Thank you Pastor Rob for this update. Your words of wisdom concerning these issues facing the UMC are a source of discernment for us laity, who need to hear much more as we move forward in the Wesleyan spirit.
I am praying for resolution to this difficult issue. Would it be so wrong to remove these Bishops and pastors from the UMC? Don't we as Christians make a stand each day on God's word. Why didn't our church? It is what God says it is. For us to have looked the other way for so long and not follow God's word has been a sin. I think faithful UMC members always knew, long ago, that our church leadership was "kicking the can" down the road on this issue when they should have been dealing with it in accordance to God word and not financial issues (pensions, real estate, church assets --- MONEY). Like Pastor Rob said, you can't say one thing but do another. God will see the faithful through this. This too I pray for.
our church was appointed an openly gay minister and we lost half of our congregation. Now we are facing closing the doors after celebrating our 100th anniversary. so sad
This should be a procedure that is voted on at the General Conference and placed in the Discipline. The Body of Christ in the Methodist Church need to have a means of keeping Bishops accountable to the Discipline. Bishops that disregard the standards of the discipline are essentially dishonest people and should be removed. If they were intellectually honest, they would step down as a matter of conscience. When you feel you cannot have the intellectual integrity to support the standards that you submitted to when you took the office, it is time to admit the truth and resign. Be well, DZ
MY REACTION........The United Methodist Church as a whole, has its Rules and Regulations or Laws as any other churches does...Any acts or rites or anything which violates the law from any book of discipline is FAKE and using only its name ...In fact i never heard bad things happen, and as far as i am concerned, a homosexual considered by almost as a crime or watever...but anyway ...and that same sex marriage will not affect me in any way...I was raised and I learned that I was created according to His Words and likeness, that my heart till now build with strong foundation, Thanks Be to God.....considering salvation is individually aND not by group....And I!! will stand for The United Methodist Me...in all its glory...AMIEN
I am an 86-year-old male that has been a United Methodist since the age of six years old and left five years ago. I left because the organization was unable to settle an internal conflict that, if all concerned, were acting like mature Orthodox Methodists, they would find the simple solution. Those who disagree with the Methodist Discipline have only have one choice: LEAVE! I left, not because I disagreed with the Discipline, but the fact the organization was not strong enough to stand for what Methodism historically preached. It is attempting to delude people that biblical principles can be ignored without the biblical penalties. The Organization is allowing itself to be thrown into chaos by a minority of deviants from historical beliefs and were not strong enough to leave the organization they no longer believed in. If Bishops, ministers or lay people cannot submit to the Discipline then they are, IN FACT, not Methodist and their only purpose is to further confuse others by claiming they are Methodists.
Dear @Ron Richardson, Thank you for your relevant and wise comments. I left the UMC, the church of my childhood, many years before you. However, there is still this sentimentality that I have for the UMC. I want to see it come through this issue and become a Godly witness for the Gospel. This whole situation really saddens me. The solution actually seems so simple if there are enough bold people to take a stand for the historic teachings of the Scriptures. As you said: " If Bishops, ministers or lay people cannot submit to the Discipline then they are, IN FACT, not Methodist and their only purpose is to further confuse others by claiming they are Methodists." The discipline should be changed to state that all members of the UMC should support the doctrines and teachings expressed and required in the discipline. If they don't they should be removed from the membership role. If leaders (Bishops, Superintendents, Pastors & other) fail to step down they will be removed by legal means, because they no longer represent the ideologies of the organization. I will continue to pray that Godly leaders may become vocal to stand for God's standards. Be Well My Brother in Christ, DZ
As in a dysfunctional marriage, there are times when it is truly ripe for ending--it needs to be winnowed. The ripeness then minimizes regret and remorse, so that each party can continue with their chosen path unabated. It is hard to the fathom the reality of the situation and how it came to this point; however, reasonable people can chose to disagree. As one who lives and breathes the scriptures and does not consider them to be mere suggestions but rather true markers and guideposts for living, I would hope God's will be done, as I am sure it will be. I love the prayer: May your will, not ours, be done; and may your will and ours be one.
