10 Greatest Battles In Star Trek History
Vložit
- čas přidán 4. 11. 2020
- Roddenberry may have wanted a Utopian future, but that doesn't mean it didn't kick ass.
Read the article here: whatculture.com/tv/10-best-ba...
#StarTrek #Battles #ToughLittleShip
For more awesome content: whatculture.com/topic/star-trek
Follow TrekCulture on Twitter: / trekculture - Zábava
The battle of the Mutara Nebula was in a class by itself. I can't take this list seriously without it..
Even the battle half way to epsilon 9 is good. It’s the battle that took Kirk by surprise.
You said it brother, just rewatched that movie 2 days ago and was impressed anew by it's brilliance the battle of will and wit between Kirk and Khan plus the introduction of blood and fire to the franchise make it easily the best
Khannnnnn!!!!
Sauce for the goose me savek
I expected to see it in this list as well. It’s the Star Trek version of submarine warfare, complete with amazing ILM effects for the era.
Balance of Terror (TOS) deserves more props for being the original model for all these battles. Balance also had a great plot and characters like Yesterday's Enterprise.
"Doomsday Machine" was pretty good also!
Doomsday Machine had INCREDIBLE PATHOS. Still sends chills up my spine.
Thanks Nicholas Thomas. I couldn't remember the title of the show. Easily, number one batter. Even if it was a rip off of the Enemy Below WWII Destroyer versus Sub movie.
Agreed, those classic naval style battles of wit, experience, guile waged between a limited number of ships in the dark are the epitome of good Star Trek battles.
@@scottl9660 Well they were the protoypes and deserveth props for that alone!
I have to agree with other comments that Star Trek Wrath of Khan and Balance of Terror should both have been included somewhere in the top 10.
Spock: Khan's attack pattern suggests two-dimensional thinking. It's been very effective because your strategy has also suggested two-dimensional thinking.
@@firstname9954 There are reasons why certain generals, admirals and sea captains become famous, and that is because the decisions they make matter. Further it was superbly shot, building tension in each battle in the movie until the moment that the tension is released in magnificent fashion.
@@firstname9954 because of the captains? WTF are you talking about?
I just assumed they'd be 1 and 2, and I watched the video just to see which order ... sigh
Ah, the final battle in “The Wrath of Khan?”
I actually liked the first battle more.
the first battle was more of a battle. The second was just a game of hide-n-seek.
Yeah what the heck? It manages to be more engaging than the dominion battles despite having clunky special effects.
This isn't a video about what makes the best "scene", its strictly about battle. in that, Wrath of Khan was just a skirmish between two ships, over the life of one man. Even if you include Genesis into the conversation (which barely got any mention on screen, and mostly just in a deleted scene), the stakes were far less than what SHOULD be on this list....
The battle at the Neutral Zone from "Balance of Terror". Its stakes were CLEARLY spelled out, a new war between the Federation and Romulan Empire, should the Enterprise fail. A war which would have taken far more lives than Khan ever could have with his singular device (if he even could have made it to anything but an outer colony anyway).
Just because we love Wrath of Khan as a film, doesn't mean its battle fits in the context of this video.
@@BrianD0313 You don't know what ship battles are.
Sorry, the two battles in Wrath Of Khan are still the gold standard. Seeing the Enterprise getting carved up like a roast - and then seeing her flee Regula 1, and finally deliver some badly-earned payback - was absolutely the high point of the series up until that time. It's not just that the effects were brilliantly rendered by ILM, it was the visceral impact of them. I don't know how much sense it makes that 23rd century ships lay broadsides into each other like old sailing ships from hundreds of years before, but I know that visually and emotionally it was dynamite. Nothing else Trek has done since has managed to top it.
Sometimes, less is more.
Seeing the Enterprise actually get hit and visibly damaged by enemy fire was jarring. David Gerrold called it "a gut-wrenching image", and he was right.
And who can forget the great lines delivered by Khan just before the first battle, like "let them eat static". Plus Montalban's performance reflected his being truly flattered and honored that he, first created the character in the show and that he made him an enduring one in the movie 15 years later.
That's how most Starfleet ships are: they have phaser strips that enable them to fire broadsides. Klingon ships have their weapons facing forward, so they always need to establish line of sight when firing.
Actually if i may, its kind of explained why the ships fight that way dispite it not making alot of sense in the movie...Khan himself. The man is from an era before fully decked out star ships and isnt experienced in space combat and instead draws upon his vast knowledge of historical naval combat and how they would fight. Hense why Kirk is actually able to best him in the end as the one attribute Krk has over Khan is experience, hense Spock's observation is Khan thinking in 2 dimensions and Kirk using the 3rd dimension of space to come up from under Reliant, something you obviously couldnt do in most naval situations.
Great scenes and great drama are different than great battles. Besides, the battle at the neutral zone in "Balance of Terror" is a far greater "battle" than what we saw in Wrath of Khan.
Having a great scene doesn't mean it was a great battle. Conversely, having a great battle doesn't also mean it was a great scene. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Hold on. Enterprise vs Reliant is clearly the best. The way they dance around each other blinded without sensors, and then the Enterprise rises up and BOOM. From hells heart I stab at thee for not including it!
Seriously. And even the 1701’s final battle in STIII was better than most of what’s on this list. Janeway staring through a hole in the bridge seconds before the great reset button gets pushed is NOTHING compared to Kirk sacrificing THE Enterprise!
@@joshcochran2217 agreed. Even simply stealing the 1701 was more epic than Janeway smashing the Krenim.
the problem with both Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock's battles are.... the complete utter lack of stakes. In Wrath of Khan, the battle in the Mutara Nebula is literally just "Kill the bad guy before he kills us", and in Search for Spock... did that even really count as a battle?
What a dumb comment. What were the stakes in anything on the list besides killing the bad guy first? In TWOK, it was stopping Khan from escaping with a superweapon with Spock sacrificing himself in the process. It’s funny that Nemesis is on the list since its final battle was a ripoff of TWOK - bad guy with a superweapon, central character sacrificing himself to save the crew.
No stakes. Give me a break.
@@joshcochran2217 Yeah, he has no idea what he is talking about. Now, that "battle" in Year of Hell, now that was a battle that had no stakes. The 1st part of the 2 part episode began with the crew of Voyager on the bridge. The end of the second episode ended with them on the bridge in the exact same moment as the beginning of the first episode. Basically, a full two episodes where literally nothing happened.
