' It was absurd. Took me out of it. I imagined all the casual 'show only' fans thinking it was cool, though 🤣.
I'm pretty sure there isn't even any reason they would say 'Tywin,' right? They knew he was a Lannister of Casterly Rock, but I don't think there have been any other Lords of Casterly Rock named Tywin, right? Definitely not any that anyone in Essos would know, I'd assume?
Yeah I thought that was really stupid. I still enjoyed the season overall but some of that season rubbed me the wrong way.
I’m pretty sure Lohar calls him Tymon! Not Tywin!
@@Gigipretty64Subtitles said she/he called him "Tywin" at least once
@@made-line7627 oh never mind then. I need new ears.
@@Daughterchasya yes
Among other things, I fear Daemon's character just got factory reset. Wasn't taking King's Landing when Aemond marches toward Harrenhal supposed to be his idea? Will he have any agency from this point forward? Sounds like he's resigned to being a plot device.
Like what happened to Jon Snow? Ooof, let's hope not,.
“Winter is coming” was a big deal before winter actually came. If hbo isn’t willing to make some sort of alternate ending for season 8 it would be best to stop referencing it.
As a show only watcher, the show lacks character development for sure. I dont feel attached to the characters very much. I have the sense that we are supposed to be rooting for team black, but im onyl entertained by the boys on Team Green only.
There are also a few other things that really take me out of the world, again, as a show only viewer.
The editing was bad. Especially the dream sequence.
Yeah I thought that was really poorly put together
They need to stop with the reference to Game of Thrones because unless they announce that there will be a rewrite of that story, they should try and stay away from it. (Daenerys is a mass murderer in the current canon, Show Thrones. So any references or links they try to make between her, Rhaenyra, and Daenerys are foolish.)
As for the rest, oh dear Alicent, what did they do to you.
The one scene I truly liked was the Daemon and Rhaenyra scene. The rest wasn't, maybe, except for the Jace and Hugh scenes, and Aegon was good, as always. The rest I disliked a lot.
Daemon Targaryen saying “winter is coming” is pretty strange to me
They keep reminding us that we hate the last couple seasons of GOT 😂😂
The whole season was basically filler except for 1 episode 😂 remember we were waiting 2 years for this! 😂
Exactly
I’ll be rewatching both seasons, too. I think the waiting every Sunday for a new episode can hurt the experience a little bit. I think watching 18 episodes back to back might be more enjoyable! 😊
My ADHD brain: Can’t accept the abysmally slow pace of HoTD this season.
Also, my very same ADHD brain: Loving Shogun a lot, despite its tiny flaws. It’s as if the problem is not really about that I want to see the battles all the time and can’t stand dialogue-driven scenes after all.
What’s the opposite of an Emmy award? Because I want to nominate this episodes editor for it. Choppy and amateurish.
What if maybe just maybe they’re going to change the lore and give us a an ending to the song of ice and fire that we deserve, instead of that dumpster fire of a last season.thats the way I’m looking at it.
I won't be back for the 3rd season of HOTD 👑⚔️🐉🔥 they pissed me off
I don’t know that I feel that way, but I’m very skeptical with a handful of upcoming plot points.
I'm still excited for it. I just need more ASOIAF in my life, even if they change things that they shouldn't occasionally. I'm invested 🏳️
Same……I’d rather listen to audiobook again
How can they not talk about prophecy in Dunk and Egg if Bloodraven is in it?
I wish Corlys had more internal conflict with Rhaenyra bc of Rhaenys’ death. Maybe even a convo with Rhaenys that she’s making a mistake or that he doesn’t want her to die, something about the risk of going to Rook’s Rest.
I also wish we saw Baela grieving for her grandmother.
Do your thing, pay no attention to personal criticism. There will always be someone complaining no matter what. Complaining is a lifestyle now, can’t please everyone all the time.
Hopefully season 3 can just show most of all the cool stuff in the books
Dumbest finale ever
Worse than Arya killing the Night King?
All I have to say is “what’s west of Westeros?”
@@GeeNoniGeeafter that episode aired every after show channel was full of comments defending arya and the writers choices.
It wasnt until rhaegal died and they showed that scene of dany withoit makeup.... Thats when they all realized they were wrong about dany and that it was now bad writing.
If you dont believe me go back and read things posted before episode 4 aired.
The Tywin remark annoyed me soooooo much
Mate I share a lot of your issues.
They have ruined the show in my opinion
Cheers for the upload.
Show-only fan here.
I'm loving the show, along with the 'slower' episodes that try some others' patience, which I find baffling as GRRM writes in so much detail (how many buttons a waist-coat has - yawn) that the plot sinks into molasses constantly.
