Inside a Hyundai surge protection strip. (With schematic.)
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2016
- Having looked in another surge protection strip I thought it would be worth getting a different brand to compare them.
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The Neutural is a serious issue too, depends which country you live in i know that you can not turn the socket upside down in uk... as you can in sweden so if it is sold in other parts of the world that means that the screw could become live.
Thank you Clive for great videos as always nothing better to get home after a long say at work to look at your updates in your channel
Keep up the great work :)
IMHO seeing screw run through a wire is a very dangerous premonition to the quality control meaning that it could be just as easy been run through the live wire
If you want a more interesting surge protector and filter strip to disassemble, look at the TrippLite IsoBar series, but they are a good deal more expensive (and well worth it for things that really need added protection). They also include inductors to both filter interference between devices as well as to further help limit the current that the surge protection needs to absorb. They are a good deal more interesting to look at than the traditional 3-way MOV variety protector.
Cheers Clive, and thanks for the info. electronics is my hobby and you've been a veritable treasure trove of tips and advice for me. keep up the good work!
Great Video as always Clive. Keep up the great work. Nick.
You're like a scientific/informative version of Ashens. Love your channel!
Clive - might be worth mentioning that for "non-UK users" the QuickTest connector (which you use a lot!) has an internal BS 1362 fuse, so overseas buyers will need to consider buying a few of this style fuse too (or build a thermal trip into the Quick Test power supply, as I've done).
I have no idea what hes talking about 50% of the time, but I fucking love these videos. Thank you Clive :)
My brother came back with a bunch of these a couple of Christmases ago because we were running out of sockets for fairy lights and they were cheap.. same thing, different "brand".. kind of good to know they're not complete deathdapters. Cheers Big C!
I've got a similar power strip to this, from the early 2000's but with the same text and red jagged line - which means it has to work of course! A nice feature of my one is a large neon indicator that's still nice and bright and the light dances from one end to the other on it :)
I'd kind of like to see a noise choke in line with the mains myself. I notice a slight crackling in the mains of my PA system when I use an unfiltered strip. Because of that I put some filter chokes directly on the back of the IEC 3 pin power jacks on the inside of the amps and my mixer. So far I haven't overdriven them as I used fairly high wattage chokes. Mind you my best amp is 2400 watts continuous. It's an older Mackie M series but it's never failed on me and always delivers rock solid sound with very little noise, less since I installed the choke.
Failed neutral thermal fuse will mean the first reasonable spike will trip the RCD device ( mandatory in the UK) and trip the power. then a little fault finding will lead to the strip as being the cause and it will be tossed out ( or in my case will have the surge protection replaced).
Because in other room of your house you can't get electric shocks ?
RCDs are a fundamental protection that must be used everywhere, there are endless possibilities that you can get in contact with live wires, or worse it could be that without an RCD a fault to ground is not detected, because maybe your ground has an high impedance (for example if you have a TT system and not a good ground rod) and thus a fault to ground doesn't trip a MCB for overcurrent, but instead sets all your grounded appliances at live potential.
You can tell it's summer when Clive has a jumper on...
Audio sounds a little muffled but that's not a problem when watching quality content!
Thanks for the excellent upload as usual.
I would enjoy a video of you watching paint dry.
Clive, any chance you could take apart a Belkin-branded one some time? I've got a few I use for my valuable stuff (as many do I imagine, being a popular brand and more expensive than these cheapo ones) but I've always wondered if they're actually doing anything.
Could maybe ship one to him.
I've taken apart one of Belkins biggest surge supressors (as it failed after several year). It had way bigger MOVs, like at least double in size, and more of them, six or eight I remember correctly. It also had a coil and capacitor and the thermal fuses mentioned. But this was the biggest protectors at the time, at maybe €50 (8 sockets).
How dangerous are hard grounds? There have been stories of grad students grounding metal cases of equipment and getting good shocks from the charge build up on the body having a very easy path to ground. Also have you ever taken a lead blood test it would be interesting to see how much electronic work effects it.
would you do a mains (hi-fi) mains conditioner?
