Will 's-Hertogenbosch ban cars from its ringroad?
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- čas přidán 13. 05. 2024
- [Ep. 1027] The city of 's-Hertogenbosch has announced an upcoming plan for the reconstruction of the inner ring road around the historic city center. Fewer cars on the ring is the aim for which part of the ring road will be closed to motor traffic!
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'The center of s-Hertogenbosch is beautiful. I worked there for many years. Greetz from Brazil.
It is indeed.
I like that they give expected economic growth as well, really should calm down the 'its bad for bussiness' folks. Even here in Utrecht there are small protests against new plans in the Overvecht neighbourhood which would lower the number of cars. One of the main arguments is that it would be bad for local businesses over there, but often the opposite is the case. RTV Utrecht recently posted a video on it.
It's the same game everywhere: NL, Germany, Denmark... while it's planned, "local businesses" complain about how bad this will be for them. When it's done we see the same effects everywhere: More customers, spending more money because they feel good and stay longer. Here in Germany this comes to ridiculus levels of fighting for the cars, I hope that it is not as extreme in other european countries, because that would be very sad to realize that the stupid people are distributed all over the continent and not cleanly confined here... 😜
There has been an ongoing shift of businesses in the city centers. Furniture, DIY, specialized shops and appliances went out to the edge of the city where car access is still easy. Even bike shops, and bike repair went out. Fashion, opticians and shoe shops came in, just like bars and restaurants.
So not every business profits from banning cars from the city center.
Also due to internet, many visit a shop at the edge of the city to look at a washing machine, and if the choice is made, they order it on internet for the lowest price. A lot of businesses went broke because of it.
The character of the city center has clearly changed in the last decades.
@@hschmidt79Complaining about complaining? Fear of change is a thing. Many of those complaining will turn out to have valid complaints. It’s not helping get more improvements by adding to the anger. Let’s be realistic and understanding. Many owners are willing to take a hit for the good of the community if they are treated more fairly. It doesn’t ever help get cooperation to make those affected feel attacked, unheard, and treated as being ignorant and selfish.
I’m wondering if these changes are not sometimes responsible for displacement. Doesn’t gentrification of a sort often result? Doesn’t this just push the lower classes out of the centre and force them into public transport to maintain jobs in the centre?
@@nunyabidness3075 A legitimate concern. That's why recently a law was passed obliging municipalities
to build a certain (higher) percentage of social housing projects within their city limits.
A recent article showed that those cameras at 1:37 fined 9.000 cars in just two months. As the fines are around €100, I can definitely see the municipality going forward with it 🙃
Hm, makes me want to file for a municipality tax reduction… 🤔😜
When I read the article in BD it strongly reminded me of when Tilburg, the next city over, announced their plans a couple years ago to change the "Cityring" into the "Parkring". Less car traffic, 30 kph, even right down to the words used like "losknippen" (to cut loose)! I'm personally so excited for when it's finished and although the citycenter is a mess of a constructionsite right now, I'm sure it'll be worth it. I'm happy that the same is gonna be happening in Den Bosch!
God damn, I am sick with envy. Not only Poland is totally car-centric, but what infuriates me car drivers block sidewalks (it is against the law officially, but police of course is "blind") but also sidewalks are designed and built for car, not pedestrians -- next to the buildings they are skewed, so if you walk along you constantly tilt towards the street. For disabled person this is like a torture.
Been to Krakow a month ago; I seriously envy the tram network that city has. (I don’t know where you live but we were able to travel anywhere we wanted by bike or tram. 🤩) I wish we would have more trams. 🚈
@@peternouwen Not Kraków, but I bet my city does not have bad tram network as well (but I have no data to compare those two). But I am not pointing at trams, but cars, there "have" to be high-volume streets right into the center of city/town/village because noble/serious people use cars. It is sign of their status, so it is "stupid" to move on foot, or by tram. Please visit Ostróda for example (peek at map suffice though), it could be a gem placed at the lakes, but right at the center is crazy multi-crossing high-traffic roads. Madness. Even if other cities does not follow such extremes, the pattern is the same, cars first, and later let's add maybe something for others (like in Grudziądz -- asphalt for cars, paving stones for sidewalks, gravel for bicycles; not to mention dangerous profiles, lack of warning signs, etc). Ok, I stop there 🙂
i dont live in den bosch anymore but im glad they are trying new things to cut the car traffic and make certain places more attractive to walk and cycle besides the city centre. i know they have been trying to give the zuid willemvaart a new makeover for a while now and make it more park like
So glad to hear! Too many Dutch cities have a lovely city center, but a massive, hideous, loud, and dangerous ring road RIGHT OUTSIDE it. Culemborg for example doesn't have a ring road, but all but the main plaza of the center area is open to cars, and during rush hour it's absolute hell being near there with so many drivers going through a dense tight area that with lots of people living and working there.
