Join me on a road trip where I ramble on and weigh in on some recent questions about the Hornady announcements from last fall. Join this channel to get access to perks: / @primalrights
@@neilb1619 honestly I didn’t think that far into it. I’m sure he didn’t edit out every time he passed a car though. Sorry I’m such an idiot for not realizing that people edit videos.
Yeah I agree. I think it’s about a perfect balance for heavy for caliber bullets and recoil. I have a 270wsm, among others, and it’s hard to justify a 6.8, especially since it’s support is so minimal. 6.5 PRC I guess is close, but it’s basically a 270win to reasonable hunting ranges. I’d rather have the heavier bullets and larger diameter of the 6.8. 7PRC is above my recoil threshold.
Yeah I was really hoping other companies were going to make brass for it. I’m glad I didn’t get anything for it but I feel like it would have been better than the 6.5 prc for just about everyone. Better than a 7 prc even for deer and even elk to a decent distance. I’ve gone with the 7 prc myself for hunting and put together a rifle in 25 sst that does good for targets and hoping to try out on deer before too long.
It's quite satisfying listening to a guy, while he is driving down the dusty road talking about guns and ammo, and making you feel really good about yourself by the end of the video. Amazing, thank you. Can't wait for the next video!
One of the most even handed and candid assessments I've heard on recent firearm calibers developments. Caused me to hit the subscribe button. Thanks. As an apostolic Christian the wrap up was icing on the cake, or it was the cake and the ammo talk was icing.
Greg, thank you for the video. I was excited to see the release of the 22ARC. My wife and daughters have used a 223 AR-15 several times on Eastern SD whitetails. It has worked but this new cartridge looks to be more effective for a rifle that adjusts for the whole family. I have already purchased some ammo for the rifle I have yet to buy. Have a great day.
When I first saw the 22Arc I thought it would be a winner. In an AR15 I think its going to be fantastic, in a bolt gun it will probably be great to. I wish hornady wouldn't say "22-250 performance" because it won't be but it'll probably be the best performer in a ar15 platform. I thought about doing a 22 Grendal years ago but didn't want to deal with the wildcat, this is similar. Buddy wants one, he has a 22-250 in an ar10, and that small frame 22-250 but one you can't get mags for and getting 22-250 to feed has been a nightmare. Hornady has been hitting g it out of the park with their cartridge designs and the way the go about it, they're new varmint bullets are interesting as well.
I am still quite new to this, so I don't understand the automatic hate that some new things seem to get. In my thinking, having more options is always a good thing. The real world use will determine if it ends up being a good idea/product or trash. Like, wait to see how something actually works before trashing it online, lol. I like the idea of some of the new things they announced, but I am currently committed to my 6 Creedmoor PRS rifle. Maybe in the future if I build another or find a point that I need some different performance, I will consider the 22 Creed. I know right now my rifle is more capable than I am. But, I am a determined and fast learner, so I hope to reach it's full potential this year!! I think it will be very interesting to see where these new cartridges take off and who ends up liking them the most. I am excited to see all that comes from this!! Have a wonderful 2024 Greg! Hope to talk to you soon!!
I have a 22 ARC Bolt gun 18" Barrel and send 55 gr pills down range at 3400 without pushing it too hard. I think it is going to shine as a shorter barreled suppressed rifle. 22-250 is faster but also shines with a 24" barrel and takes about 10 grains more powder and a large rifle primer to get it done. I am all about efficiency and this round does it.
Why the 22 arc when the 22 nosler can achieve the same velocities in the same barrel length with the same grain bullet? Ammo availability is about the same. One company is making ammo for the 22 arc just like the 22 nosler. I guess what I'm asking is why do we need another 22 cartridge that does the same thing?
@weldmonger1560 . Hornady is good about getting its rounds in affordable rifles. A cartridge needs the support of the occasional hunter. The guys who buy a gun and 4 boxes of ammo a year or that you get your kid for their first deer and varmint rifle. I’d be interested in the 22nosler but I can’t name a company who offers one, and if I’m going custom and reloading the benefit is kinda lost. .02
22 Nosler is essentially obsolete. I’m waiting to see if the 22arc is better supported. I liked the 224 Valkyrie but passed on it due to lack of support. We’ll see with the arc.
With any new cartridge, people must remember, it is a culmination of factors. Barrel length, barrel twist, bullet weight, bullet configuration, powder type, powder charge, primers, brass. The ARC fills the in-between with the 22's. Listen to the developers and look at the numbers. You will see it.
Very well said. Something else people dont truly compare apples to apples and they tend to look exstensively at everything involved then say that x y or z is junk or they wont use it. But I love the video very well said. Thank You sir keep up the good work.
My only real issue with Hornady is that they don't seem to fully support some of the cartridges they come out with before moving on to the next big thing. The 6 ARC is a prime example. I think they get so overextended on the latest new products that they can't properly ramp up production on the previous new ones. I love new cartridges--the more, the merrier--provided there are material supplies available in sufficient quantities for handloading. I don't expect that immediately, but it's frustrating when several years pass and the manufacturer is still not able to satisfy the market. I think in some cases they've simply grown too fast and don't have the production equipment sufficient to meet demand or they miscalculate the degree to which a given new cartridge will generate interest/demand. (Edit: I just got to 17:30 in your vid where you refer to 6 ARC) On another topic, I know you're not an AR guy, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on 300 HAM'R. New subscriber here, so you may have already spoken about it.
I have a 22-250 and love it! What I don't like is people saying your stupid or dumb or something else to that effect. I can push a 75gr hornady bthp match bullet 3250fps from my bergara b14 hunter with the 1in9 twist barrel and that's pretty go. However when the barrel goes out I will probably rebarrel to 22 creedmoor though.
There isn't a whole lot of difference between the 22-250 and the 22 CM, if you've already got a fast-twist 22-250. A bit less case stretch, a bit longer case life, a bit more accuracy based on reamer specs with the 22 CM.
Great thoughts mate, I couldn’t agree anymore. Every rifle I have in a Hornady offering shoots great with their cost effective projectiles. This video sure makes me want to add a 22 creedmoor to my collection. Cheers.
