David, you are doing excellent, interesting and informative videos, but seriously for almost any subject you are addressing, there would have been so many examples in Sting songs and I feel like you barely ever mention one. Actually now was the first time I ever saw you use one (Synchronicity). He does lots of songs in all sorts of unusual time signatures, from 3/4 to 9/8 and almost anything in between, many are in 7/4 or 7/8, a few in 5/4 etc. Rick Beato analyzed two Sting songs on his "What makes this song great" (Synchronicity II and Fortress around your heart), not for their time signatures but for their interesting harmonies. So keep up the good work and I'd love to help you find good examples on Sting and Police songs for one of your next videos!
@@Marc310380 I was thinking today that I should feature Sting more! I discussed his song "I Hung My Head" in my 3/4 vs 6/8 video. And I also talked about When We Dance in my Lydian video. He's an amazing songwriter!
@@DavidBennettPiano Oh wow, see I hadn't seen these. Like we all have our respective favourite musicians, he is my personal god of music ;) I know all of his songs by heart and play and sing them a lot. Of course you win, since he says the Beatles were his role models and even enabled him to pursue his own career by following their example, being ordinary boys from a working class town in the North of England. But my offer was and is sincere, feel free to hit me up when you are on the lookout for certain intriguing examples on one of your next video subjects, and I am sure I will be able to name a few from the Sting catalogue from the top of my head. Take care and keep doing what you do, it's great!
Glad you guys got the reference, lol. Thom talks about being "happy to serve" in both "Daydreaming" and "Plasticine Figures". I wonder why it means so much to him.
Yes! AND Thom Yorke particularly Last I Heard He Was Circling the Drain! Please explain why it sounds so different live and why the chorus seems so out of step. I think I get it but would love to see and hear it explained. czcams.com/video/1J4qYS4nsj8/video.html Third and final song is Last I Heard LIVE
I like to think of 6/4 as a longer version of 4/4 and that 3/4 strictly has a waltz feel. If the music does not feel waltzy, I would say that it always is in 6/4.
yeah, to add onto that, the songs like electric feel and his outro have accents that break up the waltz feel if they were 3/4, ONE two THREE ONE two three.
I think the song "Piledriver Waltz" by Alex Turner is the best example for the difference between 3/4 and 6/4- The verses are undeniably in 6/4, and for the chorus he makes a very noticable switch to 3/4. Even though they are similar time signatures they play very different roles in the song
Yeah Piledriver Waltz is an especially clear example of both beats occuring in the same song. The 6/4 verses are back-leaning and the 3/4 choruses forward-leaning. The 6/4 beat is feminine-pagan, lunar, and communicates ambiguity, questions, observations, and revels in worldly and sensual things. The 3/4 beat is solar and masculine, it's decisive and fleet footed, more aggressive, maybe more bellicose, but if not aggressive it can just as easily be airy and formal, like a waltz. It is either Christian or patriarchal Euro-pagan. 'Electric Feel' is definitely 6/4 in spirit and aesthetic content. It's an earthy, worldly, sexy, exotic song about a sort of goddess, not a song that rocks or leans forward. This is a pagan, amazonian, feminine, lunar song. If you played Electric Feel live and emphasized the 3rd beat, it would start to rock a little bit. It would enact a different sort of sexuality. The 3/4 woman is the object of my desire. The 6/4 woman is the subject of my worship. Alice in Chains is a very solar, masculine, northern European metal band, and loves to use beats of 3, whether it's 7/4 or 3/4.
You seem to understand this topic and is familiar with Arctic Monkeys, I wonder what you think about Nettles (the B-side for Teddy Picker)? I was looking up the tabs and it... is a mix of 3/4, 4/4, 5/4 and 6/4???
Another vote for 6/4 here, because of the drums. While the example he played is kind of ambiguous, later on in the song they switch to this galloping tom + snare rock beat, hitting the snare on every 2nd beat. That part is definitely not 3/4.
I don't get why people insist 6/4 is just 3/4 twice, it is but it's just neater to write it as 6/4. Especially for a song like this where the time signature doesn't really change all that much at all
My favourite example of 6/4 in a metal song is the intro to "Almost Easy" by Avenged Sevenfold. It only lasts about 15 seconds, but it definitely gets you feeling something is different and hooks you in before it launches into 4/4 for the rest of the song.
You guys are expert listeners. You figured out the time signature? I felt like I had arrived as a Tool fan when I could just *hear* the beat on Aenema before the drums start 😆
I suppose time signature is tool to allow musicians to convay information to each other and 5/4 - 7/4 and 2x6/4 are just different translations of the same thing.
I've never heard of anyone counting the main riff of Schism in 6/4... 5/8 + 7/8 which you could simplify as 6/4, but that completely removes the feeling from it
6/4 was very much my bridge into odd time signatures. It feels even enough that it's accessible to most, but odd enough to be noticeable and spark an intrigue in what else you can do with uneven rhythms. Believe it or not the first place I encountered it was in the original Spyro the Dragon soundtrack.
Coldplay has 2 songs that I know of in 6/4. First is “We Never Change” off of Parachutes. The last one I know of is the new “Coloratura” off of Music of the Spheres. In the string and glockenspiel section, he song enters a 6/4 time signature before changing to a shuffled 5/4 time signature.
There are two other songs from Viva la Vida that have odd time signatures, such as “Glass of Water” which is in 7/4 and “Death and all of His Friends” which is in 7/8.
Soundgarden's "Fell on Black Days" is the perfect 6/4 rock song for me. The tempo is appropriate to feel the quarter note beat, the drums accent 2 4 and 6, the phrasing supports a 6 beat bar length, it doesn't really feel like 4/4 plus 2/4 and is very consistent about it (even through some of the beatless sections)(but not all). They count in as if the song will be in 4, but that's part of the hook. 6/4 is not two bars of 3/4 because the 4th beat is unaccented. If the 4th beat is accented that disqualifies 6/4 in my book: use 6/8 or 2 bars of 3/4. I'd write 6/4 when it feels like a quite slow 3/2. This is how "Fell on Black Days" feels to me.
So I literally heard this song today in my Spotify favorites after favoriting it on a binge of nostalgia from my childhood. Today knowing what I know about time signatures the first thing I did was count 6/4 then googled "6/4 time signature songs soundgarden" and this was the first video that came up. I CTRL F my keyboard for "sound" and yeah.... Feelsgoodman, thank you.
Electric Feel's got a Weird Feel! Can't decide how I hear that one! I really like 6/4. One of my favorite songs in 6/4 is "Eraser" by Nine Inch Nails. The drum groove is epic. EDIT: or...it could be 3/2.
Watcher of the skies - Genesis is also on 6/4, and i thint it is a great example of a song that (technically could, but) can’t be writen in 3/4 nor 4/4 + 2/4
Genesis were so masterful with their use of odd meter. They could make it nearly imperceptible like how Turn it on Again is in 13, or they could make it the main attraction like on Down and Out with it's really weird angular 5/4 feel It's almost like David makes a conscious effort to not mention them lol
@@Aquatarkus96 He probably avoids prog artists, because by definition, prog bands like genesis and yes push the boundaries, if i included them every example in every video would be them
There's actually another 6/4 Song by Foo Fighters that works as a great example: Miss The Misery from their Wasting Light album. The riff and verses are in 6/4, the first 4 beats of the riff form one clear phrase, answered by the last 2 beats. This song also switches to 4/4 for the prechorus and chorus, which adds relief.
I was hoping Fell on Black Days would get a mention. Soundgarden really had an affinity for unusual time signatures! Also I am absolutely _squealing_ at the Courtney Barnett mention. She's great!
I've noticed that 3/4 tends to accent the first and third beats while 6/4 more often than not accents beats 1, 3, and 5. I hear both Electric Feel and your song at the end in 3/4 because of this.
These are all the songs he mentions in this video: Schism - TOOL Fell on Black Days - Soundgarden Full Stop - Radiohead Pick up Sticks - Dave Brubeck Quartet Everybody's Jumping - Dave Brubeck Quartet Galvanize - The Chemical Brothers Enough Space - Foo Fighters Dam That River - Alice in Chains Synchronicity 1 - The Police Crippling Self Doubt and a General Lack of Confidence - Courtney Barnett Take Me to Church - Hozier Electric Feel - MGMT Nocturne Op. 9, No. 1 - Frédéric Chopin
When I was learning how to play, “ Shine on you Crazy Diamond.” By Pink Floyd. I found out it was in 6/4. My guitar teacher said it was a compound waltz. Makes sense after this video.
