Did Aphex Twin cross the line? "XTAL" How was it made?
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- čas přidán 10. 02. 2024
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The foundation of the track is that chord progression, which wasn't even in the original sample. So yeah it's obviously heavily relying on the sample but Steve saying that it is basically the same track is just nonsense.
For real. I thought there was gonna be a bass part back there or something he had filtered out. Instead there's 1) someone lalala-ing the Star Wars theme and 2) some bells...which Richard then rearranged into part of his own melody!
I do think maybe people should be paid for their sampled works, depending on the law. But that's what the courts are for, not CZcams comment sections.
at this point, we're all fifth generation content thieves. anyone inspired by anything else is a thief. that twat thinks he's truly invented something new, in a vacuum, and stated so without an ounce of self-awareness
Very underwhelmed by the similarities, I wonder if Steve is being dishonest or if he's just not very musically perceptive at all. Pretty bad look either way, not sure why he thought that comment was a good idea!
Exactly the original sounds nothing like Aphex's tune.
u guys clearly have no knowledge about anything in this topic yet u voice really strong opinions. crazy how low humans have become
that guy is just mad that Xtal is 1000x better than Evil at play
Thank you for saying it out loud 😆
Yeah the Brits are pretty much all like this guy. Except the good ones.
thank you
@@B1SCOOP YOU have FACTS on that?Please show us those documents or the interview...thanks...
@@michaels8607 ah, sorry man, I've written that comment just after starting watching the video. I've jumped on conclusion you were all dissing the uploader. I feel stupid.
Apart from the fact he was likely a teenager at the time, that's basically how samples were used at that time. It was only after a few high profile rap artist were sued it became more of an issue and people started trying to hide the source of the samples. The 80s were different.
While I agree with you, an argument can be made that Richard has had decades of time to compensate the original artist retroactively in one way or another after making enough money from the record. Not taking any sides here, just pointing that out.
@@Law0fRevenge and that begs the question of whether the original artist has a legal basis for a claim that would be successful. Probably a debate for the record companies 🤔
@@hiddentechno8266It doesnt beg the question at all. Its not a legal precedent waiting to be set then challenged. Its an already well established fact that if you sample others work, in part or whole, you have to compensate either through obtaining a license or paying royalties.
@@chriszanf if only it was that simple. The issue is whether it's been transformed enough to be seen as different which is how most samples these days are used. And that's a subjective question.
@@hiddentechno8266 if it’s recognisable then it should technically be cleared, I’m not sure there is much grey area here. Xtal is very obvious
“All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.” -Frank Zappa.
But then he also bitched about John Lennon crediting a jam session based on a Zappa song to himself so..
@@micktheticrules for thee not for meeeee 😂
MK ultra plant
@@mickthetic True but wasn't he just playing a zappa song? Wasn't re-arranged or oriented differently just lennon playing his song with him and giving himself credit lol
Frank weren't wrong woz ee?
And Evil at Play is basically someone singing the Star Wars theme tune over a pad ..
😂🎉 Truth
👽🙏 XTRM
came here to say the same. Not much originality in the melody of Evil at Play.
Star wars Theme was also stolen from Gustav Holts - Mars
Everything is a Remix.
@@DeafbyDesign Not even close to Mars. Williams was obviously influenced by Holst and Mahler and a million other composers just like we are, but that's a big difference from stealing.
Bleeps and Bloops did a hardware only cover of the song and there is so much more to that track than just that short sample. It's easy to recreate it now, but think about the work involved when Richard made it 30 years ago on equipment that wasn't as user friendly as today. Evil at Play is basically just a short ambient track you would hear for maybe ten seconds in a movie or tv show, there's no real structure to it. Richard turned that short sample into a full song that is way more complex than the source.
No line was crossed, creativity was marinated with More creativity of the highest order. Different Times.
lovely comment
many folks say it's pronounced as "crystal"
It is. Just like Xmas.
It is. The crystal lock function on the Lexicon PrimeTime II delay is labelled XTAL. Who knows, this may be where he got the title from.
My guess based on his age and background (and mine) would be from 70's/80's R/C Car Controllers - they had XTAL written on them, sometimes twice :)@@EstuaryMists
@@EstuaryMists Xtal is a standard shorthand for crystal in electronics.
@@aeiouxs it's this, 100% (i am of a similar age and background).