that's why I usually see ring roads as a necessary evil, concentrating the mayhem to one spot while keeping everything else at very few cars. But there are now more and more cities removing them. With these new concepts you have to drive completely out of the city, onto a motorway or other long distance road and back into the city from another side - no longer only discouraging, but almost completely banning car trips within the city…
American city planners need to watch these videos because they could learn a lot.
Good video. Well said.
It is a start but not comprehensive enough, not even close. As usual, local governments think 12345 while they should be thinking 54321, while in a few years there will different politicians that have different views on 345. That is why you should start with 5 and then work backwards.
One of the main problems in the old inner city is the parking facilities of the people that live there, leading to parking allover the place, specially when they have visiting family and friends. The parking garage in the Sint Josephstraat and Wolvenhoek (only exception for people that have to visit "het Stadskantoor") should be exclusively for residents, not the public.
Streets like the Zuidwal, Hekellaan, the area around the train station, Diezebrug, Zuid-Willemsvaart (1 kant), and maybe some more, should be closed to all motorized traffic and instead built affordable housing but not high-rise or "betonblokken" but a some sort of resort style living in design, attractive to look at but where people are able to live in financially. The Zuid-Willemsvaart (JBZ location) could be housing for the elderly that still capable to live on their own with the planned park there (is that still accurate?). These plans should not be seen separate from the housing crisis and the need to have people move up in life's cycle to make room for the ones that can't get any. What is the use of making areas car free when there is no follow up plan and what to do with the available space while at the same time there are huge other problems. It is an opportunity that can't be ignored and should be interconnected. Not a "maybe later".
There must be drop-off zones, more "pendelbussen" (or even a new autonomous tram system or even a covered conveyor-belt system from these zones) and a lot less traffic lights. Bike traffic should be separated from motorized traffic so the speed can be increased and the bulk can go through faster. 30Km-zones sounds nice but also piles things up like "dikke stroop" (in Den Bosch zeggen we dat iets anders), specially when he need for traffic lights is not reduced.
It is funny that with every plan, any government comes up with, they always claim it increases something positive and later it turns out to be a farce. The government's "publieke aanbestedingen" for example, never, ever turn out to be any less than 200-300% over budgeted. Now they claim an increase of 16% but in a few years they will tell us they didn't consider, and they had no way of knowing, that if visitors cannot drive up close to the shop, started to buy more online or go to places where cars can be parked and that the former politicians made a mistake, not them. When Den Bosch looses it regional shopping function, incomes will deteriorate, shops will close, then there is also no need to invest this large in making the inner city car-free. That would be an extremely expensive open-air museum you created... Not withstanding that the "markt" tradition should be brought back to life as one of the main attractions.
It is not all about hockey, musea, jazz and culinary display. The majority of people is not in that salary range... not to mention that Den Bosch as "uitgaansstad" died years ago already. That generation now occupies the "bruine cafeetjes" but what when no longer are available? What is left then? American tourists, Duitse kuilengravers, Pizza Huts, Taco Bells or air-BNB's?
These plans should be made by the commercial sector with support of the public system, not solely the public system because that always turns out to be a "wassen neus" or half a plan at best. Decisions should not be made by someone with a Youp brilletje and a golf ball "in zijn reet" but by and for "Bosschenaren" from all ranks of (local) society.
Mechelen (BE) recently did an overhaul of their inner ring as well. Essentially they turned most of it in a one-directional flow. That seriously reduces your opportunities to enter the city, since you have to plan in advance where you want to go and how to get there (by car), while still maintaining the traffic flow for the outer parts of the city.
Mooi zo. Dit mogen ze bij mij voor de deur ook wel doen. Word echt moe van al die auto's die mijn straat als sluiproute gebruiken, terwijl er gewoon een snelweg 500 meter verderop is.
