I recently bought this DAC and I love it! It's true that everything I listen to sounds beautiful. I can listen all day and never get tired of the natural sounds coming out of this DAC. Much appreciated Steve!
Your video review description of the Border Patrol DAC SE intrigued me. It sounded exactly what I had been seeking, but unable to find in the UK. I ordered one for audition and you were spot-on in every way (except that my unit plays 24/96 perfectly ). I was mightily impressed and bought it without hesitation. Thank you so much Steve.
Thanks Steve for this review I bought the SE version recently and am so grateful for it as it matches my system so well. Sweet and so full bodied midrange. Takes the digital edge and glare off the midrange which I really dig it.
Hi Steve, thks for the review. I don't use a dedicated dac currently (in my mid-end hifi setup) & was wondering 1. Whether it'll make a significant difference in SQ? 2. Are R2R dacs more analog sounding even though it can't do as high a resolution as sigma delta dacs? Appreciate your thoughts, thks
Steve, do you still have this dac and if so how do you things it's holds up to the Aries, Terminator? Your subjective thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Ty
I connected my Fiio x5 gen 2 DAP into my Peachtree Grand Pre and the sound is absolutely stunning. A relatively inexpensive Hi Res device that plays all music files with built-in EQ. As far as I'm concerned, it's the Giant Killer no ones seems to be talking about. It sound so good, I no longer use my external Dac and MacBook. Crystal Clear error free music finally. It also sounds spectacular run through my Chord Mojo. Highly recommended.
The same Phillip's TDA1541 chip that is in my still working 1985 Magnavox CDB-650 cd player? ( I've seen the CDB-650 all over Craigslist for $75 to $150) it has 2 RCA outputs, & one of them is filtered through an el84 Tube. A single din output aswell. It has one Rca & one Din input too. If the internal transport ever dies I can use it as a DAC with an external cd transport :)
... hola Señor Steve, que DAC me recomiendas para mi sala de escucha que principalmente es para escuchar música de USB, MP3, CZcams y quizá Netflix Un DAC que no me rompa el banco Gracias Steve
Do you think this DAC would pair well with Def Tech Demand D11 speakers? The D11's are definitely more relaxed and warm than comparable speakers, but would it be too dark and relaxed with a DAC like this?
DAC,s don't pair with speakers. You need to have your entire system right and then arrange to hear it in your system. Join a club or work closely with a dealer so you could arrange to hear it in your home. Once your system is set up correctly your speakers will be working to their full potential and you will clearly hear the difference in DACs. As a member of a club you can borrow components from a member to see if you like them.
I just pulled the trigger and ordered one today after so many glowing reviews. Current system: Fostex HP-A8 Dac Perla Audio Sig 50 integrated Focal Sopra 2 speakers Can't wait to try it out! I'll report back.
Just an FYI for those put off by the options stated on his site. I emailed Gary about the DAC and he's willing to install any combination of 2 inputs, including toslink.
I just bought cambridge audio dacmagic plus, used for 150€. I´m happy because i can get my genelec speakers connected to it via XLR. Good purchase and cheap :)
For shoestring budget SMSL M8A is exceptionally good (or just good enough for the hi end guys). You can even use it battery operated with a power bank. Would be better with an Amanero USB chip, but still I like it and bought two of them (the second for $180)
It is interesting and true to some degree, that limited bandwidth vinyl still has something special that wider bandwidth hi res digital can't quite get to or match, and I came to a similar humble conclusion that adding tubes does warm up and round off the clinical bit beasts...really well! So perhaps that great old adage .. less is more ...is still very true!?
The Philips TDA1543 chip or chips in this DAC were the low end chips of their day. I have a Starting Point Systems DAC 3 which uses this chip and I really liked the natural sound of it until the lack of detail started to irritate me. According to most people who enjoy the sound of NOS (non oversampling) DAC's the chip you really want is the Philips TDA1541. I think it's ridiculous to be charging this much for a TDA1543 DAC and the %50 increase in price for both usb and spdif is hilarious. I would rather have a Schiit Multibit, Metrum, or Audial if I was spending this kind of money on a DAC.
The same 1541 chip thats in my 1985 Magnavox CDB-650 CD player. You can find them on craigslist for $75 to $150..has an el84 tube in one of the 2 rca outs. That's a far better deal than this $900 to $1,350 DAC with an inferior 1543 chip.. for shure
I picked up on you saying it used an old Philips Dac chip. I have an old Alchemist Nexus apd32a cd player that uses two Philips tda1549 Dac chips and we love it. Gives real dimension and life to cds. I would buy another one in a heart beat just to have a spare. Still not as good as records but really close. I have heard this chip was only made for 2 years and is very rare I wonder if they are using the same chip?
Interesting. I guess there's a widely-held notion that latest is greatest in the digital game. Out comes a fancy new ESS Saber DAC, or whatever, and last year's cutting edge equipment is consigned to history. That ignores the fact that there have been some great DACs and CD players down the years and I have been wondering when "retro" units might surface. Seems it's already happening. Not sure I agree with putting tubes in them though. My preference is to send the best possible and purest signal into my tube amp and that will have an even better effect. Useful if you're a solid state user though, I guess.
$1200 Not crazy expensive for a DAC? Seriously Steve? Sure, it is a great sounding DAC and more bang for the buck than DACs costing twice as much, but $1200 is to expensive for this audiophile on a budget!
I don’t want to be overly critical about the guy but I agree. He’s in the super high end world all day everyday so I guess 1200 isn’t really expensive when you look at it from his perspective. To the Joe Schmo like myself it’s extremely expensive. I’d really love to find a channel that reviewed stuff that I could afford middle of the road stuff to a budget conscious type of audiophilewannabe. Like I’ve been checking out the Oppo Sonica DAC/Streamer kind of an all in one unit but that’s not considered audiofilish enough for certain circles. Everyone’s raving about the Chord Qutest DAC and yea I’m sure it’s awesome but it’s 2grand!
If you're in the market for a good DAC for a reasonable price, check this out. www.parts-express.com/smsl-sanskrit-6-32-bit-192-khz-usb-dac-coaxial-optical-decoder--230-228
@Dale Huber, are you familiar with the concept that *implementation* is more important than the silicon chip ? If not, I have great news - stick with your phone as everything else will be a massive waste of money.
