New Data on "Triglyceride Carryover" with Low Carb / Carnivore Diet
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- I detail new preliminary data just captured regarding unusually high fasting triglycerides and a series of experiments I took on to help understand it.
- Věda a technologie
Well done and thanks!
,'m a retired Clinical lab scientist and was taught to tell patients to fast for 12 hrs before getting tested for lipid levels.
When I went for my annual labs the other day, I was asked if I was fasting, but not if I had fasted for at least 12 hours or had cream in my coffee.
Someone else commented that the VA doesn't require 12 hours due to blood sugar concerns.
So now it looks like many patients are going to have falsely elevated lipid levels.
I recently experienced this at the VA. They prescribed me a statin. I really don't want to take it. But my triglycerides were in the 500s so I was definitely way off.
Thanks to your great research and video, I know why I am a carnivore and my triglyceride test came back 340. I ate a fatty meat breakfast before the test because the doctor didn’t tell me to fast until after the test. From now on I will fast 12-13 hours only. THANK YOU!!!!
OMG, I feel sooooo much better now! I just had the same experience yesterday. My tri number was 364, despite all the other general / overall numbers were good. (I had an impromtu testing. Hadn't fasted. Had a steak and eggs, cooked in butter of course, breakfast.)
Very interesting data!
Your turn Dr. Berry!
Happy New Year! Thanks for your work Dave!
This is beyond helpful and explains so much. Wonderful precision and analysis!
This means that triglyceride numbers mean NOTHING UNLESS they are linked to TIME. What does that mean for all the HDL/TRIG ratios etc, etc, etc. The body is constantly regulating these things just like your heart rate.
Agree. Same with thyroid and even bloodsugar readings - so difficult to pin point things.
Very interesting that your TG was elevated before the meal!
Thank you so much for all of this amazing experimentation, and all of your finger pricking!
I think brain knows what's happening and hormone levels can come from brain prior to actual biochemical/macro triggers.
He had already eaten two meals before that one, so why would it go down? Not enough time between meals to get them low.
This is great! Thanks for all your work!
One dimension which is important to interpret these values, is if you did lose weight. While I'm on Keto and lose weight my values are high, after plateau and not losing weight, I'm constantly low on lipids.
Interesting as my hubby's last TG was elevated and the rest of the metrics is looking all good, so this explains a lot! thank you!
thanks bro, its a wonderful study u did and reaaaaaly helpful
Excellent study - so good to know ahead of blood test! 😊
Wow! Fascinating 🤓👏👏 thanks for all your videos🤗
Awesome work, Dave! Hope your fingers are feeling better 😆
Dave, thanks for being our human pincushion! After listening to your videos, I had an NMR lipid test done this morning. fasting time was 16 hours. Hope this wasnt too long. Test is important to me as I want to come off rosuvastatin, and want to prove to my doctor that my tri's/ldl are the good kind.
you should just come off it if you don't have existent heart disease.
It isn't too long from my experience. 1-2 days fasting would help you more.
You are amazing brother, this is fascinating information and makes perfect sense . One thing comes to mind from the data you present , this also looks like linked to cortisol Spike with circadian cycle ?
That was my thought-- cortisol spike would explain this. Which makes me wonder if someone was stressed out on a morning rushing to get to a lab with traffic, etc, would that possibly spike the trigs even if fasting long enough? I think that triglycerides are likely very dynamic and levels vary throughout the day and night.
Thank you for doing this!
Dave...you are engineer...impresive explanation....making something clear....
Thanks so much for this, Dave. Let your fingers rest up a bit! :)
I had no idea trigs were that volatile. Thanks for all you do.
Was waiting for that.
Basically if you do not eat then it is always fine. Once you eat it is the problem. That is great to see your lines on that. Thank you, as I can visualize that better for me. I know how to control my next lab tet results after this.
Nice documentation! Thanks :)
Fascinating content; thank you! Out of curiosity, what does it mean if your triglycerides are 0.60 or 0.88 mmol/L after 12 hours of fasting? I'm assuming it's good, but what does it mean? Is it simply telling me I don't have a lot of fat floating around in my blood? Or does it mean something else as well?
Amazing Info! It makes me wonder at what time the level should be tested!
