Yamaha, I didn’t see this coming...
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- čas přidán 2. 09. 2023
- ✅ N-S2000A: bit.ly/45xUpqr
✅ Safe and Sound: bit.ly/2WuEf0h
👉🏻 Soundclips of these speakers can be found in this video: Finally! The ONLY Amp We Need?
• Finally! The ONLY Amp ...
In this video, we take a look at the Yamaha N-S2000A. We explore its features, and see if it's the right speaker for you.
After watching this video, you'll have a better understanding of the 2000 and whether it's the right choice for your needs.
💎💎💎 Speakers reviewed and recommend! 💎💎💎
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My wife took me to Yamaha's Innovation Road museum in Hamamatsu, Japan. It is primarily about their world's largest musical instrument business but they feature some of their speaker models in displays. One abundantly clear message is their work in resonances in wood, and brass. The trucker who delivered our NS-5000's in Nevada thought they were musical instruments because that's what the paperwork said. They are not meant for triode amps, or small spaces.
$8K is a lot of money so audition them from your home distance. And make the shop connect them to something more powerful than their matching components. Xylon is an aramid fiber they fine tuned to get away from the toxic, difficult to form beryllium they used in hundreds of thousands of NS-1000 tweeters in pro audio. Beryllium remains in use in many other speaker brands, for that expensive, anachronistic vibe.
Oh, yesssss, for many years as a die-hard Yamaha fan my favorite brand is back, i know the sound of NS-5000
Now i have to test these speakers to give my feedback.
Very informative review, Ron. The only thing I would I have also liked to know is your impressions with amp matching on these… what worked well and what didn’t.
Very entertaining! I loved how you kept us interested and intrigued the whole way through. A very well constructed review! Thanks Ron.
Hey thanks Mike!
@@Newrecordday2013 I would love to see you review some Bowers And Wilkins Service speakers one day I would very much like to see your feedback on them
Love your work Ron Nice review Thanks Chief 😉👍
Thanks Ron, for so eloquently expressing so much detail in your analysis of and experience with these speakers. It was a very insightful review. Wish I could own them. I unfortunately can't see that happening any time soon. Thanks again.
Fantastic review and exceptional data being shared, really enjoying the content here.
Thank you.
Hey thanks!
Haven't heard these ones yet... But a pal here in Bonnie Scotland runs the NS-3000 standmounts (changing from Wilson TuneTots to Gryphon Mojos to Yamaha) and they are absolutely amazing. He runs them with a big Bryston power amp and they really do seem to cover all the bases...
Would love to hear these new floorstanders sometime🍻
Thanks Ron, nice work. I love to hear them some day. Associated gear?
Watched until the end. I've been watching NRD for a few years now and man, you're getting good at your craft! Keep trudging to 100k and beyond!
Appreciate you man!
From the picture you show, the "huge" inductor coils they used are laminated metal core. The yellow & black cap is a Bennic which is pretty basic. The Mundorf M-Cap are quite good. And the smaller gauge air core is fine.
Also I appreciate an audiophile site that is willing to do measurements. Kudos.
Awesome video! Ron, how do these Yamaha speakers compare to Focal speakers with everything you said about these?
Very informative review. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Love the hat! Thank you for time and effort all these years! Your videos take me to my happy place! 😃😂😂😂
Thanks man!
I wish Yamaha would refresh their entire budget line up to the A-S801. It's been creeping towards 10 years since they came out and it would be nice to not only see a big refresh on the entire range, but also some more affordable speaker options from them.
I am just worried that they’ll just put a different faceplate and a newer DAC and increase the prices by 50%.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q Yeah, that's definitely a possibility for them. Hopefully not but we'll see. I'd like to see HDMI utilized, maybe a little bit newer DAC but maybe a dual mono design, maybe a slightly bigger power supply, wifi/Ethernet connection, newest Bluetooth (just because), and personally, I'd like to see knobs for the tone controls so you can turn them and they still look normal instead of the vertical knobs that look kinda funny when you have them all turned different ways.