Haha Good spill I kind of wished Hornady would not have come out with the 22 Creedmore just to keep it away from all those folks pls that don’t load. But all good points Now side not I am not a big gas gun either and everyone always asked me why. I tell them I don’t like picking up brass
I really like what Hornady is doing with their new cartridge lines, that’s why I own 3 of them. If I hadn’t of just bought a.22-250 it would be 4 rifles chambered in Hornady cartridges. The.22 Creedmoor sounds like a versatile cartridge.
Interesting to hear your thoughts on the whole "H" train. Living in Australia... we have a massive lag on pick up and imports for cartridges. I am really keen for the .22 CM to get some more support from factory, I wait with baited breather for the .25CM to come along 😅 The quick pull over and dispatch the prairie dog 🤣🤣🤣, I have been mid call and pulled over to knock over a rabbit. Glad to see I'm not the only one! People don't like new / good or change or improvement and with how the sport is suffering with the stigma around it we have an aged group and a group who don't see the need for development. The rant directed toward the .22-250 users😂 having been one... I can understand it.
I agree completely but i cant see it going as cheap as 223 if it did, it would not phase it out but keep up with it atleast, i love the efficiency and price of it! Something that reaches out far or hits hard for its cal is awesome and for fairly cheap compaired to others when reloading
You got my sub when you popped that critter in the field from the driver seat and cemented my viewership with your rant on the keyboard warriors!!! Keep up the great work!
I mostly shoot competitions, NRL hunter in 6.5creedmoor, but i struggle with PRS style matches so I have a 223 PRS trainer/fun gun in the works. I think once i finish a year or so of basically dryfire+p with 223 in the "tactical division" i can swap the barrel and bolt and now have a caliber that takes the same powder, primer, and bullets as my 223 but give me actual competitive performance against the 6mm BR crowds. Edit, so point is, that's my justification for being excited for a 22ARC bolt gun
I've never been a Hornady critic, rather, I like Hornady's products and their innovation. People love to be critical of things they know nothing about. My only critique with the new cartridges is the scarcity of brass. I'd love to play with .25 Creedmoor, .22CM and .300 PRC and maybe some others but I rarely or never see brass for them and on the rare occasion that I do, it's very very pricey. And the availability of rifles chambered in the new cartridges is just as scarce or non-existent. Maybe Hornady should take their manufacturing expertise and build a rifle plant next to their ammo plant to start making rifles to go with their new cartridges. Imagine if they applied their innovation skills to rifles...
@@gregpace4676 LOL, I waited that long to make sure it wasn't just a fad cartridge before buying one. I just bought a better one 3 weeks ago to replace the first one that was a "meh" budget rifle. It was a project rifle though and I got it to shoot 1/3 MOA after putting some effort into it. But it was only a 22" barrel and I couldn't get the velocities our of it that I wanted. This one is a Browning X-Bolt with a 26" barrel so I'm sure I'll be much happier with it.
My 6 ARC is fantastic. I haven’t spent enough quality time with the 22 ARC due to ammunition scarcity to determine what it is capable of. So far, it has been sub-MOA out of my AR. I have about 50 rounds through it. The 6 ARC seems to be a tiny bit better in the wind than the 22 ARC. I am planning for a 22 Creedmoor at some point. My Hornady 62 grain Vmatch in 22 ARC has a rated velocity of 3,300 fps. I am sure it is rated for the AR platform and giving up some performance compared to a bolt gun pressure limit.
They are doing a little marketing, I think the 22 ARC would be a good fit for me because I don't have time to do very much loading right now. I can pop an upper on an ar15 and get a little more performance. If I do get time to load, it will use less powder, and cheaper bullets.
Totally agree with you I started hand loading in the late 1970s and and back then you pretty much had to if you wanted good accuracy. ( Back then Hornady only made projectiles) Now days like you say if you buy buy a rifle in a Hornady cartridge you can buy some of there ammo and chances are it will work well for you?
You're so right about Hornady doing it right! A few years ago I got interested in getting a "modern" rifle. Wandered into my local Sportsmans Warehouse and they had the 6mm Creedmoor, Ruger Precision Rifle marked down to something ridiculous. They also had Hornady 6 Creed ammo on hand, as well as brass, bullets and dies... All Hornady. Easy button! For less than a grand I walked out with a whole new rifle & cartridge to mess with! All Hornady & Ruger. I already had a good Vortex high magnification scope. It's a bit heavy, but accurate and reliable.
I’ve got reloading dies for the two 22 ARC barrels I have on order and I have 3 boxes of the new 22 ELD-VT 62 grain bullets . And Hornady is saying 3000 fps with 75 Grn 22 bullets and 2800 fos with 88 Grn bullets . That’s smokin out of an AR-15 ( if it actually gets there ) I’ve ordered a 16” and a 22” ARC so we’ll see . I’ve got 2 6ARC these are the ONLY 2 cartridges I’ve ever been on the bandwagon for . I’m 51 and I didn’t get a 6.5CM till 4 yrs ago . Prior to that it was 223 , 22-250 , 308 , 30-06 . I look forward to the new ARC .
You did this entire video and mentioned every single cartridge in the Creedmoor and PRC lines, and the 22 ARC without once mentioning the 6 ARC. But in all honesty the ELD-VT projectile they developed with the 22 ARC is going to be super interesting in a 22 Creedmoor.
I use the 6ARC in a bolt gun. Why? It is the foundation of my budget precision rifle (Savage + chassis). It is inexpensive to shoot, easy to load, and easy to shoot accurate due to the lack of recoil. The 22 ARC is a sign that they see the 6ARC as a hit.