The symbol for a thermal fuse is a fuse symbol with a diagonal line going from the upper right corner to the bottom left with a lower case t and degree symbol underneath just to clarify
Hi , I'm a basic DIY home person and I'm bit confused about varistors connection. I wonder if you could help me please.
1-Do I solder it in parallel or in series?
2-What is the description of the fuse?
3-is it better to have 3 or more/less MOV and what is the advantage n disadvantage ?
4- is it practical to have these MOVs before the fuse or after?
5- to make the sockets more secure from surge do I need to add any resistors or capacitors or anything else to it?
6- How do I protect it from spike in the current?
7- can I use it for wall sockets also?
As I live outside UK now, my electronics get damaged every yr inspite having them connected to surge/spike protected extention sockets.
Waiting for ur reply. Thanks
Hey have you ever taken apart Monster Surge Protectors, If you have are they any better then the other brands?
Triangular screws, I used cheap philips type screwdrivers I got as a present, ground it to a triangle. As I dont use them much, the cheap self made job works perfect.
Can a surge protector plugged into a ring main offer some protection throughout the rest of that ring main?
I know they offer some protection to items plugged into the unit but will it help other sockets?
i opened one of these at work to do a PAT test on they had put a screw through the earth severing all but one strand which could have failed at any time , the scary part was this had been done from new , and it had three previous PAT test passes
i enjoy your video's and have often dissected failed electronics to see why they failed, I designed power supplies for a living and like to see how others do it. Like you I'm sometimes appalled at what I find, it's obvious any safety stamps aren't worth the ink on the labels for some of this stuff.
In the US our power is 120v for small loads and 240v for large loads. The street lines are many thousands of volts with a transformer on the pole that steps it down to 120 - 0 -120, the center tap is tied to the neutral bar in the circuit breaker box and that is tied to two ground stakes outside the house. Small loads are fed from one 120v lead and the neutral while large loads are fed from both 120v feeds and no power is drawn from the neutral, there is a safety ground for any exposed metal on the enclosure.
For noise sensitive loads I feed 240v into a transformer that puts out 120v, I find that does a pretty good job of killing any common mode noise because I'm not drawing any power off the neutral connection..
Are all loads in the UK fed from 240 or do you have 480 available for larger loads?
Thanks for sharing!
Please do a tear down of the Belkin Surge Protector, one of the ones with the USB ports to charge your devices! Please!!
I think the symbol for a resistor is just a W shape. Is it different from a thermal resistor?
I would have liked to have seen you send 500-1000V into this with a PAT tester to see how efficiently it clamped the voltage (could be fun to see the results!). Also, I have some APC surge protectors and they're over engineered with MOVs so it would be cool to see a comparison, if you haven't already done one.
so are these surge protected socket things actually worth it? how would you know if you were getting surges anyway and what causes them and what damage would they do?
Worth installing decent rating Surge Arresters across the incoming phase & neutral (to local earth) in your Consumer Box too. DIN top hat fitting ones are available from "Usual Suppliers" with a useful range of clamping voltages. Don't forget Mains Filters in supplies to sensitive electronics too (that includes most "Modern" appliances) - again available from the "Usual Suppliers" ;-D
is it safe to use a extension socket if the surge protection has failed? asking this because i have a old extension socket with surge protection that i think the protection has failed but it still supplies power, the led on the socket had stopped working a while a go but then it started to light up again and it supplies power even if i put the power switch to off.
Just for the faulty switch I'd suggest replacing the unit.
what are the part numbers of the "fuses". if there is no p/n what is the part?
I have a higher end surge suppressor with more than three MOVs in it. It also looks like it has the same entire transient filtering stage that a decent switching power supply would have. Lowe's house brand Utilitech.
Will you do a clip on an RCD at some point? would be curious about how much safe it makes using outdoors tools like mowers and so on.
czcams.com/video/XTUUijDclWk/video.html
I believe that's the same generic surge protector they sell in home bargains without a named brand on it, i'm pleasantly surprised by what's inside for the price :) good video :)
They do not, however they cost less than £5 which isnt too much of a loss if it breaks
And they're very similar inside to the more expensive brands, i expect that cover is all you're paying for with those
If your entire entertainment system is reduced to a pile of ashes they may replace the surge protection socket with a new one.
