Could Hitler have been stopped? | Dan Carlin and Lex Fridman
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- čas přidán 3. 11. 2020
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Dan Carlin: Hardcore H...
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Hello Lex, I would just like to take a second of my day to thank you. You have done a fantastic job in the last few months! I admire your tenacity and curiosity.
Many thumbs up
Temerity
First question took 2:50! Shorter questions less context and qualification needed! Keep it up though Lex
Tenacity?
Yes Dan Carlin is justifiably brilliant
Individual hatred is bad. Collective hatred is genocidal
Individual ( free ) hatred is GOOD .... - Collective GroupThink 'hatred' - The Left in present America - can easily be turned to be genocidal ... sadly !
I hate bad drivers. Collectively. I hate them. Yet there is no danger of my hatred turning into fascism or genocide; there are more ingredients required than just hatred.
The current vogue of identifying so many things as hateful and of such hate being the primary problem has reduced our ability to actually think critically about social problems and resolutions. If the problem is as simple as hate... well simply condemn hate and all those people you can identify as hateful -- it's such a ridiculously simplistic and naive formulation. We've really entered into a twilight zone where it's almost impossible to have productive conversations.
Even in this video, the guest talks about how there are underlying forces that pushed the German people into hateful attitudes that allowed them to be manipulated by evil leaders. We understand that the German people were punished too much for world war I, and that it was a major factor in the causal chain that lead to horrible outcomes. Yet today, we refuse to consider that there are any underlying conditions that lead to people being hateful. That's not to relieve hateful people of responsibility from their actions, but if what we want to do is create a better world, removing the conditions that we know produce hateful people might just be worthwhile.
I'm not pretending I have it all figured out, but it seems obvious to me, that the dominant terminology and narrative of our society around suppressing and censoring hate speech as somehow dealing with the real problem, is at best ineffectual, and much more likely counterproductive.
Hatred is the incorrect word, the word you're looking for is Disgust.
@@Edward-fg5ht or threat or to be used to gain power
Sure but what was the context for Hitler rise was it all unjustified? Does a attack like 911 give permission to push imperialism?
Lex's podcast is like getting a banger JRE every time. Instead of it being hit or miss. Keep it up man like your show a lot.
Yeah and less cursing and no stupid monkey sound.
His questions are so good and is ist scared to ask the real questions.
@@stephaniec5215 that's the best part of jre
@@stephaniec5215 hey now, the monkey sounds are one of the greatest features of jre. To be clear I mean all the animal stories and his great and funny animal impressions.
As a german I have to say this is the first time I have seen a non german portray the rise of Hitler correctly.
What does as a German mean? the are millions of socialist and left winger Germans from the 30s and 40s who will disagree on this take on Hitler, being German doesn't give you the right to speak for millions of people who went through this brutal regime.
@@gshoots5820Fascinating, will you offer some sources that support your numbers? I find it extremely hard to believe that "the(re) are millions of socialist and left winger Germans from the 30s and 40s who will disagree". I find it hard to believe that there are millions of Germans that were old enough to take a "socialist and left wingers" stance in the 30s and 40s that "will disagree" in 2021. Like Lex said, "Mathematically speaking", I find it hard to believe that there are millions of socialist and left winger Germans from the 30s and 40s that are still alive to even be able to disagree if they wanted to. If you could offer some sources to support your claim, not only will I become better educated but possibly that much closer to the fountain of youth. Thank you
@@gshoots5820 Good for you G Shoots!!! That German doesn't have the right to speak for millions!!! I am sure glad that you are able to though! Let others who can speak for others, speak for others. Everyone else should stick to speaking for themselves. "What does as a German mean?" It means that they are a citizen of Germany. Anyway, I am glad you have the right to speak for millions and at the same time, able to attack and accuse someone else of trying to speak for millions just because they stated where they were a citizen of.
Dan Carlin is the man! All of his history podcasts are amazing
@@gshoots5820 I don’t believe he was trying to speak for all Germans but rather giving his comment a bit of context. Undoubtedly with the national focus on cleaning the collective conscious of Germany would have given him a better background to declare that than say my background as an average American from the southeast.