"Our tune?" It's literally just two notes.
Should he have cleared the sample? Legally, yes. Morally I think it such a good example why copyright is stupid.
Not to mention the incredibly deep lyrics of "la la la la la la la..."
I think (within reason) people should be able to creatively sample whatever they want and make it their own. But the more we push the argument that the thing sampled is some really basic "two note" thing then we have to wonder why they sampled it in the first place if that's really the case. It wasn't sampled because its just two notes but because its whatever it is as a whole, all the parts included.
Copyright is not stupid. You're making a generalization out of an edge case.
Agreed
@@j3ffn4v4rr0 No. This is merely an example of it, not proof.
Great video!
AFAIK the copyright dispute was settled about 2 years ago and the original artists got 50% credit for the song.
source?
wow. I looked it up. you're right. that's cool.
50% that they earn from aphex twins' work. Copyright is absurd
@@erikgustafson7365 In this case, the sample is such an important part of the track, I think it's right that they get something. Though 50% sounds a bit too much too me. Though the vocal part is recognisable, Xtal in it's entirety goes way beyond the original.
I'd be more than happy to accept 20% if someone could take a sample from one of my many forgettable tracks and turn it into an all time clasic!
@@erikgustafson7365 rich is a far nicer bloke than i am i reckon. unless the guy from the youtube comment found an ambulance chaser and went after him, which doesn't sound out of the realm of possibility given the odious narcissism and sense of entitlement on display in said youtube comment.
hu? The whole premise is flawed... the record he sampled for Xtal is a record MEANT to be used as a sound library and thus sampled. What is this guy talking about... what can't actually be the guy who made that record.
Interesting!
Not for free though. He should have cleared the sample and given them a cut from day 1.
Even so, the sample is the core of the tune, I understand that at the beginning of Aphex's career, 2 factors need to be taken into consideration, A it was at a time when it was the wild west in terms of sampling and B this was when Aphex was just starting out.
The original artist deserves some pay out, Richard is a millionaire and has been for quite some time.
The deal he had with R&S may complicate things (they have the rights), as I understand Richard fell with R&S over merchandising. So it would probably come down between Aphex and R&S
@Metro6am I don't know about day one it was a different time. Everyone was sampling everyone, but as soon as it was obvious how rich (no pun in tended) he would become, he should have paid up in some way.
@@Metro6am wha? but this guy, if that comment really is from the guy who recorded that record, says sampling is MORALLY WRONG... so why would he want royalties if sampling is so MORALLY wrong????? He has to pick one... sampling should not be allowed, or the orignal artist should get royalties from sample usage. I don't think that comment is from the person who recorded that album... "Evil at play" is part of a SAMPLE library... then the person who made it is mad that it was sampled???? I really don't think so.
XTAL is my morning alarm, nice to get so much indepth info on a tune I am now very familiar with!
A track with a unique iconic vibe. Good choice!
Mine too and somehow I since then wake up less stressed and with More motivation. Xtal is magical.
I think I’d drift into an even deeper blissful slumber if XTAL started playing next to me lol
there's a difference between 'the morality of sampling' and 'who gets paid after a song is made using samples'. Work has been based on other work in every artform ever, literally no one thinks 'sampling', 'paying homage', 'putting text into use', etc is immoral.
Not quite literally, I've discussed with somebody that thinks that
@@TheGalantMAN well, I don't dispute that someone thinks that when presented with the evidence, but it's an incredibly fringe position to take these days.
Non-issue. This is just standard sampling, nothing even close to crossing some theoretical line, and arguably doing a lot more than other sampling we accept as totally legitimate.
Xtal isn't a substitute for Evil At Play. The context is changed, it means something different, it is something different.
Another inspirational Ableton tutorial. Every one of the videos you have been making recently are my favourite ever tracks, please keep them coming!
Vocal melody is also basically humming the star wars theme melody haha. You nailed it on that bongo sample
I am so confused. I don't hear the Star Wars track whatsoever.
These videos are soooooo good, dead interesting and informative with nice little tips here and there. And the tune selection is great for someone as old as me.who loved them the first time around. Great job👍
A track can still be based around a core sample and yet be transformative enough as demonstrated by Xtal and countless others to stand up in their own right.
