Animal Treatment in Video Games: Problematic or Harmless?
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- In this video we'll be deep diving into the topic of animals in video games: how they're treated, how they're portrayed, and how they're used in game mechanics. We discuss Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom, Animal Crossing New Horizons, Stardew Valley and Palworld.
Content disclaimer: I do not own the rights to some of the footage shown in this video. All footage has on-screen credit to its original owner. My use of this content in this video falls under fair use.
Intro 00:00
My background with video games 01:28
Consumable food items 02:42
Food in Breath of the Wild 03:06
Food in Stardew Valley 03:47
Food in Animal Crossing 04:03
Characters in Animal Crossing 04:24
Characters in Breath of the Wild 04:52
Rito Village 05:04
Enemies in BOTW 07:17
Enemies in Palworld 08:18
Animals in game mechanics 09:08
Wild animals in BOTW 09:20
Horseback riding in video games 10:26
Animal farming in Stardew Valley 11:16
Animal death in Stardew Valley 12:26
Fishing in video games 14:11
Real world implications 16:58
CZcams comments about Palworld 17:59
Can you enjoy games as a vegan? 21:05
Dead Cells vegetarian menu 22:14
Future of vegan games 22:45
Final thoughts 23:22
Outro 23:53 - Zábava
I feel like some of you are going to be mad I didn’t include Red Dead Redemption 2 🙈…the truth is I haven’t played it since it’s admittedly not my style of game. I’d love to hear your thoughts on it though and any other games that stand out!
it's literally a horse game
Can I recommend an exploration game that does not involve hunting/gathering? If you've ever heard of outer wilds it's an amazing space exploration game that is set in a pocket solar system, the dangers itself are the planets, but you never exploit anything more than trying to survive from certain challenges while trying to solve the mysteries of an ancient civilization.
Pls go in as blind as possible though!! It's a part of the experience! Much love! The video is great!
Okay i overall like the thought excercise this video provokes, but i just have to laugh at your alarm when the rito wants poultry. Birds are a class. Just like mammals. Being alarmed at a bird eating another bird is as ridiculous as being alarmed at a wolf eating an elk.
And its definitely not uncommon for birds to eat other birds. Peregrine falcons specialize in killing other birds, and almost all birds of prey eat other birds regularly. Even non-raptors commonly attack and eat other birds, including crows, herons, magpies, and storks.
That _is_ a perfect response to a troll! I am not a gamer, but I appreciate your examination of this topic in such detail. To me, all of these games want to ground their fantasy in something familiar, and the use of animals or seeing them as adversaries, is as human as anything else. These games are reinforcing human--or human-like creature--use of animals because that's so normal in the non-gaming world that no one questions it. Except vegans, or some people hypothesizing about Palworld's possible hidden meaning. Thanks for posting 🙂
I think this is a spot-on interpretation, Tamara! To me there's a dissonance that occurs when these realistic animal encounters coexist with otherwise fantastical, magical elements. It's like I feel like I'm "somewhere else" and then the game is asking me to kill a pig and I'm slammed right back to unpleasant reality. I'm glad you enjoyed this video even as a non-gamer! 🤗
Wow, what a thorough analyses of the topic!
🙌🏻
I've been an avid gamer since the early 90's when at 6 years old I first played a pixelated plant based Mario on a NES hand me down.🍄 Great video an topic lass fair play to you. Apart from mostly reaffirming already long standing real world cultural animal use/abuse I don't see any harmful actions of these games that would worsen things for animals in real life, although of course being a Vegan 7+ years I cringe at any an all promotion of cultural animal abuse or ethically incoherent mistreatment of animals by say a supposedly just benevolent protagonist etc can sometime really hinder the narrative. Also some of the most popular videogame characters of all time are based on animals an often the simple formula has them saving their vulnerable furry friends from say a selfish apathetic power hungry human like Sonic/Crash vs Robotnik/Cortex etc. I will also say that I have noticed a fair bit of improvements gaming wise, like you correctly pointed out early in the video some games particularly "beat em ups" traditionally use cooked Chicken corpses as a large health restore item an a fruit for a lesser heal. Like the footage shown in Streets of Rage 2 I played Streets of Rage 4 on PS4 last year and was happy to see a feature that allowed you to pick what your large an small food/health items would be, so lots of animal friendly options in the mix. A small win perhaps but hopefully steps in a better pixelated direction.🌱🎮🤞🍀
Well said, Patrick 💯👏🙏💚 I'll definitely have to give me two cents on this video but I will say that her pointing out that Dead Cells has a vegetarian mode came as a surprise to me because I've owned the game for a couple years now, along with the Castlevania DLC and never even knew there was an option hahaha Not that vegetarianism is something I'm a fan of but, still.