Good Lord! The Mutara Nebula didn’t break the top ten?! Shaka, when the walls fell...
Shaka! His eyes open!
Temba , at rest
Darmok and Jihlad at Tenagra!
Enough said
a.k.a. "Dharma and Jamal on Viagra" ;)
The entire episode "Balance of Terror" from the original series--the cat-and-mouse game between the Romulan ship and the Enterprise (a retelling of the Robert Mitchum/Curt Jurgens WWII movie "The Enemy Below") takes top honors for suspense and even-handed portrayal of the adversaries.
I'VE GOT THE DVD!
That was my pick as well. It was not as action packed but more closely resembled a chess match.
I hate to dislike a Star Trek video, but the Reliant vs. the Enterprise not making the list is shameful.
Yeah, I kept waiting for the climax of Wrath to show up on the list and then it didn't.
The Battle of the Mutara Nebula.
@@zqxzqxzqx1 that battle is awesome, but their first encounter with the Reliant is still a better battle than some on this list.
@@reidtyndall4953 True dat. Battle of the Genesis Moon? Battle of Regula 1?
When it got to No2 & still wasn't there, I wondered if Wrath of Khan or Balance of Terror would be no.1. I was surprised neither made the top 10.
10: Year of Hell (VOY)
9: Battle in the Briar Patch (TNG)
8: Battle in the Bassen Rift (TNG)
7: Wolf 359 (TNG)
6: First Battle of DS9 (DS9)
5: Battle in the Neutral (TOS: Balance of Terror)
4: Battle of Sector 001 (TNG)
3: The Battle over Khitomer (TOS)
2: Sacrifice of Angels (DS9)
1: Battle in the Mutara Nebula (TOS)
Battle of Kitomer: The Undiscovered Country
Battle of the Briar Patch: Inssurection
Battle of the Bassen Rift: Nemesis
Battle of Sector 001: First Contact
(These were from the Star Trek Movies, not the tv shows as you stated)
Thank you for honoring true star trek I will have to look some of those on youtube
battle of klack klack klack!
@@nagash303 indeed many Klickitats were lost in the battle of klack klack klack. It shall forever be remberered by its Clawmorial monument on Beach of Crabs III.
The only time we even see the Battle of Wolf 359 is in the first episode of DS9. In TNG, they show up after the battle is over and it’s just a bunch of destroyed ships.
You forgot one GREAT one: Voyager Endgame. The finale where Voyager flies through an exploding Borg Sphere is priceless and timeless.
I remember being 10 years old and watching ST6 in theaters and absolutely loved the end battle between the cloaked bird of prey and the enterprise! Fav moment ST moment ever included; Sulu's; Fly Her Apart Then!
I was 9 when I saw it in theaters and loved it.
I am skeptical of all TOS-movie battles after ST2 because we never see the Enterprise-A fire its phasers on screen.
Balance of Terror should be on this list. Sure they had basically no special effects but it was a cerebral battle between two evenly matched captains. Also the Enterprise vs Khan's Reliant in The Wrath of Kahn.
Enterprise vs. Reliant was a skirmish. Balance of Terror had the broader implications of a war with the Romulan Empire, should the Enterprise fail. Also, Kirk seemed to care far more for Tomlinson than any of the cadets, like the two that burned alive in the torpedo bay, or the one Scotty seemed to care so much for (can't say his nephew, because that was a deleted scene, so it does not count. Either way, he still didn't seem too broken up about it).
This was clearly made by Next Gen fans. Next gen shouldn't even be on this list and it's all over it.
@@k1productions87 Skirmishes don't end with the biggest explosion in history and all hands lost. "Broad implications" are not relevant. Stakes aren't what defines being the best battle.
@@alphanerd7221 Except for a little thing called wolf 359, as well as the battle of sector 001
@@alphanerd7221 It was hardly the biggest explosion in history, and more hands were lost at the hands of Captain Benjamin Maxwell and the starship Phoenix then there were in this one encounter.
being your favorite to look at and in your favorite film does not make it the greatest battle either. Nor does it matter who happens to die after the battle’s conclusion.
i’m just trying to get people to realize their clear and deliberate bias toward this film just because in many cases it just happens to be their first. people are so emotionally invested in that one film that it obscures every other consideration. Yes it’s a great film, but this is not the greatest films list
The battle scenes in The Doomsday Machine were epic as well. Particularly given it was filmed in the 60s.
Think it was the best episode of TOS and the effects for a 60's show were off the charts. Still my favorite episode today.
I was about six... I had nightmares for 2 weeks
My favorite episode of the original.
One of the greatest episodes ever. The doomsday machine, so tragic.
The balance of terror is missing.
Notably absent was any of the battles of the NX-01. I guess I’m a casual fan, because I totally dig Enterprise, with special emphasis the season in the Expanse against the Xindi.
Might even have two spots for the list- I'd lean towards the one in Countdown over the Battle of Azati Prime, personally.
Enterprise was fantastic. Given up on right when they picked up speed
@@yjwrangler7819 Strong disagreement. The first and fourth seasons were terrible.
The Voyager battle with the Vaadwaur seems underrated and deserves a place on the list. The battle does everything right that people complain about with Trek battles and special effects. It has swarms of ships chasing and surrounding Voyager, actual animated shield hits, Voyager firing all phasers repeatedly in rapid succession in all arcs, as well as planetary, atmospheric and background effects.
Another vote for the "Cat and Mouse Battle" in Wrath of Kahn!
Balance of Terror would belong higher
@@k1productions87 You are incessant.
No. Mutara. Nebula. I weep for this generation.
Amen brother! I was highly disappointed at the lack of Mutara Nebula! The greatest battle and sacrafice of them all!
So do i
That wasn't so much a battle as it was submarine vs submarine, whoever got the first solid hit wins.
Tense, yes, battle no.
Kids these days. Philistines.
@@tremedar How is that not a battle?
Not even the new stuff has been able to even come close to matching shit that they pulled off on Deep Space Nine. That show is beyond epic.
This list is a good compilation, Except you’re missing number one: The battle of the Mutara nebula. Put that a number one and bump the rest of them down. And then you’ve got the correct list
What puts it at number one? What makes it so special, in the context of "greatest battles" beyond just being in your favorite trek movie?
What makes a "great battle"? This is not a list of greatest scenes or greatest villains. Context is important
@@k1productions87 Oof. Ok.