12 hours was the standard minimum fasting time for all lipid testing.
Thank you for this!! Now I know why my triglycerides were so high when I had just eaten my ribeye steak 2 hours before my lab work! Phew!
thank u for sharing this information. good job 👍
How accurate are those at home cholesterol monitors to begin with? I heard from product user reviews that results can vary dramatically from sample to sample due to pipette sampling errors or different volume of blood sample self drawn.
Fascinating! Thank you for being our human guinea pig.
Nice work! Keep it up.
WOW! Amazing! I want to do these hourly tests after HIIT, weightlifting and running (each done on a different day) - see what difference plays the intensity of training... But currently I don't have $800 to spend on this... Great work and thank you for sharing the results!
Begs question of rate of gastric emptying relative to macros. I know nuclear medicine gastric emptying studies have a standard meal eggs and toast and o.j., but curious if there are any studies comparing other macro patterns (high fat or high protein). Protein isnt really fuel like fat/carbs so I would hypothesize that it empties from stomach slower to moderate absorption which would then push back Trig levels temporally.
And what about those who have had gastric bypass or low stomach acid?
Love you work here. Have you studied what happens to lipid levels at 12 hours with and without exercise in the last few hours of the fast? i.e. should I avoid exercising while fasting prior to a lipid panel? I'm fat adapted and on a keto diet, and do a 16/8 fast most days, but my last lipid panels were high, taken at 16 hours of fast with an intense 1 hour 15 minute workout just prior to blood draw. Next time I'm skipping the workout to see if things change.
Oldskool Driver I fasted 19.5 hours before a recent blood test and my triglycerides were 190. All my markers are fine besides that. I was shocked along with my LCHF doctor. No idea what to do at this point. I was zero carb up to that point for 4 solid months with absolutely NO cheating whatsoever and I DID have a very intense workout the day before. Don’t know what to think at this point 😟
You are testing after you wake up. What about the third shifters that work at night and then go to the doctor first thing in the morning? I could get the 14 hours of fasting but I will not have sleep before going to the doctor. Do you think this effect still applies?
This is very interesting data. I’m going to get a home test kit got lipids panel. Prices range between $100 and $400 with about 10 test strips.
I’m wondering if the spike is due to the morning waking glucose rise that normally happens in the 1st few hours after or during waking.
So tempted to buy one of these testers. But the cost per test is still pretty high. I hope these test strip costs come down like ketone test strips.
I had a fasting cholesterol test and have been on keto for six weeks . My tryglicerades were higher than before keto . HDL went down too. LDL very high. I was worried why this was as expected LDL to rise. GP wanted me on statins. I'm in the UK and I worked out tryglicerades 120 .This is very interesting.
My cholesterol skyrocketed from 5.8 to 9.1
From March to oct
Seeing a lipids specialist
Got a lipoprotein (a) test …nasty sticky cholesterol
Waiting for results
Trigs are low normal 3
How can you test your triglyceride so often?
Was the carnivore diet keto or mainly protein based? From what you ate I doubt it was fat based... More meat than fat it looks to me.... So could it be that protein is more hard to digest?
And an other question. Have u done the same experiment with completely KETO or SAD diet? So we could compare?
How do you test your tri’s so easily?
So if someone is having a blood test for triglycerides/HDL ratio they should fast for at least 12 hours?
Thank you ...thank you... thank you.
My last blood draw was at 8 am 127
My previous blood draw was at 11 am 80
what are you using to measure your TG?
Dave, what were your daily calories on this experiment? Are you possibly going above your maintenance level?
Dave, It would be interesting if you can comment on how carnivore affects your ketosis. When I was learning about ketosis, I was focusing only on carbs, but my high protein levels kept me out of ketosis. With 3 meals of protein a day, I'm guessing you are not in ketosis and may need to go to OMAD to get into ketosis. That may be an interesting experiment :-)
Wondering how it would affect to have moderate volume exercise right after the last meal..
How are you testing? What is the device you are using?