Any new developments that promote our sport should be encouraged. Typically, the market will determine if an idea has merit, but there are times when good ideas are overlooked and poor ideas gain followers. If a shooter is enjoying their project, it's beneficial to all of us. While it may not seem like it, we are currently living in an age of tremendous development for the shooters. We need to promote development every way we can. I have been a long time fan of the 220 Swift, but I don't begrudge those who choose the 22-250 - okay, I do, but only in jest. The point is, no matter the reason, positive experiences ensure that our sport grows. That is a good thing. This video was the most unabashed promotion I've ever witnessed. And coming from someone I respect due to their commitment to independent-thinking, I was quite taken aback. But I couldn't agree more. If the available information is accurate, the 22 ARC checks all the boxes to be a huge success. The AR mag length, very appreciable velocity increase over 223, high BC/heavy for caliber bullets, relatively low cost factory ammo, and hopefully barrels and chambers that allow the cartridge to give the utmost in accuracy. I was contemplating building an AR in 223AI, but this video has inspired me to strongly consider building a 22 ARC once barrels become available. I choose to handload for multiple reasons, and I am already eager to see what can be done with the 22 ARC and such a choice of bullets. The Berger 70 gr VLD is a fantastic bullet in the 223 Rem, and at 22 ARC velocities it should be excellent out to very log ranges. The Hornady 75 gr ELD-M is another great bullet that just can't reach it's potential out of a 223 Rem. Potentially giving MPBR approaching 350 yards from the 22ARC! And the 80 gr ELD-X should be very capable for deer-size game. The 79 grain DRT Terminal Shock bullets and other lead-free bullets will benefit from the increased velocities also. Should improve the lethality and make the AR-15 a legitimate platform for hogs. The reasons this cartridge should succeed is extensive. Greg, if you do get into discussions with the folks at Hornady, tell them to step up their brass quality and volume. And tell them to start producing/offering their own primers! We could all use another source, they're missing a huge opportunity. Thank you for giving your honest advice/opinion every single time. Sorry, long video, long comment.
Mr. Dykstra thank you for this video. I appreciate your opinion. 1st Peter 5:7 Cast all your cares upon him; for He careth for you. Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. God commands us to take our worries and give them to him. We are to live by faith.
I still have a 6mm AR designed by Robert Whitley, Goes back for me clost to 2010. Then Hornandy came out with the 6mm Arc. Same as the AR a neck down 6.5 Grendel. So just like the creedmore family the 22 Creedmore will be a huge hit for sure going commercial with Hornandy. Greg have you ever compared the 22 creedmore to a 22-250 improved? I own an older 22-250 but its a 1:14 twist. so the bullets weights are limited. But changing to a faster twist, I was curioous your thoughts on the improved.
So the 22CM is just an improved 22-250, So to be the complete luddite I'll stick with my .220 swift. Although I agree with better brass and a blown out body the 22CM will be a better round
Hey, benchrest guy here. 6ppc and 22ppc don't have a 40-degree shoulder. Maybe there's some wildcats out there with a 40-degree shoulder, but the majority is 30 degrees. The only real differences are twist rate, the throat of the chamber, and 6ppc's shoulder is bumped back slightly from 6mm ARC.
Will the different calibers of arc and creedmoor, will they all chamber in their family or has Hornady designed the bigger ones not be able to chamber the smaller ones and be fired out of the wrong gun?
Exactly why the hate ? Choices are a beautiful thing. You have a choice to use it or not. Just sort thru the BS. I just bought 17 WSM from SGAMMO 25 gr. Thinking I should have doubled my order. But I didn't want to screw the next fellow in need. I will give it a few weeks & if they have I will order more. Just be aware shipping has seemed to take longer than usual. I usually get it in 3 days. This time is close to two weeks.
22 GT needs more love and SAAMI spec. Longer barrel life than the 22 Creed, and not much slower. It's also more forgiving when reloading and better suited for shorter barrels.
22 Creedmoor, Sierra 95gr mk around 2900fps (start load)... out to 1500yds with ease... and long barrel life. As you say, comparative ballistics vs the bigger boomers is fantastic. For the 223Rem, I run the newer MDT steel mags so can seat bullet longer vs an AR mag. With the 75gr ELDM and long OAL, velocities will be right on the heels of a 22ARC... and 223Rem brass is plentiful and often times..... Free. I like the 223 Rem for bulk shooting.
Where are u at, man? u could put a target so far away. u would have to have a telescope to see it. I live in the mountains. It's hard to find a place to shoot long-range here
Love the Hornady guys. Smart AF. Great salesman. ? Rely on the bullet sometimes!!! ? Rely on over bore tons of powder sometimes?? Wait until it's all about primer turners 😅
44:54 the new bullets are the key as far as I’m concerned. Those new bullets absolutely change the 556… not 223. 223 suck’s get a round count on both before you even argue. But these are the bullets that are going to take it closer to the 22250. That’s what they were talking to the 95% about and I see something different
The 22 arc isn't a replacement for the 22 creedmoor. It's a design for higher bc bullets in long range style of AR. It also is a good cartridge for ultra low recoiling PRS style rigs. It has way better barrel life than the creedmoor also.
Depends on what you are after. If you want to shoot light varmint bullets in the high 3000's, the 22-250 or Swift is great. If you want to shoot heavier bullets at longer ranges with top accuracy, the 22 CM is turnkey.
I don’t knock Hornady’s new cartridges ever, they are putting new efficient innovations into effect. Greg, don’t knock me on the 22creed, its a great cartridge but, its not for me, the amount of powder it uses to get those velocities are inherently inefficient. I would love the 22gt to become saami approved, it uses less powder and get similar velocities as the 22 creed, its a more efficient round, that will be my next bolt gun caliber after I sell the Valkyrie lol! Thanks for your videos and knowledge.
Hornady claims the.22 ARC will have .22-250 performance from an AR-15, not strictly just velocity... They said a 62 grain bullet will reach 3,300 fps. Being the bullet will have the long sleek modern bullet design they claim that past 300 yards the .22 ARC will overtake the .22-250's ballistically... Guess we will see. I'm excited to see the results really.
The 22 Ark should have been named the 22 Grendal. Hornady version of the 22 Ark is a 65 Grendel necked down. The 6 ark has the shoulders bumped back 30000 from the Grendel. So guys that wildcated the 22 Ark will not be able to use the factory ammo coming out for the 22 Ark.