@@ethicallybasedexomnivore Thanks buddy you know me I'm always happy hearing Vegan or Gaming opinions an when they mix it's extra intriguing. Look forward to your perspectives.🌱🌠🎮🍀
It's so great hearing your insights as a long-time gamer! You make many excellent points, especially about the overarching "animal protection quests" in some games. In that way, the industry is a bit all over the place in their portrayal of animals. Are they there for us to protect, or to exploit and make ourselves stronger?! Appreciate your comment! 🙏🏻
I brought this up before, but I tried playing a vegan/pacifist druid in World of Warcraft. It wasn't easy because she didn't wear leather armor. And not even most cloth since they were mostly wool, silk, or unknown materials. She struggled to fight a (mechanical) enemy the same level as her, and had to heal before the next one. Normally you are able to fight multiple enemies at once. Maybe I'll try a gnome warrior who can wear metal armor and can ride a mechanical vehicle. (There are motorcycles in the game that any race can use, but you need fur to make them. 🤢)
That sounds like a really fun experiment, and adds an extra layer of challenge as well! And fur to make motorcycles?! Some of the crafting requirements are so random(and needlessly cruel) in games 🤦🏻♀️
Oooh, as an avid gamer this will be an interesting video
I hope you enjoy, and let me know your thoughts!
@@TotallyForkable I will say there are sooo many video games and I have definitely played many that don't have exploitation/commodification of animals.
That said it is a fairly common theme and many times is just more subtly implemented. I really liked what you said about 'humane washing' in that regard for often times described 'cutesy wholesome' games such as Animal crossing, Stardew Valley. Also, your response at 20:12 made me more reflective on the topic whether or not experiencing violence in fiction (particularly towards defenseless beings) is a big deal. I do believe how we interact and experience fictional media can affect the way we view the real world to an extent, however it is quite a nuanced topic and possible grey areas to analyze. All in all I think you tackled this topic superbly with the somewhat limited gaming experience you have, it also helps that the examples you gave are some of the most popular games on the market right now. I shall share this video around, keep it up.
Just to add, video games don’t usually feature killing kids or rape, regardless of whether such content has real world consequences. Games don’t want to cater to that kind of escapism, likely in part because of our distaste for even wishing to do such things.
Good point; I guess the reality is everyone's threshold for distaste and escapism is going to be slightly different!
Your videos are always so well done 😊
Thank you so much!! 🤗
I don't find it shocking for the Rito to crave poultry. After all, lots of human eat other mammals, and some birds of prey eat other birds.
I'd go so far as to say that the vast majority of birds of prey eat other birds, and a lot of other birds that aren't considered birds of prey do as well
@@FinneasJedidiahcorvids especially prey on eggs and young. Cuckoos eject eggs from the nests of other birds. And to go back to birds of prey, the sparrowhawk got its name for a reason. The idea that birds eating other birds is weird is, well, for the birds. But hey, it’s not as if any of this video is actually rational or serious
Maybe someone should make a game where you're an alien species and you have to hunt, farm, and consume humans.
Why? Will that prove some form of point? Video games are made for people to do video game things. All sorts of things that would be considered atrocities in the real world are done infinitely in games - for fun - cuz, you know, they're games and not real life and people like doing irreverent things.
But, if you want examples of 'human farming' games for funzies may I suggest you check out :
1) Human Farm: You play as a humanoid pig that harvest human meat for food
2) Starmancer: You play an ai running a space vessel that ends up harvesting human limbs and organs to help the vessel continue and improve.