🔥On LCHF for near,y 4 years and for the first time in my life have triglycerides at over 300, hdl at 90, and LDL at 331. Can’t fast longer than 15 hours, 113 pound, BMI at 20, senior age. Really depressed on this baffling outcome. IR non fasting was 22 uml
Same here. I GUESS mine due to increased sat fats and maybe because I went from 3 to 5 eggs a day.
Suspect some of us do better on mono fats than sat fats....?
Also, what was your baseline prior to this "test" and were you in ketosis prior to the "test"? Seems like Trigs at 221 at the beginning of the test tells us you were not in ketosis to start. Forgive me if you covered this in the video.
The US VA Health System no longer requires 12-14 hr fasting before blood tests. Supposedly this decision was to avoid 'dangerous low glucose levels' on some individuals. Again, this started about 5 months ago this year. Wanting to avoid low-glucose conditions is fine but, how many veterans will be placed on statins or other medication because their results are skewed because of not observing the long-standing fasting window? I personally, will continue to observe 12-14 hr fasting before my lipid and thyroid panels at the VA. My triglycerides have this exact behaviour described on this video when I don't fast exactly 12-14 hrs. I also try to make my meal low carb but also low fat.
Thanks for sharing. This is important and disturbing information. I retired from the VA after working in the lab for 34 years. This is malpractice.
I am disgusted with how spineless pathologists have become. It is their job to police medical staff and medical administration to ensure quality lab testing and surgical procedures are done.
(Same goes for supporting mask wearing and not performing autopsies on any C19 patients. They knew those policies were wrong and failed us).
3 month in carnivore diet. Just tested today. My trig were very high 400+ at 7.30. Never happen before. Confuse me. Want to check again in couple day.
Where can I get a home triglycerides tester?
Amazon has test strips
Only because your trigs dropped after 9 am ish the first thing that came into my mind was Cortisol. I get the dawn phenomenon. If I check my blood sugar after 8 am it is always high anytime after or before it is lower. I couldn't help but think maybe it could be something to do with a release of fat not unlike the release of blood sugar in relation to the hormone surge around this time to wake and get the body going at the time.
When you burn fat, removing the fatty acids from the triglycerides leaves the glycerol. The glycerol makes it way back to the liver where it's converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis. In fact, working out while fat adapted can cause your blood glucose levels to increase.
Section 16.3 Glucose Can Be Synthesized from Noncarbohydrate Precursors
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22591/
"The major noncarbohydrate precursors are lactate, amino acids, and glycerol."
"The hydrolysis of triacylglycerols (Section 22.2.1) in fat cells yields glycerol and fatty acids. Glycerol is a precursor of glucose, but animals cannot convert fatty acids into glucose, for reasons that will be discussed later (Section 22.3.7). Glycerol may enter either the gluconeogenic or the glycolytic pathway at dihydroxyacetone phosphate."
"The major site of gluconeogenesis is the liver, with a small amount also taking place in the kidney."
I would agree
Super informative. Thank you! Is it pretty normal to have fluctuating triglycerides on a carnivore diet?
Trigs are very sensitive to weight loss says my cardiologist
To all people asking how could he test for triglycerides so often. Some glucometers with specialized strips allow you to do that.
That explains why my triglycerides were 191 last week when my annual blood work was done. I fasted about 11 hrs max. Last meal was to 7:30 pm. Blood drawn about 8:20 am next day (VA clinic)
Could this also affect hdl/ldl numbers??
I’m retesting Thursday through ownyourlabs. Sharing my data to your program.
What do you use for a home triglyceride test?
Thank you 😊
How does this relate to people with Familial Hypercholesterolemia? Very interested to see how diet effects these triglyceride levels. From my own experience, it seems that the levels are greatly affected by what the person ate the night before they fasted and especially what they ate right before.
Question which raises for me. If that is your regular eating pattern your triglycerides are high for the most time of your day. If prolonged high Triglycerides are considered to be bad for your health for the reason of beeing high not for the reason of beeing a marker for something else. I think it could be unhealthy. For sure it seems to be high because of the food you ate and considered all the meals cause that high Triglycerides. They are high from 11:00 to your last meal plus a maximum of 12 hours. If we assume 11 hours after last meal as average. 18 hours of your day the Triglycerides are over 200 and 6 hours below 100. I think the 12 hour water only fasting rule for your bloodtest has its reasons to divide sick from healthy. But what needs to be think of is if the prolonged very high levels caus problems themselves
Is there anything to be said about optimal dinner time?