1. Most character weight and stakes for 2 arch enemies.
2. Most pivotal battle, as it literally shaped the entire arc of the original 6 movies.
3. Best music
4. Suspense
5. The only time when the odds were absolutely against the Enterprise, save for the reboot.
Like I can go on, but you saying “context is everything “ is kinda funny, because I think you missed all the context.
Read the comments. It’s the best battle
@@TheManoDestra we are conflating narrative and content. The list here is the greatest battles, not the greatest villains, movies, or scenes.
1. character weight has little to do with what makes a good battle. Good scene, yes. Sisko and Dukat in "Waltz" for example, GREAT scene of verbal (even physical) jousting between arch enemies... but that is for a different list.
2. Narratively it sets things in motion... but the battle itself has no impact upon what happened on Genesis, the whale probe, Sybok's appearance, or the Khitomer conference. The battle isn't even mentioned afterward. Spock's death is mentioned, but that was an aftermath event, not part of the battle itself. And even then, it was one man sacrificing himself to save the ship. Hardly pivotal in any kind of historical context. Hell, Matt Decker did the same thing, as did every Captain who ever stayed aboard while trying to save his crew.
Narratively its great, but it does not a great battle make.
3. ... has NOTHING to do with the context of "greatest battle".
Again, you are confusing it with "greatest scene"... and even in that I will disagree. The greater music was Genesis Countdown, and I'll even put "Stealing the Enterprise" as a scene above that one.
4. suspense was far stronger in "Balance of Terror" and it too is not on this list... and had far more to offer
5. the only time what?
V'ger would like a word or two
The Whale Probe could not even BE attacked
Chang's Bird of Prey FAR outmatched Enterprise and Excelsior because of its advanced cloak
And then of course there is the Scimitar... and that's only mentioning the movies.
Enterprise-D had been outmatched in TNG several times, and not only by The Borg.
@@k1productions87 @K1productions
There’s a lot that we need to unpack here. I’m going to attempt to be as objective as possible on this, and maybe this is just a good way for me to solidify my thoughts and opinions. I appreciate your zeal, but as always with internet comments, you have your opinion, and I have mine. I doubt there is little I can do to change that. But still, I think you offer a weak and porous argument in opposition to mine, from a lack of precision and fundamental understanding of what the question is here. So, let’s break it down…..
First, we have some imprecision in your last written comment that we need to address: “We” are not conflating anything. You are making an argument that "I" am conflating context and narrative. Even though that’s a common parlance of speech, it is imprecise. It doesn’t help you state your opinion. Rather it serves to poorly and passively-aggressively attempt to negate my argument.
Next, saying “you are conflating” something is not an argument: It’s a way of framing things in your terms and opinions, as an attempt to, again, poorly negate my argument. It's your right to do so, but I think it's incorrect.
I think this imprecision comes from a lack of definition on your (and I’d argue the OP's) opinion on what this video is actually about.
This List is the “Top 10 Best Battles in Star Trek History.”
Notice that it doesn’t say “Top 10 Space Battle conflicts in Star Trek History,” or “Top 10 Greatest a-massing of Fleets” or “Top 10 Greatest Space Maneuvers” Etc.
In Movies/Theater, Battle Scenes serve as a vehicle for this basic premise: It signifies the key elements and conflict of a story, dynamically through action set-pieces. It’s about the struggle for power, the raising of stakes, and the dramatic progression of the tension element in a movie/TV show/story, etc. At the end of the day, it seeks to answer the question of what happens when the protagonist and the antagonist collide.
In this case, the OP has framed this in light of battles between starships in the Star Trek universe. But the definition of Greatest Battle Scenes (I argue) still has to do with the characters in the story, and their conflict. The ships in the battles only have importance because of the crews that they carry, and the goals they are trying to accomplish.
If this title was to suggest the most greatest amount of space maneuvers between starships, then it would probably be “The Charge of the Light Brigade” . It's a very fine battle (especially in the upscaled resolution in “What we left Behind. I hope you've seen it! It's on CZcams for Free!)
But, that’s not how this video is framed, and also explains why 90% of the comments section (correctly) says “Where’s Enterprise vs. Reliant?”
The problem with many of these starship battles is that they lack resonance from an audience point of view. For example, even though The Charge of the Light Brigade is great as a space battle, it’s tough to feel anything other than “WOW EXPLOSIONS!”
When a Galaxy-Class starship is annhilated on screen, we see the set piece, but we don’t “feel it.” There’s tension, but it’s kept at a distance. We see death, but don’t acknowledge it.
In Reliant vs. Enterprise, each phaser blast HURT. No one had ever seen the Enterprise scarred, burned, wrecked, and ruined. The beautiful Enterprise had been attacked in the past, but never had we, as an audience, see her mangled. It was visceral, shocking, that our vehicle through the stars would take such a blow. There’s surprise and twists that (upon 1st watch) has you on the edge of your seat.
It was magnified by the stakes, and the tension of all the scenes, the deception, the score, the lighting, cinematography, EVERYTHING. When Enterprise drops the shields of the Reliant, and fires back, as an audience, our blood races!
When we realize that Scotty’s nephew DIED, we see the tears, we see the burnt body, and then we see the consequences of the battle.
As humans, there comes a point where we can’t conceive the magnitude of a conflict. Some things are too big for us to comprehend. So great filmmakers ground us in a personal account (or personal story) so that we can feel the weight of the decisions that are made. (See Steven Spielberg's opening scene of Saving Private Ryan)
Battles are more impactful and more important when they resonate with us at a personal level. I’d argue that the greatest battle in all of Star Trek was between Kirk and Khan. Not because one was immensely powerful, but because of Khan’s cunning in hurting Kirk, Khan’s skill at exposing Kirk’s weaknesses, and forcing Kirk into difficult choices.
No one cried in the aftermath of The Battle of the Light Brigade. But, in the aftermath of the the Mutara Nebula, I KNOW that people wept, when Spock died to save the ship. The battle wasn’t over, until Spock sacrificed himself. That means something. Granted, it's not an explosion in space, but it is part of the battle.)
Was Enterprise vs. Reliant the most showy? No. Did it have the most ships? No. Did it feature massive fleets battling in a head on collision? No.
What it did have was one of the most personal and engaging battles of 2 opposing starships in Star Trek (And I’d argue in Sci-Fi) That is why it’s the best. Story matters. Context matters. Stakes Matters. Tension Matters.