There's many, many games where you play as alien species where you're specifically killing humans>
3) Carrion: Play as a creature that stalks and consumes humans in a facility
4) Maneater: Play as a shark who's goal is to hunt down casual humans and target humans
5)Destroy All Humans: Play as an alien and obliterate humans in numerous ways
6)Deer Avenger: Play as a deer. Grab your weapon of choice an go hunt humans in the wilderness.
There's a manga/anime like that if you've ever heard of the promised Neverland?
From the replies, it sounds like similar games exist!
awesome vid! i think its good to think about these things
Thank you, and I do too!
Really well done video! I looked up if anyone did a video on this topic and this was even better then i expected!
You definitely earned my subscription! Looking forward to more of your content! :)))
I'll chime in as someone who isn't a gamer per se, but has been playing various Sims games since they first came out. I've never used the fishing feature on the sims at all, nor will I ever use it. Also, I naturally can't bring myself to make my characters prepare and eat non-vegan meals - although there aren't many overtly vegan meals, I can easily imagine that the cheese used in recipes is vegan and so I don't mind them cooking grilled cheese or spaghetti.
The Sims 3 is easily the most vegan-friendly version of the game, with a vegetarian trait that can be added to any character, as well as _every_ meat-based meal having a "tofu" or vegetarian counterpart. Now that seems to be on the silly side as the appearance of the tofu meals make them seem like mere white tofu in the shape of hot dogs or turkey for example (yes, they have tofurky), but that goes along with the originality and quirkiness that sims games expressed until the wretched sims 4. In any case, all characters can eat vegan meals without having the vegetarian trait and their favourite meals can also be the vegan ones if the player so chooses. In the Pets expansion pack, they added horses for the first time to the franchise as well as some birds that could be "kept as pets" but have few interactions in reality. All of these, including cats and dogs, can run away if they are neglected and the birds can also be set free by the sims themselves. The horses are as well-made as the cats and dogs, which means they _are indeed_ represented as sentient beings who form relationships and can reproduce naturally - however they can also be ridden and used in jumping and vaulting competitions. I of course will never do any of those interactions, but I've seen playthroughs were someone did do the horse competition and it's _very nteresting_ to note that the horses get moodlets that tell the player that he/she is fed up with the human on their back and needs a break, even from the saddle alone. If they don't get breaks, I believe they might even throw the sims off and they could certainly run away. All of these mechanics come from a game made in 2009 mind, though the Pets expansion came out a few years later.
Lastly, The Sims Medieval and its Pirates and Nobles expansion are also games I've played as entirely vegan characters. This spin-off is based on The Sims 3 so it's easy to see why it's also so vegan-friendly. Even in quests where the characters may have to kill non-human animals, there is always a choice to simply relocate them elsewhere or do something else that wouldn't harm them. One quest even has a bit of in-game activism where it seems many characters are firmly against hunters, which are there to kill chinchillas. Most of the meals here have body parts of wild animals, but it's extremely easy to simply buy produce and flours and make the vegan versions instead. Some parts of quests may require the player to give someone else meat, and in those cases only, I simply buy it from the market and that's that. Overall, I find it extremely easy to play sims games with vegan characters and I wish other games had such options as well, but since most seem to be overtly violent I highly doubt that will happen any time soon.
Great comment I've so many fond memories of the Sims over the years, if I ever play again I'll 100% be playing as a Vegan Sim/Family.🌱🌠🍀
Thanks for sharing and it's good to know there are games that have made massive improvements in that department!
When I was a pretty new vegan I tried playing Horizon Zero Dawn that involves killing and gutting animals for upgrades. It bummed me out and I uninstalled.
Now I play a lot of survival games that involve killing animals, but I also play a lot of shooters that involve killing humans. In the end it's all abstractions to reach a goal or make numbers go up. I think we have enough research to say we're past the idea of video games making people more violent. Same with violent movies. It's just harmless fun as long as you're a healthy well adjusted person able to separate fiction from real life.
I still avoid videogames where harm to or exploitation of animals is the central theme of the game though. Games like Dave the diver, fishing games, hunting games etc. I feel like that crosses a line.
