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File Basics: How to select and use files for metalworking
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- čas přidán 29. 07. 2013
- A file is one of the most useful tools you can have in a workshop, but they're rarely fully understood and appreciated in our modern mechanized age.
Files have been around for over three thousand years, and before machine tools became available they were one of the primary means of making precision objects!
In this video I show the basic types of files, the differences between them, and how to use them.
Here is a nice set of files to get started with: amzn.to/1xAbPvI
Make sure to get a file card for cleaning your files: amzn.to/1sXoVnv
I also highly recommend a sturdy vise when using files: amzn.to/1wiFcEp
-Aaron
2020 and I'm here consulting your videos to start bladesmithing. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, know that you've helped a lot of people achieve meaningful things in their lives!
Awesome mate! Really glad to be able to help!
Cool same
I learned a couple things here at the ripe old age of 67. Thank you. Nice job. Good presentation.
Thanks Larry! Great to hear!
Life is all about learning.............
Mr X I watched it again. This guy is a good teacher. No glam ...gets to the point...NO PUN INTENDED...Nice to see it again and review. I am 71 now.
@@GoughCustom 4 years later and I, too, learned stuff I should already have known, also 67. Cheers, mate!
Re: using a paintbrush to clean the file, if you trim the bristles very short, it stiffens them considerably. Naturally, the brush is useless for anything else after that, so you'd want to do this with a brush that would be discarded or a cheap one, but it's surprising how frequently you'll find uses for it. I find myself reaching for mine often.
Cymerian Designs That's a good suggestion!
I bought a nail brush for this purpose, it has several rows of short bristles.
Paintbrush?? Brass brush
38 years since High School metal shop and a great refresher!
Glad to hear Jimmy!
Yesterday I saw your tip with the chalk and today I tried it. Holy moley, I couldn´t believe the difference! It´s like I have a new file. Thanks a lot! Only tiny little scratches left, wich are a lot easier to fix than before. It´s fantastic you do those videos, helped me in many ways. Greetings from Germany
+Stefan Krüger Hey Stefan! Very glad the video was helpful mate!
+Sangam Swadik Glad to hear mate!
Hey Aaron loving the vids mate. During my apprenticeship(fitter and turner) I got stuck in the deburring section for 3 months, hated it!
Another method to free up any stubborn pits is to make a scraper that conforms exactly to the profile of the teeth of the file, aluminium and brass work the best. Simply take some stock about 3/4 of an inch wide and rub in the same direction as the teeth it will form itself to the shape of the peaks and valleys, works a treat at cleaning out your file heaps better than the file card.
Thanks for watching mate! Good tip about the brass/aluminum file cleaner! I occasionally use round bar offcuts for exactly the purpose you describe if there are stubborn chips in there...
All of what i need is on your video.. thanks a lot for ur tutorials sir..
You're very welcome!
Nice! People are often amazed that you can make beautiful refined things with only hand-tools!
No wasted time, thank you so much for the great video
Cheers mate!
You should have your own show. Very nicely done thanks.
I put one together, didn't take long to do. Works great. Thanks for posting this, lot of us out there that can't devote the cash for expensive power equipment to do the job.
Very glad the video was helpful mate!
This Guy is nothing but a pro!Thanks for the tips. Great Stuff.
Thanks Jim! hopefully the video was helpful!
Yes! I just finished shooting the video for showing the filing jig yesterday. Once it's edited I will be uploading it, should be up soon.
No worries mate! Thanks for watching!
Yes, I used a double-cut bastard file when filing the bevels on the jig.
Thanks man! Been waitimg for a video like this for a while. I wanna start using hand file, this was very helpful.
At last a video showing how to use a file card, thank you
No worries mate!
Thanks mate! Glad you found them useful! The inch to metric stuff is annoying at first, but you get used to it!
I too learned a few things here and I’ve been a union carpenter for past 31 years. Great job and thanks for sharing!
No worries at all mate!
For people just getting started in anything knife related I generally recommend O1, purely because you can make a decent knife out of it and it's easy to get. Other steels may give better results with simple equipment but they're not easy to find.
Nice vídeo man! Thanks for share
No worries mate!
I love how clean your work is. You make such great knives
Thank you very much!
