Thank you rabbi , i am a poor jew living in a non jewish neighborhood or town in abilene texas where it is almost impossible to eat entirely kosher but i am trying my best to do so until hashem grants me an open door for me to leave here and live with my fellow jews , hopefully in israel one day i pray
A lovely shiur. If I may add from my own experience ; The humrah of only halav yisrael was encouraged for those who could afford it, aswell as to enhance the community as a cohesive whole,and support financially the talmid hacham. My thanks to you.
Excellent video shiur Rabbi Bar-Hayim, yasher koakh!!! I very much agree with just about everything you said in the shiur. I do want to elaborate on one of the things you said during the shiur, and it was concerning the part where you talked about how Rabbi Moshe Feinstein Z"TL said in his Igroth Moshe that even though he paskened l'halakha that regular milk with kosher ingredients (in countries like the US, Canada, and others where there are government regulations or societal standards that require the milk to come exclusively from a cow unless the packaging explicitly says otherwise) is permissible, he did add that it's a good idea for a "Ba'al Nefesh" to be stringent to only consume the special "Cholov Yisroel" milk that was under the constant supervision of frum Jews. About 15 years ago, I learned from Rabbi Yitzhak Abadi's sons (on the website that his sons have been operating for the last 16 years) that there are two reasons R' Moshe ZT"L added the "A Ba'al Nefesh should be machmir" part to his teshuva on this subject. 1. He did not want people to forget that there are certain places in the world (e.g. Third World countries without government regulations or society standards) where indeed people can get away with sneaking in milk from camels, horses, pigs, etc... without warning people. 2. But more importantly, R' Moshe was bullied, criticized, and harassed by quite a few in the frum community in his day for his original p'sak that all milk with kosher ingredients in countries like the U.S. was kosher and fine regardless of whether there was an observant Jew watching the milking process or not. The thing is, the general Orthodox community more often than not wants us and teaches us to believe that the psakim and teachings of talmidei hakhamim/rabbanim are always free from politics; but this a perfect example of how sometimes this isn't the case. From studying a bit of history behind the making of p'sak and how halakhic decisions have been made historically, I know of several instances where talmidei hakhamim/rabbanim have paskened that according to the l'ikar ha-din halakha something is permissible but then they publicly say we shouldn't do that something because of the fear that posek/talmid hakham will be bullied/criticized/harassed by others who don't agree with him or because of the desire to "maintain Shalom" in the larger surrounding Orthodox world. A very good friend of mine once responded two years ago to a discussion on an online Jewish discussion group with a whole paragraph saying things such as "It is a well-known fact that Artscroll biographies are sanitized and fabricated for the purpose of furthering their agenda(s). Most of what is contained in them is hearsay, lashon hara, and bubbe-meises......" and "...The fact is that he (Reb Moshe) openly condemned much of the frumkeit that has now become commonplace, but was only beginning to take hold in his own generation. Reb Moshe z"l is not the only one that they are doing this to, there are many...." Again R' Bar-Hayim, excellent video shiur!!!
My Rosh Yeshivah also would say that, certain things that R' Moshe wrote - were because "he was forced to" - because of such pressures and nonsense as you write. My Rosh Yeshivah would rely on his own assessment of R' Moshe (he had some interaction with him) and his own common sense (perhaps call it Da'as Torah) to brush off those points that he felt confident had crept in - without sound elucidation and reasoning proofs spelled out in the Teshuvas. Also where the conduct of R' Moshe as testified by eyewitnesses and members of his family - sometimes contradicts his own rulings in his teshuvos (never mind what biographies write about him)
I love and respect your culture and I appreciate your lessons and I believe that if we go back to old traditions and start respecting the Torah as well as people and other Traditions like as they were long ago the problems that we have today within our bodies are spirit and our minds Will no longer exist
The shiur was well researched, but you neglected one important point about yogurt and cottage cheese. These products still require supervision (such as OU-D for example) due to the presence of ingredients such as coagulants and stabilizers.This does not mean having a mashgiach tenidi on premises as the chalav yisrael standard, but periodic spot check visits. I work in kashrus, and know all the ins and outs.