What I don't understand is why you don't seem to have actual circuit breakers in your power bars over there. Every single one I have seen/bought in Canada has a circuit breaker in it.
By default we have local fuses inside the plugs. So that bar was protected by a 13A fuse.
could you get hold of a do a tear down / inspection of a Hudson surge protected 2 socket extension with 2 usb chargers, please note this a all in one adaptor style one rather than one with a cable, I've just bought one of these to plug my new router into for surge protection & hope it will be of good enough quality & not hazardous in any way, please note I don't intend to use the usb chargers part of it at all, it was just a suitable device I could find at the time to offer two surge protected outlets without having a trailing cable, hope you can help on this
I remember when I was really little we had a set of Christmas lights with that kind of plug. I asked my mom why we couldn't use them. They were really old, and I'm fairly sure my great grandmother brought it from Germany or something.
Hands look red, did you manage to get sun tan Clive or is it just ipad acting out
Different camera struggling with colour temperature of fluorescent lighting.
what type of thermal fuse is in the protection circuit? i want to make my own surge protector, thanks
Usually just standard thermal fuses between the metal oxide varistors.
Would you be willing to tear down IKEA's surge protect power strips? I use them all about the house and I am interested as to how safe they are.
I got 1 of these from pound stretchers the other week :)
sleeves? colder than usual?
I have a small 30cc boat engine with a fan, I would like it to automatically turn on over 150 degrees F. what component would I use to make this. Like a heat sensitive switch???
You can get thermal switches designed to turn on at various ratings... Ebay item 321733923890 would do your job (choose the 65C oone, that's 149F).
do a video of you getting extremely drunk and trying to reverse engineer electronics. i'd watch that
What that from B&M by any chance?
I'm curious to what's inside my JoJo one. It's got no lights, but interestingly, it has information of the bottom to say that it will fail a PAT on high voltage test, but this is not a fault.
The PAT failure is because the standard 500V test will cause the protective devices to conduct and give the impression of failed insulation.
bigclivedotcom Thanks for the info
I yard sale'd a small single-outlet protector rated for 400v L/N with a neon and the foreboding warning "Replace when neon goes out". GE brand.
I also have a similar small three-outlet protector with Surge and Ground LEDs, and actual L/N, N/G, L/G protection, though it "only" protects to 500v and has the equally foreboding warning "Unit still maintains power to the load while the surge function is discontinued". No branding, but has a UL label on it.
(I'm from the US where we use 120v mains service, so 500v is pretty generous...)
Semi-relatedly, what would you recommend to use on the output of a small, conventional (non-inverter) portable generator to protect more sensitive equipment from spikes and surges? Right now I use that single-outlet protector.
The surge protect units use a thermal fuse to detect when the suppression component is failing. When the neon goes out it means the unit needs replaced as it has done its job either suppressing lots of small spikes for a long time or a single big lightning transient. One of these units should be fine for the output of your generator.
If you want to destructively open a socket strip that has rivets, get a pry bar under an edge, then heat the rivets with a soldering iron.
Though i guess you could replace the rivets with slightly larger screws if you wanted to put it back together ;)
Wouldn't drilling the rivets out be easier?
yup
I've tried that, the rivets are domed usually, not as easy as heating imo
Poundland screwdriver?
Press rivets: drill a (small) hole and drive a woodscrew through it, the rivet will come up.
I didn't get how the surge protection worked, though :-D
i'm guessing this is not made by the car manufacturer
I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that they were both parts of the same large parent corporation, though. It seems that a lot of large asian companies tend to do this.
Why do companies use those neon indicators anymore when leds are so much simpler and must be cheaper. and is it really neon or is there a blob of mercury in the phosphor ones?
It's usually just another noble gas used for its small amount of UV for phosphor stimulation,
How effective is a surge protector like that at protecting from lightning strikes? I still take my computer and tv and such out whenever Thor passes by.
