Games Workshop SUE Their Own Fanbase...But Are They RIGHT to Do So? A 40K Rant.
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
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I have ceased and desisted from purchasing Age of Sigmar as keeping up with 3 Games Workshop Games was putting me into I.P. (infinite Poverty).
Clever lol
Collect 1oz silver/gold coins instead. Just put tape on them and write what unit they are. Not as exciting... until 20 years down the road, you open your big box of painted plastic no one wants anymore because GW went woke years ago. Or, you open your big box of 1oz silver that did nothing but go up in value over the years and you sell it all to one coin shop guy. Seriously, buy 1 ..just 1 oz coin and your collection hobby might change forever. I fkin love silver and gold coins, triggers some long dormant viking dna or something but I love it. I also got kinda peeved during the female custodies thing ( i can read the writing on the wall) and decided to sell all my novels etc. THIS is the time to sell... gawd damn I 5x my money on everything... best part, still have it all in digital format. If someone could take raw silver/gold and make plain mini's (could still paint them) and not charge a ton over spot it would give people mini's to collect while enriching themselves, instead of pumping tons of (Evil so sayeth the climate dicks) Plastic into this world.
You and a lot of other people, a lot of Skaventide not selling and GW trying to pressure FLGS to take more stock.
@@johnwhite9461too bad for GW EmanGs' skaven are way better than their skaventide garbage.
Surely you made the critical mistake of failing to activate your Loan stratagem during the 'pre order' sub phase of the battle round.
I'm no GW fan, but this an open and shut case of IP theft that EmanG was profiting from...handsomely. GW sent multiple cease and desists. He ignored them and kept profiting. It took a lawsuit to get the guy's attention and he has now settled. I have heard zero indication GW was attempting to make an example of the guy either. As far as I can tell the lawsuit only happened because there was no other way to get him to stop.
I don't think the terms of the settlement are public, but the gofundme seems to imply that the $45,000 he wants from that would cover his legal fees and the settlement amount and based on other sources it sounds like he was making over $5,000 monthly from this! I hate to say this, but based on publicly available facts I'm... (can't believe I'm saying it) 100% on GW's side on this.
I’ve had a thought: would CA be able to go after him too, given he extracted files from total war Warhammer, and while the models are from GWs IP; CA did make them and would have some sort of protection for the 3d meshes they created.
@@Scruffynerfherder10yes CA/Sega would be able to go after him too. And he’s very lucky they haven’t already!
I think GW referred to it as 'I.P. Piracy' in addition to the usual 'Copyright Infringement'. Don't quote me, this is 2nd hand knowledge.
IP laws are morally wrong, EmanG did nothing wrong.
Fuck GW and fuck IP laws, imma try and reupload EmanG's files to all 3d sites just to spite GW.
@@felipearias5622go for it. Nobody is stopping you except maybe GW.
Ok before watching as far as i am aware, the guy getting sued was ripping models directly out of one of the Warhammer AoS games, GW sent a cease and desist letter, he ignored it and continued and now is getting raked over the coals in court and in debt from legal fees.
Correction: he extracted the low res in game models to be used as a digital reference and would completely resculpt them from the ground up. There is a reason why he was the only person who was able to do it. He then posted those sculpts for free on cults3d. He hosted a patreon where he sold supported versions of the models. For reference, supporting a model yourself can take anywhere from 10 mins to an hour depending on the model. Eventually his patreon received a C&D from GW. The legal document doesn't talk about it but he discussed the C&D with a correspondent from patreon who seemed to think it could be contested, so he did. A long period of time goes by and here we are.
Source: I was there for it all over the last couple years. I think some of the details not discussed on the legal document are necessary for understanding the full picture.
The start of this rant reminds me of my uni days I studied product design and day one my lecture brought out an envelope and said there’s a £100 in it and if during the three years with me you come up with something completely new that doesn’t currently exist or have any similar sort of product it’s yours. That envelope is still at his desk all these years later because it’s now so hard to actually make something new that isn’t inspired or related to something that already exists
For fucks sake he ripped files directly from total war and did sell pre-supported files on his patreon.
And? Maybe GW should hurry tf up and make the models so there’s no need for a third party to outdo them
@@TopazTiger2000 Or people can not commit IP theft....
@@josephflynn9792 and GW could not be a fragging slow and w0ke company, but here we are, with neither our wishes being granted, the world continues…
@@TopazTiger2000 the difference my wish is for people to follow the law and your's is for other people to do what you think they should
@@josephflynn9792 hardly. My wish is that GW get their shit in order and make product so superior that it’s not worth attempting to copy. People are always gonna break rules, you can’t control that, only react to it, and GW is, but could also prevent it by just actually being superior instead of trying to Apple Workshop.
Im so thankful you put this out. As a 3d printer, I saw this guy crossing the line and knowingly doing so. He cried wolf, expecting sympathy and has gotten it somewhat, however this was theft.
ETA: He also alledgedly was selling printed models for 2/3s the price GW was for the models he ripped on Etsy.
Please understand that I didn’t sell anything through Etsy, eBay, FB Marketplace, etc. I didn’t sell any prints whatsoever. I don’t know how this rumor got started, or why.
@@EmanGameplay there were a couple of videos that stated you did so. My apologies for falling for the rage bait.
EmanG did nothing wrong, he took files from a game and made them printable and available, it's fair use.
The patreon is the issue.