I saw a great quote the other day:
"People misunderstand totalitarianism because they imagine that it must be a cruel, top-down phenomenon; they imagine thugs with guns and torture camps... They do not imagine a
society in which many people share the vision of the tyrants and actively work to promote their ideology".
Like the Covid Tyrants!
Brainwashed and willing to imprison others!
How's working for the CCP going?
@@Wyatt1314. You know the difference between the CCP and Trumpism? Nothing.
@@Wyatt1314. What an ignorant question!
@Wyatt1314 China lifted 800 million people out of Poverty while adhering to Marxist-Engel political theory. China has a mixed economy of 40% state enterprises & 60% private enterprises. With the most critical and strategic monopolistic sectors controlled by state enterprises.
Socialism doesn't mean 100% planned economies with no private enterprises, and market economy has existed as a component of non-capitalist economies for millenia. You should avoid simplistic and innacurate labels you don't understand. The "Geopolitical Economy Report" with Socialist economists Radhika Desai & Michael Hudson explain this quite well.
Really glad he mentioned German Jehovah's witnesses conscientiously objecting. Very few people know this. All Jehovah's witnesses objected globally to the war, it takes a lot of courage to stand up to your country and say 'I will not kill my brothers.'
Jehova is abrahamic lol
Amen my brother. They even had their own symbol, the purple triangle, in the concentration camps.
To bad their ridiculous beliefdcause harm in the present day
@@MegaLaban12345 Their belief that God's name is Jehovah? (It is)
Polish leader marshal Piłsudski before his death in 1935 asked France for a joint (together with Poland) intervetion against Hitler’s Germany. France declined.
True, the Polish military proposed a pre-emptive strike, then Poland signed a non-agression treaty with Germany when the unfeasiblity of the operation became evident.
I really respect that Carlin is willing to admit that he wouldn't be able to stand up against a regime given the risks and consequences... Because I believe most people wouldn't be able to do it either (including myself), which is precisely why these regimes can exist. They are willing to be way more evil than people can cope with.
I've thought about this myself. Before having children, I was convinced I'd have stood against it if I was a German back then. After having children, I completely understand why they where silent.
Cowardice spawns cowardice, 99% of people would be doing as they’re told, even if 50% of people stood up they’d have had a chance to resist.
I think people have to realize that hindsight is 20/20 in these situations as well. When you're in those shoes at the time you see your life on the line, do as you're told or die. You don't see it like you would have 20 years after the war. Given the abuse of misinformation and propaganda at the time a lot of Germans thought they were doing what was best for their country and that they were winning the war up until it was far too late to do anything to stop it. A lot more people didn't do more to stop it because many of them didn't realize what trajectory they were on. Like Carlin is saying in this clip, the rise of Hitler was more of an effect of the times, if it wasn't Hitler it would've been another extreme politician. Maybe it would have gone differently, maybe not. Either way, the excessive Allied retribution against Germany and the massive levels of grief, guilt and resentment over the war are what put the Nazis in power much more than any fault with the German people or any genius of Adolf Hitler.
Most people are not brave and it was extremely rare the person who stood up against regimes like the Nazis.
@@bruhdon4748 it’s not cowardice. Hindsight is so easy to say shit like that
Carlin is amazingly intellectually honest. I love it.
When the Germans invaded Poland and the Western Allies declared war on Germany (finally) in 1939, French troops just sat on their asses on the Western front when the majority of the German army was busy in Poland. When a border unit was asked by a journalist why they were not firing on the Germans (whom they could see from their position), the French commander stated: 'Why? They're not firing at us.' Until the end, the British and French did not want another war on their hands.
Which is why I fucking hate the notion that Appeasement was for UK and Fr to “prepare for war”.
At this rate, the USSR was Better Prepared for war than those two clowns (yes. even with Stalin disbelieving initial reports).
The sitzkreig or the phoney war.
I talked with my German grandparents about this and this is the theory I have come up with over time: the country was in it's most turbulent time with high unemployment, a fragile goverment and the aftermath of hyperinflation. Most people were looking for something new that either promised prosperity, order or both. The Nazis were willing to provide this, as were the communists. So while you might have been able to stop Hitler you probably would have ended up with some other autoritative regime instead, most likely a communist one. The people were simply too desperate and willing to go with it.
