6500 Hours of D&D VS 140 hours of DAGGERHEART
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- čas přidán 17. 04. 2024
- Let's compare D&D and Daggerheart based on my experience of running games for 6500 hours of D&D and approximately 140 hours of Daggerheart. This is my 2 cents on the matter.
www.daggerheart.com/play - Hry
I’m brand new to your content! I really like your perspective on both systems, very in-depth and thought out.
NGL, the silent intro made me think my headphones weren’t working 😂
Hahahaha! That was one of my first attempts to do an intro and I forgot to add the sound 😆 you will hear something in the newer videos. Thanks for the kind words
Interesting video. I'm loving hearing all the different perspectives
Thanks, hopefully you found some good insights.
I liked how DH has no initiative system because combat smoothly started and could smoothly transition out of combat since in dnd, you have to announce you are out of initiative or PCs outright kill all enemies
Love the initiative system. It runs so smoothly
An excellent compatison of the two systems.
I have Beta 1.3, and I am reading the rules. But I don't have a group willing to try it yet.
I have watched five different actual plays of the starting adventure, and each group of characters has been so different. I have learned a lot!
Thanks! It's such a beautifully designed game that I have 10 games happening throughout the week and the interactions with abilities and problem solving between players change so much and yet it all gives such a satisfying results to its conclusion.
I have been tweeking things of the game and adding homebrew elements to the system I will be posting a video about that this week. 😅
Really appreciated the thorough breakdown of the two systems, DG. :D As the GM for a streaming game (Darkeport), I've been trying to get a second table going with Daggerheart. Quite excited to see how a more narrative-driven system that - praise the gods! - has a built-in mechanic for exhaustion that doesn't feel excessively heavy-handed feels. (Yeah, that's kind of a pet peeve of mine with 5th ed.)
Anyway, thanks for putting this out there; plenty of gems sprinkling throughout.
- Angel
Oh right - and subbed! ;-)
Thanks! Worth a look into. It's the perfect stepping stone from dnd, familiar enough to feel the same but mechanically it is so much more satisfying.
Working on releasing my home brew rules next after 50 games of Dagger heart, to showcase what works etc.
Just my own iteration to make the game smoother for my tables.
@@dicegoblinnz4769 So cool! I'd be interested in seeing what you've cooked up - I haven't run a game yet, but I know I like some of what they did with 1.2 and also 1.3. I'll likely mix-'n'-match.
Thank you so much for this video. It's hard to find a youtuber who actually tried the game enough. I love how detailed your comparison is, and how you explain your opinion. I wish you will have many more subscribers!
Thank you so much! appreciate it! ❤
Great video man! Am loving playing this system with you :)
Thank you
Your insights are incredible, as usual.
Your too kind ❤
Great video! Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
14:33 you roll d20 for a chance at fear harvesting? sounds fair-enough to me.
😂 Brutal! But great idea, might be like a double disadvantage kind of deal. I might test that out this week 🤔
I know I'm late to the comments on this but I have a question and I'm having a real problem finding an answer. The idea, as I understood it, was to have a NARRATIVE-focused game. So is that IN THE RULES SYSTEM? So the personal development, super dramatic character moments are in the rules? Or are we leaning on the Game Masters for that background to foreground character work? Which is ok - but if so- then why create a whole new system?
The basics is that the system supports the game master during play without shifting in an out of combat to feel cinematic. Meaning you can in the middle of a fight to convince or intimidate the enemies and if you rolled a success with hope you succeed and they are scared and potentially runaway etc. or if you rolled a success with fear you succeed but then it gives you an opportunity to tack on something else that you may not have initially thought about like, they are scared but one of them sounds their horn to alert others or one of them gets scared and then the boss kills one of them immediately as an example to show how brutal he is and to scare his people back in line (this would not have happened if the success with fear didn't happen and just success, the enemy gets scared and one enemy dies and the rest are hesitant, boss is pissed).
Then we have failure with hope, they ignore the intimidation and just charge ahead or show the players how they are more scared of their boss than them. (still giving them info etc.) then if they rolled with fear they would have suffered 2 stress as well as failing, as the rest laugh at them for a pathetic attempt or the boss intimidates back with a brutal line, like "If i see a slight hesitation in your breath, i will make sure it will be your last" or something like that.
These options couldn't have happened if it was just a success or fail mechanic like most systems. Powered by the apocalypse introduced this and they took it to a new level. which i love.
The idea is that the narrative doesn't stop as soon as the swords are drawn and you say well technically its been 6 seconds so you cant say any more words, we have had many battles where the fight almost came to a halt as the players were conversing with the antagonists. and it felt natural and very impactful as the players learned new information and then decided if they still wanted to fight or not.
Mechanically it is all in the dice mechanics, the rest of the character sheet supports the mechanics, like i can deal damage to hp if it is an attack or i say an insult or a sleight and cause stress damage in a social encounter or a powerful force imposing their will on the scene and make them lose hope.
Ultimately its heroic fantasy. and with that it still feels awesome to do heroic things but the dice decides how the story goes.
Its a great system for future game masters to master as it will make them better story tellers. Not gonna say dnd makes bad game masters but it does lock them in this weird box of being mechanically focused and not focused on the overall narrative of the story, focusing on combat to combat to combat with sprinkles of roleplay in between.
@@dicegoblinnz4769 A very satisfying answer.
I think I disagree with the equal accessibility. Whilst from the pov of an experienced TTRPG player it might be true, someone brand new to it is absolutely going to have a much easier time hopping into daggerheart.
There are simply a LOT more things you gotta learn and keep track of, remembering it all especially in the heat of combat is definitely a lot more challenging in DnD
I have to disagree with you on that one, for brand new players Daggerheart is a way easier system.