@@02honeydew Yamaha RN1000A? Check it out.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q Good call, I hadn't heard of either of these. I saw the RN2000 but didn't realize they put out two lower models. Thanks for the heads up.
@@02honeydew Yeah it’s like 1600€ for the RN1000A VS 1000€ for the AS 801. Marantz, NAD & Technics all sell similar amps around the same price. I feel like you’re paying so much for the eARC and streamer.
Hi Ron,
Cheers for the review.
Have you had the chance to listen to Klipsch RF7 III's? Do you have ny thoughts on them?
Interesting review. Thanks for sharing.
You are welcome
SPRUCE! 💎My Yamaha NS-1200 use spruce for the woofers, and cotton for the domes. Some of the most enjoyable speakers I've ever heard.
looks like my preferred house curve with a little more bass bump
For $8,000.00, I sure hope they sound very good, if not excellent.
Great review!
Thanks!
thank you for a great video
And compared with the Q Concept 50, which do you prefer?
Hello teacher! how are you? I'm just starting out in the audiophile world and I need some recommendations if you don't mind. I have a medium 15M2 living room. And among the amplifiers that I saw and can access as a mortal are the Marantz pm6007, Yamaha s301 and the Nad316BEE V2 and speakers like the Klipsch RP500 MKII, Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 and Sony SSCS5. What combinations can you recommend if you are so kind? greetings from Argentina!
I have not seen many reviews of the bookshelf versions ns800a or ns600a. This is a very interesting line.
i can't hear above 12khz, so they should be fine.
That sucks bro.
That’s true with a lot of people. Most people would be surprised how poor their hearing is.
I think these speakers will work absolutely great with zero toe in. You get an even wider soundstage and imaging wont be affected much, if any, at all. The way that 'BBC Dip' was implemented is great, a very linear 2db dip from 1khz to 3khz, and that plateau from 6khz - 12khz is also well thought out. I doubt many will hear that 13khz spike as it is quite narrow and not many can hear above 13khz. Not much information up there either, just harmonics. I am very interested to give this a listen, that FR is something that I very possibly might like. Accurate? Far from it. Fun? Hell yeah.
I agree on all points, I bet these sound great!
too expensive
@@MasterofPlay7 then go buy a cheaper speaker or make your own. As simple as that.
@@MasterofPlay7For you maybe. And got me too really. But that’s certainly not true for everybody. So what’s your point? Just felt like letting us know you’re not well off for some reason?
@@amb3cog it's not that, is not a true reference speakers and they changed lots for the reason
Ron no issues here fir the peak at 15khz.
As one that use a custom curve in my DSP that mimic the equal loudness contour frequency curves.
Then you see that it is little off should be at 10khz instead.
And it is nice that it is voiced like that is my reaction and i believe many many people dont actually wants "flat"!❤🎉
I love the way soft dome midrange drivers sound when done right.
Agreed.
I would love to hear how they compare ro other high end speakers or do they compare to any? Sounds like they may be on an island.
Greetings, killer review !
Though, I have one ask when mesuring a speaker, isn't it best to place the microphone at 1m (as it's the international way of mesuring when you measure sensitivity for example), and point the microphone; as Danny from GR Research and many other people would say; at the acoustic center of the speaker (the exact center between Mid and High Drivers) - like when you place your speakers for your ears to pick it best ?
I really like what Yamaha is doing with these series, that's cool they ended making smaller towers with the same quality and technology as the NS-5000, I'd love to hear them against ATC SCM40's or PMC that are around the same price, for example.
But yeah, if they didn't make it totally accurate, I guess I would prefer ATC's over them though. But the spectral decay of these ones are insanely good, so who knows ?
How do they compare to the all new QUAD REVELA 2 speakers for a lot less money ?...