@@GaZonk100 No reason. 6/4 and 6/8 are exactly the same thing, simply with different note values. What is notated as quarter notes in 6/4 is notated as 8th notes in 6/8. I guess people choose 6/4 when the tempo is slow enough, so that you actually feel it in 6, and 6/8 when you feel it more as two beats with 3 subdivisions each. Shine on You Crazy Diamond is so slow that you actually feel it in 6, which is why 6/4 may feel more natural. But something like Hallelujah isn't really felt in 6 - you feel it in 2, and each beat has 3 subdivisions. Nothing would stop you from writing Hallelujah in 6/4, or Shine on You Crazy Diamond in 6/8, though. Note values are relative, not absolute, and the only thing that defines quarter note as a quarter note is its relationship to other note values. These days, it's common to equate quarter notes with the pulse of the song. But nothing really stops you from choosing half note or 8th note as the pulse. But because people are used to certain note values feeling slower and other note values feeling faster, it might seem weird to use longer note values in a really fast tempo (or shorter note values in a really slow tempo), which is why fast 6/4 or slow 6/8 may be more difficult to read, because the notation looks "slow" when the music is fast or vice versa.
@@MaggaraMarine I disagree. 3/4 and 6/4 are very close, the difference as shown in the video. 6/8 on the other hand, has a very different feel, with as you say the accent on the 1st and 4th. It's compound time since we have 2 beats, each split into three. 6/4 is simple time. Of course you could rewrite a 6/4 piece in 6/8, but as is said in the video, this would give completely the wrong idea to the performer.
@@iain_nakada Look up pieces that are written in 6/4, and you'll find a lot of them that sound like 6/8 (you just don't know that they are written in 6/4, because the difference between 6/4 and 6/8 really can't be heard in those cases - it's simply about how the pieces were notated, and which note value was chosen as the beat). Liebestraum no.3 would be a good example. Forlane from Bach's 1st Orchestral Suite would be an even better example. If you want a more modern example, I'd Give It All for You from Songs for a New World is written in 6/4 (I know this because I have seen the original sheet music). Definitely has what most people would describe as a 6/8 feel. BTW, sometimes the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 is also kind of arbitrary. One bar of slow 6/8 may feel like two bars of fast 3/4 (or vice versa). For example the Scherzo from Beethoven's 5th Symphony is written in really fast 3/4, even though to me it has more of a 6/8 feel (I would count it as one two one two, but the way Beethoven wrote it basically makes you feel it as "one, one, one, one", where the beats are notated as dotted half notes, and the quarter notes are super fast). Traditionally, 6/4 is a compound duple meter. When you combine two 3/4 bars, you get one bar of 6/4. And combining two 3/4 bars gives the music a 3+3 feel. Two beats (1st and 4th beats) in a bar get more emphasis than the others. Now, you can use 6/4 without a distinct 3+3 feel, but that's not how the time signature has been used historically. If the 6 beats are in groups of 2, 3/2 would often be a more appropriate time signature. And BTW, I don't 100% agree with the video. The point it made in the end was good, though. As he said, 6/4 may appear to be a rare time signature, because some pieces that feel like 3/4 are notated in 6/4. But also (and the video didn't mention this) because some pieces that feel like 6/8 are notated in 6/4. Basically, it's a time signature that lacks a clear identity, and a lot of 6/4 pieces may be described either as 6/8 or 3/4 (these are the most common ways of notating the two most common feels of 6/4 pieces). The main point here is, the "bottom number" of a time signature can't be heard. It's simply about which note values you would use to notate the piece. But there's really nothing that makes 6/4 distinct from 6/8 or 6/16. People just tend to default to 6/8, because that's the most common 6/x time signature.
Piledriver Waltz by Alex Turner is a really interesting example because the verses are definitely in 6/4 as they are clearly divided into 3 groups of 2 beats whilst the chorus then switches to a 3/4 waltz feel with 2 groups of 3 beats instead
Another excellent example. :-) Definitely one of those "just chop off the end of the phrase for effect" songs, a bit like Joan Jett's "I Love Rock and Roll", or Blondie's "Heart of Glass".
I always told myself that if I ever had a band I would push for sheet music to come with every cd or vynil so people could learn it without having to rely on mostly inaccurate tabs or sheets online
These are great videos of you going through songs with all kinds of different time signatures! Keep it up to go through all of them that’s usually popular if you can and then maybe the more obscure proggy type ones if you don’t mind with composite meters and such.
Danny Elfman was obsessed with using phrases of six during his time in Oingo Boingo, most notably in songs such as "Nasty Habits," "Little Girls," and "Dead Man's Party.
@@deathoftheendless001 You could definitely do that, but you could also write 4/4 as 3/4 + 1/4 but that would make no sense. In the same way it makes no sense to view schism in 6/4. Everything points to alternating 5/8 and 7/8.
@@timdedecker7894 yeah I agree on that, for me I hear 5/8 7/8 more than 6/4 everytime I listen to that tune. And I think it would be easy to play if it is to be seen as that instead of 6/4
I wonder how many bands, especially those without formal music education and at the start of their careers, really know what time signature their music is in. The guitar, drums and bass jam together, get a nice groove going, and that's the basis of the song. Months later a producer might tell them it's in 4/4 or 6/4 😁
Depends. Yeah anyone can play 4/4 (and maybe even 3/4, 6/8, 12/8) spontaneously but I can't imagine very many garage bands just spontaneously starting to jam in 7/8 or 5/4. That's going to be a conscious decision by somebody.
@@wingracer1614 But if you're writing by yourself on a computer it's very easy to go twiddly, twiddly, twiddly and end up with something in 15/16 or what have you, because you can write more by feel and don't have to have someone else follow along. And you still might not know what time signature it is!
I don't know how to read sheet music, but your time signature videos have helped me gain a lot information I didn't have prior to watching them! You've also given me a new writing topic for when my english teacher gives us free write days lol
I think Electric Feel is 6/4 because to me it feels like "one two THREE FOUR one? two?" In other words, 4/4 with accents on the end and a weird, added two beats.
Multiple tracks on the Undertale soundtrack are in 6/4, and they are mainly ones that use the "Ruins" leitmotif. The three I can think of are: - Ruins - Spear Of Justice - NGAHHH!! The leitmotif is used in other tracks too, but is shifted to 3/4 or even changed to fit a 4/4 rhythm (like in "Battle Against A True Hero")
Pixies love mixing 4/4 and 6/4 in their songs: - In 'No. 13 Baby' the outro alternates between 4/4 and 6/4. - They also alternate between 6/4 and 4/4 in the chorus of 'Dig for Fire'. - The coda in 'Alec Eiffel' has a total of 22 beats grouped together, which I count as 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 6/4.
Keep it dark is a very interesting Genesis song from the early 80s in many ways. Not only that its written in 6/4 but also with a distinctly syncopated rhythm guitar part.
Starting with one of the songs with the most debated time signatures in recent memory, ballsy move. Personally, when I think of Tool and 6/4, I think of the chorus to Stinkfist.
From 1966, the musically hallucinatory 'B' section from "Cabinessence" by Brian Wilson. Followed by a 'C' section in 6/8 where the bass is overlaid in 6/4.
Rabbit in Your Headlights is a delightful specimen. Most of the song is in 9/8 but the it builds to a crescendo, and breaks into a strong quarter-note-feeling 6.