Scary how much those same ingredients sound like what’s going on in the USA right now. Turbulent times, inflation, a fragile government, perhaps only unemployment is the one thing that doesn’t align. Not a comforting situation tho.
@@ShadyRonin yea a little sprinkle but no where close to where the germans were at that time. The US is still a superpower while the germans were crushed after wwi
The people were lied to. It's pretty god darn simple.
@@fredbologn2344 yes it is that the people were lied to is pretty goddamn simple. Or is this not the truth?
THE PEOPLE WERE LIED TO. THAT IS ALL. The people were lied to.
@@fredbologn2344 lol what is the difference between Brian washing and Leading.
Hm.
The depth and clarity you asked a 2min question is amazing. It was a question and views of today versus then. But you knew that when you asked but still asked in a way that let your guest answer in detail and assert a valuble argument. I just fucking love it.
Alright Brendan Wing cool those jets
😂😂@@patrickdoherty8894
1st world countries in crisis almost always go authoritarian right while 3rd world countries tend to go authoritarian left. A message of Love almost never works when a 1st world country is in crisis. Nationalism, strength and positive economic promise does.
@@nickslade7635 and they say they're the intellectuals 😂 because student loan debt equates to higher IQ I guess?
i want these two to have a weekly podcast together. cover anything.... and im there.
My grandfather (WWII vet and now 98) had a girlfriend for years after my grandmother died. His girlfriend, Erica, was born and raised in Nazi Germany. Great woman. She just passed away a few years ago. One time I asked her what it was like growing up and why people didn’t push back against the Nazis and she said something along the lines of people knew what was happening was very wrong but they were deathly afraid to speak out because of what would happen to them. You either shut your mouth and went along with what was happening or you spoke up and risked your and your families lives. I wish I remember more of what she said but this was at least 15 years ago when I was a kid and I didn’t realize just how crazy it was that I was talking to someone who grew up under Hitler.
Funny how you just posted this My grandma and grandpa grew up in Germany
@@BasicBeachCommunity1 super walking tours .... were you grandparents around during the Nazi era ?
If so by any chance are they still alive ?
And have you ever asked them what it was like living in Germany back then ?
During the Battle of the Bulge, a young private heard over the radio that the Germans were gaining ground and the allies might lose the war. He looked up and said, "Sergeant, they are saying we might lose the war. What are we going to do?" The sergeant replied, "Fire your weapon, son."
When you are gathered to your ancestors, they are not going to ask you who won the war. They are going to ask you if you did your duty.
Love the Clips Lex, I enjoy this type of content, great guests. Very interesting.
Just offer him a career in painting. He would have spent his days painting average works. HOW AAESOME WOULD THAT NOT HAVE BEEN? TREMENDOUS, man. TREMENDOUS!
Lukas , yes I have often wondered how different the history of the world would have been if only Hitler could have made it as an artist and if somebody a gallery would have given him a break .
If he had been able to make a living as an artist and not go hungry I think he would have let go of a lot of his hatred .
@@gardensofthegods If you look at the conditions in Germany after WW1...if it wasn't Hitler it would have been someone else...Germany as a collective was very angry..
Really enjoyed these in-depth discussions with Dan Carlin as well as Yuval Hirari. They are really enlightening and fascinating, much more so than those empty speculations about aliens and outer-space imo.
I really look up to you Lex.
Thanks for giving me hope and optimism for the future.
Pie in the sky.
Crazy this guy has time to be a historian while drumming in Rush
Rush Limbaugh or Rush, the Canadian ProRock band?
Holy heavens! I was also impressed by the White Rose story, when I visited a museum in Munich. And I’m also scared of being in the same situation as those students, and having to decide between being a coward and standing up and fighting the dictatorship.
Its whats going on in America now
God bless Sophie and her brother
@@KortovElphame All over the world right now
its not hard if you make the right choice
look up what happend to the 100+ college students the just disappeared in México. similar they were trying to protest the rise of local cartels= drug lords. In 5 years nobody knows what happened to all of them.
I don't think the right question is "Could Hitler have been stopped"
I think the right question is "Could Germany have avoided that whole situation?"