If you easily can tell where the sample is from then its clearly not transformative enough, either produce your own or clear it with the copyright owner, you really don't have to mental gymnastic over this, i'm tired of this world where people pretend doing the right thing is not their concern because "everyone's doing it"
as someone who is both a traditional musician (eg playing instruments in bands) and an electronic producer I always feel conflicted about this. 40% of the music i heard in my teens had the amen in it (in fact i am listening to it now) and the drummer (Gregory Coleman) died homeless .i can't help but feel that is wrong no matter how many great tunes it gave us
Unfortunately, even if all amen samples were cleared it would not help Gregory Coleman. Only the song writers and mechanical rights owners get compensation for sample clearance.
All musicians should get a real job.
@@user82938 Are you saying this to get a reaction?
You can pick a bad example for everything.
There a was go fund me in response years later, it's not enough but at least something was put out.
Amazing breakdown, keep up with the content!!!
fun fact, xtal is the designator for a crystal oscillator
Fun fact 2: it's pulled from the christmas-xmas switch, which comes from X being the Greek letter Chi, and often substituted for places where "Christ" is written. It shouldn't be used to be replaced "crys" in crystal, but language is gonna language.
@@Beeks81 Was aware of xtal = crystal, but didn't know the origin. Also recently learned that LaTeX is pronounced lay-tech for the same reason, the X is intended to be a Greek X/chi.
@@Beeks81so wait, have I been pronouncing the name of the song incorrectly this whole time???
@@mikecassell8953 You could be mispronouncing it right now! Look out!
If you use Dexed as the DX7 you can get the exact same preset he used, it's called String5 I think
Thanks
but OPS7 is made by a homie so it's better ;)
Sweet! Which library is it for dexed? I've got a bunch
YOINK
Ohh wow... Just so people realize, Dexed is FREE and can even do microtonal!
I love your videos G! Always topics that interest me & well done!
I’m gobsmacked - your breakdown of this is incredible 🎉thanks for this - I got such nostalgia watching this
I absolutely love these videos. I was never a huge listener to Aphex Twin, but I'll happily watch amy video like this and learn more of the trade and craft! Respect to the original artists, and I agree with you about the positive aspects of sampling! Maybe its because I've been doing this as a hobby since the 90s on my old Atari ST! Love your work and effort sir!
That Reverb! Totally dreamy. Didn't know Apache was in there. Excellent video.
Found this whole video to be really fascinating. Thank you! 🙏🏼
Amazing that I'm just finding you now!! Much respect!! You have a new sub
I thought Aphex Twin used a entire full enormous track, BUT IT'S JUST A LA´LA´LA!
JESUS CHRIST STEVE! WHAT WERE THE CHANCES OF YOU BEING LISTENED TO AROUND THE WORLD WITH A LALALA TRACK?
I bet AT didn't get rich because of this track.
Apparently he started making money with his Didgeridoo single
I've got the patent and trademark on LALALA and I'm suing everyone.
@@LTPottenger "THE MISERABLE IS A GENIUS" .
pls don't get the patent for HAHAHAHA!
GREAT JOB RICHARD !
Cracking work man
what a lovely video. thank you so much. i wish this kind of content had existed 20 years ago when i first got into synths and music.
Beautiful song with criminal amount of reverb that works! Amazing recreation as always. I will now feel a tinge of sadness about the disputed sample though. I didn’t know
Great video! Just out of curiosity - is there any way you can share the project file? I really just want to see this track laid out in terms of the arrangement.
Nice video as always! Wil have fun with these R8 samples for sure.
Excellent tutorial. Thanks for a great vid
It's always great news when Gyu drops a new video! Also, I think that the sampled audio is such a little ditty that nobody would care about, they should be really happy that somebody still remembers it via Xtal. But still, royalties should be payed to whoever deserves them, no doubt about it. Retroactively if needed.
Didn't we have this conversation 30 years ago and the consensus among music makers was that sampling is same as building on tradition. Only greed won and here we are. People afraid to progress...like afraid to speak...modern times where moral=money and truth is a lie.
tbh we had this conversation more than a hundred years ago when collage was accepted as a valid form of visual art! taking a fragment of something and making something totally new out of it is not a new thing, all this talk of "stealing" is such a weird capitalist isolationist way to live. no human is an island, shared culture is not ownable, intellectual property is a concept created to make rich corporations richer, etc etc etc
Except when you start creating things, you become very aware that art cannot exist in a vacuum and creative endeavours require some form of compensation in order that you can continue to pursue your creative process. So art also has a definable monetary value, and creators deserve to be paid to compensate them for their work and allow them to eat so they may continue to create. This is separate from any capitalist or "greedy record label" machinations.