That massive peak is there to add 'air'.
Ron. I love how you do these reviews. Your deep dive procedures and measurements put you in a class of one that I appreciate more than with any other reviewer. NRD is MUCH appreciated and enjoyed sir!
I appreciate that!
How does this compare to the Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1?
Well, those would sure look slick with my black on black A-S2100, they would sound even better, to my ears at least, if one were to get a tiny ding in it's piano black finish that knocked over 50% off MSRP so as not to make the integrated feel blemished. But I've got boxes, what I don't have is dipoles and those speakers of Clayton's seem mighty tempting. The poor Yamaha hasn't had a real job since I finished building an Elekit 300b 3 or 4 years ago.
In light of the reviewer's comments admitting that when people get older that their high-frequency hearing is diminished, I think all reviewers should publish an audiogram of their own hearing, in addition to a frequency response graph of the speakers they are reviewing.
That’s not a bad idea at all.
If we're to take that route, we'll also be wanting the frequency response of the reviewr's listening room. What we'll end up with is... a big fat jumble of information that will have me tune out in no time but, whatever float your boat...
That's a great idea
@@yantrussart6584 I am not sure about this reviewer, but most reviewers have a way to measure the frequency response of a speaker that removes the effect of the room (except for below 200 Hz). There is software available to do that. Obviously, an anechoic chamber would also do that. Certainly, all decent speaker manufacturers have a way to measure it also, subtracting any room effects. Those reviewers who don't have that kind of equipment can usually find a measurement done by someone else.
@@Newrecordday2013 let’s start with steve guttenberg 😊😊
There is some stored energy from about 600-1100 Hz. That may be why they didn't quite have the Spatial Audio X5's clarity. I was pleasantly surprised how that 15 KHz peak has no stored energy. However I would caution MM-MI cartridge fans if their favorites have tip mass resonances around 15 K as well! With such low efficiency (about 84 dB/W/M), I'm curious to also see the impedance and phase (inductive-capacitive) curve. If they hover around 4 ohms like the Magnepans, or they have highly reactive regions, they'd need a high current monster amp.
That recess from 1-3 k was probably made to go with their amps that boost that range. That is why I would mate these speakers with Yamaha amplifiers.
If their amps boosted that range they'd be broken, but they don't. Some subjectivist claim I'm sure, but when it comes to modern power amps, the frequency response i.e. amplitude is extremely flat, always, period.
Ron, where were the Yamahas placed in your room?
I wonder how these compare to the Elac FS`s
Too bad we cannot see the response down to 20Hz. That would have been the fair way to measure a loudspeaker. Do you listen to music from 200 Hz up?
I listened to this video several times and i think i missed each time which amp youre using?
how do you like 'em relative to the Forte IV...? and relative to the Concept 50...? (I know you mentioned the 50s, but I mean overall...) note: I'm 60, with some upper end hearing loss, naturally.
Rookie trim at tweeter, Philips has same problema at 70's they added acusticlense to it. Mayby Dany should Fixit the xover also 😅
Question: wouldn't the horizontal off-axis measurement of this speaker help a bit in explaining how it sounds in room (as in quite good and unexpectedly NOT bright or fatiguing)? And by chance have you seen that published anywhere? Comment: many folks (especially us Older folks) have hearing that seriously begins to drop above 13 Khz, and give the $8000 price tag, aren't these speakers 'mainly' going into the hands of Older folks (40+). So yeah, I think Yamaha's voicing (air) up top is quite welcomed and I would love to hear these for myself.
I took horizontal and vertical as well and it looks very good. Listening to these straight into the room or very slight toe-in will help relax that top end. Specifically, 30 degrees looked very good.
@@Newrecordday2013Thanks! Plus I being on the Older side of Neutral do tend to like a slight tilt upwards above 10 khz.
you nailed it on the aged hearing of the $8K mkt demographic. it's quite acceptable to design for that rise, if it in fact contributes to (airy / open / accurate), rather than detracts from (edgy / shrill / unclear), truth in music's upper octaves. a real accomplishment by Yamaha design-engineers.
