TOP TIER JETS VS TOP TIER HELIS - What’s The Balance? - WAR THUNDER
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- Hey guys! Welcome back to the Thunder with Muffin channel. A new challenge in War Thunder is waiting for you in this video TOP TIER JET FIGHTERS VS TOP TIER HELICOPTERS!!! Stay tuned!
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A friend of mine fly's AH-64's Apache's for the US army and in their simulations helicopters win close in dog fights almost every time against jets. The only thing the jets can do is keep their distance and lob missiles. People forget helicopters can pivot in place and keep their nose on target and can pull some fairly crazy moves.
Exactly. In real life, helos are easy targets for things like AMRAAMs and the like. However, here in WT, Gaijin makes helos invisible to radar missiles when low to the ground, so they get all the benefits of real life, plus artificial ones from Gaijin. There is a reason the Ka-50 slammed ground RB for so long.
@@mavor101 Yes they also have the benefit of knowing they're fighting jets. Rarely will helicopters carry that amount of air to air missiles.
@@flyinglunchbox6169 And the funny thing is most of the helos spawned, especially in the 14v10, were *REALLY* crap helos. Again, if everyone spawned in Z-19/Z-10 with AA loadout, the jets would have stood zero chance and just been wiped off the map. They are *that* OP.
@@mavor101 It's more that jets are not particularly great at downing helicopters if the helicopters knows what they're doing, the main counter to helicopters is short range anti air which includes MANPADS, SPAAG's, and even self guided heavy machine guns/cannons fire. We've seen in Ukraine very few helicopters downed by jets. Almost all of them have been taken down by MANPADS or SPAAG's and even some ATGM's.
@@flyinglunchbox6169In war thunder you don’t have that… We don’t even have infantry outside of April fools, and the reskinned Hedgies…
Top tier jets
Hunter.F58
??? I mean props to the guy using it
The top tier jets we have in game are all from around the 1970s/early 80s, whereas the top tier helicopters are extremely modern from around 2000-2010. The helis have a tech advantage.
Not wrong but the most recent apache in the game is from 1996 so, half true half false.
@@jaehyung2737 Mi-35M is from 2005
Good ole KA-50s showing how balanced they are as usual
After the nerf dying to Vikhr is massive skill issue ngl. Just dont fly straight at them lmao.
@@Boris_The_TurtleViks weren’t nerfed genuinely. That was said to cull backlash.
@@BARelement They were nerfed. Its not that much but its noticeable. If you are in a fast moving jet they can't hit you unless you fly straight at or away from them.
In real life, I reckon helis would be sitting ducks against jets. Unfortunately WT has given them magical stealth properties that defend against both Radar and heat seaking missiles, while also giving them broken damage models that allow them to take hits that should cripple or destroy them.
im sure you spend a lot of time playing as a heli and seeing how op it is to be a heli right? they wouldnt suffer or anything
the helis also can see where they are because of the markers
@@davelabaton8901there were no markers, tf you talking about
@@CatTop did they played in simulator?
To answer both of your concerns, one the helis are usually around the speed of the ground so PD can't see them the only way to lock is getting lucky with a non PD lock, and for the heat seekers most of the helis have IRCM. Just sneak in with guns is usually the best way to do it without wasting missiles
TY-90's are nasty, almost unflareable and pull super hard.
Which plane uses that?
@@humanperson3251 chinese helicopters
mavricks would be nastier if people launched them from 6+ miles away
@@SHEEPS_123 atleast its doggeable if u try hard enougth
From what i recall there was an test where the US army wanted to see how affective one of their attack helicopters would be against an adversary in a fighter jet, the results were astounding, the attack helicopter was able to kill/down 6 enemy fighter jets, then they stopped the test, the helicopter was unharmed every time. *NOTE* I may be wrong about some facts, i do not recall the model of helicopter either the apache or ah-1z viper, in addition i think they used US aircraft to play the roll of enemy aircraft, and no they did not actual shoot down real planes (i don't think) i think they used simulation equipment.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-CATCH
3:01
Typical f-14 player not cutting his afterburner when flaring a missile
Honestly, they both had modern weapons so it makes sense that the helicopters would do so well.
No it doesnt, jets should have a great missle range advantage and helis in war thunder are modeled so badly that they can withstand 120mm sabot and fly like nothing happend
Biggest lie I ever heard.jets are way more better because they have a speed advantage so if a missle is fired at them.they can flare it easy while a heli takes time to dodge a missle due to its slow speed.