At the same time if your getting paid off my work more than me with 0 credit you are scum
@@ChristopherWoods "Deserve"? Why? Isn't art creation a gratuitous process? To eat? Haha, this reminds me of Feldman's quote: "If you are to become a painter, first thing you should master is the ability to starve".
Since we agreed on "art cannot exist in a vacuum", then sampling (appropriation) is the first natural thing, that comes to mind, because you need to borrow from the culture, as you can't create something out of a vacuum.
You try to draw the line between "how much money is enough" and "starving", but is it really possible? The problem here lies in a completely different plane - ethics - which can't be detached from art and the artistic process. A person of ethics would never want to steal anything, just the opposite - to give or to create. It doesn't matter how, by sampling chords or playing them on a piano.
This issue was never a problem in visual art, but in music it's still confusing for so many people.
To put it simply - it's the way we all live. We duplicate things constantly, but duplicate in our own way - sometimes recontextualising, transforming, adding - which leads to constant cultural development.
Great stuff Gyu, thank you.
Epic video! This is a masterful breakdown
Nothing wrong in my book, the sample is used in a creative way and there are othere elements contributing to the final delivery. The ripoff argument tastes of salt
I feel like the main keyboard part has always made the sound of the track. The part that was not sampled (at around 12 min in the video).
Really cool video! Well done! 😊
nice breakdown and great use of the rocket surgery gag!
Fair play, first time ever hearing the XTAL track, so thank you for bringing such a well crafted tune to my ears.
Love the vocal sample, such a catchy hook, I'm gona look up the original "Evil at Play" track it was sampled from, just to satisfy my own appetite of music nerdiness.
Also love what you do here on your channel. Please keep them coming.........................
and I'll be returning!😉
Peace
The improvised chords you made at 8:15 was really neat, as you mentioned, such a different feel it gives
An excellent video, sir!
also, nice recreation of xtal. thats pretty cool that you took the time and had the motivation to do that.
I didn't actually notice Xtal had vocals in for years, in that melody, they are buried so much you can hear a faint voice adding some harmonic content but no one's going 'oh, you know the one that goes 'la la la' they probably would mouth the synth part. That's really background stuff. What's he talking about.../just/ adding the synth, the beats, well that's the whole piece, and the vocals are like saying you invented icing sugar, therefore no one can claim the right to making a really great cake if they use it, given its such a minor part.
at the beginning of watching this i was thinking there was going to be a really cool, even more ambient track that was basically Xtal without drums that i didn't know about...Imagine my disappointment to hear the sound of some weird 'lol creepy children' thing that sounded like fucking around in a studio lasting 1mins.
Sampling always comes down to the question: is the sample use transformative of the original work?
Theres so many tracks from the early says of dance music where it really wasnt, and some where chunks of other tracks were lifted without (much) change that did create transformative works.
Beyonce's "Crazy In Love" is basically a straight rip from the Chi-lites ("Are You My Woman?") whereas FSoLs Papua New Guinea is a patchwork quilt of recognisable chunks of other tracks that is something new.
People that dont really do much to a sample or that if it was removed from the track, it would fall on its arse, should just give it up. A lot of the time its just laziness in place of some basic sound design and trying to innovate.
recontextualizing things has been an aspect of artistic expression long before digital sampling.. Manly highly esteemed artists have done it and sure you could call it "lazy" from a certain perspective but if people enjoy the vibe of the work i don't think how much time and effort went into something is really relevant.. Criticizing something for being "low effort" is a lazy form of criticism 😄
I love this breakdown, thanks!
Really liked your re-chorded version!
The R8 MKII has 808 sounds build in so that's probably what he used for the kick
he used 808 expansion card
Oh yeah you're right it's not an MKII@@christophhofer303
Afaik the tracks is meant to be pronounced as "Crystal" just like Xmas = Christmas.
Richard likes to play around the track names
insane how you recreated this! watching with open mouth haha
Loved this video Guy
xtal is a work of art, who cares how it was made it's a milestone
apparently, it's pronounced "crystal" not "xtal".