@@TheManoDestra I get all that. I just try to point out that nobody (in the broad sense. Few exceptions don't disprove the larger whole) takes any time to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, their die-hard defense of Wrath of Khan may be personal bias. They treat it like its the greatest battle they've ever seen... but IS it? Is it really? They act as if excluding it is some kind of deliberate insult... but IS it? Is it really?
Worse, some people act as if not including Wrath of Khan means someone doesn't understand "true" Star Trek, and that DOES get under my skin.
"Nobody cried when..."
to be honest, I cried harder when the Enterprise self destructed in Search for Spock than I ever did for Spock himself... but NOBODY is going to claim the battle over Genesis was a better battle, not even me.
Is the Battle of Pelennor Fields in Lord of the Rings the greatest battle in that franchise because of how emotional King Theoden's death was? No. The emotion of what FOLLOWS a battle should bear no influence on the battle itself. The emotion of the Charge of the Rohirrim DURING the battle however SHOULD bear influence upon how great that battle is. Because that happened DURING the battle. That had impact UPON the battle itself.
If Wrath of Khan was on this list in any place other than #1, would the reaction have been any different? The die-hard obsession with Wrath of Khan from the fanbase at large borders on religion, because nobody even questions it anymore.
THAT is the primary source of my own personal issue here. This die-hard obsession with keeping Wrath of Khan on the highest of pedestals. And why? Well lets be honest, Wrath of Khan is most people's favorite specifically because it has the cool space battle. And oftentimes these same people will bitch out everything post-Enterprise for being "nothing but pew-pew" even in cases where Wrath of Khan has MORE "pew-pew"
So, yeah... I may have my own bias about NOT wanting to see Wrath of Khan topping every single Star Trek list ever made, because quite frankly, it SHOULDN'T. Hell, if only we had propped up Voyage Home instead, we wouldn't have gotten the whole Into Darkness controversy.
...No. I'm sorry, but no. The battle in Generations was an utter embarrassment. It wasn't a battle, it was 'the Enterprise returns fire once then gets twatted over and over'.
I miss people saying 'twatted'. They don't say it in The Netherlands. If I say it, then I have to explain what it means.
Oh... you are also 100% correct too.
@@toumbryth7862 Well, don't forget season 2, where Riker said 'combat skills are a minor province of a starship captain'... they were a good deal complacent, back then.
@@toumbryth7862 I agree. When I first saw it the battle didn't bother me too much but in subsequent viewings, and knowing their phaser modulations needed to penetrate Borg shields, I would think there would be a standard battle procedure to re-modulate their own shields in the event an enemy found a way to penetrate them.
@@toumbryth7862 Do you have the same complaint about The Undiscovered Country?
@@kwebb121765 the enterprise wasn't destroyed in that movie.
Honestly some of the battles from TOS, which were not as epic in scale and of course lacking in modern CGI and blockbuser budgets were simply incredible, episodes like "Balance of Terror" and "The Doomsday Machine" for example. Leaving the final battle in "The Wrath of Khan" is unforgivable though. PS Star Trek Enterprise had a few good battles during its run
And don't forget "The Ultimate Computer" - especially with the revised SFX
Enterprise had all the best battles of the spin offs.
Let's not forget Kirk's canny battle instincts showcased in "Journey to Babel." Also love how they punctuated it with a subtle line from Kirk. The phony Andorian says, "I seem to have miscalculated" and Kirk quietly remarks, "So did they" nodding to the viewscreen.
Apart from missing the Battle of the Mutara Nebula from Wrath of Khan, an honourable mention has to also go to the Battle of the Omarian Nebula - The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order taking on the Dominion, all with the Defiant weaving in and out was beyond epic. Attack Pattern Omega!!!!
The die is cast
Omarion Nebula was a awesome battle. I also thought it was weird we never saw the Dominion/Cardassia build a defiant killer. Given how many times that vessel completely own the dominion ships. That could have made a good episode, Sisko having to go hunting for a prototype ship equipped with stolen Klingon cloak that raiding Federation/Klingon supply, a vessel with equal firepower and manoeuvrability to the defiant.
The best battle was star trek 2, wrath of kahn, that final battle was amazing
It was a great scene, but hardly a great "battle" in proper context. It was a skirmish.
That being said, replace Veridian III with the battle at the Neutral Zone from "Balance of Terror" (TOS)
To make context clearer - imagine if you walked into the Federation Archive and asked to see a record of the greatest battles in Starfleet history. What would be on that list?
@@k1productions87 When using the word battle Im also referring to the sacrifice being made in order to win from Kahn, An Iconic character gave his life in order for the enterprise to survive and its crew, Battles to me arent always the most epic scenes or these days most CGI scenes, its the setup, the cat and mouse game between Kahn and Kirk and the conclusion that made this for me and no other battle has brought up the same emotions for me when I first saw this movie and fight
@@DarkDanjal1981 it isn't even about being the most epic, which is why I place Balance of Terror above it. Half of the time (in the original broadcast) you don't even see anything. But the tension is real, the strategy and tactics are clearly defined, and the stakes are broad and clearly spelled out. Interstellar war between the Federation and the Romulan Empire, should the Enterprise fail.
Further, even the one life lost clearly hits Kirk hard,... whereas in Wrath of Khan, he didn't seem to care for anyone but Spock. Nary a mention of the two burned alive in the torpedo room.
Also again, there is a difference between "greatest scene" and "greatest battle" and that context needs to be remembered. Many who push for Wrath of Khan to be on the list are missing that context. Emotion doesn't factor into the equation
@@k1productions87 You don't know what a skirmish is.
Enterprises battle for the xindi sphere is one of my faves! 🖖🏻🕶🖖🏻
I didn't realize how truly epic that battle was until re-watching season 3. Gotta love starships being actual starships, rather than single-hit-kill fightercraft
@@k1productions87 Easily the most epic of Trek Battles.
Wait no battle of the mutara Nebula from star trek 2?? "to hells heart, i stab at thee, i spit my last breath at thee" (probably misquoted that lol) I really thought that would of been there as it results in the death of a main character.
Yes, the lack of sheilds, the view screen barely working and targeting being all hodgepodge. Plus the tactics used... It's almost straight from a submarine warfare book.
