Electric vs Diesel off road challenge.
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- In this episode we take 2 Tesla powered Land Rover Defenders out on one of the most extreme green lanes in the country - Bastard Lane in Mid Wales. As well as the electric Defenders we've also got two diesel 4x4s joining us. A BMW powered Land Rover Defender 90 and an Isuzu Trooper. Let's see how they compare on various obstacles like rock crawls, water crossings, off-camber and some pretty serious inclines and declines on typical wet slippy Welsh rock.
My Tesla powered green Defender has all stock suspension apart from Terrafirma Monotube shocks and runs on BF Goodrich T/A tyres.
The Spectre Defender has a 2" Terrafirma TF234 lift kit, running on Renegade Radar M/T tyres.
Both electric Defenders have 100kWh battery packs with mid mounted Tesla motors producing 450hp and lots of torque. There's 3 LSDs to put the power to where it needs to be, one in each axle and one centrally in the motor. All the electrics are sealed so water crossings are not a problem.
As an American, its really a pleasure to see how the culture of off-roading is in the U.K.
Its nice to cut through all the stigmas and stereotypes. Thanks for sharing
I am not a an offroader but found this video scarily brilliant to watch
Thanks 👍😀
Read my mind
This is the best approach converting people to EV for the stubborn digging there heals in it secretly opens a few eyes.
I think Land Rover have definitely missed a trick in not talking to you Richard. They have spent billions developing the new Defender model, with only one PHEV variant that is a) too expensive and b) too posh for the people who really need them. The quality of engineering in your vehicles is world class, and you are recycling old Defenders and electric components to produce a very desirable and usable vehicle. I love the way that the regenerative braking turns the motor into a stepper motor giving infinite control. Great video Richard 👍🏴😎
Thanks. I agree, they shouldn't have stopped making the old Defender. They just needed to modernise it with 21st century drivetrain. 👍
This is awesome! Love the conversions you all do. Whether it be cars and /or people.
Thanks 👍😀
I'm just half way through the video and I paused to say that this one wins the internet for today... been driving a deisel twincab Isuzu 4x4 for sometime and that trooper put a smile on my face
Thanks, it was impressive on the rock drops. 👍😀
That Trooper impressed us all. 👍
Thanks for the massive help getting up Bastard lane guys, the electric Landies were fantastic 👍🏻
No worries. Hope you guys had a good rest of the day. 😁👍
Welcome, hope you had a good day. The spinning rear wheels of the bikes does show how slippy and difficult that climb was. 👍😀
I must admit. I'm liking the spectre spec defender. A lot 👍
Looks cool 👍😀
Ditch the leather and I would agree. :)
good to know that classic offroad can go-green but still with utility function
The only time an EV is green is if you paint it that colour.
Excellent. You guys are the hippies. The trendsetters, trail blazers in improving tweaking electric vehicles become formidable off-roaders.
Thanks 👍😀
So smooth and "available on demand" torque delivery on those electrics!
Great content as always.Thanks for sharing and taking us along
Beautiful colours,my all time favourite is Oliv Drab 💯🤠🇬🇧🤟
The electric ones go with so much grace ; pure silence; amazing
Would be much better if one of them actually had a landrover engine. Entertaining and thanks for sharing
that small grey Land Rover is amazing. I love it.
Isuzu Trooper... astonishingly capable
Well said. 👍😀
Two Mountains worth 😂 that should now be taken as an electric 4x4 standard unit of measure.. Richard you are a genius.
11:06 Such BEAUTY 💯🇬🇧❤ She's pure futuristic moon buggy.
Taking that pretty standard trooper along with those heavily mod'd defenders should get some respect too! In the 'lecy ones all you hear are the springs unseating/reseating and the transmission getting wound up lol! I'd love to see a specific low speed Off road mode where the traction motor is actually put into speed control mode and that speed is set with the accelerator pedal. In this case the high speed torque control capability of the inverter would really shine!