Germany was headed in that direction regardless of it being Hitler who ultimately rose to power.
Good point. German Communist Party could've gained power in the 30s and WW2 would've been completely different. Weimar Germany was full of radicals in those days. Nazis and Communist use to fight in the streets in those days.
This guy reminds me of the lad next door in American beauty. Everything about him. His appearance, the backdrop, and the topic.
His name is Lex.
When I read this headline, my first thought was, "Did I enter the alternate Universe from the 90s TV show Sliders with Jerry O'Connell where the Nazis won World War II?"
History is written by the winners.
Fridman's point on a contest of ideas, one espousing love and economics shows a very typical simplification of the views towards people and politics and power. I don't think Dan Carlin completely covers the point even, because to the Germans, at that point of time in that fervour, Hitler represented love (of nation) and economics - the german economy was doing terrific, and its standing was rising rapidly. Germans felt good at that time, which is why it was so hard to see the flaws.
Really like Dan Carlin. Thank you Lex for introducing him to us
Dear lord, this is your introduction to him? Go to his site, buy his back catalog, it's all gold.
@@nortonwedge you’re so right
Dan Carlin is to history , what bill nye is to science. Dan Carlin is compelling, yet fugazi.
@@jabbadabba1978bill nye is to science 😅 i get it but an awful example
Dan Carlin is one of my traditional favorite podcast of the century
I’d say that if Hitler would’ve been stopped then somebody would have done a similar act of horror.
They were machines.
I invented a sound gun. And I was standing in 1 place the whole time on a hill top with headphones. The tanks couldn't even reach us. When they got out of the tank we took them to the hilltop. And placed a magnet on them (the opponents were robots). The other time I gave alcohol to the opponents. Everyone was drunk. We drove in a german car to the person operating on the other side. It was a woman. We placed a camera and a microphone in her room and left a note. 'Your dick is big'. Next day she woke up and we started sending him messages. It is possible that every woman is 1 person. And she probably operates time as well. So there were many Hitler doubles. etc. They were real. There weren't place for 10000 tanks and so many submarines. Even now we don't have so many submarines...
Goggins does not run just for the pain. Its all about achieving a mental state its all about pushing yourself and not letting yourself quit.
Lex is such a good interviewer. The way he takes a simple question and branches it off into a much deeper subject is amazing
Such a good speech & the ending, bravo.
Love this dudes podcast.
In an alternate universe where Hitler won: “How could we have stopped Roosevelt/Churchill/Stalin”
Lex needs to read up on the term called 'geopolitics'.
My only possible idea is that if the Allies had made the Treaty of Versailles fair, and had shown empathy and compassion towards Germany THEN, and not waiting until after the damage had been done, than maybe the resentment would not have been strong enough to justify the Nazis in the eyes of the Germans.
Who was it who said that Versailles was just a 20 year armistice?
I actually disagree. I think the problem was that it was too lenient. WW2 had a much harsher treaty, and we never got a WW3.
The treaty of Versailles was far to light. It allowed Germany to remain a superpower while kicking out the stable government which allowed for the rise of the radical national socialist.
Or if they rescinded the terms ON THEIR OWN ACCORD instead of bowing to German aggressions.
e.g. In the Treaty Of Year Xin-Chou of 1901 in the aftermath of the Boxer Rebellion and the war of Eight Powers on China, there was a stupidly harsh war indemnity that Qing-China had to pay to eleven nations.
The USA later gave their “share” back to fund Chinese students, and many Chinese people will either begrudgingly or positively consider this as a good favour.
Because the USA did it on their own.
@@PageIsYourGodMarshall Foch.
Lex is an amazing podcaster.
Lex you should run the audio of your pods through GPT3 and as ask it to draw images based on the words.
As a right-leaning libertarian i support whoever is truly in favor of individual rights with minimal government involvement. I want to live in a world of maximized individual freedom & opportunity
The 5 finger exploding heart technique.
Works every time.
How does lex get all these interviews? I’d never heard of him before youtube. Was he doing anything before he got on youtube?
