The Smarter Approach to Injuries and Pain
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- There is an entire field of scientific research that is being ignored by the general population. Instead, we listen to fitness celebrities, athletes, instagram models, and sometimes even doctors, physical therapists, and chiropractors, who don't know, forgot, or don't fully realize it's practical implications.
This field (or perhaps one of many) is pain science.
We all experience pain in our lives-some of us almost constantly and yet very few people know anything about pain (maybe because we just want to be rid of it.)
But pain is an incredibly important tool we can use. There are people with certain disorders that don't experience pain, and contrary to what you might think, they live in a semi-constant state of anxiety, never knowing if they've scratched their cornea or torn a muscle. It's not nearly as pleasant as you might believe.
As a former biochemist turned movement teacher, I've had to deal with a lot of injuries throughout my career. I have used modern pain science and rehabilitation concepts to recover from my own injuries and to help my clients, students, and family deal with theirs-often with dramatic effect. I have skin in the game because unlike most doctors and physical therapists, I'm out there training two to six hours almost every day.
Over a year ago, I decided to write a book so I could share, on a large scale, this approach to the pain and injuries that we have to deal with over the course of our lives. This video is an outline of that book's basic premise: work with pain, use it as a guide, and use movement and loading as your stimuli to demand your body becomes stronger while desensitizing your injured or painful joints.
Learn more or contact us for training opportunities at www.themovementcult.com.
Enjoy
Let me know if you have any questions or concepts you'd like me to cover in a future video!
Hello Bren,
I have a very specific question. I do a lot of handstand work and after my handstand sessions I do get a lot of stress in my upper trapeze and neck. In the beginning it was only tightness but as time went by it got more more painful. I do know that with handstand my shoulders are a lot elevated and over head. So my question is: can you give me a few exercises that complement the handstand training for musular balance.
All the best, Simon :) I'm very happy that I found your channel. It's really helpful.
@@SimonRsntl Passive hangs and some ring or bar dips come to mind
talk about foamroler!
"If you can do more with less pain, consistently, you are improving. And that is really really important." Great wisdom, thank you for this video!
What I’ve tried to rehab back pain:
Spinal waves and more mobility
Ignore
Continue training + McGill method
McGill method exclusively
McGill method + low back ability program from ATG
the latter + MOVERS method.
The last one is the one helping me the most. I hope to recover from my injury (ruptured intervertébral disc nucleus) completely one day. It has taken me down dark paths with regular suicidal thoughts
"Your body is not a fucking chair" 🤣🤣
My video notes:
You can’t « bulletproof » joints completely - only reduce injury risk
Pains ~ = injury for this video
Pain is 100% an output from the brain, a danger warning.
Nociception: chemical, temperature, mechanical
Some evidence shows damage but no pain ! (NLB players with full tears but no symptom
Moseley Ted talk: snake bite to toe, no pain immediately. 1 year later hit the toe, no damage but lots of pain
Nassim Taleb: anti fragility
The body is anti fragile. It can adapt to stimulus unlike an old chair.
Doing more things with less pain = improvement
That is a very handsome cat behind you at the 20 second mark. Hahaha. Seriously tho, you really helped my carpal tunnel with this method and I went from wearing a wrist brace to doing handstands. If I stop training handstands for an extended period of time, the pain comes back. Really goes to show how important moving is to stay healthy.
Possibly the only person I’ve seen reference ‘Anti-Fragile’ in CZcams land. Love it.
A huge help has been proper mineral supplementation. Specifically Zinc, Magnesium and iodine. In forms other than oxides.
After wrestling for 8+ years, I felt my back was never going to be the same. Chronic back pain day in and day out. Bren used his knowledge to fix my pain through movement. My back has never been stronger, more flexible, and with less pain as a result.
Happy to help, Jack :). let's catch up soon!
Great video. I can't believe how little attention this perspective on pain is getting today
Thanks Karl! Yeah- it's still mind boggling to me how little people know about pain science.
What a banger of a video. This channel is soooooo UNDER-FLIPPIN-RATED. Like for real dude. Good job. You having 900 subs is a joke. You will be hella succesfull on YT in this lifetime for sure for sure.
ahahah, thanks Fanda! I love the energy bro, thank you. The goal is to keep making better and better videos and change the way the world thinks about movement :). The channel is small now but it's really motivating hearing wonderful messages from people like you how helpful these videos are- much more in store and currently in the works. Cheers!