1eccen: I understand where you're coming from, but believe it or not there are a few poskim/talmidei hakhamim who disagree with the view that "every tiny little food additive that is derived from a non-kosher source is always treif no matter what". There are a few talmidei hakhamim today (such as Rabbi Yitzhak Abadi and I think Rabbi Bar-Hayim too) who hold that gelatin, stabilizers, and coagulants are not a kashrus problem because by themselves (without being mixed in with the other ingredients in a food) they either have no taste or they have a bitter taste (noten ta'am lifgam). Yes, I realize that the major kashrus agencies and most of today's mainstream Orthodox world and poskim don't accept the view I quoted; but I don't believe that it should be relevant. Historically and ideally, I've learned that talmidei hakhamim are supposed to learn thru the sugya everytime a halakhic issue comes up with all the portions of the Mishnayot, Gemaras, etc... which deal with the halakhic issue in question. Once the posek/talmid hakham has done that and taken the reality/context into account, then he can and should issue his p'sak on what he honestly believes to be the truth and correct whether it's strict or lenient, without worrying about what other poskim think; or what the mainstream kashrus agencies, Chief Rabbinate of Israel, RCA, Agudas Yisroel think; or what the rest of the frum world wants to follow. I've also learned from those same sources that a rav/talmid hakham isn't supposed to worry about what the "majority" or "consensus" of rabbanim think unless there is either a. A real fully functioning Sanhedrin being back in place out of Yerushalayim (we're still waiting for that to happen) or b. In the context of a local Beit Din where nearly all of the dayanim have make a p'sak but there's this one rav on the Beit Din who doesn't agree, and its an issue where the Beis Din is required to come to an unanimous psak. So, I'm sorry but I'll have to agree to disagree on the matter of "All poskim hold that coagulants and stabilizers are a serious kashrut problem". Kol tuv.
Jeff Duitch This is not about bitul or noten taam liphgam. Nor is it about blindly following the majority of poskim. The fact is that these ingredients are added with a definate purpose, that is to form the product. As such, they are a davar hamaamid, and not batel. This is mainstream halacha not just ou policy.
@@1eccen i discussed making yoghurt with my rav, and subsequently with the local kashrut man. my rav stated a yoghurt could never be kosher if its ultimate source was not cholov yisroel The Kashrus guy, who is a friend of mine told me the rav was mistaken. All cheeses and yoghurts have to start somewhere: the cheeses, with animal rennets. He told me the accepted practice, including OU and LBD, is to take the non chalav yisroel cheese, use it to start a batch more than 60 times greater. Then repeat with one sixtieth of the new brew. i realise that nowadays since Rav Feinstein chalav yisroel is a chumra. But I bet he never drank any :)
It is always possible to bring the milk from a farm where you can supervise yourself. As for cottage cheese, it can be made at home. My great grandmother never bought cottage cheese, she made it herself.
Thank your very much! I would like to learn more about issues of cheesy halacha soon! Why we may not eat cheese without hachsher which clearly says that vegetable rennet?
I believe its because of a Gezera of the Hachamim not to have Jews interact too much with non-Jews. I would like to have it clarified if in today's world where one buys cheese in a supermarket, if it has the same idea today or not. Or do we say that since its that Gezera then we cant change it in this circumstances either. Interesting topic to hear being explored.
It seems to me that the Rabbi is adjuring individuals who are aspiring to a higher level of piety, (or, as he Rabbi describes it: "being pedantic") not to do so - for others may conclude that their own level of observance or religiosity is inadequate. Here, the Rabbi is referring to the practice of many religious Jews of only consuming chalav yisroel dairy products. But just the slightest extrapolation, it seems to me, could lead one to a situation of spiritual stagnation, in order to spare others from developing a sense of inadequacy, as I initially stated. "Extra expense"? - well, I guess that is another discussion. And as far as the Rabbi's characterization of what is "unnecessary and superfluous" with respect to the level of Torah observance that one aspires to - well - I think I'll have to leave that for another time...but wait - would any person reading my critique venture to tell me which of our gedolim, Rebbes, Roshei yeshiva, etc. fall into the Rabbi's category of "hedyot"?
Thank you rabbi , i am a poor jew living in a non jewish neighborhood or town in abilene texas where it is almost impossible to eat entirely kosher but i am trying my best to do so until hashem grants me an open door for me to leave here and live with my fellow jews , hopefully in israel one day i pray
A lovely shiur. If I may add from my own experience ; The humrah of only halav yisrael was encouraged for those who could afford it, aswell as to enhance the community as a cohesive whole,and support financially the talmid hacham. My thanks to you.