Thanks for sharing your balanced insights; you make some great points!
While I agree the mechanics of these games make statements about how one ought to engage with animals, I have faith that the majority of gamers can differentiate between games and real life and can enjoy the fantasy of unsavory behaviors without it informing their real life behavior. Though it is interesting how different games elicit different interactions with animals to the point where I've cried from losing simulated pets but also apathetically grinded for animal "resources" in other games.
I wonder instead if games could serve as a safe alternative, in a similar manner to simulated meat products, satiating part of ones desire or curiosity without the repercussions of the real thing. I think there is clearly a subsection of people that this serves no function for as they dont have that desire, but as someone who has been vegan and craved meat and cheese, I think simulated alternatives served a great purpose
Nice vid!
I have thought about this topic a number of times, so I'm happy to see it discussed as thoroughly and thoughtfully as you've done here.
I hesitated to play Animal Crossing, assuming anything about animals would probably include exploiting/murdering them. I searched the topic and found conflicting answers, like there is a vegan option to play the game, but still it would annoy me to have the exploit/murder moments come up in the game, so I decided to skip it. Thank you for another excellent video, I truly value your thoughts on these subjects, and the (clearly) hard work that you put into making these videos. Rock on, rockstar.
Thank you so much for this sweet comment!! I'm sorry that you felt precluded from playing Animal Crossing, and I feel your pain! For me I can compartmentalize things to a certain extent but it's still something I think about and it's certainly not ideal!
I had the same thought about the Rito down bed. Really bad implications. Their eating chicken is whatever though, birds eat birds and they're anthropomorphized so they do it in a human way
Edit: worth noting i disagree with nearly every other comment posted under this video. Generally i agree with you completely outside the one nitpick
This is only the tip of the Iceberg. There are a whole host of unsavory ways animals are exploited in games. Pokémon by far being the biggest and worst offender of what you called “humane washing” 💀 But the way I see it as art. Animal exploitation in video games are harmful when they’re not talked about or exposed, which makes me really appreciate this video. The conversations that come from this art and letting it be known where it comes from informs people of its origin and helps bridge the knowledge while bringing awareness of the real life of exploitation of animals.
Thank you for saying that! Even if it's someone's first time considering this discourse (which from the comments seems to be quite a few), I still think it's good to introduce them to considering these things instead of just blindly participating.
Oh my comment was shared!!! ^__^ I did a thing!!!
I play violent videogames and I hate violence in real life lol. That said, things like farming animals in videogames does bother me because it is just so similar to how we use animals in real life and reinforces how animals are meant to be used. I also have my characters not eat meat lol. I played the Witcher 3 and once I realized there was plenty of water and plant foods to heal with, Gerald was on a plant based diet (except for the potions).
Also videogames that abuse animals, but present themselves as utopias bother me a bit. Like with all the people I've seen who fight for human social justice and then turn around and say they wish the pokemon world was real or how pokemon was about "building friendships" like no it was not lol. Pokemon os about beating the snot out of a random pokemon so that it was easier to kidnap and force to submit to your will as it actively resists you and then it is about forcing those pokemon to fight in essentially glorified dog fights. Oh and you are told to kidnap them all. It is a really messed up game that is aimed at kids and it markets a dystopia as a utopia, furthering the idea that non-human beings are here for our enjoyment. So when games have a lack of self awareness, I think they can potentially reinforce harmful beliefs.
Haha, yes it was a great comment, and I agree with all your points here too!
3:01 Ooh. Streets of Rage 2. The nostalgia is strong with this one. 😎And 21:28 yes it would be fun to play Breath of the Wild as a vegan. Will you try it?
I have to thank Paul for that reference; it seems it was a good one because multiple people have commented on it! And I think I may try doing a vegan BOTW run--however, that would require pulling out the Wii U which I think is in the basement somewhere 🤣
The satirical nature of palworld is pretty obvious when you realize you can capture the human npcs, and you can make them work for you just like you can make the animal pals. Obviously no one thinks that beating up humans and making them do free labor for you is ok, but the game subvert your expectations, instead of forbidding you from doing it because it would be just moraly wrong, it tells you "you could do anything. The qustion is, whether you sould". I can understand if some people are disturbed by that game, but thats kinda the point, i think
This seems to be a very common interpretation!