I think it's relatively easy to know how much load you can exert onto an injured area. The hard parts are 1) truly localising the source of pain and 2) knowing what kind of exercises to do to strategically stress that area. Which is why those of us who can afford it will go to a physio...
I actually disagree almost completely, and you don’t have to truly localize the source of pain- it’s functionality almost always useless. More detail in the new rehab video, coming soon 👊
@@BrenVez that would be super useful and save me money!
Thank you! This was masterful! Yours is a renaissance approach - synthesis of the psycho-physiological and bio-mechanical aspects. I sit for long periods in meditation and its remarkable how the body can signal 'you are going to die if you don't move' to 'oh, never mind' in about 30 seconds IF you can remember to remember that the signal also carries noise.
Another insightful comment Anogoya, You're exactly right and meditation is a wonderful example of this. Not sure if you've heard of this, but just as you've mentioned, this is actually called the biopsychosocial approach/model to pain.
Great video. Cant wait for your book
This video is eye opening.
This is important information. Especially for those of us over 40 years of age. I subscribed and looking forward to learning more from you. 👍 Movement quality is a prize worth polishing.
Thank you my friend! Movement quality but also movement freedom and intelligence :).
Super interesting Video and a great way of presenting this knowledge, very calm but serious and easy to understand, much appreciated
Just found our channel and watched a couple of your videos and subscribed since this is the rare type of content I enjoy and something that actually is worth spending a little time on CZcams
Keep it up Bren!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!! This is incredible information and super underrated. 1000% agreed with you and yes, our body is amazing. There is something I keep struggling with for a few years and this made me realized how powerful our mind is, either for positive or negative.
This is absolutely fascinating, and I knew parts of it, but hadn't put two and two together quite like this. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful! You're very welcome.
Wow...great advice!!
Great summary of the neurology of pain and the adaptive nature of the body to stimulus (or lack thereof). I'm looking forward to the book and future content you put out!
Thank you Naufal! Glad you enjoyed it :).
Thank you for this video, i've always been doin sport all my life since i was a child, always moving, always doing a lot a differents sports... It's been two years i'm struggling with some hip, inner tights (adductors) and shoulder injuries... It's very hard for me to not be moving all the time as i want to... I keep faith and try news thing all the tim, i know it's gonna be allright with patience and movement ! I see that youe are a fan of Nassim Nicholas Taleb too ! From France. Paulo
thank you so much!
Really looking forward to that book
Absolutely, you're so welcome :).
Bren, been sifting through your content and really enjoying it. I'm curious if you are familiar with the work of Dr. Sarno and Dr. Howard Schubiner as it relates to chronic pain. Many of the principles you discuss here overlap and I'm very encouraged to find someone incorporating a deeper understanding of pain not always being structural along with the importance of physical fitness/movement. Your kotguy review was my introduction to your channel and I loved the points you made on there about pain. I have had knee pain for years and while I love and have followed many of Ben's protocols, it has only truly gotten better after gaining a deeper understanding of pain and not being focused or convinced that something was physically wrong or broken. Another term practitioners are using is called mind body syndrome or perceived danger pain. I want to say I read that same snake bite example in Schubiners book but I'm sure it's cited in many different places. Would love to discuss these topics more with you in the future as it seems you have excellent insight and a unique perspective that blends multiple disciplines.
Very interesting general info about how to view injuries. I agree that a more specific video on how to go about figuring out your injury would also be interesting. I've got some weird chronic shoulder injury from overuse (as in there was no partucular event I can tie it to). When it comes to shoulder issues everybody seems to have that front shoulder pain/supraspinatus impigement. Whereas mine is back of the shoulder somewhere around back of the armpit...in that place where lats, teres major and tris long head meet. It's like you say in the video, I'm now trying to figure this shit out mostly by feel, using my intuition and what I've learned about anatomy and rehab(mediocre knowledge as of yet:) ). Currently, humerus internal rotation when the arm is raised in front or side, and also overhead pressing (like hs push ups) seem to be the most irritating\pain inducing patternts. Strangely enough, pulling is fine. I've tried of course all of the usual RC strengthing stuff but it helps less than I'd hoped. Maybe kettlebell straight arm work could help to force those muscles to fire and stabilize. Because my other shoulder problem for both of them was the instability with clunking\catching sensations, this had been going on even before the pain and injury.
Thanks! 😊
Thank you.
You're welcome Jonny
Great video, through years of bodybuilding I have destroyed both shoulders. Diagnosis was osteoarthritis and the doctor said I have worn out my joints as far as a 90 year old.