That's exactly what we have in the Defenders (2 modes) and why we were out that day. Setting up the off road mode in the Black Defender. That Trooper performed fantastic all day. We were very impressed with it's abilities. 👍
Trooper did good 👍👍👍
I'm not a big fan of SUV's, but it was amazing to hear the sounds of nature when the EVs passed by compared to the ICE's. 👍
It's even more amazing when you have an SUV and get ya ass out there. Try it while you still can, because there are people who want to ban it
@@bigglyguy8429 My uncle had an UAZ-469 and we went a few times in the forest in the mountain to work. It wasn't a very pleasant ride: noisy, bumpy, smelly... And nowadays these SUVs are everywhere, but not in the mountain where they belong, taking far too much space in the narrow city streets! I think they should be banned, unless they are EVs (with weight and size limitations) and restricted to certain areas, industries or government agencies!
@@yanitsvetanov1162 I think that people that think other people's choices should be banned, should be banned.
Everywhere.
I don't think they should be banned. You think they should be banned because they take up too much space? What kind of reason is that? Thats ridiculous.
This is a really informative video, would love it. Cool
I wish I could afford one, but I love these!
The electric black 007 was amazing
I've never really wanted a Land Rover. Now I want an electric one!
Lol, same here
Shame I’m too tall for one, guess I could kick the passengers out and have the seat mounts shifted
Me too.😄
Good choice sir 👍😀
Ladies and ranges are complete garbage off road compared to Nissan patrols. But now with the possibility of electric drive it's time to utilise those aluminium vehicles with Nissan drivetrains for the best off road combination possible.
1967 Chevy Truck 4x4. Fording a river in Idaho,
When it started going sideways…. Butchie calmly states..”
“It’s YOUR turn to turn the Hubs in !”
Reminds me of the day a friend was using her 4x4, unsuccessfully, to tow another vehicle that had become stuck. I asked them, "have you locked the front hubs?" They looked at me dumbfounded so I checked, nope, unlocked. I had seen the rear wheels spinning but not the front. So I locked them by turning the hub knob, hopped in and towed the other vehicle out. Then educated them lol. I had never driven a 4x4 before, except your regular Subaru, where it is a permanent awd setup. But then I am a male, and the driver was female, so.........hehehe
Great demonstration of EV Off Road power take up. Cheers AJ
You are doing what I have been thinking about. There are so many already existing great cars that could still drive and drive with electric engines without thinking about oil. Cool.
You have new subscriber.
Welcome 👍😀
Where are the old folk hitting you with sticks for having fun in THEIR countryside 🤪🤠🤟💯🇬🇧
Contrary to what I thought, it looked more powerful when, especially the Spector, almost silently climbing than if I heard a diesel.
As a hunter, it is also good not to scare away all game within a three mile radius...
Easy and effortless; sums it up really
Looks like the only advantage the diesel has is the ability to extend range by attaching extra jerry cans or borrowing a friends,
Another advantage of the diesel is that it's a lot cheaper and within the range of most people.
One more story… “Hey..lean out and see if the tires are cleaning”
Ha ha ha ha in 4 wheel drive, all tires sling up a rooster tail of mud!
Gotta love the electric Landys, seemed to be very smooth in there operation and probably heaps more reliable as well.
You bet 👍😀
"We are also converting people..." That is probably an even bigger achievement 😀 and even more important 😊
I thought these were RC Model cars. Lol I know should’ve known from the thumbnail. Still, love the Land Rovers!
Nice drive in "Bastards Lane", 2 things for the ultimate off roader, diff lock and lower them tyres pressures to 20psi or less with them light 90s.
Ah yes, b'stard lane... thought I recognised it.
Another great vid, thank's Richard and crew 👍🏻
Welcome 👍😀
Lane, so it actually goes somewhere lol.
Wow that’s just incredible
Fantastic the way you can hear the "nature noises" and get a sense of calm with the electric versus the revving etc. of the diesels.
Great video, watching the precise control of the EV’s was fantastic.
