Why Apologetics Is Different Now
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- This talk argues that the doctrine of God is the answer to modern despair, drawing implications for the church's work of evangelical and apologetics. It originally was delivered on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at the Evangelical Free Church in America Theology Conference.
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Truth Unites exists to promote gospel assurance through theological depth.
Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) serves as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Ojai.
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00:00 - Coming Up
00:28 - Book Recommendation
02:21 - Introduction
10:34 - God's Perfection
20:34 - Modern Despair
33:36 - Implications for the Church
52:32 - Carl Sagan's Contact - Zábava
I used to think apologetics was just throwing arguments at people’s faces until something stuck. I’ve come to realize that true apologetics comes from the heart of God’s character: love. In a world of hurt and despair, a caring hand and a listening ear could have more impact than any display of propositional logic. Of course, it depends on the person, but Jesus did say that we will be known by our love (John 13:35).
I have objection to this
I agree, on a personal level. On a societal level, we need to get on the offense and show the world that atheism is objectively bad for human flourishing and well-being. And that other belief systems like Islam are critically flawed.
Amen.
CS Lewis would have been proud of your speech, Gavin.
Great talk! Thank you so much!
This has been very much on my heart as I’ve struggled sharing the gospel here in France, as it’s very secular. There’s no way to share it without going back to God and Creation. I find it intimidating as it requires lots of different skills: like you said, asking questions and getting to know the person, knowing how to respond to unexpected reactions… I’m definitely going to work towards building up those skills.
May the Lord help us to be prepared to give a defence for our faith lovingly, for His glory 🙏
I watched this right before reading a chapter from Herman Bavinck’s “The Wonderful Works of God” titled “The Being of God.” The bottom of page 113 is absolutely beautiful and inspiring. I wish everyone could experience this head and heart knowledge of God and how wonderful he is. Here’s a quote from the page: “Once we have received the principal of eternal life in our hearts, we cannot but long always to know more of Him who granted us that life.” LORD let us know you in this way. Give us courage to show who we have to the lost.
Despair. There is a way out. And it is infinitely beautiful...
Looking forward to watching this in full later. God bless.
the baptism in the Holy Spirit , indwelling of, has helped me with overcoming the flatness and despair
1:26 I’m reading Barrett book right now, and my friends are tired of me talking about it, haha. It is incredible how much he is covering and communicating in this book. I am learning, expanding my mind, connecting ideas, filling in blanks, and grounding my faith in the tradition. Honestly, I can’t remember the last time I’ve been this confident in my faith in God, and a large part of that is through what God is doing in Barrett’s book and this CZcams channel. God is good.
Please upload more of your live sermons Gavin :)
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TS Eliot I think describes it well,
"Damp, jaggèd, like an old man's mouth drivelling, beyond
repair,
Or the toothed gullet of an agèd shark." (Ash Wednesday)
Which is I think a reference to Psalm 5 "their throat is like an open grave"
And
"Plotting of happiness and flinging empty bottles,
Turning from your vacancy to fevered enthusiasm
For nation or race or what you call humanity;" (Choruses from the Rock)
These lines are extremely reminiscent of the line Dr. Ortlund quoted from That Hideous Strength
The entirety of Eliot's Choruses from the Rock deals with the subject phenomenally.
I love the That Hideous Strength referencing! Wonderful book!
This needs more views
We were created to worship Yehovah. What a wonderful purpose we have been given through the Messiah. I can't do life without Him.
Ennui. But despair is great, imo. The gospel of goodness - fried eggs, a loved one, soap, sunlight. That's what we need to share. Beautiful. ❤
TL:DW We're dealing with an acts17 pagan/gentile society that lacks the foundations of the bible. You need to meet people where they are and with what they understand. Most don't even know what "sin" is or why it's bad. I highly recommend Living Waters who has many videos demonstrating how he evangelizes through the Socratic method; Ask questions and reason with them. Don't just throw scripture at them, they won't understand.