When the votes were in and passage happened, Churches didn't leave the United Methodist Church in the 1970's. What will be your legacy, a process of division or unity? Instead of talking about leaving, how about talking about unity? People remained faithful and remained unified with the United Methodist Church. Seeking a split will only hurt the greater vision of what it means to be a United Methodist. Open Hearts. Open Minds. Open Doors. Let's remain open together. It's easy to leave a relationship, that's the easy road to take. Creating a wedge between people and dividing us and putting a taxonomy in place isn't what Jesus intended for us. Have the courage to remain UNITED. Talk it out, be in communication, open your hearts, open your minds, open your doors. Have the integrity of what you say actually mean what you say. It will take something bigger than you know yourself to be to transform and allow the grace of God into your life. This is the next step, the next transformation within the United Methodist Church. Think of the future of the Church.
Strange how this could even be a debate! The way forward? There has always been two ways; the way of truth & life, or, the way of lies & death. Out of love we should reach out to all those who fall short, but to allow ourselves to be led astray & say what is wrong is now somehow right, this is not the way to salvation. We must lead by example! If our leaders are allowed to disregard scripture, especially issues which unquestionably are an abomination to the Lord our God, what kind of Church do we now have? You cannot serve two masters! I am so sad for those who love the truth, where will they turn as more & more denominations turn away from sound doctrine. On the streets of my city I often claim to many how this is a good time to be right with God, to be a Christian. Yet really, where do I point them for fellowship? Is there really a Church today in which Jesus would feel at home? Yes Jesus talked with sinners, but he didn’t promote them to just carry on in sin. WO repenting & sinning no more, there is no hope. How far does grace go, is it not true that Faith WO works is dead? So sorry don’t mean to offend anyone. I pray we all come into the truth & be set free from the bondage of sin. Peace be with you.
Thx for reply, pretty sure we are in agreement. Repent sinners, for the kingdom of God draws near. Are we lead by the Spirit, or do we submit to the desires of the flesh?
Modern-day Christianity is more about organization, being Bible-focused, and having a sanctimonious image of unity than about Jesus and what He would want His Church to be. This present uproar that United Methodist Church is going through is really about "What would moral Christians think about our acceptance of gay and women pastors." Please know that Jesus would not support a church's rejection of anyone. Biblical holiness is Old Testament. Love, charity, and acceptance is Jesus and New Testament! Jesus would also not support pre-judging that gay people are all actively living an immoral life. I am an 87 year old person who was born gay. I have lived a totally moral life and even experienced an 18 year marriage with 4 children. Of course, being gay it broke up after 18 years. Please realize that since God created people to be gay, they are not going to be "scared off the face of the earth" because your church worries about appearance! Young people understand the human issues involved in love, charity, and acceptance and will not darken the door of a church that is basically uncharitable!!!
"These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men." (Matt 15:8) The teachings and standards of men are more important that what God says. Be Well,
i like reading all comments good or bad not a big deal for me because i believe, Man means sin...thatz mine...make sense, bec. it makes the world go arround. yes? or no!..absulotely correct...l.but wait, i love reasing comments and thiz word is always there, every piece never miss! =-=-=-dee -ee -ce -ee -eye -vee -ee -dee=-=-DECEIVED..hows the sensation, does it feel ok and relax uttering thiz word to anyone..im thinking , using thiz to them, my neigbors here in vatican, the roman catholic...but why! i said no..if its true they are also deceived like me....well the right word must be -understand- and interact, then socialize`....hmm almost forgot that is 1 of the general rules of John...as if i really knew John...who? for the last 46 years of my simple life, within that communiuty called UMC, its only now few days , i came to know him John Wesley is the founder of TUMC the builder everything....His surname Wesley i heard that when i was in elementary by my cousin who is a pentecost......that Wesley alone and only once.....whaaaaat!, ive went tru kindergarten, youngerelementary and so on, that was the community The United Methodist Church, u know the reality of that Group UMC, is absulotely amazing, the reason i forgot to ask the man who brought into these world...its real, The UMC as a whole is really a group of people its members We....simple as that, all members of all ages has its role...my younger ones have thier sunday school, and during vacation we have our DVCS
Methodism is not Apostolic and follows a tradition that is at least 1400 years newer than historical Christianity. That is part of the problem. Scripture and 2000 years of unanimous tradition condemns practicing homosexuality; this is historical fact. Methodists, come home to the Orthodox Church. We haven't changed doctrine or theology in 2000 years, and we never will. I'll be praying that all come home to Holy Orthodoxy.