Unfortunately I saw plenty of spoilers (mostly through inconsiderate upload titles) for upcoming HOTD events, although even without these, there are spoilers within the actual show such as Aemond's fate being revealed in the last episode (why ruin surprise?) or Daemon's (potentially) via Alice's first words to him, which I can't fathom at all.
I'm happy with the show taking time to breathe and I'm all for the development of the characters, and although I was completely underwhelmed by the final episode, the set-up is at least complete.
My only complaints about the show (other than the spoilers within it) are the occasional repetition of dialogue, such as Rhaenyra's indecision ("What would you have me do"), or the Daemonhal sub-plot running on a little longer than I'd have liked.
Can't wait for season 3.
I did feel like this episode wasn't great as a finale but giving it a day to hit me I think this episode did its job. It makes us want more as the audience which as a show runner is a job well done.
It was your essays that brought me to your channel. The raw takes are great imo, unscripted just initial thoughts to the episode. Putting the episode into a bubble basically whereas your essays look at the whole of the content. So in a way, it can compare how that truly can change ones perspective.
I first found out about ASOIAF near the end of Season 5 of GoT. I watched the first five seasons as fast as I could, because the show was so good and that universe was so captivating!
I watched and rewatched my favorite scenes and bought the first three books of the series. While reading them, I was amazed at the fact that no matter good the Show was, the books were even better, either in terms of character depth and historytelling. This being said, the first 4 seasons were the show peak (especially 2 and 3, in my opinion). Season 5, however, was, for lack of a better word, slow; Season 6 was better, but the cracks in storytelling were even more noticeble. And then... Well, the show died! The only way I could still "enjoy" it was by pretending these were non-canonical seasons (a kind of "What if" show).
Even after all these years, I can't help but feel betrayed by the showrunners, and this comes from someone who doesn't consider himself part of a "fanbase", "fandom" or something like it.
Long story short, I chose to watch HoTD because I had hope i could remember the feeling of the first seasons of Got. Instead, my hopes are being slowly crushed while I have to endured the showrunnes bragging about those stupid "prophecies" that will turned out to be bs (Yes, i talking about that garbage "long night" from season 8)!
I'll still watch the show and try enjoying some characters and plots, but isn't that sad that they failed so early in the story?
I LOVED this episode!!!! I did not see the Damon ending at all....I loved how it it came full circle it was all to prepare him for the prophecy.
Watching it after already watching it multiple times is not going to change your opinion on the extremely poor writing decisions for this season.
It wasn't a good episode
We need more raw takes
For a season that couldn’t get rewrites due to a strike and that had a reduced episode count, I’m think the writers did a pretty good job.
What are your thoughts about the insistence to attach itself to GoT via prophecy?
@@DCharles i'd have told them to do that
Central Cee didn’t even get his dragon in the vale
😂😂😂
This deserves more likes 👏
@@JONBONESMAKINGTHEBOYSMOAN Thankyou sir
Youre doing well at these takes. I prefer the um n ahs as i know its unscripted and a genuine opinion/discussion.
💯HOTD or should I say 'The Rhaenyra Show' is pure fan fiction at this point, or fan service to give modern audiences and former Daenerys fans a new badass warrior dragon queen. The show runner is constantly breaking the lore to push his own narrative, he thinks he can own the story and do better than the source material. Both Rhaenyra and Alicent are so different in the book, they are powerful women in a male dominatad world but no victims, they're willing participants in all the political decisions and scheming, that's how GRRM likes to write his characters, no one is blameless in his world, and Rhaenyra's character is as cruel as the rest of the players. The point of the book's story is that thirst for power can tear entire families apart, while in the show it's more about feminism and the evil patriarchy, very popular themes these days. Martin has been subtly critisizing the writers, he found aspects of the adaptation quite problematic, like Blood&Cheece for instance, he also recently quoted: 'Ignore canon and the world you've created comes apart like tissue paper.' The show is not even loosely based on the Fire&Blood book, and its unreliable narrators are far less biased than Condal the Rhaenyra simp.
why even bring uo the white walkers? They weren't even important in the series. Turned out to be nothing.
Exaclty, man!
That's one thing that diminishes my interest in the series at this point... I started watching HoTD because I wanted to be immersed in that world and forget about how they killed it in the first place. Why do the showrunners think the audience needs to be reminded of those stupid seasons 7 and 8? (5 and 6 were bad, but it's not even close)
I feel exactly the way you said you did about the ending. Still digesting but want so much to love it!
Im thinking that the war itself isnt really meaningful or impactful because alicent misunderstands when in books it wasnt that way she believes she was doing by usurping and putting her son on the throne despite her husbands wishes... this wouldnt make her totally evil because she did it for her own reasons like aemond killing luce it was impactful all the way to kingslanding.. aemond thought he would get an welcome and thanks for starting this war but he was wrong only one who supported him was aegon the king his brother why are they rivals again.... i dont understand if aemond calculating in the show why he would try harming aegon..