Alternative to despair; Demoralization. People live in an abusive relationship that seduces then abuses them but they can't imagine leaving it and fighting back never enters their minds. They'll fight to defend their abuser claiming it can be redeemed, or truly cares about them but has a hard time showing it. Largely though their clinging to the abuser comes from a fear of losing what they have.
Excellent points on the distraction. I know I was living in it before finding God. I think the highlight is your pointing out we need to introduce people to their eternal purpouse and fellowship that they are missing.
Thoroughly enjoyed this discussion.
Will definitely be returning to this talk again in the future.
Gavin,
Amen Jesus is the answer to despair.
That large book looks challenging but I will order it.
Such theologically & mentally stimulating teaching!!
Thank you!
"I would think that most educated Atheists are much more likely to be suddenly ambushed in the heart by poetry than they are very likely to be converted by reasoned argument. A lot of what is conveyed by Christianity has to be conveyed in this form because words, even the most beautiful words, cannot convey it. These things are immensely potent and if people are exposed to them I think they may find that the still small voice is audible." -Journalist and Author Peter Hitchens
Penetrating and brilliant. Many thanks.
Demoralization - is the term I've heard used by modern psychologists and philosophers for what you are describing. It's something that goes beyond mere depression and entails the hopelessness of any joy to be found in a world that's in a constant slide to utter decay.
Only question that pops into my head; is has it actually been this way since the fall?
It encourages me greatly that you are recognizing and trying to oppose the hopeless and emptiness of the modern world. As a young adult I can absolutely agree that there is an immense and overpowering hopelessness in society right now, and particular amidst the young people. Economic experts predict an imminent crash that could wipe out our prospects of finishing school or getting jobs once we do, environmental commentators predict irreversible damage to the planet in the next few decades, political commentators on every side predict societal collapse in the near future, and health experts in every field observe that mentally, physically, and spiritually, people are in decline.
My generation - those who are just passing through college and into adulthood - know full well that the consequence of all this will be theirs to bear, and we are told on every side that it is our problem to deal with. Many even try to say that it is our fault that this has happened. All of this adds up to an amount of pressure, weight and despair that leads most people to cover their ears whenever possible, distance and disassociate themselves from much of their own lives, and set up a protective barrier of sardonic, mocking irony with which to keep the horror of the world at bay. This is why dark humor, memes, and mockery are so popular. It allows people facing everything from a powerless awareness of every kind of evil perpetrated by the men and governments of the world, to the relentless reminder of their own worthlessness that social media provides, a way to laugh at it all. Though that laughter may be loud and long, it hides bitterness, emptiness and ultimately hopelessness.
I think that lack of hope reflects itself well in the loneliness in the world and the rapid death of every kind of relationship. All that I've seen and heard of statistics and personal experience, testifies that deep and meaningful friendships are dying, as people today often have, not merely few, but no close friends whom they confide in and relate to in a deep and profound way. Romance is dying too as few young people are married, and of those I know, many don't even seem to want to be, or to think it's possible. All that remains is sex, and even this is in decline - not as an idol, but as a part of a relationship of any kind at all. In ever increasing numbers people aren't even trying to hook up anymore but simply shut themselves off with porn, having given up any hope of having a real relationship with anyone, though few would admit as much openly.
All of this is why distractions of every kind are everywhere, drugs are so popular, and suicide rates only seem to climb ever higher.
Agains this only a radical, all-consuming, life-changing hope can make any difference.
I agree, finding true faith in Christ did transform me in ways I didn't imagine. ONe was loneliness, I would long for deeper friendships and would engage a lot with casual friends in hopes of eventually developing that. I would feel very lonely at times, like my heart was being ripped out from loneliness, and try and reach out to someone, anyone to dispell this. Thankfully Christ helped me with this and my loneliness has severely decreased, I still feel it occassionally, sometimes even intenesely, but not to the same level as before. Only really when I'm seeing groups of people interacting in a jovial setting and I am unable to make it into the fold. Anyways, I think it's neccessary for the loneliness for people to know Christ in this society, but I sometimes long for the church of Acts which seemed to have everyone so close to one another.
