What is the Difference Between Files, Floats, Rasps and More
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- The world of files, rasps, floats, rifflers and others can be very confusing. today I want to look at files, rasps, floats, rifflers and more to see what are the uses and what are the differences. Also, where can you buy files, rasps, floats, rifflers and others?
Files: amzn.to/39Bp1LX
Machine Stitched Rasps: lddy.no/tui7
Hand-stitched Rasps: lddy.no/tui8
4 In Hand: amzn.to/39v3KmR
Curved Tooth Files: lddy.no/rfgv
Floats: www.lie-nielsen.com/nodes/409...
Saw File set: www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/...
Rifflers: lddy.no/tuia
Shinto File: lddy.no/tuib
File Card: amzn.to/3ssXUen
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It's crazy watching some of these videos as a machinist trying to get into hand tool woodworking. I can't help but look at some of these super expensive specialty tools and think to myself- "well heck, I could just make one of those on my lunch break."
So true. There's a reason the blacksmith has considered the heart of the town.
I'm sure the lunch break file will work wonderfully.
But whats your hourly rate worth?
Every time I use a file I end up thinking, "Is it dull, or do I just not know what a sharp file feels like". I've never bought a file new, so I have no real reference.
That is a constant problem for a lot of people.
As a jeweler, I can tell you I have never used a riffler for woodwork or ornamental steel. However, for jewelery work, the little needle rifflers are fantastic! When you need one, nothing else will do. A triangular scraper tool is also the best tool for cleaning up solder overruns correctly without gouging the metal surface irregularly. Most people these days probably use burs in a flex shaft or rotary tool (and you can tell when they do!), but some of us appreciate the Zen of using genuine hand tools. Great video!
Right on. I use to do jewelry work.ade my wife's rings and a few for others. It was a fun hobby. But I had to sell my bench. Might have to make another one.
I learned about rifflers when I tried my hand at flute making. learned a lot doing that mostly that I am nerve/tone death.
I think I learned the same lessons at one time lol got to love great teachers
I've been fascinated by files lately. One of my favorite tools is a satin chrome plated file. I don't even know what the advantage is, but it's a joy to look at and to use.
Lee Valley carries some hand stitched rasps for $30-40. They probably don't have the fine craftsmanship of a $80+ rasp, but it's worth a try.
Look Auriou rasps if you like well made tool.
Thank you so much for "blurring through this" in the way that you did...what an excellent overview! Your depth and breadth of knowledge is obvious, which makes it even more impressive that you're able to summarize it so succinctly.
I found some good deals on files and rasps at pawn shops as well. The upside is you can pick through them and buy just the ones you want, the down side is you have to pick through them all to find the good.
You can use rifflers for wood sculpture, but they also used them for marble in the old country. Love the floats and the curved-tooth file, and as always the jokes.
That was a great break down of the subject. Thank you.
I’m truly sorry I didn’t catch this video a year ago as it would’ve saved me wasted money. Great video and love your channel!
Btw, plz don’t throw away files😢🙏🏻 Knife makers could repurpose a great many files and other hobbyists could use them too. Bushcrafters for instance use them for fire starting kits
James,
You have done a wonderful "Intro" video covering the major categories of hand mills (files, rasps, floats, and riflers) for woodworking. Yours is one of the most comprehensive, "correct", and concise covering of the topic I have seen in over 40 years of joinery. It is always a pleasure to watch your videos, and to occasionally re-watch you older one to see how much you have grown as a craftsman.
A good followup might be a slightly more detailed look into each category separately. For example, regarding files, you could speak the conventions of: naming (mill vs bastard vs burnisher), sizing (number vs length), cross section (flat, round, square, taper, etc.) and the respective general uses, and finally care & maintenance. As I rarely use the other categories myself, I am not in a position to make suggestions about their follow-ups.
One suggestion I might make is to try and slow your speaking down just a touch. Sometimes when you get going, I feel like I'm being dragged a ski boat that suddenly turned on a turbo charger. Quickness is needed, but so is clarity. In the Army we had a saying about working with speed: "Slow is smooth, smooth is accurate, accurate if fast." That is, if you slow down slightly so that your presentation, especially your speech, is smoother, you will find you can maintain your excitement while both significantly improving your clarity, and decisively reducing the feeling of being rushed. I have also noticed that when I was forced to go through the same process, I was for more relaxed personally, and that showed to my audience as both stronger confidence and humble empathy.
All that said, You are a remarkable, vibrant, enthusiastic, and humble member of the craft. I am deeply honored to know you and to call you friend.