The new 62 gr 22arc bullet awesome. The 22 arc not bad maybe a little niche but good. Hornadys marketing team not so good. Really could have worded it better
Pause- “POW” resume. 😂😂 All those trolls have their own ammunition factory and million dollar test facility, also the associated test equipment to validate their opinions. 🤯👈
I say this having at least two cartridges designed by Hornady and dies for nearly every cartridge I own... One I like, the other I got as a cheaper weaker option to protect my preferred hunting rifle... The issue with Hornady (at least for me) is they'll repackage something more or less already available without all that much improvement (if any at all) and then it becomes a propaganda crusade. ESPECIALLY when there are better options available it's particularly frustrating. And on the occasion I make the mistake of watching some of their interviews I can't help but turn them off irritated. And lastly, their reloading manuals are laughably biased to favor their cartridges (a behavior I see far less prevalent with some of their competitors such as Nosler as an example). In their defense on the other hand, they churn out bullets in good volume for reloading (I am not crazy about their hunting options though). Their brass is a little soft but at least reasonably consistent. They have a few tools that the only good alternatives cost a kidney. Heck, for that matter... Save for a few insanely priced items, most of their equipment is fairly reasonably priced to even cheap possibly (and doesn't get the hate Lee does) while being moderately well constructed to match.
Wait wait wait wait They never said it can get 22x250 velocities... they said you get 22x250 performance... which is actually tru when you look at 35 grain going 4k but out of gas by 300 The 22 arc retains its velocities so even tho it starts out slower the heavier higher BC bullet is still traveling lightning fast at 300 because of retained velocities Now i agree they stretch there marketing just weeeeee bit however when you dig deep in the science of it they are 100% right and if the 22 arc does not have the same failure the 224 valk had i bet itll be pretty popular for the AR15 community
Hornady is out to be number one in ammo. They most likely are currently. The bullets that they came up with in the PRC's had a demand and was worth the investment and they had the ability to sell them. It makes zero sense for a major bullet company just to come up with a bullet similar to many wildcats that has not got enough market to sustain. We have a newer cartridge today that seems to be dying a slow death the 300 WSM. If companies just did that all the time, they would go broke. Hornady does a good job business wise in what they have done to become number one. I am not an all-in Hornady fan, but they have cost efficient bullets, and the availability of their bullets surpasses everyone else. I prefer Sierra bullets, but they often can't keep up with availability. Look at the 7mm STW. I had a rifle re-barreled in it when it was a wildcat. The next year it was chambered in rifles that sold for less than I paid for a re-barrel. However now it is a factory load, where is the ammo availability? It's rare to find on the shelves of gun stores and it isn't even chambered anymore unless special ordered. Rest my case on crazy for company's just making new chamberings just to make them. I have no problem with new cartridges. I have bought many and they seem to still be alive today. It is best to not invest too much in a new thing until enough guns are out there you know the availability of the ammo will still be there. Unless of course you make your own and have no problem with that. I was there myself on my 7mm STW years ago. There is some fun in wildcats.
Hornady is not even close to #1 in ammo. Federal, Remington, Wichester are WAY bigger than Hornady. Fed and Win probably make more 9mm alone than Hornady makes total including all their offerings. Now if you want to talk about component bullets. yeah they make inexpensive cup and core tipped bullets. They are really good at marketing compared to other bullet manufacturers. Hornady has just come to be a ammunition manufacturer that other companies pay attention to vs. a component company as they were thought of in the past. However, look at awards they won at shows like the NRA show. They won an award for a gun safe...nothing to do with ammo. And at that it is a modular safe which have been on the market for years.
I just jealous that you drove 46 minutes and only passed 2 cars.
You know that the video was edited, right?
@@neilb1619 honestly I didn’t think that far into it. I’m sure he didn’t edit out every time he passed a car though. Sorry I’m such an idiot for not realizing that people edit videos.
I didn’t edit out but 5 minutes of travel. So yeah… no one lives around me.
You were right. Nobody is out here. 👍. I love it.
Population density matters.
Very well spoken. "I am not going to die on that hill", " Not in my wheel house"
The 6.8 Western is another great cartridge with a failed launch....
And a lot of hate. I’m a fan of the 6.8 also
Yeah I agree. I think it’s about a perfect balance for heavy for caliber bullets and recoil. I have a 270wsm, among others, and it’s hard to justify a 6.8, especially since it’s support is so minimal. 6.5 PRC I guess is close, but it’s basically a 270win to reasonable hunting ranges. I’d rather have the heavier bullets and larger diameter of the 6.8. 7PRC is above my recoil threshold.
Yeah I was really hoping other companies were going to make brass for it. I’m glad I didn’t get anything for it but I feel like it would have been better than the 6.5 prc for just about everyone. Better than a 7 prc even for deer and even elk to a decent distance. I’ve gone with the 7 prc myself for hunting and put together a rifle in 25 sst that does good for targets and hoping to try out on deer before too long.
It's quite satisfying listening to a guy, while he is driving down the dusty road talking about guns and ammo, and making you feel really good about yourself by the end of the video. Amazing, thank you. Can't wait for the next video!
That rant toward the end directed at the 22-250 guys and the legacy cartridges was epic sir. 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼
One of the most even handed and candid assessments I've heard on recent firearm calibers developments. Caused me to hit the subscribe button. Thanks. As an apostolic Christian the wrap up was icing on the cake, or it was the cake and the ammo talk was icing.
Greg, thank you for the video.
I was excited to see the release of the 22ARC. My wife and daughters have used a 223 AR-15 several times on Eastern SD whitetails. It has worked but this new cartridge looks to be more effective for a rifle that adjusts for the whole family. I have already purchased some ammo for the rifle I have yet to buy.
Have a great day.
I really needed to hear the message also. I hope God continues to bless you.
When I first saw the 22Arc I thought it would be a winner.
In an AR15 I think its going to be fantastic, in a bolt gun it will probably be great to.
I wish hornady wouldn't say "22-250 performance" because it won't be but it'll probably be the best performer in a ar15 platform.