David I love your stuff! It was my understanding Schism is in 5/8 + 7/8 While i know it's the same as 6/4 in terms of the cycle length the 2 3 2 2 3 grouping of accents is a big part of that song
It's funny because he said that 6/4 songs are harder to find than 5/4 songs, yet Schism is one of the only 5/4 songs I can think of and then he says it's in 6/4 anyway😂😂
I think 5/8 + 7/8 makes it easy to conceptualise the song when you're performing it. However, if you were reading this song off a page, you'd probably prefer it to be 6/4. There are a lot of examples of songs that could be thought of in this kind of way. For example, you could even say that Clocks by Coldplay is 3/8 + 3/8 + 2/8, and that might make it easier to think about, but it would be weird to not writing the song down in 4/4. 😊
@@DavidBennettPiano Lol for sure, just Sciscm has a really unique rhythmic seperation compared to most other songs. It is a pain to read things with a lot of time changes, but where is the appropriate time to use them? I'm guessing when it's complex enough that we can't make it easier to read? Regardless bro, I really do enjoy your videos! Keep up the good work.
@@ChemBoy613 thanks! Personally I really find Schism naturally falls into 6/4 much better than 5/8+7/8. But at the end of the day, it’s two sides of the same coin 😃
That Courtney Barnett example reminds me of "Wave of Mutilation" by the Pixies, except "Wave" is in 4/4 in the verses and 6/4 in the chorus. "Dead" is another good example in 6/4.
Camille Saint-Saëns' The Swan is in 6/4. The 'cello leads with 6 crotchets that work naturally. The piano accompaniment has two rolling sequences - 4 semiquavers going up-up-down-down underneath 6 quavers going up-up-down-down-up. A great feeling of running water to support the 'cello's swan-like calm movements.
Schism is a repeating 5/8 + 7/8, because drum and vocals accents on second bar (and first too) is nothing like 6/4. Just try to play it and you'll see that reading and counting in 5/8 + 7/8 is much easier than in 6/4. Also, in chorus it clearly goes to 6/8 + 7/8, prolonging the last note of first bar and playing around with drum patterns. Writing it in 13/8 would be super inconvenient for a performer to read. But there is actually two times when vocals go in 6/4 (or rather 3/4) while everything else stays in 5/8 + 7/8. One of the times It's on lyrics "i've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing". It's super confusing, and took me I think two years to understand it and kinda feel it, or at least to know what is going on. I still need to concentrate on one of the things and can't hear and feel both at the same time.
"Although at least a few of you will say that my piece is actually in 3/4." Yep. :-) Definitely "One and and, Two and and", with the accents on the one and four. But each "phrase" feels like a pair, so 6/4 is fine too. :-)
I saw Dave Grohl in the thumbnail but couldn't think of a Foo Fighters song in 6/4. Enough Space is a great underrated track and I wasn't expecting it! Edit: The Foos also have a song called Making A Fire, which uses 6/4. I was reminded by the rhythm of Electric Feel in this video
Your "Take me to church" example is interesting. When are you "allowed" to divide or double the time signature, while doubling or dividing the tempo? When is a 6/4 at 120bpm the same as a 3/2 (or 6/8) at 60bpm? Are you allowed to change from one to the other any time you want?
You can write it any way you want - you can even write it without a time signature altogether. But a time signature communicates the feel of a piece of sheet music to the performer, and the way they choose to interpret a tune can vary wildly depending on notation like this.
3/2 would be more accurate than 6/4 in this case, since there are still 3 accents per bar. You kind of feel it in groups of 2 (1-2 2-2 3-2), even if you feel it in 6. The difference between 3/2 and 3/4 is a lot more subtle, and sometimes there's no difference. These days, I would use 3/2 for songs that are felt in 6, but use groups of 2 beats, and 3/4 for songs that are felt in 3. But in older pieces, 3/2 and 3/4 are many times used interchangeably. It's the same thing with different note values. Note values are relative, not absolute. Anything that's in 3/4 could technically also be notated in 3/8 or 3/2. But especially these days when people see longer note values, they think "slow", and when they see shorter note values, they think "fast", which is why notating something fast in 3/2, or something slow in 3/8 may feel confusing to the reader (this hasn't always been the case - just look at some slow Bach pieces, and you'll see a lot of really fast note values like 32nd and even 64th notes). But really, you can't hear a clear difference between 3/2, 3/4 and 3/8. Well, sometimes you can. But a lot of the time, there isn't any difference (which is why people usually default to 3/4 - that's the most familiar time signature to most people).
I don't see this in the comments, but apologies if I'm being redundant. Rush - Freewill. The verse alternates between 6/4 and 7/4, with both being emphasized, where it feels like 4/4 + 2/4, then 4/4 + 3/4. Pre-chorus goes to 4/4. Then I think the chorus is 8/4 alternating with 7/4. It's a really interesting song structure that still became one of their "hits".
"To The End" is a great song! It alternates between 6/4 and 4/4 but I didn't think it was a pure enough example for this video. I may feature it in another upcoming video though!
The song march of the s.o.d by the metal band s.o.d is great example of 6/4, 5/4 ,7/4 and even 8/4 As it uses all these time signatures and 4/4 alternating between different sections. The first/main riff is in 6/4, the second is in 7/4, the third is in 8/4 and other riffs are either in 4/4 or 5/4
one band that kickstarted my obsession with nonstandard time signatures a few years ago is biffy clyro, and their newest album uses 6/4 (and 7/4) a LOT. my favourite of those songs is probably the pink limit, which plays around with the accents in the verse, so it sometimes becomes ambiguous if the part is subdivided in groups of 2 bars of 6/4 or 3 bars of 4/4
I haven't played Most Wanted (2012) for over 6 years so hearing Galvanize slapped me with the most nostalgia Ive ever felt in my 16 years of being alive
ˊ6/4 is actually a compound time signature, similar to 6/8. In fact it works in the same way (just rescale the note lengths so that the 8th notes become quarters and so on) Most of the examples in this video is in 4/4+2/4, not 6/4. They're different. 6:43 "Although we can technically write down the song in 3/4, we wouldn't be doing the performer any favor if we did so." I don't think we would be doing the performer any favor by writing it down in 6/4 either, when the song's in 4/4+2/4. By the same reason, Electric Feel is in 4/4+2/4.
Even though 6/4 is traditionally a compound meter, when people think of 6/4 nowdays most people probably think of 4/4 with 2 extra beats, wich also adds up to 6 beats in total, so why can't it mean both things? It can also avoid unecessary alternating time signatures every bar, so i'd say you *would* be doing the performer some favor by writing that in 6/4, but even if you stick to thinking "6/4 can ONLY be used as a compound duple meter and a compound duple meter ONLY, any other way to use it is objectively incorrect" you can still use 3/2 wich would also avoid constantly alternating time signatures, but i think the most helpful option would be to just use 6/4 but include "felt in 2" as an instruction to clarify to the people who still think of 6/4 as a compound duple meter (wich at this point i'm assuming even most of them would know that's not always how it's used)
@@Wind-nj5xz But for instance, in 4/4+2/4, the second quarter note is on a beat (albeit a weak beat), while in 3/2, it's on the offbeat. So they're still not the same. Also, writing 4/4+2/4 doesn't require alternating time signatures every bar. You just write two time signatures in the usual way and put a + in the middle, and you place it like normal time signatures. Then each bar will be as long as 6 quarter notes, but the stress pattern would be the same as alternating 4/4 and 2/4. "when people think of 6/4 nowdays most people probably think of 4/4 with 2 extra beats" Most people don't even read the official sheet music along when listening to a pop or rock song, whether it's because the original artists didn't write one in the first place, or they can't read sheet music, or they're unable to purchase the sheet music for whatever reason... Most of the time people hearing a song won't have any idea if in the producer's software they used alternating 4/4 and 2/4, or 6/4. Technically speaking there's even the possibility of them setting the time signature to 12/8 while tweaking the nuances of each track (even though the song might not be meant to be felt as in 12/8) Btw, the notation 4/4+2/4 was used by Bartok and many other classical composers (who actually dictated the time signature in their scores). So it's actually been around for a while.
@@19divide53 Yes, most people won't read the sheet music when listening to a pop or rock song, what i mean is when people hear about a song in a 6/4 time signature, they're probably expecting a 4+2 feel, people who can recognize the time signature just from listening will probably call it 6/4, and most people who can ready sheet music are probably at least aware that some people use 6/4 for both things even if they still think of the second option as "incorrect"
@@Wind-nj5xz "most people who can ready sheet music are probably at least aware that some people use 6/4 for both things even if they still think of the second option as "incorrect"" just like how most people who knows their elementary science are probably aware of the fact that there are people who actually believe the Earth is flat?