I was expecting the Mutara Nebula battle to be on this list too. For shame TrekCulture. 😕😕
What were the stakes of that battle? Its literally just "Kill the bad guy before he kills us"
@@k1productions87 I'd like to think it was more than that. A battle of wits, tactics, both ships are evenly matched at this point; and although Khan is a superior intellect, Kirk and crew have more experience. 🤔🤔
@@EyeInTheSky982 But do you see, .... you are outlining what makes a good SCENE. But we are confusing "scene" with "battle"
As a SCENE, it was awesome, bordering on a perfect scene, and it deserves every bit of that assessment. But from the standpoint of a "battle"... it was hardly a battle at all. We must be sure to recognize the distinction.
Conversely, the battle of Veridian III may have been much more of a "battle".... but as a scene, it was really quite poor. Only the core breach and crash saved it in that regard.
It's also the fact that Star Trek has always emphasised cooperation over one-person mavericks. The "one-man starfighter" is a Star Wars trope, where the one person alone makes the difference (usually amped up by space magic). Star Trek's ships are testimony to cooperation and multiple skilled contributors making a difference.
Plus, realistic space battles in the future are far more likely to be analogous to submarine warfare than aircraft carrier warfare. Finding an enemy ship in space is the hardest part.
There is still quite a lot of cooperation with one-man fighter craft in both real-life and fiction though, with pilots flying in groups to accomplish objectives. Even in Star Wars, a lot of space battles had fighter craft working together to accomplish goals. Luke would not have made his objective without support of wingmates covering his back on Yavin 4. The only example of "one person makes the difference" I can think off hand in Star Wars films is the space battle over Naboo where a young Anakin blows a Trade Federation flagship solo without basically any support of Naboo pilots whom were incapable of harming the massive warship in any meaningful manner. And it was weakest space battle... of the George Lucas films, the Disney films got even worse (barring Rogue One, which also showcased fighter craft mostly working effectively in groups rather than solo).
Don't forget the fact that the Starships are capable of traveling 1000s of km/sec, there weapons are incredibly powerful, and ships targeting is often so precise they can pinpoint specific ships systems successfully while maneuvering at full speed.
@@Thomas-te2lg - I'm talking about the heroes of the story being basically knights on horseback, while all the others are relegated to spear-carriers. It's not a criticism of Star Wars, it's just saying that the two shows have a different emphasis: one is on the individual (with the notable exception of Rogue One), while the other is on the group. One is on overthrowing a regime, the other is on working within the system to fix it.
The simplest demonstration of this is in the spaceships the show focuses on: Star Wars focuses heavily on the one-man fighter, whereas Star Trek focuses on a city in space. I'm not suggesting being a fighter pilot makes you a loner, but I'm pointing out that the other pilots only existed to get Luke to the thermal exhaust port, and most of them died doing so.
Agreed about Voyager. The moment Janeway crashed into the Crenim ship was epic!
Federation ship designer 1 "Let's put lots of power conduits and explosive charges In our bridge consoles."
Designer 2: "Can we add rocks?"
Designer 1: "...........That is genius."
To be fair Romulan ships have the same design.
Douglas Adams got there first: “We'll be saying a big hello to all intelligent lifeforms everywhere and to everyone else out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys.”
I was hoping to see Star Trek Enterprise: Azati Prime in the list. That scene was awesome.
Agreed, cant believe it was left out
That was an epic scene, I just rewatched recently and can't believe I forgot how awesome it is.
Yes especially when he ship gets hulled and crewmen go flying out into space! That was shocking!
While it was a great scene, the battle a few episodes later was more impressive. Enterprise, Arboreals, Primates and Aquatics vs. The Weapon, Reptilians and Insectoids.
Or the battle from Countdown; what? I love that Aquatic cruiser...
The battle with Khan from the surprise attack until the Nebula is the best. Hard to believe you completely ignored that.
This video is bullshit.
The final battle during the Xindi war was intense, surprised this wasn't included. It was awesome that Shran got involved.
Al the battle where Enterprise got into the middle of a fight between the Vulcans and Andorians was pretty cool.
"Stuck in the middle with garak" might just be the best joke ever on CZcams. No need for anyone else, you can all go home
But we're already home? ;)
The battle of Veridian 3 shouldn't even be on this list let alone be number 2.
Agreed. There's no way a Galaxy-class ship could be destroyed that way by an old ship. Even after the first shot was fired, the Enterprise still could have easily destroyed the Bird of Prey.
OP I agree with you completely. The Battle of Veridian 3 is an epically bad choice. Battle of Mutura Nebula and Binary Star being left off is really criminal.
@@UltimateNeoHunter I agree. All they had to do was use the shield mutations they designed for fighting the Borg and then the Enterprise could have simply ripped the Bird of Prey apart with its tractor beam at that point. Rotate those shield frequencies and the battle is over.
@@pvb747 To be fair, when Generations came out rotating shield frequencies wasn't something that had been done in any episode or movie, but the bird of prey destroying a Galaxy class is still BS either way. What bothers me is that piloting a shuttle craft into the nexus and blowing it's hatch would have been way easier for Soran than destroying a star and killing everyone on the populated planet. That is how Kirk ended up in the Nexus, so the destruction of the star had been established as not being the 'only way' of getting into it.
Veridian 3 had the worst case of wimpy Enterprise syndrome in the franchise. Should have been in the list of weakest Star Trek battles.
The snobbery of skipping TOS in its entirety teaches me everything I need to know about you and your channel.
You can get an amen for that buddy.
The snobbery of demanding TOS should be included tells me everything i need to know about you.
@@FBobby considering if there wasn't any TOS all of this wouldn't exist and you can't recognize that tells me everything I need to know about you.
@@FBobby Well TOS had the best space battles so not including it is really dumb.
@@alphanerd7221 oh please. that's gotta be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I miss the "Battle of Mutara Nebula" (Star Trek II) also and the "Balance of Terror"'s battle scene (TOS)...
Nothing beats the tension of “Yesterday’s Enterprise”
Picard quote alone makes it one of the best.
@@adamabbas1487 he gets a lot of great lines in that one 👍
Shooter McGavin in a starfleet uniform also a plus 😊
"Enterprise. Surrender and prepare to be boarded."
Picard:"That'll be the day."
it was one of the best episodes in the entire series, and probably in the franchise.
The fact that the khan battle isn’t here makes me sick
you mean Balance of Terror, don't you? The fact so many place Wrath of Khan so high on the list makes me sick, because it shows nothing but bias for "my favorite Star Trek movie"
The battle itself was little more than a skirmish, and the stakes were only spelled out in a deleted scene. Otherwise it was just about saving Kirk's life.
Meanwhile, Balance of Terror clearly spells out that a war between the Federation and the Romulan Empire could erupt, should the Enterprise fail.