He was/is an MIT professor who was involved in AI. I believe that he had a lecture or two on CZcams that got popular. He started a podcast where he interviewed others interested in the same topics. That put him in touch with some famous people in AI (like Elon Musk, for example.) He spread out and stated interviewing other people on other topics. I believe that later, his connection with Eric Weinstein lead him to Joe Rogan. That gave him huge exposure.
One answer really ontop of Lex being a good guy and obviously a hard worker
His Joe Rogan experience appearances and likely friendship with Joe played a huge part in his growth and getting ppl like carlin etc
Joe has been a huge fan of Dan Carlin for years
How come it's never mentioned he was Austrian. A German fanatic. Do you think that changes the phycology of his actions.
One thing a lot of people don't realize is Hitler hated himself. One of the reasons he went after the Jews the way that he did was because he was the illegitimate son of a Jewish man who worked for the government. Hitler's father was a brutal man and that's why Hitler invaded Austria or occupied Austria to seize the government records to hide that he was half Jew. Kind of hard to get everybody to kill the Jew if the leaders Jewish.
@@brt-jn7kgActually, that’s considered a shaky idea. It’s actually, most likely, because he was the product of intense incest. His grandmother (father’s mother) was married to her grandfather, who was Hitler’s father’s father/grandfather.
It's always mentioned he was born in the Habsburg Empire and how that shaped his worldview.
@@brt-jn7kgnope.
My great uncle was sent to the concentration camp because his wife ran to the procession to help an old jewish man who fell in the street (and gave him some bread) on the way to the camp....This time in the US worries me.
Hahah dude is anyone supposed to really believe that fairytale?
@@Jalil8171 you seem like someone who struggled in hs
People in 50 years will be asking the same about schwab, we did nothing.
If you contemplate the name Siegfried or the ideal of the Siegfrieden (peace by victory) and you look at the Siegessäule (victory column) you kind of get how idealized war was during that time. That being said we Europeans have a tradition of hitting each other over the head and 2nd World War was just kind of the last big one. I mean Roman Empire, Thirty years war, Napoleon. If you look at history it's like remarkable that we more or less manage to be at peace with each other.
Goggins..love that guy!!
I don't believe that the bravery Dan mentioned exists anymore.
Not enough anyways. Too many comforts and indulgence.
Even with how well documented it was, we are drifting down that stream, and we are speeding up.
Maybe you'll be the hero of the comment section
Could? He was in 1945.
Yes. I think they missed that. The real question is whether Stalin and Mao could have been stopped.
Hey Lex, 3 minute questions seem a bit intense lol
Intense, yes... and precise and themselves full of interesting information. I wouldn’t change a thing
@@animalfrendo he’s intellectual and articulate enough to be more concise
This is one of the best explanations on Hitler I've heard
Lex’s mindset on love and evil feel child-like. Eric Weinstein called him out on this in their round 3.
I agree it's not so black and white. How do you change systems that are "evil" without being labeled as "evil" by other people. People benefit from others suffering like in the USA where temp workers barely have enough to eat just so our packages can be shipped in a couple days. Or our iPhones which have rare earth minerals that are hardly mined by people that aren't suffering tremendously. Is that evil?
@@6jarjar6 it’s highly subjective and doesn’t take into account simple game theory. He’s smart enough to know this and should instead ask questions that can actually yield a substantive answer.
@@6jarjar6 Yes, that's evil. Materialism is evil.
@@augustgreig9420 the Germans invented Romanticism which rejected reality as it was. They were antimaterialists.
Too approach every subject as a child *is* genius. Such a respite from all of the arrogant omniscient blowhards.
my wife's grandfather refused to fly the Nazi flag and generally hated the Nazis. My father in law was Nazi youth so he had a lot of friction with his father's point of view.
Bless your father in law. He stood for truth and justice.
@@RhinoAgYou mean bless his wife's grandfather?
Read The Gulag Archipelago. It's much similar to what we're seeing today vs Nazi Germany. It was also more destructive.
Brilliant discussion.