@@19divide53 I mean, at least a musician reading a 4+2 piece written in 6/4 would probably think "Oh, that same mistake of writing in 6/4 when they mean 4+2/4, whatever i can still read this" i can see where you're coming from when you say it's incorrect but "not doing the performer any favor" made me think it would be confusing to read in the same way a 6/4 song written in 3/4 would. Ultimately though i think it's kinda stupid that only songs who use it as a compound meter can be called 6/4, it's like the thing about 9/8 where it's traditionally a compound triple meter but no one cares if you use it as odd groupings of 2, 3 or 4 (like 4+5 for example) as long as you adjust the beaming to reflect that, you might argue the thing about 6/4 vs 4+2/4 is more similar to 6/8 vs 3/4 and to an extent i agree, but i'd say it's also to an extent different. For example, writing a song in 6/8 as 3/4 wouldn't be doing the performer any favor because it implies 3 evenly spaced quarter notes per bar, wich won't be the rythm that is accented in the song, the other way around though (writing a 3/4 song in 6/8) can technically be done without implying another rythm that won't be accented during the song if you adjust the beaming to indicate a 2+2+2 rythm, but there's no need for doing so when 3/4 is literally made for that and most people also associate 6/8 with a dotted quarter note accent, so it would be weird to use it for something other than that, and i'm not even sure if it's possible to have a rythm that can fit into 6/8 but doesn't feel like either 3 quarter notes or 2 dotted quarters, but if i'm wrong and you know a song that has something like that please let me know. For 6/4 on the other hand it's a bit different, most people either associate it with a 4+2 feel or know it can be both 4+2 or 3+3 (just like 6/8 i'm not even sure you can make it feel like anything else unless you start messing with eighth or sixteenth notes but then another time signature would probably be better in that case) and not only that, but if you think about 6/4 as like a slow 6/8, it can actually become sort of subjective when to use 6/4 vs 6/8. You might still be thinking "But 6/8 exists because people felt like the difference between 3+3 and 2+2+2 was different enough they needed different time signatures to describe it" and while i can see where you're coming from, i kinda disagree that 4+2/4 is even a time signature really, it's literally just alternating time signatures written in a way that says "Hey, please count these in your head as alternating time signatures but we haven't notated them as such because we don't want the page to look messy" while it does the job of correctly indicating the rythmic accents of the song, it implies that there is no time signature that does that aside from a combination of time signatures. Schism by Tool is another case that comes to mind about this, the verses alternate between 5/8 and 7/8, could you use 5+7/8? Absolutely, but you can also use 12/8 but adjust the beaming to indicate 3+2+3+2, though i think 5+7/8 would be better in that case because even with the beaming adjusted, it could confuse some people into thinking it's in a compound feel because most people associate 12/8 with that, but even then, i would certainly not call that an incorrect way of notating it.
Thank you once more for an enjoyable and educating video! Pineapple Head by Crowded House is in 6/8, that's the nearest I could get from the sheet music I have. Would be good to see them feature in a future video. How about a video on songs in 12/8? I know a couple of those.
I jammed out a riff that happened to be in 6/4 and have next to no theory knowledge, so this is actually really helpful for acclimatizing myself to the time signature
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musiversal.typeform.com/david-bennett 🎹😁
@Bunkey get writing!!
David, you are doing excellent, interesting and informative videos, but seriously for almost any subject you are addressing, there would have been so many examples in Sting songs and I feel like you barely ever mention one. Actually now was the first time I ever saw you use one (Synchronicity). He does lots of songs in all sorts of unusual time signatures, from 3/4 to 9/8 and almost anything in between, many are in 7/4 or 7/8, a few in 5/4 etc. Rick Beato analyzed two Sting songs on his "What makes this song great" (Synchronicity II and Fortress around your heart), not for their time signatures but for their interesting harmonies. So keep up the good work and I'd love to help you find good examples on Sting and Police songs for one of your next videos!
@@Marc310380 I was thinking today that I should feature Sting more! I discussed his song "I Hung My Head" in my 3/4 vs 6/8 video. And I also talked about When We Dance in my Lydian video. He's an amazing songwriter!
@@DavidBennettPiano Oh wow, see I hadn't seen these. Like we all have our respective favourite musicians, he is my personal god of music ;) I know all of his songs by heart and play and sing them a lot. Of course you win, since he says the Beatles were his role models and even enabled him to pursue his own career by following their example, being ordinary boys from a working class town in the North of England. But my offer was and is sincere, feel free to hit me up when you are on the lookout for certain intriguing examples on one of your next video subjects, and I am sure I will be able to name a few from the Sting catalogue from the top of my head.
Take care and keep doing what you do, it's great!
@Bunkey Send me the lyrics after you wrote it
It took less than a minute to get to Radiohead. This must be a new record.
He should start a video by just saying “Radiohead”
@@enshen2190 "The sponsor of this video is Radiohead. Not really, I just wanted to advertise them."
"Radiohead of course has a few songs that are pi over the square root of -1 measures per bar and played using various flavors of jello."
I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed that. Geez! Is Thom Yorke paying him?
I wish there was a new record
*Almost every David video about music theory:* exists.
*Thom Yorke:* I'm just happy to serve you.
He is so far in the thumbnail of all 3 of my odd time signature videos!
He's happy to serve
@@DaniloSilva-pl3sq nice
@@DaniloSilva-pl3sq Happy to linger
Glad you guys got the reference, lol. Thom talks about being "happy to serve" in both "Daydreaming" and "Plasticine Figures". I wonder why it means so much to him.
You should look at this band called "Radiohead". They have some songs that might fit your videos topics
You say? Despite Dave Bennett making references to Thom Yorke's music in this very video? ;-)
he's not 'there' yet, lol...
Yes! AND Thom Yorke particularly Last I Heard He Was Circling the Drain! Please explain why it sounds so different live and why the chorus seems so out of step. I think I get it but would love to see and hear it explained.
czcams.com/video/1J4qYS4nsj8/video.html
Third and final song is Last I Heard LIVE
They have a very niche and unknown song called "crepe" which he should definitely make a full video about
@@papagynther6905 it's their best song right?
What happens when David runs out of Radiohead and Beatles songs that fit his topics?
the end of the world
Then there's David Bowie
@@jeremiahlyleseditor437 and Björk
UN. POSSIBLE.
Deletes Channel
I like to think of 6/4 as a longer version of 4/4 and that 3/4 strictly has a waltz feel. If the music does not feel waltzy, I would say that it always is in 6/4.
yeah, to add onto that, the songs like electric feel and his outro have accents that break up the waltz feel if they were 3/4, ONE two THREE ONE two three.
or 6/8
I think the song "Piledriver Waltz" by Alex Turner is the best example for the difference between 3/4 and 6/4-
The verses are undeniably in 6/4, and for the chorus he makes a very noticable switch to 3/4. Even though they are similar time signatures they play very different roles in the song
Great song choice! Perfect example of this concept
Yeah Piledriver Waltz is an especially clear example of both beats occuring in the same song. The 6/4 verses are back-leaning and the 3/4 choruses forward-leaning. The 6/4 beat is feminine-pagan, lunar, and communicates ambiguity, questions, observations, and revels in worldly and sensual things. The 3/4 beat is solar and masculine, it's decisive and fleet footed, more aggressive, maybe more bellicose, but if not aggressive it can just as easily be airy and formal, like a waltz. It is either Christian or patriarchal Euro-pagan.
'Electric Feel' is definitely 6/4 in spirit and aesthetic content. It's an earthy, worldly, sexy, exotic song about a sort of goddess, not a song that rocks or leans forward. This is a pagan, amazonian, feminine, lunar song. If you played Electric Feel live and emphasized the 3rd beat, it would start to rock a little bit. It would enact a different sort of sexuality. The 3/4 woman is the object of my desire. The 6/4 woman is the subject of my worship.
Alice in Chains is a very solar, masculine, northern European metal band, and loves to use beats of 3, whether it's 7/4 or 3/4.