This is not a list of your favorite scenes, your favorite villains, or your favorite movies/episodes. This is strictly about the battles. And so few people are capable of keeping that context clear.
The main reason that we don't often see fighters in Star Trek is that phasers are controlled by computers with superluminal sensors and therefore, never miss. Being a fighter pilot is Star Trek would be a guaranteed death sentence.
Being as TOS is my favorite, I'd have to include the Enterprise battling the planet killer in The Doomsday Machine and the Enterprise taking on Commodore Wesley's battle fleet in The Ultimate Computer (the new versions with the new special effects added).
All fantastic choices, Just a shame there was no room for the battle in "Azati Prime" The Enterprise NX-01 getting its arse handed to it by a fleet of Xindi ships, Wrecked and adrift in space powerless as the end credits roll had my jaw on the floor.
Enterprise never gets the credit it deserves. In a mirror darkly could have also made the list.
Definitely a highlight for that series.
Thank you my thoughts exactly
That scene was absolutely amazing and where season 3 finally found it's footing
I want to also make a case for the Xindi Arobrials, Primates, Aquatics, and Enterprise vs. the Xindi Insectoids, Reptilians and the Weapon. It wasn't just a hodgepodge of exploding ships, it had structure and placement, AND had definite stakes
The Starfleet Double Fist Punch. The Quantum Torpedo of hand to hand combat.
Once the boarding began it seemed to me like the writers wanted to give every character a chance to show a kill or two. But the choreographers got bored, and so we see the same one, two, three, kill over and over again. And not a drop of blood.
That move always made me cringe.
Dan Curry cane up with Mok'bara for Worf and some one cane up with the most terrible move they could use in hand to hand for the other races.
Face palm!
I always liked the battle at the end of "All Good Things". It was like the special effects crew finally figured how to shoot a battle sequence in 3d.
Battle of the Mutara nebula. Enterprise vs. Reliant?
Enterprise vs Reliant had a submarine cat and mouse feel to it.
DS9 was my absolute favorite Trek series
DS9 certainly had plenty of combat.
@@jacksonheathen2092 and more cultural exploration than other Trek series as the station couldn't move around
@@anthonymonaghan4964 I'll give you that. 👍
You forgot four of the best battles in the franchise's long life: balance of Terror (a battle of wits against two principled, talented commanders and their crews), The Doomsday machine (a good man's misguded attempt to make good on past mistakes) and Ultimate Computer (a toast to captain Dumsel). And, of course, the entire ST II: TWoK, one of the hallmarks of space battles in science fiction, not only Star Trek.
Oh, I agree with those. Doomsday Machine especially. Oh, sure, we all know of Khan quoting the hell out of Moby Dick in TWoK, but this was THE Moby Dick metaphor
I rewatched Balance of Terror recently and it's become probably my favorite episode of TOS.
@@mythicaldakka It's one of the best ones, no doubt about that.
i agree for the most part. Mainly because I loved DS9. Sacrifice of angels and way of the warrior were amazing to watch. The discovery battle at the end of season 2 was pretty damn good. I do think the tactical ones needed a bit of a flag raise. Wrath of Khan's battle especially. but for sheer impact. DS9's end battle was a good choice for number 1
i do remember cheering when the klingons appeared in that episode...
I think the TOS battle with the planet killer should get a nod.
Yep. The gaint ice cream cone. That was a great TOS episode.
Don't forget the music that was such an obvious inspiration for the Jaws theme.
Deep Space 9 ,in my opinion., has to be the best canon of all Star Trek.
Cudos to all those folks that were involved in that cutting edge, artistic, brilliant storytelling!
Character depths and growth is DS9's greatest feature.
DS9 isn't even real trek.
@@alphanerd7221 And that statement completely invalidates anything you say from here on
TOTALLY AGREE!!!! Out of all of the classic Trek series, Deep Space Nine has aged the best. A large part is the current state of TV. Now that people can binge episodes, the kaleidoscope of colors that is the DS9 storylines can now be viewed in their glory along with the fantastic character development.
@@k1productions87 - Absolutely!!! None of the primary or secondary characters are the same from the first episode to the last. Nog by himself has a much better character arc than most regular cast members of some of the other shows. And he got promoted!!
Honorable mention- Battle of the Mutara Nebula. ST II TWOK
w/e... ST:TWoK is THE BEST battle, most of the star trek TV and movie battles show the "ships" moving around like fighter craft which causes the battles to lose a lot in terms of realism, not that many of them didnt look "good" they just didnt look REAL.
What the Battle in the Mutara Nebula lacked was stakes. Literally, the stakes were just "stop Khan from killing Kirk" The rest of the crew mattered little, it all centered around saving Kirk. Even Khan's possession of the Genesis Device was only paid lip-service, and any related stakes thereof only existed in deleted scenes.
@@k1productions87 you seem pretty short sighted... so a historically genocidal madman with a planet killing device isnt "high enough" stakes for you... hmmm.
@@tonyf8167 Oh it would be nice if the movie itself actually presented that. The only indication we get where that is even an issue is in the deleted scenes. Beyond that, the Genesis Device is only a bargaining chip between them. And Khan just detonates it to be a Kirk killer. Even in the extended versions, Khan himself made no reference what-so-ever to any importance of having Genesis other than just having it.
Oh WE can theorize all we want, but that doesn't excuse it. That's us writing for the writers, when THEY should have been the ones doing that work.
Besides, if Khan having the Genesis Device was so important, the battle in the Mutara Nebula shouldn't have even happened. Even Joachim tries to remind him of this... but even then, we only get an incomplete sentence.
Just so much missed opportunity just to have some cool shots of starships superimposed with footage from the "cloud tank" and a few exchanges of weapons fire.
@@k1productions87 read the book, it addresses all your points and it is worth the read (Saavik was a totally gimped character in the movies)... movies dont have time and/or often cant fully actualize what is really happening...
but none of this negates my initial premise; there is a difference between a SHIP and CRAFT, a point that is often ignored in the ST franchise to the detriment many space battle scenes.
Sacrifice of Angels still gives me chills. 12/10 battle.
Honorable mention: USS Voyager’s battles with the Kazon and the Borg were pretty awesome.
Species 8472 vs the Borg, and their ships joining together to destroy an entire planet was amazing.
Wait, what about the battle with the xindi in Enterprise? That battle is amazing as well.