@@igorwinnicki9834sabot is not explosive, if you hit something not important it wont crash
In real life fighter aircraft are advised not to fight helicopters (attack) unless they have superior numbers
@@clednplz2294false
Yes, I expected the helicopters to dominate. Their guns can track, they can rotate quickly to keep targets in their sites, all-aspect missiles, and flares. My experience has been that jets have one pass to try and down a helicopter.
I think people forget these helos are as new as 2017 for the z19. The f14 was first flown in the 1970s. Maybe if it was a full team of mig 29s, or f16 netz, or even kfirs carrying either pythons or r60s it would have been a bit closer to our expectations.
F-16C with 6x mav Ds, 2x lgbus, and 4x 9mikes flown correctly and using targeting pod would smoke the low lvl helis. but yk for that the jets would actually need to fly high 6000m+
That's a really great idea I never thought of but always wanted to see.
It couldve been worse for the jets if the helis were mix firing their ordinance since they can guide the proxy atgms like vikhirs while using iglas or Ty90 with offbrand hellfire for Z19
6:22 every man love that sound
When Warthunder has maps the size of DCS, give me a call. This is absolutely ridiculous and we all know it. Nothing against you stud muffin!
Should never be the case
@@Optimusprime56241 For the planes...
@@johncee853 good idea!!! Make the grind even worse and take even longer!!!
Didn’t expect it to be that even. There were a lot of gunfights which I think benefited the helis
I thought the jets would win, seeming the 2nd f16 took agms, you would have thought he would have kept his distance
@@cliftxn2138 You're overestimating War thunder players too much xD
The real reason jets counter helis in ground rb is because the helis are too busy in the gunner sight
wow, this is really impressive. Thanks for making these videos.
The reason helis can easily win is because they have MAW which auto-flares any incoming IR missile. While jets have to look around and get no warning
Speaking as someone who flies fighter jets as AA in ground battles at or near top tier, our radar has a hard time taking out helicopters. Maybe a tornado with ground radar can lock them easier???
Honestly, this might be much easier to win with a jet than it looks from this video. Su39 could do rly well. Or mb using some lazer guided bombs on new mirage or f14b to kill some helis at very low alt.
When clay pigeons take things very personally against jets.
Love the vids
For those of you wondering, Jets cannot radar lock helis for some reason (with regular radar or doppler, it's painfully hard to lock) and ir missiles get one flared by automatic countermeasure releases 💀. Meanwhile the Chinese social credit launcher swings 16 unflarable missiles at you. And their guns aims by themself 💀. Basically 2000+ tech on helis vs NERFED 1970 tech on planes (radar locks and ir missiles are underperforming for ARB balance purposes, and even if they were perfoming as good as they do irl, they would still be behind by 50 years)
Woah this just came out didn't even notice
Helis ability to take multiple missiles and launch ground missiles at jets which cant be dodged is wacked
Not sure why the jet players were using F-16s. A couple MiG-29s with R-27Ts or R-27ERs would have been better. At range, the Helicopters are entirely at the Jet's mercy, but at close range, the Jet's IR missiles can be flared, but stingers, iglas can not.
Not everyone grinds Russia
funny how in real life during jets vs helis the helis racked a 5-1 K/D against F-15s, A-10s, F-4s and A-7s in the gun only fights
Round 2 feels like Ace combat 6 the first mission when the city is being attacked but the video is great I like those kind of contents!
I dont think theAH-1G is a top tier heli, yet i still saw it.
As an experiencet jetfighter player i can tell you that most of your "experienced" jetfighters are not experienced. Some doesnt even turn off afterburner while using flares. and you can do both with 1 button press. might be a Replay bug though.
No reason for helis to win this much
you should try helicopters vs ships
This outcome was expected. War Thunder helicopters are not balanced at all and helocucks can just camp off map the entire match, unthreatened by aircraft and ground vehicles alike.
Never expected it
you should do wheel top tier vehicles vs tracked world war 2 tanks
Its tough in War Thunder since missiles struggle to track. But if you have Mavericks its really easy, just come from high up. Only scary things are TY-90s.
that thing doesnt care about flares it just go for u
This is pretty much what I expected except I didn't think the jets would do as well as they did still.
Gaijin is unfortunately under the impression that helicopters infact do not have an IR signature. So locking missiles onto them is nearly impossible.
Meanwhile jets don't have that issue. So helicopters can engage at any range they feel like.