Amazing video man. Subbed
wonderful breakdown. listening back to this, it could be the beginnings of lo-fi.
Hi G, great vid as usual 😀.. I noticed your sm58 didnt have a pop shield 😉
Sampling other artists is only an issue when money gets involved.
Aphex Twin can microsample something evil and dark and convert it into something very ethereal and soothing, it's like a diametrically opposite track compared to the original :D
Amazing work
This inspires me to actually upgrade from free website music makers to a proper and professional software
this is like inventing a wheel then getting mad that Bugatti isn't compensating you
It's absolutely nothing like that at all lmao
@@urmumsbaps The wheel inventor would then claim the rights to every car by theory. This reality is only pertinent to one song
They should be honoured he sampled their track.
What an incredible breakdown 🥳
Awesome breakdown!
The difference between artists and producers is how much fuss they make about this kinda stuff. Monitising art is always detrimental to the art. They should be flattered to be sampled and enjoy the use of their work, but no fuck the art where's my money.
Aphex Twin once said this about copyright: "...having music for free is a good thing, because I don't think music should be a commodity. I've changed my opinion to and fro over the years, but I really do think there shouldn't be any copyright on art." But then, when Kanye West sampled Avril 14th, Richard was angry that he did not get any credits or payment.
There's a bit more to the Kanye story then that, Aphex was offering to help Ye out by offering him a slowed version of the sample, Ye and his team got on the defensive and denied Aphex had anything to do with the sample.
There's a difference between not believing copyright should be a thing and getting annoyed someone didn't give you a credit. One is legal, the other is politeness.
Got a cookie of his own dough...
More than anything, Aphex was more annoyed with Kanye's team shitty attitude to him when he offered to help them.
Can't believe RJ wanted anything to do with West, guy is a clown show.
Not only is it an informative production video, but I love your shrine in the background. Homage to Venerable Geshe-la! 🕉🕉🕉
excellent video!
If i was that guy I'd cry tears of happiness because Aphex Twin sampled my song
Rocket surgery you say, that's mixing your metaphors which is a whole new kettle of ball games!
very instructive thanks a lot sir
I think you nailed it. This is exemplary old school sampling craft. It wouldn't go down this way today, but those days were different. And Steve Jeffries knows it.
The champ does what the champ wants... when he wants.
I think everyone should be compensated for their work.
what if they're dead?
good thing we don't care
@@gianaccetta8571so owning is work all of a sudden?
@@erikgustafson7365 no it’s not work, if the profit isn’t going to the artist but some greedy company I don’t care.. just like buying an old record on Discogs that isn’t available anywhere else isn’t going to the artist or anyone so might as well get it for free as download if you can… if the artists family owns the profits I’d have to think about that one more
@@CarlRenceryou are subhuman
Both really nice tracks
Possibly my favorite Aphex track! The first AT album I sought out, after I heard it when my mates woke me up after coming back from a rave in a wood near the house, and put it on! They'd been tripping, entranced by these giant nests of ants that were everywhere up there! SAW Blew my half-asleep mind at 6am. Loved it ever since. Part of what makes music great are the memories it kicks up. Great video, thanks!
At the end of the day would anyone have known the original if it wasnt for the genius of Aphex Twin?
That's a side issue. You don't know who made all the parts in your car, it all gets credited to Honda etc., but those people still get paid.
Some would yes, it was library music. After all, it was published, it wasn't written by robots, someone made it.
@@dalek604and now they are making money out of aphex twins' work
that reharmonization was nice! brought out a very different aspect of the vocals. complaining about sample clearance is so passe. in the future its just an Homage, a compliment. It is to be grateful people use your stuff. i respect that they dont like the idea though haha. but its "lack consciousness"
the ogee sample is pretty twee!!
Legally its called fair use. Something that greedy capitalists think they are above
Dam, I haven't seen a Chaos pad in years! My mate used to have one, and they were such fun to add into our DJ sets back then.
Thanks for the shout out!
Loads of records have sampled Aphex Twin tunes. Is this video gonna give royalties to anyone?
To me, and I truly love the expression that sampling comes with, this is a remix and not a piece of music on it's own. To me the track should be listed within the credits and as the track has made money, part of those royalties should go to the copyright owner. If it went to court, they would certainly see it that way if they didn't award full royalties. Sampling should be used to create from another persons ideas, and to me this doesn't add enough.