I played green hell in VR wich is a survival game with a cool story and it's horrible to run after a wild boar and spear them to death while they are screaming and trying to escape...
OMG that sounds way too intense!!
Could not play any Monster Hunter game because of this
This video was recommended to me, as I've played all these games with over 2 thousand of hours combined. I've never really thought about the animals or food in these games at all. My partner was a little horrified when I showed them how to capture pals in palworld though. They've also been shocked with my stories of rimworld and the sims. These two games can get pretty wild and inhumane, but that's part of the fun for me. Rimworld allows any animal to be farmed, including typically viewed pet animals (like yorkies), and lets you develop a colony of cannibals that conduct rituals for their prisoners. It gets wild!
I appreciate you watching this and sharing some of your experiences!
True, I was gonna comment red dead redemption 😅
I've heard many vegans talk about this game!
i play these games. i was nervous to watch this video, because every time i hear the discourse on animal welfare in video games, i feel guilty.
i have a hard time explaining this, but i think games like Animal Crossing and Stardew Valley strengthen our bond with (non-human) animals because they create a sentimental attachment to animals you are domesticating with no violence and educate you (in a subtle way!) about other species. admittedly, as a kid, i appreciated the fishing mini game in Animal Crossing because the fish lived. i didn't think about the fear the fish would feel at the time. but this black/white thinking and humane washing clashed with the reality i came to know, which contributed to my views as an adult.
Thanks for sharing your insights on this, Meghan! And I agree that the games you mention do foster an appreciation of and respect for nature, including animals. It's definitely the humane-washing of the things that are exploitive in real life that bothers me, and I do think there's a way to include/honor animals in a non-humane-washed way!
Thank you for bringing up this topic in the very understandable and thoughtful way, I was afraid that you were gonna get trolled by non-vegan who gets irritated easily with these things😅😂 keep up good work!!:)
LOL there has been plenty of that 🙃 But I'm glad I made this because it's an important and under-discussed topic! Thanks for watching!
7:06 you are talking about killing rito for food WHILE using the cuckoo sound effect.... that should be a hint on what do they mean by poultry.... come on now
You can mod stardew valley to get some meat
Ewwww. I'm not surprised, but I'm still gonna feel like these meat eaters going out of their way to add this feature feels cringe to me
The conversation is exactly the same as when parents in the 80's thought their kids would worship demons and turn evil becuase they played DnD.
The simple fact is that doing a thing in a video game has virutally no influence on one's real world behaviors *unless* it is being engaged upon with the explicit purpose of being a 1:1 simulation. Even then, the connection is tenuous at best.
Playing golf games doesn't inherently make someone want to go and golf for real. Hitting X to club a baby seal doesn't make someone want to club a baby seal in real life. Firing a gun in Call of Duty doesn't make someone want to go fire one in real life.
Obviously there is cross interests where people like to do both but enjoying one does not ensure enjoyment of the other.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I don't think nor ever claimed it's as simple as that. But I do think there's lots of nuance there that has been under-explored.
I won't claim to be representative of all gamers, vegans, or vegan gamers, but I rarely have any issues with animals in the games I play. No one in these games is sentient and just like videogames don't cause people to be violent, I don't think they cause animal exploitation. This said, for non-vegans, I agree this can be part of the background noise supporting/normalizing animal ag/products (possibly even intentionally like product placement in some cases), and seeing non-humans as 'things' and not sentient, feeling beings IRL.
I've been a gamer since childhood and vegan for 5 yrs. Some of my favourite games, which I mod heavily are: Skyrim, the Fallout franchise (not 76 lol), Minecraft and Rimworld. Going vegan never changed my gaming habits. I do lots of things in games that I would never do (or want to do) IRL even before going vegan: murdering people, robbery, hunting, and I won't even get into Rimworld. At the end of the day, game NPCs (human, non-human and alien) are not sentient. This said, I really dislike PVP (playing against players) and realistic games depicting real-life war. When I play games, I want to be transported to a new, fictional world to explore and advance into.