I agree about the levity! From Ulf to the Triarchy scenes… it felt wrong to have so much humor added in the finale… the house that dragon built mentioned the director wanted to add that and I’m not sure the director was aware of the wider scope of the show or just focused on what she could bring to that single episode…. I’ll be back for season 3 though. The story has so much more I’d love to see coming soon. 🤞🏻
This episode felt like.. A FINGER IN THE BUM
I feel like what is up is down. I remember watching season 7 of GOT and all I heard was how good it was and I was wanting to vomit with the Jon/Dany love story because I felt it was forced, shoved done our throat with no time for development. Now I am hearing how much people hate HOTD and I am still enjoying it even with its flaws. I am a book reader and a show watcher. I guess I misunderstood GRRM and the way he writes prophecy. I guess Raygar never did anything because of prophecy. The two year break between 1 and 2 beat this season. I think the pacing is disjointed not necessarily slow. I think if it had been only a year break the slow burn of this season would not have been so much of a disappointment for people. I am starting to want to disengage from the fandom because its just to ugly. I like reviews that focus on both the good and the flaws. From some of the channels I've watched it is as if there is no good in this episode, and because the show is not each persons own head cannon its the worst show ever. I will patiently do the next two year break until the show producers finally realize two year breaks on shows ruins them.
Why attach it to game of thrones after they failed us by the end of it... why even destroy these characters to do all these things i am annoyed we didnt even see aemond burn the castle why are they doing this to these characters now haelena wont be able to go mad just because she is a full dreamer now and controls her dreams and able to telepath and talk to daemon... i am just disappointed.. i am a book reader and understand changed but not on this scale this is dumb in my opinion they making daemon weaker minimizing the GOAT in this war... game of thrones and dance of dragon should be seperate because they are seperate.... if you ignore history,cannon or lore and you create your own... how could you spoil the show though haelena🤔 you should be able to see bits n pieces in order to go mad
This show should in no way reference GOT.
In short. It was fucking awful, 1 out of 10
16:03 this is a major issue with the entire show up to now I think.. things happen and then they’re almost immediately forgotten about or resolved with no real conflict or consequences .. and it makes everything feel like it’s worthless and nothing matters .. especially when u add in the heavy handed prophecy stuff, ur basically telling the audience on multiple fronts that nothing these characters do actually matters.. which is an insane thing to portray to ur audience lol ur almost ensuring no one is gonna care about ur show, and if I hadn’t read the books I’m not so sure I’d have any interest in watching this show anymore after this season.. my wife hasn’t read the books and she hasn’t even watched S2 yet, she completely lost interest by the time S1 was over, and I can’t even really push her or recommend her to watch this season cuz I think it’s, in a lot of ways, worse than S1 or ar least not much better .. just the way they’re telling this story is not very interesting or satisfying
People some “not all”but especially the ones calling it boring or a snooze festival should know that this show will be 3 seasons that we know of therefore why on gods earth would they start killing off all the the main characters within two season’s.
Next season we will be losing characters left and right episode after episode.
A rollercoaster 🎢 of emotional losses just like GOT started to feel once the build up was over.
I get it, I thought him talking to a witch all season was overkill but in the book it’s took him years to realize those things.
With that logic you wouldn’t be able to make it thru nor enjoy the book because you want action with no reasoning behind it.
It’s coming and the end ain’t a fairytale so have patience and stop hate watching .
Imagine paying a subscription to hate watch a show💀😩
I’ve seen very few comments on my channel reference anything you’re addressing here.
Ryan confirmed it will be four seasons.
I'm still looking forward to season 3 but after that episode I'm definitely a bit more iffy about how it's going to play out. That was a pretty weak final episode the whole got vision in the godswood was stupid and I knew they were going to do that from the moment they started talking about the song of ice and fire in season one I called it a year ago when discussing the show. Allicent just giving up is just a stupid writing choice and is a complete 180 of her character. Aegons great as always though hands down the best character this season by a mile.
I’m down with the Larry Aegon road trip tho lol
Well.. I really tried but this show is soooo boring, the last seasons of GOT were so dumb that at least they were entertainingly bad, HOTD is just a snoozefest
I don't think it's boring personally but I get why people feel that way. I feel like this season was a massive wasted opportunity I feel like nothing happened for a lot of the season and aside from a few plot points a lot of the characters are in the same position they were at the start of the season.
It’s only 3 season why would they go and kill everyone off in the first two seasons, it’s not boring you just have no patience and don’t understand a build up.
Yes I’m just as tired of the no action but it will come and you will lose a character show after show next season.
Imagine reading the book with this logic.
