Days after recording I realized that I forgot to talk about two things that I think deserve a mention, if only in a pinned comment: 1. Rain Dish Tentacruel in Gen 5. As I alluded to earlier in the video, weather can play a strong defensive role, and largely because of that Tentacruel is one of the best mons in modern BW OU. When Rain is up it heals 6.25% health and when paired with black sludge it acts like Gliscor. It’s one of the best spinners in the tier and is really good at sticking around with protect. 2. Aurora Veil. It’s basically both Reflect and Light Screen rolled into one move, but can only be used when in hail/snow. The low amount of turns it takes to set up makes it great on Hyper Offense teams and Pokemon like A-Ninetales, which I briefly mentioned at the end, abuse this. There are also a ton of smaller mechanics that I didn’t mention, like Solar Beam/Electro Shot losing their charge turn, Harvest 100% getting back berries, and the activation order that I could’ve mentioned but there comes a point where I need to cut it off and this seemed like a reasonable spot to me.
What about Heavy Weather? You know, the thing that gives all Pokemon the exact same stats as Macargo, but have the poison type? You know, the effect reserved specifically for the battle arena taking place somewhere close to Unova, that was exclusive to the gen 6 games for some reason? A fair ways south of it, in a peninsula? And for some reason, if you stay there for long enough without killing a pokemon, say 14 words into a mile, wait for the camera to move into a certain place, and are using at least one horse pokemon with a speed boosting move, the sun will turn into a streak in the sky and the horizon will spin? (I genuinely don't expect anyone to get this reference, but whatever.
Not even in part because of rain. The defensive sets were universally considered to be fine but the rain sets (mostly tera fairy AV) were pretty much free KO machines.
Archaludon is probably one of the best examples (besides excadrill) of a mon that is strong but balanced on its own, but weather setting teams make the most beyond broken.
it says a lot when a pokemon with basically silvally-tier stats like kingdra actually found success because of its typing and ability (well, and ability to hold an item.)
Now I understand it's incredibly niche, but there are technically five weathers, we always forget Delta Stream because well its only on one permanently banned pokemon. :P (Technically 6 weathers if we count Hail and Snow separately)
Can't wait for Gen 13, with the water and electric box legendary and it's new ability Storm Herald, which sets up rain and electric terrain. It's signature water move has 110 base power and sets up Aqua Ring, which was buffed to heal double in rain.
Yeah, I want to defend it as well, but the main problem with hail isn’t that it isn’t a good weather It’s the fact that it CAN’T conceptually be a good weather. Not because it sucks, far from it, there are examples of hail being good, and that lies in the problem: whenever hail/snow is good, it’s always busted: Gen 9 with baxcalibur, zolt in Gen 8 uu, aurora veil’s rain of terror in Gen 7 ru/nu/pu (can’t remember the tier) etc
ADV t tar is my favorite version of t tar. gens 3-5 t tar is just so fucking solid even in the face of fighting types goes to show how solid sand was back then
It's more threatened in ADV since there's no SpDef boost in sand but still. Always loved ttar and it's fun af using him. He rlly fills in gaps on every defensive team and also is super solid/consistent with faster paced teams.
Fun fact: a (Mega) Rayquaza took out both a primal Kyogre and Groudon with Dragon Ascent (somewhere); you may be thinking I'm describing an ancient battle thousands of years ago in Hoenn, but I was actually describing the finals of 2016 VGC Worlds.
@@prestoncole1862I always wonder if people just don’t have spellcheck or if they just don’t care. Either way they’ve gotta be happier than my paranoid pedant ass lol
I tried building a team around both rain and snow with thundurus-therian + weather ball so it can get all the coverage it wants.Of course it didn't work but oh boy was it fun. I really love harvest, pretty cool ability, to bad no good mon gets it.