@@felipearias5622 He did do wrong because they are physical goods that GW sells. As North points out, the models are the big earners for GW. It is not fair use to take the EXACT model sculpts (ripped from a game or otherwise) and giving them away for free. Had he downloaded them, edited them by 15 percent or more, then uploaded them you would be correct as they are not the original model. He could claim they were models inspired by the original. If what you say is true, then ripping music from games and the like also would be fair use yet it is not.
I mean, whatever the red line in terms of IP protection is, it was crossed here; It's literally stealing the exact models of a video game and monetizing their distribution. Then he ignored them before they escalated the issue. Nvmd the fact that he earns big time off of it. If they come after anyone who made facsimilies or proxies, that's a different issue
Now that the precedent has been set, can someone please finally prod Michael Moorcock into forcing GW to remove all use of and references to Chaos in all their work once and for all? He's been far too tolerant of them over the past 40 years given the open and shut outright IP theft.
If I remember my history correctly GW stole Chaos from Old D&D, GW was making Chaos minis for that game before Warhammer existed.
It was Gary Gygax and/or Dave Arneson that got it from Moorcock.
@@carysage It doesn't really matter where they stole it from, the fact it is a 1:1 lift that would never survive even the most minimal of scrutiny is infuriating to see. At a bare minimum they'd need to never refer to it as chaos ever again, change all its iconography in all material, and change its nature which would basically change everything about it, it would be the most destructive thing to ever happen to the setting.
And I want Moorcock to get off his arse and finally do it.
@@ZontarDow He probably never will since it is free advertising. I think he's a great fantasy author but how many of us would honestly know his name in 2024 without the Warhammer connections?
@@carysage Quite a few, actually, since it's pretty rare to find anyone who discovered his stuff via Warhammer, most these days who don't do it through someone telling them about it or finding one of the comics do so from people talking about the fact Witcher plagiarised the hell out of it.
Remember seeing these years ago, printed a few myself as a big fan of TW: Warhammer.
There's little to no money lost to GW as these were mainly Old World models that cant be bought for what was until recently an unsupported game. Unless I'm wrong and GW now have Kholek Suneater models available to buy?
And I never paid for these as they were free unsupported on cults. If you've ever used a 3d Printer you'll be able to support models.
Maybe not the best example as beastmen are due to be re-released for Old World and Kholek will probably come back (for a very high price). But for many other lords and heros featured in TWW, the chances of GW bringing them back is non-existant. GW are allowing this gap in the market by refusing to enter it with STL's for their obsolete back catalogue themselves. Im not sure their usual blunt strong arm tactics are going to work here, huge backlash potential.
I'm pretty sure Creative Assembly could have sued as well since he reverse engineered videogame assets they created, used them improperly outside of the game environment and even charge for them. They went easy by staying out of it in my opinion, or else he would face Creative Assembly-Sega-Games Workshop combined.
What irks me is the fact chaos could be nuked from all GW properties if but one man files a CnD with GW, and Disney would do a pretty big number on the Nids doing the same.
The issue with chaos isn't that it's a ripoff, its very name and iconography are 1:1 copies, a bizarre holdout from that period in the 80s where they'd straight up steal stuff.
total nonsense
@@magunra3k Yes the fact he refuses to file a simple CnD is.
@@ZontarDow I was referring to the bollocks you had written, because it is total nonsense, nobody is filing against GW because nobody would have a legal leg to stand on.
@magunra3k chaos both in its name, what it does and it's iconography where 1:1 rips from Elrich back when HW ripped others off wholesale, but unlike using American movie posters as box art this particular case of blatant plagiarism was never fixed.
You might personally hate that fact, but that doesn't diminish it.
@@ZontarDow total bollocks again, Chaos was borrowed by Moorcock for Elric and is not his creation. but hey its a better yarn if it involves hating GW isnt it?.
there isnt an original fantasy or scifi story out there, all of them borrow, are influenced or copy from other works, art, folk lore, myth, history but that isnt the same as Plagiarism or IP theft.
I understand your criticisms, and I think _most_ of them are fair. A lot of people are making assumptions that I lied and misconstrued things, but I didn't. I followed what my attorney recommended to say. Even now, many are accusing me of lying and I have no clue what they think the lie is. I wasn't seeking a payday to cash in on controversy. I was out of options, as the only alternative was total bankruptcy. I've already spoken to a separate bankruptcy attorney about this, and at my age, that's a financial death sentence.
Still, thank you for your coverage, as its more balanced than most.
I don’t care for his ad hominem attacks on you but treats a corporate conglomeration in the same story like.l Underage victim of abuse.
I mean, they literally copied the 8-pointed Chaos symbol from Michael Moorcock
It's true and moorcock calls them out for it every time but it's up to him to take gw to court not right but it is what it is
@@crusibexand since he didn’t protect his IP, GW would probably win the case at this point. Which is EXACTLY WHY GW takes action when they need to
When I'm in a shameless theft competition and my opponent is a British businessman
I understand GW actions but they are just delaying the inevitable. Let's just say that this guy's biggest mistake was not being Chinese. 😉
You're dead right in that it's entirely GWs right to go after someone who has used 3d models that come directly from one of their digital games insofar as the models were made by artists working with their IP. My concern though is where does it stop? These models in the case were made using their direct digital works - that's really hard to deny - but is GW going to stop there? What about completely original models that resemble their IP but have not been sourced from digital works they can lay claim to? So if something looks a bit like a futuristic rank and file human soldier with a bit of a WW1 aesthetic like a gas mask and helmet? Or a metal robot skeleton with a bit of an ancient Egyptian aesthetic? Entirely original models just with the flavour of GW's intellectual property... because their reputation for greed and a desire make the entire hobby about feeding their shareholders makes me worry this is a dangerous situation potentially for anyone making models for 3d printing.