I assume you mean the blue ones... They came from Reid Supply, they're Grobet brand. They're available separately and they're not expensive. I'm a big fan of them, they hold the tang of the file very firmly and they're quite comfortable!
Glad you've liked the videos so far!
Thanks dude. Handy to know. An Aussie in Canada? I checked out your knives...awesome.
Thanks bud! Yeah Aussie living in Canada since '06!
Thanks for the watch, very informative. One thing to note. I recently learnt that the correct name for a triangular file is actually three square. Live and learn
No worries at all mate! TIL as well!
I feel like i know a lot about the tools i am using until i watch you. Thank you and keep making videos like this!
Thank you so much! I am not a metal worker by any means but i love making custom cars. This info helped a lot, I almost bought the wrong set.
Glad the video was helpful Chris!
Thanks for the video....It's Good Knowledge to have about tools that are used in the trades. Alot of people don't know or even care about this kinda thing. But alot of us Do!!!
Short and efficient education. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Simple and clear. I enjoyed this lesson very informative.
Thanks Aaron.
Thanks, glad you liked it!
For preventing rust I use Vapour Corrosion Inhibitors in my tool-chest, basically little boxes that emit a protective vapour that coats the files. I do this because I prefer or my tools not to be oily all the time.
The other option is just to coat them with a light oil before putting them away WD-40 or Starret M-1 would both likely work just fine!
what file do i get to file down the side of a thick flat bar? i need to file down the side from 2 inch width down to 3 lines before reaching the 2 inch mark? so i think it 13__16th or 7/9 like i side 3 line before reaching the 2 inch mark i wish home depot could gran it down for me or cut a piece off the side i do not have any grinding tools of cutting tools just the wood saw cutting tool i do not have a vice also will have to make some like vice grips of some
A little tip I learned was to use a piece of brass to help remove stuborn clogs in files, the brass is soft enough not to hurt the file. It works really well, hope this helps someone! cheers
+Justin Thoma Hey Justin! Yes that's a good tip! I have used that in the past very successfully!
Thank you for a clear, concise video. You answered a lot of questions for this gal!
Glad to hear Peggy!!
What would be your recommendation for a first file for general purpose use on metal. In other words, if you could have only one, what would you suggest?
Hey mate,
I recommend watching the other videos on my channel first. I have videos that will cover 90% or more of what you need to know. If you still have questions after that I'll be happy to help!
I'm making a box from Plexiglass. Going to make box or finger joints to join the box together, but I'm doing it with a table saw, and hand files. Was wondering if you knew of a type of files that were square and about 5mm in width.
I enjoy using a file. it seems like I have better control than I do when using a grinder or sander and the surface seems much easier to keep true. Thank you for the video, makes me want to go to the hardware store and shop for more files. I also enjoyed the filing jig video.
Thanks mate! Glad you liked the video
Hi, great video, thanks.
I have a few questions if I may. Firstly, does the direction or the ridge matter? I have a large, coarse flat file but the ridges are curves, not straight lines. Is this a specific type of file?
Also, I assume that a file would remain sharp due to the friction with the metal, but how, if ever, would I sharpen a file which I use for wood?
Finally, for wood work, would a file be better or worse than sander? Or is it just a case of swapping the personal touch of the file for the speed of a sander?
Thanks again, Dave.
The large flat file with the curved ridges sounds either like a wood rasp or a type of file called a 'float' which is designed for working with soft metals like lead. They were commonly used for auto-body work back in the day when lead was used as a body filler.
Files and rasps all go dull with use, as far as I know there's no way to sharpen them.
Ahh well that makes sense. I got them from a relative who was a mechanic in his youth so you are probably right. He did have many other hobbies though including wood and metal work and so I wasn't sure which it would be for.
Thanks for the reply.
The only reason to use a bench or belt grinder over a file is really that it's quicker. I try to show hand-tools in my videos so that other people will want to have a go at the stuff I'm showing, if I only showed power tools then everyone would assume they need big, fancy, expensive power tools to do the work...
I use power tools for my personal stuff as well, but for small things it's often easier/faster just to grab a file or a hacksaw.