Didn’t expect a Welcome to Hell reference but I’m here for it. Shows how powerful an animated passion project can be when it still hasn’t been forgotten after a decade
3:10 Even after Sand Stream + Sand Rush on the same team was banned, Sand Rush Excadrill was actually still used - as a *counter to opposing sand teams.* In fact, this was so effective and problematic that eventually, Sand Rush had to be banned entirely! (source: FSG's Excadrill video lol) The same was not the case for Swift Swim and Chlorophyll, though, which is probably because those Mons weren't quite as monstrous as Excadrill.
If I remember correctly Phanpy specifically was untouchable in Sandstorm in Gen 5. I think it was glitched to wear it just gotta an auto dodge for any non guaranteed hit moves in wifi battles. If anyone has more info on this please correct me.
My first introduction to competitive pokemon was a rain team with Basculegion. Weather teams really helped me learn how to pivot and when to attack . ❤
I always treated weather as a failed gimmick in the single player games, but that's because you just don't need it, so it rarely gets a chance to shine. Plus the game basically throws weather-setting TMs in your face and begs you to use them, but they just kinda suck. I was really surprised to learn just how powerful rain, for example, can be. It doubles the power of water attacks, halves fire, and might increase the speed or regen of your mon? "My lord, is that... legal?" ...well they made it legal.
@@Emulatedemblem This is just not true? Moreso for modern gens but still. Sun has mega charizard y and torkoal, rain has pelipper, sand has ttar, hippowdown, gigalith, and sandaconda, and snow/hail has abomasnow and vanilluxe gens 8 and 9 also make it pretty easy to get hidden abilities in a first playthrough via raids
I have not done a dedicated video about terrains, but covered a lot of terrain-adjacent stuff like Rilla and Pincurchin. Not sure if I'd do one about terrain because of that tbh.
@@ElectricWindGirlFriend If you do, you might as well just do a video with the Tapus mixed in. Something like "How the Tapu's saved Terrain" or something like that
@@Gold_Gamer_100Yeah, so few people realize its not a gen 7 phenomenon. I'd maybe throw in the Pledge effects, too, because few people realize you can set the damn arena *on fire,* and terrains were basically that level of obscure
I'm a weird person. I refuse to play ANY game without a rain team. I tried one game with a cool hazard abusing team I made, it was good, but it wasn't me. Archaludon my one and only.
i think gen 5 ou proved how easy it is to balance the weather effects, the only reason why weather is unbalanced is because of powerful attackers being given double speed. you really don't need swift swim or chlorophyll to take advantage of the offensive benefits, keldeo or volcarona in sun are if anything even scarier than the speed boosters. i think the weather ability nerf in gen 6 was dumb because it almost completely gutted all of the fun applications of weather, like rain dish or hydration, without fixing the problems with the speed boosting sweepers. all it did was incentivise players to use weather as a form of hyper offense. people love to criticise gen 5 ou for being unbalanced, but without those speedy threats weather is perfectly balanced, and the only reason why it's hard to build solid defensive cores is because the dragons are too powerful. compare that to modern gen weather teams, rain is a hyper aggressive matchup fish, sun is only good because of protosynthesis, sand is very niche and gets hard carried by excadrill, and snow is only used because ninetails with aurora veil is stupid. reject basculegion hyper offense, embrace hydration+rest goodra balance
Weather is powerful, yes, but as the video said, all of the weather setters outside of Kyogre, Groudon, Tyranitar and Hippowdon are pretty bad and wouldn't even be considered for OU usage if they didn't have their weather-setting Abilities.
@@JanusHoW yes but they do have weather setting abilities and are extremely powerful thanks to it. Annihilape would not be Ubers if it didn’t have rage fist but it does have rage fist and thus is too strong for OU. If they can enable so much power and cause things like tornadus, thundurus, and all weather speed boosting abilities to be be banned, maybe they should look at the weather abilities themselves.