I thought about doing a 22 Grendal years ago but didn't want to deal with the wildcat, this is similar.
Buddy wants one, he has a 22-250 in an ar10, and that small frame 22-250 but one you can't get mags for and getting 22-250 to feed has been a nightmare.
Hornady has been hitting g it out of the park with their cartridge designs and the way the go about it, they're new varmint bullets are interesting as well.
Thanks for the challenge. I needed that and what you shared in the Lord!
Exact info that I want and need! Thank you sir
Missed Church today.....got my sermon anyway! God Bless
I am still quite new to this, so I don't understand the automatic hate that some new things seem to get. In my thinking, having more options is always a good thing. The real world use will determine if it ends up being a good idea/product or trash. Like, wait to see how something actually works before trashing it online, lol. I like the idea of some of the new things they announced, but I am currently committed to my 6 Creedmoor PRS rifle. Maybe in the future if I build another or find a point that I need some different performance, I will consider the 22 Creed. I know right now my rifle is more capable than I am. But, I am a determined and fast learner, so I hope to reach it's full potential this year!!
I think it will be very interesting to see where these new cartridges take off and who ends up liking them the most. I am excited to see all that comes from this!!
Have a wonderful 2024 Greg! Hope to talk to you soon!!
BRAVO! Well said! Unfortunately, it will likely fall on deft ears of the intended target!
I also hope some peeps at Hornady are listening! THANK YOU!
The 30 super carry is the only new cartridge I bagged on.
Great video and great perspective Greg! Love it!
I have a 22 ARC Bolt gun 18" Barrel and send 55 gr pills down range at 3400 without pushing it too hard. I think it is going to shine as a shorter barreled suppressed rifle. 22-250 is faster but also shines with a 24" barrel and takes about 10 grains more powder and a large rifle primer to get it done. I am all about efficiency and this round does it.
Why the 22 arc when the 22 nosler can achieve the same velocities in the same barrel length with the same grain bullet? Ammo availability is about the same. One company is making ammo for the 22 arc just like the 22 nosler. I guess what I'm asking is why do we need another 22 cartridge that does the same thing?
@weldmonger1560 . Hornady is good about getting its rounds in affordable rifles. A cartridge needs the support of the occasional hunter. The guys who buy a gun and 4 boxes of ammo a year or that you get your kid for their first deer and varmint rifle. I’d be interested in the 22nosler but I can’t name a company who offers one, and if I’m going custom and reloading the benefit is kinda lost. .02
22 Nosler is essentially obsolete. I’m waiting to see if the 22arc is better supported. I liked the 224 Valkyrie but passed on it due to lack of support. We’ll see with the arc.
The 22 Arc is very exciting. Exactly as you said, replace the boring old 223. It makes the 22cal a bit more interesting.
All shooting just about same bullets same fps, same same as we have learned
With any new cartridge, people must remember, it is a culmination of factors.
Barrel length, barrel twist, bullet weight, bullet configuration, powder type, powder charge, primers, brass.
The ARC fills the in-between with the 22's. Listen to the developers and look at the numbers. You will see it.
Very well said. Something else people dont truly compare apples to apples and they tend to look exstensively at everything involved then say that x y or z is junk or they wont use it. But I love the video very well said. Thank You sir keep up the good work.
I’m sticking with the old school uncool stuff. Plenty of supplies with acceptable prices.
Great rant. True to the end. I agree that the 22 ARC is going to take off. Growing up in the country I like your finger wave at passing traffic.
My only real issue with Hornady is that they don't seem to fully support some of the cartridges they come out with before moving on to the next big thing. The 6 ARC is a prime example. I think they get so overextended on the latest new products that they can't properly ramp up production on the previous new ones. I love new cartridges--the more, the merrier--provided there are material supplies available in sufficient quantities for handloading. I don't expect that immediately, but it's frustrating when several years pass and the manufacturer is still not able to satisfy the market. I think in some cases they've simply grown too fast and don't have the production equipment sufficient to meet demand or they miscalculate the degree to which a given new cartridge will generate interest/demand. (Edit: I just got to 17:30 in your vid where you refer to 6 ARC)
On another topic, I know you're not an AR guy, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on 300 HAM'R. New subscriber here, so you may have already spoken about it.
Awesome video! Love you brother!
Appreciate it!
Got them all plus more, love what you are saying, it's all true
I have a 22-250 and love it! What I don't like is people saying your stupid or dumb or something else to that effect. I can push a 75gr hornady bthp match bullet 3250fps from my bergara b14 hunter with the 1in9 twist barrel and that's pretty go. However when the barrel goes out I will probably rebarrel to 22 creedmoor though.
There isn't a whole lot of difference between the 22-250 and the 22 CM, if you've already got a fast-twist 22-250. A bit less case stretch, a bit longer case life, a bit more accuracy based on reamer specs with the 22 CM.
Great thoughts mate, I couldn’t agree anymore. Every rifle I have in a Hornady offering shoots great with their cost effective projectiles. This video sure makes me want to add a 22 creedmoor to my collection. Cheers.
Haha
Good spill
I kind of wished Hornady would not have come out with the 22 Creedmore just to keep it away from all those folks pls that don’t load.
But all good points
Now side not I am not a big gas gun either and everyone always asked me why.
I tell them I don’t like picking up brass
Only problem I have with Hornaday is the velocities they post on factory ammo
1st time to your page, loved it👍
I really like what Hornady is doing with their new cartridge lines, that’s why I own 3 of them. If I hadn’t of just bought a.22-250 it would be 4 rifles chambered in Hornady cartridges. The.22 Creedmoor sounds like a versatile cartridge.
Interesting to hear your thoughts on the whole "H" train.
Living in Australia... we have a massive lag on pick up and imports for cartridges.
I am really keen for the .22 CM to get some more support from factory, I wait with baited breather for the .25CM to come along 😅
The quick pull over and dispatch the prairie dog 🤣🤣🤣, I have been mid call and pulled over to knock over a rabbit. Glad to see I'm not the only one!