Honestly its not effective at stopping a close proximity strike. What it saves you from is a strike thats not close, or a stuff up by the power company that will not cause your devices to explode imminently, but over many iterations will manifest as "electrical derangement", something thats fairly common in and basically never covered by insurance.
Hamish McGregor john carlaw thanks for the info! more or less as I figured, hen. I'll keep doing what I do, then. thank you.
The surge protector neon on my Belkin power strip has finally gone out. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get that particular power strip?
BM Homestores in the UK.
bigclivedotcom Thanks! Luckily I have one of those pretty close to me.
It's well worth contacting Belkin. With the last three that failed, I called Belkin and they replaced it free of charge and covered collecting the failed power strip. The first two failed after thunderstorms while the third we noticed the light was out one day. Interestingly when we had a nasty surge a while back (blew our chest freezer, a mobile phone and microwave, all plugged in without surge protection), the surge protected power strips for our TV and computer both survived with their protected neons still lit. Then again, we did wonder whether that surge would have wrecked the TV, set-top boxes, computer, etc. had they not been on surge protected strips.
Seán Byrne Are you in the UK? I've only heard of the replacement programme in the US.
Yes. But note that they had just one Hyundai unit with the others as yet unexplored as they were riveted shut.
I thought NE-2 were always orange in glow?
There is a SPU (surge protection unit) my the entertainment system and when a new load is put on ot, it buzzes at aussimgly 110 VAC 60Hz.
It may have an inductor inside as part of the filtering.
+bigclivedotcom Hmm... It was loud.
Like BIG buzz
I hear you're using your new microphone-cap. It's sounds smooth... dare I say? sensual?
Uh-oh. I'm using the older microphone clipped onto the hat brim again.
bigclivedotcom Ohh... Oh no. This is the end of my youtube commenting days forever.
+bigclivedotcom I really do prefer the old one, as much as I like watching and listening to your experiments with alternatives. This strikes me as more "crisp".
Don't worry goyabee, I've allways thought Clive's voice is very sensual - it kind of carresses your senses.........
Will it stop this blue spark that cracks every time I plug in my laptop charger?
No. That's the inrush current to the chargers capacitor.
You should buy a proper laptop charger. Is it an Acer laptop?
I have seen this spark happen in Acer, HP and Asus laptop chargers. A bit scary but nothing seems to stop working...
It's normal, doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the charger.
Acer is the shiniest piece of turd on pc stuff that i've ever owned...
thanks
Even if the green light was on with nothing plugged in, it's not going to power anything with a blown fuse and the light may go out as soon as you plug a load in anyway.
The load doesn't go through these fuses. This setup is connected in parallel with the socket rails.
Said thermal fuses are for the surge protection module only. The sockets will still work regardless of the fuses being in tact or not
Ok, I didn't fully understand the diagram.
More than a little bit sloppy, in the portable appliance world (fixed wiring is a different ballgame) the neutral conductor needs to be treated as potentially live.
can you tell me that if I use Circuit Breaker in place of Metal Oxide Varistor. will it Surge protect devices?
+T Chowdhury U A circuit breaker doesn't really offer any protection other than for sustained over current.
T Chowdhury No, definitely not. Circuit breakers are far too slow.
+T Chowdhury: If you want to live, don't fiddle with electricity.
@@bigclivedotcom can you any online link where i can purchase these sort of module for surge protection (Metal Oxide Varistor)? I wanna build my own power strip :)
Well, even if it "theoretically" was only the neutral wire, how could you be sure that your electrician wired up your house correctly?
You can't, but if you are sensible you only use Corgi registered electricians, and screwing up for them could be career-ending which makes me fairly confident.
It would seem like you have missed the Hyundai car ad about how to properly pronounce Hyundai. It's like Sunday, only with an H.
That's the way I've usually heard it pronounced, never heard it the way he says it here. I rather like it though.
Buy Panamax brand Surge protectors. They are by far the best one on the market.
Given that here Panamax is a brand of the pain reliever paracetamol, it wouldn't really instill confidence.