@superfrubblez6123 Annihilape's situation isn't the same. If they saw Annihilape was broken and banned Rage Fist, then that would be similar. But they didn't ban Rage Fist as a move, since it isn't broken on mons like Primeape, just like how they don't ban Drizzle and co because they aren't broken on mons like Politoed and Ninetales. It's like saying to ban Choice Scarf because it is usually the item that pushes a lot of powerful sweepers over the edge, or to ban Stealth Rocks because they do passive damage that also enables powerful sweepers to break through walls, instead of just banning those sweepers that are abusing the mechanics.
Can we not put political messaging in videos that have nothing to do with it? This is not a critique of the content, it's just very distasteful and you should keep it to spaces where it is appropriate.
@@mikau2123 That is hard to quantify. For one, the content itself can make the world better, but lets say someone disagrees with the message and thinks its actually making the world worse. Even yet, what if it is? And at the end of the day, the logic expressed in your reply describes what propaganda is.
@@mikau2123 no its not, if you have a platform, you use it how you like. I just think politics should be kept out of anything that isn't political, again, its at least inappropriate.
Days after recording I realized that I forgot to talk about two things that I think deserve a mention, if only in a pinned comment:
1. Rain Dish Tentacruel in Gen 5. As I alluded to earlier in the video, weather can play a strong defensive role, and largely because of that Tentacruel is one of the best mons in modern BW OU. When Rain is up it heals 6.25% health and when paired with black sludge it acts like Gliscor. It’s one of the best spinners in the tier and is really good at sticking around with protect.
2. Aurora Veil. It’s basically both Reflect and Light Screen rolled into one move, but can only be used when in hail/snow. The low amount of turns it takes to set up makes it great on Hyper Offense teams and Pokemon like A-Ninetales, which I briefly mentioned at the end, abuse this.
There are also a ton of smaller mechanics that I didn’t mention, like Solar Beam/Electro Shot losing their charge turn, Harvest 100% getting back berries, and the activation order that I could’ve mentioned but there comes a point where I need to cut it off and this seemed like a reasonable spot to me.
What about Heavy Weather? You know, the thing that gives all Pokemon the exact same stats as Macargo, but have the poison type? You know, the effect reserved specifically for the battle arena taking place somewhere close to Unova, that was exclusive to the gen 6 games for some reason? A fair ways south of it, in a peninsula? And for some reason, if you stay there for long enough without killing a pokemon, say 14 words into a mile, wait for the camera to move into a certain place, and are using at least one horse pokemon with a speed boosting move, the sun will turn into a streak in the sky and the horizon will spin? (I genuinely don't expect anyone to get this reference, but whatever.
Remember when Archaludon beat the fraud allegations and got banned to Ubers in part because of rain
Free Archaludon
FREE ARCHALUDON!
He needs to wreak havoc once again!
Not even in part because of rain. The defensive sets were universally considered to be fine but the rain sets (mostly tera fairy AV) were pretty much free KO machines.
it was 100% only cuz of Rain yeah like what the guy above me said
Archaludon is probably one of the best examples (besides excadrill) of a mon that is strong but balanced on its own, but weather setting teams make the most beyond broken.
Nothing hits harder than manual weather setup, the good days using mega swampert rain dance in randbats
There’s something weirdly cathartic about setting up your own weather to cleave through your opponent’s team.
If you squint enough
Rain dance swampert was basically shift gear
I use to run manual rain back in gen 4 - Lead Electrode with taunt, rain dance, thunder, and explosion goes absolutely brazy
@@Edujs23except it's being run by a good Pokemon with amazing typing, Klinkklank would fucking melt in his set up turn but not swampert.
it says a lot when a pokemon with basically silvally-tier stats like kingdra actually found success because of its typing and ability
(well, and ability to hold an item.)
Castform needs a Sand form cmon GF :(
Now I understand it's incredibly niche, but there are technically five weathers, we always forget Delta Stream because well its only on one permanently banned pokemon. :P (Technically 6 weathers if we count Hail and Snow separately)
If Delta Stream/strong winds are counted, then harsh sunlight and heavy rain should also be counted as their own weathers.