Art Schools are now ACCEPTING all applicants. Lol 😂
The level of naivete in this question is striking. Firstly, the only reason the name "Hitler" has a negative connotation to it at all is because Germany lost the war and history is written by the victors. But put that aside for a moment and assume you grew up in 1930s Germany and *assuming you dont have a crystal ball to know how the future was going to unfold* you would not have had a reason to "stop Hitler", nor would you have wanted to, nor would you have been capable of stopping him. You would likely be very much consumed with the toil of getting from one day to the next in a nation beset by massive cultural, economic, and political strife.
Now, if at all possible, at least be true to yourself in answering this question. In the middle of the mind-numbing chaos and uncertainty, the first law is cast that favors you over another group of people - is your first instinct going to be to risk the life of your spouse or your children on a seemingly impossible task of bettering the lives of another group of people you don't know?
If you say "yes", you are lying to yourself. I know this because these moral choices are everywhere around us even today. But you are not helping starving children in Syria or Yemen or Venezuela. You're in the comfort of your home watching CZcams. Right?
Another question is could Hitler have been convinced to not do the Holocaust. There are tons of evil angry empires, some at the same time of the Nazis. But this systemic killing in mass is something sort of unique.
The question ist not who we can stop in the past. Lex who can we stop in the future, that’s what’s very interesting. I would never ever believed that it could happen again, but at the moment I am not that sure. And I can assure you, that Hitler got so much money on his rise and if you look at what happens in the us, you get scared. Because people with and without money are supporting demagogue’s. Pair this with your show about the „free will“ and yes. Scary. I need to make a point although. It’s so good to see you here and helping humanity. Thank you for this work.
The stock market crash is what prevented the already improving economy in Germany from getting even better I.e., people were gradually losing interest in the Nazis.
"Your country ain't your blood" - Sonny Corleone
I loved the Godfather, I watched it many times.
Listen to this in 1.5x speed
Thank you
I’m not sure I agree with this answer. These people were obviously brave and certainly righteous, but why would you spend the currency of your life and your families in an ultimately futile gesture. Wouldn’t the true heroes choice be to effect real change. If one of the plots against hitler had been successful history turns. If I am executed for making a brave statement, nothing changes. While certainly more romantic I don’t think it is the course I would want to choose if I was in that situation.
Hitler was fighting communism and the big banks. #TheMoreYouKnow
First option takes less effort. Trust me.
5:30 - This is actually how the type of bravery he's talking about goes down. Vast majority of people don't even acknowledge the scope of what some invisible suffering group of people are going through. And no shit. If I'm going to live a decent life how in the fuck am I supposed to spend untold amounts of time uncovering stuff like this just to what? Be in awe? Fuck that. I've (we've) got lives to live. People to care for. Unless it went down in history. Because when he mentions at 5:30 is now very widely known. To find THAT TYPE of bravery you need to go to China and look and under stand the suffering and persecution of the Uighur peoples.
Good luck have fun doing so. I tend to feed my white wolf more than my black one.
@@CRAIGC55 Blood then, is not blood now. As it may come from the same source. The beauty of blood, is it's volatility. It may change drastically from one century to the next. Given each virus it comes into contact with, each pathogen it battles, each state of decay it contends with. The blood is all of us. By a certain segregation, one can only consider a type of cancer, or temporary sickness. The blood continues as the individual perishes. Cancer is only a horror to the individual. It is the will of the spirit of the people that Hitler put his pistol to his head and shoved his finger into that trigger that plunged that bullet into his brain.
Hitler was fighting communism and the big banks. The truth is scary sometimes.
@@jerickodoggo9595 significant research now has proven he may not have actually committed suicide . An independent team of researchers concluded , along with the eyewitness accounts of hundreds of people , that there is a significant probability that he made it out .
Dan is right about the feelings at that moment of history The facts of what was going on and what happened You had to have been there to understand how it happened and why Dan is very close to the truth
Nothing done could've been done differently.
Top notch discussion.
This is not a great question. The question is have we leaned from the past? The answer is no, we haven’t. Many genocides concurred during the rest of the 20th century and many oppressive regimes still exist today. If you want to talk about something that takes courage, ask why the the Palestinians deserve the living conditions they are in. I am Jewish myself and I do wonder these things.