I agree, is not crazy money... the thing is with these companies is that they should offer an in-house session with the equipment cos you can't just go to your local hi-fi store and hear it.
I know what you're talking about, I use a similar old-Philips-chip-based, NOS dac. I've made a few improvements to it over time and it just sounds AWSOME (AND a n a l o g ! even at very high frequencies, even violins and cymbals sound smooth and analog with very good distinction and deployment of their higher harmonics! Not to mention body and 3Dimensionality! In fact, this dac was the reason why I haven't moved up to hi-res yet (although I do use hi-res recordings, downsampled to 16-44.1 because IT DOES make a difference). I'm not sure if I'll get the same quality from a hi-res dac, it'll have to be very expensive.
Agreed, technology upgrade fatigue trying to own the latest tech, gets u to the point of frustration to keep pace, vs. economical gear, like Schitt DACs....may be best bet. One last thought, if we focus on the enjoyment.....of music, and what realistic gear we can...afford.....all is good....crank up the music!
I wonder if I can get a free one since I'm a Maryland resident. I live down the street from the guy who owns VVT amps and he hasn't given me one yet, so maybe not. I am thinking about getting an HH Scott 299b refurbished by Mapleshade, so I will probably only have around $100 for a DAC. Schitt it is. Unless someone can recommend a good DAC kit.
Yep the TDA1451 Philips chip does sound amazing. Instead of paying so much , consider buying a vintage player off EBay. I scored the Marantz PM 75 , a 100 W Amplifier with a DAC unit which has the silver crown version of this TDA 1451 chip and it sounds superlative for around $300
can you do a video or direct me to a video of yours that covers the likes of teac cd-p650b marantz cd-6006 (or relevant substitute) and yamaha cd-s300? or at least products in that class. i mainly just need a dac to run my iphone through usb with instead of settling with the 3.5mm headphone jack. obviously $1200 is a drop in the bucket for true audiophiles when it comes to a dac considering how expensive they do get. i think some weekend warrior audiophiles forget just what comes with audiophilia at times. im sure you helped a lot of people into owning one of these DAC’s with this video
I'm about to find out if your 'good' is my 'good' ! Yesterday arranged for a Border Patrol DAC SE to travel to the UK for audition. I was intrigued because you sounded so sincerely impressed with the way it "just sounds so good", that I just had to listen for myself. Keep up the 'good' work :)
Astro boySteve’s description is spot-on. This DAC is mellow, slightly dark and very rich in tone. Lacks the harsh, sharp edge character of many other DACs, yet still has detail and dynamics. If it were a speaker it would be a Harbeth rather than a Focal ! A DAC that you can relax into for many hours without fatigue. I bought the SE version . It’s more than stands up to scrutiny through my Quad electrostatics. Much of the sound quality of the MSB Analog DAC At a tenth of the price:) My particular unit plays 24/96 files perfectly, maybe that’s a quirk.
@@siletteman thank you for your reply! Would you say it is a true giant killer like the reviews say, in terms of air, openness and just realism? Or is it just a matter of flavor and personal taste (rolled off round lush Harbeth sound) when putting it against other Dacs at this pricing? I'm just wondering because right now I'm upgrading my entire upstream and those characteristics can be achieved via other components. Thanks again!
Astro boy I don’t know about “giant killer”. I do know that I have compared it directly to PS Audio is Direct stream DAC Running red cloud software and it comes very close. The direct stream is not quite as good as the MSB , which is the most analog sounding dark I have ever heard (and I’ve heard a lot!). Both of these decks are very highly regarded so for this one to come close he is quite an achievement for the price. 50 years of listening to audio components tells me that you never get everything in One package There is always a compromise, you just have to choose which elements are the most important to you Also you can never go completely by any review because their personal taste and review equipment is never the same as yours. The best you can do is to find a reviewer whose taste seems to be the same as yours and then audition any recommended items of interest in your own system. Synergy between components is so very important. The advantage with border patrol is that they give you a trial period so that you can hear for your own judgement. I have not noticed any lack of air or detail but my opinion could be different to yours so ultimately one just has to suck it and see:) Hope that some help. Good luck with the upgrading, try to listen to everything together rather than one of the time, Because that Synergy thing is so important. And yes that does include cables!
Im late to the party here but i still want one. Cant justify the 1k+ price. I often use an older nos 4x tda1543 dac. Surely not a match for the BorderPatrol but i like it much better than the newer budget "measurement" dacs that ive tried.
I must say the merits go to the Philips TDA1543 chips as well. I had one of these NOS (Non-OverSampling) DACs in the past and I must say it sounded beautiful - 3-dimensional, full, natural and organic. None of that digital harshness. Such DAC needs a very good power supply though. The reason why I sold it was because I needed something with better soundstage and depth.
Kopi O Kaya to get the most out of the tda1543 you need to parallel them. Computer Audio Design does this. But Border Patrol’s implementation may be the exception.. I prefer the tda1545 for a single stereo chip on a budget. But I still like the tda1541a the best for Philips multibit.. For Burr Brown, I like the pcm1704..
Kopi O Kaya . I have two Philips tda1549 chips in my old Alchemist Nexus cd player and it sound amazingly 3 demensional and detailed. Philips made some great Dac chips.
Rick G : Yes, mine was eight TDA1543 chips in parallel... Agree that TDA1541A (especially the twin crown version) is a better DAC chip. By the way, I am using Burr Brown PCM63P DAC now. It is also a NOS-type R2R DAC.