Thanks 👍😀
Love watching
Brilliant, really smart what you have done
Boy, that looks like too much FUN!!
Beautiful bits of kit. The silence is golden, especially out in the country. Well done for letting us hear it (no sound track) :) I have a Zero electric Motorbike, listening to birds as you bimble through the lanes, is priceless.
Yep, couldn't agree more. Off roading in near silence is very relaxing. 😁👍
Have you watched our episode with the Zero motorbike? 👍😀
czcams.com/video/KY5rkEuy--A/video.html
Fantastic result. If only I had the cash… Maybe in a few years one is in the cards
EV's are the ideal off-road vehicle actually. Good to see such a well built one.
I absolutely love your electric Land Rover. When my current leasing expires I’m almost certain I’ll get a conversion kit. :)
Wise move 👍😀
I love an ICE vs EV video.
Awesome! 🔥vs⚡
I think this video shows the Isusu is a beast .
Nice and Smooth @ 7:38, nice one Richard (y)
I'm currently in the Diesel club. I have a Cummins powered Jeep CJ-7. But I'm subscribed to you channel to keep getting information on your classic electric conversions. This was a great episode, and pretty much exactly what I expected. I look forward to doing an electric conversion to a Jeep some day very soon.
Thanks 👍😀
Great comparison and a really interesting video. The off road mode is presumably needed to prevent drivetrain component damage due to the availability of instant, unrestrained 100% torque without it. Very clever indeed.
Real shame you completely ignored the long-standing Voluntary Restraint though, which is to prevent excessive damage caused by driving the lane in an uphill direction. Sadly this vid may only encourage others to do the same, hastening the inevitable TRO and consequent ban.
The off road mode just makes it easier to drive in slow technical sections, as well as other advantages like hi regen for hill descents. Someone else has mentioned this voluntary restraint in the comments. I live local and wasn't aware of it. No signs on the lane either to explain it. Where did you hear of this and who has put that in place as nobody seems to know about it. Lots of people were doing it uphill when we were there.
From Wikiloc: Horseshoe lane (aka b/stard lane) the (Snowdonia national) park ask that you drive this in a one way s to n direction until it swaps to a w to e where it drops down to the waterfall, to minimise any futher damage as trying to drive up the waterfall is leading to oil and fluids getting into the holiday villages water supply. For any futher info you can contact the parks head access officer Peter Rutherford on O79OO2674538 or office on O176677O274
GLASS also have it marked as VR downhill only on Trailwise2.
I live locally too and have done it in both directions (pre VR) and going uphill is more challenging. Presumably many users, even if aware of the VR, ignore it for this reason.
There was physical signage at one time, but it routinely "disappeared"....
HTH and thanks for your further comment re. Offroad mode.
nice course!
The electric powered vehicles, will overcome the ICEs. Even with my i3 driving on loose terrain, when I go crawling with my 1/10 RCs in the forest, its so easy to modulate the throttle and I can imagine, if this i3 would have 4 WD and a bit more clearance, will crawl like a beast...
Amazing work, i love this Lands Rovers greetings from Mexico.
I hadn't at all thought about crawling style offroading using so little energy. We took a friend's Rivian R1T out and compared it to my F150 Raptor on a slower speed trail with a few rock gardens. The R1T did well (needed better suspension) but I was focused on how it performed rather than on how much energy it was using. These rigs you've built are amazing! Would love to have one as an around town/wheeling vehicle here in Tahoe!
We're going to to a Landy Vs Rivian off road challenge soon. 👍
@@ElectricClassicCars Looking forward to it! We found the Rivian had good ground clearance with the suspension at full height but it was really stiff as you'd expect. Traction control did a decent job but it's not the same as a locked diff.
Nice one Moggy, loved it.
I know it's only a easy dirt road but I'm wondering why non of you seem to air down, it would aid traction immensely and reduce all the bouncing around you do.
Yep. I totally forgot to air down. 😁👍
9:50 My man, you need limit straps. It's not just about keeping your spring in place but not over extending your shock either.