Way to go, Netherlands!
Your videos make me miss 's-Hertogenbosch.
Everything I know about ‘s-Hertogenbosch comes from Jet Lag
Apostrophe S hertogenbosch
Which probably isn't a lot since they only stopped at the train station
@@Alexis-lt3zy What do you mean? The correct spelling is ‘s-Hertogenbosch, exactly as Skip6235 wrote it.
@@GuusJanssen It's just a way to pronounce it (in English). Like Jeremy Clarkson called the Volkswagen Up! the "Volkswagen Up Exclamation mark" or the Kia Cee'd the "Kia C Apostrophe D"
@@LarsvanderHeide Shouldn't it have been apostrophe S hyphen hertogenbosch then?
Aachen is doing the same and many other cities have done this already. I'm very happy about this development!
Aachen has ambitious plans but they have been a bit slow to implement them so far (imho). Do you also know what they plan for the ring road in Aachen, because that's absolutely terrible with it's four lanes of car traffic and narrow bicycle gutters.
@@_yonasThey're planning better bike infrastructure and what they have rebuilt is mostly quite good. I'd give the redesigned sections a 7.5/10 when Dutch roads are a 10
Great to see that. If only Breda would follow their example...
For real, it’d be such a logical addition to the Nieuwe Mark project and such
something drastic has to change for that to happen. Breda is a suprisingly libertarian city that has prioritised cars over anything else. Cycling there is like stepping back in time 30 years ago, especially in Vlaszak and the singels as the bikepaths rarely existed which sometimes means cycling on a narrow buslane with a bus every minute and you often weren't allowed to turn left at intersections. Things are improving but very slowly and still often with cars first which sucks couse the city center is one of the most gorgeous ones I have ever seen.
I feel like I missed the news, last I knew/saw was there was a lot of ado about a roundabout construction on the kardinaal van Rossumplien. With a member of the PvdD stating that it won't be safe, and we need to make the city center autoluw.
Den Bosch is my favourite city in the Netherlands, so many beautiful places in the inner city (probably also in the Suburbs as well)
Less traffic on ring roads doesn't mean less traffic on the remaining roads?
its scary to see my house in a video lol, great video
My city is doing the exact same thing at the moment - we also have two ring roads (both follow the old city walls from two different periods) and the inner is planned to be cut off to through traffic by modal filters and the outer is planned to be better for MIV with rare, but safe crossings for other modes. The problem is that my city is german and not dutch, so the planning phase alone is scheduled for the next 5 years and will certainly overrun as they always do... sometimes our love for bureaucracy is really annoying...
Good to hear a German city going in the same direction - even though, for many even having a ring road around a mostly car free center would be a huge improvement… Which city is that?
Lijkt me een goed plan. Mooie stad overigens… 😊
Superb!!! Ban the dammed cars!
More P+R please, they're improving but far from great. Large P+R parking garages combined with trams/metro is great.
2:18 It looks like a motorist got caught for driving too fast (a flash of a speed camera).
Not sure about that, I don't see how a camera flash would end up looking like a white blur that's extending far above the car and on the lower right even covers the traffic light pole that's much closer than the car. If that were due to lens flare then there should be a bright spot somewhere but there isn't. Maybe a dust particle flying past the lens or something like that?
How do emergency vehicles deal with these kinds of roads? I am sure there’s a way just don’t know how (video idea?)
Emergency vehicles in most of Europe are built differently, basically they are smaller than the average size of North American vehicles. They have be, most of Europe's cities have a centre that has to be reached with limited width. Just Google it, you'd be surprised.
In Mechelen (BE) they turned half of the ring in buslanes, essentially, creating a one-directional flow. So those are open for emergency cars & taxi's.
Either there's still physical passage but just a camera-enforced prohibition (which obviously wouldn't apply to emergency vehicles), or automatic movable bollards, or just some alternative path (e.g. briefly go on the sidewalk to bypass a barrier). Rest assured that they obviously have to make sure accessibility for emergency vehicles is not compromised.
@@MatthijsvanDuin Hmmm...
Mathijs, ik weet niet hoe ver Nederland ondertussen is gedegradeerd, maar het ergste wat ik in België zie gebeuren, is mensen op de snelweg in de file die een afslag willen nemen en ipv te wachten op de afslag, 1km up front de vluchtstrook nemen...