"Somewhat" well said. May Methodists and all other denominationalists go back to the Bible as the source of their faith and practice. PRE-denominational Christianity is not found in the creedbooks of modern man.
Apostolic Tradition is not necessarily found in any one denomination or institutional church. Any church that follows the authentic teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles, as expressed in the first century church, is a church that is founded on and practices genuine Christianity, according to the "Apostolic Tradition". I do agree with you that the UMC does not follow "Apostolic Tradition" and that is one of the reasons I left the UMC over 40 years ago. This does not mean that there are no Christians in the UMC, because there are some members of the UMC that are Genuine Christians (I personally know some). However there are a lot of members who are not Christians. I do believe we should pray that God would move the remnant of Christians left in the UMC to stand up and hold the standards of God. Perhaps the UMC can recover and become a Church that follows the "Apostolic Tradition". Be Well, DZ
Dear @Craig Lee, Fair question ! I would like to answer some of it. It is complicated but I can give a very basic overview and try to be concise. "gay marriage or, homosexual acts" are contrary to the Christian Worldview as deemed by God. God is the one who sets the standards, not man, or the church, or the culture, or politics, etc.. As humans, who have chosen to become Christians, who follow God in the teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles and Scripture, we have the goal of conforming our lives to His standards. It is contrary to the Christian worldview to attempt to conform God, to our moral standards and beliefs. This perspective is clearly presented in Rom. 12:1-2: "I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." God has proclaimed the behavior of homosexuality to be contrary to His standards, which in essence, means, this behavior is "sin". Sin separates man from God because, God is holy; one of His essential attributes. People have the tendency to compromise sin and deemphasize the significance of sin. They even make up their own religions that are accepting of, and minimize, sin. This process is essentially the same as taking a piece of wood, carving an idol, and then getting on your knees and worshiping the idol you just made, as your god and creator. Some people can get emotionally and religiously involved in this practice, but they are essentially worshipping a counterfeit religion/gospel. "And the Lord said: “Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment taught by men," (Isa. 29:13) "These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men." (Matt 15:8) There is a lot that could be said about this issue and it is complicated. Unfortunately most Christians, and particularly people who claim to be Christians, are basically Theologically and Biblically illiterate. Sadly, our churches are not even teaching members a course in Christian Systematic Theology. Many are basically incompetent when it comes to understanding the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Scriptures, because our churches are not teaching them the basics of hermeneutics and exegetical procedures. Many have a "zeal for God, but not according to knowledge." (Rom. 10:2). The sentence following this statement, (the next verse) is significant to the issue. Rom. 10:3 says: "For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. Their lack of knowledge causes ignorance concerning the "righteousness of God" (His standards of morality), so they set up their own standard of righteousness, and their own standards of morality, and basically throw God's standards out the window. I guess they consider God's thoughts on the issue as irrelevant and of no consequence. This is a strange behavior for those who claim to be following God. Essentially, they are rejecting God. And they criticize those who try to follow God's standards, as being intolerant and obsolete. I hope this give a little perspective of the Christian Worldview on this issue. Be Well DZ
Thank you Pastor Rob for this update. Your words of wisdom concerning these issues facing the UMC are a source of discernment for us laity, who need to hear much more as we move forward in the Wesleyan spirit.
The church should not be addressing this just by the Book of Discipline, they should be more importantly looking at this biblically. i.e. Matthew 18
The infallible word of God vs. the all-too-human and fallible BOD, the weak link now fully exposed.
I am praying for resolution to this difficult issue. Would it be so wrong to remove these Bishops and pastors from the UMC? Don't we as Christians make a stand each day on God's word. Why didn't our church? It is what God says it is. For us to have looked the other way for so long and not follow God's word has been a sin. I think faithful UMC members always knew, long ago, that our church leadership was "kicking the can" down the road on this issue when they should have been dealing with it in accordance to God word and not financial issues (pensions, real estate, church assets --- MONEY). Like Pastor Rob said, you can't say one thing but do another. God will see the faithful through this. This too I pray for.
our church was appointed an openly gay minister and we lost half of our congregation. Now we are facing closing the doors after celebrating our 100th anniversary. so sad
May the Holy Spirit renew the Methodist Church and guide it unto all Truth.