Excellent Video. I do think you left out Star Trek 2 however. That Nebula battle scene was so well done and even in our new "CGI" World today still stands up to the test of time as well. Just an amazing battle scene. I think it could have easily been number 1 on your list, it was just that good.
The reason Star Trek doesn't do small craft battles usually is because their cap ship weapons are fast enough and precise enough to hit small craft. The Aircraft Carrier doesn't become the dominant force if the Battleship can hit planes WITH THEIR MAIN GUNS.
The battle from insurrection was pretty good because of Riker's perfect line: "We're through running from these bastards".
Honorable mentions (or replacements):
1) The first battle with the Jem'Hadar by the Odyssey (The Jem'Hadar).
2) The battle between the Turei/Voyager and the Vaadwaur (Dragon's teeth).
3) The battle to rescue Odo and Garak (The Die is cast).
4) The battle between the Defiant and the Lakota (Paradise Lost).
5) The final battle of the Dominion war (What you leave behind).
6) NX-01 versus the assimilated Arctic One vessel (Regeneration).
7) The battle for Unimatrix Zero (Unimatrix Zero).
Disagree with #5; while it had its moments, too much footage was reused...
Objection to the Discovery Battle.... A far BETTER and more realistic Space Battle is between the Reliant and Enterprise in Star Trek 2 in the mutara Nebula.
But regarding the Nr1 Space Battle.... Of course IT has to be DS9!!
Actually... no, its not realistic at all.
Firstly,... Nebula do not work that way. They would have to be in an actual ATMOSPHERE to get anything remotely like that.
Secondly,... Photon Torpedoes (even in TOS) detonate with a massive explosion. They don't just scar the hull
Thirdly, even Phasers are far more powerful than that. May I remind you, these ships have NO SHIELDS. TWO HITS rendered the USS Excalibur lifeless and adrift.
.... and then we get no stakes what-so-ever. It is literally just "Kill the bad guy before he kills us"
Agreed. Battle in the Mutaran Neb should've replaced std's entry which just didn't feel like trek combat anymore and felt more like
"how can we put more uneccesary flashy explosions in a trek battle"
Imho they should've had the two ships play a more cat-and-mouse like game against the s31 fleet, more of a battle of wits rather than a straight up dog fight, something like what Axanar tried to pull off before they were shut down (and it was obvious whoever was behind axanar rly knew trek combat).
@@memorybeta787 Well... to be fair,... that was also what "Sacrifice of Angels" and the first Battle of Chintoka was. Starships being one-shotted like they were fightercraft. It is literally the one major complaint about DS9 I have. At least with Discovery, even at the Battle of the Binary Stars, starships had SHIELDS and tanked hits rather than maneuvering around them or blowing up from one shot.
As for Axanar, I heard they were planning a whole different take on Trek combat, which is understandable as it was based off the FASA roleplaying game. But we shall soon see when Part IV and V of the Four Years War comes out.
Neither crew was fighting in three dimensions the entire fight? A veteran starship nor a ship crewed by super humans? It was a great movie scene, but failed in the actual battle department
@@k1productions87 Also, the scale seemed weird. It seemed like the battle took place out of the solar system. Yet the Enterprise's engines were mangled so they were just using maneuvering thrusters - so how did the get to the planet? Even with impulse taking them up to near light speed it would have taken several hours to get there.
However, there's a big plus to the two-part battle: it saved Star Trek. The TV show had been gone for decades. The first movie didn't do much to revive it. Then Wrath of Khan showed up and the whole thing took off! I'm pretty sure that battle was a big part of it.
I know it was never filmed, but I "saw" the battle in the TOS book Dreadnaught, and if they ever decide to film it that battle would definitely make the list.
Hey everyone, Riker tells Diana to take the helm so she doesn't die. (All good things). In a different reality she dies, Enterprise doesn't turn, fires everything and survives. He did it for love
I am so happy you included Voyager /
Year of Hell and Janeway’s TIMES UP❤️
such a great arc! Voyager is constantly underrated.
@@LincolnFarquharson 👍🏻well put absolutely
Honestly, there could be a video about the best battles of DS9 alone.
DS9 certainly had plenty of battles. One thing I've noticed after having watched every episode so many times in that they reused a lot the same scenes for different battles.
The space battles and interactions is why more thsn 15 years ago I played the PC game "Star Trek: Bridge Commander".
#1 was something my friends and I talked about the next day at school. It was amazing.
Star Trek: Nemesis crosses elements from Star Trek II & Star Trek VI- it was serviceable enough, but its hard to believe that the Scimitar's cloak couldn't be penetrated as Data was there and he advised a defense against the Picard Manuever, and in Star Trek VI, Uhura , Dr. McCoy & Capt. Spock modified a photon torpedo as a heatseeker to destroy Chang's Klingon Bird-of-Prey.
I drool when those two Galaxy-class ships come in to view and murderise the Galor-class ship.
that part ALWAYS does it for me!
Hell yes. Watching that galor get carved up like a thanksgiving turkey is SO damn satisfying
Gave him the old right there Fred.
Enterprise Vs Reliant is, hands down, THE BEST Star Trek's space battle EVER
Thank you!! This video really cheered me up!!
Missed some really great battles from Enterprise
Where is the love for Enterprise the battle for the xindi weapon was dope
I especially loved seeing how most of the Xindi ships were all about the same size and in the middle of all that comes the enormous Xindi Aquatics’ ships.
And the battle had structure, both physically and narratively. It wasn't just big mess of ships and weapons fire. And they didn't just blow up after one hit. After watching season 3 again, that battle between the Aquatics/Arboreals/Primates and Enterprise vs. the Insectoids/Reptilians and the Weapon was actually epic as all hell. Then throw in the Sphere Builders' interference.
How did the Generations "battle" make it onto the list but the final battle of the Dominion War or the Wrath of Kahn were sadly left out?
Also, should add "Space Battles" to the title. Just "Battles" could imply ground battles too where the Siege of AR-558 would reign supreme there :)
Generations does not belong on this list, that is certain. But neither does Wrath of Khan
"Balance of Terror" (TOS) should be however. If only for the larger implications of a war with the Romulan Empire, should the Enterprise fail.
I remember those very cool cg shots in all sorts and on tv it definitly kicked ass and still is man I've been watching for well since i was 11 to 15 yrs old so...