En natuurlijk het gebrek aan knipperlichtgebruik in BMW's 😀
In Mechelen is er een zichtbaar verschil tussen de éénrichtings-busstrook en de éénrichtings-autostroken. Dus "de verkeerde richting nemen" is lastig. Teveel warning signs, zoals borden en vernauwing van de stroken etc.
It could very well be that cityplanners in the Netherlands are watching this channel to help them making plans like this.
Awesome channel. Thx! Please think about to use camera with bigger resolution, 4k maybe, will bring more enjoy to watching your videos.
I finally get to hear how this name is supposed to be pronouced
Usually, Dutch people would call it by its alternative name: Den Boss (spelled Den Bosch). But that's slightly more informal.
Yes, you can leave that to Bicycle Dutch! There is nothing wrong with calling 's-Hertogenbosch Den Bosch, but that's slightly informal comparable to Philly vs Philadelphia. I suppose no one would say: 'The Mayor of Philly'.
@@var67 Say yes, but write no. This is different from Den Haag vs 's-Gravenhage, which are both officially correct.
They should at least try it for a few months to study the effects.
You forget something important: It is a Dutch city. Wouldn't be surprised if this has been in the making over a period of 25+ years... You can lead a horse towards the water, you just can't make it drink.
When will we get trams to The Maaspoort, Groote Wielen/Rosmalen, Vught/ St. Michielsgestel and Helftheuvel/Vlijmen/ Engelen?🚈
The focus is on bikes and on the city center, but people who live more than 5 km from the station and can’t or don’t want to cycle that distance, are surprisingly car-dependent. Especially commuters, which presents itself in exponentially rising congestion stats. 🤔
Je hebt helemaal gelijk. Het lijkt me om die reden verschrikkelijk om in bv Groote Wielen te wonen
I also have an opposite view to that expressed here in the video and comments. This is just a lot of over - engineering on the part of the city council for the sake of a few residents living in the city centre i.e. mainly students, singles, young and rich couples and those delivery boys on bicycles working for uber eats or thuisbezorgd. It is better to focus on making cars becoming electric rather than stopping them from inner city certain routes. That way you cut down on pollution and noise while allowing families with children in tow to use their preferred mode of transport i.e. a car to visit their city center. I have stopped going to the city center with anyone even outside busy hours because of the ludicrous parking rates even when those parking garages are empty. I am sure the city center will be happy when all those shops go bankrupt and get filled instead with just everyday supermarkets and MCDonalds/Burger Kings/ KFCs or with Chanels and Gucci type shops for the rich. Anybody else intended to start a business in the city area should think hard.
One can hope that Eindhoven follows the same route... Its ring road is cancer. Mindboggling how it still boasts a 70 km/h speed limit within the city.
These changes, much like congestion fees, would seem to be very hard on lower classes who are forced into public transport for one or both spouses. Is that ever considered?
's-Hertogenbosch is only about 5 km across, perfect size for cycling.
What you're saying makes no sense anyway, the houses in the city center remain accessible by car, all they're doing is routing through-traffic around the city instead of _through_ the city. Also, encouraging the use of alternative modes of transport (by all social classes) within the city is explicitly the goal here. You also seem to think a lower class household would own two cars? I wonder what the statistics are for that in the Netherlands.
Impossible to introduce in Denmark. With previously 22% of all trips made by bike, now down to 13%…
Here the dominant traffic discourse is as n the USA: aggressive and dangerous towards bicycles, treating bicycles as only toys for children, viewing eternal growth in empty cars as an unstoppable law of nature. Car fascist culture in its essence.
Syill…the myth in Denmark is that our country is “very environmentally friendly”…🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That is highly surprising news. What reversed former developments?
just remove the cars, lowering speed limit do nothing, if you need the street for bike commute you need to ban cars in that street.
That's the plan. He mentioned it in the video
Bicycles and cars go together perfectly fine, when the streets are designed well. Not everyone that needs to be in a city centre lives in a city.
Public transport is nowhere near a replacement for a car in the majority of the country so until then destinations need to be accessible by car.
Do be aware that the Dutch sensibly do not just put up 30kph signs; they actually know how to design roads for lower speeds.
@@autobootpiloot Bicycles and cars go together perfectly fine when car volumes meet CROW manual guidelines. Or in other words, when car volumes are access only.