@@viadharmawheel Most younger Jews are over it, then again, most younger Jews don’t believe in the “chosen people” stuff either. We are more logical about things and can call an apple an apple when we see it. Don’t judge Jews by what you see Eric Weinstein, Bret Weinstein and Lex Fridman say about Israel, Hitler, their views are just one of many. No reason to paint with broad brush strokes here. I called out Lex Fridman on this largely irrelevant and pointless question.
@@SM-os6wq does the answer then lie with young people? Older people seem more likely to be jaded or invested in fighting for the status quo, since it ensures a status preservation, tho anyone of any age group can take said position.
Dan, better watch yourself at 3:45 because that playbook (which I read in the Book "Hitler: A Study in Tyranny") as you describe it is exactly what the game plan is in American Politics.
Was my thought exactly! The similarities are striking!
I think it’s possible that he could have been stopped a bit later on by members of his own government. In the beginning it all looked like it was going to be good for Germany but right around the time of the final solution I believe there should’ve been and would’ve been opportunities to stop him from within at the highest levels of the German military and indeed they were attempts to try but I think they could’ve been successful potentially
The issue is that it was the mentality of the people and not the leader. If Hitler was assassinated or jailed then either another Nazi like Himmler, Goebbels or Goring would have gotten the helm or there would have been a military coup d'etat that could've easily caused more discord. The issue was that 1930's and 40's Germans WANTED hypernationalism, it took pounding their country into rubble to break that spell. It's the same thing when the United States thinks it's going to stop fanatical Islamic zealots by killing their leaders, instead we just martyr them and open the door for the new guy to show up. They still have the same mentality and they're still willing to keep fighting. It doesn't change until you can get these people to change their minds. The question is how do you do that without massive destruction and oppression?
Elon Musk + Joe Rogan combined to create a podcast host = Lex Fridman
Why? Because it takes him 4 minutes to complete a sentence? Inserting a bunch of dramatic pauses when speaking doesnt automatically make someone more intelligent.
@@DBlane-ir8mf Yes, we know you would.
@@jamesp9226 yes
@@jamesp9226 No it doesn't. But going to MIT does.
@@gordonshumway6128 George W Bush went to Harvard. So...
Anyone in the world get internet for free? I never understand why someone calls footage on the internet free. It isn't. Everyone has to pay to use the internet and you have to put up with advertisements along with anything you want ti watch it listen to.
It’s not that far fetched. There are people in the alt right and people on the far left in 2023 that would gladly put you in a concentration camp if it furthered their interests.
It almost mirrors what is going on with Russian and Ukraine.
We are clearly in some very early stages of something. Fingers crossed that for once life doesn't repeat itself and we as humans have grown in the last 100 years.
Ordinary Men is on my bookshelf. Thx to JBP. Fear stops me. Do I really want to know this? JBP - what would future you say.
What if's are in interesting thought experiment, but Tom Brady's doc episode 'Maybe' and the Chinese proverb makes me think a good action from our view of history could absolutely make things worse just as easily as vice versa. Carlin points to another madman walking through an open door, but say the French acted like he said and repel Hitler at that moment and he manages to hang on as chancellor. Then you have a sulking Hitler who didn't start a war but instead started investing all the nation's resources in a weapon that would bring the entire world to heel. Could you imagine the reaction if by 1943 or 1944 that the surprise wasn't 'blitzkrieg' but rather The Bomb - that would probably have been powered by German rockets by then? Could you imagine an atomic weapon leveling a major city between Paris and the Rhineland to make a statement of power? It probably would've been Reims because it is where French kings were crowned for 1,000 years. That is pretty damn scary - a madman with a warehouse full of Hiroshimas and ready to use them. Anyways...I love the though Lex's consideration of whether he would speak out against a world headed down a slippery slope. We need more people asking themselves that question and taking a look around and looking at history and thinking out loud and rejecting ideologies that impose their will on others and are not open to spirited but civil debate....or giving or taking an ass kicking mano a mano.
Holy shit
There’s a difference between bravery and brave foolishness. Working openly to subvert a government while knowing certain death for themselves and their family was the consequence is foolish. Working covertly to achieve the same goal is more reliable long term. The effort is more valuable if you stay alive rather than dead.
Yup. Gotta be pragmatic.