Just sharing my opinion and experience, and I respect everyone's choice to boycott games or play them 'vegan' if they wish. Games should be fun and we should all get to play the ones we enjoy however we want to, which is also why I love modding my games so much.
As a side note, some games do harm real-life humans with crunch culture, massive layoffs despite massive profits, or creators who are notoriously bad people.
So many interesting points and I appreciate you sharing! I especially agree with the point about animal exploitation just becoming part of the "background noise" for nonvegan gamers. Re: product placement, my "dairy spon-con" radar was pinging big time in Tears of the Kingdom with the entire 'Hateno Cheese" side adventure. Maybe there's something there, maybe not, but the fact that they are portraying a rural Asian village, which, in real life, would have little to no dairy consumption, really made it stand out.
@@TotallyForkable That's very true, a red flag for sure! All the people who claim that veganism is racist should pause and realize how much dairy is pushed to everyone, and how it's especially harmful to people of non-Caucasian descent.
"Is this wrong?"
No.
Animal Treatment in games matter to me, and also to the human race.'
i do not engage in animal killing in my games, if that breaks the game i wont play it.
I’ve killed so many Lemmings and Worms in my lifetime. I’m a terrible person
When did I say killing animals/creatures in games makes you a terrible person? 🤔
@@TotallyForkable when did I say you did?
When did I say I killed them in game?
non vegan here. I understand your position, and as someone who cares alot for animals i too understand. But im ngl even though i tried my best to earnestly here out your arguments, i found it extremely hard not to role my eyes at certain points. I guess this might just be my natural view on veganism, but its even harder to listen to when we are talking about fictional creatures. I think you hit the nail on the head when you brought up the violence in video game parallel.
I don't believe animal representations in video games are vegan at all - because that's not 'animal-free' - even if some people think it is - because it's no more animals in reality, but I argue it's a representation. The issue is that this is where veganism breaks down, because it's important for animals to have freedom of movement - and that might include into the digital space and I feel it's important to show the world what a vegan world is supposed to look like, as well as how the world should look like and how we should treat animals - if we don't bother them, but that means compromising vegan principles - and that's where the vegan society's definition unfortunately works against itself yet again.
I agree that if I'm escaping into a "fantasy world," I want my ideal treatment of animals to be reflected in that world.
I think the way to address this is to hold people accountable with facts about these realities. Vegans are arguably 2% of the population and personally I think when you’re cognizant of the reality and choose to play the games even engaging in fantasy where human suffering isn’t out of the realm of enjoyment.
It happens constantly in the role playing world. Slavery and any form of injustice are constantly being role played. Consent and understanding of what’s morally responsible is what’s important. Using a sentient being for any purpose without their consent is wrong. PERIOD. If you understand that go wild playing any game.
You shouldn’t come out of the experience thinking I can’t wait to try this in the real world.
Now where this gets dicey is the advent and the eventual rise of better virtual reality technology.
Once you get to that point then there will be mental health problems related to that. Think of military personnel and slaughter house workers who display these symptoms.
So regulation and education and research and development.
People don’t do bad things because they’re bad. They do them because they’re ignorant and broken and foster communities of hate and perpetuate these ideologies because of a lack of mental health care and good role models.
Thanks for reading if you did. I’d like to hear what others think about what I said.
Excellent point! I think, like with many things, if your mental health isn't in a good place, violent imagery or disturbing stimuli can have a greater negative impact on your thoughts and, possibly, behaviors. While I don't think it's fair to write it off as "violence in video games is problematic, full stop," it's definitely something people need to be more open to exploring.
9:46 well in the GAME, we kinda need food to heal ourselves
I'm not saying no one should eat meat in the game, but as I said there's plenty of plant alternatives for healing purposes.
@@TotallyForkable I understand what you are saying but I think you should of mentioned that meat heals you more that plants some times
I don't like eating meat. I've been gaming all my life. Never ONCE has it crossed my mind a video game is trying to tell me chicken is the be-all-healthiest food. It isn't that deep; I'm also a 90's kid.