Good question!
thanks for the video, I've just made your filing jig a week ago and have been working on one of my knives to make a nice bevel, my only problem is that the file i'm using is a single cut. it leaves bad gauges in the knife no matter how much I clean it and towards the end of making a bevel produces a loud irritating squeek. I've been looking to buy a new one and thinking of getting a double cut bastard for the job. is that what you use for your bevels? if not, what would you recommend, and was wondering what brand of double cut files do you buy? thanks alot :)
Normally single cut is what leaves mirror like finish doublce cuts tends to have very tiny gouges which is okay since the average height of the surface is more important.
Always something to learn on Aaron’s channel!
🇬🇧👍🇦🇺
Glad you think so mate!
@@GoughCustom
Making my 1st knife, so always check in!
Aaron, you're a natural born teacher.
Thanks very much mate! Funnily enough I don't think I'm a terribly great teacher in person, I find it much easier in the videos...
Anyway you're great. Thanks again.
Are there any type of files mounted in a jig where it would help file one edge square with another?
How long should your files last you? what are your opinions about how to prevent rust on files? do you prefer specific brands to others? Great video.
If you want other fancy steels then your options are mainly online stores, here's a list of the ones I use and recommend:
Jantz Supply: jantzsupply . com
New Jersey Steel Baron: newjerseysteelbaron . com
Canadian knifemaker supply: knifemaker . ca
Hope that helps mate!
Você sabe me dizer qual a dureza e qual aço a nikelsom usa nas suas limas retas de 8 polegadas e de 10 polegadas ?
why the heck are you not on the History channel? This channel and the wisdom you share is amazing, (thank you for sharing that with us by the way). It's better than watching the Discovery Channel.
Hello Arron, nice vid. Could you please recommend an inductry shop grade file set that includes everything you just mentioned. Please no generic made in Brazil tools...
how do you stop wire from getting bent? Meaning do you have special container for the wire brush or is it hanging someone where it's not bumping into other things?
+pgb twoofive The wire is very, very stiff, no need to worry about it getting bent!
Hey mate! I'm glad my editing is ok, that's one of the areas that I'm newest to in all this!
Well it just so happens that if you're in Ontario you have a number of choices. If you want tool steel (O1, A2) then the best place I've found so far is KBC tools. You can order online or go to one of their stores. I order online, they ship the stuff from the US, but there's no customs fees or anything. They ship very quickly too! If I order in the morning I often get the stuff the next day.
I never new about file cards. Thanks for the great video
Too nice explanation I can watch up lessons whole day tnx a lot bro
+shaik karimulla no worries mate!
nice video! Have you noticed excessive tool wear when filing g10? I've been told that it is very rough on steel tools.
I haven't noticed too much wear, but I generally don't use the files on G10 a huge amount, mainly just to cut the finger grooves...
G10 can be very rough on tools. I once saw it throwing sparks off a bandsaw blade! I tend to use abrasive belts to shape as they seem to be the things that last the longest...
hi gough i have a question if the tolerence of a workpiece is 0.02 mm how can you achieve it my thought was use bastard to get the exess material off and then smooth to get as close to the tolerance as possable ? and great video btw
Hallo.
You should take a big file fore the Material more then (I would say )0.8 mm about your desired surface then take a small(er) file like a 250 mm long in Hieb 3 (who do you call the numbering of files?).
If you are close then 0,1mm you change to even finer file und for the really smooth surface you have to use a scraper.
The use of a scraper (there are different forms) is a real art and should be teached from on how now how to use it.
Big files are hard to come bi, because they were not longer produced.
I mine the arm files, called so, because they are in the size of an underarm ore longer;
60-70cm, an about 2-6Kg in weight, ore even heavier.
The worked fast like an angel grinder, but without sparks and that noise.
Great tips on choosing and using files! This helped me a lot.
Excellent, good to hear mate!
Excellent explanation, thanks!
Question: if single-cut files leave a smoother surface finish, then why is the large blue-handled 'smooth' file a double-cut file?
I assume it's mainly used for leaving a smooth surface finish, but wouldn't a single-cut file be better for that purpose?
Very helpful video! To cut a soft, unremovable, corroded metal spud stuck in a 2"-tub drain, should I use a cut-triangle or cut-round file? Thank you
Can't say I know what to do regarding your situation without seeing the problem myself, hope you get it worked out!
What's the ebst way to smooth the edges of a gutter cut with an angle grinder? i usually deburr and straighten the cut with a double cut bastard file and follow it up with a single cut smooth file and round the edge a little bit. But because of corners in my workpiece i make straight pushing movements instead of diagonal movements, am i doing it right?