People don't like new / good or change or improvement and with how the sport is suffering with the stigma around it we have an aged group and a group who don't see the need for development.
The rant directed toward the .22-250 users😂 having been one... I can understand it.
Love the sound
I agree completely but i cant see it going as cheap as 223 if it did, it would not phase it out but keep up with it atleast, i love the efficiency and price of it! Something that reaches out far or hits hard for its cal is awesome and for fairly cheap compaired to others when reloading
You got my sub when you popped that critter in the field from the driver seat and cemented my viewership with your rant on the keyboard warriors!!! Keep up the great work!
ill take a road warrior before a key board warrior anytime
Has been a very interesting video Greg, I have been having early thoughts on a 20GT, so this has been good to listen too. Cheers Craig
Reamers already made
I mostly shoot competitions, NRL hunter in 6.5creedmoor, but i struggle with PRS style matches so I have a 223 PRS trainer/fun gun in the works. I think once i finish a year or so of basically dryfire+p with 223 in the "tactical division" i can swap the barrel and bolt and now have a caliber that takes the same powder, primer, and bullets as my 223 but give me actual competitive performance against the 6mm BR crowds.
Edit, so point is, that's my justification for being excited for a 22ARC bolt gun
What’s the barrel life on a 22 creedmoor?
I've never been a Hornady critic, rather, I like Hornady's products and their innovation. People love to be critical of things they know nothing about. My only critique with the new cartridges is the scarcity of brass. I'd love to play with .25 Creedmoor, .22CM and .300 PRC and maybe some others but I rarely or never see brass for them and on the rare occasion that I do, it's very very pricey. And the availability of rifles chambered in the new cartridges is just as scarce or non-existent. Maybe Hornady should take their manufacturing expertise and build a rifle plant next to their ammo plant to start making rifles to go with their new cartridges. Imagine if they applied their innovation skills to rifles...
It took around 10 years for 6.5 CM brass to show up, then I bought one, then another.
@@gregpace4676 LOL, I waited that long to make sure it wasn't just a fad cartridge before buying one. I just bought a better one 3 weeks ago to replace the first one that was a "meh" budget rifle. It was a project rifle though and I got it to shoot 1/3 MOA after putting some effort into it. But it was only a 22" barrel and I couldn't get the velocities our of it that I wanted. This one is a Browning X-Bolt with a 26" barrel so I'm sure I'll be much happier with it.
My 6 ARC is fantastic. I haven’t spent enough quality time with the 22 ARC due to ammunition scarcity to determine what it is capable of. So far, it has been sub-MOA out of my AR. I have about 50 rounds through it. The 6 ARC seems to be a tiny bit better in the wind than the 22 ARC. I am planning for a 22 Creedmoor at some point. My Hornady 62 grain Vmatch in 22 ARC has a rated velocity of 3,300 fps. I am sure it is rated for the AR platform and giving up some performance compared to a bolt gun pressure limit.
They are doing a little marketing, I think the 22 ARC would be a good fit for me because I don't have time to do very much loading right now. I can pop an upper on an ar15 and get a little more performance. If I do get time to load, it will use less powder, and cheaper bullets.
Totally agree with you I started hand loading in the late 1970s and and back then you pretty much had to if you wanted good accuracy. ( Back then Hornady only made projectiles) Now days like you say if you buy buy a rifle in a Hornady cartridge you can buy some of there ammo and chances are it will work well for you?
God bless, have a wonderful day!
Well said...... all of it!
You're so right about Hornady doing it right! A few years ago I got interested in getting a "modern" rifle. Wandered into my local Sportsmans Warehouse and they had the 6mm Creedmoor, Ruger Precision Rifle marked down to something ridiculous. They also had Hornady 6 Creed ammo on hand, as well as brass, bullets and dies... All Hornady. Easy button! For less than a grand I walked out with a whole new rifle & cartridge to mess with! All Hornady & Ruger. I already had a good Vortex high magnification scope. It's a bit heavy, but accurate and reliable.
I love my xp-100 with 80 berger is good to 500 out of a 10 "barrel
I’ve got reloading dies for the two 22 ARC barrels I have on order and I have 3 boxes of the new 22 ELD-VT 62 grain bullets . And Hornady is saying 3000 fps with 75 Grn 22 bullets and 2800 fos with 88 Grn bullets . That’s smokin out of an AR-15 ( if it actually gets there ) I’ve ordered a 16” and a 22” ARC so we’ll see . I’ve got 2 6ARC these are the ONLY 2 cartridges I’ve ever been on the bandwagon for . I’m 51 and I didn’t get a 6.5CM till 4 yrs ago . Prior to that it was 223 , 22-250 , 308 , 30-06 . I look forward to the new ARC .
I would try it
I would expect nothing less from Hornady
Try finding 17 hornet or 17 remington fireball ammo same as 17 wsm its impossible
You did this entire video and mentioned every single cartridge in the Creedmoor and PRC lines, and the 22 ARC without once mentioning the 6 ARC. But in all honesty the ELD-VT projectile they developed with the 22 ARC is going to be super interesting in a 22 Creedmoor.
I use the 6ARC in a bolt gun. Why? It is the foundation of my budget precision rifle (Savage + chassis). It is inexpensive to shoot, easy to load, and easy to shoot accurate due to the lack of recoil. The 22 ARC is a sign that they see the 6ARC as a hit.
Very good video!
Any new developments that promote our sport should be encouraged. Typically, the market will determine if an idea has merit, but there are times when good ideas are overlooked and poor ideas gain followers. If a shooter is enjoying their project, it's beneficial to all of us. While it may not seem like it, we are currently living in an age of tremendous development for the shooters. We need to promote development every way we can. I have been a long time fan of the 220 Swift, but I don't begrudge those who choose the 22-250 - okay, I do, but only in jest. The point is, no matter the reason, positive experiences ensure that our sport grows. That is a good thing.
This video was the most unabashed promotion I've ever witnessed. And coming from someone I respect due to their commitment to independent-thinking, I was quite taken aback.