I like the idea of a catch and release system where it tracks your progress toward goals because I imagine there are people who would love to play games, but feel unsettled by certain ideas. Video games should be accessible and enjoyed by everyone.
The reason there are animals that you can interact with in games is because the mechanics help make the world feel more alive. Can you imagine how empty Breath of the Wild would feel if there weren't animals roaming through the forests? Stardew Valley or Animal Crossing would also feel a little empty without the ability to go fishing/catching insects in my opinion. It could change these games in a really big and detrimental way to outright remove them. What would you propose to replace these mechanics? What should fill the wilds of Breath of the Wild? What could you do in the water in Stardew and Animal Crossing?
On the real life implications of fictional animal violence, it should be noted that every study done on violent media and real violence has found that video game violence doesn't impact how we act in the real world or the evidence is inconclusive. I would imagine fictional animal violence is similar where it doesn't correlate to real life behavior. Humane washing in video games may give people an unrealistic idea on how certain animal products are created, and that may impact real buying habits, but I'm not sure it's a game's place to inform people about the animal cruelty and real life impacts involved. Those vegan games you showcased may be amazing and informative, but as you pointed out they require animal cruelty for the experience. I can't imagine anyone will play those games for 10, 20, 30 years. I highly doubt that anyone will try porting the games over to a gameboy or calculator like other masterpiece games.
I agree that the world would feel empty without the animals and never said they shouldn't be present! Just that I find a dissonance between the "peacefully being in nature" element and "killing and taking from it" a bit jarring. Re: your question about what devices could be used instead of fishing in something like ACNH, while I'm not a game designer, a few possibilities are: finding rare shells, digging up fossils (as is already in the game), swimming underwater and taking pictures of the fish for the museum as opposed to catching them, same could be done for bugs (could be a similarly challenging mechanic to the fishing).
I think there's a ton of untapped creativity in this regard and I hope to see more of it in the next few generations of games!
@@TotallyForkable thank you for replying! Like the rest of the video I think you raise really interesting ideas in your comment. I'm not vegan myself and I don't know any vegan people who play video games, so I've never heard this viewpoint before. I appreciate the different world view and think this is a great video!
I am a vegan gamer and my favourite genre is survival. This genre is filled with mechanics that encourage or force animal murder/exploitation. For example, the first time I played The Long Dark, I wasn't even vegan but I was shocked and appalled that you can catch a rabbit by stunning them with rocks and then have the options to let them go or crack their neck in a very graphic animation. I couldn't bring myself to do it at first, then I started doing it but looking away, and then eased into this mecanic and started to become insensitive to the violent scene, because ultimately it is a bunch of pixels, not a real conscious animal.
It is indeed conflicting to be a vegan and also love games that incorporate so much animal violence. But I came to terms with it by being very conscious and mindful of the fact that it's fantasy, not real life. There is also an argument to be made that a survival setting makes it more justifiable to harm animals, because in real life this is also more of a grey matter.
What I will say is thay playing these games does in no way, shape or form make me feel less strongly about the injustice animals are experiencing in our world.
The real danger is in regards to non-vegan players because these games do perpetuate the notion that animals are there for us to use and abuse without a second thought.
I also wish there were more games that simply lack this element of animal exploitation and harm completely and normalize living in harmony with animals.
Thank you for the interesting video!
This was such an insightful comment and I enjoyed reading your thoughts! Your journey with accepting the violence in games bolsters my theory about it becoming more normalized the more you experience it--and I don't think in any way that makes you any less vegan or caring about animals in the real world, just an observation!
And I think you're spot-on that it's a different story for non-vegan gamers who already don't think twice about animal exploitation and games reinforcing that.
And yes to games normalizing living in harmony! 🌱🥰🐷🐴🐣💖
@@TotallyForkable Thank you for responding! I'm glad you found my comment interesting. 😇
Regarding games leaning more towards harmony with animals, there is an instance of this in Horizon: Forbidden West (very good game btw). There is a whole post-apocalyptic "primitive" village that are "vegetarians"(vegans basically because they don't farm animals at all). They believe in non-violence, living in harmony with the land, and they also give moral consideration to advanced animal-like machines, treating them like they have feelings.