Hi, People say do a blind test on audio "320kbs 44khz or Flac 1441kbs 48khz" and you will not hear the difference , if you pitch the song/audio down 1/2 speed or slower you will hear the difference , you can tell between the two formats . If you boost bass or treble on 320kbs mp3 you can notice the compression/artifacts a lot more than you can with Flac, providing the recording came from a good source to start with. This is nearly the same principle as video bit-rate , resolution etc . Think of the DAC as a GPU for a moment . With high quality video you can zoom in , slow down, speed up and no degraded video . To me an "mp4 1080p video" full of noise and compression artifacts is equivalent to "mp3 320kbs" that people think is suitable or they cannot tell the difference because they are still watching on a 1080p tv... or listening on a older Samsung device. When you see HEVC and 8K video running properly on capable hardware, you will grasp the difference. No stair step effect , no aliasing etc ... Not to mention that what ever you are watching or listening to, has its own version of encoder or decoder which vary sound and vision. Up-sampler's, up-scaling, oversampling, No thank you Once you have high quality audio, routed through a proper DAC, routed into decent equipment, at line level voltage, no silly headphone out jacks . It should then sound pure . Play with mp3 and/or a cheap DAC with a good sound system or monitors ......Only then at a decent volume you will hear the artifacts in mp3 or terrible bit error production ..... A + B Compare everything hahahahahha
Because it's stored digitally then converted to analog for playback a lot of the time. And cd quality is 7x higher than mp3 on your phone. So if you want to hear real music as it was intended as if the band is playing directly to you in your room then you need a dac and maybe a headphone amp at the least. And if you want to hear it sound naturally as if the voices and guitar strings are really in the room and almost tangible, you need a great dac.
Stevarino,....when are you going to get your LP's /albums straightened up and not falling over and getting bent and warped out of shape? Get busy. NOW!
Every DAC product offers adjectives and promises to sound better. Can you offer a quantifiable number that proves the quality of sound, or present recordings that show a bad DAC vs the BorderPatrol DAC?
@@lwwells I used to own a Mojo some 3 years ago but had to return it because its headphone jacks was losing sound. I remember the Mojo sounding slightly wider and softer than the Audioquest Dragonfly Red. Now a days I use an old Apogee Mini Dac and I've never been happier with sound wide and with dept and crisp, but sometimes I wonder how the Mojo fairs side by side against the Mini Dac. I still own a Dragon Fly Red it doesn't come anywhere near the quality of the Mini Dac
@@GeorgeNYer I haven't heard the Apogee, but I have an AQ red next to me. To my ears, the AQ sounds very "digital" and I would describe this as harsh. Perhaps this is what you mean by the mojo sounding softer. The big difference between the mojo at other DAC's I've used has been soundstage depth. For example, the AQ presents depth as distinct thin layers. There may be two or three layers with some space between them. It doesn't make a very convincing image. However, the mojo puts instruments on a continuous scale for depth. I find this is much easier to hear when you use speakers. I have some really nice cIEMS from Alclair.com (RSM4 and studio 4's) and I find the mojo is more enjoyable than the AQ with them. But when I use some modest studio monitors (Emotive Airmotiv 4s) the difference is night and day. The mojo feels like it's actually reproducing the soundstage.
Why would one need a DAC if your CD player has a quality one to begin with? My CD players have a Burr-Brown or a Cirrus Logic DAC, which sound fantastic! Do DAC's really make that much of a difference for those of us using CD players as our main source?
It has more correct tone and timbre especially with acoustic instruments and the human voice.. If implemented well, their weaknesses relative to more ‘modern’ oversampling dacs are not as apparent, re: multibit nos dacs..
O yes, you can say that: 'it sounds...analogue!' All reviewers of my North Star Design Extremo DAC said that and I know exactly what you mean :-) $1350 for a very good sounding DAC is cheap btw! Thanks for the review.
Hi Steve, love the reviews. However, if could do one thing for us subscribers, this would be helpful. Please list the name of the product you are reviewing with a link to said product in the details section. Often when I watch your reviews, I want to research the product and you do not provide these details which can be kind of frustrating :-).
I am sure you know what only 30% of the price of this DAC can buy. AudioGD R2R 11 or Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon or Fostex HP-A4BL And these are combos, not just DAC, and they can do DSD too, if you would like to have that option, and 16bit FLAC files sound really good on them too. Your video is actually quite appealing. Despite that, it is unclear why a good-sounding DAC should cost that much.
At $12 an hour, it would take more than 80 hours of work to pay for the $1000 version. Good news, though. The average US wage is double that, so only 40+ hours! You definitely don't live in the real world, where even $500 is a lot for many of us. This is why my gear came from Goodwill.
Richard Larson Slow your roll maybe, sure it is expensive, he is claiming not crazy expensive. In this category, $2k-3k is expensive, $20k-30k is crazy expensive. Yes those exist.
Just do some Reasearch. You can get a Luxman 100 used for $350 for instance. If he recommends it it's probably pretty good. Dac's for the moment hold thier resale even in Foreign markets , and become obsolete quickly. Search Meridian , I have seen those used with Luxman integrated's which are spectacular.
mike young I used to think like you, until I actually used a good one. There are ways to get a quality DAC for cheap and it's worth the investment, that is unless your current audio card or source unit already has a quality chip.
The real problem is that after 35 years of digital formatting, the music world has yet to accept an industry standard so we all can move forward, instead of back and forth. Until that happens, if it ever does, be careful how much you spend on a DAC.
Very possibly true. But it all depends on what type of formatting will be used to comprise a digital file ten years from now. This is my main point, as of now there is no standard, which leads to the current MQA fiasco. One has to wonder what is coming next.
Man, that's pretty expensive for a 1543... they been selling 8x and 16x 1543 design's on ebay for more then a decade steve... Teradak chameleon, or Teradak.
Okay, (hey Steve) I've had this DAC in my system at the behest of Scot Hull and first thing that should be noted is it has a really high output impedance, something like 4-5k. So if you use a passive pre look elsewhere. I use an autoformer which should deal with the High Z better then a stepped attenuator it still didn't cut the mustard. Second is I found the sound to be the complete opposite of what you'd get with a Sabre based DAC which is a bit clinical, detail retrieval based sound that easily results in a cerebral experience rather then an emotional experience. This is why people, my friends that are reviewers, love this DAC. It's fun. but I don't think it's the proverbial 'best thing since sliced bread'. An inexpensive DAC that is. The Schiit Bifrost Multibit. It is having your 'cake an eating it too'. I've had some very expensive digital and this little guy is the best sounding unit I've used. I find it to be very musical while also letting you hear what's on the recording. In the world of digital music that is a rare attribute.
hello it seems to me that it is less lively than the "little" musician draco which in my opinion has a simply incredible value for money .... only 675 dollars at the moment ....