Is chalav yisrael a chumrah or is chalav stam a heter?
@@morehnI was recently having a conversation with a charedi rabbi and I referred to cholov yisrael as a chumrah and he started screaming at me.
@@stephenfisher3721 based on Reb Moshe's teshuva of conflating the USDA with "Anan Sahadei," I'm not so sure he holds it's just a heter.
thank you rabbi, your such a great teacher.
thank you for fantastic information and full explanation.
Excellent video shiur Rabbi Bar-Hayim, yasher koakh!!! I very much agree with just about everything you said in the shiur. I do want to elaborate on one of the things you said during the shiur, and it was concerning the part where you talked about how Rabbi Moshe Feinstein Z"TL said in his Igroth Moshe that even though he paskened l'halakha that regular milk with kosher ingredients (in countries like the US, Canada, and others where there are government regulations or societal standards that require the milk to come exclusively from a cow unless the packaging explicitly says otherwise) is permissible, he did add that it's a good idea for a "Ba'al Nefesh" to be stringent to only consume the special "Cholov Yisroel" milk that was under the constant supervision of frum Jews. About 15 years ago, I learned from Rabbi Yitzhak Abadi's sons (on the website that his sons have been operating for the last 16 years) that there are two reasons R' Moshe ZT"L added the "A Ba'al Nefesh should be machmir" part to his teshuva on this subject. 1. He did not want people to forget that there are certain places in the world (e.g. Third World countries without government regulations or society standards) where indeed people can get away with sneaking in milk from camels, horses, pigs, etc... without warning people. 2. But more importantly, R' Moshe was bullied, criticized, and harassed by quite a few in the frum community in his day for his original p'sak that all milk with kosher ingredients in countries like the U.S. was kosher and fine regardless of whether there was an observant Jew watching the milking process or not. The thing is, the general Orthodox community more often than not wants us and teaches us to believe that the psakim and teachings of talmidei hakhamim/rabbanim are always free from politics; but this a perfect example of how sometimes this isn't the case. From studying a bit of history behind the making of p'sak and how halakhic decisions have been made historically, I know of several instances where talmidei hakhamim/rabbanim have paskened that according to the l'ikar ha-din halakha something is permissible but then they publicly say we shouldn't do that something because of the fear that posek/talmid hakham will be bullied/criticized/harassed by others who don't agree with him or because of the desire to "maintain Shalom" in the larger surrounding Orthodox world. A very good friend of mine once responded two years ago to a discussion on an online Jewish discussion group with a whole paragraph saying things such as "It is a well-known fact that Artscroll biographies are sanitized and fabricated for the purpose of furthering their agenda(s). Most of what is contained in them is hearsay, lashon hara, and bubbe-meises......" and "...The fact is that he (Reb Moshe) openly condemned much of the frumkeit that has now become commonplace, but was only beginning to take hold in his own generation. Reb Moshe z"l is not the only one that they are doing this to, there are many...." Again R' Bar-Hayim, excellent video shiur!!!
My Rosh Yeshivah also would say that, certain things that R' Moshe wrote - were because "he was forced to" - because of such pressures and nonsense as you write. My Rosh Yeshivah would rely on his own assessment of R' Moshe (he had some interaction with him) and his own common sense (perhaps call it Da'as Torah) to brush off those points that he felt confident had crept in - without sound elucidation and reasoning proofs spelled out in the Teshuvas. Also where the conduct of R' Moshe as testified by eyewitnesses and members of his family - sometimes contradicts his own rulings in his teshuvos (never mind what biographies write about him)
Thanks for this information
I love and respect your culture and I appreciate your lessons and I believe that if we go back to old traditions and start respecting the Torah as well as people and other Traditions like as they were long ago the problems that we have today within our bodies are spirit and our minds Will no longer exist
The shiur was well researched, but you neglected one important point about yogurt and cottage cheese. These products still require supervision (such as OU-D for example) due to the presence of ingredients such as coagulants and stabilizers.This does not mean having a mashgiach tenidi on premises as the chalav yisrael standard, but periodic spot check visits. I work in kashrus, and know all the ins and outs.