7 if you count mist
@@usernametaken017 mist is an effect on one pokemon, you're thinking of fog
@@thepurified8386 yeah that
8 if you count acid rain but that’s more of ∀ glitch.
Can't wait for Gen 13, with the water and electric box legendary and it's new ability Storm Herald, which sets up rain and electric terrain. It's signature water move has 110 base power and sets up Aqua Ring, which was buffed to heal double in rain.
gamefreak: WRITE THAT DOWN, WRITE THAT DOWN!
Honestly this is the most realsitic with all of these
Tho they won't change aqua ring but give up another version
Meanwhile, the sun legendary still isn't fire type.
Gen 5 war flashbacks
im hail/snowscapes biggest defender
Yeah, I want to defend it as well, but the main problem with hail isn’t that it isn’t a good weather
It’s the fact that it CAN’T conceptually be a good weather.
Not because it sucks, far from it, there are examples of hail being good, and that lies in the problem: whenever hail/snow is good, it’s always busted: Gen 9 with baxcalibur, zolt in Gen 8 uu, aurora veil’s rain of terror in Gen 7 ru/nu/pu (can’t remember the tier) etc
ADV t tar is my favorite version of t tar. gens 3-5 t tar is just so fucking solid even in the face of fighting types goes to show how solid sand was back then
TTar having insane bulk in sand that it sets for itself speaks volumes. Effective 100/110/150 defensive profile is insane even with a 4x weakness
More than that since sand also boosts stats fron EVs
It's more threatened in ADV since there's no SpDef boost in sand but still. Always loved ttar and it's fun af using him. He rlly fills in gaps on every defensive team and also is super solid/consistent with faster paced teams.
RAIN TEAM MENTIONED!!! KINGDRA & POLITOED BEST DUO WOOOOO
I LOVE MY SEAHORSE OUTSPEEDING A 252+ SPEED CHOICE SCARF MIRAIDON YEAHHHHHHH
YESSSSS! We stan our speedy Seahorse!!!
BASED COMMENT WOOOO
Being of pure electricity vs propeller fish who's faster
I was happy to hear my GOAT, Kabutops, mentioned
Fun fact: a (Mega) Rayquaza took out both a primal Kyogre and Groudon with Dragon Ascent (somewhere); you may be thinking I'm describing an ancient battle thousands of years ago in Hoenn, but I was actually describing the finals of 2016 VGC Worlds.
Before weather: I'm weak
After weather: unlimited power
Before terrane: I'm weak
After terrane: I'm weak
Especially in gen 6
Impressively bad spelling
@@prestoncole1862I always wonder if people just don’t have spellcheck or if they just don’t care. Either way they’ve gotta be happier than my paranoid pedant ass lol
whether
That's true, then Gen 7 came with the Tapus and made terrain absolutely insane.
@@percsie3072some people aren’t native English speakers as well
Didn’t talk about Acid Rain from oldgen console battles smh, unsubbed, unfollowed, blocked and canceled
I always found it weird in previous generations that Snow Warning set the weather condition to hailing rather than snowing
I tried building a team around both rain and snow with thundurus-therian + weather ball so it can get all the coverage it wants.Of course it didn't work but oh boy was it fun.
I really love harvest, pretty cool ability, to bad no good mon gets it.
Didn’t expect a Welcome to Hell reference but I’m here for it. Shows how powerful an animated passion project can be when it still hasn’t been forgotten after a decade
3:10 Even after Sand Stream + Sand Rush on the same team was banned, Sand Rush Excadrill was actually still used - as a *counter to opposing sand teams.* In fact, this was so effective and problematic that eventually, Sand Rush had to be banned entirely! (source: FSG's Excadrill video lol)
The same was not the case for Swift Swim and Chlorophyll, though, which is probably because those Mons weren't quite as monstrous as Excadrill.