I could never again do overhead exercises, push-ups and exercises that stress the shoulders, I have to take it easy.
That was about 18 years ago and since then I am on my own way of movement.
I have tried many things and now I am back to bodyweight and skills training. I did MovNat for a long time and worked more and more on my overall flexibility.
There is so much that would be interesting and I see that much is still possible, if you do not always trust diagnoses 100%, but trust your perception.
Thanks for your input, too bad you live so far away. Maybe you will come to Austria one day.
All the best to you
Awesome video!
This reminds me of my little league football days in the 1970’s when I would complain to my coach about being hurt and he’d say,” Get up and shake it off. That’s just your brain trying to trick you into believing you’re hurt.” A lot of things to be learned from pee-wee football.
Seriously though, if the brain is sending mixed signals, how do you know when to back off and when to press on?
Awesome video Bren! :)
Thanks Sina :)
Great video. Thank you. I can see how it would apply to me being fit and in my 30s but how would this work for my mum who is close to 80 and who has a collapses vertebrate and put on bedrest only allowed to move for 30mins a few times a day? Walking hurts her and she probably has osteoporosis as well. Looking forward to more of your videos.
Awesome information. Subscribed !
Thanks! See you on the next one!
Master!
🙏
This was very helpful and interesting. I'm looking forward to hearing more about your book!
Thank you, I'm looking forward to finishing it for you guys!
@@BrenVez Cool, let us know when it's done.
I wonder if Ido will ever write a book. Even if not techniques just the concepts and reasoning.
Massage is movement 🙌🏻
Thanks for your intersting i will be happy if you tell us how heal injuried hamstring because overstretching.
Good video. Any advice for chronic right hip pain, gets irritated even after runs, but also even just walking (especially up hill for both running or walking .
Hey Bowl, yes, but we'll need to cover the general approach first. This video was all about the 'what' but we actually didn't go into any depth on 'how'- if this video was the 30,000ft view, the book will also be walking you through the process from ground level.
I'm also thinking about making another video summarizing my approach to actually doing the Rehab, as I've received a lot of comments and messages similar to yours since posting this video.
THANK YOU! I have a knee injury since im 7 years old (now im 22). I hit both of my knees on an edge and then bone fragments split of into my patella. Now I know that my pain are just my nociceptors and I just have to practise movement in a free and improvising way. What a joy is it to have a body. :-) I am really intersted to get your book, is it out now?
Book not out yet. Stay on the lookout :)
Nice video Bren, what about ribcage injuries? Been dealing with them for almost 2 years now of and on. Mostly from the qdr.. it takes alot of time to heal every time and this makes it hard to do the work/ other work... Any tips?
Look out for the rehab video coming soon (preview available to CZcams channel members)
Is your book out yet? If not, when?
Very nice video, very important framework. Where can I find the book?🙏🙏🙏
The book is in the pipeline, not yet published!
gold
any advice for low back bulging discs?
Suggestions for a TFCC Tear Injury on both wrists? I've been incorporating rock climbing and extended hanging into my exercise regimen to strengthen the tendons in my wrist, it's helped reduce resting pain but wrist mobility is still an issue, I cannot do a push up i can only do a knuckle up as my hands can't fully extend and placing weight on my palm/wrist intersection causes pain still. Please let me know if you have any advice on movements I can incorporate, thank you.
How do I figure out whether what I'm trying is going to result in permanent damage? Hurt my wrist a while ago falling from a bike, and I really really want to get back to handbalancing. How pain-free must a movement be for me to allow myself to do it (repeatedly over a few days)?
Hey Bren, where can I find your book?
As one teacher once said - let's replace the known RICE with another 4 letters acronym protocol - MOVE (!!!!)
With your experience what can I do to fix sciatic nerve pain in my left leg from piriformis syndrome?
What I find interesting about your take, is that you mention the trend of "bulletproofing joints" etc. is a false one. This immediately made me think about Knees over Toes Guy, who has become immensely popular these past few months and claims to provide bulletproofing strategies, especially for the knees. But at the end you mention the concept of injury improvement as being the increasement of painfree ability of your body, which is also one of the fundamental pillars of the Knees over Toes Guy strategy. What is your take on his approach? He seems very genuine and knowledgeable, and often very much in line with a lot of movement concepts (e.g., exercises from Ido).