Okay, that's it I am finally tired of this audiophile business baloney. It is for people who have have a mountain of dollars, or disposable income; or are crazy for a new technology. However, a DAC may not be for everybody's choice, Steve. Yes, according to Michael Ping there is a very affordable alternative. Thanks again, Michael.
Dac, Dacs, What the heck? When it comes to Dacs, they are pretty hard to do a hood sound review about them. However, based on my experience with Dacs, There is little difference between the sound quality of a $5000 dollar dac....and a $2000 dollar dac. In fact, the dac that I am using right now is, an unsampling dac with a tube buffer stage and it's the best I've heard so far. Cost.... $500.00 U.S.
If you spend $1200 on DAC than you don't have to buy CD player, turntable and streamer. It should work well with $4000 integrated amplifier + $4000 speakers.
I wonder if 1200$ dac actually sound better than 300$, 2000$, we should get together and blind test these equipment and do a statistical analysis to see whether any of these stuff make sense. Am I wasting my money on these expensive equipment and at the end no one can tell difference? Is it really worth spending 1200$ on a single equipment. I like good quality sound but some times i wonder that with a large sample people cant actually decide objectively which equipment sounds better. I think people may prefer equipment subjectively and that may not correlate to the price of equipment after certain price point, similar to watches. 300$ watch can keep the time as good as a 10000$ watch... the minuscule increase in time keeping is irrelevant to anybody. Its just fashion statement.
You do realize that most all of these are just an inexpensive DAC chip in a fancy box....right? The chips can be $10 - $100 with likely a $3,000 DAC using the $100 chip....(maybe). It might just be using the cheapest crap! There's NO REASON WHATSOEVER for ANY DAC to cost more than a few hundred bucks. Sorry....that's a fact JACK! Please, stop already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have never seen a DAC chip over $10 Burr Brown,Saber,AKM ect. The output stage is what counts is it a cheap OP amp or a discrete output. I have two DAC's one cost $100 new and one cost me $250 used they both use the same Burr Brown chip and the sound is night and day. You get what you pay for. I agree the price of DAC's is crazy.
Border Patrol ? What does that have to do with audiophilia ? Smacks of underlying meaning which just doesn't sit right with me. I would've liked to know if it made your records or cd's or files sound better. Maybe all 3. Border Patrol .... hmmm .... comes with it's own Maga cable ?
There's no point in hi-rez it is snake oil anything really above 48 kHz actually is worse it causes noise if you go above this what's the point anyway you're hearing is only 16 kHz.
$1,200 Steve cheap I'm not spending more than three hundred on a DAC ever again the difference is well I don't really know the difference all I know is I've had thousand-dollar Dac and then I've had a regular CD player and then I've had a $300 dac and you know Steve there wasn't much of a difference you're better off spending that $1,200 on a decent amp!!!😎
Frederick Franchi what DACs specifically for $300 &$1000. My gungnir $650 bought used is quite good.but the rest of your equipment chain must be of better quality, especially speakers.
I recently bought this DAC and I love it! It's true that everything I listen to sounds beautiful. I can listen all day and never get tired of the natural sounds coming out of this DAC. Much appreciated Steve!
Your video review description of the Border Patrol DAC SE intrigued me. It sounded exactly what I had been seeking, but unable to find in the UK. I ordered one for audition and you were spot-on in every way (except that my unit plays 24/96 perfectly ). I was mightily impressed and bought it without hesitation. Thank you so much Steve.
Thanks Steve for this review I bought the SE version recently and am so grateful for it as it matches my system so well. Sweet and so full bodied midrange. Takes the digital edge and glare off the midrange which I really dig it.
Thanks, Steve. I'm becoming slightly addicted to your channel because the information is so useful. I would love your take on the Dragonfly Red.
Hi Steve, thks for the review. I don't use a dedicated dac currently (in my mid-end hifi setup) & was wondering
1. Whether it'll make a significant difference in SQ?
2. Are R2R dacs more analog sounding even though it can't do as high a resolution as sigma delta dacs?
Appreciate your thoughts, thks
Great review, thanks for covering an easily affordable yet special sounding dac.
What is the tetrahedron in the corner of the room? The triangle. Is it a speaker or an acoustic tool?
Steve, do you still have this dac and if so how do you things it's holds up to the Aries, Terminator? Your subjective thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Ty
What do you think about projects on massdrop?
hi. could you recommend me a good audio player those lowkey ones.
Does this mean I can get tube sound out of my active speakers or no?
Thanks for sharing.
Can you review the Yaqin Tube Buffer? people seems to like it!
Thanks.
I have one and sounds Great
I connected my Fiio x5 gen 2 DAP into my Peachtree Grand Pre and the sound is absolutely stunning. A relatively inexpensive Hi Res device that plays all music files with built-in EQ. As far as I'm concerned, it's the Giant Killer no ones seems to be talking about. It sound so good, I no longer use my external Dac and MacBook. Crystal Clear error free music finally. It also sounds spectacular run through my Chord Mojo. Highly recommended.
So I’m new to this. Is this how you make music from your phone sound good?
The same Phillip's TDA1541 chip that is in my still working 1985 Magnavox CDB-650 cd player? ( I've seen the CDB-650 all over Craigslist for $75 to $150) it has 2 RCA outputs, & one of them is filtered through an el84 Tube. A single din output aswell. It has one Rca & one Din input too. If the internal transport ever dies I can use it as a DAC with an external cd transport :)
How would this DAC compare to using the Oppo UDP-205 as a DAC?
... hola Señor Steve, que DAC me recomiendas para mi sala de escucha que principalmente es para escuchar música de USB, MP3, CZcams y quizá Netflix
Un DAC que no me rompa el banco
Gracias Steve
Do you think this DAC would pair well with Def Tech Demand D11 speakers? The D11's are definitely more relaxed and warm than comparable speakers, but would it be too dark and relaxed with a DAC like this?
DAC,s don't pair with speakers. You need to have your entire system right and then arrange to hear it in your system. Join a club or work closely with a dealer so you could arrange to hear it in your home. Once your system is set up correctly your speakers will be working to their full potential and you will clearly hear the difference in DACs. As a member of a club you can borrow components from a member to see if you like them.
Are you gonna be at can jam stevo?