It's fair for them to take this guy to court, but where will they stop? I don't really want to hazard a guess, but erring on the side of greed has been their MO for a long time now.
GW didnt even go to a civil court. So they did not bring out the big guns. Thinking that GW will now sue every miniature designer left right and center is just pure paranoia.
The only slippery slope here is those who are also doing the same - ripping straight from the game. There are full blown studios that make knock off games workshop models that make thousands of dollars a month. That's not the issue. GW knows this , that's why they don't allow non-offical models at tournaments
I think the best thing GW could do to make sure that people are buying from them and not other sources is to A) release the models they know people are waiting to buy (old world fractions for example) so we CAN buy things from GW, B) concider lowering their prices a bit, and C) releasing some models that dont have that many parts. Not everyone is good at, or enjoy, putting that much time and effort even before gettiing to paint the miniatures.
Good video! This is the first video of this that I thought was objective. I agree on what you say.
GW has acted according to the law, but as you said they might have overreacted.
As far as I'm aware I don't recall emperor text to speech receiving any legal documents from GW. I do remember the creator stopped when GW was sending letters to animators to recruit them. I believe that in general emperor text to speech would have been safe covered under satire.
Problem is while the script was satirical and original, the characters and setting were straight from 40k. It wouldn't be covered under Fair Use. Alpha stopped because he knew sooner or later he'd get hit with CD's.
@@Grimangell135 Keeo on mind he said he'd stop because he was worried, then would go on to release the last episode anyway. So couldn't have been that scared
@@ThesecretL pretty sure that wasn't intended to be the actual final episode.
It's basically trickled out that Alpha was getting bored of TTS, running out of ideas and wanted to pivot. He managed to use the IP change letter as a way to leave the franchise behind while being the victim and not pissing off his fanbase.
Yeah, but, those Total War: Warhammer III models are awesome, so it's your civic duty to print them 🙂
I don't know if more has come out about Emperor TTS behind the scenes, all I remember hearing was Alfa shut it down of his own accord, not from threats made by GW. He did it in fear of GW coming at him, his team and his family, not that they actively were coming at them.
They never once went after TTS. He reciveved no letters from GW.
He used their change in legal wording when they launched their Animation channel and added Video/Animation to their IP protections to kick up a fuss. A number of creators contacted GW and asked what it meant for their videos and their channels, the vast majority of which were "You're fine, you're covered under fair use". The only one I know that did receive letters was the guy behind "Astartes" who he himself admitted, was sailing close to the sun, creating something within the 40k universe with the serial numbers filed off and was grateful to GW for letting him finish the project before he joined them.
Alfa was rumoured to be getting tired of doing TTS and used this as an excuse to pivot away from the show without pissing off his fanbase and managing to play the victim (his Patreon donations actually increased after he stopped).
Unfortunately, while suing this guy feels harsh, this is the internet. If it was a case of "They shut him down" then all that will happen is the next person calls him a chump, and continues to do it themselves. Yes its brutal on him, but yeah, they're making an example and to be honest, even after this, it's probably not gonna stop so screw it, these people deserve everything they get for ignoring the warnings and he evidently ignored MANY of them.
Interesting Video Northern Exile, a lot going on here. On the surface, sure EmanG was rash in how he went about this, and ignoring the legal notices is always an expensive mistake to make, but I am also struck by what he did and why its a huge threat to GW. I hadnt considered ripping the 3D models from games and using them to create STL's to print, but by God, think of the implications. I also think of other implications. GW used its legal might to utterly crush Warhammer fan animations on You tube. Then they started doing their own locked behind the Warhammer + paywall. The result has been the destruction of what was a thriving scene to be replaced by a frankly anemic rate of animations coming from GW. But because of the work involved in making animations and how its something very talented individuals do, GW was able to crush "unauthorised" animations.
When it comes to Total War Warhammer, many of the computer models, especialy for lord and heros, havent been produced by GW in best part of 20 years, and many of the other units, especially the "rare" and "special" choices, were always sold with a "rules tax" making those models cost far more in proportion to similar models in terms of size and materials. The prospect of 3D printers getting hold of models of all of that material and being able to make it themselves outside of GW control: its an existential threat.
However, when they went after animators, only the animators had the material GW wanted blocked and removed, or the ability to make it.
EmanG had 900 patreon subsribers, that means there are already 900 people out there with these files, absolute minimum. All ONE of them has to do is get a VPN and dump the files on somewhere GW cannot do sod all about, like PIRATE BAY, and GW is screwed for all time being able to maintain total commercial control, whether its their IP or not.
In the wake of female custodes debacle, AOS 4 looks to be flopping, worries also about Space Marine 2, GW is already facing heavy hits from pissing its consumers off while it continues to drive prices upwards and makes plans to keep everyone spinning on the Fomo machine. They are becoming very vulnerable to consumer rebellion, and a full on war with the 3D printers, when often they are providing what GW themselves will not at prices people can afford, or a variety of choice far beyond what GW themselves could ever offer, could end up being a very costly thing, that far from making GW more secure, will just highlight their vulnerablities and motivate more and more people to sock em where it hurts.
GW should stop messing about and get its products on the 3D printing market properly, get ahead of and lead the change, secure its own future. Or the day will come that, no matter how wonderful their designs or how good the quality of the plastic, GW will find itself as suddenly irrelevant as previous market giants like Blockbusters have in the past. I dont think the war is worth it, but its up to GW, if its determined to have it, will have to pay the price.