Question. Doesn't it make sense that your body doesn't actually need all of the lipids (fats) that you are eating, so your TG will be higher? On the carnivore diet you just don't have the time to use all of the fat you eat if you don't exercise. This makes sense to me. It is super interesting, but seems like common sense vs a new discovery.
Sooo. If Trigs are so variable, does it invalidate the trig/HDL ratio to determine if one has small dense LDL? OR is that Trig/HDL ratio based on FASTING numbers? I am confused. My fasting trig/HDL ratio is 1.1, which puts me in the "you have no small dense LDL" category. This video now has me concerned. Mr. Feldman or anyone else have any opinion other than get a lipid subfraction test?
Just make sure you fast for at least 12 hours before any lipid testing and they should be true and accurate fasting results.
Dave, what meter do you use and or recommend?
I may be assuming but I did hear him say cardio check.
I'm always radiating heat when I wake up in the morning, regardless of what I ate the day before. It diminishes to normal levels after a couple of hours awake. Is this elevation of triglycerides in the morning a reasonable explanation for the thermogenesis my body goes through?
Could be. The energy must escape somehow, if not through some other metabolic processes that don't involve losing some energy to heat.
AWESOME THANKS.
What if you don't sleep at all?
So it takes at least 12 hours to get a good fasting TG number.
How do you test your triglycerides at home??
Hey Dave, you forgot to answer Granddad08 question "how did you measure the triglycerides with what machine etc"
Cardiocheck plus
Which home tests are worth the cost? I’m seeing some at $100-$150 for strips plus device. Are these accurate?
No, they're made for diabetic sugar addicts with sky high values. If you're eating low carb you most likely have them around 50, in which case the device will just report "
How are you checking your triglycerides so quickly? Do you have an at home cholesterol meter? If so, what is it?
He mentions cardiocheck.
Informative and interesting. hypothesis.
IIRC, triglycerides are there to fight against viruses. Have you gotten sick yet this season...?
You remember wrong. Triglycerides are the converted, storable form of energy in your body. Glucose is converted to this if your glycogen stores are full. Fat is converted to this right away. Having high triglycerides is seen as bad predominantly because it means your body is having trouble storing the energy in your adipocytes, so its just floating around in your blood. In someone who is burning fat for fuel though, high triglycerides is akin to high glucose, its there to be burned.
Mine was 840... is that really worrisome? The results say ALERT. been hyper-carnivorous for a year. 95% carnivore with most of the cheats being outright junk food (donuts, icecream, twizzlers), but I was strict carnivore for 2 weeks besides 1 kiwi before getting my blood work. Fasted 13 hours as well.
Sorry about your fingers - do they ever get a chance to recover .??
How do you test triglycerides at home
Did you check your triglycerides after 12 hours? 14? Does it continue to drop? Or is 12 the magic number?
So need atleast 12+hrs before blood tests for TG to go down. But if you fast longer say to 16-18hrs will it go up again?
@The Unknown depending on country you're in that's good or bad 😂😂😂
Not for me .
I fasted 19.5 hours before a recent blood test and my triglycerides were 190. All my markers are fine besides that. No idea what to do at this point. I was zero carb up to that point for 4 solid months with absolutely NO cheating whatsoever.
@@gangelo2787 mine were over 400. kinda nuts.
well the point is unless ur always fasting, ur triglycerides are gonna be up all the time. Which may not be healthy. To value ur health only when ur fasted is only relevant if ur always fasted. If your someone who is gonna eat throughout the day, then you can safely assume, your levels will always be high, which to me, sounds not too great.
Does the hotdog has hidden sugar?
My experience on carnivore is that I do not want to eat more than once a day. I eat one big meal, usually beef and eggs. Sorry I have no data now. But it appears that omad and carnivore go together. I will try to help with data if I can. Very interesting data.