If any Methodist bishops refuse to enforce the Book Of Discipline, they need to go.
This should be a procedure that is voted on at the General Conference and placed in the Discipline. The Body of Christ in the Methodist Church need to have a means of keeping Bishops accountable to the Discipline.
Bishops that disregard the standards of the discipline are essentially dishonest people and should be removed. If they were intellectually honest, they would step down as a matter of conscience. When you feel you cannot have the intellectual integrity to support the standards that you submitted to when you took the office, it is time to admit the truth and resign.
Be well,
DZ
MY REACTION........The United Methodist Church as a whole, has its Rules and Regulations or Laws as any other churches does...Any acts or rites or anything which violates the law from any book of discipline is FAKE and using only its name ...In fact i never heard bad things happen, and as far as i am concerned, a homosexual considered by almost as a crime or watever...but anyway ...and that same sex marriage will not affect me in any way...I was raised and I learned that I was created according to His Words and likeness, that my heart till now build with strong foundation, Thanks Be to God.....considering salvation is individually aND not by group....And I!! will stand for The United Methodist Me...in all its glory...AMIEN
I have faith that Jesus will sort it out on Judgment Day.
Satan is detouring umc , what a shame
I am an 86-year-old male that has been a United Methodist since the age of six years old and left five years ago. I left because the organization was unable to settle an internal conflict that, if all concerned, were acting like mature Orthodox Methodists, they would find the simple solution.
Those who disagree with the Methodist Discipline have only have one choice: LEAVE! I left, not because I disagreed with the Discipline, but the fact the organization was not strong enough to stand for what Methodism historically preached. It is attempting to delude people that biblical principles can be ignored without the biblical penalties.
The Organization is allowing itself to be thrown into chaos by a minority of deviants from historical beliefs and were not strong enough to leave the organization they no longer believed in. If Bishops, ministers or lay people cannot submit to the Discipline then they are, IN FACT, not Methodist and their only purpose is to further confuse others by claiming they are Methodists.
Dear @Ron Richardson,
Thank you for your relevant and wise comments. I left the UMC, the church of my childhood, many years before you. However, there is still this sentimentality that I have for the UMC. I want to see it come through this issue and become a Godly witness for the Gospel. This whole situation really saddens me.
The solution actually seems so simple if there are enough bold people to take a stand for the historic teachings of the Scriptures.
As you said: " If Bishops, ministers or lay people cannot submit to the Discipline then they are, IN FACT, not Methodist and their only purpose is to further confuse others by claiming they are Methodists."
The discipline should be changed to state that all members of the UMC should support the doctrines and teachings expressed and required in the discipline. If they don't they should be removed from the membership role. If leaders (Bishops, Superintendents, Pastors & other) fail to step down they will be removed by legal means, because they no longer represent the ideologies of the organization.
I will continue to pray that Godly leaders may become vocal to stand for God's standards.
Be Well My Brother in Christ,
DZ
I simply don't understand how they can go against rules
As in a dysfunctional marriage, there are times when it is truly ripe for ending--it needs to be winnowed. The ripeness then minimizes regret and remorse, so that each party can continue with their chosen path unabated. It is hard to the fathom the reality of the situation and how it came to this point; however, reasonable people can chose to disagree. As one who lives and breathes the scriptures and does not consider them to be mere suggestions but rather true markers and guideposts for living, I would hope God's will be done, as I am sure it will be. I love the prayer: May your will, not ours, be done; and may your will and ours be one.