+FoodOnCrack Sorry mate, but I honestly don't know! Haven't had to do that operation you're describing before.
I am wondering about draw filing. Like you, I have it in my muscle memory to always apply pressure on the push stroke, and lifting the file on the return stroke. However I've recently was looking for more information on draw filing, and both Simonds (Facts on Files) and Nicholson (Guide to Files and Filing) say that draw filing is done both push and pull. I'm trying to understand why are they saying that...
I think it would just be too time consuming to only do it one way, plus with draw filing you are trying to make a flat surface and that is really hard if you're constantly taking it off the work and then putting it back in a new spot... Pushing and pulling won't hurt the file, especially if the push stroke has less downward force...
@@GoughCustom So perhaps light pressure when drawing the file towards you, and just maintaining contact (no pressure) when returning the file to the position. I looked up some old books on archive.org which mentioned something like this. It was also mentioned that for best control it's best to have a file without a handle, the direction the file's tang is pointing is important. I got some interesting and useful answers on this topic on the practical machinist forum, my topic: www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/correct-technique-draw-filing-365989/
Very helpful for rookies like me. More videos please. Thanks! 😄
Glad it was helpful mate!
Thanks! Definitely agree with that.
Hi, Could you tell me the advantage of flat files compared to half round?
It seems the half round is more versatile being able to do both flat and round surfaces, so why bother with a flat file?
Thanks!
Either one should work in most applications! Flat file is nice if you want cut file an inside corner as it will cut square on the corner.
Thanks dude you really helped me in my school project thanks to you I got an A+ and a Reword for the best working student from my year in the "creative crafts" (Kind of wood/metal making stuff) so thanks once again :)
Butterfly Project done Awesome mate, nice work!
Thanks Lee! Glad you liked it!
I am currently working my practicals. Thank you sir
No worries, best of luck!
ey, no problems ;) im a tools salesman and know aloot about them but it's fun and good learning anyway, im glad that they are more people then me that are "nuts" enought to clean and care of their tools instead of use and throw.. :)
Good information - thanks!
You're welcome Jeff!
I'm glad it was of interest to you!
Great video! Extremely helpful and well presented! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
I am learning how to be a metall technician right now and I have to make really flat and accurate edges on my workpiece , somehow it always gets curved or has a higher side, any ideas how to improve my technique? Im very new to all this stuff so I would be thankfull for tips
Sorry mate, precision work is not really something I've ever tried or been trained in...
I know you probably use a double cut for the jig, but what file would you suggest to use for Draw filing after the bevel is made?
Thomas Starkey I'll try to answer, hopes that it is ok:-) If you just want to "polish" to perfect finish, use a "fine single cut file" it won't nearly remove anything but the finish it makes is the best you can get with files. Else you have to use polishing wheel and a polishing compound. Hope that it helps:-)
I subscribed! Thank you for taking the time to reach us the basics of time work! I am an old school and skills guy. Forge blades in the past and filed by hand to finish. I think your jigs and ideas are what I have looking for! I just don't enjoy using a grinder in any fashion. Nice video, well done, thanks again!
Glad the videos have been helpful Michael! Thanks for the kind words!
Nice job. Thanks for the vid! Would be good to know what determines quality of files other than price.
Hey Paul! It's a bit of a hard question to answer as I'm sure there are good files that are inexpensive and bad files that are expensive! Ultimately it's a question of steel, hardness and the geometry of the teeth, but these are very hard things to evaluate without actually using the files and seeing how well they cut and how long they last... I would recommend simply buying a good brand that is made in the USA or Europe and has a good reputation... I like Grobet brand files personally!
Excellent info. Thanks!
What metal is used to manufacture files? I've breezed thru questions here and done a google search, but have yet to find an answer.
Usually it's a low carbon steel that is 'carburized' to form a high carbon outer layer that can then be heat-treated!
Cool to run across this file video, then realize it's by Aaron Gough of whom I have an amazing Gough Custom knife! 👍
Hope it was helpful David!
Definitely! I learned I need a half-round fine file. Also, your knife is superb! Sincere Best and Appreciation! Dave
Great tips. Learned so much from your video. Thanks so much!