But I couldn't agree more. If the available information is accurate, the 22 ARC checks all the boxes to be a huge success. The AR mag length, very appreciable velocity increase over 223, high BC/heavy for caliber bullets, relatively low cost factory ammo, and hopefully barrels and chambers that allow the cartridge to give the utmost in accuracy.
I was contemplating building an AR in 223AI, but this video has inspired me to strongly consider building a 22 ARC once barrels become available. I choose to handload for multiple reasons, and I am already eager to see what can be done with the 22 ARC and such a choice of bullets. The Berger 70 gr VLD is a fantastic bullet in the 223 Rem, and at 22 ARC velocities it should be excellent out to very log ranges. The Hornady 75 gr ELD-M is another great bullet that just can't reach it's potential out of a 223 Rem. Potentially giving MPBR approaching 350 yards from the 22ARC! And the 80 gr ELD-X should be very capable for deer-size game. The 79 grain DRT Terminal Shock bullets and other lead-free bullets will benefit from the increased velocities also. Should improve the lethality and make the AR-15 a legitimate platform for hogs. The reasons this cartridge should succeed is extensive.
Greg, if you do get into discussions with the folks at Hornady, tell them to step up their brass quality and volume. And tell them to start producing/offering their own primers! We could all use another source, they're missing a huge opportunity.
Thank you for giving your honest advice/opinion every single time. Sorry, long video, long comment.
22CM might be one to add or a 22PRC😂
Mr. Dykstra thank you for this video. I appreciate your opinion. 1st Peter 5:7 Cast all your cares upon him; for He careth for you.
Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
God commands us to take our worries and give them to him. We are to live by faith.
I still have a 6mm AR designed by Robert Whitley, Goes back for me clost to 2010. Then Hornandy came out with the 6mm Arc. Same as the AR a neck down 6.5 Grendel. So just like the creedmore family the 22 Creedmore will be a huge hit for sure going commercial with Hornandy. Greg have you ever compared the 22 creedmore to a 22-250 improved? I own an older 22-250 but its a 1:14 twist. so the bullets weights are limited. But changing to a faster twist, I was curioous your thoughts on the improved.
Yes, the 22-250 AI has slightly less capacity than the 22 creed
Do you think hornady will launch a 20 ARC?? I think that will be a great little cartridge.
So the 22CM is just an improved 22-250, So to be the complete luddite I'll stick with my .220 swift. Although I agree with better brass and a blown out body the 22CM will be a better round
100% agree
No, a 22-250AI can’t touch a 22 creed.
I wish Hornady would commonize the 25-06a2 with a fast twist barrel. Then release ammo with 125 gr and above options.
Hey, benchrest guy here. 6ppc and 22ppc don't have a 40-degree shoulder. Maybe there's some wildcats out there with a 40-degree shoulder, but the majority is 30 degrees. The only real differences are twist rate, the throat of the chamber, and 6ppc's shoulder is bumped back slightly from 6mm ARC.
What are you thoughts comparing the 22 ARC with the 22 Nosler?
Nosler ballistic tips are twice the price of Hornady SST. I love both but dude, Hornady is keeping their prices and quality very sharp.
Will the different calibers of arc and creedmoor, will they all chamber in their family or has Hornady designed the bigger ones not be able to chamber the smaller ones and be fired out of the wrong gun?
Exactly why the hate ? Choices are a beautiful thing. You have a choice to use it or not. Just sort thru the BS. I just bought 17 WSM from SGAMMO 25 gr. Thinking I should have doubled my order. But I didn't want to screw the next fellow in need. I will give it a few weeks & if they have I will order more. Just be aware shipping has seemed to take longer than usual. I usually get it in 3 days. This time is close to two weeks.
There are several cartridges that I wish I would have bought in the past and now they seem obsolete
RCMs and 30TC are a few
22 GT needs more love and SAAMI spec. Longer barrel life than the 22 Creed, and not much slower. It's also more forgiving when reloading and better suited for shorter barrels.
Not really. 😂
Totally agree about a 22GT. Actually yeah
Been looking into 22GT myself lately but I’m looking for a modern case 22-250 thinking 18” barrel 1:8 twist shooting 50gr to 75gr
@@Neb245My 20" 1:8 22 GT is running 75gr ELD-M's at ~3200 and 88gr ELD-M's at ~3000.
@@primalrights Oh, I guess ~10gr less powder for ~100fps slower velocity doesn’t equate to much.
22 Creedmoor, Sierra 95gr mk around 2900fps (start load)... out to 1500yds with ease... and long barrel life. As you say, comparative ballistics vs the bigger boomers is fantastic. For the 223Rem, I run the newer MDT steel mags so can seat bullet longer vs an AR mag. With the 75gr ELDM and long OAL, velocities will be right on the heels of a 22ARC... and 223Rem brass is plentiful and often times..... Free. I like the 223 Rem for bulk shooting.
I need a lathe and mill in my garage so I can play😊
Are you looking forward to Hornady's VT bullet lineup?
Loved the Christian comments. God bless you as well.
Where are u at, man? u could put a target so far away. u would have to have a telescope to see it. I live in the mountains. It's hard to find a place to shoot long-range here
Love the Hornady guys. Smart AF. Great salesman.
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Rely on the bullet sometimes!!!
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Rely on over bore tons of powder sometimes??
Wait until it's all about primer turners 😅
I've been waiting for 6mm Arc brass for 3 years now.
Starline makes it now. Plenty out there right now.
I LOVE the 17hmr
44:54 the new bullets are the key as far as I’m concerned. Those new bullets absolutely change the 556… not 223. 223 suck’s get a round count on both before you even argue. But these are the bullets that are going to take it closer to the 22250. That’s what they were talking to the 95% about and I see something different
As long as people keep falling for the newest, greatest best thing, they are going to keep on making more stuff so that you will keep buying.
The 22 arc isn't a replacement for the 22 creedmoor.
It's a design for higher bc bullets in long range style of AR. It also is a good cartridge for ultra low recoiling PRS style rigs.
It has way better barrel life than the creedmoor also.