Great video btw!
The next thing would be 4 individual motors with smart control as to measure the movement and it could feel the environment as in the position. As the position of the car in general would be a thing the axle s could also be included in such a system as into the amount of weight is on there, the amount of contact and I know Land Rover has a sort system like that but it could be brung to several level higher I think.
After all said it’s “offcoure’s” much more fun to having it being a challenge and a bigger reward after overcoming thats what been put under your wheels or just in front of you.
That said I do wanna have a electric genuine landrover defender.
4 inboard motors and brakes - regen mostly
The difference between noise of the vehicles is so dramatic. First you have the noisy motorbikes, then the diesels with the diesel rumble then the electrics come past and all you hear is the slight electric whine from the motor but most of all you hear nature!
Have you guys ever thought of setting up a shop in Australia 🇦🇺?
It is wonderful to hear the birds and trees etc as you rumble by. 👍😀
I seem to remember they have a dealer in Australia that installs their kits.
This was an interesting challenge 🖤 really enjoyed this episode ❤ keep up the good work guys 👏
Thanks 👍😀😊
Thank you
I'm not an off roader, however, I assume a lot of the love of it is the balancing the gas and clutch, keeping the revs up, not stalling it... So would guess it's probably quite difficult to shift the mindset in a good lump of people to not having to worry about that.
@@alanmay7929 massively debatable
@@alanmay7929 It's all down to personal preference, having driven offroad for nearly 50 years with auto and manual transmissions I would have said manual a few years ago but advancing age and worn out knees I find auto easier to use now but manuals are just as good, I've yet to find an auto that can crawl as slow as my Unimogs 4000/1 ratio!
@@alanmay7929 My 406 is manual, with 20 forward ratios!!
@@alanmay7929 My 406 does about 80yds per hour downhill, all on engine breaking without any electronic intervention, if hdc failed on an auto going down a steep hill there could be problems especially if the ground is slippery.
Not sure how I missed this, great test. Hywel's Nintey sounds lovely and smooth (very nice overall) but I'd take EV any day. So much control, better than the best automatic. I really should change career from IT to working with these.
Thanks 👍😀
A couple of cable ties later, Job done ✔️ 👍.
Essential kit in the camera bag 👍😀
That looks really fun! I want one 😊👍
Very capable cars and nice route 👍
Thank you! 👍
4 motor drive and 3D mapping suspension will be the future IMO
An electric motor must be better than combustion with the improved control of power deliver. No idea how anyone can possible doubt this fact.
Would be pretty rad to sort out a locker for that tesla drive. triple locked electric would be slick.
Easily done but so far I've not needed it so not done it. 👍
@@ElectricClassicCars who sells a Tesla locker? I’ve seen the lsd but not a full lock. I’ve got an 88 Mitsubishi montero that would be insane with a Tesla drivetrain
I'd say a big sales point missed by Moggy at the end of the video, is I reckon the electric L/rovers as well as being so much more efforless to drive would be the ease and less strain on all the major componets with the electric powertrain. The extra abuse the engine, clutch, gearbox ,etc an ice powered Landie takes over rough terrain would be way lower with ECC's electric power train.
Just wish they wern't so expensive to convert, richmans toy at the momen. There's a huge market for a no nonsense, no frills, 4x4 utility. Wish someone could make an affordable electric 4x4 pick up utilising. galvanised chassis, rust proof panels, sealed electrical components basic cab, one you can pressure wash inside out to clean....job done! Should last a life time.
p.s. to my above comment. My only hope is that the Tesla Cybertruck gets scaled down in size for UK/European roads, i'd buy that!
It's funny but that reg plate says BOOT SPaCe to me!
Great fun! That electricity consumption came as a complete surprise. Think how practical an electric Landy would be for farmers. Electric tractors next, perhaps? Thanks for the video, Richard. 🙂👍
EVs would be ideal for farms/agriculture. 👍😀
@@spudproductions7606 Absolutely! I see that JCB have been making a few tentative steps with plant for the building and demolition industries too. Acorns and oak trees.