But if you can’t hear higher frequencies then you can’t so, boosting them still doesn’t do much for ya? If it does help in certain cases like if you can hear say 16+ kh to some extent then ok cool why not just use an eq with a broad shelf so that all things above 10k are boosted a good amount to compensate. But fir just 15 k to be boosted and that’s it well there’llstill be some holes around it in the treble 10 - 20 k zone I’d assume.
@@chinmeysway It's not that older folks can't hear high frequencies, it is simply a matter of the high frequencies coming across softer. It will vary by age as well as person-by-person. I personally get my ears checked once every 10 years (and not your common hearing test, but one in which is more audiophile in nature). Also with age there is a frequency band that tends to have some increases here and there and that band happens to coincide with where Yamaha has chosen to reduce the frequency of this particular speaker, and so it appears that Yamaha is playing to the older crowd (pun intended 😉) with the design of this particular speaker. True, a little bit of EQ is certainly an option. However the very hight peak at 15 khz is very narrow and therefore many (and not just Older folks) will hear this as Air (and therefore enjoy it). However younger folks or simply folks with very strong hearing out to (or nearing) 20 khz may object, in which case simply buy something else 😊. I have an audition scheduled for the KEF R11 Meta next week. I wouldn't mind hearing these Yamaha's if I get the chance.
I believe zylon is used in body armour like its kevlar counterpart. It’s supposed to have better tensile strength compared to kevlar.
Ah, good to know!
aren't that the bad guys of Battlestar Gallactica?😊 Serioulsly, sounds like Yamaha is coming back to the audio we old guys are familiar with.
Yeah and it’s super hard to manufacture tweeters out of this fancy material. It doesn’t stretch and it retains its shape. So Yamaha had to be creative with molds, pressure and high temps.
"this cowboy" - with that hat? 😁 Thanks for an interesting review, Ron. Greetings to you and yours
Im am not actually a cowboy.
Please try fyne audio speakers they are made by the old tannoy staff
I love Yamaha. Need a piano? Yep, got you covered. How about some audiophile gear? Yep, no problem. Well, what about a motorcycle? I got you fam.
Maybe! Can’t tell if that is good or not but yeah kinda unique. I don’t why it’s bad. They must run their own enormous sweat shop city or something. So maybe it’s not super unique. It’s like Nestle or something
Need an engine for a Toyota or a lexus? You guessed it!
They even have golf clubs
Or a golf cart, waverunner, or outboard motor.
Descendants to the NS 10000? Not sure if I got the zero's right, but heard a discussion with the present head of Yamaha Engineering in a post some months back. Of course I was interested in hopes this Philosophy would trickle down to less expensive speakers from the Stratosphere.
Question, knowing what you know about the $8k speakers, can you do better for less $ ? Not just sound but build quality, foot print and making the speaker disappear.
This answer is a blur really. The differences between the good stuff and the very good stuff are very slim. The finish, bracing and materials in the Yamaha are worth a lot of money. Some people would argue that a basic MDF box with some bracing and a vinyl wrap would accomplish the same thing.
Obliviously the Yamaha NS-2000A is a speaker engineered for a very specific audiophile demographic. The instrumental inspiration for this speaker is of course the grand piano! The black piano finish is a label in itself for audiophiles in the know. Of course audiophiles who own and follow Yamaha already know what to expect from the company in terms of sound reproduction values. These SQ values are very clearly stated by Yamaha marketing. I could purchase Yamaha at this price point without a demo confidently. Yamaha is one of the few audio brands I blindly trust however my current audio preferences do not match a piano lovers profile.
That's such an audiophool thing to say lol. The speakers don't sound like a piano. They sound like speakers.