You seem to understand this topic and is familiar with Arctic Monkeys, I wonder what you think about Nettles (the B-side for Teddy Picker)? I was looking up the tabs and it... is a mix of 3/4, 4/4, 5/4 and 6/4???
Hmm, I feel Electric Feel by MGMT is in 6/4.
It is.
Another vote for 6/4 here, because of the drums. While the example he played is kind of ambiguous, later on in the song they switch to this galloping tom + snare rock beat, hitting the snare on every 2nd beat. That part is definitely not 3/4.
It definitely is.
I don't get why people insist 6/4 is just 3/4 twice, it is but it's just neater to write it as 6/4. Especially for a song like this where the time signature doesn't really change all that much at all
Was hoping it would get mentioned in this video
Electric Feel is in 6/4 because of the phrasing of the bass line. If it weren’t for that, you could totally say 3/4.
Agree but disagree about the last sentence. The drums also heavily define the 6/4
also the higher melody is very clearly 6/4 cause it always skips a 16th (i guess) after the 1
How? If you're going to interpret it in 3/4 the bassline is accenting beat 1 of every other bar
@@Wind-nj5xz sure, but the drums are heaaavily accenting the 1 of a 6/4 beat
Sounds like 4/4 + an extra 2 beats to me
My favourite example of 6/4 in a metal song is the intro to "Almost Easy" by Avenged Sevenfold. It only lasts about 15 seconds, but it definitely gets you feeling something is different and hooks you in before it launches into 4/4 for the rest of the song.
I've always counted the main riff in Schism as alternating 5/8 and 7/8. Counting it in 6/4 is really weird and difficult for me
Yeah, I thought it was alternating time signatures
I feel that Schism is kind of polymetric. I think both are valid arguments depending on the instrument you follow
Yeah I've heard it's generally accepted, if not also defined by the band I think, that its I alternating 5/8 and 7/8. I couldn't follow the 6/4.
You guys are expert listeners. You figured out the time signature? I felt like I had arrived as a Tool fan when I could just *hear* the beat on Aenema before the drums start 😆
I suppose time signature is tool to allow musicians to convay information to each other and 5/4 - 7/4 and 2x6/4 are just different translations of the same thing.
I've never heard of anyone counting the main riff of Schism in 6/4... 5/8 + 7/8 which you could simplify as 6/4, but that completely removes the feeling from it
Came here to say this. Who knows if it’s intentional (it’s Tool, so probably), but it’s a “split” (or schism) in the music.
For sure, but you would probably write it as 6/4 or 6/8. If I saw a song alternating between 5/8 and 7/8, I'd probably have a breakdown.
Yeah definitely wasnt expecting that to be here. If not 5/8 + 7/8 then I would have guessed 12/8
I immediately came to the comments to bring this up. I would never notate Schism in 6/4.
Great to see Courtney Barnett getting recognition. She is amazing. Such a talented poet and musician
I just found her recently and I am in love with her music
Some day David will run out of Thom Yorke pictures to put in the thumbnails.
6/4 was very much my bridge into odd time signatures. It feels even enough that it's accessible to most, but odd enough to be noticeable and spark an intrigue in what else you can do with uneven rhythms. Believe it or not the first place I encountered it was in the original Spyro the Dragon soundtrack.
I always felt Electric Feel as 4 + 2 and not as 3 + 3, so I believe 6/4 is the more accurate time signature.
So did I; I remember trying to figure this out when the song came out. 4/4 + 2/4 might be better than 6/4.
I read it as 6/4, with the first, third and fourth beats accented. if it was 4/4 and 2/4, there would be no accent in the second measure at all
Ditto with Synchronicity 1.
There's a video of MGMT recording it and you can hear the metronome counts in 6/4! :)
Coldplay has 2 songs that I know of in 6/4. First is “We Never Change” off of Parachutes. The last one I know of is the new “Coloratura” off of Music of the Spheres. In the string and glockenspiel section, he song enters a 6/4 time signature before changing to a shuffled 5/4 time signature.
There are two other songs from Viva la Vida that have odd time signatures, such as “Glass of Water” which is in 7/4 and “Death and all of His Friends” which is in 7/8.
Soundgarden's "Fell on Black Days" is the perfect 6/4 rock song for me. The tempo is appropriate to feel the quarter note beat, the drums accent 2 4 and 6, the phrasing supports a 6 beat bar length, it doesn't really feel like 4/4 plus 2/4 and is very consistent about it (even through some of the beatless sections)(but not all). They count in as if the song will be in 4, but that's part of the hook.
6/4 is not two bars of 3/4 because the 4th beat is unaccented. If the 4th beat is accented that disqualifies 6/4 in my book: use 6/8 or 2 bars of 3/4. I'd write 6/4 when it feels like a quite slow 3/2. This is how "Fell on Black Days" feels to me.
So I literally heard this song today in my Spotify favorites after favoriting it on a binge of nostalgia from my childhood. Today knowing what I know about time signatures the first thing I did was count 6/4 then googled "6/4 time signature songs soundgarden" and this was the first video that came up. I CTRL F my keyboard for "sound" and yeah....
Feelsgoodman, thank you.
Electric Feel's got a Weird Feel! Can't decide how I hear that one! I really like 6/4. One of my favorite songs in 6/4 is "Eraser" by Nine Inch Nails. The drum groove is epic. EDIT: or...it could be 3/2.
Was also thinking of nine in nails!
‘The Collector’ alternates between 6/4 and 7/4 and they throw in some 4/4 for the chorus
@@julioestebanortiz-zamora5387 Oh yeah! That measure in 7/4 is like a little "gotcha!", like it throws you off even further.
This video would;ve been very helpful to me years ago when I was still trying to learn music.
2:37 "cover by the Foo Forgers"
You're getting more creative with your copyrights now lol
Tribute bands are a great sources of very faithful-sounding covers!
Watcher of the skies - Genesis is also on 6/4, and i thint it is a great example of a song that (technically could, but) can’t be writen in 3/4 nor 4/4 + 2/4
"Watcher" is a most excellent example. :-)
Plus every beat is a quadruplet
Genesis were so masterful with their use of odd meter. They could make it nearly imperceptible like how Turn it on Again is in 13, or they could make it the main attraction like on Down and Out with it's really weird angular 5/4 feel
It's almost like David makes a conscious effort to not mention them lol
@@Aquatarkus96
He probably avoids prog artists, because by definition, prog bands like genesis and yes push the boundaries, if i included them every example in every video would be them
@@Aquatarkus96 i think he mentioned turn it on again in one video but it was very briefly… certainly, they deserve a lot more love than he gives them
Just off the top of my head "Room a Thousand Years Wide" by Soundgarden is in unmistakable 6/4. And it's awesome.
An Alice in Chains mention in a David video! We simply love to see it. Great work as always.
Yeah damn that river, rain rain when i die and hollow but im pretty sure there is another
There's actually another 6/4 Song by Foo Fighters that works as a great example: Miss The Misery from their Wasting Light album. The riff and verses are in 6/4, the first 4 beats of the riff form one clear phrase, answered by the last 2 beats. This song also switches to 4/4 for the prechorus and chorus, which adds relief.
I think Making a Fire from their latest album is also 6/4
“All Tore Up” by the Tragically Hip is a good one. Feels like three bars of 2/4 (or maybe even 2/2); kinda different from the examples in the video.
Dave would be a good music teacher
What do you mean, Marah? Dave IS a good music teacher.
@@clifftownsend3027 word
I was hoping Fell on Black Days would get a mention. Soundgarden really had an affinity for unusual time signatures!
Also I am absolutely _squealing_ at the Courtney Barnett mention. She's great!
As soon as I saw the video's title my first thought was "I'll be gutted if 'Fell On Black Days' isn't mentioned". Second song in. Phew!!
6/4 time is beautiful 😺 I owe you
2:02 Half-flat A, impressive attention to details.
This channel expanded my music library
Great!
Thanks for using my cover David! ☺️ love your videos and good to see another Radiohead devotee
I've noticed that 3/4 tends to accent the first and third beats while 6/4 more often than not accents beats 1, 3, and 5. I hear both Electric Feel and your song at the end in 3/4 because of this.