Thanks for the feedback. Always like hearing other ideas.
His speech is clear and concise. This video was excellent.
Thank You for showing your rifflers, I have seen them at estate sales, and figured they were for very intricate work, but had no idea what they were called...
Wow, James, this video could not have been more timely for me! Big time thank you!
Fyi, I recently picked up a load of good quality files and rasps (Nicholson, etc) for just a buck or two a piece at a local swapmeet. Thanks to your video, now I know exactly what I scored! Thanks again.
Tks again. Another very informative video. I’m just glad I’m not very organized or I’d make a list of all the additional tools I need.
I don’t own a single file, but understood everything you said. Great video 👍
Really great video very informative and helpful. I learned an awful lot from your video. Thanks ver much.
Excellent video. Really useful information. Keep up the good work.
Great info! loved the video!
This was very useful, James. Grandpa's toolbox had lots of files and rasp's. I found out from my oldest sister that he sharpened lawn mower blades and saws which explains the saw files in duplicate and triplicate.
Great Summary! Thanks!
Auriou makes hand stitched rasp. They warn against using steel brush for cleaning.
They advise normal brush because it is more friendly for teeth.
Thank you very much for this video! It doesn’t get more basic and important, than explaining what the words mean. I needed this. Thank you!
glad to help!
I've seen Stavros Gakos using that longer float I thought he'd made it himself. That was really interesting James, thanks. Regards Jim UK.
Great video! I have one the Narex hand stitched rasps and it's very nice to use. Card file is a must however, I've been looking for one with a short bristle brush on the other side like I used in high school.
Fantastic video, James! Thanks a lot! 😃
I still need to get files and rasps... But I get there, eventually. 😊
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
So much info. Nicely condensed.
I’m glad you said a cheap 4 in the hand would do just fine, I bought mine for $4.95 at that place that likes to be a penny less than everyone else. Bought to shape my hock plane kit and it worked great finished it with some finer files but for hogging off all the edges and getting it to fit my hand the way I wanted 4 in the hand was the perfect tool for the job. Looking forward to this live, kept having questions pop up in my head so I know I’ll have one or teo
That was a very informative video with a lot of sensible advice. I’ve come across another sort of rasp from Japan called an Iwasaki rasp. I saw it on the Samurai Carpenter channel and gave it a try. They’re machine cut ridges across the blade but they cut beautifully both in the half round and flat. Unusually the half round is single sided so only the convex face has teeth and the flat has safe edges. They come in at about £20 in UK (30USD more or less) and so they’re great value as well as being nice to use.
Thank you for this video, this is the best description/ comparison online
Thanks.
Love what you said about "sharpening" a file. All three ways to actually sharpen a file require some basic Blacksmith skills and tools and amount to remanufacturing the file - which reduces the material in the file, and future longevity with it. At that point, you're better off making a new file. Making a new one would take half the time - with two of the methods anyway - and you could use the old file to make something else; like a knife or a different tool.
So, yes, just buy a new one; or make a new one if you're also a smithy.
Great video. I highly recommend the French made liogier hand-stitched rasps and Italian made corradi rifflers 👍
Floats and curved tooth files are also used for auto body work and are great on "Bondo" and "lead" (which is actually wiping solder).
Right on. I was thinking of adding in the file holder to the conversation but decided to leave it alone.
A very interesting topic and well presented.
Worth every second of watching thanks
I was shocked by how much I use the kutzall carbide rasps. They actually work very well
I have tried those a few times, maybe one of these days I will get a couple.
Wow! your riffler collection is impressive! I'm interested in getting some rifflers for work handrail fittings. For general woodworking I would love to get a couple of hand stitched rasps some day and also some floats if I ever get around to making my own planes. One suggestions, if you have the capabilities of doing metalwork you can upcycle old files into different handmade tools. Thank you for the video!
As a blacksmith and a woodworker when my file gets dull I forge it so if you have any blacksmithing friends give them your old files they’re good steel generally
Right on. I have turned a few of mine into plane irons or dowel plates.
Great info!
The local swap meet have been amazing for me. Just a little cleaning and they are like brand new. Picked up $150 worth of files and rasps last week for $10. All are Nicholson brand.
Another great video
Nice. Sweet fine.
Great info thanks.
Thank You James!!! Great Info!!!! 😁👍😎
I started with some Chinese files and rasps and a couple 4-in-hands. One I got for free with something. Ones from the 70s. Then I bought 1 saw file.