He could have offered to print anything via his patreon. Then that would have been classed as a separate service away from his 3D model sharing side.
Lol. Gw is on a clock here and it's too late. I have some 40k and AoS armies completely 3d scanned in high quality not to mention oop oldhammer minis I can print ad infinitum for pennies. Box of gore-gruntas costs right now 67.5 euros I can print that full box for 2 euros and you won't see the difference (when painted) . What I'm getting at is that 3d scanners will take them down not 3d printers. They became so affordable that they are getting into price levels of consumer 3d printers. In two to four years you will have readily available affordable scanners that will scan your minis flawlessly. I wonder how they will stop that? 3d scanning uses method called photogrammetry which is basically taking a ton of pictures of the object from all angles and making it into 3d model. Are they going to forbid taking pictures of your own models? I don't think so. You don't even need a scanner really because there is a software that turns high res video footage from your phone into 3d models (not suitable for minis yet but it's getting there fast). I live in a country in which law allows me to have copies of things that I own but not to sell them. I also don't play Gw games anymore. I've switched to OPR and never looked back although for me it's still 40k/AoS but without the bad parts (rules). Sorry for my English as it is not my first language and lack of text editing because I'm typing on a phone during my work hours (printers and scanners won't pay for themselves) ;)
from my understanding when i first heard the story he was giving the stl files for minis that were no longer being made for free then it came out that he was ripping the modals from the total war game and effectively selling them. so yeah when i learned that part yes he was stealing at that point
never sold them
@@Nasmr1 not directly but putting the stl files with all the leg work done to print and build the modals from the total war game behind his patreon to backers works like pachinko in Japan you are only gambling for balls but if you go to a guy that "buys" the balls you can cash out same here you are "buying/backing" for a fee to have all the work done to print them now. if he did not have the paywall and just had it all for free including all the leg work done to print and build gray area sure but as is he was not outright selling it but
@@matthewdougherty1159 he never sold anything nor put models behind patreon
The models were on cults for free
The patreon was for tech support and files of literal support beams to add to the models
@@Nasmr1 "The patreon was for tech support and files of literal support beams to add to the models" this was his attempt at the 2 step of separation step 1 go get The models that are on cults for free step 2 pay/back The patreon to get the rest of the support beams to add to the models that without you could not print unless you know how to use a 3d printer and wasted material to make your own support beams to add to the models sadly it is like Nintendo going after emulators sites
@@matthewdougherty1159 You don't need them to print. You can just auto support or add your own which are super easy.
You have zero clue on the 3d printing process...
I have left GW since leviathan. This company is just evil and greedy. No matter how great their product is, its not an excuse to treat clients and fans like they do. I will never give them even one more penny.
I'd heard about this case, but didn't know he'd ignored an initial C&D. What a fool.
Luckily, i saw the minis, thought 'those won't last' and downloaded the minis i wanted
I walked away from GW when they went after the brick-and-mortar stores, they have screwed their player base over for far too long, I myself hope they go the way of the Dodo bird.
This is about the only time I'll ever take GW's side because this was blatant IP theft. Creative Assembly is usually pretty lenient in using their models that their artists make to make add-on mods and stuff for their games using their assets and code (Total War: Three Kingdoms had a crazy modding scene where people did this all the time and made some impressive stuff), but I'm surprised that they didn't go after him for this, too. It's also super disrespectful to the 3D artists who put in the work on them, especially since most of them in the TW franchise are still active and making products. They put their models up on display on their ArtStation accounts and stuff, so I view this as just another form of art theft. I hate it because it's guys like that that draw the attention to people like the Proxy makers and actively make them a bigger target than they already are. I get the whole printing OOP models for personal use and maybe sharing them with friends or people who ask for them, but there comes a time when you have to consider if what you're doing could potentially affect other people in your sphere NOT actively committing IP theft, too. He should definitely get sued, but I would say that they should go for the amount that he made off of the Patreon. That, to me, is fair-ish. The legal fees are his own fault for ignoring the letters and what was essentially the chance to walk away with his pockets intact.
I have zero idea why GW has such an issue with fan animations or works in general since it's been proven with franchises like Star Wars - which was sustained for DECADES on a vibrant community that pumps out insane fan works, films, stories, and animations and still is even today and is actively supported by Lucasfilms (not Disney, since it was Lucasfilms that came to SWTheory's defense on the Vader fan film, for reference) - that it can literally keep your franchise alive and leads to a strong community that loves and supports your IP and creates a pool of new ideas that you can pull from for material. They just have to take a page from Lucasfilm's book and put out a working guideline like they have where they lay out the do's and don'ts of fan works, like you can't use copyrighted music, reuse parts of the actual films without transforming them in some way, make money off of the projects, and a handful of other basic restrictions. They'd still retain control over their IP without being psychotic. But that makes actual sense, so of course they won't.
When did Griffith get 8 nipples in Beserk?
So hypothetically if someone were to make scratchbuild building videos on CZcams and the models they were building looked a lot like models from Warhammer, keeping in mind that these models are not being sold, it just free videos on CZcams which might be considered a tutorial on how to make wargaming models out of trash and crafts supplies. Would GW be able to legally tell them to stop or take them to court? I occasionally see scratchbuilding tutorials for ork vehicles so I just wondered.
I doubt that no as they are models they do not sell.