Steve, I just picked up a Denafrips Ares II, which I absolutely love, how would you compare the Border Patrol to the Denafrips?
I just pulled the trigger and ordered one today after so many glowing reviews.
Current system:
Fostex HP-A8 Dac
Perla Audio Sig 50 integrated
Focal Sopra 2 speakers
Can't wait to try it out! I'll report back.
Eric McDade so did that dad work well for you.Ive had good luck w $680 gungnir schist dac bought used list price $810
Is the border patrol good for blues rock sound or only acoustic music
Just an FYI for those put off by the options stated on his site.
I emailed Gary about the DAC and he's willing to install any combination of 2 inputs, including toslink.
It was great seeing you again at CJ this weekend. If you come to S.F., look me up.
I just bought cambridge audio dacmagic plus, used for 150€. I´m happy because i can get my genelec speakers connected to it via XLR. Good purchase and cheap :)
Can you try auricsound S7,
Thanks Steve!
Steve, you should check out the Topping D20 DAC. Crazy good for the $$$.
Is this good for headphones
For shoestring budget SMSL M8A is exceptionally good (or just good enough for the hi end guys). You can even use it battery operated with a power bank. Would be better with an Amanero USB chip, but still I like it and bought two of them (the second for $180)
Thanks for the recommendation, I bought it!
I came for the not crazy expensive DAC .. stopped dead at the "$1200"
Henk Kok I think this is a bang for the buck and (from a price perspective) just in the lower high ends.
Expensive is all relative but in the high end game for something that's super nice, $1200 is nothing for a dac.
That dac sounds an awful lot like the Audio Note point of view on more than one aspect of digital to analog conversion....
Will this DAC produce better sound from a MAC Pro laptop???
any dedicated powered DAC/Amp will sound better than anything off the shelf dac there is in the Macbook pro
It is interesting and true to some degree, that limited bandwidth vinyl still has something special that wider bandwidth hi res digital can't quite get to or match, and I came to a similar humble conclusion that adding tubes does warm up and round off the clinical bit beasts...really well!
So perhaps that great old adage .. less is more ...is still very true!?
The Philips TDA1543 chip or chips in this DAC were the low end chips of their day. I have a Starting Point Systems DAC 3 which uses this chip and I really liked the natural sound of it until the lack of detail started to irritate me. According to most people who enjoy the sound of NOS (non oversampling) DAC's the chip you really want is the Philips TDA1541. I think it's ridiculous to be charging this much for a TDA1543 DAC and the %50 increase in price for both usb and spdif is hilarious. I would rather have a Schiit Multibit, Metrum, or Audial if I was spending this kind of money on a DAC.
The same 1541 chip thats in my 1985 Magnavox CDB-650 CD player. You can find them on craigslist for $75 to $150..has an el84 tube in one of the 2 rca outs.
That's a far better deal than this $900 to $1,350 DAC with an inferior 1543 chip.. for shure
I picked up on you saying it used an old Philips Dac chip. I have an old Alchemist Nexus apd32a cd player that uses two Philips tda1549 Dac chips and we love it. Gives real dimension and life to cds. I would buy another one in a heart beat just to have a spare. Still not as good as records but really close. I have heard this chip was only made for 2 years and is very rare I wonder if they are using the same chip?
Interesting. I guess there's a widely-held notion that latest is greatest in the digital game. Out comes a fancy new ESS Saber DAC, or whatever, and last year's cutting edge equipment is consigned to history. That ignores the fact that there have been some great DACs and CD players down the years and I have been wondering when "retro" units might surface. Seems it's already happening. Not sure I agree with putting tubes in them though. My preference is to send the best possible and purest signal into my tube amp and that will have an even better effect. Useful if you're a solid state user though, I guess.
Oh my, Steve, that Beck Record is super compressed. I love Beck, but the sound quality is lacking!!!
I don't know, I think I just got bored, why am I talking to you, I'm freaking dead already!!!
$1200 Not crazy expensive for a DAC? Seriously Steve? Sure, it is a great sounding DAC and more bang for the buck than DACs costing twice as much, but $1200 is to expensive for this audiophile on a budget!
Indeed, $1200 or $995 cheap??? I'll stick with my iFi iDSD Nano for my main rig and an Audioquest DragonFly 1.0 for the laptop, thank you very much.
I don’t want to be overly critical about the guy but I agree. He’s in the super high end world all day everyday so I guess 1200 isn’t really expensive when you look at it from his perspective. To the Joe Schmo like myself it’s extremely expensive. I’d really love to find a channel that reviewed stuff that I could afford middle of the road stuff to a budget conscious type of audiophilewannabe. Like I’ve been checking out the Oppo Sonica DAC/Streamer kind of an all in one unit but that’s not considered audiofilish enough for certain circles. Everyone’s raving about the Chord Qutest DAC and yea I’m sure it’s awesome but it’s 2grand!
If you're in the market for a good DAC for a reasonable price, check this out. www.parts-express.com/smsl-sanskrit-6-32-bit-192-khz-usb-dac-coaxial-optical-decoder--230-228
@Dale Huber, are you familiar with the concept that *implementation* is more important than the silicon chip ? If not, I have great news - stick with your phone as everything else will be a massive waste of money.
I agree, is not crazy money... the thing is with these companies is that they should offer an in-house session with the equipment cos you can't just go to your local hi-fi store and hear it.
Mr.G. is it in the Yeggy class or Close?? No Ok thanx
I know what you're talking about, I use a similar old-Philips-chip-based, NOS dac. I've made a few improvements to it over time and it just sounds AWSOME (AND a n a l o g ! even at very high frequencies, even violins and cymbals sound smooth and analog with very good distinction and deployment of their higher harmonics! Not to mention body and 3Dimensionality! In fact, this dac was the reason why I haven't moved up to hi-res yet (although I do use hi-res recordings, downsampled to 16-44.1 because IT DOES make a difference). I'm not sure if I'll get the same quality from a hi-res dac, it'll have to be very expensive.
i think high resolution music can be played by cheaper dacs , the lower resolution music still benefits from the old 14 and 16 bit chips ..
I've been pretty hot to get a DAC. R2R and tube sells me. I know its not in the signal path but that's ok. Ordered one this week.