Now I just buy them at estate sales. If I see a bag or box, I buy it and throw out a bunch or upgrade. If I see a solo one I don’t have, I’ll pay $1-2. I buy any saw file I see with life left in it, although most have come in bag-o-files form. I’ll want it eventually. I really don’t pass on many saw files or clamps I see. You can never have too many.
Although I did go to a sale where the company wanted $5 each for unremarkable files. It’s sad that now I know all the local estate sale companies. Some I go to on day 1, some day 2, some at the very end, and I just avoid Todd… I mean some companies.
No matter what file you have, the best tool and THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT.... the file card! 🙏🙏🙏
You need not apologize for lack of depth. This is a worthwhile video for most woodworkers. You're certainly right about buying used files from estate sales, flea markets and, I'd add, tool collectors' meetings. By using muriatic acid I've had some success sharpening dull files in a capped scrap of PVC plumbing tube. You'll be sorry months later if you do this inside your shop because the fumes make every ferrous surface susceptible to rust. All but the coarsest rasps respond to multi-hour immersion. Check every few hours and when satisfied neutralize the acid remaining on the file with baking soda and water. The steel is eaten away and, while it removes the shiny spots also adversely affects the shape of each tooth. Big box stores sell muriatic acid by the gallon but brick and block masons may be willing to sell you a quart which will likely last you many years, perhaps a lifetime. When outfitting a bunch of files with handles, a very good idea, pieces of corn cob do an admirable and near instantaneous job. The cobs of popcorn work great for little files.
Im sorry, but you cannot sharpen files with acid. Acid works to etch the surface....the whole surface. What is sharp???? Its where 2 surfaces meet with the smallest amount of radius (zero radius is technically not possible) Say you have an edge, and its razor sharp, its got that theoretical "zero" radius. It gets used and now it has 1mm of radius. You place it in acid and it etches the material....when you take it out, its still got that 1mm radius, just slightly smaller now than before. Lets scale it up......theres a mountain with a sharp pointed peak......its eroded over time from wind and rain (similar to the way acid erodes material).....it doesnt keep its sharply pointed peak, it rounds off. I think acid would actually make things less sharp (making up my own terms now hehe) Say you put a brand new file into acid, I think the acid would eat more from the sharp edges than the rest of the material.....lets say acid eats 0.5mm of metal per hour. You have an edge with "zero" radius......where those 2 surfaces meet is smaller than 0.5mm....so the acid ruins the edge and rounds it off.......I wish I could draw a diagram on here to show what I mean by this.
If we could sharpen edged tools with acid, wouldnt we all forgo the sharpening and honing on stones and just dunk our chisels, saws and plane irons into a vat of acid over night and awake to sharp tools in the morning?
Acid "sharpening" of files is nothing more than cleaning, and id imagine any felt effect of it cutting better is a placebo effect, or simply because its cleaner than it was before......the same way a file cuts better after its cleaned with a file card.
Im with James on this one....it really gets to me when someone mentions acid sharpening.......its cleaning, not sharpening.
Dunk your freshly honed chisel into acid and see if its still sharp when it comes out.
I dont mean to have a lambasting tone to my words.....this just really gets to me....I dont mean to offend :)
@@whittysworkshop982 Well explained. On the other hand, if you immersed a table knife in acid until you'd removed 1/128 of an inch you'd develop a jagged edge that would scrape more effectively. When I've acid treated dull files they didn't become good as new but they did cut wood again where they'd previously skated over the surface. I agree that some of the crud loading the teeth of a file that can't be cleaned with a file card and a pick will be removed by acid. I suspect 90% of apparent file wear is the result of abuse, of attempting to file tool steel or non-ferrous metals.
Great video thanks
"And they're a little bit more happy... for me". Someone's been watching Bob Ross again.
Love all your videos
thanks. and congrats on first
My favorite files made by Pferd and my favourite rasps made by Auriou
I love my Shinto rasp!
And my 4 in 1 is my most used file/rasp.
Very nice video!👍
Maybe next time you can add these Stanley’s sureform. They are useful as well.
There are a lot of other ones I could have added but again I was trying to pair it down to keep the video around 20 minutes.