Didnt he know that only GW is allowed to jack from other franchises?...
Thanks for the shout out, I am following this case closely.
GW is the ultimate greedy company that screws it's "fans" so hard it's absurd. Not simply the mark-up on cheap platic models, just look at recent rules changes that made a TON of legitimately bought GW product utterly WORTHLESS, thousands of pounds worth straight down the crapper! I feel you're morally and ethically OBLIGATED to steal these evil scum into bankruptcy.
Im surprised GW is only going after him, if you know the key phrase you can find scans of most legit grimdark sculpts. I guess once GW find out they are going to be very busy.
I'll be contrarian and try to steel man EmanG. I don't see the problem here, at the end of the day this doesn't effect GW anymore than "Aztec lizard warrior" or "Demon worshipping warrior" on Cults3D does.
1. It doesn't effect Total War Warhammer because you can't play it without the computer game and it plays entirely differently than a tabletop game.
2. It doesn't effect model sales anymore than any other proxy or look alike because while yes, it is recognizably "Warhammer" the model lines look significantly different from the video game models. If you brought the 3D printed models to a tournament any organizer or player who has more than a few years experience would instantly recognize them as not GW models and instead as 3D prints.
I am fully on GW's side with this one, cut & dry. As one who buys prints off of Etsy often, I commonly came across Eman's products, and every time I saw them, I knew that his days were numbered. Other brands & people such as StationForge, Atlan Forge, Papsikels, Ghamak, Archvillain Games, or Gear Guts, they all know how to play the game. You can tell what their models are with reference to Warhammer, but they are still uniquely their models. Eman's just look straight out of Total War, right down to the iconography of the chaos gods, which is the most damning evidence against him.
It was awesome to have actual decent looking Skaven ratgunners & warpthrowers while it lasted, but this was inevitable. I'm only surprised it took GW this long to make a hit against him.
His files aren't gone, many of us still have them and are willing to reupload em to online repositories.
I know for one am going to open a new cults acct just to reupload EmanGs rips.
I would love a video of this case and compare it to the company they took to court years ago and tried copyright words like pauldrons. I think it was chapter house?
If GW does not legally defend their IP they are creating a legal precedent that others can use to do the same. It's an important principle that businesses are obliged to use to - particularly those that are founded on creative/design output.
I have only bought 3 products from GW since they told us we can’t play in store anymore back in the late 2000’s this just reinforces why I shouldn’t buy anything from GW in the future.
7k a month gives around 4-5 month drop for him. GW are going for him as he was not remorseful and knew full well what he was doing was wrong, he kept going when the c&d orders were sent to him, it is also very important to protect their IPs.
They are probably making him sting because he has said about going for different IPs, and is again showing that he does not care about copyright law.
Only found your channel the other night and I love it. I find myself getting angry cos I totally disagree with what you are saying, then in the next breath agreeing with you. A good sign of a well balanced argument.
A direct rip off of polygons I can get, guilty, but targeting sculptors modelling a 'very similar' models from scratch is a whole different ball game. GW have failed many times on this front and they can go do one for trying to stifle other peoples creativity. I am a massive fan of 3d printing and to me it is a huge part of my hobby, I print, I paint, I put it on a shelf to gather dust and annoy the wife. I haven't bought a physical model in about 5 or 6 years and have a digital pile of shame I cant get through in my life time. I can however print 100 orcs for the same amount of money as a box of 20 from GW and be able to give each one the exact heads hands or weapons I want. I really believe GW are on a losing battle trying to fight the independent sculptor and home printer. Ten quid for 30-50 models, 10-20 pence per print, even if you factor in £150 for a decent mid range printer you are saving money after 1 army.
There are so many other games and model creators out there, I've not bought any GW products other than a couple of pots of paint in years, and I dont think I will.
end of the day GW just needs to go out of business it is a morally bankrupt company that over the years have proven that they hate the fans and wish we will just leave
I am not familiar with this case but work with copyright (music).
IF someone is making money on the infrigement it is a crystal clear case. I do think one should warn first and offer a peaceful sollution but if they keep selling it is no go.
So he was making 3D models of sprites from a video game and not even pirating GW miniatures? Ie: selling something they don't even sell themselves?
To my knowledge, GW don't sell 3d files. This dude had to create his own 3d files. It's what I'd call creation. it's a reproduction, true. but companies copy each other all the time with different names.
GW tried to copyright the words Space Marine & Warhammer years ago and failed. That shows how power hungry they are.
Don’t forget they tried to copyright pauldrons
@@logangant7732and axe and sword and halberd and pretty much any word in a historical documentary about ancient warfare.
unfortunately, i can't argue against GW's response. having things on Patreon, and saying 'it's fair use because they're also on cults for free' is illegal. there needs to be a harsh lesson. such a lesson is in the works it seems.
I’m against IP and patent laws. They are not moral laws. It’s subjective philosophically if they are good or bad for our society. They are used mostly against creativity. The governments do have the right to take any patent from you and say national security and IP laws are used by conglomerates to have further control on profit and cultural creation. DEI and ESG are an example how IPs can be used for social engineering.School made you think working with others is cheating when it’s cooperation. If someone doesn’t agree that’s okay but one must accept laws are not about good versus evil. Most laws are not there to do moral good.
This is an open and shut case. GW is well within their rights to do this.
I personally have a problem with GW when they go after content creators. Especially those that bring thousands of people into the lore/hobby.