When the votes were in and passage happened, Churches didn't leave the United Methodist Church in the 1970's. What will be your legacy, a process of division or unity? Instead of talking about leaving, how about talking about unity? People remained faithful and remained unified with the United Methodist Church. Seeking a split will only hurt the greater vision of what it means to be a United Methodist. Open Hearts. Open Minds. Open Doors. Let's remain open together. It's easy to leave a relationship, that's the easy road to take. Creating a wedge between people and dividing us and putting a taxonomy in place isn't what Jesus intended for us. Have the courage to remain UNITED. Talk it out, be in communication, open your hearts, open your minds, open your doors. Have the integrity of what you say actually mean what you say. It will take something bigger than you know yourself to be to transform and allow the grace of God into your life. This is the next step, the next transformation within the United Methodist Church. Think of the future of the Church.
how can 2 walk together less they be agreed...the bible
I was going to go to the umc in my area but not now.
sin is sin and you have to put it away .
All means all. We are all equal in the eyes of God. The Bible says to not be a respector of persons. Only God should be guarding the Gates of Heaven.
Has it occurred to the UMC to petition the state to nullify these “marriages” since they were not legally performed in a church which condones them?
Traditional Methodists can chose to become Biblical Christians.
I agree in Ms.
Strange how this could even be a debate! The way forward? There has always been two ways; the way of truth & life, or, the way of lies & death. Out of love we should reach out to all those who fall short, but to allow ourselves to be led astray & say what is wrong is now somehow right, this is not the way to salvation. We must lead by example! If our leaders are allowed to disregard scripture, especially issues which unquestionably are an abomination to the Lord our God, what kind of Church do we now have? You cannot serve two masters! I am so sad for those who love the truth, where will they turn as more & more denominations turn away from sound doctrine.
On the streets of my city I often claim to many how this is a good time to be right with God, to be a Christian. Yet really, where do I point them for fellowship? Is there really a Church today in which Jesus would feel at home? Yes Jesus talked with sinners, but he didn’t promote them to just carry on in sin. WO repenting & sinning no more, there is no hope. How far does grace go, is it not true that Faith WO works is dead? So sorry don’t mean to offend anyone. I pray we all come into the truth & be set free from the bondage of sin. Peace be with you.
Thx for reply, pretty sure we are in agreement. Repent sinners, for the kingdom of God draws near. Are we lead by the Spirit, or do we submit to the desires of the flesh?
Modern-day Christianity is more about organization, being Bible-focused, and having a sanctimonious image of unity than about Jesus and what He would want His Church to be.
This present uproar that United Methodist Church is going through is really about "What would moral Christians think about our acceptance of gay and women pastors."
Please know that Jesus would not support a church's rejection of anyone.
Biblical holiness is Old Testament.
Love, charity, and acceptance is Jesus and New Testament!
Jesus would also not support pre-judging that gay people are all actively living an immoral life.
I am an 87 year old person who was born gay.
I have lived a totally moral life and even experienced an 18 year marriage with 4 children.
Of course, being gay it broke up after 18 years.
Please realize that since God created people to be gay, they are not going to be "scared off the face of the earth" because your church worries about appearance!
Young people understand the human issues involved in love, charity, and acceptance and will not darken the door of a church that is basically uncharitable!!!
I suppose there is no point in appealing to scripture in the effort to maintain unity. God's word has gotten lost in the shuffle, sad commentary.
"These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from
Me. They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts
of men." (Matt 15:8)
The teachings and standards of men are more important that what God says.
Be Well,
I couldn't hear a word he said over the loudness of the tacky altar that looked like it came from Walmart.
Like a child, distracted by the decorations.
i like reading all comments good or bad not a big deal for me because i believe, Man means sin...thatz mine...make sense, bec. it makes the world go arround. yes? or no!..absulotely correct...l.but wait, i love reasing comments and thiz word is always there, every piece never miss! =-=-=-dee -ee -ce -ee -eye -vee -ee -dee=-=-DECEIVED..hows the sensation, does it feel ok and relax uttering thiz word to anyone..im thinking , using thiz to them, my neigbors here in vatican, the roman catholic...but why! i said no..if its true they are also deceived like me....well the right word must be -understand- and interact, then socialize`....hmm almost forgot that is 1 of the general rules of John...as if i really knew John...who? for the last 46 years of my simple life, within that communiuty called UMC, its only now few days , i came to know him John Wesley is the founder of TUMC the builder everything....His surname Wesley i heard that when i was in elementary by my cousin who is a pentecost......that Wesley alone and only once.....whaaaaat!, ive went tru kindergarten, youngerelementary and so on, that was the community The United Methodist Church, u know the reality of that Group UMC, is absulotely amazing, the reason i forgot to ask the man who brought into these world...its real, The UMC as a whole is really a group of people its members We....simple as that, all members of all ages has its role...my younger ones have thier sunday school, and during vacation we have our DVCS
Methodism is not Apostolic and follows a tradition that is at least 1400 years newer than historical Christianity. That is part of the problem. Scripture and 2000 years of unanimous tradition condemns practicing homosexuality; this is historical fact. Methodists, come home to the Orthodox Church. We haven't changed doctrine or theology in 2000 years, and we never will. I'll be praying that all come home to Holy Orthodoxy.