Thanks for sharing you’re obsessions
James, finding your channel has given me lots to learn and time to kill during this pandemic. This is another one filled with loads of info and knowledge, but I just have to say how much I really dislike you right now after watching it. I'm fine with using cheap or old stuff and trying to make it work, I'm only now getting back into wood working and trying to do so on the very cheap, but having past experience using regular machine done rasps and then having you show a back to back comparison to a hand stitched rasp, I could not believe the difference I could hear and see in the cut and now I have to have one, one of those cheap rasps just won't do :-) j/k
Sorry man. I have caused a few wife issues that way.
when i was younger i rode competitively and used to shoe my own horses, so had the rasps. to be honest i still haven't bought a specialty wood rasp as my old rasps remove wood really quickly and with good technique can produce and excellent finish easily. (retired furniture maker)
In Germany back in the day there where filesharpeners. They deharden the fiele. Than restamp the grooves and then reharden them again.
Lots of work, but often well worth it back then they were worth a LOT more then they are now.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Vor files Rheydt had mashines. This job wos most comment in the time of ddr. They where close of reasoces so they reshapened the files.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Here is a Video of this job. czcams.com/video/8owKXUqlVMk/video.html
Wery intresting
That's what I need! Rifflers!
Once my files are dull, I grind them down on my low speed bench grinder and make them into marking and carving knives and awls
thank you James . use chalk on the files it helps to keep em from loading up so quickly ( 10 yrs as a machinist ) lol good use of the terms .
I have found the wax I use for my taps and dies works well for this also.
Dude those riffler rolls......insane. Who's the maker on those? Or are they a collection of various makers sets?
I made the rules. Just out of waxed canvas. The makers are a few different ones. There was a guy in Italy who bought a whole pallet of them years ago and sold them off and I got one of everything.
Where did you fjnd those canvas rolls? I need those for sure. Tha ks
I just sold those up myself. Wax canvas and folded over stitch it with a few pockets and you're done.
I didn't know hand made rasps were evean a thing anymore. Love my japanese saw rasp, when ,y spokeshave was struggling with some iron bark the rasp did a job great
Since you mentioned filing soft metals, sometime you might want to talk about 'chalking' and why 'pins' make even the best files work poorly.
do you ever catch yourself liking a video you already liked
Where do I find those cool fabric tool pouches that roll up??
I make mine. The blue ones are made out of waxed canvas. Just an hour or so with the sewing machine and you can make a specialty roll that'll fit your tools.
A few "Mexican milling machines" on standby are a pleasure in any workspace. Breaking sharp edges or creating them and better for smaller jobs in awkward corners, no looking for the correct blade on yr angle grinder, goggles, earmuffs, leads, batteries etc. A lot fewer messed up workpieces as well due to electrically overpowered overruns.
Hi James, was wondering how would you know if they need to be thrown out. I have bought a bunch also but don't know which to keep and which to get rid of. Need to start getting rid of some due to space😅 Thank you.
that is a hard question if you do not know what sharp feels like. but when they get dull they are just slower. they will still work they just get slower and slower.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I understand, its just hard to actually let go of some tools sometimes🥲
Sorry, I am super late to the party on this one, but taking a shot to see if anyone sees this. Does anyone have any thoughts on diamond coated files?
Diamond files are great for metalworking but they can be expensive and they wear out very quickly. They're not very good for woodworking there. They clog up too fast
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Thank you very much. I have lots to learn, but you have plenty of videos so I better get started. I appreciate it!
One of my calc professors had trousers where the plaid didn't line up.
Where did you get the riffler rolls? I have the same rifflers from the same source
I sewed them. Just used some waxed canvas.
Why hasn't someone figured out a way to manufacture rasps with a random pattern similar to hand cut? Doesn't seem like rocket science? Someone like Jeff Reed should get on this.
There are two companies that have it, but the price is about the same as hand stiched.
File chat! You olde smoothy! LOL.
What are the 20-30 rifflers you use?
I don't think I've ever used the same one twice. they are so individualized that generally you want to buy the riffler for the project you're working on. If you buy them ahead of time not knowing the project you'll probably never get the right one.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the importance of file handles.
I do not hold to the belief that they are incredibly important. Most people out there do not use them with a handle. And as long as you're not using them in a power tool method it's really not that big a deal. So I got a few videos on the topic talking about it. And I have a couple of videos showing how to make handles for them.
Hi, I'm trying to identify a file I picked up at the market recently. Perhaps you can help. The item is actually two files attached to a heavy piece of metal with a screw on handle which has a spring near the files ends. This I believe is to relieve the tension so the files can be replaced or removed.. There are no tangs on the two files but they are held onto the metal bar by a rectangle slot in one end and a hole in the other. The bar handle then screws and the files are thus tightened onto the jig. There isa no branding anywhere, they are double cut filers and 11.25 inches long and 1.5 inches wide. The thickness of the files is 2.5 mil. Can you or anyone assist.