A very important element that was left out of the consideration is how transformative was emang’s work. Didn’t saw the models. Did he made them different enough to justify fair use? If not, then this is 100% diserved
And worst. By creating a legal precedent, he gave GW the leverage to go after creators who were actually doing this kind of stuff respecting fair use
I was on GW’s side from the start in this one. Double so now I learn he ignored the cease and desist letters.
GW deffinatly in the right to defend thier ip.
But all the hate they are getting is 100% deserved, they have done so much wrong they don't get a gold star for being right about something.
And like north said, GW dosnt need to ruin a man's life because of this, teach him a lesson and move on
I mean, several C&Ds should've been warning enough... Some people just don't learn until they actually face the consequences. In this instance, standing in court. I'd rather take a cheap lesson than an expensive one.
@Pinginging agreed, guy deffinatly shit the bed on the legal side of things, he was warned and decided to ignore it.
But I deffinatly am solidified in the opinion that gw is really messing up with how they are treating the situation.
They have brought so much hate on themselves on how they treat fans that a little kindness would have gone a long way
I stopped buying warhammer a long time ago when they increased the prices last year and I'm from Australia where we already pay way more than people in the UK and US
The problem with IP in general. Is any idea unique? Not really. We borrow from our past and present. GW did not invent Orcs. GW did not invent Gundam. GW did not invent demons. GW Tanks and weapons are modeled after existing tanks and weapons. GW took these ideas, gave them a zany name and called it IP. Also this gets away from IP and into monopolistic practices.
30K is a tiny amount, it won't bankrupt anybody, unpleasant, but not life ruining in the long term. It's an open and shut case... guy's been an idiot, it's clear infrindgement and ignoring the C&Ds forced GWs hand into legal action. The point for GW is to been seen to take action, so others don't think it's OK to do similar. You must actively protect your IP, copyrights etc. or lose your rights to them. If you let infrindgement just get away with it and ignore it, then you are, by default, accepting the IP is in the public domain and, as such, not actually IP anymore. Where plagiarism starts and 'influence' or 'inspiration' end is a grey area. All creatives have their influences... but that isn't stealing, so the 'what-about'-ism counter-arguments holds little water. This defo was IP theft, but cheaper for all to settle out of court that keep paying lawyers.
The claimant wanted $360,000 in damages when the claims were filed, hence the need to file for bankruptcy if they went through.
Imma just reupload EmanGs files on cults, they can get fucked and idc about their lawsuits, they don't scare me.
There's a few conscequences that'll happen if you or anyone else does this.
1. The designs would be linked back to EMG, regardless of who uploaded them. They would argue he was doing this by proxy, causing more claims against him and nullifying the settlement.
2. You say you're not afraid of their lawsuits, yet I would beg to differ when a court officer is at your door arresting you because you failed to pay the cost.
3. The continuation of uploading EXACT files of GW products is what the issue is. Even if it is for free, they are exact replicas which does effect their bottom line ergo they can prove damages.
Bottom line is you're caysing more harm than good being a freedom fighter in this regard. The best way to fight them is to buy from other creators who have either altered the designs to be in line with fair use or original pieces inspired by GW stock.
@@Grimangell135 well fuck, then I won't I guess lmao
@@Grimangell135 Its easy to me anonymous, anyone can re-rip the 3d files is very easy to do, but there is no need they are out there and its impossible to remove them. Yes they could be removed from Cults and other sites like this but telegram, bit torrents, newsgroups, not gonna happen.
But I totally agree, buy from other creators, the models are better and cheaper and you are supporting the independent creator. I hide my patreon and MMF accounts from the wife 🙂
He begins pleading with them saying I wont do it again I'll sign anything AFTER gw gave him ample opportunity to stop his shit he didn't he ignored them so he now has the consequences.
doesn't matter how much money GW has or how much they make he fucked around and is now finding out.
and if they do back down then the next clown will expect the exact same and they will have shown precedence in backing down so the courts would use this case as reference.
also you reference TTS a few times GW i don't think went after him i think he went down a different road when they opened their own studio.
Relocate your operations to a jurisdiction where GW get told to pound sand and carry on. Simple as.
I won't argue about GW's prices being insane, they absolutely have the right to protect their IP. I could see them turning a blind eye to those who create pieces that go to enhance the models people buy from GW. But when you literally copy the property owned by the company, that is a problem
I don’t like GW’s business practices nor do I like how the company is staffed by people who hate me so when I see that a Chinese company is selling copies of their model kits, literally the plastic sprues for 1/3 of the price, I’m overjoyed at purchasing that and that GW doesn’t get my money 😂
Can I just say that intro kicked arse?
Can i just say that there is shit in my arse?
As far as I'm aware, 40kTTS never got a cease and desist. Bruva just didn't want to do it anymore and used the excuse that they MIGHT shut them down to just stop doing it
Inaccurate. He quit because GW was unvieling Warhammer plus with Warhammer TV. They realized all the video creators cropping up to be a big scene, so they created their own app and started recruiting animators. If the animators didnt join, they were told to cease working on their projects. Alfa didnt want that and knew what was going to happen even if it didnt happen right away.
I remember coming across those warhammer STLs a while ago and thought they were suspiciously close to the 3d models in total war warhammer.
While this is clearly justified, the frustration comes from the knowledge that GW will never address the fact they have created the environment where people want to do this, want to buy from other sources.
I have to agree with you. I do agree you need to protect your IP fair but as you say they are out to set an example, all they are doing is making this guy a martyr. This reminds me of what Nintendo did to that guy in Canada where he cracked and done something so you could download games for the switch, the guy went to jail for a few years and he need to give Nintendo 20% of his Gross wage of any job he gets for life( from what I have heard) its scary crap what big corps can do to people.