These are all the songs he mentions in this video:
Schism - TOOL
Fell on Black Days - Soundgarden
Full Stop - Radiohead
Pick up Sticks - Dave Brubeck Quartet
Everybody's Jumping - Dave Brubeck Quartet
Galvanize - The Chemical Brothers
Enough Space - Foo Fighters
Dam That River - Alice in Chains
Synchronicity 1 - The Police
Crippling Self Doubt and a General Lack of Confidence - Courtney Barnett
Take Me to Church - Hozier
Electric Feel - MGMT
Nocturne Op. 9, No. 1 - Frédéric Chopin
also, he doesn't mention it by name, but the sheet music shown in 10:40 is for waltz #1 by elliott smith (this one is absolutely 3/4 though)
A David Bennett video that doesn't feature a Beatles song? I never thought I'd live to see the day
The Beatles didn’t write anything in 6/4
I really like how you explain the weird time signatures with examples of actual songs. Makes the theory for it a lot more Intuitive
When I was learning how to play, “ Shine on you Crazy Diamond.” By Pink Floyd. I found out it was in 6/4. My guitar teacher said it was a compound waltz. Makes sense after this video.
why not 6/8? - my brain hurts
@@GaZonk100 No reason. 6/4 and 6/8 are exactly the same thing, simply with different note values. What is notated as quarter notes in 6/4 is notated as 8th notes in 6/8.
I guess people choose 6/4 when the tempo is slow enough, so that you actually feel it in 6, and 6/8 when you feel it more as two beats with 3 subdivisions each. Shine on You Crazy Diamond is so slow that you actually feel it in 6, which is why 6/4 may feel more natural. But something like Hallelujah isn't really felt in 6 - you feel it in 2, and each beat has 3 subdivisions. Nothing would stop you from writing Hallelujah in 6/4, or Shine on You Crazy Diamond in 6/8, though. Note values are relative, not absolute, and the only thing that defines quarter note as a quarter note is its relationship to other note values.
These days, it's common to equate quarter notes with the pulse of the song. But nothing really stops you from choosing half note or 8th note as the pulse. But because people are used to certain note values feeling slower and other note values feeling faster, it might seem weird to use longer note values in a really fast tempo (or shorter note values in a really slow tempo), which is why fast 6/4 or slow 6/8 may be more difficult to read, because the notation looks "slow" when the music is fast or vice versa.
@@MaggaraMarine thank you -- I will digest this fine response over a drink tonight
@@MaggaraMarine I disagree. 3/4 and 6/4 are very close, the difference as shown in the video. 6/8 on the other hand, has a very different feel, with as you say the accent on the 1st and 4th. It's compound time since we have 2 beats, each split into three. 6/4 is simple time. Of course you could rewrite a 6/4 piece in 6/8, but as is said in the video, this would give completely the wrong idea to the performer.
@@iain_nakada Look up pieces that are written in 6/4, and you'll find a lot of them that sound like 6/8 (you just don't know that they are written in 6/4, because the difference between 6/4 and 6/8 really can't be heard in those cases - it's simply about how the pieces were notated, and which note value was chosen as the beat). Liebestraum no.3 would be a good example. Forlane from Bach's 1st Orchestral Suite would be an even better example. If you want a more modern example, I'd Give It All for You from Songs for a New World is written in 6/4 (I know this because I have seen the original sheet music). Definitely has what most people would describe as a 6/8 feel.
BTW, sometimes the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 is also kind of arbitrary. One bar of slow 6/8 may feel like two bars of fast 3/4 (or vice versa). For example the Scherzo from Beethoven's 5th Symphony is written in really fast 3/4, even though to me it has more of a 6/8 feel (I would count it as one two one two, but the way Beethoven wrote it basically makes you feel it as "one, one, one, one", where the beats are notated as dotted half notes, and the quarter notes are super fast).
Traditionally, 6/4 is a compound duple meter. When you combine two 3/4 bars, you get one bar of 6/4. And combining two 3/4 bars gives the music a 3+3 feel. Two beats (1st and 4th beats) in a bar get more emphasis than the others.
Now, you can use 6/4 without a distinct 3+3 feel, but that's not how the time signature has been used historically. If the 6 beats are in groups of 2, 3/2 would often be a more appropriate time signature.
And BTW, I don't 100% agree with the video. The point it made in the end was good, though. As he said, 6/4 may appear to be a rare time signature, because some pieces that feel like 3/4 are notated in 6/4. But also (and the video didn't mention this) because some pieces that feel like 6/8 are notated in 6/4. Basically, it's a time signature that lacks a clear identity, and a lot of 6/4 pieces may be described either as 6/8 or 3/4 (these are the most common ways of notating the two most common feels of 6/4 pieces).
The main point here is, the "bottom number" of a time signature can't be heard. It's simply about which note values you would use to notate the piece. But there's really nothing that makes 6/4 distinct from 6/8 or 6/16. People just tend to default to 6/8, because that's the most common 6/x time signature.
"Fell on Black Days" by Soundgarden is in 6/4. And it was a hit song.
The chorus of Wuthering Heights sounds like it's in 4/4 and then a bar of 2/4, but seeing this video, I never considered it could be in 6/4
Never been so early for a video... Love your content!
Thanks Michael!
Same, feels pretty cool to be so early!
Piledriver Waltz by Alex Turner is a really interesting example because the verses are definitely in 6/4 as they are clearly divided into 3 groups of 2 beats whilst the chorus then switches to a 3/4 waltz feel with 2 groups of 3 beats instead
The repeating bridge in Whip It by Devo is in 6/4
Another excellent example. :-) Definitely one of those "just chop off the end of the phrase for effect" songs, a bit like Joan Jett's "I Love Rock and Roll", or Blondie's "Heart of Glass".
It adds so much swagger to the chorus, it's like you're marching into the chorus
I always told myself that if I ever had a band I would push for sheet music to come with every cd or vynil so people could learn it without having to rely on mostly inaccurate tabs or sheets online
Synchronicity 1 is one of
my favorites
These are great videos of you going through songs with all kinds of different time signatures! Keep it up to go through all of them that’s usually popular if you can and then maybe the more obscure proggy type ones if you don’t mind with composite meters and such.
Danny Elfman was obsessed with using phrases of six during his time in Oingo Boingo, most notably in songs such as "Nasty Habits," "Little Girls," and "Dead Man's Party.
Thank you David, for opening my eyes to 6/4 being like 4/4 +2/4. I used to (wrongly) read it as I would a 6/8
schism isn’t in 6/4, it’s actually mostly in alternating bars of 5/8 and 7/8 however the meter changes constantly
Maybe because 5/8 + 7/8 would make 12/8 and 12 eighth notes could fit in 6 quarter notes idk i'm just a guitar player lol.
@@deathoftheendless001 You could definitely do that, but you could also write 4/4 as 3/4 + 1/4 but that would make no sense. In the same way it makes no sense to view schism in 6/4. Everything points to alternating 5/8 and 7/8.
@@timdedecker7894 yeah I agree on that, for me I hear 5/8 7/8 more than 6/4 everytime I listen to that tune. And I think it would be easy to play if it is to be seen as that instead of 6/4
I wonder how many bands, especially those without formal music education and at the start of their careers, really know what time signature their music is in. The guitar, drums and bass jam together, get a nice groove going, and that's the basis of the song. Months later a producer might tell them it's in 4/4 or 6/4 😁
My thoughts exactly.
Depends. Yeah anyone can play 4/4 (and maybe even 3/4, 6/8, 12/8) spontaneously but I can't imagine very many garage bands just spontaneously starting to jam in 7/8 or 5/4. That's going to be a conscious decision by somebody.
@@wingracer1614 But if you're writing by yourself on a computer it's very easy to go twiddly, twiddly, twiddly and end up with something in 15/16 or what have you, because you can write more by feel and don't have to have someone else follow along. And you still might not know what time signature it is!
Our sheet music for "I want a Hippopotamus for Christmas" is in 6/4 time. This helped me understand it better. Thank you!
I don't know how to read sheet music, but your time signature videos have helped me gain a lot information I didn't have prior to watching them! You've also given me a new writing topic for when my english teacher gives us free write days lol
a david bennett ad before a david bennett video, so surreal.