"Somewhat" well said. May Methodists and all other denominationalists go back to the Bible as the source of their faith and practice. PRE-denominational Christianity is not found in the creedbooks of modern man.
Apostolic Tradition is not necessarily found in any one denomination or institutional church. Any church that follows the authentic teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles, as expressed in the first century church, is a church that is founded on and practices genuine Christianity, according to the "Apostolic Tradition".
I do agree with you that the UMC does not follow "Apostolic Tradition" and that is one of the reasons I left the UMC over 40 years ago. This does not mean that there are no Christians in the UMC, because there are some members of the UMC that are Genuine Christians (I personally know some). However there are a lot of members who are not Christians. I do believe we should pray that God would move the remnant of Christians left in the UMC to stand up and hold the standards of God. Perhaps the UMC can recover and become a Church that follows the "Apostolic Tradition".
Be Well,
DZ
What is the issue with gay marriage or, homosexual acts for that matter? Real question....can anyone answer?
Dear @Craig Lee,
Fair question ! I would like to answer some of it. It is complicated but I can give a very basic overview and try to be concise.
"gay marriage or, homosexual acts" are contrary to the Christian Worldview as deemed by God. God is the one who sets the standards, not man, or the church, or the culture, or politics, etc.. As humans, who have chosen to become Christians, who follow God in the teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles and Scripture, we have the goal of conforming our lives to His standards. It is contrary to the Christian worldview to attempt to conform God, to our moral standards and beliefs. This perspective is clearly presented in Rom. 12:1-2:
"I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present
your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is
your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be
transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may
discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and
perfect."
God has proclaimed the behavior of homosexuality to be contrary to His standards, which in essence, means, this behavior is "sin". Sin separates man from God because, God is holy; one of His essential attributes.
People have the tendency to compromise sin and deemphasize the significance of sin. They even make up their own religions that are accepting of, and minimize, sin. This process is essentially the same as taking a piece of wood, carving an idol, and then getting on your knees and worshiping the idol you just made, as your god and creator. Some people can get emotionally and religiously involved in this practice, but they are essentially worshipping a counterfeit religion/gospel.
"And the Lord said: “Because this people draw near with their mouth
and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me, and
their fear of me is a commandment taught by men," (Isa. 29:13)
"These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from
Me. They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts
of men." (Matt 15:8)
There is a lot that could be said about this issue and it is complicated. Unfortunately most Christians, and particularly people who claim to be Christians, are basically Theologically and Biblically illiterate. Sadly, our churches are not even teaching members a course in Christian Systematic Theology. Many are basically incompetent when it comes to understanding the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Scriptures, because our churches are not teaching them the basics of hermeneutics and exegetical procedures. Many have a "zeal for God, but not according to knowledge." (Rom. 10:2). The sentence following this statement, (the next verse) is significant to the issue. Rom. 10:3 says:
"For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to
establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
Their lack of knowledge causes ignorance concerning the "righteousness of God" (His standards of morality), so they set up their own standard of righteousness, and their own standards of morality, and basically throw God's standards out the window. I guess they consider God's thoughts on the issue as irrelevant and of no consequence. This is a strange behavior for those who claim to be following God. Essentially, they are rejecting God. And they criticize those who try to follow God's standards, as being intolerant and obsolete.
I hope this give a little perspective of the Christian Worldview on this issue.
Be Well
DZ
it is the un-united methodist.
some methodist married gay marriage.