I’ve learned I can’t do one big meal on carnivore anymore. I was getting intense stomach pain - my body couldn’t break down that much protein at once. 110g of protein in one sitting is just too much for certain people. I had to restart my entire diet with bone broth and reintroduce food slowly to get my stomach and digestion re-set. Then I started doing smaller meals and it improved my carnivore experience tremendously. Until then, i wasn’t sure I could make it on carnivore because I was in so much GI pain.
I had no idea that TGs were so high after meals. I've had low TGs for a while, but now it appears that outside of fasting for 12 or more, they can be pretty high. What does this info mean for those who might not have as high HDLs as we would like? My ratio is pretty good on my fasting lipid tests, but is that misleading?
Mine were high after a fasting test. I was shocked. Also HDL lower all since starting keto . I had high LDL and expected that . I was scared to see this .
@@debbietaylor20 same..tho triglycerides come down from 5.1 to 3.i was expecting better as not had carbs or sugar for months on keto.hdl only gone up .01 and LDL tripled.worried
A man possessed, in good way. So important to the data. Get some good rest. Thanks for your commitment and hard work. Lipids - Who knew they could be so fun.
The man can measure, but cannot think.
@@erastvandoren You appear delusional Erast. The only way to get LDL as low as you ignorantly preach is to put oxidation-prone oils in your lipid transport system, and give yourself coenzyme Q10 deficiency with the maximal tolerated HMG-coenzyme A reductase inhibitor. This throws the LDLs at the wall and drives heart disease. Lift, do cardio, then eat red meat, fish, eggs and high-fat milk products. This way all of your phospholipids will be oxidation stable, and your lipoproteins will clear from circulation in the indicated way (if that is indicated by your biology).
Thank you so much for being a pin cushion! I’ve gone off my statin since being low carb and losing 16 lbs. my triglycerides scared the bejesus outta me! I was in 200’s After eating and 400’s in morning. I see my levels slowly going down. This all started because my doctor said I’m pre-diabetic. My FBG is also always higher in morning. However, these numbers are seriously dropping on my low carb and exercise new lifestyle. Just thank you 🙏🏻 😊😁 for any information on triglycerides. I have successfully avoided going on Metformin, but if I cannot get my tryg. Down, I may have to submit to doctor wanting me on statin. I’ve got 3 months til doctor labs! I’ll keep testing at home between now and then. There’s Hope
Update....my triglycerides have gone from 400’s to under 150. It took 60 days eating #LCHF with intermittent fasting. 🥳
Can you let me know ur findings I am in exactly same situation and occasionally taking metformin to stop sugar even tho on keto n eat no sugar or carbs apart from vegetables or odd piece of fruit
yeah can you give specifics on when you got your blood test? fasting time, coffee drinking?
So (dietarily) what is the fastest and most effective way to lower your serum triglycerides?
high fat diet and a 14h fast
So what's your point? You either have dangerously high TG or great TG depending on what time of day you test? What can you do with that?
The point is to fast for at least 12 hours before getting your blood drawn if any lipid testing is going to be done. Sadly, it seems that most doctors' office staff do not tell patients this anymore.
The reference ranges are set to a 12 hour minimum fast as that is how long it takes to clear them from the bloodstream to get to fasting level. I eat a high fat diet, so give it 14 hours.
how did you measure the triglycerides with what machine etc
Cardiocheck plus
Noradrenalone y is producing glucose witch then is transformere to triglyserides. S
Lipid Disaster!! Just got my numbers after 4 months of KetoVore (less than 20 carbs/day) Lost 41 lbs, from 7.7 ->4.5, Insulin 4.38, resistance .87, but lipids HDL 33, non-HDL 332, Trig 208, Calc LDL 290 . I had coffee and cream. 13 from my last big meal. Doctor says thats stroke and heart attack high, wants me back on statins. Help!
What did you do. What are you going to do? I’m kind of in the same boat.
I have tried the carnivore diet for 30 days after already in keto for 2.5 years. after 3 weeks of pure carnivore I went to get a blood work, my TG was 192! double what I had on keto, and the ratio TG/HDL were 3.2 also double then on keto. I had the test 11.5 hours after last meal. could it be that high because I didn't waited another 30 minutes?
Same with me and HDL went down. LDL very high. Only doing keto six weeks.