No worries mate, glad it was helpful!
Thanks for posting. This video is very informative. I need to file about a millimeter off one end of an aluminum bike part. My problem is that the part is a cylinder in shape and the ends are flared, hence I cannot see any way to secure it in a vise. Is it possible to keep the file stationary and scrape the part across it? Any tips you might have for that situation would be really helpful. Thanks.
+politicat313 Would just holding it in a vice squash it? Normally round parts can be held without too much problem...
Hmm. I was worried that since the ends were flared there wouldn't be enough surface area in contact with the vise to hold it steady. However, I haven't actually tried it to see if that is true. I will try! Thanks. :)
Can a file be used to file towards you? So from top of file to the handle with each pass, or are the teeth made to only use it from tip to handle?
The teeth are only made to cut on the push stroke unfortunately. There are some specialty files that cut on the pull stroke but they're very rare!
Cool video. I've been looking for all this information. thank you for your time.
+Nitin Bhosale No worries at all mate!
Mate, how does one get into doing this stuff correctly? I mean, anyone can knock up a flimsy knife in the back shed but not everyone can make it an art like yourself. I live in an area (south east queensland) where everything is done for you, and there's no real need to make stuff with your hands. I love knives and would love to learn more. Is there any tips on who to go to? Where to go? Here on bribie island theres a woodies club that has older gentlemen who work with wood but not metals, however, could that be a step in the right direction.
Look forward to any feedback you supply and cheers for making great content.
With the internet these days there's not too much need to go anywhere to learn, spend a bunch of time on CZcams and on BladeForums just watching and reading everything you can and you'll go a long way! Even just watching all my videos should give you a very good idea of all the different steps involved!
If you get some basic hand tools (hacksaw, hammer, files, a rasp, sandpaper, etc..) and one or two power tools (most useful one is a small drill press) then you can get started very quickly. Get some O1 tool steel and then make a knife!
If you try to think about the entire 'big picture' all at once you'll stall out and get scared off because it's too much to absorb. If you take it one step at a time and just get cracking you'll make a lot of progress before you even realize it!
Gough Custom Thanks mate, I appreciate your reply.
I've been doing exactly what you said with watching a lot of videos and doing a lot of reading on the subject. I'm using the links you've provided on your "making a knife with basic tools" video to buy what I need.
Again, Thank you so much for these videos and for the reply.
Good job, very helpful information, just what I needed, thanks.
No worries Clint!
Hey Aaron,
quick comment. I have read in multiple places that using oil on a file is a big no-no, and actually hinders the file's ability to cut the material. Files require friction for the teeth to dig and using oil actually will seem to make your file glide on the material and not cut it.
Love you videos and help sir. Hope I have no stepped on any proverbial toes.
No toes to step on here! I always like new info!
I have used oil on files quite a bit and haven't had any issues with it. I only use a VERY light coating though, not enough to coat the workpiece, I mainly want the oil in between the teeth of the file so that 'pins' (small pieces of metal) do not get stuck there,
I have found that without oil you can get pins of steel or aluminum permanently stuck in between the teeth on the file which makes the file not cut as well.
I can imagine using lots of oil for the purpose of aiding the cutting action could have the unintended consequences that you detail, although I will admit I have actually never tried it!
-Aaron
Gough Custom Cool stuff. I haven't had to use anything on my files yet, but i am just starting my third knife. I have been an avid manufacturer of all sorts of hand made things in my life, but knives are new to me. I like the idea of using chalk to get the filings to fall out of the teeth.
The files I use are a 12" course Pferd, which has huge teeth, about 3/32 deep, and a 12" double cut nicholson, which moves material well, but that Pferd is a real machine when it comes to stock removal. The teeth are so big that the "pins," as you call them, almost never get stuck.
Aluminum is a whole different story. the soft stuff you get from home depot just seems to gum up a file in a couple strokes.
thanks again
Michael Derstine That big file sounds like fun! Can't say I've ever seen one like that...
Nice vid! Hello from a distant relative across the pond!
Cheers Steve!
So for servicing a knife, axe ,shovel etc on the field 2nd cut file would do well?
Shovel and axe can be sharpened with a 2nd cut file, though even an axe will still cut better if sharpened with a stone instead. You won't have any luck sharpening a knife with a file usually as knife blades are too hard.