Yeah this is a really interesting question! Hope Bren sees it. I wonder if it's reasonable to say that the Knees Over Toes Guy sacrifices general movement exploration for immense strength, flexibility, and injury-free-ness for certain movements that he aims for.
There is a video coming very soon on this topic!
@@eveziroglu Very nice, looking forward to it!
I would like to know if you have any online course to learm more about your movement culture
There is now! if you join the CZcams channel as a member you can access the online coaching library!
Awesome video.. what is the name f ur book..
Thank you! The book isn't finished yet, and although I have a few working titles, for now let's say it's a surprise.
Hello,
I am dealing with different pains in my body for one year now. And I somehow ended with the same conclusion.
There is just one thing. I think it's essential to go see a doctor if you encounter consistent pain.
What is really mentally hard to deal with is when you don't know what you have and therefore how to deal with it.
Of course with enough experience I realize that we can heal thanks to movement. And doctors are most of the time not aware of that.
But in the end I think doctors and movers should work symbiotically because both have health in mind.
Hey Eudes,
You have a strong point here which I believe warrants a full reply. I actually (mostly) disagree with you.
I definitely agree that going to the doctor is an important thing that people should be doing regularly for a variety of reasons, most notably are treatable and preventable diseases. I also agree that doctors and movers/movement teachers should be working together, although for now let's ignore other movement teachers and personal trainers because the former I'm not sure how educated the average one is on pain science, and the latter I'm quite sure are mostly if not nearly entirely ignorant of pain science.
The problem is that for musculoskeletal stuff, doctors basically have only 3 tools: imaging, pain killers, and surgery (or referral to a surgeon). These tools don't really become useful unless we have a major injury, i.e a full tear of a muscle, tendon, or ligament. Meanwhile, many if not most doctors are guilty of what let's call the 'chair fallacy' that I mention in the video. They look at your MRI, tell you how fucked up you are, and then tell you that surgery is the only way to fix it (if at all). So what happens is a nocebo effect, and because the brain is so critical for pain, people come back from the doctor often in more pain and with far more limiting beliefs than if they had never gone. So one of their 3 main tools usually has a negative effect, and costs a lot of time and money. I will say however, that the overall education is improving, and the problem is definitely getting better.
You mention a great point, that it can be really hard mentally to deal with something when you don't know what it is. This is one of the most important things I go into in the book. Nassim Taleb has a saying here that fits perfectly here: 'we don't need to know the molecular composition of a soup in order to cook it'. Perhaps this will be a great topic for a future video :).
@@BrenVez You need someone who understands movement and understands that exceptions from the textbook happen often.
Where can we pre-order the book?
There is no pre-order available currently but I will mention it to Bren. He is still working on perfecting the book in addition to the online coaching library (through CZcams channel membership) and a number of free videos!
Where can I get the book? How is it called? Or haven't you finished it yet?
Ah Sorry my friend- I have over 60,000 words down but still isn't nearly finished yet. Hopefully I'll be able to get it out sometime over the next year. In the meantime, we'll be doing a part 2 to this soon, giving you guys an overview of how actually to go through the process yourselves for most cases :).
@@BrenVez 👍💪
Excellent information mate but the over editing which causes the screen to jump every few seconds hurts my eyes lol
Thanks Chris. I'm still new to making and editing videos like this but hopefully the editing will improve as we go :).
How the frack does one heal chronic golfers elbow
That's a tough one- again this video was all about what to do, not how to do it- so I'm planning a follow up to cover how to actually go about your rehab for any joint or injury. For Golfer's elbow some of the things I like are: hanging, gripping, pronation/supination/radial & ulnar deviation, forearm curls, a muscle up transition drill that would be hard to describe properly here, Rice Bucket work, and lastly but most importantly, slowly working back into pulling work such as rows, chin-ups, and pull-ups.
Unfortunately it's much more about HOW you do the exercises, rather than what exercises you do, but I hope this helps for now and again the book as well as the next video in this series will help you much more. Cheers and good luck!
Ok so basically psychosomatic illness then? As in predisposition to pain due to a previous stimulus proving to be destructive to the organism so a similar stimulus comes along later and the organism says, “no! Not this again!” Right?
I wouldn't say illness here- pain is not a disease- it's a useful and valuable signal, and not having pain is actually hallmark of a few dangerous diseases.
Using the definition of psychosomatic as "(of a physical illness or other condition) caused or aggravated by a mental factor such as internal conflict or stress." Yes, pain would be psychosomatic (aggravated by internal conflict or stress) but not really directly caused by it.