Agreed, technology upgrade fatigue trying to own the latest tech, gets u to the point of frustration to keep pace, vs. economical gear, like Schitt DACs....may be best bet. One last thought, if we focus on the enjoyment.....of music, and what realistic gear we can...afford.....all is good....crank up the music!
Gary at BP is an awesome guy!
I wonder if I can get a free one since I'm a Maryland resident. I live down the street from the guy who owns VVT amps and he hasn't given me one yet, so maybe not.
I am thinking about getting an HH Scott 299b refurbished by Mapleshade, so I will probably only have around $100 for a DAC. Schitt it is. Unless someone can recommend a good DAC kit.
Yep the TDA1451 Philips chip does sound amazing. Instead of paying so much , consider buying a vintage player off EBay. I scored the Marantz PM 75 , a 100 W Amplifier with a DAC unit which has the silver crown version of this TDA 1451 chip and it sounds superlative for around $300
You mean the philips tda1541a dacchip i think 🤪
can you do a video or direct me to a video of yours that covers the likes of teac cd-p650b marantz cd-6006 (or relevant substitute) and yamaha cd-s300? or at least products in that class. i mainly just need a dac to run my iphone through usb with instead of settling with the 3.5mm headphone jack. obviously $1200 is a drop in the bucket for true audiophiles when it comes to a dac considering how expensive they do get. i think some weekend warrior audiophiles forget just what comes with audiophilia at times. im sure you helped a lot of people into owning one of these DAC’s with this video
“...ANALOG” lol gotta watch where you step around the interwebz
Why'd you buy the SE version and what is the difference in sound? Is it worth the extra outlay of money?
I'm about to find out if your 'good' is my 'good' !
Yesterday arranged for a Border Patrol DAC SE to travel to the UK for audition.
I was intrigued because you sounded so sincerely impressed with the way it "just sounds so good", that I just had to listen for myself.
Keep up the 'good' work :)
How was the audition?
Astro boySteve’s description is spot-on. This DAC is mellow, slightly dark and very rich in tone. Lacks the harsh, sharp edge character of many other DACs, yet still has detail and dynamics. If it were a speaker it would be a Harbeth rather than a Focal ! A DAC that you can relax into for many hours without fatigue. I bought the SE version . It’s more than stands up to scrutiny through my Quad electrostatics. Much of the sound quality of the MSB Analog DAC At a tenth of the price:) My particular unit plays 24/96 files perfectly, maybe that’s a quirk.
@@siletteman thank you for your reply! Would you say it is a true giant killer like the reviews say, in terms of air, openness and just realism? Or is it just a matter of flavor and personal taste (rolled off round lush Harbeth sound) when putting it against other Dacs at this pricing? I'm just wondering because right now I'm upgrading my entire upstream and those characteristics can be achieved via other components. Thanks again!
Astro boy I don’t know about “giant killer”. I do know that I have compared it directly to PS Audio is Direct stream DAC Running red cloud software and it comes very close. The direct stream is not quite as good as the MSB , which is the most analog sounding dark I have ever heard (and I’ve heard a lot!). Both of these decks are very highly regarded so for this one to come close he is quite an achievement for the price.
50 years of listening to audio components tells me that you never get everything in One package There is always a compromise, you just have to choose which elements are the most important to you
Also you can never go completely by any review because their personal taste and review equipment is never the same as yours. The best you can do is to find a reviewer whose taste seems to be the same as yours and then audition any recommended items of interest in your own system.
Synergy between components is so very important. The advantage with border patrol is that they give you a trial period so that you can hear for your own judgement. I have not noticed any lack of air or detail but my opinion could be different to yours so ultimately one just has to suck it and see:)
Hope that some help. Good luck with the upgrading, try to listen to everything together rather than one of the time, Because that Synergy thing is so important. And yes that does include cables!
@@siletteman yes I totally agree! I also love the Harbeth sound so will probably go for it. Thank you for all these good advices :)
Can you talk about more affordable dragonfly dacs.
Im late to the party here but i still want one. Cant justify the 1k+ price. I often use an older nos 4x tda1543 dac. Surely not a match for the BorderPatrol but i like it much better than the newer budget "measurement" dacs that ive tried.
I must say the merits go to the Philips TDA1543 chips as well. I had one of these NOS (Non-OverSampling) DACs in the past and I must say it sounded beautiful - 3-dimensional, full, natural and organic. None of that digital harshness. Such DAC needs a very good power supply though. The reason why I sold it was because I needed something with better soundstage and depth.
Kopi O Kaya to get the most out of the tda1543 you need to parallel them. Computer Audio Design does this. But Border Patrol’s implementation may be the exception.. I prefer the tda1545 for a single stereo chip on a budget. But I still like the tda1541a the best for Philips multibit.. For Burr Brown, I like the pcm1704..
Kopi O Kaya . I have two Philips tda1549 chips in my old Alchemist Nexus cd player and it sound amazingly 3 demensional and detailed. Philips made some great Dac chips.
I've got an old Marantz CD12a DAC, with an older Philips chip in it....still sounds great to my ears
Rick G : Yes, mine was eight TDA1543 chips in parallel... Agree that TDA1541A (especially the twin crown version) is a better DAC chip. By the way, I am using Burr Brown PCM63P DAC now. It is also a NOS-type R2R DAC.
chris peckham : Yes, I can't agree more.
Usb and/or SPdif? Why not I2S? Sounds a lot better!
Hi,
People say do a blind test on audio "320kbs 44khz or Flac 1441kbs 48khz" and you will not hear the difference , if you pitch the song/audio down 1/2 speed or slower you will hear the difference , you can tell between the two formats .
If you boost bass or treble on 320kbs mp3 you can notice the compression/artifacts a lot more than you can with Flac, providing the recording came from a good source to start with.
This is nearly the same principle as video bit-rate , resolution etc . Think of the DAC as a GPU for a moment . With high quality video you can zoom in , slow down, speed up and no degraded video .
To me an "mp4 1080p video" full of noise and compression artifacts is equivalent to "mp3 320kbs" that people think is suitable or they cannot tell the difference because they are still watching on a 1080p tv... or listening on a older Samsung device.