You should do King Leopold ll
Heiddegger would have walked through it and modeled the German empire off of Japan. Think Jews would have still been labeled outsiders, but in Heidegger's thought, I believe, they could become German. (Japan has a history of accepting foreigners that prove themselves as Japanese)
Easily but that must have happened in 1930 or at least 1931. There are quite dynamic data of Hitler's treatment in Pasewalk military hospital in Oct-Nov 1918. Unlike Hitler told he was moved to that far away military hospital which was only for mental cases, not gas blind soldiers. Hitler in fact got "shell shock" even when he wasn't really front line combat soldier at all (he was regimental dispatch runner, as German combat soldiers mocked him as "Etappenschweinen", "rear area pig"). Weimar media pundits didn't do their job well and the price was terrible.
Carlin should have a talk with Tyson. I bet they'd come up with interesting topics.
Michael Tyson?
@@thealienpredatorfly yes mike tyson actually is studied in the practice of war and people who dominated other people. It would be a great interview
I have to fast forward to get to the answer. Such long questions.
Lex if you really want to take your podcast to the next level you should consider playing lo-fi hip-hop beats in the background. I'm half kidding, but mostly serious 😂
More approachable for the kids ya know, lol
The way he described being anti patriotic and saying that you don't believe in your government is what many Americans did to stop Trumps second election.
Dear Sirs,
14:40
While I also agree that Military Interventions are not to be taken lightly, to have Germany remilitarize the Rhineland without France’s permission, when the whole Demilitarization Zone is France’s idea to begin with (as a BUFFER ZONE), it should have been seen as an act of war (at least by Treaty Of Versailles standards), and France should have responded accordingly, at least in the “Send Our Boys In” way if not in the “With Guns Blazing” way.
It was very rare the person who actually spoke up, most people looked the other way I mean you don't disappear a substantial portion of your populace without rumors going around.
Dan is amazing
This guy is so nuanced and articulate. He contextualizes his statements so well. I've read enough books on the Third Reich to know he is as accurate as you can get. Lex comes across as being rather simple and uninformed in his views. Like a comic book perspective. To go against Hitler even before he came to power was incredibly risky. The brownshirts were beating up and murdering people for years before 1933. Once he was in power he was untouchable.
The only way to avert Hitler's rise would've been debt forgiveness by France, the UK, etc. The vengeful treaty of Versailles has a lot to answer for.
Not answering the question. Once the Nazis took over the local police and judiciary that should have been an alarm bell. The military and wealthy elites could have acted and wiped out the Nazis. They teamed up with them instead.
Hindsight tells us that. But Hidenberg was the one who elected Hitler chancellor. He thought Hitler was someone who could be manipulated and controlled..... Wrong he was
Dan is awesome.
The more I look at it, the more I feel for Germany. The country had met their fate at the end of WW1, they were in shambles and here comes a passionate man who adopted radicalism and rose to power which got out of hand at the most crucial place and time.
Everything happens for reason, and history teaches you to understand the reason.
Carlin’s view here seems to combine the trends and forces theory with the great man theory. More towards the trends and forces side. I fully agree with it.
Dan was one of my favorite JRE guests. Why did that stop?
Probably because Dan isn’t a comedian and didn’t fall down the COVID hole like ol Joe? 😂
2:49 start of answer.
Took until the end but it does seem the only way to avoid a social and political environment that leads to events like ww2 is stability.
Watching this now makes you think if the current war would have been prevented if something was done about crimea
Good shit Lex and Dan
good talk
What if one of his stooge’s took over, but let’s say this stooge was smart and listened to his generals 🤷 maybe the consequences would have been far more devastating. Or maybe not
We have to remember its easy to "cast a stone" but not so easy to take trip through our own countrys atrocities, I'm 100% a proud Englishman, but I'm not ignorant to my countrys shameful evil acts we bestowed upon other countrys, often less civilised, less advanced nations, we bullied our way through nations like India, Pakistan, Hong Kong, American Natives omg, some of the stuff we did in the name off progress and conquering a nation would make even Adolf Hitler hang his head in shame, (probably not but you never know) anyway the point is its so easy to point the finger, not so easy when the finger is pointing back at you, (food for thought at least)