In Australia recommend 10-12hour test no.longer
It seems you have a Triglyceride rise at your dawn awakening similar to what a Type 2 Diabetic has with blood glucose being elevated when they get up. With Diabetes it is called the Dawn Effect and is a normal thing as your body is giving you glucose (from your liver typically) for energy when you wake up. A healthy person does not have high blood sugars as they respond to their bodies insulin correctly.
I wonder if this is similar ?
Actually also originally known as the "Somogyi effect" - relating to diabetes and hyperglycemia in the AM.
@@jimdandy8996 that's insurin rebound hyperglyc
@@ellenorbjornsdottir1166 Uhh, what?
@@jimdandy8996 The somogyi effect is high blood sugar hypothesised to be a result of low blood sugar
@@ellenorbjornsdottir1166 Yes, I have heard of that.
I was thinking these days, shouldn't people (European, 4-season climate people) go mainly carnivore at winter naturally, resulting in optimal health ?
Instead of year round same diet, because of access, that our genes definitely didn't get used to.
Yeah I was thinking about going carnivore keto in the winter and Eating fruits etc in the summer, to build a little bit of bodyfat for the summer, and getting lots of sun, I think eating only meat at all seasons isn't recreating natural conditions. Eating a lot of meat in the summer also seems less necessary since you have stocked plenty of fat-soluble vitamins and B12, and can get vitamin D in the sun. Also would be smarter in nature to let the animals get fat in summer when vegetation is growing a lot, and eat more plants since more are available for us in summer, and eat the animals in winter after they got more fat and nutrition.
@@Azazaz426 sounds completely sensible to me
@@Azazaz426 Fruit won't increase body fat, just the liver's. In any case, I really don't see why you'd want to gain fat on purpose..
How are you taking all these triglycerides test at home? Device, product, info?
I been carnivore 2 months and just has test. Everything was horrible. Inflammation through the roof. Triglycerides through the roof. Vitamin D less than 30. HDL less than 35. How is this even possible? Been keto before going carnivore
How much sun are you getting. Seems way too little
How did you test your triglycerides at home??
He bought himself a tester. They cost around $600 and work a lot like a glucose meter.
a third meal and so late would destroy my sleep awaking all night long with body heart high!
So Dawn Phenomenon but for fat-based energy instead of glucose?
No. It's fasting time.
(watch the video until the end 🙂)
Yes, makes sense!
So is it something to be concerned about or a phenomenon
Interesting I sleep around same amount...I have trouble falling asleep at 10pm but always get up at 5am....but get around 2/3 deep sleep and 1/3 light according to my cheap Fitbit type watch...I need to get an Oura ring...lol
I also get about the same amount as Dave. I don't really have a problem falling asleep or staying asleep, but 5 or 6 hours is my average. 6.5 is about my limit. Very rarely do I get more than that. Not tired throughout the day either.
michael smith do you ever get days where you feel like sleeping in?
Some times I’ll do a 10-12 hour sleep.
@@qthirteen13 Not really. I retired from the military 11 yrs ago, and for 10 yrs I did not work. Recently went back to work, but it's at night, so I can go to bed whenever I want and get up whenever I want. Despite that, I can't just sleep past that 6.5 point. In fact, when I have slept longer than that in the past, I wake up with a bad headache.
michael smith yeah I can understand that... there is a point where too many hours of sleep actually feel worse...lol
People always say we should sleep according to circadian rhythms and during the night... but sometimes it’s just not possible and as long as I get enough sleep I don’t see much difference day sleep and night sleep usually.
I'm on keto and I fasted for 10hours and my tryglycerides were 247 was also worried. Gonna have to retest after I fast for 13hours
Same..let know if you get any answers as not carbs or sugar for months also my cholesterol thru roof
You two guys found any answers?
@@gregbell9403 I think in order to get a satisfactory lab work results, you have to quit be on keto diet for a few weeks. This May, my TG was 54, HDL 73, LDL 170. I am on keto for about 2 months now. I will definitely switch to regular non keto diet before my next lab work. Because after reading other people’s messages, I know TG and LDL will go extremely high. And if you don’t listen to your doctor and ignore taking Statins, then I am afraid you might be on their bad patient lists and they might refuse to insure you!
Can you do one on just fat diet?