@@MatthewMurraycogswoth amen to that - I long for that closeness others seem to have but Christ's closeness is perhaps better felt by the lonely and despairing who turn to him for their consolation.
Gavin this is absolutely amazing. Thanks so much for putting your effort toward this task and for leveraging the Christian tradition in such a robust way. I am so excited about this - seriously - keep up the good work!
Excellent talk, so very helpful. Thank you.
Your description of despair puts me in mind of a movie: The Unbearable Lightness of Being. Its theme being that life is full of tragedy, yet devoid of any meaning, and any meaning we try to put into it inevitably misses the mark and comes to ruin. We and all our strivings are pointless and soon to be forgotten. That is despair. Hopeless.
Our cellphones are dark magic, as are most all of the electronic "aids" we use in modern life. Edison was an evil genius, who let the genie out of his bottle.
Why does Gavins voice sounds really deep in the intro 😂
I’m new to your channel. Thank you for your dedication to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
I've heard that "sense of flatness" called Anhedonia. David Foster Wallace phrased it in Infinite Jest like this:
"Kate Gompert’s always thought of this anhedonic state as a kind of radical abstracting of everything, a hollowing out of stuff that used to have affective content. Terms the undepressed toss around and take for granted as full and fleshy-happiness, joie de vivre, preference, love-are stripped to their skeletons and reduced to abstract ideas. They have, as it were, denotation but not connotation. The anhedonic can still speak about happiness and meaning et al., but she has become incapable of feeling anything in them, of understanding anything about them, of hoping anything about them, or of believing them to exist as anything more than concepts. Everything becomes an outline of the thing. Objects become schemata. The world becomes a map of the world. An anhedonic can navigate, but has no location."
Infinite Jest deals with this feeling in real depth. It's a big book, but might be worth reading to someone who wants to see a profound exploration of the idea. It makes me desperately wish DFW had known Jesus before he died.
This sermon rocks, heard it on another channel before this one
This was really helpful. Thanks Gavin.
Scepticism, despair, and cynicism all seem fitting. Despair seems quite linked to lack of hope, lack of faith, and increasing aloneness and alienation. It's in some sense part of the picture Nietzsche gives us that humans are falling and falling, and there is no up, down, left, or right. The loss of the sacred, Logos, Telos, hope, and ultimately rootedness. I like the enchantment versus disenchantment contrast as well.
The second I saw this video I knew what it was about. Pastor Gavin what you are expressing is the whole basis for our new church plant.
Spot on. I haven't listened to all of it yet. The challenge is, is that modern man (and before but perhaps less so) sees God as a "kill joy", i.e. calling for the mortifying of the flesh. There is that aspect to it of course on this side of the grave, not so on the other side. That is why it's so important to point people to the goodness of God. His goodness, His love and His grace, that enables us to overcome on this side of the grave. Great message Pastor. Thank you.
Modern secularists where I live do not appear to exhibit despair. They appear to live lives without any need of God. Consequently, they see no point in going to church. Rather than despair there is a bleak worldview. Thank you so much for this superb sermon. Blessings from uk.
Can you do a video on sharing the gospel with atheists?
Thank you so much for this great talk! I hope there will be dutch subtitles in the future in your video's, so I only have to watch them once😅
Despondency...
Jesus Jesus Jesus
Another term: ennui
On the topic of apologetics and Evangelism, I would like to hear your take on the Lutheran distinction between Law and Gospel. Do you think it is a useful framework, or that it is necessary, as the Lutheran theologians teach, for the proper interpretation of the scriptures?
As a Lutheran, I think you can make an interesting case that classical apologetics climaxes at the Moral Argument, leading into Law. This cuts us to the heart (Acts 2), which then lets the Gospel be that sweet relief. I’d also like to hear Gavin on Law and Gospel.