I think Electric Feel is 6/4 because to me it feels like "one two THREE FOUR one? two?" In other words, 4/4 with accents on the end and a weird, added two beats.
The "Songs that use X/Y time" series is my favourite
Thank you for this video. I have to compose a piece for college and I just realized that 6/4 is what I should use rather than 3/4!
I'm so glad Courtney Barnett is getting more recognition. One of my favorite new artists
That Radiohead bloke is back.
I can't wait till you get to "Songs In 13/82. 😁
Kaz Rodriguez loves 6/4 phrasing. He plays it a lot.
I love the way 6/4 moves against 4/4.
Multiple tracks on the Undertale soundtrack are in 6/4, and they are mainly ones that use the "Ruins" leitmotif. The three I can think of are:
- Ruins
- Spear Of Justice
- NGAHHH!!
The leitmotif is used in other tracks too, but is shifted to 3/4 or even changed to fit a 4/4 rhythm (like in "Battle Against A True Hero")
I like the 4 - 2 count in 6/4. It seams fairly common in rock to add the 2 count.
Pixies love mixing 4/4 and 6/4 in their songs:
- In 'No. 13 Baby' the outro alternates between 4/4 and 6/4.
- They also alternate between 6/4 and 4/4 in the chorus of 'Dig for Fire'.
- The coda in 'Alec Eiffel' has a total of 22 beats grouped together, which I count as 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 6/4.
Also the chorus to "Waves of Mutilation"
the verses in vamos are in 6/4 too, pixies use this time signature all the time. soooo good
Keep it dark is a very interesting Genesis song from the early 80s in many ways. Not only that its written in 6/4 but also with a distinctly syncopated rhythm guitar part.
Also Turn it on again, which alternates between 6/4 and 7/4
In classical notation, 6/4 means that the beats are grouped 3+3 (similar to 6/8). The grouping 2+2+2 would be notated as 3/2 (similar to 3/4).
Starting with one of the songs with the most debated time signatures in recent memory, ballsy move. Personally, when I think of Tool and 6/4, I think of the chorus to Stinkfist.
From 1966, the musically hallucinatory 'B' section from "Cabinessence" by Brian Wilson. Followed by a 'C' section in 6/8 where the bass is overlaid in 6/4.
Rabbit in Your Headlights is a delightful specimen. Most of the song is in 9/8 but the it builds to a crescendo, and breaks into a strong quarter-note-feeling 6.
He talks about music the way literature professors explain the complexity of old books.
David I love your stuff! It was my understanding Schism is in 5/8 + 7/8 While i know it's the same as 6/4 in terms of the cycle length the 2 3 2 2 3 grouping of accents is a big part of that song
It's funny because he said that 6/4 songs are harder to find than 5/4 songs, yet Schism is one of the only 5/4 songs I can think of and then he says it's in 6/4 anyway😂😂
I think 5/8 + 7/8 makes it easy to conceptualise the song when you're performing it. However, if you were reading this song off a page, you'd probably prefer it to be 6/4. There are a lot of examples of songs that could be thought of in this kind of way. For example, you could even say that Clocks by Coldplay is 3/8 + 3/8 + 2/8, and that might make it easier to think about, but it would be weird to not writing the song down in 4/4. 😊
@@DavidBennettPiano Lol for sure, just Sciscm has a really unique rhythmic seperation compared to most other songs.
It is a pain to read things with a lot of time changes, but where is the appropriate time to use them? I'm guessing when it's complex enough that we can't make it easier to read?
Regardless bro, I really do enjoy your videos! Keep up the good work.
@@ChemBoy613 thanks! Personally I really find Schism naturally falls into 6/4 much better than 5/8+7/8. But at the end of the day, it’s two sides of the same coin 😃
That Courtney Barnett example reminds me of "Wave of Mutilation" by the Pixies, except "Wave" is in 4/4 in the verses and 6/4 in the chorus. "Dead" is another good example in 6/4.
Thank you for pointing out Pixies were there almost from the beginning.
pixies has a LOOOOOOOT of songs in 6/4, from surfer rosa to trompe le monde. its crazy
Excellent video. I just had a song that was in both 4/4 and 6/4 and this explained everything I needed to know as a newbie. +1 for Radiohead.
Camille Saint-Saëns' The Swan is in 6/4. The 'cello leads with 6 crotchets that work naturally. The piano accompaniment has two rolling sequences - 4 semiquavers going up-up-down-down underneath 6 quavers going up-up-down-down-up. A great feeling of running water to support the 'cello's swan-like calm movements.
And now for the ultimate challenge: Songs in 9/4 time!
The bridge of Deep Purple's Perfect Strangers
It’s on the list! Thanks for the suggestion of that Deep Purple track, I’ll check it out!
@@DavidBennettPiano Anything! 😉
@@DavidBennettPiano Also Watermelon i Easter Hay - I think...
Thank you! I was hoping you'd do this video soon!
Electric Feel... one of my favorite songs ever ❤ I hear it in 6/4 although before today I never thought about it, just loved it 😊
Schism is a repeating 5/8 + 7/8, because drum and vocals accents on second bar (and first too) is nothing like 6/4. Just try to play it and you'll see that reading and counting in 5/8 + 7/8 is much easier than in 6/4. Also, in chorus it clearly goes to 6/8 + 7/8, prolonging the last note of first bar and playing around with drum patterns. Writing it in 13/8 would be super inconvenient for a performer to read.
But there is actually two times when vocals go in 6/4 (or rather 3/4) while everything else stays in 5/8 + 7/8. One of the times It's on lyrics "i've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing". It's super confusing, and took me I think two years to understand it and kinda feel it, or at least to know what is going on. I still need to concentrate on one of the things and can't hear and feel both at the same time.
Watcher of the Skies by Genesis is a good example of the 4+2 approach to subdivide 6/4
"Although at least a few of you will say that my piece is actually in 3/4." Yep. :-) Definitely "One and and, Two and and", with the accents on the one and four. But each "phrase" feels like a pair, so 6/4 is fine too. :-)
The amount of pain it caused me to see Schism transcribed in 6/4 like that
MGMT electric feel Is definitely in 6/4. It’s the melody in the background. It goes for 6 counts then restarts. Simple.
Thanks for sharing! I would love to see a tutorial that explains how to read sheet music like how to determine the key and so forth...
I like the Tool inclusion. Would love to see more on them because of their weird time signatures.
I saw Dave Grohl in the thumbnail but couldn't think of a Foo Fighters song in 6/4. Enough Space is a great underrated track and I wasn't expecting it!
Edit: The Foos also have a song called Making A Fire, which uses 6/4. I was reminded by the rhythm of Electric Feel in this video
aşk içinde by mor ve ötesi's verse is a really good example of 6/4, I love it
I haven't even watched the video yet but i already know it's gonna be great
Your "Take me to church" example is interesting. When are you "allowed" to divide or double the time signature, while doubling or dividing the tempo? When is a 6/4 at 120bpm the same as a 3/2 (or 6/8) at 60bpm? Are you allowed to change from one to the other any time you want?
You can write it any way you want - you can even write it without a time signature altogether. But a time signature communicates the feel of a piece of sheet music to the performer, and the way they choose to interpret a tune can vary wildly depending on notation like this.
3/2 would be more accurate than 6/4 in this case, since there are still 3 accents per bar. You kind of feel it in groups of 2 (1-2 2-2 3-2), even if you feel it in 6.
The difference between 3/2 and 3/4 is a lot more subtle, and sometimes there's no difference. These days, I would use 3/2 for songs that are felt in 6, but use groups of 2 beats, and 3/4 for songs that are felt in 3. But in older pieces, 3/2 and 3/4 are many times used interchangeably. It's the same thing with different note values.
Note values are relative, not absolute. Anything that's in 3/4 could technically also be notated in 3/8 or 3/2. But especially these days when people see longer note values, they think "slow", and when they see shorter note values, they think "fast", which is why notating something fast in 3/2, or something slow in 3/8 may feel confusing to the reader (this hasn't always been the case - just look at some slow Bach pieces, and you'll see a lot of really fast note values like 32nd and even 64th notes).
But really, you can't hear a clear difference between 3/2, 3/4 and 3/8. Well, sometimes you can. But a lot of the time, there isn't any difference (which is why people usually default to 3/4 - that's the most familiar time signature to most people).