Sand:
T-Tar
Hippo
Gigalith
Hail/Snow:
Alolan Ninetails
Abomasnow
The rock.ice dinosaur
Rain:
Pelipper
Politoad
Kyogre
Sun:
Groudon
Gen 9 cover legy
Torkoal
Ninetails
13 fully evolved weather setters.
Not counting Charizard Y Mega.
Vanilluxe also gets Snow Warning! 14 !
I don’t think we have any moves that get enhanced in sandstorm yet like thunder and solar beam/blade and blizzard
Yeah but sandstorm by itself is better in most gens because of the 50% boost and stuff
If I remember correctly Phanpy specifically was untouchable in Sandstorm in Gen 5. I think it was glitched to wear it just gotta an auto dodge for any non guaranteed hit moves in wifi battles. If anyone has more info on this please correct me.
My first introduction to competitive pokemon was a rain team with Basculegion.
Weather teams really helped me learn how to pivot and when to attack . ❤
Exeggutor, my beloved
Rocks were in the game in gen 4
Wait I’m a giant moron LOL my bad
@@ElectricWindGirlFriend nah mistakes happen. Good video overal!
I love slush rush beartic. Or, as i like to call him, freezy fastbear
I love weather so much; it’s my saving grace.
This video was a hell of a way to learn Welcome to Hell 2 is a thing
Still wonder why Hail couldn't just do damage and a def boost, since Sandstorm gets to
I got more confused by the clarification about rocks not less :sob:
I have so many rocks in gen 4 from the underground
that was on me, they were introduced in gen 4.
Im just happy our boy Pelipper is relevant.
And now we wait patiently for the sequel: Terrains
we're eating good with the 4 minute ewgf video
The fact sun and rain have never been nerfed to 30% still blows my mind
Weather's a fun mechanic!
I always treated weather as a failed gimmick in the single player games, but that's because you just don't need it, so it rarely gets a chance to shine. Plus the game basically throws weather-setting TMs in your face and begs you to use them, but they just kinda suck. I was really surprised to learn just how powerful rain, for example, can be. It doubles the power of water attacks, halves fire, and might increase the speed or regen of your mon? "My lord, is that... legal?"
...well they made it legal.
It’s a hidden mechanic only reserved for hidden abilities, aka you’ll never find the weather in a first play through 😂
@@Emulatedemblem This is just not true? Moreso for modern gens but still. Sun has mega charizard y and torkoal, rain has pelipper, sand has ttar, hippowdown, gigalith, and sandaconda, and snow/hail has abomasnow and vanilluxe
gens 8 and 9 also make it pretty easy to get hidden abilities in a first playthrough via raids
@@Emma-rw8yo TIL weather isn’t a hidden mechanic in Pokémon
always wonder what gen 3 would be like if peliper and torkol had there weather abilitys
2:18 you should also mention them being able to get it more than once while not using up an item slot
I’m still waiting for Sand Castform GameFreak!
Sad to see that moves that interact with the weather weren't mentioned but still enjoyed it
0:17 lol I was like “what moves does Slowpoke get that have low accuracy??” this damn game’s meta terms have ruined me 😭😂
what
@@usernametaken017the pop up started with “misspoke” which I thought was an abbreviation like focus miss or CroCune etc.
@@Arc-ug7dc you gotta be careful of the infamous misdreavus slowpoke core "misspoke" - it's an absolute killer in LC
This reminds me. Have you covered Terrains yet?
I have not done a dedicated video about terrains, but covered a lot of terrain-adjacent stuff like Rilla and Pincurchin. Not sure if I'd do one about terrain because of that tbh.
@@ElectricWindGirlFriend If you do, you might as well just do a video with the Tapus mixed in. Something like "How the Tapu's saved Terrain" or something like that
@@Gold_Gamer_100Yeah, so few people realize its not a gen 7 phenomenon.