@@goated3285 Yea nah I don't understand build up that's why I loved the first half of GOT so much, GTFOH with that bullshit man, there's a difference between building up and staying stuck in a standstill
Imagine being able to understand that I wouldn't have to wait 2 years between each chapters if I was reading the book, and again there's interesting build up and boring build up, this season was the latter, and when did I say anything about characters needing to be killed btw lol ?
If thw point was that Bran manipulated all of this to get himself on the throne, or if the point was that the characters were falsely interpreting visions of the future as some kind of destiny they need to fulfill, even though we know that the ascension of Daenerys Targaryen was completely pointless and literally accomplished nothing and had absolutely zero impact on fighting the white walkers, that would be interesting.
But i think theyre trying to say that this would all be straightforwardly necessary destiny.
we feel your pain - will you use what i said?
100% I’m just reworking that video now that the season is complete and I’ve got the entirety of all episodes to reflect upon. Also, I want to get through some rewatches, detached from other reviewers. I have too much focus on things that bothered me, that doing my HOTD vs book comparison, as well as GoT comparisons will be too slanted. The lack of rewriting this season explains a handful of issues, no doubt. However, there’s some fundamental plot directives that I disagree with that script revisions would not address. But your input will absolutely be implemented and credited. I just need more mental clarity before I finish that video.
Tywin Lannister killed it this episode, though 🔥
I fell asleep standing up watching it…
Why does everyone love Nettles in the book?
Bro i waste my time watching this episode
Unpopular opinion, I'm glad Nettles doesn't exist in the TV show. The only reason why I say this is because the character in the book seemed to be mostly ficticious, similar to Mushroom. She literally read like a way to show division in the Blacks to help fuel the propaganda of the Greens. I get why people would like her; people like all sorts of characters. This one.....she seemed fake, especially with the lore of dragons / Valyria in the story.
This was a build up episode and not a finale episode, the should have gone for full 10 episodes! The HBO subscription isn't cheap, and waiting two years for 8 more episodes where the chance is high they gonna end again with a cliff hanger? People are gonna walk away to other show's where the get fan service.
Im pretty okay with it, but won't won't pay a dime anymore for HBO.
When I pay for a service, I don't want the feeling it is okay to rip me off for their own pockets. I want to see the show with a start, middle and end! That girl is still walking there with big eyes looking for her dragon, from our point of view she has 0% character only the want of wanting a dragon.. lol
They could have giving her a character by writingh some scenes between her and Jayne.
oscar tully wouldnt have let this be the finale
Okay 👌 I'ma play devil's advocate 😎 and I was EXTREMELY pissed off about this episode at the end myself 😜 but I view this, and GOT, as an alternate reality 😎 and things happen a bit differently, because all this has to fit in with GOT, narratively and thematically, for better or worse 😎 this alternate Westeros DOES fit in with the original show 👌😎and now I'ma go ice my manly parts for the next 2 years until season 3😜🤣
I want to love this show. I do. But sarah hess has to leave. Its too woke
Huh?
Cole and Aemond attack on Harrenhal leaves Kings landing undefended. Daemon is forced to flee and links up with Rahneera and both take Kings Landing. This is the reason not because of Allisant stupid trip to Dragonstone. F this show...
It was possibly the worst season finale in the history of television. It’s like the writers set out to intentionally piss off the fan base.
Ok I’ve listened to it several times and Lohar doesn’t call Tyland, Tywin, she says Tymon. I’m like 80% sure
im 82.3% sure your wrong 🙄🙄🙄
@@batchagaloopytv5816 Damn. Can’t argue with math and subtitles.
All we do is complain these days sheeeesh I loved this set up season and I’m a book reader but I also know by now they are never gone to make ANYTHING exact to the source material in any media
Show sucks
Besides nettles i cant think of one thing that is a major change? They cant have ever character in the book in the show obviously they have a plan! George has been in the writer room for this season. The two shows are connected in a major way. Knight of the seven kingdoms will also connect all 3 shows together 100%.
Aemond trying to kill Aegon is at the very least a departure in characterizing their relationship.
no maelor who is significant to the end of the blacks, their is also the silent 5 who are against their house from corlys, alicent character was destroyed this season......
@@jjosifovic how as it destroyed ? We know really nothing about her from the start of the dance till the fall of kings landing? They are building the character not destroying two different things sir.
@@wKFadedwhat even is her character?
K
You guys are babies man
I think we should just lower our expectations
I'm being a "baby" simply because I found the writing of the show disappointing?
No they just don’t simp for bad writing.
So what bothered you was him being called Tywin and not him being used as an allegory for Fertility Clinics for lesbians?
This fanbase is truly doomed
Yeah. That part you’re referring to didn’t bother me at all. I’m glad it triggered you though.
@@DCharles😂 get em
This show should in no way reference GOT.