Hello, do you think it would be possible to clean a file using a magnet? to collect all the metal pins
It's worth trying!
@Gough Custom, does it make any difference when using a file if your left handed because of the angle of the cut on the file?
Good question! I think it should be fine, but I actually don't know as I've never used one left handed!
Great video, thanks:-) The name "file card" is from the same looking "brush" that are used to card wool (to clean wool), You have a great knowledge and are good at explaining the subject. maybe there is a miner unimportant error, depending on who you ask. But still great video:-)
+Fried Mule thanks mate!
Which file do you normally use when filling the bevel with your DIY Jig?
The best file for that is a 12" double cut bastard file
@@GoughCustom Thank you! Your videos are inspiring!
This is a great video. Thank you for making it!
Nicholson are like the best files ever my grandpa has a crap ton of them and are AWESOME!
Nice, glad that you like them! The old ones in particular are good!
Gough Custom You sound like you could be Australian like myself. Could you tell me where best I can find second cut flat files to buy please.
Hey mate! I am an Aussie, but currently living in Canada so I'm not sure where best hardware place in Aus is these days... Probably Bunnings still though lol 🤣
Very Educational! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
i just started woodworking. i have always loved doing something by. hand. i am going to clean my filed.and now i know what to pick up at yard sales. ps have you ever had luck sharpening japanese hand saws. i bought one.at harbor 2 sizes at harbor freight. you could probably get them elseware. i love them i use them to cut to within a 32nd of inch. shame to say some of my hand tools are rusty. i am refurbishing a little at a time. i used vineger and water to take away rust.
+James Ready Sounds like a good hobby mate!
hey would you tell me how to remove rust with vinegar and water??
I haven't made a knife from a file yet, it's on my todo list though!
Can you draw file by pulling? Or does that dull the teeth like pulling back during normal file operation?
It depends on which way the file is facing... The teeth on the file only cut on the push stroke, and if you look at the file you will see the teeth are angled diagonally in one direction. What this means is that you can draw file either by pushing or pulling depending on which way you have the handle. If the handle is in your right hand you will draw file by pushing, if it's in your left hand you will draw file by pulling. Generally you want to be pulling when draw filing as it's a more stable and smooth movement!
@@GoughCustom ok thanks for getting back to me. It’s making more sense now that you’ve explained it. However what I was referring to more was if you can push and pull in consecutive strikes. Going by what you’re saying this would only be possible if using a double cut file? Or would that risk dulling on the opposite stroke as well?
By the way I know everything I know about files from watching your video, much appreciated.
@@freestyla101 Gotcha, no you should only go one way otherwise you will risk dulling the file as you mention. Glad you liked the video!
Need to do a size comparison. How long are the three blue handle ones?
The blue handle ones are about 12" not including the handle
I think you left out the ultimate file technique. Patience. It ain't a power tool. You need to let the tool do its work. More, better placed passes is better than harder, roughly positioned passes. Oh I don't have that much time you say? Doing it right once saves more time than screwing it up and having to rework it.
+gus bisbal Yep, that's a very good point!
Yrp work smart not hard and careless
Glad you found it helpful!
I would prefer to keep talking in the comments, that way other people can benefit from your questions!
I knew I could find info on files within....Really helpfull info on how to choose the proper tools...Thanks a lot man...BTW, do you design you knifes from scratch right??I mean no pattern downloads and stuff....If so, can you share them???Or is it too much to ask????
Sorry mate, I don't share the design of my knives because I make part of my living from selling them. You're welcome to copy the design from photos, provided the knife will not be sold.
-Aaron
Gough Custom Sure do man....Im planning ond doin one for my own use...If I can pull it out!!!!Thanks nonetheless for the quick answer!!!
Gough Custom
Honestly I'm surprised you share as much about knife making as you do (being as you sell them). I do greatly appreciate all the lessons. So many people won't let any of us laymen in on the secrets (like heat treatment schedules and such). Hopefully it has only earned you more sales, if nothing more than from earned respect from the community. Cheers Aaron!
Max well My opinion is that being open and truthful will earn me more customers than just saying 'my heat-treatment is awesome', instead I show all the steps I went through to work out my heat-treatment, thereby showing what it's capable of. It's also much more gratifying for me to be able to share what I know!
Thanks Max!