I'd maybe throw in the Pledge effects, too, because few people realize you can set the damn arena *on fire,* and terrains were basically that level of obscure
@@Bird-wz7nxI wouldn't mind seeing a vid reminding everyone that this exists. Hell, I had to google it to confirm this. This should be a vid
not the way i expected to find out about welcome to hell 2 like what??
All hail Tyranitar! Mr. OU!
hail doesn’t do damage anymore? that’s news to me lol
*Shadow Lunatone used shadow sky*
I'm a weird person. I refuse to play ANY game without a rain team. I tried one game with a cool hazard abusing team I made, it was good, but it wasn't me. Archaludon my one and only.
Wait, theres a trailer for Welcome to Hell 2?
i think gen 5 ou proved how easy it is to balance the weather effects, the only reason why weather is unbalanced is because of powerful attackers being given double speed. you really don't need swift swim or chlorophyll to take advantage of the offensive benefits, keldeo or volcarona in sun are if anything even scarier than the speed boosters. i think the weather ability nerf in gen 6 was dumb because it almost completely gutted all of the fun applications of weather, like rain dish or hydration, without fixing the problems with the speed boosting sweepers. all it did was incentivise players to use weather as a form of hyper offense. people love to criticise gen 5 ou for being unbalanced, but without those speedy threats weather is perfectly balanced, and the only reason why it's hard to build solid defensive cores is because the dragons are too powerful. compare that to modern gen weather teams, rain is a hyper aggressive matchup fish, sun is only good because of protosynthesis, sand is very niche and gets hard carried by excadrill, and snow is only used because ninetails with aurora veil is stupid. reject basculegion hyper offense, embrace hydration+rest goodra balance
I’m still surprised that gen 5 banned everything surrounding weather and never tried to maybe ban weather setting abilities.
Weather is powerful, yes, but as the video said, all of the weather setters outside of Kyogre, Groudon, Tyranitar and Hippowdon are pretty bad and wouldn't even be considered for OU usage if they didn't have their weather-setting Abilities.
@@JanusHoW yes but they do have weather setting abilities and are extremely powerful thanks to it. Annihilape would not be Ubers if it didn’t have rage fist but it does have rage fist and thus is too strong for OU. If they can enable so much power and cause things like tornadus, thundurus, and all weather speed boosting abilities to be be banned, maybe they should look at the weather abilities themselves.
Iirc it was basically "rain is broken but the other 3 are fine but we're too invested in parity to ban drizzle"
@superfrubblez6123 Annihilape's situation isn't the same. If they saw Annihilape was broken and banned Rage Fist, then that would be similar. But they didn't ban Rage Fist as a move, since it isn't broken on mons like Primeape, just like how they don't ban Drizzle and co because they aren't broken on mons like Politoed and Ninetales.
It's like saying to ban Choice Scarf because it is usually the item that pushes a lot of powerful sweepers over the edge, or to ban Stealth Rocks because they do passive damage that also enables powerful sweepers to break through walls, instead of just banning those sweepers that are abusing the mechanics.
it's like tera. Yeah it may be a problem but it's a fun problem
If it's so powerful, why is cloud nine Golduck not a must have staple?
Because Rayquaza does it better.
:)
Making a weather video without knowing much about gen5 is kinda embarrassing
Can we not put political messaging in videos that have nothing to do with it? This is not a critique of the content, it's just very distasteful and you should keep it to spaces where it is appropriate.
Yeah no. More people should use their platforms to make the world better where they can.
@@mikau2123 That is hard to quantify. For one, the content itself can make the world better, but lets say someone disagrees with the message and thinks its actually making the world worse. Even yet, what if it is? And at the end of the day, the logic expressed in your reply describes what propaganda is.
@@fifnaf7290 i should have said *try to make the world better. If you have a platform, it's your job to try to help people where you can, imo
@@mikau2123 no its not, if you have a platform, you use it how you like. I just think politics should be kept out of anything that isn't political, again, its at least inappropriate.
@@fifnaf7290 politics are in every part of the world and if you remain silent on genocide, you're complacent in jt