Yes, if this went to court there'd be a very legitimate claim to royalties
Wouldnt that mean making money off of aphex twins' work?
Yes, because his work basically consists of adding a drum sequence over someone else's work.@@erikgustafson7365
@@erikgustafson7365 No because a settlement would reflect the perceived level of value of the imported track within the container work.
The sampled pad is really amazing. I always thought that the bell melody was intentional. Now I see it’s an accident, which makes it more impressive to me. Richard is a genius.
I had no idea Aphex Twin was so good. I only rememered a couple of songs from years ago, its really inspiring as well. Been messing around with a couple of tiny samples from a song I love and having so much fun, been ages since I messed around wirh samples.
Rocket surgery 😄
Something I'm seeing in the comments is the difference between "sample library" and "music production library" with respect to the offerings back then. I'd say if RDJ _knew_ about the distinction back in the composing stage with respect to this particular sample he lifted, then he should figure out how to make the original author whole. Otherwise if this was some unremarkably-labeled CD he acquired 30 years ago that didn't specify *usage,* then the original author arguing on "moral grounds" better not have ever bittorrented/file-shared *_ANYTHING_* and used it commercially during the same time period, including composition software, plug-ins, and sounds.
There was lots of floppies/tapes/records [CD's came a bit later because there wasn't any disk copying, only pro produced stuff] floating around back then that were bought and sold, copied and traded, with stuff to sample on them. I expect he sampled it without knowing either the original source or composers. It honestly was the wild west of copyright theft before things got a lot more organized and record companies realised they could earn from charging to clear samples.
@@grizcuzrecord companies being the key word here.
MCPS libary albums ALWAYS had Ts & Cs and a reference to the licensing. But I don't blame him for not knowing/caring as a young & experimental artist. That is the label's domain.
What I find surprising is people in 2024 not understanding that distinction or feeling it's valid for the original author to receive anything.
i'd have never even given a thought to adding reverb to any kind of low end sound without boosting the highs on it; if any. it's crazy because richard, as you say, is probably the greatest electronic producer that we've had, yet he breaks these "mandatory" rules that we follow so strictly today. i think we all as producers just need to allow our minds to flow naturally with what we feel the most, regardless to peoples opinions. my own tracks that i dislike the most somehow have the most views/plays i've ever got. just shows how each individual ear hears certain sounds differently from the other.
Great content !! Keep em coming Bro.
this is really solid! sampling is art.
So is creating music from nothing. Where would sampling be without recorded music made by real musicians?
@@HDSPKSRecords-gi1ob how do you create music from nothing?
@@HDSPKSRecords-gi1ob What's your point? Plenty of great music has been made without sampling.
yes, it is..czcams.com/video/5AqHSvR9bqs/video.htmlsi=4mGVtq-kO10Q18pn
I think it's crappy behaviour to not give credit where it's due but Steve Jeffries is living in cloud cuckoo land if he honestly thinks these two tracks are the same, aside from the drums.
Sure, but I'd probably exaggerate if I was sampled with no credit or money.
@@dalek604 and had 30 years to stew over it.
I'm not a musician but know the track well. It reminds me of the kind of thing you make, you know like a drawing, late at night or some moment where you experiment and put it to one side, as he says not thinking it would be seen. That's always the work that stands out. But it takes a kind of instinct to do, spot that.
Richard's use of resampling to create that iconic pitched vocal stab is what makes the track for me, the progression just has a longing sound to it that could never be replicated without that human touch, and ironically, if Richard hadn't used the vocal top layer as well, I don't think anyone would have ever noticed it was lifted from Evil at Play. If Steve thinks that Xtal is 'musically the same as what they created', then he must think a lot of himself because it's genius! Someone please challenge him to get in the studio and create a track half as good as Xtal sampling one of Richard's other tracks, we'll see how that goes 😛
I wish he would sample my music. I would be thrilled.
If he did he should pay you, he's not straped for cash.
Love your channel BTW.
Me: Mom, I want Xtal.
Mom: But we already have Xtal.
Xtal at home:
Cool how the kick reverb completely eats up the pitched "oom, oom" part of the sound
The vocal is actually from a library music CD, I had it in the 90s