Hi. Where a buy your book?
Book is coming but not finished yet!
@@eveziroglu Very nice! Thanks.
Respectfully, I love the content or the information that this video provides, but the constant cutting of the footage made this video near impossible to pay attention to. I realise how difficult making even a basic production is, and that at heart you're a coach rather than a producer, but mid sentence cuts for almost every sentence in the entire video made it exceedingly difficult to enjoy otherwise very good and well worded information
Thanks James! I really appreciate your comment actually- I'm curious if you felt it was the video or audio part of the cuts that were jarring? Either way, this video was from 8 months ago, my editing skills have improved a lot since this video- I've learned ALOT of different methods that help me keep both the number of cuts and their 'jarring' quality much lower. I think if you check out any of our newer videos you won't be disappointed ;). Thanks a lot for the kind words and constructive criticism!
@@BrenVez no worries Bren, it does seem to have improved a fair bit in your more recent videos. It was mostly the combination of the video with audio where there appears to be obvious cuts with perhaps other takes or just to the video in general, which is obviously less smooth than a handful of longer takes.
You’ve taken the feedback really well, and I want to truly iterate that I do love the actual information contained in the videos themselves.
Pain science should only be used as an education tool. Not a treatment modality. Pain science has poor outcomes when used as a treatment approach. Patients want concrete solutions to problems. Education has it's place. I think you are commenting outside your scope of practice by instructing those that could have a serious injury and advising against further diagnostics, ie ACL rupture. Would you suggest those with such an injury not receive an MRI?
I am unsure how a movement specialist can dismiss a proper biomechanical assessment in order to ascertain the driver of the patients dysfunction. General movement/exercise is not superior to specific movement/exercise.
A proper assessment of movement, posture, joint and soft tissue mobility will assist in proper diagnosis. I am unsure why this nihilistic approach against a proper assessment has hit the forefront of rehabilitation.
Hi Arie. "Pain science has poor outcomes when used as a treatment approach"... What are you talking about? The reason biomechanical assessments are out is that the research has generally shown they're worthless (for many reasons), and can often cause a nocebo effect. Same for much of the research on imaging, which is also very costly, causes significant time delays, and is simply not accessible or affordable for a huge percent of the population.
In addition, what message are you sending to patients when you tell them that they "Need a proper biomechanics assessment in order to ascertain the driver of [their] dysfunction?" A statement which has no evidence to support it in the first place.
Yes, I am sure you will probably attempt to show a plethora of systematic reviews (secondary sources) to backup your claims as I can show you a number of studies to discount this new nihilistic approach towards rehabilitation. You still never answered my question about ACL rupture and further diagnostics. Plus this is outside your scope of practice.
It's funny that you call a new approach where people can feel confident about approaching their own bodies and pain without needing 'a proper biomechanical assessment of the driver of dysfunction' as nihilistic. If you have studies to back your claims, please cite them, and I'll be happy to read them.
Roentgenographic findings in the cervical spine in asymptomatic persons: a ten-year follow-up
D R Gore. Spine (Phila Pa 1976). 2001
You know what's even funnier? Your statement that pain science is something new. LOL
1977 biopsychosocial model (Engel)
1979 upper/lower crossed syndrome (Janda)
1996 research on motor control and the transverse abdominus (Hodges et al)
2002 Movement Impairment Syndrome (Sahrmann)
What's even funnier is that pain science is an improperly used tool for those that are unable to correctly assess the needs of the patient or in your case client.
"If you cannot treat your bread and butter patients (in your case "clients) then you need to think about changing careers." This is what Adriaan Louw said to me.
Here is just one bodypart. But it doesn't matter. You already have your confirmation bias. I see this in the clinic all the time taking over patients that are unable to reach their goals. Those that attempt to use the jedi mind trick "you do feel better (oblogatory wavingnof hand)" 🤣😅 while they pat themselves on the back for doing a good job while the patient still has the same problem they came in with.
Oh...and you are still outside your scope of practice.
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• Thijs, Y., Van Tiggelen, D., Willems, T., De Clercq, D., & Witvrouw, E. (2007). Relationship between hip strength and frontal plane posture of the knee during a forward lunge. British journal of sports medicine.
• Souza, R. B., & Powers, C. M. (2009). Predictors of hip internal rotation during running: an evaluation of hip strength and femoral structure in women with and without patellofemoral pain. The American journal of sports medicine, 37(3), 579-587.
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