This guy just learnt his actions have consequences. He had a chance to stop and he didnt. This is on him 100%
North completely agree with your comment, yes they should protect their stuff but to put a man into financial ruin is just pathetic. They acting like an enforcer but then also a bully.
Yeah, no matter what you think of GW as a company they have a legal right to do this. If the guy is literally ripping the 3d files from a licensed game then offering those for print that is illegal. This is not just a person creating their own "look alike" models for print this is presented as a case of using models created by another entity and legally owned by that entity.
Indeed the problem is the guy is using some kind of technicality that allow him to do this.
🥾🥾🥾🥾👅👅👅👅
Trademarks are okay. Intellectual Property is an idiotic concept that makes everything needlessly worse.
Griffith and Fulgrim are the same? Bit of a stretch no? Well, I didn't think so. Anyway, GW has a right to, but it's the borderline hypocrisy and heavy-handedness of it that looks bad on them. I mean this is the company that tried to trademark pauldrons after all! Also, could someone explain to me why making a model based on something from a computer game is bad when you don't make said model yourself? There is pleatly of places selling close to but not quite models players can use. Also anyone remember the time WD mag showed you how to make a Baneblade out of cardboard? To me, this sounds like just hating a penny rolling out the door.
" Choose your enemies well "
- Klingon Art of War
You dont need to have any special skills to use auto supports on a slicer program. Thus your comment about his support beeing central is totaly biased.
In the video you say GW lifted from other works to make what they created. You need to put those they live sun glasses on.
He replicated images from a game. Yes, illegal. But he didn't make another computer game, if anything he enhanced the environment they work in by making it more accessible. They should employ him not attack him
In a digital age of internet anonymity and worldwide availability GW will never ever stop this. As you say their efforts will only reduce people's opinion of them.
It is better to die for the 3D Print Emperor, than to live for GW.
I still haven't forgiven them for alfabusa or chapter house
You went.
On and read about the accusatory documentation.And filing if you really are about properly presenting both sides.I would expect that you would follow up this video with a review of the following document
czcams.com/video/AXwkGFKJt2Q/video.htmlsi=xT8niTon0rzzGK3K
If you have trademarks/copyrights you HAVE to enforce IP theft or you will lose your rights to your own IP.. 7k a month for 'some time' - 30k settlement seems pretty fuckin reasonable, in theory they could claim back ALL the money that he made
The claimant wanted $360,000 in damages when the claims were filed.
Another well thought out and balanced piece. Thank you Northern Exile
I don't like what this guy did as it's a D**k move and a giant middle finger to who owns the originals.
However... he did it to GW. One of the few companys who did so much vilainouse stuff that they deserve to be classified as such. And every action that hurts the vilain is atleast somewhat heroic.
This guy just moved on to another IP. He’s now selling Helldivers 2 models.
Dose he just like getting sued or something
Evidence?
Giving it away for free undercuts Games Workshop sales of their product so he will be liable for damages.
Games workshop; regardless of everyone’s preferences or hatred for them, have the right to defend their rights to intellectual property, I didn’t realise at first they sent multiple cease and desists, but now I do know that, it makes it clear, GW are right to do this, it sucks but it was; IMO, the guys own fault for either not understanding the situation they could possibly get into.
Side note: as the guy essentially extracted the 3d models from TWW; shouldn’t CA be involved also, as I’m sure they would have some sort of IP right protections for making them alongside GW. If so he dug himself a bit of a hole to say the least.
@@Scruffynerfherder10 The baffling thing is that in their claim, they were saying that they only infringed against the models and IP, not against the game.
The TWW models do not match the GW models, and they are not called the same as the IP which has had a variety of different appearances. CA should be the ones bringing the suit, not GW.
I believe that CA have a license to make and sell the game Total War Warhammer, but the actual models in the game are based on GW models and so they technically belong to GW and are GW's to protect in terms of IP.
All I’m hearing is that GW believes in gatekeeping and we’re the ones being kept from them. Womp womp
I thought that the Flashgitz team was the ones being sued after that stupid animation involving Black Templars going after Bluey characters
Lmao it was well funny. Maybe youre just not that fun to be around?
@@flavzz9254Was them behind the spacw hulk animation too? That one was awesome in parts(only later realized they parodied the first 2 missions of space hulk after playing it).
He ignored their request to stop so they ignored his request stop the legal action.
I don’t see GW in the wrong on this. Maybe they were too harsh but since he ignored them it’s asking for it, Also I believe im the interview he said it was 30k per.
The claimant wanted $360,000 in damages when the claims were filed, hence the need to file for bankruptcy if they went through.
@@EmanGameplay well I mean if profit was made off of their IP and they sent a cease and desist that was ignored that’s kinda on the person who ignored it IMO. It sucks but I mean common sense should tell people to be smarter.
@@Arceolis I understand.
Well every faction of 40k is just a flavour of the something that already existed. There are new things under the sun.
Supports are super simple to add, one button click..he's got no leg to stand on in court
Games workshop has throughout the years attacked and bullied anybody. They felt threatened them. She's the front companies out of business. They from other people into the ground. This is their company policy so if anybody does anything they think is threatening them they will do everything in their power to destroy them
Games workshop want to hurt 3d printing because its showing you how lazy and awful the current team actually is a guy literally taking files from a game and making them with a 3d printer and they look great and add characters GW is too lazy and too greedy to give to players I honestly dont get how they can cry when they have killed off old world so none of the things he sells would be applicable in the current age of sigmar games
just for their pricing fuck gw this guy should be left alone
Replace 3D prints with 'consultation',, your thoughts ?