If we compare core mechanics between the two systems, you have thousands of spells to look at (possibly dozens of spells if we use only the core rules and level 1 characters), 13 Different conditions, Skills, Races, Backgrounds, Ability Scores, Fall Damage, Saving throws, HP, Exhaustion, Ranges of attacks, Grid area of effect understandings, movement, Action, Bonus Action, Reaction, Critical success, Critical Failure, Initiative, Subclasses, Classes, Spellslots, Feats, Items, Armour Class, Short Rest, Long Rest, proficiency (skills and attacks)
For Daggerheart, you have Traits(Ability Scores), Armour, Stress, HP, Action Tracker, Hope, Scars, Fear(not a player problem but they still need to care about it), Evasion, Damage Thresholds, Downtime (Short Rest/Long Rest), Experience, Domains (1 Card per level), Class Features, subclasses, Race, Community, Items, Ranges of attacks, proficiency (attack damage dice), Reactions, Critical Success, Success/failure thresholds,
That is 28 things to keep track of (without going into details on the complexity on some of them like conditions) of D&D stuff VS. Daggerheart being 23 things to keep track off.
From a player point of view, you have "Cards" to help you keep track of things, which is a genius way for new players since its right there infront of them. The App is kinda meh to be honest on demiplane. D&D beyond is way better as an app to keep track of things and keeping things nice and easy to access. Demiplane is a little clunky especially on the phone.
From the DM point of view, its a little harder to run Daggerheart because there is less structure given to the GMs from what they can or cant do. since D&D is more mechanical its easier for DMs to go x,y,z is gonna happen, while in Daggerheart they might need to figure it out during the session.
Personally i think it will make better GMs if they learn to be more creative by figuring things out during the session rather than rely on stat blocks or hard rules. That is a preference.
I went down a rabbit hole sorry for the winded explanation. Hope it made sense...😅
It makes sense, but it only tackles one piece of the pie. There are also all of the different conditions as you said. All of the different actions you can take (actions, bonus actions, reactions, extra attacks). For a Daggerheart player it is simply “I do the thing I wanna do rn”. Movement distances, attack distances and all having a wide range that requires constant measuring instead of the simplified zones and everyone having the same movement distance. What you can “do” with an action. Help, improvise, dodge, grapple, shove, dash, disengage, cast a spell, hide, ready (ready can get very iffy to explain to newcomers), search, use object…
Daggerheart, you do a thing that uses an “action roll” as your action. Simple and straightforward. The only things you really have to learn is hide, moving farther with an agility roll, and bringing able to help other players. Then you’re set.
There’s also keeping track of concentrations. Keeping track of all your passives and remembering that the rogue should actually auto-see everything because he has a passive 27 perception. The fact that all spells can fit on a card whereas some spells in DnD could take a player a good 2 minutes to read through if they forgot in the heat of action.
I can keep it going, but here’s the point: I have actually SEEN and played with brand new players to ttrpgs on both systems. The contrast is STARK.
@toa695 interesting you got that experience I played it with 10 new groups and the learning curve for new players was almost similar to dnd if not easier. The way I do it is don't worry about the rules tell me what you wanna do and I tell you what to roll. And they learn through play. You might be right if they are just thrown at the system.
Valuable insight. And your right there was alot more I didn't mention but I was focusing on "core" mechanics to worry about. 😅
@@dicegoblinnz4769 I think it’s probably because I play with some very casual players that just want to hop in and for a few hours every now and then, which is totally fine of course, but I don’t think DnD supports that level of investment as well as daggerheart. Daggerheart kinda feels more like a board game you could pull out at any party whist DnD feels more like a commitment I feel.
@@toa695 Never thought about daggerheart feeling like a boardgame, with the cards etc. i can see why you would think so. If your interested in a casual game, look into Tiny Dungeons for a High fantasy type feel or any of the Tiny series. Alternatively look into Fiasco its free online and has a ton of "modules" fun for a game night
How does not having initiative make players pay attention and pre-plan their actions while others are taking their turns? From your description that "aggressive" players are going to be going all the time and more "timid" players are almost never going to do anything. Unless you're going to keep track and make sure that everyone gets an equal number of turns in which case you're back to using an initiative system.
That's a fair assumption , but reasonable players who are considerate of others will always be mindful of the other players and give them turns, etc.
Also, there is an action token resource that each player has, each will have 2 action tokens and can only perform those 2 actions and must wait until the rest have performed thiers. This helps players who are less likely to be acting all the time to shine the spotlight on them.
If people are not considerate (which I have some players who weren't in some of my groups) I had to step in as a GM and say right you had two turns let someone else go. We need to remember we are playing a collaborative story telling game. And all on the table need to collaborate to tell a great story. So it is as much as the players who need to be mindful as the GM to be mindful.
On my tables we have not suffered from this problem and everyone had a fair share of taking actions.
the d12 system of daggerheart is the main reason i dont even want to play it... fear and hope are dumb and makes the game feels... kinda... dumb...
i am not D&D biased, i played other systems and actually prefer a unknown small system i play with my friends instead... but no D20... thats a no go... just to make it feel different...
I am curious? what makes you think its so dumb? I think it borrows from alot of great systems out there like powered by the apocalypse where they use 2d6 for the bell curve of probability. Its the most ideal system for a multi decision framework where you can have 4 distinct outcomes instead of only 2 (Success and fail). You have 4 categories of success which makes story telling alot more dynamic and not just do you succeed or fail etc. Failing with fear is alot worse than failing with hope and succeeding with fear is still a success but with a consequence. There is depth there with just the core mechanic of the game. most smaller systems borrow from this concept or simplify it even more but ultimately its supposed to help tell a story.
i am curious as to what is boring about it.