I can't wait to get my 22bra from SCR
49:43 this is so important.
Are u saying that the 22 Creedmore is a better setup than a 22-250 and 220 swift.
Depends on what you are after. If you want to shoot light varmint bullets in the high 3000's, the 22-250 or Swift is great. If you want to shoot heavier bullets at longer ranges with top accuracy, the 22 CM is turnkey.
Not a clickbait title. He's mocking the old man yelling at cloud demographic.
I don’t think they ever said it has sunrise velocity of 22-250. They said similar performance.
And now Lapua get 6gt brass. 22gt?
Yes... Hornady is stupid. With that being said I really like the 22 Creedmoor. By far the best version of a Creedmoor.
I don’t knock Hornady’s new cartridges ever, they are putting new efficient innovations into effect. Greg, don’t knock me on the 22creed, its a great cartridge but, its not for me, the amount of powder it uses to get those velocities are inherently inefficient. I would love the 22gt to become saami approved, it uses less powder and get similar velocities as the 22 creed, its a more efficient round, that will be my next bolt gun caliber after I sell the Valkyrie lol!
Thanks for your videos and knowledge.
Hornady claims the.22 ARC will have .22-250 performance from an AR-15, not strictly just velocity... They said a 62 grain bullet will reach 3,300 fps. Being the bullet will have the long sleek modern bullet design they claim that past 300 yards the .22 ARC will overtake the .22-250's ballistically... Guess we will see. I'm excited to see the results really.
best clickbait title ever, but did not leave disappointed. you gained a new sub here :) looking forward to more content in the future
Pretty sure the PRS gas gun champion in 2023 was running a 22 ARC. I love seeing new cartridges push the industry to try new things.
The 22 Ark should have been named the 22 Grendal. Hornady version of the 22 Ark is a 65 Grendel necked down. The 6 ark has the shoulders bumped back 30000 from the Grendel. So guys that wildcated the 22 Ark will not be able to use the factory ammo coming out for the 22 Ark.
We need new ideas all the time
The new 62 gr 22arc bullet awesome. The 22 arc not bad maybe a little niche but good. Hornadys marketing team not so good. Really could have worded it better
I Could See it Coming Down The Pipe..... 17 Creedmoor. Lolololll. LOOK OUT .
Facts upon facts i have everything hornady has brought out
I want Hornady to make your 6 mm prc 😅
I’d be fine talking with them about all of our Primal cartridges. 😉
Pause- “POW” resume. 😂😂
All those trolls have their own ammunition factory and million dollar test facility, also the associated test equipment to validate their opinions. 🤯👈
I say this having at least two cartridges designed by Hornady and dies for nearly every cartridge I own... One I like, the other I got as a cheaper weaker option to protect my preferred hunting rifle...
The issue with Hornady (at least for me) is they'll repackage something more or less already available without all that much improvement (if any at all) and then it becomes a propaganda crusade. ESPECIALLY when there are better options available it's particularly frustrating. And on the occasion I make the mistake of watching some of their interviews I can't help but turn them off irritated. And lastly, their reloading manuals are laughably biased to favor their cartridges (a behavior I see far less prevalent with some of their competitors such as Nosler as an example).
In their defense on the other hand, they churn out bullets in good volume for reloading (I am not crazy about their hunting options though). Their brass is a little soft but at least reasonably consistent. They have a few tools that the only good alternatives cost a kidney. Heck, for that matter... Save for a few insanely priced items, most of their equipment is fairly reasonably priced to even cheap possibly (and doesn't get the hate Lee does) while being moderately well constructed to match.
I'd also note I'm not crazy about their propaganda.
Wait wait wait wait
They never said it can get 22x250 velocities... they said you get 22x250 performance... which is actually tru when you look at 35 grain going 4k but out of gas by 300
The 22 arc retains its velocities so even tho it starts out slower the heavier higher BC bullet is still traveling lightning fast at 300 because of retained velocities
Now i agree they stretch there marketing just weeeeee bit however when you dig deep in the science of it they are 100% right and if the 22 arc does not have the same failure the 224 valk had i bet itll be pretty popular for the AR15 community
Hornady is out to be number one in ammo. They most likely are currently. The bullets that they came up with in the PRC's had a demand and was worth the investment and they had the ability to sell them. It makes zero sense for a major bullet company just to come up with a bullet similar to many wildcats that has not got enough market to sustain. We have a newer cartridge today that seems to be dying a slow death the 300 WSM. If companies just did that all the time, they would go broke. Hornady does a good job business wise in what they have done to become number one. I am not an all-in Hornady fan, but they have cost efficient bullets, and the availability of their bullets surpasses everyone else. I prefer Sierra bullets, but they often can't keep up with availability. Look at the 7mm STW. I had a rifle re-barreled in it when it was a wildcat. The next year it was chambered in rifles that sold for less than I paid for a re-barrel. However now it is a factory load, where is the ammo availability? It's rare to find on the shelves of gun stores and it isn't even chambered anymore unless special ordered. Rest my case on crazy for company's just making new chamberings just to make them. I have no problem with new cartridges. I have bought many and they seem to still be alive today. It is best to not invest too much in a new thing until enough guns are out there you know the availability of the ammo will still be there. Unless of course you make your own and have no problem with that. I was there myself on my 7mm STW years ago. There is some fun in wildcats.
Hornady is not even close to #1 in ammo. Federal, Remington, Wichester are WAY bigger than Hornady. Fed and Win probably make more 9mm alone than Hornady makes total including all their offerings. Now if you want to talk about component bullets. yeah they make inexpensive cup and core tipped bullets. They are really good at marketing compared to other bullet manufacturers. Hornady has just come to be a ammunition manufacturer that other companies pay attention to vs. a component company as they were thought of in the past. However, look at awards they won at shows like the NRA show. They won an award for a gun safe...nothing to do with ammo. And at that it is a modular safe which have been on the market for years.
4:20 Remington, on the other hand, seems to screw up everything the bring to market.
Could we have a 5 or 10 minute video on your opinion on 224 valk and 22 nosler?