Feel free to send me some pictures in an email. You can find the address in the about me tab on the channel page.
Is there a measure of how coarse a file/rasp is similar to the grit system with sandpaper? Does it vary from brand to brand, or are all files the same "grit"?
Rasps I’ve looked had a grain numbering system, 9 grain being coarser up to 15 grain bring finer.
A few company's try to, but most of the time they are just refered to as course, medium and fine.
File porn, but I can't believe that among my paltry ten files and rasps I have one you don't! It's a small item, about the size of your rifflers but used for removing soft rock around fossils. I have yet to find a woodworking use for it though.
you ever tried a diamond file? i work in construction and wondering if they would work on resharpening a 'disposable saw' ive tried stripping the teeth off and using a regular file and a hacksaw to cut in new teeth but i find the plate is still really hard
The work involved would be astronomical and have a better chance of messing it up. Even a blacksmith would rather make a new one then re file one.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo ah ok, well thanks for the info :)
Never knew handstitched rasp exist. Dang.
Crazy amount of work that goes into making them.
If you’re looking at a used file and you don’t have any place to test it how can you tell if it’s good or bad?
Just feel it. A sharp one catches on the skin. But most of the time with old ones you don't just buy one but a bucket of them.
I got my 4 in hand off ebay for $6 Australian and it works fine
Aw, you missed an end pun. "Well, I've run out of things to say and now I'm just riffing."
no microplanes? thanks for covering the curved tooth files, ive never seen those before.
Ya there were a lot of other types I could have gone into but had to draw the line somewhere sorry.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I suppose that's true. Thanks again for the video!
Files that are Rusted try to clean them or toss them?
A quick bath in a rust remover will fix that. If it is just surface rust I would just oil them and put them to use.
I’ll “file” this under tools ... nothing “boring” about this video 😳
How do you classify a surform?
Answered below. Thanks for your videos, always instructive
Files are those that you keep in a cabinet, floats are those that you put on the water, and rasps are those that you put in your wild berry jam… no?
So, was the majority of your riffling on your clogs?
no I carved those before I got the rifflers. but they are not very useful for chip carving.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo
Oh, okay. Just wondered. So more along the lines of like the grapes and grape leaves one might see on a mantle in Victorian era homes?
Sounding a bit raspy at the end. Please remind people to hit like button, I forget sometimes because the content is interesting
Was your voice getting a little raspy? Or was that a bunch of file accumulating in your throat. Just floating a thought. Teehee. Thanks for the good info.
Not a big deal, but you left out the micro plane rasp style.
I use my 4 in hand all the time, even though I have other files and rasps available.
yes there were quite a few other types I would have liked to go into, but in the sake of time I had to stop there. I may do a live vide on them soon where i can cover a lot more.
Thank you for pointing out that you cannot “resharpen” a file... I cringe when I see that😂
that one drives me bonkers too!
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I love a good 4 in hand
@@WoodByWrightHowTo don’t throw away dead files, give them to your local blacksmith for knife making
You can resharpen a file !!! Simple soak it in the acid of your choice and the acid removes small amounts of steel from the file leaving the cutting teeth sharp.
This is what file manufactures do when they make files, and what boggs file sharpening service does
So yes you can resharpen a file !!!!
@@Mr71paul71 nope. Sorry pal. You cleaned it and etched the surface. Leaving it porous. No way it was sharp as when it was new.
Dull files are not trash give them to your local blacksmith
LOL I just love your stupid jokes! Lol, sorry my voice is a bit Raspy there, I'll just have to file that video under Very interesting, let me Float that File on in that beautiful white oak cabinet. Hehe
🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷👍👍
"throw out"???
That's very sad. Worn out files are great for making other tools. At least give them away to someone who wants them!
Nice overview though.
45th.
Melanie maks hand sticht raps from 30-60€
You can sharpen files. When you dip them into the acid (or use galvanizing process to actually remove metal) you remove a thin layer of metal and not just gunk and you do get a sharper edge. Of course, you can only do that limited number of times and you do not get as good edge as with a brand new, good quality file.
Also, do not throw away the files. They are a good source of high quality steel that you can use for all kinds of interesting project. For example a burnishing tool for card scrapers, wood lathe tools, scraping tools ...
Nowadays, there are a great many files that simply will not cut, even if they are in a blister pack. I have learned that the very best files come from India, believe it or not. And, never but never store files together in a box or a drawer. Store them in a canvas roll. Why? When you rub files together, they dull each other.