Thermal Ions I did not know that. All i know is Panamax makes great surge protectors and there warranty policy and customer service is outstanding.
Edit: I just looked it up, you are thinking of Panadol which is a brand of Acetaminophen.
Panadol, Panamax and Tylenol are all brands of paracetamol.
I should probably change my surge protectors, I thought the green neon failing was just poor build quality and ignored it...
Even if it is just poor build quality, you should replace them. I mean, if they bodged up the neon, what else did they bodge up?
Sir, you just assume it's poor build quality and go on? Like.. what? if it's poor build quality I would thow it out immediately, who knows when it may explode, especially when you connect your valuable electronics to it. lol.
That one sucks. It's not going to protect anything once a MOV blows. Would be much better if the load was on the other side of the fuses.
I have just noticed… There's NEUTRAL and LIVE. You add C to LIVE and you get CLIVE!
Or reverse it and get Evil-C.
If C is evil (and I don't doubt that it is) is C++ "extra naughty" ?
Here I thought surge protection was what the castle moat was?
Strangely enough I'll be working in a real castle moat for the next few weeks.
+bigclivedotcom that'll get all your fingers wrinkly :)
Serge Protection? Didn't he record Je t'aime?
No, that was Surge Forward.
jeey more electronics :)
I dont know crap about AC electronics but why cant they put one (thermal?) fuse on the ground rather than on live and on neutral.... or at least add a third to the ground that trips before live or neutral? I dont know what I'm talking about
Confirmed.
No kidding you don't know what you're talking about. That arrangement with one fuse would allow the varistors to heat up indefinitely.
The quality isn't very good but thanks for showing me.
Decent, but I wouldn't have put two fuses in it. The neutral fuse needs to go and be replaced by a jumper.
The neutral fuse would come into play to protect against fire and overheating in the event of reversed polarity (it happens, even on 'professionally' installed sockets sometimes).
Also the same surge protection pcb may be used in areas with Schuko plugs, with no polarization
You really should have a cordless power screwdriver, you'll get carpel tunnel for sure.. Please do it.
I keep the cordless driver for work when I'm doing a lot of screws.
If it really matters all that much, the symbol for a thermal fuse, abd a lot of similar stuff, is here.
www.electronic-symbols.com/electric-electronic-symbols/fuse-protection-symbols.htm
It looks as though it could get confusing,
Grear video as always Clive, what's with the audio?! It's horrible!!
Different location and microphone. Just temporary while I travel with work.
Its not too bad, Doesn't make it any less informative than usual.
Thanks for another great tear- down!
I'm never buying a power strip again. My old ones have breakers that can be reset.
Ooooh, shit. Sorry Clive, had to pause at 8 seconds. That's Hyundai, pronounced to rhyme with Sunday..ok, carry on now!
Hyundai, Tuesday, Happy Days! Wednesday, Samsung, Happy Days! Hitaaaaachi! Mitsoooooobishi! Dun dun dun dun dun! Ahhh, Ron Howard looks like a goblin now.
I've just replaced a Schneider surge module (PDL 600SM - www.pdl.co.nz/product-details.aspx?rcat=products&catid=805&id=2059 ) and there are no fuses inside it, just hair thin pcb traces from the L & N into the MOV array. I'm a bit disappointed because I have always believed that Schneider made good products.
Also has an indicator led (blown), 330k resistor (open cct), and an IN4007 to keep the led from chewing the reverse voltage.
3x MOV = www.digikey.co.nz/product-detail/en/epcos-tdk/S20K275/495-1417-ND/593851
making earth contact to neutral can blow an RCD
It's funny seeing the Hyundai name on things in the cheap shops, I've had Hyundai batteries, extensions, torches, bulbs, and other things, but they also have their name on cheap deep-fat fryers, perma-recall vacuum cleaners (dunno what's wrong with 'em but they always seem to be getting recalled!), and plenty other things... :P
Whatever happened to just making cheap crap cars? :P
Until 3:30 I was wondering what inside electrical/bigclive joke "heliodatik" referred to. In my defense I had just watched clive's cyberpussy and absolution video.