Suburban War by Arcade Fire is in 6/4, you can feel it by listening the guitar riff. It then speeds up and switches to 4/4 in the outro
I don't see this in the comments, but apologies if I'm being redundant.
Rush - Freewill. The verse alternates between 6/4 and 7/4, with both being emphasized, where it feels like 4/4 + 2/4, then 4/4 + 3/4. Pre-chorus goes to 4/4. Then I think the chorus is 8/4 alternating with 7/4. It's a really interesting song structure that still became one of their "hits".
Watcher Of The Skies by Genesis is the example I always use . That or several Gentle Giant songs.
I also think "to the end" by blur is 6/4, or at least an unusual time signature
"To The End" is a great song! It alternates between 6/4 and 4/4 but I didn't think it was a pure enough example for this video. I may feature it in another upcoming video though!
The song march of the s.o.d by the metal band s.o.d is great example of 6/4, 5/4 ,7/4 and even 8/4
As it uses all these time signatures and 4/4 alternating between different sections.
The first/main riff is in 6/4, the second is in 7/4, the third is in 8/4 and other riffs are either in 4/4 or 5/4
The rhythm and sound of the piece in the end has a very Black South African Gospel feeling to it. I couldn't help but groove to it❤🇿🇦
“Bad Idea” from the musical Waitress is also in 6/4!
Hell yeah more odd time signatures
@@tudor__ One day, you won't be alive
one band that kickstarted my obsession with nonstandard time signatures a few years ago is biffy clyro, and their newest album uses 6/4 (and 7/4) a LOT. my favourite of those songs is probably the pink limit, which plays around with the accents in the verse, so it sometimes becomes ambiguous if the part is subdivided in groups of 2 bars of 6/4 or 3 bars of 4/4
I haven't played Most Wanted (2012) for over 6 years so hearing Galvanize slapped me with the most nostalgia Ive ever felt in my 16 years of being alive
ˊ6/4 is actually a compound time signature, similar to 6/8. In fact it works in the same way (just rescale the note lengths so that the 8th notes become quarters and so on)
Most of the examples in this video is in 4/4+2/4, not 6/4. They're different.
6:43 "Although we can technically write down the song in 3/4, we wouldn't be doing the performer any favor if we did so." I don't think we would be doing the performer any favor by writing it down in 6/4 either, when the song's in 4/4+2/4. By the same reason, Electric Feel is in 4/4+2/4.
Even though 6/4 is traditionally a compound meter, when people think of 6/4 nowdays most people probably think of 4/4 with 2 extra beats, wich also adds up to 6 beats in total, so why can't it mean both things? It can also avoid unecessary alternating time signatures every bar, so i'd say you *would* be doing the performer some favor by writing that in 6/4, but even if you stick to thinking "6/4 can ONLY be used as a compound duple meter and a compound duple meter ONLY, any other way to use it is objectively incorrect" you can still use 3/2 wich would also avoid constantly alternating time signatures, but i think the most helpful option would be to just use 6/4 but include "felt in 2" as an instruction to clarify to the people who still think of 6/4 as a compound duple meter (wich at this point i'm assuming even most of them would know that's not always how it's used)
@@Wind-nj5xz But for instance, in 4/4+2/4, the second quarter note is on a beat (albeit a weak beat), while in 3/2, it's on the offbeat. So they're still not the same. Also, writing 4/4+2/4 doesn't require alternating time signatures every bar. You just write two time signatures in the usual way and put a + in the middle, and you place it like normal time signatures. Then each bar will be as long as 6 quarter notes, but the stress pattern would be the same as alternating 4/4 and 2/4.
"when people think of 6/4 nowdays most people probably think of 4/4 with 2 extra beats"
Most people don't even read the official sheet music along when listening to a pop or rock song, whether it's because the original artists didn't write one in the first place, or they can't read sheet music, or they're unable to purchase the sheet music for whatever reason... Most of the time people hearing a song won't have any idea if in the producer's software they used alternating 4/4 and 2/4, or 6/4. Technically speaking there's even the possibility of them setting the time signature to 12/8 while tweaking the nuances of each track (even though the song might not be meant to be felt as in 12/8)
Btw, the notation 4/4+2/4 was used by Bartok and many other classical composers (who actually dictated the time signature in their scores). So it's actually been around for a while.
@@19divide53 Yes, most people won't read the sheet music when listening to a pop or rock song, what i mean is when people hear about a song in a 6/4 time signature, they're probably expecting a 4+2 feel, people who can recognize the time signature just from listening will probably call it 6/4, and most people who can ready sheet music are probably at least aware that some people use 6/4 for both things even if they still think of the second option as "incorrect"
@@Wind-nj5xz "most people who can ready sheet music are probably at least aware that some people use 6/4 for both things even if they still think of the second option as "incorrect""
just like how most people who knows their elementary science are probably aware of the fact that there are people who actually believe the Earth is flat?
@@19divide53 I mean, at least a musician reading a 4+2 piece written in 6/4 would probably think "Oh, that same mistake of writing in 6/4 when they mean 4+2/4, whatever i can still read this" i can see where you're coming from when you say it's incorrect but "not doing the performer any favor" made me think it would be confusing to read in the same way a 6/4 song written in 3/4 would.
Ultimately though i think it's kinda stupid that only songs who use it as a compound meter can be called 6/4, it's like the thing about 9/8 where it's traditionally a compound triple meter but no one cares if you use it as odd groupings of 2, 3 or 4 (like 4+5 for example) as long as you adjust the beaming to reflect that, you might argue the thing about 6/4 vs 4+2/4 is more similar to 6/8 vs 3/4 and to an extent i agree, but i'd say it's also to an extent different.
For example, writing a song in 6/8 as 3/4 wouldn't be doing the performer any favor because it implies 3 evenly spaced quarter notes per bar, wich won't be the rythm that is accented in the song, the other way around though (writing a 3/4 song in 6/8) can technically be done without implying another rythm that won't be accented during the song if you adjust the beaming to indicate a 2+2+2 rythm, but there's no need for doing so when 3/4 is literally made for that and most people also associate 6/8 with a dotted quarter note accent, so it would be weird to use it for something other than that, and i'm not even sure if it's possible to have a rythm that can fit into 6/8 but doesn't feel like either 3 quarter notes or 2 dotted quarters, but if i'm wrong and you know a song that has something like that please let me know.
For 6/4 on the other hand it's a bit different, most people either associate it with a 4+2 feel or know it can be both 4+2 or 3+3 (just like 6/8 i'm not even sure you can make it feel like anything else unless you start messing with eighth or sixteenth notes but then another time signature would probably be better in that case) and not only that, but if you think about 6/4 as like a slow 6/8, it can actually become sort of subjective when to use 6/4 vs 6/8.
You might still be thinking "But 6/8 exists because people felt like the difference between 3+3 and 2+2+2 was different enough they needed different time signatures to describe it" and while i can see where you're coming from, i kinda disagree that 4+2/4 is even a time signature really, it's literally just alternating time signatures written in a way that says "Hey, please count these in your head as alternating time signatures but we haven't notated them as such because we don't want the page to look messy" while it does the job of correctly indicating the rythmic accents of the song, it implies that there is no time signature that does that aside from a combination of time signatures.
Schism by Tool is another case that comes to mind about this, the verses alternate between 5/8 and 7/8, could you use 5+7/8? Absolutely, but you can also use 12/8 but adjust the beaming to indicate 3+2+3+2, though i think 5+7/8 would be better in that case because even with the beaming adjusted, it could confuse some people into thinking it's in a compound feel because most people associate 12/8 with that, but even then, i would certainly not call that an incorrect way of notating it.
Thank you once more for an enjoyable and educating video!
Pineapple Head by Crowded House is in 6/8, that's the nearest I could get from the sheet music I have. Would be good to see them feature in a future video.
How about a video on songs in 12/8? I know a couple of those.
I jammed out a riff that happened to be in 6/4 and have next to no theory knowledge, so this is actually really helpful for acclimatizing myself to the time signature
6/4 is a compound meter with 2 beats that are each 3/4 long. These are examples of 3/2 time.