@@Artcore103 Of course it sounds like a speaker obviously your are a noob or a troll! Yamaha voiced this speaker for piano music.
How would you rate these vs the R series in Perlisten?
I think the Perlistens are a smidge better but it’s close.
Zylon is just a tough polymer fiber. Used lots of places - notably not in bullet proof vests anymore as it's believed for that application to degrade over time. Probably won't matter at all for a speaker.
Glad to see paper cones are making a comeback!
I have the NS1000Ms and thanks for your informative analysis. As far as I remember NS2000, 1000x 10000x all used carbon fiber material for woofer.
Check out the recent video by GR Research on the ns1000, his measurements and crossover upgrade.
@@Artcore103 I did and many before him have tried to perfect the NS1000 but I and other prefer the original and the only one that has come close to the 1000 series is the new 5000.
@@RoyFJ65 that makes no sense, it's objectively superior with his crossover. Even if you wanted to retain certain inaccuracies in it's frequency response you could still upgrade the quality of the components but keep the same values. But that's just your ears being USED to the inferior sound of the original... Not all change is initially perceived as positive, but give your ears a week or a month with the new crossover and then check again, I bet your opinion would change. It's simply a better behaved speaker and if you want to accentuate a frequency range like 1.8k or whatever then just use a good DSP EQ.
Dinosaur thinking friend. Hifi is past preferring objectively inferior products, and we have way more and way better control over things like phase coherency and frequency response in the digital domain.
@@Artcore103 and that's your bias mesmerized by a person's aura, plain and simple, no objectivity here and many in speaker and audio industry in general have thrived on their brand of snake oil. Forget the expensive NSX-10000 or the FX-3 and we all go for DIY, after all it sounds good to our ears. no denying that.
I've learn a lot of things from you
Fantastic!
Yaamahaaw as you pronounce it, also makes some great motorcycles too!!
The speakers aren't paper. They are some magic compound of spruce and xylon (sp?) This might have solved one of the great mysteries of life. 50+ years ago I'm a kid moving around audio and recording equip for J. Gordon Holt. Edgar Villchur is there and the subject of the day is whether he should put a manual tweeter booster on his soon-to-be-launched, treble-rolled-off AR-3A. Holt doesn't look at him but says "You might want to. In the middle of that last octave (i.e.15K) is the sound of 'the palpable presence of air'." The Inventor of the acoustic suspension speaker and I looked at each other as if to confirm we both heard the same thing. Air alone has a "sound"? Never got a chance to ask Mr Holt, but my AR-3As had a tweeter booster.
Most adults can't hear much around 15K. As we age this is where our hearing "rolls off". Yamaha knows this and is voicing the speaker by ear. Our hearing ability is anything but "flat". Get a hearing test and the graph may surprise you. Furthermore, in room response can dramatically alter the sound. If it sounds good to you that's all that really matters. I have not heard these speakers.
Hearing test max freq 8k 🤔
It's the bbc dip 2000-2500hz
Most people hear up to 15k. Up to is not at maximum hearing so i understand the design. If that rise was at a lower frequency it would be an other story.
For $8,000 they could have at least incorporated some design accents or aesthetics. I have original NS-2000's and they look and sound gorgeous.
Is a 2x 250 watts 4 ohms amplifier too powerful for this speaker?
No
@@Newrecordday2013 Thanks for this reply.
Review the ns5000
Xylon means Relation to Wolde. So I'm guessing that the speakers cones are made of paper.
holy crap look at that peak on the extreme upper end. That giant peak might be breakup.
A massive difference to the original NS2000's I heard when they first came out.
You haven't heard these speakers through a CZcams video.
@@Artcore103 I was referring to physical size of them.
These speakers appear to play to the normal efficiency of human hearing by adding higher frequency output. One thing that a person has to take into account is that this frequency response is sort of a transient response. It would be interesting to see how this compares to a longer sample in an anechoic chamber. I know they correlate well, but I have never seen the comparison. Ha, ha…. I should have watched the whole video before commenting.