Numinous means something that arouses spiritual or religious emotion, is mysterious or awe-inspiring, or is supernatural. It can also mean something that appeals to the aesthetic sensibility.
The term was introduced in the early 20th century by the German theologian and philosopher Rudolf Otto in his 1917 book The Idea of the Holy. The term appears in literary contexts as early as the 17th century.
Numinous can also mean:
• Filled with a sense of the presence of divinity
• Appealing to the higher emotions or to the aesthetic sense
• Denoting, being, or relating to a numen
• Surpassing comprehension or understanding
You don't have to be in a strictly religious environment to experience something numinous. For example, you might see the beauty of a painting or the melody of a song as numinous if they communicate a spiritual vibe.
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The attributes of God. The attributes of His Essence. God IS Omnipotent (All Powerful), Omniscient (All knowing), Omnipresent (None of His attributes is affected by location),Sovereign( Having all authority) Love (Without Malice) Light (shows every aspect of everything for what it is), Life (giving animation and breath to all creatures) Eternal (None of his attributes is affected by time) Immutable (Cannot change none of His attributes is affected by anything created) Righteousness Always right Justice cannot pronounce a verdict that is wrong ) Veracity (Always keeps His word the true Promise keeper). If God has all Authority over everything does He delegate any of it to some of His creatures to use as they themselves see fit? Also does God delegate any of His authority to the laws of the Creation which men discover such as gravity Satan tempts Jesus to jump off a high tower so angels would suspend the laws of gravity? Or chemistry mix two chemicals together and get whatever. Or physics or nuclear physics like the H Bomb or the weather or weather modification? Or perhaps the everlasting essences of mankind such as the human soul or human spirit as well as the body which is the human soul's & human spirit's interface with the material order? If then God delegates some of His authority to angels to use as they see fit or to mankind then exactly what do men angels and creation have delegated to them that God will for the greater part not touch? What then will God refuse to touch. If I take my hands of the steering wheel driving and there is no AI for example? What then about AI too? If mankind sets something loose in the cyber world that threatens to turn the whole universe to paper clips will God intervene?
Most of the time, apologetics is not relevant to the true heart reasons for a person's disbelief. Discernment or word of knowledge is far more powerful in getting to the root of the issue. Apologetics often introduces hearers to false doctrine they would never have heard otherwise. Far better is for us to teach believers sound doctrine so they have knowledge of the truth first and foremost. Lack of sound teaching plus introductions to false teachings via apologetics platforms adds confusion to the church.
You're dressed like you're on Star Trek. Just sayin'.
How is calvinism not despair for the whole world for eternity?
How, exactly, *is* it such?
Because when you evangelize, you can just worry about being faithful to the gospel message and God will take care of the rest.
@@zacdredge3859 MOST of the people God created are going to hell for eternity, because God wants them too, and they can't do anything about it. Nice story, but different Gospel.
@avaun459 does Calvinism say that most of the people that God created are going to hell or rather that God has preordained who will and will not be among his elect. As far as I know, nothing in Calvinism precludes that society might eventually reach a point that the majority of people throughout time are saved. Really, all Calvinism changes, at least to my mind (and me saying this not as a Calvinist), is that it is a change in the perspective of God's sovereignty rather than about how many become saved or not. Do you believe in universal salvation? If not, I tend to view the theological differences between Calvinism and other orthodox Christian positions is the highly specific understanding of how we get saved and what that says about God and humanity, not as a difference in the amount of who gets saved. Both Calvinists and Arminians (and Molinists and anyone else, inbetween these) acknowledge that not everyone is saved.
@@avaun459Also I get that you also mentioned that Calvinism says that this is because God wants them to go to hell but I do not think that God's motivation in any of this is ever mentioned in Calvinist doctrine, just the reality of the situation. But emphasizing the word "most" as you did is where I take issue with your characterization of Calvinism. Grace and peace!