Almost certainly IP theft, but, I mean... hopefully someone's got the files backed up somewhere for research purposes
Given the wat they treated Arch tells me all I need to know about how GW goes about protecting their IP. being correct does not mean you are not a POS. Maybe people would not 3d print their stuff if they didn't commit highway robbery against your customers. I agree they have a right to protect their IP. This is not a One off for GW when it cones to being predatory... I think EmanG wad saying he was printing models that are out of print (at least on side scrollers) which is not an excuse but it does make me question where they came up with the amout for damages. IDK dude was wrong with how he went about it but GW is totally predatory.
Man the dude ripped assets from total war and was profiting off it. He ignored their cease and desist. I know hating GW is cool but this guy deserved it.
@@Goober2289 he deserves a multi million dollar company trying to bankrupt him and ruin his life? He was printing models thay GW was not even printing themselves (according to what he said on side scrollers) he was dumb yes, he totally should have listened to the cease and desist, but people would not be buying his models if GW was not robbing their customers with the cost of their models. I'm not saying he was right, he should have stopped when he got the cease and desist letters, it was dumb, people were paying for his models because GW is making them too expensive. Two things can be true at the same time. He can be wrong and GW can be predatory.
@@smoore6461 mate the guy knew what he was doing, i heard him talk on a small podcast about this, his attitude was basically i don't give a shit until things got serious. There are consequences to your actions and sometimes people need to find that out. GW making things too expensive has no bearing on him literally stealing assets from their licensed game and profiting off them. I will not defend someone who knew what they were doing was illegal and then cries about the consequences.
@Goober2289 I never said what he was doing was legal or smart, I said people would not buy the m if GW was not ripping off their customers with predatory prices. And that a multi-million dollar company bankrupting someone over models they were not even making looks like they are the villains, not the heros or the aggrieved party. All i have heard from him was what he said on side scrollers. That alone was enough to say he broke the law and should be held to account for that. I just dont believe GW was SO damaged by his actions they need to bankrupt him. If he was printing them out of business, then fine, but he was, according to side scrollers printing models, they don't even print themselves. So punish him for breaking the law, of course, but I'm not going to Stan fot a mega corp that was not really all that damage and us crying about how badly they were done when thry have done the same thing with people making free fan movies and people like arch who thry just don't like. Yes, the dude broke the law and needs to be held to account. He should clearly pay the fot real damages he caused GW. I don't have much sympathy for a company that makes what they do crying about being so financially hurt. I have never said the guy was not an b idiot and didn't break any law. Judt that GW is predatory and is playing the "oh poor us victim." Oh, and I have no horse in thr race, I am into warhammef 40k for the lore, I don't build or paint or play. I just know GW prices, according to most I know, are highway robbery already. You are right, though the dude broke the law and should suffer some consequences for that absolutely.. some reasonable consequence under the law.
GW sells a premium product, are you going after Rolls Royce or Ferrari for the price of their cars? No because they are premium products, there is a second hand market if you want to pay less or just don't participate. This is not predatory pricing, that is where companies raise the price of things you need.
The arch situation was a consequence of his own behaviour, you have the right to believe and say what you like you also have to deal with the consequences of that.
Problem is if you don’t protect your ip you can lose it
Biit confused here, you mention that GW should just get the 30k, take the win and leave, but the lawsuit was to get the maximum $30k, so is that not what they have done? Based on the numbers of 900 x $8 per month for 2 years he would have made $172,800 so could easily cover the $30k (I would imagine that his subscribers were not at this level for the full 2 years, so he probably made a lot less than this), but again if the max they could claim is $30k, how have they put him in financial ruin. I assume there is more to this that was maybe not covered in the video, but based on the details provided I fail to see the criticism of GW for not just taking the $30k when it sounds like that's all they got. If there were massive legal fee's from him fighting it, then again he has been stupid in not just taking the hit in the first place, but I don't see how you can blame GW for that if it was his decision to fight it.
As for the rest I agree, GW have the right as any creator does, to go after those who rip their stuff and try to profit off it in the way he did. There are plenty of 3D modeler's who create similar products that can be used as proxies without them being an exact copy and GW can't touch them as far as I understand. The line that GW crossed previously was when they tried to shut down the CZcams creators who were helping marketing GW IP for them, going after those individuals made no sense to me.
The claimant wanted $360,000 in damages when the claims were filed.
I don't buy anything from Games Wokeshop so moot point to me.
I am more of the IF you stop making X after xyz time it becomes OPENDOMAIN in ANY form
The only thing that matters is what the law states. If the models are still under copyright, then they are still under copyright regardless of when last printed.
From what I found these are not something like a shaven band. These are the higher price tag models. Skarbrand, belakor, keepers of secrets, great unclean ones, and angron. It sucks that gw bankrupted this guy. But he fucked up simple as. Gw gave the chance and the fact people are asking for them on reddit doesn't look good either so fafo applies here.
Also I heard he pushed into fantasy battles because it was a defunct game system. And pulled the files as the rumors of the old world hit a fever pitch of rumors of a grand reveal if gw openly said never coming back, won't come back it's fully dead that's one thing but there was a chance from gw it was coming back it is something you shouldn't fuck around with.
Down with the CZcams God's, thumbs up for north! Lol