The Battle of Sector 001 was also a chance to let the new Sovereign class Enterprise E flex its muscles. Like the Saber, Steamrunner, and Akira classes, the Sovereign class was designed to be a more combat oriented Starfleet vessel. Like the Defiant, the Sovereign class Didn't have any families on board and a significant reduction in laboratory facilities, but also an equally significant increase in things like weapons systems and armor. Background lore snippets from Star Trek Online said that the Enterprise was also part of a Starfleet counter attack to repel the Breen from Earth during the Dominion War.
That's one of the main reasons DS9 is my favorite series
If they redid these battles into what Discovery is with the CGI, im sure we would all be blown away more than the original scenes did.
10: Year of Hell (VOY)
9: Battle of Sector 001 (ST8)
8: Battle in the Bassen Rift (ST10)
7: Wolf 359 (TNG/DS9)
6: First Battle of DS9 (DS9)
5: Battle against the Planet Killer (TOS: Doomsday Machine)
4: Second Battle of DS9 (DS9)
3: The Battle over Khitomer (ST6)
2: Battle in the Mutara Nebula (ST2)
1: Sacrifice of Angels (DS9)
The Enterprise-D one-shot the Duras sisters, Data’s fist pump, then almost immediately after saying “oh shit!” always gets me to this day.
Data is ALWAYS a win!
And yet that 20 year old Bird of Prey singlehandedly destroyed the Enterprise-D. You'd think they would have learned something from the Borg on how to modulate their shields once under attack especially after Worf says, "They've penetrated our shields". The Duras sisters should have only been able to get in one lucky shot, that's all. Poor writing.
Did anyone else when they saw the time ship think to themselves "the name of the place, is Babylon 5" ?
Now that you mention it...
Definitely. The same colors and design style
@Dave Roche yes.........
Enterprise Vs The Doomsday Machine is worth a mention.
I seem to be in good company here looking at the other comments. I waited through the other entries thinking for SURE that Wrath of Kahn would make the #1 spot, but that movie's battles didn't even make the top 10? WTF! Not only were the visuals spectacular (especially for the time), but the focus on strategy and outsmarting an intellectually superior foe made those battles truly epic! I generally love what this channel has to offer, but this seems like a big "oops."
Gotta be some DS9 ones in here.
Operation Return. Gotta be.
That and The Way Of The Warrior.
And A Call To Arms.
The DS9 Dominion War battle scenes were often stunning, but they were also a lot of fun to sit and count what BS they threw in the background. I remember pausing the VHS tape and counting Constitution Class they snuck into the background.
Balance of Terror, Enterprise V. Reliant. 1 and 2.
I like Enterprise vs the Romulan Marauders in "ENT: The Aenar"
How could you leave out WoK? Two of the best fights ever, combining drama, fun and fear. Or Balance of Terror? Or The Doomsday Machine?
Balance of Terror I agree with, because the larger implications of a war with the Romulan Empire should the Enterprise fail. Everything else was just a skirmish. Just because its a good scene or in your favorite film doesn't make it the greatest battle.
Totally agre with your list but you did leave out Reliant vs Enterprise in Wrath of Khan.
because it doesn't belong on such a list. Context is battle, not scene structure. It makes a great moment on film, but that is not the same thing.
That being said, Veridian III doesn't belong here either
Excellent video! I'm still that 8 year old kid that saw "The Corbomite Manoeuvre" for the first time. Star Wars on the big screen too. Taaaaa!
I suggest you do another one of these featuring single ship to ship battles.
I largely agree with your fleet action rankings. LL&P
As much as Nemisis was pretty weak, I bloody loved the battle with the scimitar
It wasn't weak, it SUCKED! Have you noticed that they rebooted TOS, and they stopped making TNG movies? They were terrible! They used to say that TOS cast was getting too old???? Perhaps TNG cast should listen.... ST picard??? Should be renamed ST Geriatrics.
I find it odd that ST ENT. doesn't even get so much as a second of screentime, let alone a honorable mention. You included TOS, but not ENT?
Love that DS9 takes up half this list!
The Defiant had the galaxy's strongest plot armor in Starfleet.
Nah. The ship never got hit all that much. When it did it was crippled or killed.
That’s voyager
USS Voyager, registration number NCC IDDQD
@@Andrew-pr9xv 😉🤣
Correction: Ablative plot armor. =P
Aw no Balance of Terror? While the original series was light on ship to ship stuff that episode had fantastically well played up tension.
and the larger implications of a war with the Romulan Empire, should the Enterprise fail
There has never been a time in Star Trek when the warp core ejection system worked properly. Apparently the Pakleds developed the technology.
Voyager managed it, but just once. Why the auto-ejection system and even the backup manual ejection system always seemed to fail in tandem is beyond me! And I have always found the Galaxy Class ships to be amazing to look at on screen, they more than any other starship look like they were made for exploring deep space! They way they killed the Enterprise D, and the reason they killed Enterprise D, has always pissed me off! :-|
Actually Commander Riker and Lieutenant Commander LaForge ejected The Enterprise E Warp Core in Star Trek Insurrection in the Battle against Son'a In the Briar Patch.
Normally I hate most narration during a video... But I love this its hilarious... Starfleet double fist club punches lol... Love your star trek videos, keep them coming mate... Love from Scotland...
The HECK?! Where's the Battle of the Mutara Nebula!?!
@6:00 Actually, if your weapons are accurate enough at long enough distance, as they are in Star Trek, fighters become useless. The use of fighters in general in a sci fi setting owes either to rule of cool or poor targeting capabilities in the series itself. We're coming up to that point in the real world with the deployment of laser and railgun weapons on ships. The ability of the ship to destroy targets with pinpoint accuracy at very long range makes the use of fighters a meaningless waste of life and/or resources.
The reason why Number 5 is not done is more due to the fact that its difficult and probably unrealisitic when you take into the account most factions use highly accurate energy beams that can destory unsheilded capital ships in one shot. And by accurate, I mean able to shot and destory missiles and torpedoes if fired at long range. Honestly, unless your desparate like when the Federation was during the Dominion War, and willing to scarfice hunderds of highly skilled pilots to support capital ships to win the battle, you do not use fighers. As to win such as battle would require to swarm the target in numbers that could be spent making a fleet of Defiant class ships, or act as living chafers for larger ships.
Also, carrier battles is mainly done at long distance, with capital ships not even in visual range of each other. Not in one to one combat most space battles would have them.
BOOM!! Love It! I haven’t watched Trek since Terra Prime on Enterprise aired in 2004. This presentation brought back SO many excellent memories I can’t even begin to name them!! BOOM...