When you see HEVC and 8K video running properly on capable hardware, you will grasp the difference. No stair step effect , no aliasing etc ... Not to mention that what ever you are watching or listening to, has its own version of encoder or decoder which vary sound and vision. Up-sampler's, up-scaling, oversampling, No thank you
Once you have high quality audio, routed through a proper DAC, routed into decent equipment, at line level voltage, no silly headphone out jacks . It should then sound pure .
Play with mp3 and/or a cheap DAC with a good sound system or monitors ......Only then at a decent volume you will hear the artifacts in mp3 or terrible bit error production ..... A + B Compare everything hahahahahha
It has more even harmonic distortion...the kind some people feel can enhance music...
What do we need a DAC for. All music is digital and all dvd payers, cd players, home theatre amps have them built in?
Because it's stored digitally then converted to analog for playback a lot of the time. And cd quality is 7x higher than mp3 on your phone. So if you want to hear real music as it was intended as if the band is playing directly to you in your room then you need a dac and maybe a headphone amp at the least.
And if you want to hear it sound naturally as if the voices and guitar strings are really in the room and almost tangible, you need a great dac.
Stevarino,....when are you going to get your LP's /albums straightened up and not falling over and getting bent and warped out of shape? Get busy. NOW!
Every DAC product offers adjectives and promises to sound better. Can you offer a quantifiable number that proves the quality of sound, or present recordings that show a bad DAC vs the BorderPatrol DAC?
Yea...but will it improve the sound of my 8 Track Tapes ? Real people want to know .
Philips DAC,good power supply,a Recipe for good sound I guess
i was like cool i gonna find something for 400 dollar and then.... ^^
LMAO! @ $400, I still really don't think you can beat a Chord mojo.
@@lwwells does this still hold true?
@@GeorgeNYer For me, absolutely. The mojo is hard to beat for less than a $1000 according to my ears.
@@lwwells I used to own a Mojo some 3 years ago but had to return it because its headphone jacks was losing sound. I remember the Mojo sounding slightly wider and softer than the Audioquest Dragonfly Red. Now a days I use an old Apogee Mini Dac and I've never been happier with sound wide and with dept and crisp, but sometimes I wonder how the Mojo fairs side by side against the Mini Dac. I still own a Dragon Fly Red it doesn't come anywhere near the quality of the Mini Dac
@@GeorgeNYer I haven't heard the Apogee, but I have an AQ red next to me. To my ears, the AQ sounds very "digital" and I would describe this as harsh. Perhaps this is what you mean by the mojo sounding softer.
The big difference between the mojo at other DAC's I've used has been soundstage depth. For example, the AQ presents depth as distinct thin layers. There may be two or three layers with some space between them. It doesn't make a very convincing image. However, the mojo puts instruments on a continuous scale for depth.
I find this is much easier to hear when you use speakers. I have some really nice cIEMS from Alclair.com (RSM4 and studio 4's) and I find the mojo is more enjoyable than the AQ with them. But when I use some modest studio monitors (Emotive Airmotiv 4s) the difference is night and day. The mojo feels like it's actually reproducing the soundstage.
Why would one need a DAC if your CD player has a quality one to begin with? My CD players have a Burr-Brown or a Cirrus Logic DAC, which sound fantastic! Do DAC's really make that much of a difference for those of us using CD players as our main source?
Maybe your cd players DAC is dated or like myself i have my DAC hooked to my desktop pc
if my CD can take an iMac mini I would agree with you ;)
I would love to blind test this over another Philips TDA1543 but 3x cheaper
I smell something.
QuikSeps
valve
🤭👍
It has more correct tone and timbre especially with acoustic instruments and the human voice.. If implemented well, their weaknesses relative to more ‘modern’ oversampling dacs are not as apparent, re: multibit nos dacs..
Rick G a bit is a bit. The only thing that can change timbre is your speaker producing the sound.
O yes, you can say that: 'it sounds...analogue!'
All reviewers of my North Star Design Extremo DAC said that and I know exactly what you mean :-)
$1350 for a very good sounding DAC is cheap btw!
Thanks for the review.
Paul P. Not to be rude what do you expect from a guy whose each speaker banana plug cost more than this DAC 😂
is iNorth Star Design Extremo DAC good?
Hi Steve, love the reviews. However, if could do one thing for us subscribers, this would be helpful. Please list the name of the product you are reviewing with a link to said product in the details section. Often when I watch your reviews, I want to research the product and you do not provide these details which can be kind of frustrating :-).
-- A crazy good but not crazy expensive DAC -- a 1000 bucks IS crazy expensive to most people man.
I am sure you know what only 30% of the price of this DAC can buy.
AudioGD R2R 11
or
Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon
or
Fostex HP-A4BL
And these are combos, not just DAC, and they can do DSD too, if you would like to have that option, and 16bit FLAC files sound really good on them too.
Your video is actually quite appealing. Despite that, it is unclear why a good-sounding DAC should cost that much.
are AudioGD R2R 11
or
Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon
or
Fostex HP-A4BL better than BP SE?
@@ayc868 Why does it have to be better? Only the 30% price point and being a damn good DAC is not enough for you? If not, then why not?
Intriguing - adding a tube to the digital stream. I'll look for it at RMAF 2018!
At $12 an hour, it would take more than 80 hours of work to pay for the $1000 version. Good news, though. The average US wage is double that, so only 40+ hours! You definitely don't live in the real world, where even $500 is a lot for many of us. This is why my gear came from Goodwill.
Richard Larson yes. Also check out canuck audiomart..... and us version.... good stuff quite cheap.
My gear is all used from ebay for that very reason
Richard Larson Slow your roll maybe, sure it is expensive, he is claiming not crazy expensive. In this category, $2k-3k is expensive, $20k-30k is crazy expensive. Yes those exist.
I heard the cartel is hiring;)
Just do some Reasearch. You can get a Luxman 100 used for $350 for instance. If he recommends it it's probably pretty good. Dac's for the moment hold thier resale even in Foreign markets , and become obsolete quickly. Search Meridian , I have seen those used with Luxman integrated's which are spectacular.
What's a DAC and why would I need to waste money on it? Got no "DAC" and I play music every day on my dual mono Heathkit's that sounds incredible .
DAC- digital to analog converter. They are everywhere: inside your computer, CD player, TV, home theatre receiver, phone, ipod, etc.