Then the planes need to move in close to use their guns which puts them at significant risk too.
This is why I think players should be able to take out helicopters into air sim battles
I have yet lost a fight against a jet in my AH-1Z. That turret and them AIM 9M's are just too much for em in GRB
Let’s petition to add helis into Air RB, and take them out of Tank RB since they are so capable.
Russian helicopters are damn near impossible to kill with aircraft beyond crashing into them. They’re almost impossible to radar lock and heat seeking missiles also don’t work since they have every IR countermeasure none to man. I somehow have none of these problems against any other heli.
Bro let’s talk about how there were like 4 tier 6s and they were all premium
you have to remember top tier jets are from the 80s while top tier helis are state of the art
Try a10 it is surprisingly effective in my experience
3:34 FRONGUS
The Jet players weren't using their advantages and playing right into the helis hands.
You should really do a heli vs bluewater ship video!
I dont get why missiles can't lock helis easily at all, especially top down approaches. Why? Heli engines are all between 600-1500 degrees celcius. The avg engine being between 800-1000.
CELSIUS? YOU SURE?
I'm not surprised, aren't helicopters busted in-game?
The only chance a jet has vs ready and waiting helis is to stay BVR and lob sets from near max range, unless maybe the jets stay super high, send one and fly straight up towards the sun to defend
This tells you how broken the KA-50 are.
no i didnt not expect that i thought that a jet would just radar missile the helis from like like 10kms away
Those two things fighting with skills until top tier spaa come
Maybe guns only would help the jets
A-10 Versus helicopters next?
I don't understand why would the Jets even get close for any reason? The jets have AAM there is no reason to get close once they spike them from 30km or 40km then there is not a thing a Heli could do the plane pulls up Angles way above what the heli can and launch on the bogeys he sees. BFM during ACM it looked like for many of these folks, but hey good idea for a video you have thought Muffin 👍 Why even WVR when there's no reason to BVR would be the best way👌
Because (in war thunder) helicopters are practically immune to any type of missile when at low altitudes, forcing the jets to go guns
@@humanperson3251 why don't they use the radar missiles than? I guess War Thunder is a little more of a kid game than something like DCS?
@@farmcat9873In war thunder you can effectively lock helis… They are immune to radar missiles.
It’s pretty epic to see how the helix loses control and crashed and I thought the jet would destroy the Helis in every round
Yes Z-19 vs like 4-5 would be fair
you can easily kill a z-19 in a 1v1
@@kilian3006 you can easily kill any jet in every chinese heli above 9.7
@@badrepputation not if the jet knows its there and pre-flaring
@@kilian3006 Yes, if the jet knows you exact position AND is pre-flaring you are dead but then you've also done something wrong. If you play the heli right and hide than you will win 9/10 times.
It takes one good situation for the Heli and a missile
MiG at 7:57 thought he was Guts
The day top tier jets get IRCCMs on their missiles is the day helicopters will have a very hard time surviving. For now, Helps are far superior
Is AH-1G modern helicopter? Of Mi-4av?
Was phyldaily participating as the helicopter.
Honestly yes helis are mad broken against jets
If the jets used mavericks intelligently it would have gone a lot better for them
We still haven't had WW2 and post war props against Heli's yet have we?
I was the first person to shoot at native in the first round
they looked like they were going to hit, but they didn't
The jets played horribly tbh. If the _14 just slinged phoenixes away from 15 km it would've been enoug to clear them all. These challenges often depend on the skill of the pilots, not the vehicles themselves
Let’s see you do this again at all them. Let’s se did it tracks 100%.
the problem is how low the helis are, the radar struggles to track them down there
The jets deff were premium plane players💀💀💀
It takes a single ka50 to wipe the floor with most jets in the game
I would have taken a tornado with tv guided bombs... staying close to the ground would have failed
It takes 1 Z-10 ......
abundance of skill issue with the jet team
69k subs nice👍👍👍
How to join one of these?
Hunter vs ww2 axis aircraft
I think the jets were going at it wrong, they are trying to fight them like air targets, when seeing them as ground targets, and exploiting their blind spots (right above them) and dive bombing using guns (so they can’t flair)
Instead they are going straight on, where the hell’s can exploit their better maneuverability
“BNZ” on top tier near the ground = compressing into the dirt… Their best bet was to do it with the missiles if they were going to do that. But yeah overall w guns? Not really.