1eccen: I understand where you're coming from, but believe it or not there are a few poskim/talmidei hakhamim who disagree with the view that "every tiny little food additive that is derived from a non-kosher source is always treif no matter what". There are a few talmidei hakhamim today (such as Rabbi Yitzhak Abadi and I think Rabbi Bar-Hayim too) who hold that gelatin, stabilizers, and coagulants are not a kashrus problem because by themselves (without being mixed in with the other ingredients in a food) they either have no taste or they have a bitter taste (noten ta'am lifgam). Yes, I realize that the major kashrus agencies and most of today's mainstream Orthodox world and poskim don't accept the view I quoted; but I don't believe that it should be relevant. Historically and ideally, I've learned that talmidei hakhamim are supposed to learn thru the sugya everytime a halakhic issue comes up with all the portions of the Mishnayot, Gemaras, etc... which deal with the halakhic issue in question. Once the posek/talmid hakham has done that and taken the reality/context into account, then he can and should issue his p'sak on what he honestly believes to be the truth and correct whether it's strict or lenient, without worrying about what other poskim think; or what the mainstream kashrus agencies, Chief Rabbinate of Israel, RCA, Agudas Yisroel think; or what the rest of the frum world wants to follow. I've also learned from those same sources that a rav/talmid hakham isn't supposed to worry about what the "majority" or "consensus" of rabbanim think unless there is either a. A real fully functioning Sanhedrin being back in place out of Yerushalayim (we're still waiting for that to happen) or b. In the context of a local Beit Din where nearly all of the dayanim have make a p'sak but there's this one rav on the Beit Din who doesn't agree, and its an issue where the Beis Din is required to come to an unanimous psak. So, I'm sorry but I'll have to agree to disagree on the matter of "All poskim hold that coagulants and stabilizers are a serious kashrut problem". Kol tuv.
Jeff Duitch This is not about bitul or noten taam liphgam. Nor is it about blindly following the majority of poskim. The fact is that these ingredients are added with a definate purpose, that is to form the product. As such, they are a davar hamaamid, and not batel. This is mainstream halacha not just ou policy.
www.kosherveyosher.com/gelatine-160814.html
@@1eccen i discussed making yoghurt with my rav, and subsequently with the local kashrut man. my rav stated a yoghurt could never be kosher if its ultimate source was not cholov yisroel The Kashrus guy, who is a friend of mine told me the rav was mistaken. All cheeses and yoghurts have to start somewhere: the cheeses, with animal rennets. He told me the accepted practice, including OU and LBD, is to take the non chalav yisroel cheese, use it to start a batch more than 60 times greater. Then repeat with one sixtieth of the new brew. i realise that nowadays since Rav Feinstein chalav yisroel is a chumra. But I bet he never drank any :)
It is always possible to bring the milk from a farm where you can supervise yourself. As for cottage cheese, it can be made at home. My great grandmother never bought cottage cheese, she made it herself.
What percentage of Orthodox Jews live anywhere near a farm?
Thank your very much! I would like to learn more about issues of cheesy halacha soon! Why we may not eat cheese without hachsher which clearly says that vegetable rennet?
I believe its because of a Gezera of the Hachamim not to have Jews interact too much with non-Jews. I would like to have it clarified if in today's world where one buys cheese in a supermarket, if it has the same idea today or not. Or do we say that since its that Gezera then we cant change it in this circumstances either. Interesting topic to hear being explored.
Short answer: yes
Food that is not good for you is always cheaper than food that is good for you
It seems to me that the Rabbi is adjuring individuals who are aspiring to a higher level of piety, (or, as he Rabbi describes it: "being pedantic") not to do so - for others may conclude that their own level of observance or religiosity is inadequate. Here, the Rabbi is referring to the practice of many religious Jews of only consuming chalav yisroel dairy products. But just the slightest
extrapolation, it seems to me, could lead one to a situation of spiritual stagnation, in order to spare others from developing a sense of inadequacy, as I initially stated. "Extra expense"? - well, I guess that is another discussion. And as far as the Rabbi's characterization of what is "unnecessary and superfluous" with respect to the level of Torah observance that one aspires to - well - I think I'll have to leave that for another time...but wait - would any person reading my critique venture to tell me which of our gedolim, Rebbes, Roshei yeshiva, etc. fall into the Rabbi's category of "hedyot"?
Yes.but is it counted as a sin if it was unkosher.
Honey. Yeah, right.