If you have a dated CD-player, you can update it if it has a digital output.
And for streaming of course.
No dac no music. In short turns data into sound.
mike young
I used to think like you, until I actually used a good one. There are ways to get a quality DAC for cheap and it's worth the investment, that is unless your current audio card or source unit already has a quality chip.
Yeah,oldstyle pure analog audio. Have that too. However,its weird that today anything that just oozes quality seems to be exclusive for the affluent.
Most music is still mastered in 44.1 ...lol
Philips - Sense and simplicity. Basic quality from Eindhoven, Holland.
The real problem is that after 35 years of digital formatting, the music world has yet to accept an industry standard so we all can move forward, instead of back and forth. Until that happens, if it ever does, be careful how much you spend on a DAC.
I don't know; I think my DAC sounds outstanding and I see no reason why I would'nt like it any more in ten years.
Very possibly true. But it all depends on what type of formatting will be used to comprise a digital file ten years from now. This is my main point, as of now there is no standard, which leads to the current MQA fiasco. One has to wonder what is coming next.
I'm in the jayson stoddardski camp
Man, that's pretty expensive for a 1543... they been selling 8x and 16x 1543 design's on ebay for more then a decade steve... Teradak chameleon, or Teradak.
Okay, (hey Steve) I've had this DAC in my system at the behest of Scot Hull and first thing that should be noted is it has a really high output impedance, something like 4-5k. So if you use a passive pre look elsewhere. I use an autoformer which should deal with the High Z better then a stepped attenuator it still didn't cut the mustard. Second is I found the sound to be the complete opposite of what you'd get with a Sabre based DAC which is a bit clinical, detail retrieval based sound that easily results in a cerebral experience rather then an emotional experience. This is why people, my friends that are reviewers, love this DAC.
It's fun.
but
I don't think it's the proverbial 'best thing since sliced bread'. An inexpensive DAC that is. The Schiit Bifrost Multibit. It is having your 'cake an eating it too'. I've had some very expensive digital and this little guy is the best sounding unit I've used. I find it to be very musical while also letting you hear what's on the recording. In the world of digital music that is a rare attribute.
"just power supply". lol.
for an audiophile, that is inexpensive. Most of us, i suggest, have tighter budget constraints.
hello
it seems to me that it is less lively than the "little" musician draco which in my opinion has a simply incredible value for money .... only 675 dollars at the moment ....
it is not crazy expensive, but it is too expensive to a good deal.
Okay, that's it I am finally tired of this audiophile business baloney. It is for people who have have a mountain of dollars, or disposable income; or are crazy for a new technology. However, a DAC may not be for everybody's choice, Steve. Yes, according to Michael Ping there is a very affordable alternative. Thanks again, Michael.
It makes things sound good and it makes things sound better. So does a muffler.
Dac, Dacs, What the heck? When it comes to Dacs, they are pretty hard to do a hood sound review about them. However, based on my experience with Dacs, There is little difference between the sound quality of a $5000 dollar dac....and a $2000 dollar dac. In fact, the dac that I am using right now is, an unsampling dac with a tube buffer stage and it's the best I've heard so far. Cost.... $500.00 U.S.
you are 100% correct. They sound mostly the same, and I've been up and down the price ladder on these things.
>$900
>"Not Expensive."
>Shut up.
Another Day another Dac......Ok.
If you spend $1200 on DAC than you don't have to buy CD player, turntable and streamer. It should work well with $4000 integrated amplifier + $4000 speakers.
You still have to have a source from where the music comes from. Your comment makes no sense.
@@jeffadams9699 Probably I was thinking about using PC/Laptop as a source. Not sure why I mentioned TT.
Over $1000 for a DAC not crazy expensive? More like Audiosnob
At 1200 dollars I would expect a real electric guitar to pop out the top and start playing.
Is this the guy from the Police Academy movies? Damn. Did not age well.
I wonder if 1200$ dac actually sound better than 300$, 2000$, we should get together and blind test these equipment and do a statistical analysis to see whether any of these stuff make sense.
Am I wasting my money on these expensive equipment and at the end no one can tell difference? Is it really worth spending 1200$ on a single equipment. I like good quality sound but some times i wonder that with a large sample people cant actually decide objectively which equipment sounds better.
I think people may prefer equipment subjectively and that may not correlate to the price of equipment after certain price point, similar to watches. 300$ watch can keep the time as good as a 10000$ watch... the minuscule increase in time keeping is irrelevant to anybody. Its just fashion statement.
You do realize that most all of these are just an inexpensive DAC chip in a fancy box....right? The chips can be $10 - $100 with likely a $3,000 DAC using the $100 chip....(maybe). It might just be using the cheapest crap! There's NO REASON WHATSOEVER for ANY DAC to cost more than a few hundred bucks. Sorry....that's a fact JACK! Please, stop already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have never seen a DAC chip over $10 Burr Brown,Saber,AKM ect. The output stage is what counts is it a cheap OP amp or a discrete output. I have two DAC's one cost $100 new and one cost me $250 used they both use the same Burr Brown chip and the sound is night and day. You get what you pay for. I agree the price of DAC's is crazy.
but but but, a guy reviewed it, called it analog sounding, richer, and it has a metal case....
Border Patrol ? What does that have to do with audiophilia ? Smacks of underlying meaning which just doesn't sit right with me. I would've liked to know if it made your records or cd's or files sound better. Maybe all 3. Border Patrol .... hmmm .... comes with it's own Maga cable ?
There's no point in hi-rez it is snake oil anything really above 48 kHz actually is worse it causes noise if you go above this what's the point anyway you're hearing is only 16 kHz.
The farts are strong with this one.....
Richer, body, warm... bullshit adjectives audiophiles hang on to.
$1,200 Steve cheap I'm not spending more than three hundred on a DAC ever again the difference is well I don't really know the difference all I know is I've had thousand-dollar Dac and then I've had a regular CD player and then I've had a $300 dac and you know Steve there wasn't much of a difference you're better off spending that $1,200 on a decent amp!!!😎
Frederick Franchi what DACs specifically for $300 &$1000. My gungnir $650 bought used is quite good.but the rest of your equipment chain must be of better quality, especially speakers.