@@BARelement I mean helis can just flare, or use their better maneuvering
i knew the helis where gonna destroy before i watched this vid
i mean i think the jet players were just bad they should have picked f14b s and mig 29s and use bvr from like 15km
omg i saw atleast 2 helis that werent using lock on for their turret guns, a ka50 and an apache. foolish mistake. they were aiming manually >-
Ka50 only one who can throw a punch
Problem is WarThunder is arcadelike you can't fly a Jet fighter like they would be in real combat.
am i the only one wondering why they don’t shoot there missles far away so they done get shot down or hit with a missle?
like how
I am the 1000th like 😊
I’ve done one v ones with friends that have top tier heli’s in jets
I knew they were cracked and broken already
Irl against modern helicopters, wvr fights favor the helicopter greatly
Impossible :V
Ace Combat _lied_ about Helis being free points!
Gaijin has given helos a ton of *insane* buffs compared to how they are in real life. They are basically 100% immune to both IR and radar missiles when low to the ground.. this is one of the reason all of the ground AA in the game is given the ability to optically guide their missiles, because otherwise, if ground AA was forced to rely on radar or IR lock, they would do shit all vs helos.
In reality, helos have a massive radar signature from their moving rotors, which would make them a 100% kill when targeted by any radar missile. Again though, gaijin wants to make helos artificially powerful because of their game-focused balance... need to have every player "on an even footing" and all that BS.
BTW if this test was done with all helo players running the chinese Z-10s, the jet team would have been absolutely wiped. Chinese helos have the best IR missiles in the game (way better than what 12.0 jets have for some reason), along with being extremely manuverable, impossible to hit with IR or radar missiles when low to the ground, and fast. You can see Z-10s and z-19 players camping air spawn in ground RB getting 8+ air kills every game because of how OP the IR AA missiles they get are.
Also,why the hell do radars go trash when aircraft or heli are close to ground ?
The lead marker and line and everything just off the enemy and wobbles or goes crazy, doesn't make sense
@@stevenortiz9008ground clutter
@@stevenortiz9008 On some radars this is somewhat accurate to real life. On others, however, it's just "ground clutter" used as an excuse to make radar missiles ineffective at people flying low to the ground. As a game, a lot of players would be frustrated that they got hit by an "unfair missile", so Gaijin continues to make all radars in the game, even the really high tech ones, incapable of holding lock low to the ground so that these players can just hug it and avoid radar missiles.
With the benefit of SPAA having missiles that don’t fuse below 20m above the ground 😂. So even hand guided some of them just don’t fuse…
@@BARelement Yea. Gaijin's artificial balancing is hilariously bad sometimes.
do these planes know that they completely outrange the helicopters
Fun Fact: The A10's ATG missles can lock onto helicopters 🚁
Do with this information as you please 😈
it even can lock on planes too :)
@@Hubert_G I've always gotten bent trying lmao
L3 vs Maus
Hej Muffin i think i can kill alle 10 helikopters with a fw 190
Why the Jets even getting in Heli range? They all have BVR. Only saw on Mig also take the alt advantage you have as a Jet. Real world the Heli would not even know there is a Jet and it will be down. Hence heli's will operate outside strike distance or only if air superiority is achieved.
i wanted t see this
People no matter where you shot a helicopter will crash cuz it will hit something important same goes for jets they have frame fuel tanks elevators and all these other moving parts that if dmg lower the mobility and capability of same does with helicopters and they both are armed with there own equipment ment for there own purposes but a good battle ready machine must also be ready to deal with what it isn’t designed for like the A-10 they are trained how to dog fight fighter jets incase it happens and yes they are built like flying tanks but that doesn’t change the fact that more then likely a helicopter crew is trained to deal with fighter jets and they have warning systems to know when they are being targeted it mostly comes down to what helicopter and what jet and capability of each aircraft some helicopters are troop transport most of the time don’t have the capability to take on fighter jets same goes to an attack helicopter seeing a transport plane within range (which shouldn’t happen much) that transport plane does not have the capability
Keep in mind that in real games these Helis have Top Tier SPAA on their side. So trying to revenge kill a heli that MERKED your tank is even more impossible.
Makes me want to just turn into one of those heli players just so I can avoid the headache :}.
become heli pilled
join the heli gang
A 10 10.0 Top Tier
The toptier helis have eccm missiles.... they cant be flared off
helis are simply too powerful for jet fighters, especially the the russian helis with the vikhr missiles