Add a solar panel tk the roof that constantly charges the battery
OMG...just the sound difference on first track...I'll take electric any day to be in the woods without engine noises!!!
Jaguar Land Rover Directors must be chuffed with the free advertising this video has given them
It's great for heavy 🚦 traffic 👍
Super impressive! Fun video 😄
Thanks 👍😀
This will be very interesting between
thumbs up for the lekkie landy awesome vid yet again
Thanks 👍😀
One thing to note is that the electric ones have significantly way more power than the diesel so managing all that huge power for off-road is also a benefice.
Great video mate
The old engine really masks all the interesting noises now audible in electric. Great vid.
I love the electric landys. All that torque and fine control. I do like the trooper too.
Super cool! I always wear a big smile when your videos are finished👍And now we know it's just a matter of sealing, I look forward to see how it performs as a submarine. But of course you need to find a periscope first 🤣
Or I just need to hold my breath, or maybe Santa will bring me some scuba gear. 😁👍
And be able to hold your breath. 👍😀😂
If I had to convert a Land Rover, I’ll just make it run on vegetable/used oil in a old model and save money tbh!
Your "E 90" is my absolute dream
proper off roading, I used to do that in my kombi! hahaha.
🤣😂😆 doubtful. 😜👍
@@ElectricClassicCars Oh Ye of little faith! hahaha.
@@ElectricClassicCars with my suspension cranked up and my 1800 fuel injection, there weren't many places I could not get too. That rig took me 8 times around Australia over a period of 10 years.
I think that blue 90 pick-up is crying out for electric conversion! Fantastic to watch you guys, cheers
Thanks 👍😀
Nope it’s not.
For semi trucks going down a big hill in Canada it would be charging the batteries all the way down.
Certainly need further comparisons on different terrain and towing in them.
I mainly do sand tracks (soft) and to a camper trailer and also far off the grid where there are no option for charging stations. Then add on the Australian heat running the air condition, as the same time.
The trip on the tracks takes about 4 hours if they are good, super soft 5 to 7 hours.
Last trip was super soft and I was around the 16 - 17Lper 100km. Normal with out towing I’m 10L around town. Towing is 12-13L.
I’d have doubts around capability of EV’s in our climate and ability not to run out of power in remote areas.
EVs seem to love mountains - shocker! Especially love the "fuel" consumption.
Its a funny thing but one technology that has improved in leaps and bounds is 'glue' you can now stick a piece of paper to the side of a boat and sail it to America and the piece of paper will still be there. If Battery technology had gone forward at the same rate, we probably would have something the size of a car battery that could power a car for weeks if not months before a recharge.
Cost of conversion of a crew cab to a "007 spec"? 🤔
yes I want to know as well!
Have you heard the saying “ if you have to ask the price ……………?” 👍😀
No need to convert me, I'm a few days to get a 2017 model S 75D...😁
Edit, I would LOVE to have a fantastic E-land rover... 👍
A stealthy offroader!
Impressed with the Isuzu...but it was lost on the way back.
Yes, we were impressed too although it did struggle a little on the big obstacles on the way back up. 👍
It had to leave early.
We make it easy 4 you!!!! Go Electric 💡🤓
Great video guys and I'm not so sure my 1976 Toyota Land Cruiser would hove done so well as the Land Rovers, EV or diesel. These trails so wet and muddy but you all did well.
It was soooo slippy that day, as you could see from the bikers who really struggled to get up the wet rocks.
You might be surprised 👍😀
Just need diff locks and easy it is! People are still off-roading and overlanding in 40 years old Land Cruisers lol…
I would've liked to have seen the electric landies go through a deeper "puddle". Just sometimes, when the water is flowing here in Australia, it can come over the bonnet. (Sadly, as much as my heart desires it, I'm never going to own a Land Rover, but I'm a keen off roader with a sense that electric is the way all off roaders are going.....)