First comment from the toilet. Oh yeah.
Did you have a really fucking big shit?
It's the perfect time to watch youtube videos, Sometimes it feels like my spine will come flying out with it lol.
I do it all the time. sit on the toilet backwards and I have a nice table for my nachos and beer.
+stevej420 you sir, you are genius
you can pretty much ignore the h in "hyundai". "hyu" is pronounced as one syllable
Hyundai accept both the American and British way of pronouncing their company name, since "they've always said it like that". Which is what their PR team said. Neither the US nor British pronounce it "properly", e.g like they pronounce it in Korea.
Think you might have screwed the 5 year warranty ...
audio hurts
I feel stupid for not realizing sooner that mains voltage is listed as an RMS voltage.
RMS Root Mean Square. All good knowledge to add to your skills.
bigclivedotcom Yes, I wasn't sure if it was peak-to-peak or Root Mean Square. That's something they didn't teach us in my electrical engineering class, for some reason.
Peak to peak would be awesome. "I'm plugging this into 680 volts..."
***** I'll remember to say that if I ever go to plug something in to 480 volts ac.
480 RMS would be 1360 Peak to peak (680 peak, but the peak to peak is double that ;) )... think 'pmpo for volts'
I wonder if Hyundai KNOWS that they made this. >_>
I found an old extension socket that cracked when I put a plug in, it was supposedly CE approved (must have degraded with time) but it crumbled like this...
czcams.com/video/F1YKxZevMtc/video.html
Why do you not reply to my comments ? .
Jeez, and I thought their cars were bad!
Take the money from patreon fund for power screwdriver and do video on it..
Definitely wouldn't buy a product from a company that has schematics that look like that 🤦♂️🤷♂️🤣
As far as I'm concerned, AC is AC; "live" and "neutral" are the same thing at opposite times. :[
Well, no. Live is referenced to neutral (and earth) and fluctuates between positive and negative voltage. Neutral referenced to earth has constant zero voltage.
think of it as a grounded centre tapped transformer 240 ac turns into -110v 0v grnd 110v
Sirus
Lol no, AC does not work like that. 230v live line referenced to neutral rides a sinusoidal wave that goes from 0 to +~320 volts and back to 0, then to -~320v and back to zero, giving a Root Mean Square voltage of 230 volts AC.
Your centre tapped analogy would require three lines, which the normal single phase AC connection does not provide.
***** yup your right , we take a phase out of the 3 phase, im thinking of 110 building site transformers
Hyundai rhymes with Sunday.
All fuses are thermal lol
come pay day I'm going shopping with £20 and see how much electronic tat I can get ;-)
Go to pound shop and you will get 20 tats :-)
Would products at "the Pound Store" have a negative VAT ?
If so then you could probably get 30 tats ;-)
Is this really made by Hyundai? I mean, it seems unlikely...
Maybe not this product specifically but why are you surprised by Hyundai making something like this? Hyundai is not just a car company.
+SnoutBaron nothing specific about Hyundai, it's just the lack of a logo on the thing itself. Often a company will buy generic stuff and slap a brand name in it, like "Phillips" laptops from PC World etc.
kuro68000 Oh right.
Well hyaundi made vibrators, so a surge protector isnt too far off
Are you thinking of the Hitachi "magic wand"?
lol high-un-dye?? its pronounced hun-day big clive!!!
When the first Hyundai dealership opened locally many years ago a friend's other half commented on it being a large launderette.Turned out they were reading it as Hy-un-dri.
Indeed, official pronunciation varies worldwide in their own advertising . Same with daewoo
+Retrostevie Gaming yes I'm American lol I drive a 2013 KIA Forte ex.. I get calls from Hyundai CAP AM all the time trying to get me to pay more money on my bill and they pronounce it hun-day LOL
+dannyfrickenboy The USA and UK both technically pronounce it wrong, but Hyundai accept both pronunciations since it's something both countries have always done. Neither the US nor UK pronounce it like Korea do, which sounds like "Hyoon-Day"