Other than this, you still have mechanics like hunting animals and eating meat, but that was the first time I saw the concept of non-violence towards any sentient being explored in modern media.
“Wouldn’t they be better off in their actual natural environment?”
Would they though? Nature is brutal
video games are problems
They definitely have their problematic aspects!
I didn't care for most of this video. I realise I am not the target audience as a nonvegan, but it's not like youtube prefaces reccomendations unless the little thumbnail reveals it. I play video games so that's why I watched it. It felt like you were specifically trying to find things that could be potentially wrong, especially in the breath of the wild section about Rito felt like a really uncharitable reading of the text. I understand that you are reading it through your vegan lens, but it felt like you jumped from poultry to cannibalism like there aren't actual animals, including ones that resemble chickens in the game. Other than that, it felt like you were continually getting on your soapbox, which don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from. I, too, wish there were more ethical animal care practices. I don't like Palworld. I don't think it serves as a juxtaposition of cruelty as compared to Pokemon. I don't like your response to the troll, but personal taste, other vegans may feel you stuck it to them so leave that to them. I understand that it is difficult to be a vegan in games, I'm glad some games are giving more options to allow for that. However I hope you don't forget that most people still eat meat, people including hunting and other mecahnics like that isn't necessarily complacency, it's accurate to life.
I can predict every word of this based on the first few sentences, it's such a common anti-vegan opinion. Not going to argue, just saying it's not original.
@@tassaron Where is the anti vegan opinion? I really want to know. Also don't quite understand why you replyed if you weren't actually going to say anything.
If you're not going to take into consideration, and keep saying "I agree" but then not seeing the whole point of why it might be wrong, then you don't really agree now do you? Like ofc certain aspects may be something you don't agree with and that's fine. But this is from a vegan standpoint, if you don't see the wrong with animal cruelty then no, you might not get this video. Like you said, you did not care for most of this video.
@@tassaron yeah it's nothing new 😭😂
I appreciate you watching it even though it's not aligned with your own viewpoints!
stardew valley is vegetarian propaganda.
🤣💚
'they react like real life animals would' literally the next scene you show is a pal taking bullets and not even flinching. no, they don't act like real life animals would, not even close. Monster Hunter is a closer representation. I tried to give this video a fair watch but this a dishonest critique.
Is the old game whack-a-mole going to cause people to go out and start clubbing baby seals? No... games exist to do things you won't/can't do in real life, they do not inform you how to act in real life... games are an escape from real life.
games are no escape, they reflect real life. we want all the things we are used to, money, trade, animal abuse, drugs, candy, endless building and replacing nature. killing games are the most common, just like real life.
Are you seriously complaining that VIDEO GAMES aren't 'realistic' enough when children play these games? No kidding fishing isnt' REaLiSTiC. No kidding milking cows IsN'T reAliSTiC. I'm playing a STARDEW VALLEY, not a farming / hunting simulator. God, I can't. This video is awful.
How is this video awful? If we take red dead redemption, it's a perfect example of people praising it because of its realism, the core here is that we romanticize the exploitation of animals. Sure it isn't real, but a lot of people actually think cows magically produce milk just like that. This video is to challenge in how we think about things, she's not saying everything in these games are inherently wrong, just that some games don't need certain things to be realistic or things we can find enjoyment in. It's a valid criticism because it shows how we see animal exploitation, as you said, you're not a vegan so I'm not surprised you don't think this topic is worth discussing, if you don't think said exploitation is wrong irl, I don't expect you to understand it in a fictional sense either.
I love Stardew valley, but as a vegan I do have certain things in mind that are a constant reminder of what the real world is like, sdv got magic and other things that aren't in our world, even if it is based on it. I dissociate fairly often because of the game content, and I still enjoy it, however it's always there in my mind because of my lifestyle and ideology, and I would love more games that are exploration based or simulation games that are not based on hunting and gathering.
20:14 Queensh/t 👑 o7
LOL 🙏🏻