I got you bro!
Are NS-A100XT good speakers? By Yamaha
My acoustic guitar is spruce and mahogany or i guess😊😊 paper.
So, Yamaha have a quality speaker, in a familiar box / floorstanding design, that is voiced to eliminate listening fatigue and to emphasize detail, as people over the age of say, 40 or 50 yrs old hear things, taking high end hearing loss into the equation. At $8000 this is likely where the sales are going to be.
Good videos.
Based on those measurements these look like they are made for the hearing impaired to compete with B&W for the best speaker for people over 70 years old.
gj sir
👍
Some people on here “These are terrible”
Those same people also probably couldn’t afford them lol
If it’s Yamaha, it’s gonna be good. Of course, any speaker that costs $4000 (EACH!) better be good!
Compare with KEF Meta / back wave controlled technology.
Don't feel bad for dropping 1800$ on R700s now
Impressive; especially since they are pretty much built from scratch by Yamaha
I was hoping the video would be sponsored by whomever made that hat! That is one slick lid... what's the brand?
Yamaha....
I will bet you a coffee it is filled with iron-core inductor and electrolityc capacitors plus sandcast resistors.
To my experience, rip at high octave in 90% of recorded material is plauseble and corects energetic loses of high formants of human voice and upper harmonics of musical material. In that area - as well as the deepest area zhere are almost no signals at all, just harmonics and formants and it coresponds to our experience of speaker constructions from late 70's.
Are we getting state of the art drivers or is this marketing Jingo? To put this in perspective you can buy state of the art drivers for $300 a piece and that places you at $1.200 per speaker. If these were manufacturer direct for $4,000 a pair they might be interesting but at $8,000 a pair there is stiff competition.
So they're essentially employing all the technology from their NS-5000 flagship speakers but at a much cheaper price-point?
I'm kind of split over this review, I understand the logic behind supporting opinions with graphs, but it makes a good part of the video tedious to watch. Perhaps you could shorten the time dedicated to the technical evaluation.
Are they $8,000 good??
Excellent question!
U...know.... now. ..... Yamaha .... !
If you were smoking a pipe, you'd be giving off Sherlock Holmes vibes, fr fr
€ 6,999.00 including in casu Dutch sales tax and shipping for a pair of these, is a lot a doe! And that you didn't find a way to open them, without ripping them apart: Scares 'the sh/t outta' me and should scare everybody else in my humble opinion! They look good though!
I wish Yamaha would turn up to audio shows with their serious kit. Last time I was there they only showed up with Bluetooth devices and such nonsense.
Uh Yamaha we need spruce. Trust me. Try bamboo next time please. It grows back super fast and is super inert/ strong.
Some white papers say that slate is the best material for a cabinet. But it takes millions of years to shape LOL.
Why should the Yamaha company "trust" you? A nobody.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q they should make one of ice and test how well it does / doesnt as it slowly melts.
I am not a fan with brands who manipulate the sound of their speakers following "listening test" which can be very subjective to personal taste ,the only reliable speakers are the ones with flat response, neutral and non coloration.
It's clear that Yamaha is not.
Your reviews are good and entertaining, but could I suggest a small amount of light point at your face? The brim of your hat seams to make your face go very dark.
For an older guy like me that 14-15k peak would be completely irrelevant. Your teenager might notice, and they might like it.
Enjoyable review but one thing to be pedantic about. It's pronounced YAHM aha and not YAM aha. :-)
"34 Hz-65 kHz (-10 dB), -100 kHz (-30 dB)". If Yamaha or any manufacturer (hello KEF) won't provide a meaningful frequency response specification (e.g. 20- 20 kHz @ +/- x dB), I'll pass.
The strikethrough above is from YT, not me.
Ron were you home-schooled. Lol
Ron, were you home-schooled? Lol.
Holy mother mary